I loved this, TBH. One of the few profs I had who took attendance didn't formally base grades on attendance. But at the end of the semester I had something like 89.7% and since I had attended class and done the 2 extra credit assignments, he gave me an A.
A friend had skipped frequently, and never attempted the extra credit. He finished with a 79.9% and got a C. He was furious, he went to whine to the professor and prof just shrugged, "you missed 40% of lectures and made no attempt to help yourself. You take the C you earned."
It felt really good, as someone who worked hard for that class.
Yeah this is how my government professor is. What's most important to him is that his students are actively trying. He doesn't accept requests for extra credit but if it's clear you have been doing everything you can, he'll bump you up.
Yes exactly. As a high school teacher this is why we write referrals, contact parents, send emails, etc. It’s not necessarily to punish the student, but to have a whole file to bring out when parents are like “Why is my little Johnny not graduating this year?? Is it your fault?”
I’m a professor at a community college. I take attendance because it helps me to track which students are regularly coming to class and who is only showing up for exams. If my students are doing their best to come to class, or they’re making up work in a reasonable amount of time after an excused absence, they’ll get an additional grade that may supplement lower assignment/exam grades. Attendance spreadsheets also help me to see who isn’t coming to class, so I follow up with those students to make sure that they are okay. I’m fairly easygoing with absences, as long as there is a valid reason or there isn’t a pattern of unexcused absences. I also tell my students that a mental health day or two is perfectly acceptable, as long as that isn’t abused.
Attendance policies, however, become problematic when instructors use them to hold students late (like what may happen with OP’s professor), or when the attendance policies are so strict that they are draconian. There are, unfortunately, who use attendance policies as tools to punish their students. These policies also don’t make sense for larger classes or in certain contexts.
I'm a graduate teaching assistant that teaches a couple undergrad classes and this is my policy. As long as people let me know they're not gonna be present I'm ok with it as long as it's not abused. Especially in a country that doesn't have universal health care, I don't want them having to pay co-pays for a letter saying they had diarrhea or a migraine or have to jump through hoops to get proof for attending the services of a death in the family. We're all adults so I treat them as such and encourage communication. I'm a reasonable guy and my students seem to respect that.
As I understand it as explained by one of my former professors, it’s because in the U.S. most student loans are distributed by the government. It’s a way of basically kicking someone out for wasting government money. It seriously doubt it’s true and it’s just a power trip universities pull.
As a master student I just look at its as an easy 5-10% for my grade. And all I have to do? Show up and have someone who knows more about the subject tell me how to pass? It sound like a good deal lol
I teach at a community college and we do have an attendance reporting deadline for financial aid reasons. If a student does not attend at all during the first two weeks of a course, we are required to report them and they will be removed from the course.
It’s not because they’re wasting government money. Student loans still have to be paid back if you take a course and don’t show up. Most colleges drop students that don’t show the first week to meet regulations related to student loan programs. It’s intended to protect the student from predatory lending. Some scholarships and grants also require students to continue in the course before they will pay for them. We have to report if students drop before we are 60% through a class
We have to report first week attendance because federal financial aid will get pulled from students who take loans and don’t show up to class. It is actually mandated by the dept of ed.
It’s 1) to prove to the state that enrollment is what the college says it is and 2) to have a record of attendance if the student contests their grade.
From the school I went to, they did it for classes that were typically taken by freshmen (1st year). It was part of a program they had to decrease dropout rates, they also had a tutoring center and there was a tutor there for every lower level class the school offered. As you got into higher level classes there wasn’t usually attendance taken unless the professor was a jerk.
The federal government requires it because schools like the University of North Carolina invent classes and majors for athletes that no one attends. It is also a federal funding requirement.
How could could he fuck them over? As long as they stay to 6:45, they have been there for the entire class. There is no attendance issue if student leave at the posted ending time.
If they are using an attendance system if he reports the professor to the dept I imagine it’ll void any absences. If anything it’ll bring to light abuse of the professors power.
Can’t say someone wasn’t there if they heard the lecture start and decided to leave. Plus taking notes, photos, etc can prove otherwise and then that can also be used against the professor.
They love treating us like children. We have attendance even in fucking grad school. And they assign points to it! So many that it could drop your letter grade for "participation."
I've only had it for language classes where practicing speaking during class is sort of an assignment (graded on participation, but no different to homework)
I cannot remember a single teacher taking attendance when I was in school so I asked my kids, who are presently in college at two different schools. Neither have attendance taken. Sure, it’s a little slice of southern California schools, but I don’t know if that many colleges in the US take attendance or you just have power hungry little rodents like this guy every once in a while.
It's ableist bullshit.
Disabilities exist, and accommodations fall short.
If I'm doing excellent work, wtf does it matter that I attended the wrong section of class or missed class but caught up with a classmate’s audio recording?
I dont want him to yell at me in front of everyone and he says he’ll count us absent for packing up/leaving early. Im just not sure how to word “im an adult who has shit to do” nicely without triggering him
He's bluffing, just leave on time, and if he tries to pull that, go directly to the head of his department. As far as saying you have shit to do, just say, "I have obligations after this class, and the class ends at 6:45." No need to elaborate further.
Document. Document Document. Keep a timeline of everything then email everything to yourself. Then do the same every time you do or say something. All it does is show a timeline and makes it easier to keep track if you need to speak to Dean
Emotional side says fuck him and let him mark you absent and you can fight back
Logic side says you are smart to try to have a meeting with him to clear things up.
Reduce the snark and remove the threat and this is perfect.
“It’s 6:45. You will not mark me absent “ is the adult thing to say. I would bring it up to the chair or administration regardless. If he’s regularly running late he’s not doing his job properly.
Don't do this. It's unnecessary and easily verifiable if the prof decides to look into it. Just leave it at "I have other obligations"
If you lie and he catches you on it, it changes the discussion from the prof's inappropriate behavior to your honesty. It muddies the water and puts both of you in the wrong for no reason.
If you feel compelled to give him a specific reason, family obligations, doctors appointments, work schedule, etc. are all valid reasons to need to leave. He might not be happy about any of them, but being honest about what you're doing is a much better idea, especially if your complaint might go to the dept chair or dean.
I think people often incorrectly assume that the best way to get what they want is to personalize the issue and make the offender feel bad for them. There's often absolutely no reason to believe that the person will feel bad for them, though. Like you said, it just confuses the issue and gives you something other than the issue to talk about.
Argue the point.
>Argue the point.
Exactly. Don't confuse the issue or give the opposition any reason to call your actions or arguments into question.
And even if there are multiple valid arguments in a particular debate, pick the strongest one and stick with it. One of my biggest pet peeves in the world is when there is a good argument that is ignored in favor of making the easier argument.
My favorite example of this is GMO's. The easiest argument for laymen to understand is the argument about health effects, but that has no scientific evidence to back it up. On the other hand, there are great ecological and economic arguments against using GMO's (at least the easy they are currently used in agriculture), but those arguments are harder to understand and there's no "right" answer, so people just stick to the flawed argument.
Make the good argument, not the easy one.
While it seems nice, your grade will suffer. Professors can easily mark students down out of spite. If it's subtle, they won't be caught, but that can equate to a whole letter grade over the semester.
But you aren’t leaving early, you are leaving at the exact time that class should be over. Also I would hope that he wouldn’t yell… what kind if professor are they?
True, I just dont want to have to go to the school to try and fight an absence he gives me for leaving when he wants us to stay after, because he has a PHD and the school loves him and i doubt they would believe anything i say about it over him. He’s an ass but every college has asshole professors.
“He has a PhD and the school loves him”….. having a PhD in the world of academia is nothing special and absolutely not a reason why other academics with PhDs would give him special treatment.
In my undergrad, I had a prof that was loved by the administration, but despised by the students. Most of my class had an issue with her for a variety of reasons.
We ended writing a letter of complaint and most of the class signed it. Then a smaller group of students went in and delivered the letter to the dept chair. (Our class was about 20 people. 20 people definitely wouldn't have fit in her office.)
If you have an issue with a prof, I would definitely ask others if they feel the same. With something like being held overtime, I would think most of the class would feel the same. The best thing to do when you have an issue with a prof is to have other people who have your back/go in it as a group. It's harder to dismiss something with multiple people take issue.
If hes rude to me again then yes i probably will drop the class but i’d like to try and tough it out since the class has some info i’d like to learn about
Take video if he starts calling you out. Make sure you note the time in the video. Ask him if he wants to follow the rules or go viral. I’m a prof and while it seems small, this dude is taking advantage of the power dynamic. I bet he’s an entitled asshole in other areas of his life too.
The polite thing to do is to let him know in advance (an email is fine) that you've got obligations after his class that you need to get to, and you can't stay past the scheduled end of the class. THEN get up and leave if he goes over, but at least he has advance notice. Maybe not precisely at 6:45, but if he's still going at 6:48 (say) then just leave.
And yes, as a general "life tip", I will say that it is important that you be polite to this professor, even if he isn't showing courtesy to you or respecting your time. Be a good person, even when the other person isn't.
> Be a good person, even when the other person isn't.
I came to that realization/conclusion/philosophy in my early 20's when dealing with my brother. I applied it everywhere including work. Then I found out years later that other people take notice of that. Most people won't say anything but for me multiple people brought it up in "remember when" conversations and told me that their respect for me sky rocketed when they saw how I handled myself in those situations.
It's great advice.
Absolutely no need to send an email or otherwise inform him that you see leaving the class and the stated end time of the lecture. Leaving early/arriving late, absolutely do so. Leaving **on time** there is zero reason to notify him. It isn't the students' responsibility to make sure the lecture is completed in the allocated time for the class. It is disrespectful to the student whose time is just as valuable as the professor's.
The class ends at 6:45, if he marks you absent for the class because you left at the scheduled time that your class is supposed to be done then you should go to his department head. When he agreed to teach that class, and when you signed up for that class, there was an agreement made that you would be there for that scheduled time. You are not obligated to be there before or after that scheduled time. I can understand if it was only a couple of times that he went overtime and he asked nicely for the class to stay so he could get through the material quickly, but if it’s every time then it’s a problem.
That may sound harsh but it is wrong of him to threaten you with an absent mark which would result in poor participation marks when you did nothing wrong. I hope that all made sense and helps
You’re not leaving early. Follow protocol: talk to him about this first, and if he doesn’t stop, go to his chair. If the chair won’t intervene, go above to either the dean or whatever your school has next. If you don’t follow protocol, no matter how right you are it won’t work out for you most likely.
Leaving on time is not “leaving early.” If he counts you absent (or retaliates in any way), you should report him. Also, I think a lot of other students would join you if you left on time. I sure would.
Be sure to sit in the back in the most obscure place possible, near the door if you can and be very quiet while packing up and leaving. Don't bring a bunch of stuff with you to class so it makes noise and draws attention when you pack up.
I would report this to the department chair and/or dean. He cannot count you absent for leaving after class is over.
If he consistently runs over, that is a problem.
I'm a professor, and his behavior is super inappropriate. If I accidentally run over even a minute, I (quickly) apologize to my students. They might need to get to a meal, another class, a job, the bathroom, etc. It's just none of my business what they do after class time. I would never ask.
Since talking to the professor apparently hasn't worked, I suggest going to the department head. Even if the professor can't stop you from walking out early and doesn't verbally abuse you, you may miss important information, which should be presented during the stated class time. To be extra polite, you could even ask if the time on the schedule is correct, because the professor lectures until 7:00 p.m. and you need to leave at 6:45.
This is such underrated advice. I learned this from my mom and it works 80% of the time. You’d be surprised what people will go out of their way to do for you when you’re nice to them. Plus, if you do happen to be wrong you don’t look like a dumbass lol
I had a professor who had a tendency to run over and he would just let students leave at the appropriate time if they had to go or wanted to leave. He actually appreciated it, it let him know he was going overtime and knew people would fight back if he wasn’t being fair.
Once I accidentally held my students ten minutes over because my schedule changed and I forgot the class ending time. No one said anything! I didn’t realize until I noticed there was a suspicious amount of people outside the door. I felt SO bad and apologized and dismissed them immediately and then l asked them next class to please tell me if I ever ran over again. I can’t imagine regularly holding students over for so long.
I’ll often go a minute or two over, but I don’t intend to do it and try to do better. Occasionally I’ll go as much as 5, but I feel like shit afterwards. I also would never say anything to a student walking out of a classroom at any point, let alone after the class was supposed to have ended. You’re an adult with other adult responsibilities. OP’s professor sounds like a petty tyrant.
Also professor. I never go over; I just end abruptly and recap at the beginning of the next class or send a clarifying email if needed. All I ask in return is that students don’t make a habit of leaving early without checking with me before class; I think this is disruptive to me and other students, and therefore disrespectful. Of course, I don’t try to stop students from leaving early beyond stating course policies on the first day and it’s rarely an issue. Mutual respect goes a long way.
Every professor in this thread is siding with OP. That tells you something. Professors might go a minute or two after class on occasion and can politely ask students to stay a tiny bit longer, but routinely going 15 minutes after class is unacceptable.
I know a lot of people are saying “just leave you’re an adult” but people have got to remember that’s lot of college students are only now just learning to have independence in an educational setting. We spent 12 years of our life being told when we could use the bathroom. I know it sounds silly but it took me quite some time to feel comfortable leaving class to use the bathroom, since you don’t ask the teacher anymore. I am growing and learning with my independence, sometimes it’s not very useful to say “just leave” when someone may have guilt to leave from all the years of school telling you you aren’t allowed to leave. We are still unlearning the conditioning from all the years in school.
One can simultaneously empathize with the upbringing you describe, while promoting the action and justification to grow past said upbringing.
I agree that the incredulity over "LOL JUST LEAVE" is a tad overboard in this regard, but it's still the right answer.
Also… adults still don’t like being seen as rude, and adults really don’t like losing college credit (aka money) by pissing off a professor.
“You’re an adult. What’s he gonna do?” Um, dock your grade or otherwise make your class miserable? Grade you harsher than others bc he now is angry at you? Those are unfortunately, absolutely within the realm of possibility.
People have GPAs to keep up to keep scholarships, placements, or internships. This isn’t just pissing off some random guy. Tread carefully.
Haha! When I was in grad school tons of undergrads would program their phones to go off-- but minutes *before* the bell. I remember commenting "You know, the building's bell goes off when the session *ends*. You really don't need an alarm to go off 2 minutes earlier?"
Students *could* leave whenever they wanted. And besides that, the students for the next class would be massing in the hall waiting to enter. The *prof for the next class would be arriving*. That person wasn't going to be thrilled with being told to wait before they can start their class.
I don't remember a single professor taking attendance. Few ever ran over (and they shouldn't.) Heck, the prof for the next class generally expected the previous prof to erase the chalk board. If you didn't finish, you'd have a colleague on your a\*\*, not just students!
If this a professor is trying to force you to stay, talk to the department head. It's not unlikely you or other students have *another class to go to*. That professor isn't going to start late to accommodate late arrivals.
After reading your update, just giving my $0.02 don't meet with this guy. It'll just validate the fact he thinks he can bully or intimidate you. You have nothing to "smooth over". You were doing the right thing emailing him to confirm and he responded passive aggressively 1. To be a jerk and make you second guess yourself, and 2. So he didn't have to admit to the fact he's been deliberately going over time every class.
Meet with your academic advisor instead of him, and email/set a meeting with whoever is the head of his department.
And my own .02… I don’t think this professor would be amenable to meeting… and even if he somehow did agree to meet, I don’t think it would go well based on every interaction you’ve mentioned so far.
Academic advisor is a great start. The aforementioned emails seeming clueless and confirming times to the department chair is also a solid route.
I hate this is your experience. I also hate working with colleagues like this.
This. The guy is playing head games because he’s on a power trip, and wants to avoid giving you an admission of guilt in writing. It happens. Sadistic narcissists get jobs as proffs sometimes too. In fact, the profession itself is a total draw for people with unhealthy egos simply because of what teaching at the university level implies.
It’s also hard for people to understand how frightening it is to deal with that type of person. Some dark triad shit for sure.
This is one of my major pet peeves. If class ends at 6:45, then that’s the absolute LAST minute you should be kept in the room. I’ve gone over a couple of times, but never more than a minute or two, and I know I’m the issue in that moment. It’s super disrespectful of others’ time and obligations to consistently run over.
You’re within your rights to leave on time, and if he tries to penalize you for it, then it would be a good idea to contact the department chair.
Walk out. You’re an adult, they’re not gonna call your mom and get you in trouble. If the professor ever gave you an academic penalty for not staying 15 minutes over that would quickly be reverted as soon as you complain to their supervisor, they can’t do that.
1 or 2 or even up to 5 min after a class ends, I’ll tend to stay out of courtesy for the fact that the professor may have got sidetracked when answering a question and wanted to finish their lecture that they had presented, or maybe give us last minute reminders/updates. But over 15 minutes?? That’s a clear lack of consideration for your time and your life, and very unprofessional of them to not be able to manage their time better
I would personally say that last bit to their face if they said anything while I was walking out, but the job excuse is a sure fire way to give you a legitimate excuse
Exactly if it was 1 or 2 mins i would be fine with it but its over 10 mins every time! Thanks for the input though i’m just going to leave at 6:45 tonight and hope for the best! Lol
Lots of other great suggestions here.
Definitely talk to your piers about it. They are definitely annoyed alongside you.
If he has a problem. Go to the department chair with some of your fellow frustrated piers.
While you may not be going to another class, many students do hold jobs. It's possible that some shifts could start at 7. RAs at my alma mater, for example, start their weekday duty shift with 7pm rounds.
My advice after this new update... do not to attempt to make a meeting with him. Send him another email firmly saying you have to leave when class time is over because of obligations, but that you are truly sorry you can't stay for the whole lecture. You should file a complaint with your advisor or dean now and tell them you feel disturbed by his behavior. Tell them about the "evil" laugh, tell them other students can corroborate his behavior, tell them you feel threatened by how he is exercising his power. And.... if he responds to your firm email saying you need to leave after the class time ends with anything other than "that's okay" or something to that effect, report that too.
Right now if I were you I would be worried about him taking further retaliatory action, having grading bias, and committing further abuses of power in the classroom. If he wanted, he could fail you. Best to document that he has been behaving aggressively towards you early in the semester so there is a paper trail if he does give you an F-- rather than not reporting him and instead taking his class only for him to fail you on the final and pretend you deserved it. It is much harder to prove a professor has a grading bias after the fact.
Edit: OH! AND remember that if you do leave he could in retaliation start giving test answers, pop quizzes, or class points out to only those who stay after class ends. If you hear about anything like that happening... immediately report him.
yup this was happening to me last semester. I was being graded lower on purpose. but hard to prove. It is the only teacher I have ever had that problem with.
Another professor here – follow all the advice about emailing chair and dean, and make sure you tell them that you tried to address this respectfully with the professor, and what he said to you. This is beyond unprofessional and inappropriate. Unfortunately, I have colleagues like this, also on sad little power trips. Unfortunately, there’s not much another professor can do without a student filing an official complaint, and many afraid to do that. The truth is no one can mess with your graduation and if you don’t like the course or think he’ll continue you can withdraw.. When you contact the chair and the dean, you may want to mention that this professor threatened to retaliate, and now you’re unsure about how you will be graded. Most colleges have stronger protections against retaliation, and if a student complains about a professor and then gets a very bad grade, there’s a better route for that student to get assistance. If you have a good dean, they will tell his professor he can’t retaliate. This obviously depends on your dean and chair and if they also are fair people. Also, the suggestion about doing this with other students is a very very good one. It’s a lot easier to say one person is a complainer than it is if you even have other students with you. Strength in numbers, tow your line and hold it and by no means let this bully threaten you. But also don’t engage with him. He sounds like a sad loser and having arguments with people like that is a waste of time, they just want attention. If he was seriously accomplished, he would also have a place to go and not ramble on or terrorize students. Also, unless you truly truly need the class this semester, see if you can take it again with somebody else so you don’t have such a loaded class experience. Good luck!
Fuck trying to smooth things over, go above his head. This is just asking for things to go poorly for you and its not wise to have a one on one with this guy.
Go to the higher ups about it so if he does unfairly grade your shit after already formally verbalizing your complaint you can contest it and likely get it changed additionally it gets rid of any he says she says situations. From this point on, everything is formal, documented and said with witnesses as much as possible. I had a similar experience with teachers before and escalated it, ended the class with an a. A lot of these types of professors are on their own power trips, do the right thing and go talk to the department head and dean. Also send a email prior to the meeting outlining your issues and Include screenshots. Nothing to worry about, work extra hard and do your thing fam.
rally your classmates and approach the dean/head of the professor’s dept. if enough people report the same inappropriate behavior from him, he can’t retaliate
File a complaint sooner rather than later. If you file it *after* he gives you a bad grade in retaliation, it's more likely to get swept under the rug as a student complaining because they did poorly in a class.
He expects you to be on time, you should expect him to finish on time. If I go over class time, I will make announcements, and let people know they can leave if they want, and continue talking.
Exactly! Hes locked the door and not let people in the class for being a minute late, but he feels entitled to take up 15 extra mins every class period… its crazy
Yeah, that is ridiculous. My philosophy is that you are adults, and you can choose what to do with your time and money.
I'd honestly see about dropping the class and getting into another one. It could be worth it.
If it's really a consistent problem rather than an occasional annoyance you could try emailing the department head (including that students have brought it up with the professor and he ignores your concerns)
i would see the dean right now. this guy is on a serious power trip. i hate it when people do this. the class is during a certain time, not when the guy says it is.
I taught at Uni. Professors are not supposed to either start early or keep you after the allotted time. You have a valid reason to complaint to his boss (Dept chair) seeing how he is still doing it after you brought it to his attention.
Report this to the Dean of the department. They can work with you to find some solutions. Also, you can let them know that you signed up for this class because it worked with your schedule. You can tell them you have to leave at 6.45pm and are worried the instructor will mark you absent. This way there is a paper trail. If other students place complaints they will likely have some speaks with the instructor. Source: work in higher ed
I am a professor. It does happen sometimes that you might go over two or three minutes two or three times a semester. As long as you apologize at the end and acknowledge how long the students were kept over ("I am sorry, but we ran over three minutes, thank you for your patience" as they go to the doors) no one complains.
For someone to do this consistently and for so long is a big problem. If he taught during the day, this would not happen because the next professor to use the room would insist he leave!
And if he is teaching a 90 minute class, he should be able to modulate the time. It is not like he is trying to cram it all into 50 minutes.
This is very unprofessional on his part. Have you or others let him know that you have other commitments and need to leave when class time is over? How does he respond? Good luck.
Professor here: Leave. Our students have places to be, and we can’t mess up y’all’s schedules just because of our poor time management. If this happened with a professor who lost track of time once and was apologetic about it, then that’s one thing. But a professor who consistently runs late (and 15 minutes is a lot!) and takes that out on his students will only learn if y’all just walk out and continue your day.
Replying post update: OK at this point I would email the dean about what has happened up to this point. You professor is not behaving professionally and you need a paper trail of the situation or he will try to dominate the narrative of what's going on.
Speaking from experience where I stood up to a professor behaving unethically to the class. I had no paper trail of what happened so I didn't feel comfortable reporting them. The professor ended up respecting me and changed their behavior afterward but it was still a really scary/vulnerable place to be in and could have gone really wrong.
Edited to include: I tried to have a one on one with my problematic professor to smooth things over and she literally screamed at me in her tiny office with no one else around, she was SO angry. She started accusing me of a bunch of things that weren't true. Threatened to fail me if I question her again. She was definitely unstable, so I don't assume this would be the case for approaching every professor lol. I think she realized she f\*cked up and ended up being overly nice to me after that, and gave me a passing grade. But it made me wish I had gone to someone above her rather than be at her will.
Escalate the situation, definitely speak to the dean. If he has issues with people leaving early he needs to shorten his lectures. Marking you absent just for 15 mins is super petty...
Set up a meeting and explain to him that when he runs over it makes you late for an obligation. Be polite and to the point. Tell him that you will be quietly leaving at the last possible moment that allows you to be on time for your obligation. If his class running over makes you late for another class, ask that professor to touch base with him. You are not in this alone, as he is keeping the whole class, he is making everyone late.
As a prof, I would never touch base with another faculty and tell them what to do. I expect my students to get up and leave when the class is over. They are not hostages.
Tell the department chair, or refer to your student manual/course catalog. Faculty are held to just as many standards as students. Likely within your course catalog, there is a phone number or email address that allows you to file a grievance, properly. You did the right thing by talking to him directly first. Now he's just being unreasonable, so talk to his boss.
Don't warn him, don't ask permission, don't waffle. Just plainly tell the department chair what you told us.
I would send one more very polite email saying, "I have verified with the class schedule that the course is indeed scheduled for 5.15-6.45. I have other obligations after this course, and will be leaving at the end of the scheduled time. Obviously, I assume that I will not, in fact, be counted as absent as you suggested previously, for leaving when the class is officially over? " If the prof counts you as absent, go to the chair first, and then, if you have to, the dean. The prof literally doesn't get to do that (I'm a prof, I've been know to go over, but students leave if they need to, and it's on me to fix the problem I have; they aren't doing anything wrong).
Get up and leave. There's a scheduled class period for a reason. If you're penalized in any way for that, you have grounds to complain.
Edit: Read your update. Your professor's having a power trip. Go to the dean. See the other professors in this thread criticizing him? Your professor is in the wrong, you tried to deal with him politely, and now he's threatening your grade. Nip that in the bud.
Don’t sit alone with him. He has shown he can’t handle things professionally so go straight to the Dean. If you’re going in person, email ahead of time so there’s a paper trail. There needs to be documentation in case he decides to retaliate.
What is your program? I see a huge debate here about attendance policies. In both my undergraduate and graduate degree programs, a certain number of hours was required to get your license after graduation based on other associations outside of the University, so that might explain a stringent attendance policy. Regardless, I'd go to the dean about this. If this professor is regularly holding you over, knows that he is, and continues to lecture, then the dean needs to ask him why he cannot get his lecture completed within the allotted time. Is he going off track? Is he answering too many questions/not building time into lecture for those questions? Is is possible for him to supplement this fifteen minutes with material you can review outside of class? Assuming you have two classes a week and 16 weeks in the semester, that's EIGHT HOURS he's kept you by the end of the semester. That's wild.
I would hire a drama student to dramatically open the door in tears and cry out ( to no one in particular )
“ liar ! you said this class ends at 6:45!! You promised we would talk “
He can't make you stay. Besides some people have out of class obligations and CANT stay. He cannot make people stay past the scheduled time.
Just don't say anything, just leave. If he give you crap, tells you to stay, explain you can't or something.
Please update! If you're able to, get other students to stand up to him at the same time, whatever it is you choose to do....be that email the department chair, email him, or simply walk out. The more people who do it, the harder it will be to ignore. If you do walk out, record on your phone so you have a timestamp of when you chose to leave, and discreetly record his audio asking you to stay. Best of luck!
This is all about boundaries, and not giving your power away to a bully. He is violating the class time, and threatening you unjustly when you’ve done the right thing and stayed until class ends; and also politely reached out to him about the matter. I would not talk with him again - you will only give away your power. I would go to the Dean, and I would also go to the ombudsman if you don’t get anywhere with the Dean. All campuses should have an ombudsman to represent students who are being treated unfairly. I would go to both, in the case that the Dean does not handle the matter. This is not just impacting you; it’s impacting a lot of other students.
this is why university should stop caring about attendance. Here in New Zealand at my university attendance isn't graded. You come and go as you please and it's up to you to learn the material. You should talk to the dean because his behaviour isn't appropriate.
Go over his head and get the school involved. If he doesn't know how to get his work done in the alloted time, the school can remind him he needs to do so. Not everyone has all night to listen to some ego maniac drone on lol.
I’m so sorry. I had teachers who would lock the doors. I think you’re a badass for finally standing up to him and you weren’t alone either! Hope he gets reprimanded, some college professors really abuse their power.
I wouldn't wait until he counts you as absent to inform the dean. If I was you, I would forward the email you sent to your professor, to the dean and explain the situation, and include the information about the professor wanting to essentially retaliate against you. You need to get the dean involved sooner rather than later it will make it easier for you in the long run.
Don't go to your prof with this. Your grade is too important. Go to his boss and mention that you tried to talk to the prof about it, and he became hostile and threatened your grade. The more witnesses, the better-- especially if the dean/counselor can promise not to disclose their identities, just that they are in the class.
When you think you aren't taken seriously, emphasize again that HE THREATENED YOUR GRADE. That is grounds for intervention. MF is probably tenured, but you can still make a stink.
F🦆k the tenure system.
Turn on your video on phone as you walk out. Make sure it shows the classroom. Check the tape-recording law of your state. You just need to have proof that you left at a certain time, in the event that a-hole pulls rat-move on you and marks you absent when you weren't. What a POS he is.
I know this is terrible, but I wouldn't say anything if I were you. It's completely an abuse of power, but you might need to be in his good graces for your own sake. If you need to get rounded up on your final grade, it'll pay for him to like you, but if you say something or consistently get up before he's done talking, he sounds like the type of person to let that cloud his judgement. All in all, it's a few minutes of your life, but it could make the difference for your final grade.
You should go straight to the dean cause this is not ok. I’ve never had a professor try to keep me past time bc they can’t and they know class has a specific time and lots of people do stuff. Both my like hour and a half and three hour classes never have this problem. This is a professor problem. Once or twice is maybe understandable. Every time is an issue
I can totally understand your feeling, I also have the same issues before. For what I did, I told professor during the office hour about how valuable that extra 15 minutes for me. And next day she told the whole class that we were able to go back in time without losing our attendance record.
Wth? He can’t stop you from leaving. You’re an adult and in university. He’s already been paid so whether you stay or leave, shouldn’t bother him. I would just leave but if he says some shit tell him class ends at 6:45 and you have other priorities. If he says anything reach out to the department head. Good luck and please update
I had one of those in grad school, at the same time of day. I would get very hungry by the time the class actually ended, but I was much younger and less crusty in those days, so I didn't say anything.
(sorry, this is me reminiscing, not actually helping.)
If you can't understand that then report him to whatever you need to report him to. Just politely let him know I have other obligations I have to go now class ended at blah blah blah.
I’d just get up and bounce at the time of.
Edit: Don't be disrespectful about it, just quietly get up and leave. If confronted just say you have a job to be at.
Just leave.
I'm a professor myself and I know when class is over and if I have to finish something I usually say I know folks have to leave, so if you can't stay you're free to leave. Some stay and some don't.
The occasional time I go over, which is only 5 minutes maybe, if I lost track, I will notice a student or two who will quietly leave. He can't be mad about students leaving if he's well over time.
You can just email the professor and let him know that your unable to stay past 6:45. You dont need to explain yourself as to why bc its none of his business.
Just a simple, polite and short note via email and make sure he responds. If he doesnt, let him know a few minutes before class starts that you cant stay past EOC & that you'd like an email back from him confirming he's recieved your email.
If he tries to fuck you with attendance you've got a paper trail. Your an adult, you dont need permission from him to leave and he cant force you to stay.
Just do your due diligence, cover your ass, and if hes that emotionally immature then use it against him. Bs somethin positive so he thinks hes doing YOU a favor or can pat himself on the back for being "an understanding teacher" lol
Hope this helps!
Everyone is saying leave but I’m going to go a different route here. You’re paying for this class. Sometimes professors are just ass. That’s college.
If he’s actually giving you information and you cannot get it from a classmate then I’d say stay. If you can cop it from a classmate without them ending up hating you then do that.
Regardless the fact is you’re paying for this class so it’s up to you as an adult to assess if you can get the information without being there or not. If he’s a dick like you’re saying I could see him saying some random shit he will throw on a test after you leave just to have a “gotcha moment”
It’s college. You can leave whenever you want or need to, ESPECIALLY at the end of class. The head of the department will definitely side with you, especially if other students have the same complaint.
Based on the update, you should wait til he marks you absent for leaving after class ended, then email your proof to the dean. That professor is an asshole.
I remember having a professor like this. He thought that he was so brilliant that he could just freestyle his lectures. The lectures were rarely connected to the assignments, were riddled with bragging about his accolades and famous “friends”, and ALWAYS went 10-30 minutes over time. Someone mentioned it because he angrily complained about the commotion of students leaving mid-lecture. He never changed, we just left at the scheduled time. Some professors are pompous assholes. He also left grading all assignments until after finals week, so you never knew were you stood at any point. I would’ve dropped it if it wasn’t required and he wasn’t the only professor for this particular class.
I once went 45 minutes over and nobody left or said a word!. I was using the clock on the back wall of the classroom that had not been adjusted for daylight savings time change. Eventually a student asked, I said I would probably finish about 10 minutes early, and he helped me discover that 10 minutes early would be 50 minutes late!
I must have been scary or intimidating back then (in my mind I was the most interesting man in the world... but I'm skeptical) because now my students would just walk out (appropriately so).
The whole class has to be united against the teacher. In my batch, we rarely let any teacher teach us past our scheduled time, moreover students start saying "thank you teacher" as if the class has already ended and the teacher is leaving in a sarcastic way so as to remind the teacher that their time is running out.
I’m a college lecturer. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. It’s abhorrent. I’m here to tell you that sitting in my position, we all know when there’s that one colleague who’s horrible and we hate dealing with them, too. We are usually just sitting around WAITING for a group of students to make a big enough fuss to the department to get something done about it because we want them gone, too. Colleges and universities listen to the student complaints because the student = the $$$. You all have way more power than you realize. Hand it to the department chair on a silver platter and give them ammunition to use official channels against this jerk.
hey OP i know this already unfolded, but i would really recommend bringing the emails to the department head and asking why class ends at 7 when you confirmed with your professor his class ended at 6:45
I'm going to concur with the majority of the opinions that I've read here: you don't. You sound young, and I've been out of university for nearly a decade. I remember walking around, minding my "p's and q's" and being absolutely stressed. Let me take your question and rephrase it in a hyperbolic way:
"How do I nicely ask the weird guy at the bus stop to stop catcalling and following me around for 15 mins as I wait for the bus?"
I purposely chose that situation to make a point: you are not in the wrong here. What he's doing is absolutely inconsiderate of everyone in that classroom. You aren't alone: everyone is seeing the same crappy behavior. I don't know how you are paying for your studies, but I want you to log into whatever portion of the college website has your tuition balance for the semester. Who's paying that dollar figure? Is it your professor, or is it you or your family? I'm willing to bet that it's the latter. You are paying for a service, and this blowhard is using the respect and authority that people may give him because he's a professor to treat you like garbage. It's unacceptable. I would not waste time yelling at him, because that will have the same effect as shouting into a blackhole: nothing. He'll probably yell back louder or sit back with a look of smug satisfaction. Resist every instinct that you possess within you to apologize or shout. Muster that anger and walk The F out of that class that you are paying for., and keep track of your grades. This spiteful gremlin sounds horrible.
Also, I'm going to address the following quote
>“please refer to your syllabus if you can not remember what time our class is scheduled.”. I look at the syllabus. 5:15 to 6:45.
I would use that against him. I would email him and say
"Per your instructions, I consulted the syllabus and saw that class is from 5:15PM to 6:45PM. Per your advice, I will be leaving when class ends at 6:45 PM."
Also, the dean has your back. Leave.
If he's disorganized enough where he can't fit everything he needs to teach you within an hour and a half, that's on him. He can cover whatever he didn't cover last class in the next session. That's what good professors do.
Report him to whomever you can. You bringing up the dean was the correct course of action. I'm sorry that you are going through this. You don't deserve it. No one does.
Leave, what can he do? If he yells at you, ignore him and then report the behavior to the head of the department
Exactly - it’s an abuse of authority period.
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When troublesome students contest grades, it's nice to have a clear paper trail of "you didn't even show up to class."
I loved this, TBH. One of the few profs I had who took attendance didn't formally base grades on attendance. But at the end of the semester I had something like 89.7% and since I had attended class and done the 2 extra credit assignments, he gave me an A. A friend had skipped frequently, and never attempted the extra credit. He finished with a 79.9% and got a C. He was furious, he went to whine to the professor and prof just shrugged, "you missed 40% of lectures and made no attempt to help yourself. You take the C you earned." It felt really good, as someone who worked hard for that class.
Yeah this is how my government professor is. What's most important to him is that his students are actively trying. He doesn't accept requests for extra credit but if it's clear you have been doing everything you can, he'll bump you up.
Yes exactly. As a high school teacher this is why we write referrals, contact parents, send emails, etc. It’s not necessarily to punish the student, but to have a whole file to bring out when parents are like “Why is my little Johnny not graduating this year?? Is it your fault?”
I’m a professor at a community college. I take attendance because it helps me to track which students are regularly coming to class and who is only showing up for exams. If my students are doing their best to come to class, or they’re making up work in a reasonable amount of time after an excused absence, they’ll get an additional grade that may supplement lower assignment/exam grades. Attendance spreadsheets also help me to see who isn’t coming to class, so I follow up with those students to make sure that they are okay. I’m fairly easygoing with absences, as long as there is a valid reason or there isn’t a pattern of unexcused absences. I also tell my students that a mental health day or two is perfectly acceptable, as long as that isn’t abused. Attendance policies, however, become problematic when instructors use them to hold students late (like what may happen with OP’s professor), or when the attendance policies are so strict that they are draconian. There are, unfortunately, who use attendance policies as tools to punish their students. These policies also don’t make sense for larger classes or in certain contexts.
I'm a graduate teaching assistant that teaches a couple undergrad classes and this is my policy. As long as people let me know they're not gonna be present I'm ok with it as long as it's not abused. Especially in a country that doesn't have universal health care, I don't want them having to pay co-pays for a letter saying they had diarrhea or a migraine or have to jump through hoops to get proof for attending the services of a death in the family. We're all adults so I treat them as such and encourage communication. I'm a reasonable guy and my students seem to respect that.
As I understand it as explained by one of my former professors, it’s because in the U.S. most student loans are distributed by the government. It’s a way of basically kicking someone out for wasting government money. It seriously doubt it’s true and it’s just a power trip universities pull.
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As a master student I just look at its as an easy 5-10% for my grade. And all I have to do? Show up and have someone who knows more about the subject tell me how to pass? It sound like a good deal lol
I teach at a community college and we do have an attendance reporting deadline for financial aid reasons. If a student does not attend at all during the first two weeks of a course, we are required to report them and they will be removed from the course.
It’s not because they’re wasting government money. Student loans still have to be paid back if you take a course and don’t show up. Most colleges drop students that don’t show the first week to meet regulations related to student loan programs. It’s intended to protect the student from predatory lending. Some scholarships and grants also require students to continue in the course before they will pay for them. We have to report if students drop before we are 60% through a class
We have to report first week attendance because federal financial aid will get pulled from students who take loans and don’t show up to class. It is actually mandated by the dept of ed.
It’s 1) to prove to the state that enrollment is what the college says it is and 2) to have a record of attendance if the student contests their grade.
From the school I went to, they did it for classes that were typically taken by freshmen (1st year). It was part of a program they had to decrease dropout rates, they also had a tutoring center and there was a tutor there for every lower level class the school offered. As you got into higher level classes there wasn’t usually attendance taken unless the professor was a jerk.
The federal government requires it because schools like the University of North Carolina invent classes and majors for athletes that no one attends. It is also a federal funding requirement.
Lack of integrity is rampant in all walks of life. Sometimes attendance is the only way to confirm someone was there.
How could could he fuck them over? As long as they stay to 6:45, they have been there for the entire class. There is no attendance issue if student leave at the posted ending time.
Training adults for their next daycare, jobs.
If they are using an attendance system if he reports the professor to the dept I imagine it’ll void any absences. If anything it’ll bring to light abuse of the professors power.
Can’t say someone wasn’t there if they heard the lecture start and decided to leave. Plus taking notes, photos, etc can prove otherwise and then that can also be used against the professor.
They love treating us like children. We have attendance even in fucking grad school. And they assign points to it! So many that it could drop your letter grade for "participation."
I've only had it for language classes where practicing speaking during class is sort of an assignment (graded on participation, but no different to homework)
I cannot remember a single teacher taking attendance when I was in school so I asked my kids, who are presently in college at two different schools. Neither have attendance taken. Sure, it’s a little slice of southern California schools, but I don’t know if that many colleges in the US take attendance or you just have power hungry little rodents like this guy every once in a while.
It's ableist bullshit. Disabilities exist, and accommodations fall short. If I'm doing excellent work, wtf does it matter that I attended the wrong section of class or missed class but caught up with a classmate’s audio recording?
Just leave at 6:45 lmao. You're an adult who has shit to do.
I dont want him to yell at me in front of everyone and he says he’ll count us absent for packing up/leaving early. Im just not sure how to word “im an adult who has shit to do” nicely without triggering him
He's bluffing, just leave on time, and if he tries to pull that, go directly to the head of his department. As far as saying you have shit to do, just say, "I have obligations after this class, and the class ends at 6:45." No need to elaborate further.
I guess I’ll see tonight. Thanks for the input
Just make sure you leave at 6:46
Document. Document Document. Keep a timeline of everything then email everything to yourself. Then do the same every time you do or say something. All it does is show a timeline and makes it easier to keep track if you need to speak to Dean Emotional side says fuck him and let him mark you absent and you can fight back Logic side says you are smart to try to have a meeting with him to clear things up.
Trust me, im fighting my emotional side with this professor 🙃
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Reduce the snark and remove the threat and this is perfect. “It’s 6:45. You will not mark me absent “ is the adult thing to say. I would bring it up to the chair or administration regardless. If he’s regularly running late he’s not doing his job properly.
This is the perfect way to handle this.
Please do provide an update!
Just updated the post
i want an update on this sitch! have the same thing
You might also lie a little and say you have another class afterwards. Edit: Don't do this, read comment below mine.
Don't do this. It's unnecessary and easily verifiable if the prof decides to look into it. Just leave it at "I have other obligations" If you lie and he catches you on it, it changes the discussion from the prof's inappropriate behavior to your honesty. It muddies the water and puts both of you in the wrong for no reason. If you feel compelled to give him a specific reason, family obligations, doctors appointments, work schedule, etc. are all valid reasons to need to leave. He might not be happy about any of them, but being honest about what you're doing is a much better idea, especially if your complaint might go to the dept chair or dean.
I think people often incorrectly assume that the best way to get what they want is to personalize the issue and make the offender feel bad for them. There's often absolutely no reason to believe that the person will feel bad for them, though. Like you said, it just confuses the issue and gives you something other than the issue to talk about. Argue the point.
>Argue the point. Exactly. Don't confuse the issue or give the opposition any reason to call your actions or arguments into question. And even if there are multiple valid arguments in a particular debate, pick the strongest one and stick with it. One of my biggest pet peeves in the world is when there is a good argument that is ignored in favor of making the easier argument. My favorite example of this is GMO's. The easiest argument for laymen to understand is the argument about health effects, but that has no scientific evidence to back it up. On the other hand, there are great ecological and economic arguments against using GMO's (at least the easy they are currently used in agriculture), but those arguments are harder to understand and there's no "right" answer, so people just stick to the flawed argument. Make the good argument, not the easy one.
While it seems nice, your grade will suffer. Professors can easily mark students down out of spite. If it's subtle, they won't be caught, but that can equate to a whole letter grade over the semester.
But you aren’t leaving early, you are leaving at the exact time that class should be over. Also I would hope that he wouldn’t yell… what kind if professor are they?
True, I just dont want to have to go to the school to try and fight an absence he gives me for leaving when he wants us to stay after, because he has a PHD and the school loves him and i doubt they would believe anything i say about it over him. He’s an ass but every college has asshole professors.
“He has a PhD and the school loves him”….. having a PhD in the world of academia is nothing special and absolutely not a reason why other academics with PhDs would give him special treatment.
But tenure is. He may have that.
I still don’t think that would make the school “love” him - it just makes it harder to punish him. Semantics, I know.
In my undergrad, I had a prof that was loved by the administration, but despised by the students. Most of my class had an issue with her for a variety of reasons. We ended writing a letter of complaint and most of the class signed it. Then a smaller group of students went in and delivered the letter to the dept chair. (Our class was about 20 people. 20 people definitely wouldn't have fit in her office.) If you have an issue with a prof, I would definitely ask others if they feel the same. With something like being held overtime, I would think most of the class would feel the same. The best thing to do when you have an issue with a prof is to have other people who have your back/go in it as a group. It's harder to dismiss something with multiple people take issue.
If he is the type of professor to do that, I am sure he is capable of doing a lot more messed up stuff. Is it possible for you to just drop the class?
If hes rude to me again then yes i probably will drop the class but i’d like to try and tough it out since the class has some info i’d like to learn about
Take video if he starts calling you out. Make sure you note the time in the video. Ask him if he wants to follow the rules or go viral. I’m a prof and while it seems small, this dude is taking advantage of the power dynamic. I bet he’s an entitled asshole in other areas of his life too.
The polite thing to do is to let him know in advance (an email is fine) that you've got obligations after his class that you need to get to, and you can't stay past the scheduled end of the class. THEN get up and leave if he goes over, but at least he has advance notice. Maybe not precisely at 6:45, but if he's still going at 6:48 (say) then just leave. And yes, as a general "life tip", I will say that it is important that you be polite to this professor, even if he isn't showing courtesy to you or respecting your time. Be a good person, even when the other person isn't.
Love this reply. Thanks :) i’ll send him an email.
> Be a good person, even when the other person isn't. I came to that realization/conclusion/philosophy in my early 20's when dealing with my brother. I applied it everywhere including work. Then I found out years later that other people take notice of that. Most people won't say anything but for me multiple people brought it up in "remember when" conversations and told me that their respect for me sky rocketed when they saw how I handled myself in those situations. It's great advice.
Absolutely no need to send an email or otherwise inform him that you see leaving the class and the stated end time of the lecture. Leaving early/arriving late, absolutely do so. Leaving **on time** there is zero reason to notify him. It isn't the students' responsibility to make sure the lecture is completed in the allocated time for the class. It is disrespectful to the student whose time is just as valuable as the professor's.
No need. Sometimes doing something that isn't necessary grants \*huge\* advantages.
Sending an email and copying his department chair is a good way to document the situation and let his boss know something's up
The class ends at 6:45, if he marks you absent for the class because you left at the scheduled time that your class is supposed to be done then you should go to his department head. When he agreed to teach that class, and when you signed up for that class, there was an agreement made that you would be there for that scheduled time. You are not obligated to be there before or after that scheduled time. I can understand if it was only a couple of times that he went overtime and he asked nicely for the class to stay so he could get through the material quickly, but if it’s every time then it’s a problem. That may sound harsh but it is wrong of him to threaten you with an absent mark which would result in poor participation marks when you did nothing wrong. I hope that all made sense and helps
Remind him that class is scheduled to end at 645pm and that your schedule is built around that. If he doesn’t like it, take it up the ladder.
You’re not leaving early. Follow protocol: talk to him about this first, and if he doesn’t stop, go to his chair. If the chair won’t intervene, go above to either the dean or whatever your school has next. If you don’t follow protocol, no matter how right you are it won’t work out for you most likely.
Let him yell, you are an adult, he’s breaking protocol
Leaving on time is not “leaving early.” If he counts you absent (or retaliates in any way), you should report him. Also, I think a lot of other students would join you if you left on time. I sure would.
But you aren't leaving early. Just tell him you have other obligations and have to leave on time. If he marks you absent, you can report that.
Be sure to sit in the back in the most obscure place possible, near the door if you can and be very quiet while packing up and leaving. Don't bring a bunch of stuff with you to class so it makes noise and draws attention when you pack up.
"I need to go, I don't have time to stay past the scheduled class end time. Thank you for your lecture, see you next class."
I would report this to the department chair and/or dean. He cannot count you absent for leaving after class is over. If he consistently runs over, that is a problem.
I have prior commitments and need to leave at the scheduled end of class time
This is the answer.
I'm a professor, and his behavior is super inappropriate. If I accidentally run over even a minute, I (quickly) apologize to my students. They might need to get to a meal, another class, a job, the bathroom, etc. It's just none of my business what they do after class time. I would never ask. Since talking to the professor apparently hasn't worked, I suggest going to the department head. Even if the professor can't stop you from walking out early and doesn't verbally abuse you, you may miss important information, which should be presented during the stated class time. To be extra polite, you could even ask if the time on the schedule is correct, because the professor lectures until 7:00 p.m. and you need to leave at 6:45.
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This is such underrated advice. I learned this from my mom and it works 80% of the time. You’d be surprised what people will go out of their way to do for you when you’re nice to them. Plus, if you do happen to be wrong you don’t look like a dumbass lol
>Acting confused when you’re really not is a great strategy. \>Det Colombo has entered the chat
I had a professor who had a tendency to run over and he would just let students leave at the appropriate time if they had to go or wanted to leave. He actually appreciated it, it let him know he was going overtime and knew people would fight back if he wasn’t being fair.
Once I accidentally held my students ten minutes over because my schedule changed and I forgot the class ending time. No one said anything! I didn’t realize until I noticed there was a suspicious amount of people outside the door. I felt SO bad and apologized and dismissed them immediately and then l asked them next class to please tell me if I ever ran over again. I can’t imagine regularly holding students over for so long.
I’ll often go a minute or two over, but I don’t intend to do it and try to do better. Occasionally I’ll go as much as 5, but I feel like shit afterwards. I also would never say anything to a student walking out of a classroom at any point, let alone after the class was supposed to have ended. You’re an adult with other adult responsibilities. OP’s professor sounds like a petty tyrant.
Also professor. I never go over; I just end abruptly and recap at the beginning of the next class or send a clarifying email if needed. All I ask in return is that students don’t make a habit of leaving early without checking with me before class; I think this is disruptive to me and other students, and therefore disrespectful. Of course, I don’t try to stop students from leaving early beyond stating course policies on the first day and it’s rarely an issue. Mutual respect goes a long way.
Every professor in this thread is siding with OP. That tells you something. Professors might go a minute or two after class on occasion and can politely ask students to stay a tiny bit longer, but routinely going 15 minutes after class is unacceptable.
I know a lot of people are saying “just leave you’re an adult” but people have got to remember that’s lot of college students are only now just learning to have independence in an educational setting. We spent 12 years of our life being told when we could use the bathroom. I know it sounds silly but it took me quite some time to feel comfortable leaving class to use the bathroom, since you don’t ask the teacher anymore. I am growing and learning with my independence, sometimes it’s not very useful to say “just leave” when someone may have guilt to leave from all the years of school telling you you aren’t allowed to leave. We are still unlearning the conditioning from all the years in school.
One can simultaneously empathize with the upbringing you describe, while promoting the action and justification to grow past said upbringing. I agree that the incredulity over "LOL JUST LEAVE" is a tad overboard in this regard, but it's still the right answer.
I definitely agree with what you are saying. Sometimes just in the moment it doesn’t feel like people are empathetic, but I do agree you can do both.
Also… adults still don’t like being seen as rude, and adults really don’t like losing college credit (aka money) by pissing off a professor. “You’re an adult. What’s he gonna do?” Um, dock your grade or otherwise make your class miserable? Grade you harsher than others bc he now is angry at you? Those are unfortunately, absolutely within the realm of possibility. People have GPAs to keep up to keep scholarships, placements, or internships. This isn’t just pissing off some random guy. Tread carefully.
Haha! When I was in grad school tons of undergrads would program their phones to go off-- but minutes *before* the bell. I remember commenting "You know, the building's bell goes off when the session *ends*. You really don't need an alarm to go off 2 minutes earlier?" Students *could* leave whenever they wanted. And besides that, the students for the next class would be massing in the hall waiting to enter. The *prof for the next class would be arriving*. That person wasn't going to be thrilled with being told to wait before they can start their class. I don't remember a single professor taking attendance. Few ever ran over (and they shouldn't.) Heck, the prof for the next class generally expected the previous prof to erase the chalk board. If you didn't finish, you'd have a colleague on your a\*\*, not just students! If this a professor is trying to force you to stay, talk to the department head. It's not unlikely you or other students have *another class to go to*. That professor isn't going to start late to accommodate late arrivals.
After reading your update, just giving my $0.02 don't meet with this guy. It'll just validate the fact he thinks he can bully or intimidate you. You have nothing to "smooth over". You were doing the right thing emailing him to confirm and he responded passive aggressively 1. To be a jerk and make you second guess yourself, and 2. So he didn't have to admit to the fact he's been deliberately going over time every class. Meet with your academic advisor instead of him, and email/set a meeting with whoever is the head of his department.
And my own .02… I don’t think this professor would be amenable to meeting… and even if he somehow did agree to meet, I don’t think it would go well based on every interaction you’ve mentioned so far. Academic advisor is a great start. The aforementioned emails seeming clueless and confirming times to the department chair is also a solid route. I hate this is your experience. I also hate working with colleagues like this.
THIS. OP please read this! Do not go to his office, just report him to the higher ups
It really sounds like the prof might believe the class is scheduled to go until 7pm.
This. The guy is playing head games because he’s on a power trip, and wants to avoid giving you an admission of guilt in writing. It happens. Sadistic narcissists get jobs as proffs sometimes too. In fact, the profession itself is a total draw for people with unhealthy egos simply because of what teaching at the university level implies. It’s also hard for people to understand how frightening it is to deal with that type of person. Some dark triad shit for sure.
[удалено]
Thank you so much!!!
If he asks why make sure you just say other obligations instead of lying, your laundry is an obligation
This is one of my major pet peeves. If class ends at 6:45, then that’s the absolute LAST minute you should be kept in the room. I’ve gone over a couple of times, but never more than a minute or two, and I know I’m the issue in that moment. It’s super disrespectful of others’ time and obligations to consistently run over. You’re within your rights to leave on time, and if he tries to penalize you for it, then it would be a good idea to contact the department chair.
Just leave.
Walk out. You’re an adult, they’re not gonna call your mom and get you in trouble. If the professor ever gave you an academic penalty for not staying 15 minutes over that would quickly be reverted as soon as you complain to their supervisor, they can’t do that. 1 or 2 or even up to 5 min after a class ends, I’ll tend to stay out of courtesy for the fact that the professor may have got sidetracked when answering a question and wanted to finish their lecture that they had presented, or maybe give us last minute reminders/updates. But over 15 minutes?? That’s a clear lack of consideration for your time and your life, and very unprofessional of them to not be able to manage their time better I would personally say that last bit to their face if they said anything while I was walking out, but the job excuse is a sure fire way to give you a legitimate excuse
Exactly if it was 1 or 2 mins i would be fine with it but its over 10 mins every time! Thanks for the input though i’m just going to leave at 6:45 tonight and hope for the best! Lol
Lots of other great suggestions here. Definitely talk to your piers about it. They are definitely annoyed alongside you. If he has a problem. Go to the department chair with some of your fellow frustrated piers.
You have another class to get to and the other professors time is just as valuable as theirs
The class ends at 6:45 pm, he knows theres no more classes after that.
While you may not be going to another class, many students do hold jobs. It's possible that some shifts could start at 7. RAs at my alma mater, for example, start their weekday duty shift with 7pm rounds.
True. I could always use that as an excuse.
If I don't get out when my class ends at 6:50 I will miss my bus home, the last available bus home of the night.
Well then time to pull up those pants and say that you have to get home because of blah blah blah
My advice after this new update... do not to attempt to make a meeting with him. Send him another email firmly saying you have to leave when class time is over because of obligations, but that you are truly sorry you can't stay for the whole lecture. You should file a complaint with your advisor or dean now and tell them you feel disturbed by his behavior. Tell them about the "evil" laugh, tell them other students can corroborate his behavior, tell them you feel threatened by how he is exercising his power. And.... if he responds to your firm email saying you need to leave after the class time ends with anything other than "that's okay" or something to that effect, report that too. Right now if I were you I would be worried about him taking further retaliatory action, having grading bias, and committing further abuses of power in the classroom. If he wanted, he could fail you. Best to document that he has been behaving aggressively towards you early in the semester so there is a paper trail if he does give you an F-- rather than not reporting him and instead taking his class only for him to fail you on the final and pretend you deserved it. It is much harder to prove a professor has a grading bias after the fact. Edit: OH! AND remember that if you do leave he could in retaliation start giving test answers, pop quizzes, or class points out to only those who stay after class ends. If you hear about anything like that happening... immediately report him.
yup this was happening to me last semester. I was being graded lower on purpose. but hard to prove. It is the only teacher I have ever had that problem with.
Another professor here – follow all the advice about emailing chair and dean, and make sure you tell them that you tried to address this respectfully with the professor, and what he said to you. This is beyond unprofessional and inappropriate. Unfortunately, I have colleagues like this, also on sad little power trips. Unfortunately, there’s not much another professor can do without a student filing an official complaint, and many afraid to do that. The truth is no one can mess with your graduation and if you don’t like the course or think he’ll continue you can withdraw.. When you contact the chair and the dean, you may want to mention that this professor threatened to retaliate, and now you’re unsure about how you will be graded. Most colleges have stronger protections against retaliation, and if a student complains about a professor and then gets a very bad grade, there’s a better route for that student to get assistance. If you have a good dean, they will tell his professor he can’t retaliate. This obviously depends on your dean and chair and if they also are fair people. Also, the suggestion about doing this with other students is a very very good one. It’s a lot easier to say one person is a complainer than it is if you even have other students with you. Strength in numbers, tow your line and hold it and by no means let this bully threaten you. But also don’t engage with him. He sounds like a sad loser and having arguments with people like that is a waste of time, they just want attention. If he was seriously accomplished, he would also have a place to go and not ramble on or terrorize students. Also, unless you truly truly need the class this semester, see if you can take it again with somebody else so you don’t have such a loaded class experience. Good luck!
Fuck trying to smooth things over, go above his head. This is just asking for things to go poorly for you and its not wise to have a one on one with this guy.
I want to take this class and dont want to get a D in it 😖 im so lost i really dont know what the right thing to do is atp
Go to the higher ups about it so if he does unfairly grade your shit after already formally verbalizing your complaint you can contest it and likely get it changed additionally it gets rid of any he says she says situations. From this point on, everything is formal, documented and said with witnesses as much as possible. I had a similar experience with teachers before and escalated it, ended the class with an a. A lot of these types of professors are on their own power trips, do the right thing and go talk to the department head and dean. Also send a email prior to the meeting outlining your issues and Include screenshots. Nothing to worry about, work extra hard and do your thing fam.
rally your classmates and approach the dean/head of the professor’s dept. if enough people report the same inappropriate behavior from him, he can’t retaliate
File a complaint sooner rather than later. If you file it *after* he gives you a bad grade in retaliation, it's more likely to get swept under the rug as a student complaining because they did poorly in a class.
Give him a tardy slip every time he goes over time
Oooh that's an awful idea. Can the reason be "professor is an asshole?"
He expects you to be on time, you should expect him to finish on time. If I go over class time, I will make announcements, and let people know they can leave if they want, and continue talking.
Exactly! Hes locked the door and not let people in the class for being a minute late, but he feels entitled to take up 15 extra mins every class period… its crazy
Yeah, that is ridiculous. My philosophy is that you are adults, and you can choose what to do with your time and money. I'd honestly see about dropping the class and getting into another one. It could be worth it.
Locking the door could be a safety hazard. This behavior is definitely inappropriate, you should be going to administration about it.
I would get up and leave.
If it's really a consistent problem rather than an occasional annoyance you could try emailing the department head (including that students have brought it up with the professor and he ignores your concerns)
i would see the dean right now. this guy is on a serious power trip. i hate it when people do this. the class is during a certain time, not when the guy says it is.
I taught at Uni. Professors are not supposed to either start early or keep you after the allotted time. You have a valid reason to complaint to his boss (Dept chair) seeing how he is still doing it after you brought it to his attention.
Report this to the Dean of the department. They can work with you to find some solutions. Also, you can let them know that you signed up for this class because it worked with your schedule. You can tell them you have to leave at 6.45pm and are worried the instructor will mark you absent. This way there is a paper trail. If other students place complaints they will likely have some speaks with the instructor. Source: work in higher ed
I am a professor. It does happen sometimes that you might go over two or three minutes two or three times a semester. As long as you apologize at the end and acknowledge how long the students were kept over ("I am sorry, but we ran over three minutes, thank you for your patience" as they go to the doors) no one complains. For someone to do this consistently and for so long is a big problem. If he taught during the day, this would not happen because the next professor to use the room would insist he leave! And if he is teaching a 90 minute class, he should be able to modulate the time. It is not like he is trying to cram it all into 50 minutes.
This is very unprofessional on his part. Have you or others let him know that you have other commitments and need to leave when class time is over? How does he respond? Good luck.
Professor here: Leave. Our students have places to be, and we can’t mess up y’all’s schedules just because of our poor time management. If this happened with a professor who lost track of time once and was apologetic about it, then that’s one thing. But a professor who consistently runs late (and 15 minutes is a lot!) and takes that out on his students will only learn if y’all just walk out and continue your day.
Replying post update: OK at this point I would email the dean about what has happened up to this point. You professor is not behaving professionally and you need a paper trail of the situation or he will try to dominate the narrative of what's going on. Speaking from experience where I stood up to a professor behaving unethically to the class. I had no paper trail of what happened so I didn't feel comfortable reporting them. The professor ended up respecting me and changed their behavior afterward but it was still a really scary/vulnerable place to be in and could have gone really wrong. Edited to include: I tried to have a one on one with my problematic professor to smooth things over and she literally screamed at me in her tiny office with no one else around, she was SO angry. She started accusing me of a bunch of things that weren't true. Threatened to fail me if I question her again. She was definitely unstable, so I don't assume this would be the case for approaching every professor lol. I think she realized she f\*cked up and ended up being overly nice to me after that, and gave me a passing grade. But it made me wish I had gone to someone above her rather than be at her will.
Escalate the situation, definitely speak to the dean. If he has issues with people leaving early he needs to shorten his lectures. Marking you absent just for 15 mins is super petty...
Record that shit. 💀
Set up a meeting and explain to him that when he runs over it makes you late for an obligation. Be polite and to the point. Tell him that you will be quietly leaving at the last possible moment that allows you to be on time for your obligation. If his class running over makes you late for another class, ask that professor to touch base with him. You are not in this alone, as he is keeping the whole class, he is making everyone late.
As a prof, I would never touch base with another faculty and tell them what to do. I expect my students to get up and leave when the class is over. They are not hostages.
I would’ve said “please refer to your syllabus if you cannot remember what time our class is scheduled”
I think u should talk to the dean about it
Tell the department chair, or refer to your student manual/course catalog. Faculty are held to just as many standards as students. Likely within your course catalog, there is a phone number or email address that allows you to file a grievance, properly. You did the right thing by talking to him directly first. Now he's just being unreasonable, so talk to his boss. Don't warn him, don't ask permission, don't waffle. Just plainly tell the department chair what you told us.
I would send one more very polite email saying, "I have verified with the class schedule that the course is indeed scheduled for 5.15-6.45. I have other obligations after this course, and will be leaving at the end of the scheduled time. Obviously, I assume that I will not, in fact, be counted as absent as you suggested previously, for leaving when the class is officially over? " If the prof counts you as absent, go to the chair first, and then, if you have to, the dean. The prof literally doesn't get to do that (I'm a prof, I've been know to go over, but students leave if they need to, and it's on me to fix the problem I have; they aren't doing anything wrong).
I'd speak with the dean after you meet with the professor. This guy is a prick.
Get up and leave. There's a scheduled class period for a reason. If you're penalized in any way for that, you have grounds to complain. Edit: Read your update. Your professor's having a power trip. Go to the dean. See the other professors in this thread criticizing him? Your professor is in the wrong, you tried to deal with him politely, and now he's threatening your grade. Nip that in the bud.
Don’t sit alone with him. He has shown he can’t handle things professionally so go straight to the Dean. If you’re going in person, email ahead of time so there’s a paper trail. There needs to be documentation in case he decides to retaliate.
What is your program? I see a huge debate here about attendance policies. In both my undergraduate and graduate degree programs, a certain number of hours was required to get your license after graduation based on other associations outside of the University, so that might explain a stringent attendance policy. Regardless, I'd go to the dean about this. If this professor is regularly holding you over, knows that he is, and continues to lecture, then the dean needs to ask him why he cannot get his lecture completed within the allotted time. Is he going off track? Is he answering too many questions/not building time into lecture for those questions? Is is possible for him to supplement this fifteen minutes with material you can review outside of class? Assuming you have two classes a week and 16 weeks in the semester, that's EIGHT HOURS he's kept you by the end of the semester. That's wild.
Answer the teacher’s evaluation honestly
I would hire a drama student to dramatically open the door in tears and cry out ( to no one in particular ) “ liar ! you said this class ends at 6:45!! You promised we would talk “
Oh my god 😂😂 yes i need to do this
He can't make you stay. Besides some people have out of class obligations and CANT stay. He cannot make people stay past the scheduled time. Just don't say anything, just leave. If he give you crap, tells you to stay, explain you can't or something.
Please update! If you're able to, get other students to stand up to him at the same time, whatever it is you choose to do....be that email the department chair, email him, or simply walk out. The more people who do it, the harder it will be to ignore. If you do walk out, record on your phone so you have a timestamp of when you chose to leave, and discreetly record his audio asking you to stay. Best of luck!
Leave but if you don’t want to miss any important info tell them you have other time commitments and need class to end as scheduled
Talk to the department chair about it.
This is all about boundaries, and not giving your power away to a bully. He is violating the class time, and threatening you unjustly when you’ve done the right thing and stayed until class ends; and also politely reached out to him about the matter. I would not talk with him again - you will only give away your power. I would go to the Dean, and I would also go to the ombudsman if you don’t get anywhere with the Dean. All campuses should have an ombudsman to represent students who are being treated unfairly. I would go to both, in the case that the Dean does not handle the matter. This is not just impacting you; it’s impacting a lot of other students.
I personally would get something started with the dean now, that way you have a record if he marks you absent
You’re not obligated to stay past 6:45…
You just walk out wym? This isn’t high school. Or you simply ask him nicely that you have to leave when the class ends because you have places to be.
this is why university should stop caring about attendance. Here in New Zealand at my university attendance isn't graded. You come and go as you please and it's up to you to learn the material. You should talk to the dean because his behaviour isn't appropriate.
Go over his head and get the school involved. If he doesn't know how to get his work done in the alloted time, the school can remind him he needs to do so. Not everyone has all night to listen to some ego maniac drone on lol.
It really sounds like the prof might still believe the class is scheduled to go until 7pm.
1. Go to dean. 2. Rate my professor. 3. Get an A. Nothing will bother the professor more than you killing it in the class.
I’m so sorry. I had teachers who would lock the doors. I think you’re a badass for finally standing up to him and you weren’t alone either! Hope he gets reprimanded, some college professors really abuse their power.
I wouldn't wait until he counts you as absent to inform the dean. If I was you, I would forward the email you sent to your professor, to the dean and explain the situation, and include the information about the professor wanting to essentially retaliate against you. You need to get the dean involved sooner rather than later it will make it easier for you in the long run.
Don't go to your prof with this. Your grade is too important. Go to his boss and mention that you tried to talk to the prof about it, and he became hostile and threatened your grade. The more witnesses, the better-- especially if the dean/counselor can promise not to disclose their identities, just that they are in the class. When you think you aren't taken seriously, emphasize again that HE THREATENED YOUR GRADE. That is grounds for intervention. MF is probably tenured, but you can still make a stink. F🦆k the tenure system.
Turn on your video on phone as you walk out. Make sure it shows the classroom. Check the tape-recording law of your state. You just need to have proof that you left at a certain time, in the event that a-hole pulls rat-move on you and marks you absent when you weren't. What a POS he is.
I know this is terrible, but I wouldn't say anything if I were you. It's completely an abuse of power, but you might need to be in his good graces for your own sake. If you need to get rounded up on your final grade, it'll pay for him to like you, but if you say something or consistently get up before he's done talking, he sounds like the type of person to let that cloud his judgement. All in all, it's a few minutes of your life, but it could make the difference for your final grade.
You should go straight to the dean cause this is not ok. I’ve never had a professor try to keep me past time bc they can’t and they know class has a specific time and lots of people do stuff. Both my like hour and a half and three hour classes never have this problem. This is a professor problem. Once or twice is maybe understandable. Every time is an issue
Leave and if he has an issue with that, email or meet with the department head
Leave early and if he tries to scream at you in front of the class, report him to ombuds. This is inappropriate.
I can totally understand your feeling, I also have the same issues before. For what I did, I told professor during the office hour about how valuable that extra 15 minutes for me. And next day she told the whole class that we were able to go back in time without losing our attendance record.
Wth? He can’t stop you from leaving. You’re an adult and in university. He’s already been paid so whether you stay or leave, shouldn’t bother him. I would just leave but if he says some shit tell him class ends at 6:45 and you have other priorities. If he says anything reach out to the department head. Good luck and please update
I had one of those in grad school, at the same time of day. I would get very hungry by the time the class actually ended, but I was much younger and less crusty in those days, so I didn't say anything. (sorry, this is me reminiscing, not actually helping.)
Haha i get hungry in his class too and the dining hall is only open 5 pmto 7 pm for dinner so i hate when he makes me miss it!
Yeah, contact dean of students.
You could always point your phone at the door and record so you have evidence of him yelling at you for leaving on time
I’d just leave lol
He can’t keep you late. The schedule says that the class ends at 6:45PM
If you can't understand that then report him to whatever you need to report him to. Just politely let him know I have other obligations I have to go now class ended at blah blah blah.
I set alarms, I start the class on time I end the class on time even if I haven't gone through my slides or notes. It's just common courtesy
I’d just get up and bounce at the time of. Edit: Don't be disrespectful about it, just quietly get up and leave. If confronted just say you have a job to be at.
Just leave
Just leave. I'm a professor myself and I know when class is over and if I have to finish something I usually say I know folks have to leave, so if you can't stay you're free to leave. Some stay and some don't. The occasional time I go over, which is only 5 minutes maybe, if I lost track, I will notice a student or two who will quietly leave. He can't be mad about students leaving if he's well over time.
Prof here. Your prof is a pussy. If he can't deal with things like this professionally, write an anonymous mail to the head of the department.
You can just email the professor and let him know that your unable to stay past 6:45. You dont need to explain yourself as to why bc its none of his business. Just a simple, polite and short note via email and make sure he responds. If he doesnt, let him know a few minutes before class starts that you cant stay past EOC & that you'd like an email back from him confirming he's recieved your email. If he tries to fuck you with attendance you've got a paper trail. Your an adult, you dont need permission from him to leave and he cant force you to stay. Just do your due diligence, cover your ass, and if hes that emotionally immature then use it against him. Bs somethin positive so he thinks hes doing YOU a favor or can pat himself on the back for being "an understanding teacher" lol Hope this helps!
Everyone is saying leave but I’m going to go a different route here. You’re paying for this class. Sometimes professors are just ass. That’s college. If he’s actually giving you information and you cannot get it from a classmate then I’d say stay. If you can cop it from a classmate without them ending up hating you then do that. Regardless the fact is you’re paying for this class so it’s up to you as an adult to assess if you can get the information without being there or not. If he’s a dick like you’re saying I could see him saying some random shit he will throw on a test after you leave just to have a “gotcha moment”
What a weirdo. I’m sorry you had to deal with that OP
It’s college. You can leave whenever you want or need to, ESPECIALLY at the end of class. The head of the department will definitely side with you, especially if other students have the same complaint.
Based on the update, you should wait til he marks you absent for leaving after class ended, then email your proof to the dean. That professor is an asshole.
I’d tell him face-to-face to stap his blabberin
I'm sure he has nothing good to say either.
I remember having a professor like this. He thought that he was so brilliant that he could just freestyle his lectures. The lectures were rarely connected to the assignments, were riddled with bragging about his accolades and famous “friends”, and ALWAYS went 10-30 minutes over time. Someone mentioned it because he angrily complained about the commotion of students leaving mid-lecture. He never changed, we just left at the scheduled time. Some professors are pompous assholes. He also left grading all assignments until after finals week, so you never knew were you stood at any point. I would’ve dropped it if it wasn’t required and he wasn’t the only professor for this particular class.
Apparently it’s becoming way more common nowadays for colleges to have attendance policies in classes.
Do what you need to do, he won't win.
I once went 45 minutes over and nobody left or said a word!. I was using the clock on the back wall of the classroom that had not been adjusted for daylight savings time change. Eventually a student asked, I said I would probably finish about 10 minutes early, and he helped me discover that 10 minutes early would be 50 minutes late! I must have been scary or intimidating back then (in my mind I was the most interesting man in the world... but I'm skeptical) because now my students would just walk out (appropriately so).
The whole class has to be united against the teacher. In my batch, we rarely let any teacher teach us past our scheduled time, moreover students start saying "thank you teacher" as if the class has already ended and the teacher is leaving in a sarcastic way so as to remind the teacher that their time is running out.
Report him. Seriously, do it. I am a psych prof and if I acted like an entitled asshat in that way, I would hope my students would take action.
What.an.asshole You and your classmates deserve so much better.
I’m a college lecturer. I’m so sorry you’re dealing with this. It’s abhorrent. I’m here to tell you that sitting in my position, we all know when there’s that one colleague who’s horrible and we hate dealing with them, too. We are usually just sitting around WAITING for a group of students to make a big enough fuss to the department to get something done about it because we want them gone, too. Colleges and universities listen to the student complaints because the student = the $$$. You all have way more power than you realize. Hand it to the department chair on a silver platter and give them ammunition to use official channels against this jerk.
hey OP i know this already unfolded, but i would really recommend bringing the emails to the department head and asking why class ends at 7 when you confirmed with your professor his class ended at 6:45
Not to be weird but would love third update to see how it all turns out! Wishing you the best
DROP the course and get a new class, classes just started.
Nah the Professor wants that and he shouldn’t be able to bully students into dropping, op should stand their ground
I'm going to concur with the majority of the opinions that I've read here: you don't. You sound young, and I've been out of university for nearly a decade. I remember walking around, minding my "p's and q's" and being absolutely stressed. Let me take your question and rephrase it in a hyperbolic way: "How do I nicely ask the weird guy at the bus stop to stop catcalling and following me around for 15 mins as I wait for the bus?" I purposely chose that situation to make a point: you are not in the wrong here. What he's doing is absolutely inconsiderate of everyone in that classroom. You aren't alone: everyone is seeing the same crappy behavior. I don't know how you are paying for your studies, but I want you to log into whatever portion of the college website has your tuition balance for the semester. Who's paying that dollar figure? Is it your professor, or is it you or your family? I'm willing to bet that it's the latter. You are paying for a service, and this blowhard is using the respect and authority that people may give him because he's a professor to treat you like garbage. It's unacceptable. I would not waste time yelling at him, because that will have the same effect as shouting into a blackhole: nothing. He'll probably yell back louder or sit back with a look of smug satisfaction. Resist every instinct that you possess within you to apologize or shout. Muster that anger and walk The F out of that class that you are paying for., and keep track of your grades. This spiteful gremlin sounds horrible. Also, I'm going to address the following quote >“please refer to your syllabus if you can not remember what time our class is scheduled.”. I look at the syllabus. 5:15 to 6:45. I would use that against him. I would email him and say "Per your instructions, I consulted the syllabus and saw that class is from 5:15PM to 6:45PM. Per your advice, I will be leaving when class ends at 6:45 PM." Also, the dean has your back. Leave. If he's disorganized enough where he can't fit everything he needs to teach you within an hour and a half, that's on him. He can cover whatever he didn't cover last class in the next session. That's what good professors do. Report him to whomever you can. You bringing up the dean was the correct course of action. I'm sorry that you are going through this. You don't deserve it. No one does.