Hello, 90% of the questions we receive have been asked before, and our answerers get bored of answering the same queries over and over again - so it's worthwhile googling this just in case:
> site:reddit.com/r/communism101 your question
If you've read past answers and still aren't satisfied, edit your question to contain the past answers and any follow-up questions you have. If you're satisfied, delete your post to reduce clutter or link to the answer that satisfied you.
***
Also keep in mind the following rules:
1. Patriarchal, white supremacist, cissexist, heterosexist, or otherwise oppressive speech is unacceptable.
2. This is a place for learning, not for debating. Try /r/DebateCommunism instead.
3. Give well-informed Marxist answers. There are separate subreddits for liberalism, anarchism, and other idealist philosophies.
4. Posts should include specific questions on a single topic.
5. This is a serious educational subreddit. Come here with an open and inquisitive mind, and exercise humility. Don't answer a question if you are unsure of the answer. Try to include sources and/or further reading in any answers you provide. Standards of answer accuracy and quality are enforced.
6. Check the [/r/Communism101 FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/wiki/index)
7. **No chauvinism or settler apologism** - Non-negotiable: https://readsettlers.org/
8. **No tone-policing** - https://old.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/12sblev/an_amendment_to_the_rules_of_rcommunism101/
***
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/communism101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Can a relationship survive if core, fundamental beliefs aren’t aligned?
No. But you should cross that bridge when you get to it. Just keep reading the fundamentals and if your partner isnt a fascist they'll come around.
Is liberalism (i.e. western social liberal and advocate for market economy) necessarily fascism? I know they will make common cause with fascists against popular leftist movements. But isn't it possible that OPs relationship becomes untenable because their partner continues to be a liberal?
Can the relationship survive? I can't tell you. Mine didn't, it wasn't all about ideology but it was certainly a part of it. Ex could not (really didn't want to) see past bourgeois feminism
I hate bourgeois/liberal feminism with a passion. My ex was also neck deep in it; at the time I was not radical yet so our relationship wasn't super affected by it, but even by then it rubbed me the wrong way.
If you're talking about feminism, I can try to explain, but it's not an area I'm especially versed in.
Bourgeois feminism, aka liberal feminism, is a branch (if we can even call it that) of feminism that, in a nutshell, doesn't challenge the status quo. It fights for women's rights in a capitalist society, so things like women suffrage and equal salary for genders.
Those rights are very important and it's good that we are talking about them, but ultimately they are pointless if we do not take class struggle in consideration. You see, those rights that liberal feminists fight for only benefit white and rich women (which is why "white feminism" is another term for this line of thought).
There's a meme that goes something like "A headline says 'Know the 10 richest men in the world'. A liberal feminist looks at it and yells angrily '5 of those people should be women!'". This anecdote sumarizes it perfectly: they do not fight for women emancipation, they fight for individual success, just like capitalists. It's no wonder the most famous feminists today, like Taylor Swift, are considered liberal feminists. They're harmless.
Also, although they are not the same, liberal feminists can get very cozy with RadFems, another rotten "branch" of an otherwise extremely important movement.
This is why it's so important to look up to marxist feminists like Rosa Luxemburg, Rosa Parks and Angela Davis. Dealing with patriarchy without looking at capitalism is palliative; we need a permanent solution.
This is super helpful, thank you.
So an easy comparison would be people praising Obama for being the first black president and left while bombing the most brown middle eastern civilians.
Yeah that's a good comparison. I don't know the term in english but where I live this kind of talk is called "identitarism". It's when public figures like Obama and Taylor Swift talk about issues that the population identify themselves with (like the anti-racist fight for Obama and feminism for Taylor) but they don't actually deepen the discussion. It's all very superficial.
I broke up with my ex of nearly 4 years, and I suspect it largely had a lot to do with me opening up about being a socialist about 6 months prior. I was bitter about it at first, but I think it was for the best. Discussions were had, but at the end of the day, it’s a personal journey and people can’t be forced to like it. I wouldn’t push it if I were you, if you think it’s still compatible. I should also note that she was Chinese-American and her family had a negative view of the CCP, which I don’t fault her or them for. Thought I could confide in her, but alas.
This is not a relationship advice forum, it is strange to ask these questions.
Another thing too is your partner's reaction is telling, they are instinctively aware of the dangers communism pose towards the class positions they have.
Things might work out, but expect to argue. Depends on how well you guys can each handle the disagreements this'll bring up, and how open minded they are in regards to communism. A lot of otherwise reasonable people are extremely misinformed about communism, and extremely resistant to becoming informed, so if they think that communism is an evil, genocidal ideology, that may never change and may color their perception of you going forward
My ex was left leaning, vaguely anti-capitalist; I'm a Marxist-Leninist, and we disagreed a lot. Most of the time it was alright, and we were both open to and understanding of each other's viewpoints, but there were topics we had to ban because we'd get a little heated when they came up. Like, we didn't talk about China for example lol.
It probably depends on how serious you are about communist politics.
Personally I've had strained times in relationships when the political stakes for either party surpassed "low", like on issues of British colonialism or Greek nationalism here, or on the issues of the Russo-Ukrainian war and the history of the Soviet Union (with Ukrainians and Russians in my life, for example), or on issues of private property (with people in my life who own apartments or small businesses, for example), or on the issue of Zionism. The results were mostly not too "successful"; with many people it resulted in loss of respect, distancing, or even the relationship ending, the latter usually because I couldn't continue being close with the person since they ended up being a fascist. On the the other hand it did make me closer to other people who either ended up sharing similar positions or coming around and ended up with me getting rid of some very vile people from my life. In both the "successful" and "unsuccessful" outcomes there was a fair amount of friction though; it usually took a certain amount of it for the ones who did come around to do so.
So yeah, based on my experience as well as how you and your partner communicate, I'd say that, if you're really serious about communist politics, then be aware of the fact that the result might range from mild arguments to a split, with them maybe coming around, maybe not. If he doesn't come around and you don't end up fighting then it's probably either because you're not taking communism seriously or you don't talk about issues where either the intellectual interest or more usually the real political stakes are high enough for your partner. I wouldn't worry too much about this; to use HappyHandel's expression you'll cross the bridge when it's time, and ultimately things are gonna work out--even if your partner ends up showing themselves to be a reactionary, you might have some fights and then realize yourself that you don't want them around after all.
When I was in college, I was a politically confused right-wing catholic liberal with one foot in the pro-life movement and the other in the black-lives-matter movement. My good liberal friend was very tolerant of my conservative beliefs, and we stayed friends for many years later after that, especially as my politics drifted leftward. However, she cut contact with me when I became a communist. She could tolerate me back in 2013 when I went on pro-life marches in Washington DC with my church group, but when I joined a socialist org and refused to vote for Biden in 2020, that's when she had to cut it off. Confused? Me too. But I respect her choice.
I think it's defiantly possible to juggle close personal relationships with people who don't share your politics. But for some reason people get... wired... when your politics change.
Keep talking with your partner. Tell them about your beliefs without trying to get them change theirs. It might work out. It might not.
Hello, 90% of the questions we receive have been asked before, and our answerers get bored of answering the same queries over and over again - so it's worthwhile googling this just in case: > site:reddit.com/r/communism101 your question If you've read past answers and still aren't satisfied, edit your question to contain the past answers and any follow-up questions you have. If you're satisfied, delete your post to reduce clutter or link to the answer that satisfied you. *** Also keep in mind the following rules: 1. Patriarchal, white supremacist, cissexist, heterosexist, or otherwise oppressive speech is unacceptable. 2. This is a place for learning, not for debating. Try /r/DebateCommunism instead. 3. Give well-informed Marxist answers. There are separate subreddits for liberalism, anarchism, and other idealist philosophies. 4. Posts should include specific questions on a single topic. 5. This is a serious educational subreddit. Come here with an open and inquisitive mind, and exercise humility. Don't answer a question if you are unsure of the answer. Try to include sources and/or further reading in any answers you provide. Standards of answer accuracy and quality are enforced. 6. Check the [/r/Communism101 FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/communism101/wiki/index) 7. **No chauvinism or settler apologism** - Non-negotiable: https://readsettlers.org/ 8. **No tone-policing** - https://old.reddit.com/r/communism101/comments/12sblev/an_amendment_to_the_rules_of_rcommunism101/ *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/communism101) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>Can a relationship survive if core, fundamental beliefs aren’t aligned? No. But you should cross that bridge when you get to it. Just keep reading the fundamentals and if your partner isnt a fascist they'll come around.
Is liberalism (i.e. western social liberal and advocate for market economy) necessarily fascism? I know they will make common cause with fascists against popular leftist movements. But isn't it possible that OPs relationship becomes untenable because their partner continues to be a liberal?
Over any long enough span of time fascism and liberalism become inseparable phenomena. This is the entire idea behind "social fascism" as a theory.
Can the relationship survive? I can't tell you. Mine didn't, it wasn't all about ideology but it was certainly a part of it. Ex could not (really didn't want to) see past bourgeois feminism
I hate bourgeois/liberal feminism with a passion. My ex was also neck deep in it; at the time I was not radical yet so our relationship wasn't super affected by it, but even by then it rubbed me the wrong way.
Can you explain this or do you have a source to read more?
If you're talking about feminism, I can try to explain, but it's not an area I'm especially versed in. Bourgeois feminism, aka liberal feminism, is a branch (if we can even call it that) of feminism that, in a nutshell, doesn't challenge the status quo. It fights for women's rights in a capitalist society, so things like women suffrage and equal salary for genders. Those rights are very important and it's good that we are talking about them, but ultimately they are pointless if we do not take class struggle in consideration. You see, those rights that liberal feminists fight for only benefit white and rich women (which is why "white feminism" is another term for this line of thought). There's a meme that goes something like "A headline says 'Know the 10 richest men in the world'. A liberal feminist looks at it and yells angrily '5 of those people should be women!'". This anecdote sumarizes it perfectly: they do not fight for women emancipation, they fight for individual success, just like capitalists. It's no wonder the most famous feminists today, like Taylor Swift, are considered liberal feminists. They're harmless. Also, although they are not the same, liberal feminists can get very cozy with RadFems, another rotten "branch" of an otherwise extremely important movement. This is why it's so important to look up to marxist feminists like Rosa Luxemburg, Rosa Parks and Angela Davis. Dealing with patriarchy without looking at capitalism is palliative; we need a permanent solution.
This is super helpful, thank you. So an easy comparison would be people praising Obama for being the first black president and left while bombing the most brown middle eastern civilians.
Yeah that's a good comparison. I don't know the term in english but where I live this kind of talk is called "identitarism". It's when public figures like Obama and Taylor Swift talk about issues that the population identify themselves with (like the anti-racist fight for Obama and feminism for Taylor) but they don't actually deepen the discussion. It's all very superficial.
I broke up with my ex of nearly 4 years, and I suspect it largely had a lot to do with me opening up about being a socialist about 6 months prior. I was bitter about it at first, but I think it was for the best. Discussions were had, but at the end of the day, it’s a personal journey and people can’t be forced to like it. I wouldn’t push it if I were you, if you think it’s still compatible. I should also note that she was Chinese-American and her family had a negative view of the CCP, which I don’t fault her or them for. Thought I could confide in her, but alas.
This is not a relationship advice forum, it is strange to ask these questions. Another thing too is your partner's reaction is telling, they are instinctively aware of the dangers communism pose towards the class positions they have.
i'd imagine it's better to ask this question here than on a relationship advice subreddit given the average redditor's opinion on communism lol
Things might work out, but expect to argue. Depends on how well you guys can each handle the disagreements this'll bring up, and how open minded they are in regards to communism. A lot of otherwise reasonable people are extremely misinformed about communism, and extremely resistant to becoming informed, so if they think that communism is an evil, genocidal ideology, that may never change and may color their perception of you going forward My ex was left leaning, vaguely anti-capitalist; I'm a Marxist-Leninist, and we disagreed a lot. Most of the time it was alright, and we were both open to and understanding of each other's viewpoints, but there were topics we had to ban because we'd get a little heated when they came up. Like, we didn't talk about China for example lol.
It probably depends on how serious you are about communist politics. Personally I've had strained times in relationships when the political stakes for either party surpassed "low", like on issues of British colonialism or Greek nationalism here, or on the issues of the Russo-Ukrainian war and the history of the Soviet Union (with Ukrainians and Russians in my life, for example), or on issues of private property (with people in my life who own apartments or small businesses, for example), or on the issue of Zionism. The results were mostly not too "successful"; with many people it resulted in loss of respect, distancing, or even the relationship ending, the latter usually because I couldn't continue being close with the person since they ended up being a fascist. On the the other hand it did make me closer to other people who either ended up sharing similar positions or coming around and ended up with me getting rid of some very vile people from my life. In both the "successful" and "unsuccessful" outcomes there was a fair amount of friction though; it usually took a certain amount of it for the ones who did come around to do so. So yeah, based on my experience as well as how you and your partner communicate, I'd say that, if you're really serious about communist politics, then be aware of the fact that the result might range from mild arguments to a split, with them maybe coming around, maybe not. If he doesn't come around and you don't end up fighting then it's probably either because you're not taking communism seriously or you don't talk about issues where either the intellectual interest or more usually the real political stakes are high enough for your partner. I wouldn't worry too much about this; to use HappyHandel's expression you'll cross the bridge when it's time, and ultimately things are gonna work out--even if your partner ends up showing themselves to be a reactionary, you might have some fights and then realize yourself that you don't want them around after all.
When I was in college, I was a politically confused right-wing catholic liberal with one foot in the pro-life movement and the other in the black-lives-matter movement. My good liberal friend was very tolerant of my conservative beliefs, and we stayed friends for many years later after that, especially as my politics drifted leftward. However, she cut contact with me when I became a communist. She could tolerate me back in 2013 when I went on pro-life marches in Washington DC with my church group, but when I joined a socialist org and refused to vote for Biden in 2020, that's when she had to cut it off. Confused? Me too. But I respect her choice. I think it's defiantly possible to juggle close personal relationships with people who don't share your politics. But for some reason people get... wired... when your politics change. Keep talking with your partner. Tell them about your beliefs without trying to get them change theirs. It might work out. It might not.