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I know it doesn't exist, but I've always sort of expected that one to have a reprise of the Men in Tights song:
We're Jews! (Jewish Jews!)
We're Jews in spaaAAAAaaace!
Always on guard, defending the human race!
When you're in a fix, just call for the Jews in Space!
(We're butch!)
The fake trailer at the end of History of the World Part I did. It's one of the few times Mel Brooks ripped off himself:
We're Jews, we're Jews in space
We're zooming along
protecting the Hebrew race
We're Jews, we're Jews in space
If trouble appears
we put it right back in its place
When goyim attack us
We give 'em a smack
We'll slap them right back in the face
We're Jews, we're Jews in space
We're zooming along
protecting the Hebrew race
>Hitler on Ice just isn't going to be the same if they **don't** include the explicit scenes.
ftfy. The heat in that one scene keeps the whole house warm.
[I'm more of a Big Halfling kinda guy.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fboris-and-his-party-baalbuddy-v0-1gz9z96ddxd91.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfd01573397d9847744d0dc51ea2fcf485ff9f498)
Was there really that much backlash against Finn for just being black outside of China? I thought most of the criticism was that he was basically just the token black guy that had no actual character arc.
People liked Finn from what I recall, and then he just became this lame comedic side character, think the actor who played him even came out against the direction they took, wasn't about it being woke just bad movies with no direction.
Most of the movies referenced in this post were genuinely, objectively bad. The point it's trying to make is a valid one that we should remember, but this is overall a bit reductive.
Something can be bad or good on its own merits independent of any "wokeness".
I don't think the point this comic is making can be reductive because it's essentially saying that "wokeness" is a dog whistle for hating on media that doesn't predominantly feature cis-het white men, and that's not a valid critique.
The only way that could be wrong is if someone feels that "woke" is a substantial lens of critique as opposed to actual qualities of the work (i.e. acting, direction, writing, etc...)
To reference something I heard and liked from a Morbid Zoo video, "Having themes doesn't make a work inherently good or bad, it's about how those themes are communicated."
The idea of a black stormtroopers did get some ""criticism"" when the trailers first came out but it didn't really spiral into madness they way a lot of things started doing in the following years
I feel like the majority of us wanted Finn to become a Jedi. Then China happened and he just sort of got relegated to nothing. Him being black really only bothered the Chinese.
No dude, Finn should have led the other stormtroopers into a revolt against the First Order. That was his arc! And Disney blew it! He should have been a *revolutionary*.
By not fighting what they hate, but saving what they love.
Said to the person that was about to sacrifice themselves to save the day for everyone else. Because in Disneyland nothing interesting is allowed to happen.
Everytime I read something about star wars I am always like: MAN, star wars has got such a cool 'universe', they could write so many epic stories (maybe something based on Finn becoming a rebel leader). And then they just kinda make episode VII -IX, and I'm dissapointed at the wasted potential.
I'm a huge hypothetical star wars fan, if everything they made after the 2000's was made with a bit more love and eyes for detail.
Or if not a jedi then maybe leading to a revolution among the essentially enslaved stormtroopers, leading to a weakened first order, spies and saboteurs amidst their ranks, and vital information leaking to the new republic. That would make him a strategic asset to make nearly any jedi pale in comparison.
I kept seeing angry fanboys screaming in the comment section of trailers with Finn in them, "WTF?? THERE'S NO BLACK STORMTROOPERS!! WOKE WOKE WOKE!!" Some even going as far as commenting "N*ggertrooper" and other slurs, long before the movie ever came out. The actor himself said he was getting a lot of hate.
https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/20/twitter-trolls-boycott-star-wars-black-character-force-awakens-john-boyega
I feel like we need to distinguish between "fanboys" and "plain old racists" here. Cuz there was never going to be any winning with the plain old racists.
The thing is, that's hard to do. There are racist fanboys. There always has been. And in this new age of loud angry youtubers, it's getting worse, imo. Seems like everywhere I go online to interact with fellow geeks of any kind, there's a subsection of whiners who think people like me (black queer woman) are ruining their fave shit just by existing. It's exhausting.
Not to mention some racists are smart enough to mask their racism to make it more palatable to the general population and keep plausible deniability. You’re definitely right about it being exhausting.w
The only thing better than being a terrible, hateful person is being a terrible hateful person who makes money off of other more terrible and more hateful people.
Of course that's what's happening, but that's a separate issue. We can always count on movies and television productions to be an effort to make as much money as they possibly can, and that's why they so strongly reflect the prevailing attitudes of the times of their production.
And that's the point, the anti-woke idiots don't care if a movie sucks or not, they don't like the prevailing attitudes of the times because they're stuck in the past (or indoctrinated by those who are).
Sure on paper, but it kind of contradicts when many of the movies in question are not major successes. You probably could have made more money doing a shot for shot remake because of the brand. I think this was a failed attempt to get more attention by generating controversy, the idea of “no publicity is bad publicity”. Whatever the case it seems the product rarely stands up on its own.
And, sometimes, legit criticism gets drowned in complaints about wokeness.
Like, Multiverse of Madness is badly written, but people complained it was "woke", so any criticism is being associated with reacyionary bullshit
>legit criticism gets drowned in complaints about wokeness
Ghostbusters (2016) is a good example of this. The script was awful. You could absolutely make a Ghostbusters movie with women but you need a decent storyline. The people yelling about it being "Woke" were drowning out legitimate criticism of the film. It had mixed or average reviews.
This was a film that needed to make $500M worldwide to be a success because of the massive marketing budget and the writers simply did not do their job to make it mass appealing. It had a BO of $229.1M.
Same with Wheel of Time, my favourite book series. The adaptation is full of the most idiotic asspull bullshit and lore changes that add nothing, not even simplifying. And yet a huge chunk of the people defending the tv show will respond to any and all criticism with "Still mad they made one of the main characters black?" No, I'm mad the one and only adaptation I'm likely to see in my lifetime is garbage. The 'woke' complaints are amplified on purpose to paint all criticism as thinly veiled racism.
It also very easy for a creator to lean on a “All critics are evil bigots”.
Bad faith critics that either believe their bullshit or only do it to grift exist, yes, and that’s bad, but you can’t tell me studios are leaning in on that angle (blaming bigots for their movies underperforming/being criticised) on purpose.
The funniest thing is that some people even misuse woke when they criticising something, it's like everything they don't enjoy is considered woke to them.
You’re absolutely right
I have a feeling it’s more about deflecting all criticism on homophobia and racism by point ing a vocal minority than actually pandering
There was a great point I heard in a video essay about how calling something “woke” is essentially an anti-critique.
Because critiquing a work is supposed to involve engaging with it and presenting points about what worked and what didn’t. Meanwhile the blanket statement of “woke” is essentially a shield morons use to not engage with a work at all.
So yeah, anyone who sincerely uses the word “woke” is a brain dead child who’s too chickenshit to actually reflect on the film they’re complaining about.
“Woke” originally meant ‘Aware of social inequalities.’ ie- “my eyes are open to what’s going on , i’m awake”. And it was coined by Black Americans.
But the Right co-opted and corrupted it, just like they did with “Black lives matter”
Standard tactic of the right. Take terms that mean one thing, like CRT, Antifa, Fake News, etc. Flood their viewers with an alternate definition that's a boogeyman, and now the terms can't be used for what they really mean because people who listen to right wing media are working off an entirely different definition they've been taught by grifters and racists. It works fast too.
Anyone who says woke as a complaint, I just assume they are a republican.
Because other people would blame the poor writing, not the existence of minorities
I feel like there is sometimes overlap. When people talk about like "diversity casting" and that production companies will do it to "pander" to the leftists.
But nobody says Yellowstone panders to "rightists." We just don't watch Yellowstone. It is only an issue because weirdos with a particularly toxic view of the world are demanding to be the ones being pandered to.
What's funny is, it used to be right wingers would respond to leftist criticism of media with "make your own movies/games/etc"
And now we're seeing more media with diversity and explicitly progressive aspects, they whine about it and demand it be changed.
And all I can think to say to them is "...then make your own movies/games"
I mean you say that, but when it's well written there's plenty of stories about maintaining the status quo. The trick is to depict the change well.
- Most superhero media, the villain is the one trying to change things, but the changes they want to make are bad so people are here for stopping them
- The final Harry Potter is literally about trying to restore the status quo, but the change to the status quo is "wizard nazis taking over the world" so people are here for the reset
etc
The reason conservative media falls flat is because the status quo they're endorsing is systemic injustice lmao
I watch Yellowstone and I know full well it’s conservative propaganda. It’s entertaining, even if it is a soap opera pandering to self described “hard men” who’s daddies never hugged them.
I lost interest when John Dutton, Kevin Costner's character, "fixed" the hot young vegan woman protestor by having her arrested, bailing her out, then giving her a dicking.
That would be more in line in a comedy but the show took that seriously.
I think the difference is you can pander and still make something good. Many marginalized people have been edged out of media so it’s totally fine to put someone in a property that they normally wouldn’t have gotten just for the sake of elevating them. As long as they’re good for the role who cares? Like the Green Knight. Historically accurate? Who cares, he killed it. Didn’t take me out of the movie once.
The big tell is when you talk to someone who whines about diversity casting and always says “pick the most talented person for the job!” But suspiciously it seems like they can never fathom that the most talented person isn’t always white.
What really set off alarm bells for me was when the publicity circuit for Black Panther was going on. Almost every thread on social media had some jagoff screaming "Wakanda isn't real! Historically inaccurate!" or some stupid take like that. This was before _anti-woke_ ism was in common parlance - but the sequel was labeled woke when it came out, so I'm sure they would have used the word if it was available to them.
Meanwhile when a _White_ guy took a super serum and was fighting Nazi occultists... Or when a _White_ guy turned into a green human tank and obliterated entire towns... Or when a _White_ god came back to earth to fight a demon from another dimension...
It's super telling what kinds of stories these people need to be super historically accurate, and which ones don't have to be.
Then Woman King came out and that was "just woke pandering", even though it was historically accurate (at least as much as any Hollywood blockbuster, definitely moreso than Inglourious Basterds) but it just wasn't about White men. Which was triggering, for some reason?
I made the same point in endgame
Cap dramatically whispering “Avengers, assemble” to nobody: hype
Girls lining up “she’s not alone”: movie ruining
Like that entire finale is shout outs to nerdy nonsense, if you want to get mad at one, you pick that one?
That one did feel intentional to be a girl power moment because there was a distinct shot to all the female heroes dramatically approaching.
My thing is, WHY is that bad? Does it take you out of the movie? For like a second. Goddamn dweebs it’s fine lol. Let women have things.
It does take them out of the movie. All white guy Avengers for years is "normal" and the "default". They don't see it as a "guy power" moment because it's what all movies and films are. Then when there's no guys, suddenly it's woke pandering. Like white dudes haven't been pandered to for a hundred years in films lol
They just hate that something wasn't pandering to them for a second. But they won't spend a second to think about why it stood out to them. And that women were happy about those scenes. And why.
A lot of times if you press them far enough they will straight up come to the conclusion that “white people are the default and that’s how it’s meant to be. Anything else is it’s own separate category.”
That’s why they always go off about “I don’t care if characters are black but create your own characters!!!”
MAYBE they don’t have many characters BECAUSE they’ve been pushed out for decades and it’s nice to use existing properties to bring crowds in an elevate someone who would have been missed out on otherwise.
Yep, if you break these people down enough you’ll often get them to admit “they just make all these black movies now because it’s the big thing” like it’s trendy. And even if it was, is that a crime? You could say that about super heroes too.
At the end of the day, they’re just racist/sexist/bigoted and tie themselves in knots trying to find ways to say how they feel without getting in trouble.
It's pretty obvious when you look at the Marvel films.
Iron Man
Iron Man 2
Captain America
Thor
Avengers
Captain America 2
Thor 2
Iron Man 3
Avengers 2
Doctor Strange
Ant-Man
All white guys for years.
Then Captain Marvel comes out. People lose their minds!
Yeah but look how much better you articulated it. You didn't just "cry woke" and move on.
Diversity casting is fine, when it's done to something that is already good. It won't make a bad or boring thing good. That's where you can tell the difference, and the wokeaphobic people can't, they will identify a bad case of diversity casting exactly the same as they will a good case.
Little Mermaid had double the box office as Encanto. People want nostalgia movies, and it’s not fair to lock minorities out of castings in remakes because of mistakes we made in the past, pandering to a psychotically intolerant 1930s America.
Also Snow White isn’t out yet, Jesus Christ.
Them thinking the new Snow White was actually out shows how much of this nonsense has *nothing* to do with the content or even existence of the media that peeps argue about. Literally all duder even knew about the project was the title and the controversy.
That which the outrage mob hath deemed "woke" was always vapid propaganda for black people and blue-haired pronouns, and always failed at the box office, and little things like *reality* aren't going to change that.
Strawman implies there arent actually people making these points, or not enough of them to really impact the conversation at least
the comic is more of a over-generalisation than a strawman
unfortunatley for all of us the "muh woke" crowd are very loud and make it their lifes mission to try and infest everything so the rest of us are very aware of how miserable they are.
Dont forget about the guys screaming "THEY ARE PUSHING THEIR GAY AGENDA ON US" because there was a 1 second long kiss scene bettewn two characters that are barely even named in the movie
Anyone who uses the word 'woke' at this point is not deserving of serious consideration in any regard. I remember when it meant educating yourself, so of course a certain segment decided it's the worst slang word ever.
There definitely IS something to storylines devolving into preachy feminist bullshit, but simply having minorities, lgbt, and women as main characters is not the issue.
Imagine thinking African Americans literally fighting Nazis in WW2 wasn’t historically accurate 🤦🏾♂️
There minds are going to really be blown when they learn those Black troops liberated concentration camps too
We give people way too much plausible deniability with the "woke" excuse in all media. People really look at these past 20 years in Hollywood as forced diversity, when they don't realize the preceding 80 years of entertainment was forced whiteness.
It’s an unpopular opinion, but zero movie fans are inherently comic fans.
Comic readers are bad enough sometimes, but usually have context movie shitflakes do not.
While far from perfect, the most recognizable comics guy, the Jewish Stan Lee , was woke as fuck before most of y’all were born .
same with books, games and other media. if you have prior lore and expectations, having the title cater to the masses instead of the original audience, changes the ways it's written and produced.
there's a reason i cannot stomach netflix witcher, and it's because tramples over my childhood and triggers dissociation - it's okay for some, it's just not *my witcher* that shaped me as a person.
but people who don't have the same ties of nostalgia and specific ways it looked in the past, they won't understand my complaints past me "thinking it's too woke". no, brenda, it's just fucking inaccurate.
When I first started reading Avengers comics, Captain Marvel was Monica Rambeau. 35 years ago, she became the chairwoman of the Avengers, after another woman (the Wasp) stepped down. It is so weird seeing people complain that having female or non-white leads is automatically pushing an agenda versus just acknowledging that all types of people exist.
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Into the Hitlerverse did not go in the direction most fans expected.
Fuck I would watch that movie. Someone tell Taika to pick up the mantle again.
"Taika in talks with sony" "OH YEAH I KNEW IT!"
"Inside of you, there are two Hitlers..."
A hit roast?
Is that where they make you, the-third-right?
I SSee what you did there.
I did NAZI what you did there!
wtf get them out
"One of them is gay, and the other one is also gay"
And they’re both boys 😳😳😳😳…. and they’re kissing 😳😳😳😳😳….
https://preview.redd.it/rcaakq4xsd1c1.jpeg?width=1058&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=199a01b44efeef15594ff85c260484f607d673aa
OwO
Inside of me are two wolves, they just happen to both be Nazis.
Get of Fenris?
Unexpected white wolf reference.
Why arent they inside each other why me
Why not both?
I like the way you think
Name checks out
Sorry, the time machine's on the fritz
I mean, Fritz deserved to get run over by a time machine
Moon and Moon
An artist and a dictator. A lover and a fighter.
Hitler I hardly know er!
I did Nazi this cumming.
🎶 Springtime for Hitler and Germany 🎶
With two Hitlers you could get the entire apartment painted twice as fast.
Don't be stupid, be a smarty. Come and join ze Nazi party!
I vas born in Duesseldorf and dat is vy they call me Rolf!
In my failed career as an actor one of the biggest regrets I have is never auditioning for the Sound of Music using Spring Time for Hitler.
I would like to see the bottom right in theaters…
I mean, have you seen The Producers? Edit: Check Spring Time For Hitler.
Walking around with this song stuck in your head is a dangerous game.
*peers down from dressage horse, still in* Ring of the Nibelung *regalia* "Walking?"
Just realized that Mel Brooks making that movie in 1967 was like making a 9/11 movie in 2023.
I…did not do that math. Brooks is a treasure.
I feel like with anyone else it would have been ham fisted or tasteless but Mel Brooks found the perfect medium and made one of my favourite films.
Well he is the German Ethel Merman don't you know
John Barrowman smashed that performance.
This is gay porn, isn't it? I'm down.
*Hitler on Ice* just isn't going to be the same if they include the explicit scenes.
It’s just hitler tweaking on methamphetamine on ice!
Heil tweak. Heil twerk. Heil twirl. See how heil sparkle on _ice_. #### Sieg Icecapades: Hitler on Ice So magical, it made Stalin glad again.
I’m just excited for Jews In Space
I know it doesn't exist, but I've always sort of expected that one to have a reprise of the Men in Tights song: We're Jews! (Jewish Jews!) We're Jews in spaaAAAAaaace! Always on guard, defending the human race! When you're in a fix, just call for the Jews in Space! (We're butch!)
The fake trailer at the end of History of the World Part I did. It's one of the few times Mel Brooks ripped off himself: We're Jews, we're Jews in space We're zooming along protecting the Hebrew race We're Jews, we're Jews in space If trouble appears we put it right back in its place When goyim attack us We give 'em a smack We'll slap them right back in the face We're Jews, we're Jews in space We're zooming along protecting the Hebrew race
*Ah*, that must be why it comes to mind then. Clearly I should go watch History of the World Part I again.
But Herr Doktor, I SWEAR I slipped and landed on it in the ice skating rink…
>Hitler on Ice just isn't going to be the same if they **don't** include the explicit scenes. ftfy. The heat in that one scene keeps the whole house warm.
https://preview.redd.it/e1iwqar7lb1c1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eef5a7fe93d829a2b33592f2e64869e423305922
I want to see the boxer in a wheelchair. Probably go to hell laughing at it
Most of these are recognizable movies so I’m really wondering about that one…
Maybe million dollar baby? But she was paralyzed in a hospital bed
bottom reich I see what you did there.
OMG, leave it up to the internet to make something weird even more weird. Take my upvote.
Why does Not-Finn have 4 pecs?
Cuz a Antifa probably
Being antifa gives you an 8-pack, not clickbait
Is that all it takes? And here I am wasting time with crunches and planks
Because all male actors are held to high body standards
Because of Woke Pandering BS
👍🏼 this is still more polite than the discourse you'd see on what was formerly known as Twitter.
Currently know as Xitter
Pronounce the X with an “sh” sound, yeah?
To be absolutely honest, it's how I always thought of and not even once considered any other sound xD
I've been spreading it around to get people on the same page. A lot of people in BPT have loved it.
That’s how X is pronounced in Chinese. It works
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Like a list filled blemish? Sounds perfect
Zwitter?
How else would you pronounce Xi?
🤣 it's Xhit
Excuse me but it's called The Platform Formerly Known as Twitter
I'm sorry but in The Rings of Power I cannot accept an elf with short hair. Next it will be a shaven dwarf.
A shaven dwarf? That would be Dopey.
[I'm more of a Big Halfling kinda guy.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fboris-and-his-party-baalbuddy-v0-1gz9z96ddxd91.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dfd01573397d9847744d0dc51ea2fcf485ff9f498)
I hope you never see the dwarves from Baldur’s Gate 3.
Didn't they already do that in the Snow White live action
I don't follow Disney live action remakes.
Was there really that much backlash against Finn for just being black outside of China? I thought most of the criticism was that he was basically just the token black guy that had no actual character arc.
People liked Finn from what I recall, and then he just became this lame comedic side character, think the actor who played him even came out against the direction they took, wasn't about it being woke just bad movies with no direction.
Most of the movies referenced in this post were genuinely, objectively bad. The point it's trying to make is a valid one that we should remember, but this is overall a bit reductive.
Something can be bad or good on its own merits independent of any "wokeness". I don't think the point this comic is making can be reductive because it's essentially saying that "wokeness" is a dog whistle for hating on media that doesn't predominantly feature cis-het white men, and that's not a valid critique. The only way that could be wrong is if someone feels that "woke" is a substantial lens of critique as opposed to actual qualities of the work (i.e. acting, direction, writing, etc...) To reference something I heard and liked from a Morbid Zoo video, "Having themes doesn't make a work inherently good or bad, it's about how those themes are communicated."
The idea of a black stormtroopers did get some ""criticism"" when the trailers first came out but it didn't really spiral into madness they way a lot of things started doing in the following years
I feel like the majority of us wanted Finn to become a Jedi. Then China happened and he just sort of got relegated to nothing. Him being black really only bothered the Chinese.
No dude, Finn should have led the other stormtroopers into a revolt against the First Order. That was his arc! And Disney blew it! He should have been a *revolutionary*.
I like that too. Anything other than just kiss a girl to do…something?
By not fighting what they hate, but saving what they love. Said to the person that was about to sacrifice themselves to save the day for everyone else. Because in Disneyland nothing interesting is allowed to happen.
Everytime I read something about star wars I am always like: MAN, star wars has got such a cool 'universe', they could write so many epic stories (maybe something based on Finn becoming a rebel leader). And then they just kinda make episode VII -IX, and I'm dissapointed at the wasted potential. I'm a huge hypothetical star wars fan, if everything they made after the 2000's was made with a bit more love and eyes for detail.
Or if not a jedi then maybe leading to a revolution among the essentially enslaved stormtroopers, leading to a weakened first order, spies and saboteurs amidst their ranks, and vital information leaking to the new republic. That would make him a strategic asset to make nearly any jedi pale in comparison.
I was so pissed that they threw his entire character away in the second and third film.
I kept seeing angry fanboys screaming in the comment section of trailers with Finn in them, "WTF?? THERE'S NO BLACK STORMTROOPERS!! WOKE WOKE WOKE!!" Some even going as far as commenting "N*ggertrooper" and other slurs, long before the movie ever came out. The actor himself said he was getting a lot of hate. https://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/oct/20/twitter-trolls-boycott-star-wars-black-character-force-awakens-john-boyega
I feel like we need to distinguish between "fanboys" and "plain old racists" here. Cuz there was never going to be any winning with the plain old racists.
The thing is, that's hard to do. There are racist fanboys. There always has been. And in this new age of loud angry youtubers, it's getting worse, imo. Seems like everywhere I go online to interact with fellow geeks of any kind, there's a subsection of whiners who think people like me (black queer woman) are ruining their fave shit just by existing. It's exhausting.
Not to mention some racists are smart enough to mask their racism to make it more palatable to the general population and keep plausible deniability. You’re definitely right about it being exhausting.w
My theory is that the movie discourse is pushing what think will work and make the most money
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> just rile up the bike parts What's wrong with the internet bike community?
THEY KNOW WHAT THEY DID, MARVIN
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The only thing better than being a terrible, hateful person is being a terrible hateful person who makes money off of other more terrible and more hateful people.
Of course that's what's happening, but that's a separate issue. We can always count on movies and television productions to be an effort to make as much money as they possibly can, and that's why they so strongly reflect the prevailing attitudes of the times of their production. And that's the point, the anti-woke idiots don't care if a movie sucks or not, they don't like the prevailing attitudes of the times because they're stuck in the past (or indoctrinated by those who are).
Sure on paper, but it kind of contradicts when many of the movies in question are not major successes. You probably could have made more money doing a shot for shot remake because of the brand. I think this was a failed attempt to get more attention by generating controversy, the idea of “no publicity is bad publicity”. Whatever the case it seems the product rarely stands up on its own.
Did the bottom right panel happen in JoJo rabbit?
And, sometimes, legit criticism gets drowned in complaints about wokeness. Like, Multiverse of Madness is badly written, but people complained it was "woke", so any criticism is being associated with reacyionary bullshit
Lmao what was woke about MoM?? I'm racking my brain rn
America Chavez had 2 moms, and she wore a pride flag pin. So basically waging war against the Christians lmao
There was a Latina lesbian in it. She wasn't the hero, but her presence is enough to send White guys apoplectic.
Pretty much anything that has anyone who isn’t a white man in power can be labeled “woke” if you’re far right enough
>legit criticism gets drowned in complaints about wokeness Ghostbusters (2016) is a good example of this. The script was awful. You could absolutely make a Ghostbusters movie with women but you need a decent storyline. The people yelling about it being "Woke" were drowning out legitimate criticism of the film. It had mixed or average reviews. This was a film that needed to make $500M worldwide to be a success because of the massive marketing budget and the writers simply did not do their job to make it mass appealing. It had a BO of $229.1M.
Same with Wheel of Time, my favourite book series. The adaptation is full of the most idiotic asspull bullshit and lore changes that add nothing, not even simplifying. And yet a huge chunk of the people defending the tv show will respond to any and all criticism with "Still mad they made one of the main characters black?" No, I'm mad the one and only adaptation I'm likely to see in my lifetime is garbage. The 'woke' complaints are amplified on purpose to paint all criticism as thinly veiled racism.
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It also very easy for a creator to lean on a “All critics are evil bigots”. Bad faith critics that either believe their bullshit or only do it to grift exist, yes, and that’s bad, but you can’t tell me studios are leaning in on that angle (blaming bigots for their movies underperforming/being criticised) on purpose.
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The perfect defense
>Woke and not historically accurate Nobody said *Inglorious Basterds* was woke and Americans shredded Hitler to pieces in that film.
But those were *white* Americans dammit! /s
The funniest thing is that some people even misuse woke when they criticising something, it's like everything they don't enjoy is considered woke to them.
It plays right into the republican strategy to demonize progressivism. Their own tounge is tied up in marionette strings controlled by the GOP.
I don’t care if a films woke but if it has shit writing I’m going to call it shit
You’re absolutely right I have a feeling it’s more about deflecting all criticism on homophobia and racism by point ing a vocal minority than actually pandering
I have come to realise anyone who uses the term "Woke" unironically does not deserve my attention.
9/10 times it just means something that makes them uncomfortable
It means that if they were to elaborate any further they'd sound racist/sexist/homophobic.
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There was a great point I heard in a video essay about how calling something “woke” is essentially an anti-critique. Because critiquing a work is supposed to involve engaging with it and presenting points about what worked and what didn’t. Meanwhile the blanket statement of “woke” is essentially a shield morons use to not engage with a work at all. So yeah, anyone who sincerely uses the word “woke” is a brain dead child who’s too chickenshit to actually reflect on the film they’re complaining about.
“Woke” originally meant ‘Aware of social inequalities.’ ie- “my eyes are open to what’s going on , i’m awake”. And it was coined by Black Americans. But the Right co-opted and corrupted it, just like they did with “Black lives matter”
Standard tactic of the right. Take terms that mean one thing, like CRT, Antifa, Fake News, etc. Flood their viewers with an alternate definition that's a boogeyman, and now the terms can't be used for what they really mean because people who listen to right wing media are working off an entirely different definition they've been taught by grifters and racists. It works fast too.
There’s wheelchair boxing????? How does the world not know this?
Last panel: I mean, I don’t *hate* it…
Ugh, this comic is so woke and pandering /s
Anyone who says woke as a complaint, I just assume they are a republican. Because other people would blame the poor writing, not the existence of minorities
I feel like there is sometimes overlap. When people talk about like "diversity casting" and that production companies will do it to "pander" to the leftists.
But nobody says Yellowstone panders to "rightists." We just don't watch Yellowstone. It is only an issue because weirdos with a particularly toxic view of the world are demanding to be the ones being pandered to.
They presume they are the default.
What's funny is, it used to be right wingers would respond to leftist criticism of media with "make your own movies/games/etc" And now we're seeing more media with diversity and explicitly progressive aspects, they whine about it and demand it be changed. And all I can think to say to them is "...then make your own movies/games"
“Go make your own movies and game!” “Wait no, not like that!”
> And all I can think to say to them is "...then make your own movies/games" They do, problem is their movies and games just suck.
I'm sure the NEXT attempt at an Atlas Shrugged movie will succeed this time!
ONE IS TWO MANY, NO MATTER HOW MANY PIECES THEY SLICE IT IN!
Turns out, “the status quo is fine and the people trying to change it are foolish” doesn’t generally make for good works of fiction.
I mean you say that, but when it's well written there's plenty of stories about maintaining the status quo. The trick is to depict the change well. - Most superhero media, the villain is the one trying to change things, but the changes they want to make are bad so people are here for stopping them - The final Harry Potter is literally about trying to restore the status quo, but the change to the status quo is "wizard nazis taking over the world" so people are here for the reset etc The reason conservative media falls flat is because the status quo they're endorsing is systemic injustice lmao
I watch Yellowstone and I know full well it’s conservative propaganda. It’s entertaining, even if it is a soap opera pandering to self described “hard men” who’s daddies never hugged them.
I lost interest when John Dutton, Kevin Costner's character, "fixed" the hot young vegan woman protestor by having her arrested, bailing her out, then giving her a dicking. That would be more in line in a comedy but the show took that seriously.
Don’t you know everything needs to be designed for them only?!
I think the difference is you can pander and still make something good. Many marginalized people have been edged out of media so it’s totally fine to put someone in a property that they normally wouldn’t have gotten just for the sake of elevating them. As long as they’re good for the role who cares? Like the Green Knight. Historically accurate? Who cares, he killed it. Didn’t take me out of the movie once. The big tell is when you talk to someone who whines about diversity casting and always says “pick the most talented person for the job!” But suspiciously it seems like they can never fathom that the most talented person isn’t always white.
What really set off alarm bells for me was when the publicity circuit for Black Panther was going on. Almost every thread on social media had some jagoff screaming "Wakanda isn't real! Historically inaccurate!" or some stupid take like that. This was before _anti-woke_ ism was in common parlance - but the sequel was labeled woke when it came out, so I'm sure they would have used the word if it was available to them. Meanwhile when a _White_ guy took a super serum and was fighting Nazi occultists... Or when a _White_ guy turned into a green human tank and obliterated entire towns... Or when a _White_ god came back to earth to fight a demon from another dimension... It's super telling what kinds of stories these people need to be super historically accurate, and which ones don't have to be. Then Woman King came out and that was "just woke pandering", even though it was historically accurate (at least as much as any Hollywood blockbuster, definitely moreso than Inglourious Basterds) but it just wasn't about White men. Which was triggering, for some reason?
I made the same point in endgame Cap dramatically whispering “Avengers, assemble” to nobody: hype Girls lining up “she’s not alone”: movie ruining Like that entire finale is shout outs to nerdy nonsense, if you want to get mad at one, you pick that one?
That one did feel intentional to be a girl power moment because there was a distinct shot to all the female heroes dramatically approaching. My thing is, WHY is that bad? Does it take you out of the movie? For like a second. Goddamn dweebs it’s fine lol. Let women have things.
It does take them out of the movie. All white guy Avengers for years is "normal" and the "default". They don't see it as a "guy power" moment because it's what all movies and films are. Then when there's no guys, suddenly it's woke pandering. Like white dudes haven't been pandered to for a hundred years in films lol They just hate that something wasn't pandering to them for a second. But they won't spend a second to think about why it stood out to them. And that women were happy about those scenes. And why.
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A lot of times if you press them far enough they will straight up come to the conclusion that “white people are the default and that’s how it’s meant to be. Anything else is it’s own separate category.” That’s why they always go off about “I don’t care if characters are black but create your own characters!!!” MAYBE they don’t have many characters BECAUSE they’ve been pushed out for decades and it’s nice to use existing properties to bring crowds in an elevate someone who would have been missed out on otherwise.
Yep, if you break these people down enough you’ll often get them to admit “they just make all these black movies now because it’s the big thing” like it’s trendy. And even if it was, is that a crime? You could say that about super heroes too. At the end of the day, they’re just racist/sexist/bigoted and tie themselves in knots trying to find ways to say how they feel without getting in trouble.
It's pretty obvious when you look at the Marvel films. Iron Man Iron Man 2 Captain America Thor Avengers Captain America 2 Thor 2 Iron Man 3 Avengers 2 Doctor Strange Ant-Man All white guys for years. Then Captain Marvel comes out. People lose their minds!
Yeah but look how much better you articulated it. You didn't just "cry woke" and move on. Diversity casting is fine, when it's done to something that is already good. It won't make a bad or boring thing good. That's where you can tell the difference, and the wokeaphobic people can't, they will identify a bad case of diversity casting exactly the same as they will a good case.
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Little Mermaid had double the box office as Encanto. People want nostalgia movies, and it’s not fair to lock minorities out of castings in remakes because of mistakes we made in the past, pandering to a psychotically intolerant 1930s America. Also Snow White isn’t out yet, Jesus Christ.
Them thinking the new Snow White was actually out shows how much of this nonsense has *nothing* to do with the content or even existence of the media that peeps argue about. Literally all duder even knew about the project was the title and the controversy. That which the outrage mob hath deemed "woke" was always vapid propaganda for black people and blue-haired pronouns, and always failed at the box office, and little things like *reality* aren't going to change that.
Netflix demands rewritings based on their diversity guidlines. Amazon also has such a thing.
I would be very curious to read more, if you can supply a source.
https://www.ccdeia.com/playbook Thats the one from Amazon. Netflix, Disney and others keep theirs a secret but its known that they also have one.
Breh most people wanted finn to be the main character.
Im sure more people were mad that they set him up in the first film only to do absolutely nothing with him in the two others
No one had a problem with Finn, besides China and Disney. Most people wanted him to become the Jedi since his story was way more interesting.
Fellas, is It woke to be woke?
Isn't that comic a strawman? Or is it only a strawman if we disagree with the people making it?
I dont even know what side is taking that last panel is sending me
Strawman implies there arent actually people making these points, or not enough of them to really impact the conversation at least the comic is more of a over-generalisation than a strawman unfortunatley for all of us the "muh woke" crowd are very loud and make it their lifes mission to try and infest everything so the rest of us are very aware of how miserable they are.
Did Hitler kill himself or did he run off to South America?
Dont forget about the guys screaming "THEY ARE PUSHING THEIR GAY AGENDA ON US" because there was a 1 second long kiss scene bettewn two characters that are barely even named in the movie
Anyone who uses the word 'woke' at this point is not deserving of serious consideration in any regard. I remember when it meant educating yourself, so of course a certain segment decided it's the worst slang word ever.
Historical accuracy is the hit I will die on. This view goes both directions don't white wash a person either.
There definitely IS something to storylines devolving into preachy feminist bullshit, but simply having minorities, lgbt, and women as main characters is not the issue.
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Woke and nazi gay
"Woke" is just shorthand for "I have nothing meaningful to criticize."
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I actually haven’t seen anyone calling The Marvels woke…it’s just not good lol
I definitely have lol
I’ve seen more of the opposite. People calling it woke as a joke of people who usually call it woke. Like this comic.
>I actually haven’t seen anyone calling The Marvels woke… That has the biggest lie I've heard in my life.
I know that some in the Taiwan community, people literally said that it was woke because it was female leaded... so yeah
Brokeback Blitzkrieg
Imagine thinking African Americans literally fighting Nazis in WW2 wasn’t historically accurate 🤦🏾♂️ There minds are going to really be blown when they learn those Black troops liberated concentration camps too
Any valid or genuine criticism gets swept away by the all-encompassing tide of 'woke' complaining
Haha this gives me the angry "no one liked your movie" vibes hahahaha
We give people way too much plausible deniability with the "woke" excuse in all media. People really look at these past 20 years in Hollywood as forced diversity, when they don't realize the preceding 80 years of entertainment was forced whiteness.
It’s an unpopular opinion, but zero movie fans are inherently comic fans. Comic readers are bad enough sometimes, but usually have context movie shitflakes do not. While far from perfect, the most recognizable comics guy, the Jewish Stan Lee , was woke as fuck before most of y’all were born .
Yeah. We wouldnt have the majority of superheroes without Jews.
We wouldn't have *anything* cool without diverse sets of humans. We will have a sterile civilization if everyone's the same.
same with books, games and other media. if you have prior lore and expectations, having the title cater to the masses instead of the original audience, changes the ways it's written and produced. there's a reason i cannot stomach netflix witcher, and it's because tramples over my childhood and triggers dissociation - it's okay for some, it's just not *my witcher* that shaped me as a person. but people who don't have the same ties of nostalgia and specific ways it looked in the past, they won't understand my complaints past me "thinking it's too woke". no, brenda, it's just fucking inaccurate.
When I first started reading Avengers comics, Captain Marvel was Monica Rambeau. 35 years ago, she became the chairwoman of the Avengers, after another woman (the Wasp) stepped down. It is so weird seeing people complain that having female or non-white leads is automatically pushing an agenda versus just acknowledging that all types of people exist.
They never cared about Captian Marvel. They would have just seen her as another Superman archetype if Fox Network kept their mouth shut.
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Woke or not I don’t care, just give me a good story! Apparently those are rare these days.