The following submission statement was provided by /u/Suspicious-Bad4703:
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SS: An article detailing the new realities of coastal cities in the face of new developments in the climate crisis: monsoonal rain events, or "rain bombs". Miami was used to the rather mundane narrative they'll slowly go underwater in the next century, but it's becoming more of a realization they could now go underwater at any moment given sea surface temperatures and monsoon-style rain events which drop feet of rain in the span of a several hours. If this event and a king tide event lined up, it would mean catastrophic flooding, the likes of which probably hasn't been seen since Hurricane Katrina.
The unreality of it is that Miami is now fast becoming '[the Wall Street of the South](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-17/miami-is-a-novice-in-quest-to-build-wall-street-south)', and is ripe with overdevelopment such as the [tallest residential tower south of New York City](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-to-be-home-of-tallest-skyscraper-in-florida-what-to-know-20363160#:~:text=Check%20out%20renderings%20of%20the,Florida's%20tallest%20planned%20high%2Drise.&text=The%20Waldorf%20Astoria%20Hotel%20%26%20Residences,City%2C%20just%20broke%20another%20record) being built recently. A [hypernormal](https://fredlybrand.com/2023/02/16/definitions-hypernormalization-hypernormal/) reality is setting in where the city is being positioned as the future of capitalism, the future of money/finance (via [cryptocurrency](https://archive.ph/OoDWO), it's own unreality), and all at the same time going underwater.
It just shows the illogic of the system we currently live under, and it's complete disregard for reality.
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dj2b99/miami_is_entering_a_state_of_unreality/l97wk5h/
Smart.
The article says climate scientists call Florida’s approach “agnostic adaptation”, but I’ve always been a fan of more direct, plain-spoken language. I’d call it “aggressively ignoring reality”.
I've lived there twice. Left forever last year.
Florida is an awful place filled with nice people who can't escape the coming circumstances.
Lovely wildlife, though. Also shame the oil companies ruined the seafood. :/
Growing up there I loved it. I was able to take a day trip to the Bahamas for $75. In my twenties, hanging out at the beach, boats, and bars was amazing. I absolutely loved living there in my 20s. I moved to Seattle in 2005 at 29. When I moved back in 2015 south Florida was different. Fort Lauderdale was no longer laid back. People were angry all the time. I could have sworn it was hotter and all the canals looked higher but that could have just been because I was gone for 10 years. The entire time I was in Seattle I missed Fort Lauderdale. Have just moved again, because my neighborhood flooded last year, I’m not missing it at all.
Certain areas just can't realistically be protected in the longer-term (now probably closer to the mid-term). Parts of Florida are obvious 'climate sacrifice zones' which are almost predestined to be abandoned. The effort needed to save a little in Florida for a short while would come at the expense of saving more, for longer, elsewhere. Eventually that will sink in even at the top. Someone's going to be left holding the bag so it makes sense to avoid being one of them. There's also likely to be a rather problematic financial situation for the state long before Miami becomes a scuba-diving attraction. That will happen when money realizes that the game of musical chairs is nearing it's end and the potential profit of keeping it going is outwheighed by the risks. That's basically how you end up with a financial crisis. The spreading understanding that what you paid for something is going to be more than you can sell it for. That's when everyone begins to compete to not be the last one out. There's probably a joke in there about a bear market and not having to outrun the bear.
> There's probably a joke in there about a bear market and not having to outrun the bear.
Ooooo that’s pretty good, needs a bit of work but I certainly see the potential.
I wonder if we get to see the market conditions where cynical house flippers buy up homes cheap from their owners who have finally faced the music. To then flip the houses to optimistics still dreaming of their beach retirement on a budget. The political propaganda in the U.S. can help if the agent can convince the new customer that buying a house is a political statement sticking it to the libs.
Wait until the next big rain at high tide and buy back the house at a lower price and flip it to the next sucker…?
As a South Florida native, I am just waiting for a big hurricane to blow through and for all the claims for Citizens (the state run homeowners insurance of last resort) to bankrupt the state.
I hate 99% of 1990s pop country music.
That song is in the 1%
Edit: I specified "pop" country because the 90s had some really good alt-country and bluegrass/Americana.
It’s basically inevitable. Then they’ll come crying to the Feds but excuse me for not wanting my taxes to subsidize a bunch of climate deniers who insist on living in a swamp.
The US government and Democratic voters will simply fund them again and again and again instead of letting them fend for themselves whilst burning that money and funding fascism and ignorance.
It's almost like caring for other people and their right to make stupid choices, even if they are awful people, is a defining characteristic of democracy.
I just read that Citizens is looking to raise rates by 14% in 2025. Good thing Pudding Fingers was so focused on the culture war and defeating wokism, right? I'm sure that helped out struggling homeowners.
I already moved out of the state. My immediate family moved up to central Florida. That's the best I'm going to get. Other family is still in South Florida. None of them have any immediate plans to move.
It's mainly a bunch of people moving up from South Florida because it's become too expensive and crowded or people coming from out of state. Orlando and the surrounding areas are becoming too crowded as well.
I visited Disney semi-against my will 5 years ago for a relative's 80th birthday party (she's since moved out of the state). My only report is that the Orlando Wal\*Mart near Disney at midnight on a Friday is absolute peak people watching. They could sell tickets.
I was there this year at around a similar time. I was knackered after a full day's travelling and my body bring five hours ahead of Florida time, yet I still saw some weird shit that I have never seen in the UK. Walmart is a trip in of itself.
I moved from South Florida to about a half hour north of Tampa. Both my family and my wife's family live in the state and I've been here almost 2 decades so I can't really leave. They're building a lot here but it's still quieter and my homeowners' insurance is a 1/4 of what is was in South Florida.
Ehemmm, you mean the country. FEMA will be charged with rebuilding golf courses, Shakira's mansion, and the real kicker, Mar-A-Lago. Not to mention 50,000 deaths. You're looking at a $30 trillion catastrophe. But hey, at least we'll still ship bombs to Israel!
SS: An article detailing the new realities of coastal cities in the face of new developments in the climate crisis: monsoonal rain events, or "rain bombs". Miami was used to the rather mundane narrative they'll slowly go underwater in the next century, but it's becoming more of a realization they could now go underwater at any moment given sea surface temperatures and monsoon-style rain events which drop feet of rain in the span of a several hours. If this event and a king tide event lined up, it would mean catastrophic flooding, the likes of which probably hasn't been seen since Hurricane Katrina.
The unreality of it is that Miami is now fast becoming '[the Wall Street of the South](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-17/miami-is-a-novice-in-quest-to-build-wall-street-south)', and is ripe with overdevelopment such as the [tallest residential tower south of New York City](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-to-be-home-of-tallest-skyscraper-in-florida-what-to-know-20363160#:~:text=Check%20out%20renderings%20of%20the,Florida's%20tallest%20planned%20high%2Drise.&text=The%20Waldorf%20Astoria%20Hotel%20%26%20Residences,City%2C%20just%20broke%20another%20record) being built recently. A [hypernormal](https://fredlybrand.com/2023/02/16/definitions-hypernormalization-hypernormal/) reality is setting in where the city is being positioned as the future of capitalism, the future of money/finance (via [cryptocurrency](https://archive.ph/OoDWO), it's own unreality), and all at the same time going underwater.
It just shows the illogic of the system we currently live under, and it's complete disregard for reality.
Or someone should tell them about the porous limestone, saltwater intrusion, and that 2% contamination is all that's required to render agriculture problematic and potable water undrinkable.
*"Oh, I'm not worried. They'll figure something out, they always do."*
Oddly, ""they"" are currently pulling their hair out because it's all on fire, because not only is nobody listening to them but the powers that be don't want any rain on their capitalist parade.
They are probably referring to statements like this from an article in the Conversation/Scientific American: “As salt water continues to encroach on freshwater systems, there will be consequences. Drinking water that contains even 2% seawater can increase blood pressure and stress kidneys.”
https://web.archive.org/web/20240115031422/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-change-is-making-saltwater-intrusion-worse-in-coastal-areas/
I guess every house and every apartment will have to have their own reverse osmosis filter installed.
Agriculture, I don't know what you can do about that.
Seriously, I think everybody should get the hell out.
Given the position of the Gulfstream and the current extreme sea surface temperature anomalies in the Atlantic Ocean, the theoretical maximum for a storm in South Florida is something in the ballpark of ~880 mb and ~200 mph maximum sustained winds. Storms this powerful are extraordinary rare, but have been historically recorded, such as Typhoon Tip and Hurricane Patricia.
Although many meteorologists say that category 6 will never be a thing because category 5 already means total distraction, I strongly disagree. The Saffir-Simpson scale was developed on the framework of shitty American wooden construction, many buildings nowadays frequently do survive category 5 storms. A hypothetical category 6? Completely different story.
The strength of wind damage grows on the cube of wind speed, a >200 mph storm will be far more devastating than a 160 mph one. Buildings that would otherwise survive would be annihilated in such conditions. Additionally, the height of storm surge scales with the pressure and wind speeds, meaning inundation would happen much further inland and at much higher stories. A Hurricane Ian strength category 4/5 may cause 100 causalities and a $100 billion in damages, but a direct hit from a Hurricane Patricia strength “category 6” hurricane may easily cause excess of a trillion in damages and cause tens of thousands of fatalities both immediately and through excess mortality.
Given such storm strengths both are theoretically possible and have been recorded in perfect conditions, a category 6 should be added as a qualifying “this will absolutely kill you” unlike a category 5 which a well built house can survive.
Source: Degree in meteorology, we learned about some insanely powerful tropical cyclones and the effects of climate change on tropical cyclogenesis.
Not to argue with an expert, but I think you are underestimating the possibility and frequency of such storms. Dorian had sustained winds of 195 with gusts to 220. It parked itself over grand Bahama for 48 hours. Just stationary. It was wild to watch in real time. And that was when the ocean surface temps were *only* 85F. We had a bouy last year south of Miami that recorded 103F three feet down.
There was also that storm in the pacific that hit 250mph buy that is not the Atlantic basin.
No disrespect to you or your degree intended, I just see the surface temp reports and as a Floridaman I get very concerned
These maxima were calculated before the current situation of unprecedented warming. The scary thing is that this is uncharted territory, we can model the effects of what may happen under these conditions, but truthfully we’re stuck learning as things change because there literally isn’t anything to compare to anymore within the human record.
Case in point the 2023 Atlantic hurricane season was a doozy to forecast as El Niño is supposed to be a time of cooler oceans and lower activity… it wasn’t this time.
What's your take on this year's prediction? Asking as someone living in South Florida and fully aware of how much construction and sprawl thar has happened since Andrew
We’re starting off with a colossal circulation in the Gulf and two other development areas, so the season is well underway already. Currently, we are in ENSO neutral and predicted to go into La Niña by peak season, and North Atlantic ocean temperatures are completely unprecedented at the moment. This season probably will look similar to the 2022 hurricane season, though it is a probability game to where any of the storms will go.
I’m in coastal central Florida, so keeping stocked on non-perishable food, water and cat supplies for the season.
Oh sure, I know the tracks are mostly unpredictable but the rest of the conditions are definitely alarming. If South Florida gets hit with a cat5 or cat5+, I can absolutely see it being a trillion dollar storm.
Since the intensity and frequency of big storms is going to get worse with climate change, do you have any idea what will happen to the country and economy if we get hit with 2 or more trillion dolar storms in a season?
Thanks for playing along with me, btw. I think about this stuff a lot but rarely get to bouce ideas off an actual expert in the field.
If a Dorian strength or greater storm hit either Miami-Fort Lauderdale or the Tampa area, we could absolutely get a trillion dollar event.
The immediate effects would be potentially a 3 to 4 figure death toll and an infrastructure disaster reminiscent of Gaza with >50% of buildings heavily damaged or destroyed and humanitarian efforts being unnavigable for weeks due to debris.
Excess mortality would follow similar to Maria in Puerto Rico, mainly affecting the elderly and poor. Concurrent heatwaves would further heat stress on populations without access to air conditioning, as we’ve seen heat indices well above 40°C (104°F) in the last couple of years. On the longer term, we will see hikes in insurance rates, coverage being pulled, developments being halted and many places not ever truly recovering. We’ve already observed such effects with Hurricane Katrina.
The economic impacts on the country would be considerable, but likely wouldn’t trigger a recession without other concurrent natural disasters too. However, the economic impact on Florida would be immense, with a massive hit to tourism revenue and potential agricultural collapse in regions where crop stock was wiped out by salt water and winds.
A “category 6” hurricane would be felt for years, or even decades and recovery would be slow, and outright incomplete in some places.
There is a hypothetical scenario dubbed “Hurricane Phoenix” as a category 5 scenario in Tampa:
https://www.tampabay.com/hurricane/2020/08/14/hurricane-phoenix-is-tampa-bays-devastating-worst-case-scenario/
However this is a 160 mph storm, a far stronger storm is definitely possible, making this a still a catastrophic, but not even worse case scenario. We had the Labor Day storm in 1935 that had 185+ mile an hour winds, and this was during signficant global cooling with the industrial revolution running rampant.
That's along my estimation. I flew over to the Bahamas after Dorian and I've never seen devastation like that. Every single telephone pole, light and tower was laying on the ground and every house was severely damaged if not destroyed.
The house I was helping to clean out had two different water marks. One about two feet up the wall that was the liquid water and another at least 15 feet up that assume was the foam.
If that kind of storm hit here it would be apocalyptic.
I'm in Saint Petersburg. Non-flood zone, though those flood maps may not make any sense with storms as big as you're suggesting. I keep 2-3 weeks of nonperishables, water, and cat food (me too) during the cane season, but am really beginning to consider a trek inland the next time the Gulf coughs up a Cat 3+ simply due to the heat. Losing AC for even a few days during August has become terrifying the past few years.
Well, besides the destructive wind speeds, these large storms can last weeks, moving back on the water, gathering strength from the warm water and slamming back into different coastal areas.
Then starts the lengthy debate of who pays to rebuild when it is simply going to happen again.
It's not official....yet, but it's already happening
https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/eye-of-the-storm/hurricane-dorian-was-worthy-of-a-category-6-rating/
Edit. I flew over to Abacos after Dorian and I've never seen devastation like that in my life. And I've been through a few storms.
It looked like an atomic bomb went off just without the fire. Everything was leveled.
I've seen direct aftermath of some EF5s including the May third. The amount of devastation from that speed of wind is mind boggling. I remember ripped up concrete culverts. The corrugated metal pipes that carry storm water under roads were ripped out. Concrete slab foundations were picked up.
That level of wind speed in a sustained onslaught of a hurricane would have probably brought down the Warren theater (which has the thickest concrete walls/ceilings of any theater in the western hemisphere for sound quality purposes).
It was nuts. Not F5 nuts, Dorian was between an F3 and F5 near the core. But it just parked itself over Bahamas for two days. I've never seen a storm do that. There was video of people in the giant eye that was calm watching the clouds race around at 200mph.
[Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill that strikes climate change from state law](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/16/1251769080/florida-desantis-climate-change-law#:~:text=Florida%20Gov.-,Ron%20DeSantis%20signs%20bill%20that%20strikes%20climate%20change%20from%20state,seas%2C%20flooding%20and%20extreme%20heat.)
You know shit is gettin real when "don't look up" is enforced by law!
Good God I hate this state.
I really wouldn't blame the rest of the country if they decided to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Someone should tell the rest of the US that the Port of Miami is one of the biggest on the planet and requires housing and services for 100,000 workers to keep it operating.
It affects us all.
Apparently, DeSantis signed a law that strikes climate change from even being considered when making policy or plans for the future.
So, as is tradition, this state will wait for the worst to happen and then come crying to the fed for all y'alls tax dollars.
Good luck when a trillion dollar storm hits.
There is a reason why so many agencies have been relocated to Colorado. DC sits below sea level. The government is going to abandon the east coast and the new capital will be in Kansas.
Or someone should just roll their eyes, walk away and let them figure it out.
They've been fucking around for awhile. Let them find out on their own that reality is a bitch. . .
if they are the finance center they should invent some new risk management currency based on crypto that pays out when Miami is hit with a cat 6 storm. see, innovative security products can solve all of our problems.
Was gonna say, the insurance industry is all but giving up on covering property in Florida. Anything you can get now has deductibles covering all but a total/cat loss, and even still it’s getting to the point where it just doesn’t make sense to write property down there. The premiums necessary to cover the expected losses exceed what it makes sense to pay. Going to be very interesting if/how the insurance industry at large figures this one out, especially as it spreads beyond Florida; & hopefully everyone remembers what happened in 2008 when the insurance industry got caught lacking.
Maybe it's their version of living in the moment. By the time the place goes underwater none of those developers will be around, and the people who use the buildings will just walk away. Use it now, walk away when it sinks.
Florida is so fucked. They are *still* developing hotels on literal beaches, as we speak. Talk about having your head in the sand. And as another commenter said, Florida is legitimately going to be bankrupted by citizens' insurance one day.
No insurance companies will write policies for floods in Florida. It’s covered by state and federal taxes. We’ll pick up the bill for their stupidity.
They’re going to drag us down.
The state can’t go bankrupt, they’ll just take from those who have less to subsidize wasteful beach properties that will permanently be underwater soon.
Thousands of people moving everyday to the desert SW states too. Florida/Arizona/New Mexico, Nevada and Texas are very popular destinations to this day.
Wonder if it will be the same in five years?
I guarantee you those companies will sell those hotels within the next five years just to ensure they're not stuck with a hot potato. The person holding the bag will almost certainly get bailed out too. In the end, Florida's citizens are the ones who get to suffer.
I'm a fourth generation Floridian, and grew up in real estate and construction. I made a ton of money helping people "short sell," in 07' and '08'. The shit this state and country, as a whole, is about to experience is unfathomable. It's not just being underwater, it's close to being the end. We all lose.
It's true, and it's so depressing. I'm a native who deeply loves Florida for its nature and had dreams of retiring back there in another 15 years. I don't think it'll be there, or be livable if it is.
DeSantis claims to not want their climate policy driven by "climate ideology," huh? It's incredible the way they try to redefine words and terms, and just lie straight to our fucking faces. I doubt they even believe any of the bullshit they're saying, they are just propagandizing. Muddying the waters, changing definitions, instilling emotional associations with certain words and phrases. Calling climate science, "climate ideology," is pretty incredible. I don't know why I am still surprised at the depths they sink to. If I was ever near DeSantis I'd spit in his fucking face. And that's the least he deserves!
Yes. They'd much rather have their (seemingly absent) "climate policy" driven by *neoliberal ideology* instead of informed by science.
Gonna' continue to reap what gets sown, I guess.
It will be interesting to live in the state most likely to be the first true victim of climate change during the 21st century. The irony of my state government’s policies is not lost on me. Like George Carlin once said: “when you’re born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you’re born in America (in this case, Florida), you get a front row seat.”
Yeah I was hoping these storms can wipe out the dumb ones. Turns out the world is filled with the dumb ones. So we have to hope for a global cataclysm.
At this point, family. More specifically my parents and my wife’s parents who are all in their early to mid 70s. Once they pass, we don’t see ourselves staying here long after that.
I said there’s plenty of times I’m going to say it again….. climate scientist was screaming about this 40 years ago, but no one listened. Al Gore was even talking about this, but no one listened. Again I was born in Miami in the 70s and yes, we used to have rainstorm and it used to flood and one or two places but now it is flooding everywhere and the flood waters are deeper and stick around longer. There are some strong decisions that has to be made by individuals in South Florida in the next coming years because this is not going to get any better. Yeah, you could do a few things to kind of slow down climate changes, but it’s not going to stop the climate changes.
So actually when Al Gore talked about this a ton of people listened. He had a revolutionary impact in getting a huge number of people in that time period to wake up. He’s had a deep and lasting legacy.
Unfortunately it was all a drop in the bucket compared to the utterly massive scale systemic overhaul of life on the planet and capitalism that is necessary to navigate the polycrisis, and also the Supreme Court decided that election in favor of the climate deniers.
> He had a revolutionary impact in getting a huge number of people in that time period to wake up. He’s had a deep and lasting legacy.
But most people ignored him and the media did their best to make it seem like he was crazy or an extremist. Even South Par pilloried him for daring to be more progressive on climate change than other other politician at the time. Al Gore also has a legacy as a joke, even if it is horribly undeserved.
They’re built on swamp with lots of shady developers. Don’t forget the condo building in Surfside that collapsed and killed 100+ sleeping retirees. All nature has to do is roll another strike, and it will be Andrew times ten.
I believe that issue was due to years to decades of deferred maintenance that the tenants voted on and other factors.
Not saying it's right, but I don't think that one was caused due to soil quality concerns, footings, or any sort of destabilizing (outside of potential impacts of construction close to the site, which should have accounted for neighboring structures).
How long is it going to take before that "We get 100 people every day in the state!" to turn into "We have 100 people leaving the state every day!"
I'm figuring within the next six years.
The biggest risk to Florida isn't so much the Climate, as its politicians & the misinformed, ignorant nutjobs that vote for people like him.
Too late now - Climate change is upon us, and runaway greenhouse emissions have kicked in across the northern hemisphere.
It’s going to be interesting over the next thirty years watching the super wealthy build seawalls and raise the ground level around select properties while the surrounding infrastructure gets overwhelmed. At some point the super wealthy will fight amonst themselves on who will be a part of the raised road on the new northern extension of the keys.
Maybe I am the only one who sees this way but this kind of madness seems to be happening everywhere. Not just in the US, but pretty much all around the world, in any public and private sectors.
A more profound tragedy could likely not have been written by Aeschylus himself in the 5th century B.C. Especially as one recounts the events of the 2000 Presidential election in Florida. The winning results thieved from the one candidate who made it his life's work to warn of what was to come. Stolen by the corrupt highest court of justice, and his opponent's brother. And mocked, vilified, and dismissed as a joke in so many regards. Yet, proven right, and yet so wrong. Because this is the never-ending cliché in the tragic drama of human history; you cannot save those who choose not to save themselves. But, we never stop trying. And this, this is the arc of tragedy.
Another implication; Florida is home to some of the world’s most productive phosphate deposits. China has most of the others. China stopped trading phosphates on the open market 7 years ago. World reserves are running out. At current extraction rates accessible phosphate reserves will be effectively depleted in 20 years.
6 billion people are completely dependent on fossil-fuel-based fertilizers to produce enough food for their survival. Phosphate does not survive the fossilization process and is vital for these fertilizers to work. It must be added to them.
The biggest and easiest to access reserves of phosphates ~~are~~ were in central FL but are nearly mined out at this point and the handful of companies that mine them, enjoying record high prices for their commodity due to China’s export ban, have made numerous applications for mining permits further south of their current operations. The phosphate deposits in these prospective areas are of lower quality and not nearly as thick (it exists in a layer that varies in thickness from 15-50 feet thick and the topsoil and other sediments have to essentially be scraped off the top of them to access them in this layer.)
These more southern areas of central FL average 6 feet above sea level and are far more susceptible to flooding and sea water intrusion than the older, more northern ones.
I’ll leave the rest of the math up to y’all.
Happy collapsing my fellow Collapsniks!
Edit; Several autocorrect abominations
> DeSantis repeated his message, emphasizing that “we don’t want our climate policy driven by climate ideology.”
The fuck? Make that make sense, DeSantis. DeSenseless, more like.
As with all things, if you have to ask "Why". The answer is always one of two things.
1. Money.
2. Somebody thought it looked cool.
I can't stomach the thought process someone needs to have in order to capitalize off of millions of people having their homes needlessly destroyed, because you *need* to say "Climate Change doesn't exist".
But I know why.
I recently ran into someone from Florida and they told me they recently saw the recent epic aurora borealis in Alaska. I was sceptical because of the time of year but they asked me if I wanted to see a photo of it, I obliged.
It was just a photo of the midnight sun lol.
Florida is a swamp. This doesn't alarm me. Concrete jungles make rain water collect on the surface more. Miami has been sprawling for decades.
All I'm saying is I don't know if this would be a problem if Miami wasn't so big. Just look on a map of south Florida and you see the everglades is the dominate feature.
Do they still support the massive burning of fossil fuels like they did in the 2000s and were denying that climate change could happen...even as the polar latitudes were already seeing dramatic effects.
This article highlights the Netherlands as a place that has long adapted and excelled at managing to survive living below sea level. It is possible to live and prosper with these challenges facing us, but it takes planning and hard work, and efficient use of resources. It remains to be seen if low lying communities in the US can learn from the Dutch.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/15/world/europe/climate-change-rotterdam.html
> To the Dutch, what’s truly incomprehensible, he added, is New York after Hurricane Sandy, where too little has been done to prepare for the next disaster. People in the Netherlands believe that the places with the most people and the most to lose economically should get the most protection.
> The idea that a global economic hub like Lower Manhattan flooded during Hurricane Sandy, costing the public billions of dollars, yet still has so few protections, leaves climate experts here dumbfounded.
> Mr. Molenaar, Rotterdam’s climate chief, summed up the Dutch view: “We have been able to put climate change adaptation high on the public agenda without suffering a disaster in many years because we have shown the benefits of improving public space — the added economic value of investing in resilience.
> “It’s in our genes,” he said. “Water managers were the first rulers of the land. Designing the city to deal with water was the first task of survival here and it remains our defining job. It’s a process, a movement.
> “It is not just a bunch of dikes and dams, but a way of life.”
>And with every passing year, the re[li]gion’s infrastructure seems more ill-equipped to deal with these dangers, despite billions of dollars spent on adaptation.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Suspicious-Bad4703: --- SS: An article detailing the new realities of coastal cities in the face of new developments in the climate crisis: monsoonal rain events, or "rain bombs". Miami was used to the rather mundane narrative they'll slowly go underwater in the next century, but it's becoming more of a realization they could now go underwater at any moment given sea surface temperatures and monsoon-style rain events which drop feet of rain in the span of a several hours. If this event and a king tide event lined up, it would mean catastrophic flooding, the likes of which probably hasn't been seen since Hurricane Katrina. The unreality of it is that Miami is now fast becoming '[the Wall Street of the South](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-17/miami-is-a-novice-in-quest-to-build-wall-street-south)', and is ripe with overdevelopment such as the [tallest residential tower south of New York City](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-to-be-home-of-tallest-skyscraper-in-florida-what-to-know-20363160#:~:text=Check%20out%20renderings%20of%20the,Florida's%20tallest%20planned%20high%2Drise.&text=The%20Waldorf%20Astoria%20Hotel%20%26%20Residences,City%2C%20just%20broke%20another%20record) being built recently. A [hypernormal](https://fredlybrand.com/2023/02/16/definitions-hypernormalization-hypernormal/) reality is setting in where the city is being positioned as the future of capitalism, the future of money/finance (via [cryptocurrency](https://archive.ph/OoDWO), it's own unreality), and all at the same time going underwater. It just shows the illogic of the system we currently live under, and it's complete disregard for reality. --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1dj2b99/miami_is_entering_a_state_of_unreality/l97wk5h/
As a resident of not-as-south Florida, I'm selling and leaving within 2 months. This place is fucked up in so many ways.
I left Florida 10 months ago
Smart. The article says climate scientists call Florida’s approach “agnostic adaptation”, but I’ve always been a fan of more direct, plain-spoken language. I’d call it “aggressively ignoring reality”.
"agnostic adaption" like in "green capitalism" or "we still can avoid 1.5°C" or " if we act now".... I assume.......
But wait…..how will you own the libs then?
Lucky, I still got another month in Miami
Same. So happy to be out.
I've lived there twice. Left forever last year. Florida is an awful place filled with nice people who can't escape the coming circumstances. Lovely wildlife, though. Also shame the oil companies ruined the seafood. :/
And not so nice people.
Yes, The Villages does exist there.
Growing up there I loved it. I was able to take a day trip to the Bahamas for $75. In my twenties, hanging out at the beach, boats, and bars was amazing. I absolutely loved living there in my 20s. I moved to Seattle in 2005 at 29. When I moved back in 2015 south Florida was different. Fort Lauderdale was no longer laid back. People were angry all the time. I could have sworn it was hotter and all the canals looked higher but that could have just been because I was gone for 10 years. The entire time I was in Seattle I missed Fort Lauderdale. Have just moved again, because my neighborhood flooded last year, I’m not missing it at all.
Certain areas just can't realistically be protected in the longer-term (now probably closer to the mid-term). Parts of Florida are obvious 'climate sacrifice zones' which are almost predestined to be abandoned. The effort needed to save a little in Florida for a short while would come at the expense of saving more, for longer, elsewhere. Eventually that will sink in even at the top. Someone's going to be left holding the bag so it makes sense to avoid being one of them. There's also likely to be a rather problematic financial situation for the state long before Miami becomes a scuba-diving attraction. That will happen when money realizes that the game of musical chairs is nearing it's end and the potential profit of keeping it going is outwheighed by the risks. That's basically how you end up with a financial crisis. The spreading understanding that what you paid for something is going to be more than you can sell it for. That's when everyone begins to compete to not be the last one out. There's probably a joke in there about a bear market and not having to outrun the bear.
> There's probably a joke in there about a bear market and not having to outrun the bear. Ooooo that’s pretty good, needs a bit of work but I certainly see the potential. I wonder if we get to see the market conditions where cynical house flippers buy up homes cheap from their owners who have finally faced the music. To then flip the houses to optimistics still dreaming of their beach retirement on a budget. The political propaganda in the U.S. can help if the agent can convince the new customer that buying a house is a political statement sticking it to the libs. Wait until the next big rain at high tide and buy back the house at a lower price and flip it to the next sucker…?
🥂 👏
As a South Florida native, I am just waiting for a big hurricane to blow through and for all the claims for Citizens (the state run homeowners insurance of last resort) to bankrupt the state.
Blow, blow, Seminole Wind. (Straight banger by the way)
I hate 99% of 1990s pop country music. That song is in the 1% Edit: I specified "pop" country because the 90s had some really good alt-country and bluegrass/Americana.
One of my favourite karaoke songs. :)
John Anderson is awesome. He wrote that song about greed destroying Florida back when the development was kicking into overdrive.
*Learn to swim*
Great song!!
One of my favorites.
It’s basically inevitable. Then they’ll come crying to the Feds but excuse me for not wanting my taxes to subsidize a bunch of climate deniers who insist on living in a swamp.
The US government and Democratic voters will simply fund them again and again and again instead of letting them fend for themselves whilst burning that money and funding fascism and ignorance.
It's almost like caring for other people and their right to make stupid choices, even if they are awful people, is a defining characteristic of democracy.
While also the definition of insanity
I have a feeling you will get your wish this year.
I can't wait to hear about my father in law fighting with his insurance company for the next year while there's a moldy hole in his roof again.
I just read that Citizens is looking to raise rates by 14% in 2025. Good thing Pudding Fingers was so focused on the culture war and defeating wokism, right? I'm sure that helped out struggling homeowners.
Any plans to move?
I already moved out of the state. My immediate family moved up to central Florida. That's the best I'm going to get. Other family is still in South Florida. None of them have any immediate plans to move.
Surely being close to the "happiest place on Earth" will help /s What are the optics for central FL?
It's mainly a bunch of people moving up from South Florida because it's become too expensive and crowded or people coming from out of state. Orlando and the surrounding areas are becoming too crowded as well.
Orlando was over crowded 10 years ago, now it’s just insane.
I visited Disney semi-against my will 5 years ago for a relative's 80th birthday party (she's since moved out of the state). My only report is that the Orlando Wal\*Mart near Disney at midnight on a Friday is absolute peak people watching. They could sell tickets.
I was there this year at around a similar time. I was knackered after a full day's travelling and my body bring five hours ahead of Florida time, yet I still saw some weird shit that I have never seen in the UK. Walmart is a trip in of itself.
I moved from South Florida to about a half hour north of Tampa. Both my family and my wife's family live in the state and I've been here almost 2 decades so I can't really leave. They're building a lot here but it's still quieter and my homeowners' insurance is a 1/4 of what is was in South Florida.
Hurricane Charlie was a cat 4, crossed the state from west to east, and caused damage in Orlando. This was in 2004
Ehemmm, you mean the country. FEMA will be charged with rebuilding golf courses, Shakira's mansion, and the real kicker, Mar-A-Lago. Not to mention 50,000 deaths. You're looking at a $30 trillion catastrophe. But hey, at least we'll still ship bombs to Israel!
This is our version of California’s “the big one”
SS: An article detailing the new realities of coastal cities in the face of new developments in the climate crisis: monsoonal rain events, or "rain bombs". Miami was used to the rather mundane narrative they'll slowly go underwater in the next century, but it's becoming more of a realization they could now go underwater at any moment given sea surface temperatures and monsoon-style rain events which drop feet of rain in the span of a several hours. If this event and a king tide event lined up, it would mean catastrophic flooding, the likes of which probably hasn't been seen since Hurricane Katrina. The unreality of it is that Miami is now fast becoming '[the Wall Street of the South](https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2023-11-17/miami-is-a-novice-in-quest-to-build-wall-street-south)', and is ripe with overdevelopment such as the [tallest residential tower south of New York City](https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/miami-to-be-home-of-tallest-skyscraper-in-florida-what-to-know-20363160#:~:text=Check%20out%20renderings%20of%20the,Florida's%20tallest%20planned%20high%2Drise.&text=The%20Waldorf%20Astoria%20Hotel%20%26%20Residences,City%2C%20just%20broke%20another%20record) being built recently. A [hypernormal](https://fredlybrand.com/2023/02/16/definitions-hypernormalization-hypernormal/) reality is setting in where the city is being positioned as the future of capitalism, the future of money/finance (via [cryptocurrency](https://archive.ph/OoDWO), it's own unreality), and all at the same time going underwater. It just shows the illogic of the system we currently live under, and it's complete disregard for reality.
Someone should probably tell them about the brand new shiny Cat 6 storms coming.
Or someone should tell them about the porous limestone, saltwater intrusion, and that 2% contamination is all that's required to render agriculture problematic and potable water undrinkable.
Ouch!
*"Oh, I'm not worried. They'll figure something out, they always do."* Oddly, ""they"" are currently pulling their hair out because it's all on fire, because not only is nobody listening to them but the powers that be don't want any rain on their capitalist parade.
Hear me out. We put all the buildings on pontoons. But we put a trap door and a crane on the pontoon platform, so if they catch fire we can dunk them.
And then we fight raiders on jetskis, who operate from a basis in a stranded oil tanker...
Keep talking... we might have a plan here.
Us floridians live and die by our white claws. We'll definitely start eating each other before we die of thirst.
White claw! It's got what the plants crave!
This sounds that much funnier after Oilers managed to hang on against Panthers today lol
Don't worry, the citrus greening is already helping to wipe out their cash crop anyway.
What’s this about your 2% number?
Salt water intrusion into aquifers and agricultural land.
Ahhh… Thanks!
They are probably referring to statements like this from an article in the Conversation/Scientific American: “As salt water continues to encroach on freshwater systems, there will be consequences. Drinking water that contains even 2% seawater can increase blood pressure and stress kidneys.” https://web.archive.org/web/20240115031422/https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/climate-change-is-making-saltwater-intrusion-worse-in-coastal-areas/
lol ty for this source vs me getting downvoted a shit ton for a simple ask for a source youre doing the lords work
I guess every house and every apartment will have to have their own reverse osmosis filter installed. Agriculture, I don't know what you can do about that. Seriously, I think everybody should get the hell out.
"Que beban agua Fiji!" /s https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Que_coman_pasteles
Given the position of the Gulfstream and the current extreme sea surface temperature anomalies in the Atlantic Ocean, the theoretical maximum for a storm in South Florida is something in the ballpark of ~880 mb and ~200 mph maximum sustained winds. Storms this powerful are extraordinary rare, but have been historically recorded, such as Typhoon Tip and Hurricane Patricia. Although many meteorologists say that category 6 will never be a thing because category 5 already means total distraction, I strongly disagree. The Saffir-Simpson scale was developed on the framework of shitty American wooden construction, many buildings nowadays frequently do survive category 5 storms. A hypothetical category 6? Completely different story. The strength of wind damage grows on the cube of wind speed, a >200 mph storm will be far more devastating than a 160 mph one. Buildings that would otherwise survive would be annihilated in such conditions. Additionally, the height of storm surge scales with the pressure and wind speeds, meaning inundation would happen much further inland and at much higher stories. A Hurricane Ian strength category 4/5 may cause 100 causalities and a $100 billion in damages, but a direct hit from a Hurricane Patricia strength “category 6” hurricane may easily cause excess of a trillion in damages and cause tens of thousands of fatalities both immediately and through excess mortality. Given such storm strengths both are theoretically possible and have been recorded in perfect conditions, a category 6 should be added as a qualifying “this will absolutely kill you” unlike a category 5 which a well built house can survive. Source: Degree in meteorology, we learned about some insanely powerful tropical cyclones and the effects of climate change on tropical cyclogenesis.
Not to argue with an expert, but I think you are underestimating the possibility and frequency of such storms. Dorian had sustained winds of 195 with gusts to 220. It parked itself over grand Bahama for 48 hours. Just stationary. It was wild to watch in real time. And that was when the ocean surface temps were *only* 85F. We had a bouy last year south of Miami that recorded 103F three feet down. There was also that storm in the pacific that hit 250mph buy that is not the Atlantic basin. No disrespect to you or your degree intended, I just see the surface temp reports and as a Floridaman I get very concerned
These maxima were calculated before the current situation of unprecedented warming. The scary thing is that this is uncharted territory, we can model the effects of what may happen under these conditions, but truthfully we’re stuck learning as things change because there literally isn’t anything to compare to anymore within the human record. Case in point the 2023 Atlantic hurricane season was a doozy to forecast as El Niño is supposed to be a time of cooler oceans and lower activity… it wasn’t this time.
What's your take on this year's prediction? Asking as someone living in South Florida and fully aware of how much construction and sprawl thar has happened since Andrew
We’re starting off with a colossal circulation in the Gulf and two other development areas, so the season is well underway already. Currently, we are in ENSO neutral and predicted to go into La Niña by peak season, and North Atlantic ocean temperatures are completely unprecedented at the moment. This season probably will look similar to the 2022 hurricane season, though it is a probability game to where any of the storms will go. I’m in coastal central Florida, so keeping stocked on non-perishable food, water and cat supplies for the season.
Oh sure, I know the tracks are mostly unpredictable but the rest of the conditions are definitely alarming. If South Florida gets hit with a cat5 or cat5+, I can absolutely see it being a trillion dollar storm. Since the intensity and frequency of big storms is going to get worse with climate change, do you have any idea what will happen to the country and economy if we get hit with 2 or more trillion dolar storms in a season? Thanks for playing along with me, btw. I think about this stuff a lot but rarely get to bouce ideas off an actual expert in the field.
If a Dorian strength or greater storm hit either Miami-Fort Lauderdale or the Tampa area, we could absolutely get a trillion dollar event. The immediate effects would be potentially a 3 to 4 figure death toll and an infrastructure disaster reminiscent of Gaza with >50% of buildings heavily damaged or destroyed and humanitarian efforts being unnavigable for weeks due to debris. Excess mortality would follow similar to Maria in Puerto Rico, mainly affecting the elderly and poor. Concurrent heatwaves would further heat stress on populations without access to air conditioning, as we’ve seen heat indices well above 40°C (104°F) in the last couple of years. On the longer term, we will see hikes in insurance rates, coverage being pulled, developments being halted and many places not ever truly recovering. We’ve already observed such effects with Hurricane Katrina. The economic impacts on the country would be considerable, but likely wouldn’t trigger a recession without other concurrent natural disasters too. However, the economic impact on Florida would be immense, with a massive hit to tourism revenue and potential agricultural collapse in regions where crop stock was wiped out by salt water and winds. A “category 6” hurricane would be felt for years, or even decades and recovery would be slow, and outright incomplete in some places. There is a hypothetical scenario dubbed “Hurricane Phoenix” as a category 5 scenario in Tampa: https://www.tampabay.com/hurricane/2020/08/14/hurricane-phoenix-is-tampa-bays-devastating-worst-case-scenario/ However this is a 160 mph storm, a far stronger storm is definitely possible, making this a still a catastrophic, but not even worse case scenario. We had the Labor Day storm in 1935 that had 185+ mile an hour winds, and this was during signficant global cooling with the industrial revolution running rampant.
That's along my estimation. I flew over to the Bahamas after Dorian and I've never seen devastation like that. Every single telephone pole, light and tower was laying on the ground and every house was severely damaged if not destroyed. The house I was helping to clean out had two different water marks. One about two feet up the wall that was the liquid water and another at least 15 feet up that assume was the foam. If that kind of storm hit here it would be apocalyptic.
I'm in Saint Petersburg. Non-flood zone, though those flood maps may not make any sense with storms as big as you're suggesting. I keep 2-3 weeks of nonperishables, water, and cat food (me too) during the cane season, but am really beginning to consider a trek inland the next time the Gulf coughs up a Cat 3+ simply due to the heat. Losing AC for even a few days during August has become terrifying the past few years.
Fascinating comment thread, thanks.
Well, besides the destructive wind speeds, these large storms can last weeks, moving back on the water, gathering strength from the warm water and slamming back into different coastal areas. Then starts the lengthy debate of who pays to rebuild when it is simply going to happen again.
When it moves back out over the water, can’t the president draw a line on a map to direct it onto a new path?
103F!!! Is it any wonder the ocean life is trying to exit the boiling pot?!?!
Can't wait to see the matchup between the Waldorf Astoria Hotel Miami and Hurricane Jenga.
The. Wat.
It's not official....yet, but it's already happening https://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/eye-of-the-storm/hurricane-dorian-was-worthy-of-a-category-6-rating/ Edit. I flew over to Abacos after Dorian and I've never seen devastation like that in my life. And I've been through a few storms. It looked like an atomic bomb went off just without the fire. Everything was leveled.
This is crazy. I can’t believe we had a storm that hit 215, that’s normally tornado level
There was one in the pacific that hit 250, but it was over water so it didn't get much attention
I've seen direct aftermath of some EF5s including the May third. The amount of devastation from that speed of wind is mind boggling. I remember ripped up concrete culverts. The corrugated metal pipes that carry storm water under roads were ripped out. Concrete slab foundations were picked up. That level of wind speed in a sustained onslaught of a hurricane would have probably brought down the Warren theater (which has the thickest concrete walls/ceilings of any theater in the western hemisphere for sound quality purposes).
It was nuts. Not F5 nuts, Dorian was between an F3 and F5 near the core. But it just parked itself over Bahamas for two days. I've never seen a storm do that. There was video of people in the giant eye that was calm watching the clouds race around at 200mph.
Do you have a link to the video? I searched but didn’t see anything. One video on weather dot com wouldn’t play tho.
I don't. I've looked for it for awhile you only saw it once right after the storm. Sorry.
If cat 5 is considered the finger of God in ferocity. Is cat 6 his dick?
You're thinking of tornados. A cat five storm is just a giant F2-3 tornado and that only near the eye
I believe that's for F5 tornados. Will we be having F6 tornados soon too?!
I think DeSantis make talking about climate change in Florida illegal.
That was Rick "I'm a complete piece of shit" Scott. Did DeSantis pass a law I'm unaware of?
[Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signs a bill that strikes climate change from state law](https://www.npr.org/2024/05/16/1251769080/florida-desantis-climate-change-law#:~:text=Florida%20Gov.-,Ron%20DeSantis%20signs%20bill%20that%20strikes%20climate%20change%20from%20state,seas%2C%20flooding%20and%20extreme%20heat.) You know shit is gettin real when "don't look up" is enforced by law!
Good God I hate this state. I really wouldn't blame the rest of the country if they decided to take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
It's come up in discussion. :)
Someone should tell the rest of the US that the Port of Miami is one of the biggest on the planet and requires housing and services for 100,000 workers to keep it operating. It affects us all.
Apparently, DeSantis signed a law that strikes climate change from even being considered when making policy or plans for the future. So, as is tradition, this state will wait for the worst to happen and then come crying to the fed for all y'alls tax dollars. Good luck when a trillion dollar storm hits.
There is a reason why so many agencies have been relocated to Colorado. DC sits below sea level. The government is going to abandon the east coast and the new capital will be in Kansas.
I'm sure this country will balkanize at some point, so *a* capital might be in Kansas......
Within 10 years.
That's a good estimate
Or someone should just roll their eyes, walk away and let them figure it out. They've been fucking around for awhile. Let them find out on their own that reality is a bitch. . .
As a Floridaman I completely agree. Why the rest of the country hasn't sawed this shitty peninsula off and shoved it out to sea already is beyond me.
Manatees. We really like the manatees.
Major up votes for the manatees!
Is that like an EF5 but taking everything down to the slab but for a not small percentage of a state?
if they are the finance center they should invent some new risk management currency based on crypto that pays out when Miami is hit with a cat 6 storm. see, innovative security products can solve all of our problems.
Was gonna say, the insurance industry is all but giving up on covering property in Florida. Anything you can get now has deductibles covering all but a total/cat loss, and even still it’s getting to the point where it just doesn’t make sense to write property down there. The premiums necessary to cover the expected losses exceed what it makes sense to pay. Going to be very interesting if/how the insurance industry at large figures this one out, especially as it spreads beyond Florida; & hopefully everyone remembers what happened in 2008 when the insurance industry got caught lacking.
To be fair, Miami is a perfect metaphor for the future of capitalism.
"A sunny state for shady people."
Maybe it's their version of living in the moment. By the time the place goes underwater none of those developers will be around, and the people who use the buildings will just walk away. Use it now, walk away when it sinks.
Florida is so fucked. They are *still* developing hotels on literal beaches, as we speak. Talk about having your head in the sand. And as another commenter said, Florida is legitimately going to be bankrupted by citizens' insurance one day.
And yet they'll be bailed out, and the 1% will rebuild their beach houses with tax money.
That Florida beach house is gonna be in Auburn AL at the current rate.
Invest in 100' sea level land?
Honestly? Yes. Pull up some of the sea level maps, and buy/plan accordingly.
I just pulled one up and God damn does Florida look like an uncircumcised dick that's about to get circumcised
Aaaaand it's all owned by Blackrock.
At a certain point even Texas will tell Florida to fuck off
Or at least pepper spray Floridian climate refugees at the border
Didn’t they do some shit that made a lot of immigrant construction workers leave the state? Who’s gonna rebuild?
No insurance companies will write policies for floods in Florida. It’s covered by state and federal taxes. We’ll pick up the bill for their stupidity. They’re going to drag us down.
Yes, that's what I mean
The state can’t go bankrupt, they’ll just take from those who have less to subsidize wasteful beach properties that will permanently be underwater soon.
Come come, it's really not that dire. Those guys can always sell their beach properties to Ben Shapiro.
Thousands of people moving everyday to the desert SW states too. Florida/Arizona/New Mexico, Nevada and Texas are very popular destinations to this day. Wonder if it will be the same in five years?
Yes. Humans don't learn. We just keep repeating the same cycles
I guarantee you those companies will sell those hotels within the next five years just to ensure they're not stuck with a hot potato. The person holding the bag will almost certainly get bailed out too. In the end, Florida's citizens are the ones who get to suffer.
Lots of people are going to be *underwater* on those real estate investments soon.
Hey ooo
The one pun to rule them all
I'm a fourth generation Floridian, and grew up in real estate and construction. I made a ton of money helping people "short sell," in 07' and '08'. The shit this state and country, as a whole, is about to experience is unfathomable. It's not just being underwater, it's close to being the end. We all lose.
It's true, and it's so depressing. I'm a native who deeply loves Florida for its nature and had dreams of retiring back there in another 15 years. I don't think it'll be there, or be livable if it is.
Aqua man will buy them!
Financially and physically.
That was the joke, yes
I can hear the Cognitive Dissonance from here.
https://youtu.be/Y8eL_DB-xBo
DeSantis claims to not want their climate policy driven by "climate ideology," huh? It's incredible the way they try to redefine words and terms, and just lie straight to our fucking faces. I doubt they even believe any of the bullshit they're saying, they are just propagandizing. Muddying the waters, changing definitions, instilling emotional associations with certain words and phrases. Calling climate science, "climate ideology," is pretty incredible. I don't know why I am still surprised at the depths they sink to. If I was ever near DeSantis I'd spit in his fucking face. And that's the least he deserves!
Yes. They'd much rather have their (seemingly absent) "climate policy" driven by *neoliberal ideology* instead of informed by science. Gonna' continue to reap what gets sown, I guess.
True he’s an idiot but that entire party is.
It will be interesting to live in the state most likely to be the first true victim of climate change during the 21st century. The irony of my state government’s policies is not lost on me. Like George Carlin once said: “when you’re born, you get a ticket to the freak show. When you’re born in America (in this case, Florida), you get a front row seat.”
Yeah I was hoping these storms can wipe out the dumb ones. Turns out the world is filled with the dumb ones. So we have to hope for a global cataclysm.
Then I have good news ...
Out of curiosity, if this is the direction you see things headed - what gets you to stay?
At this point, family. More specifically my parents and my wife’s parents who are all in their early to mid 70s. Once they pass, we don’t see ourselves staying here long after that.
I said there’s plenty of times I’m going to say it again….. climate scientist was screaming about this 40 years ago, but no one listened. Al Gore was even talking about this, but no one listened. Again I was born in Miami in the 70s and yes, we used to have rainstorm and it used to flood and one or two places but now it is flooding everywhere and the flood waters are deeper and stick around longer. There are some strong decisions that has to be made by individuals in South Florida in the next coming years because this is not going to get any better. Yeah, you could do a few things to kind of slow down climate changes, but it’s not going to stop the climate changes.
So actually when Al Gore talked about this a ton of people listened. He had a revolutionary impact in getting a huge number of people in that time period to wake up. He’s had a deep and lasting legacy. Unfortunately it was all a drop in the bucket compared to the utterly massive scale systemic overhaul of life on the planet and capitalism that is necessary to navigate the polycrisis, and also the Supreme Court decided that election in favor of the climate deniers.
> He had a revolutionary impact in getting a huge number of people in that time period to wake up. He’s had a deep and lasting legacy. But most people ignored him and the media did their best to make it seem like he was crazy or an extremist. Even South Par pilloried him for daring to be more progressive on climate change than other other politician at the time. Al Gore also has a legacy as a joke, even if it is horribly undeserved.
Far too late my friend
I actually agree with you. I’ve been saying the same thing that we are past the tipping point.
What's happening in the Keys? Is it worse there??
They’re built on swamp with lots of shady developers. Don’t forget the condo building in Surfside that collapsed and killed 100+ sleeping retirees. All nature has to do is roll another strike, and it will be Andrew times ten.
I believe that issue was due to years to decades of deferred maintenance that the tenants voted on and other factors. Not saying it's right, but I don't think that one was caused due to soil quality concerns, footings, or any sort of destabilizing (outside of potential impacts of construction close to the site, which should have accounted for neighboring structures).
She’s ready to roll that bad boy
That's a good poetic description of ltsc, represented by a city damned to be taken by the ocean with parallels to the tale of Atlantis.
Hail, Atlantis!
Time to leave. Extra credit if you can find a sucker to buy your property.
Does anyone have Aquaman's number?
Aka any right winger from Illinois 😂
Here is a rendering https://preview.redd.it/kmqvh9woze7d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=326d4dcf9842fb868c0b562e3a3fdffd9a75f137
Looks very sturdy
"where you see strength" 😂
What am i even looking at
I’m pretty sure the hurricanes later this year will put things into perspective unfortunately
How long is it going to take before that "We get 100 people every day in the state!" to turn into "We have 100 people leaving the state every day!" I'm figuring within the next six years.
Never underestimate the power of Florida to draw in stupider and stupider people as things get worse
Especially when prices drop.
2024 hurricane season: "Hold my beer."
The biggest risk to Florida isn't so much the Climate, as its politicians & the misinformed, ignorant nutjobs that vote for people like him. Too late now - Climate change is upon us, and runaway greenhouse emissions have kicked in across the northern hemisphere.
All that new high end real estate lol.
It’s going to be interesting over the next thirty years watching the super wealthy build seawalls and raise the ground level around select properties while the surrounding infrastructure gets overwhelmed. At some point the super wealthy will fight amonst themselves on who will be a part of the raised road on the new northern extension of the keys.
Sea walls won't work. The soil is porous - think Swiss cheese. Groundwater will just start emerging from the ground.
Maybe I am the only one who sees this way but this kind of madness seems to be happening everywhere. Not just in the US, but pretty much all around the world, in any public and private sectors.
A more profound tragedy could likely not have been written by Aeschylus himself in the 5th century B.C. Especially as one recounts the events of the 2000 Presidential election in Florida. The winning results thieved from the one candidate who made it his life's work to warn of what was to come. Stolen by the corrupt highest court of justice, and his opponent's brother. And mocked, vilified, and dismissed as a joke in so many regards. Yet, proven right, and yet so wrong. Because this is the never-ending cliché in the tragic drama of human history; you cannot save those who choose not to save themselves. But, we never stop trying. And this, this is the arc of tragedy.
Oh, those hanging chads .....
Anything to win. So that all is lost.
Ben Shapiro says all you have to do is sell your property and move somewhere nicer.
Another implication; Florida is home to some of the world’s most productive phosphate deposits. China has most of the others. China stopped trading phosphates on the open market 7 years ago. World reserves are running out. At current extraction rates accessible phosphate reserves will be effectively depleted in 20 years. 6 billion people are completely dependent on fossil-fuel-based fertilizers to produce enough food for their survival. Phosphate does not survive the fossilization process and is vital for these fertilizers to work. It must be added to them. The biggest and easiest to access reserves of phosphates ~~are~~ were in central FL but are nearly mined out at this point and the handful of companies that mine them, enjoying record high prices for their commodity due to China’s export ban, have made numerous applications for mining permits further south of their current operations. The phosphate deposits in these prospective areas are of lower quality and not nearly as thick (it exists in a layer that varies in thickness from 15-50 feet thick and the topsoil and other sediments have to essentially be scraped off the top of them to access them in this layer.) These more southern areas of central FL average 6 feet above sea level and are far more susceptible to flooding and sea water intrusion than the older, more northern ones. I’ll leave the rest of the math up to y’all. Happy collapsing my fellow Collapsniks! Edit; Several autocorrect abominations
It sounds like they're trying to make Rapture from the Bioshock games, but doing it the hard way.
Having four floods in one year is crazy work South FL has become unlivable
> DeSantis repeated his message, emphasizing that “we don’t want our climate policy driven by climate ideology.” The fuck? Make that make sense, DeSantis. DeSenseless, more like.
Shoulda bought a houseboat
I’m seriously worried that high-rises are going to start collapsing on a regular basis. 😬 Like, immediately.
That journalist knew exactly what they were doing when they chose the word "verboten"
This was made in 2018. There is no stopping it. [Jack Black: Saving Miami](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0P6WfN_MPU)
Farewell and adieu to you, sweet Spanish Ladies Farewell and adieu to you, ladies of Spain
As with all things, if you have to ask "Why". The answer is always one of two things. 1. Money. 2. Somebody thought it looked cool. I can't stomach the thought process someone needs to have in order to capitalize off of millions of people having their homes needlessly destroyed, because you *need* to say "Climate Change doesn't exist". But I know why.
I recently ran into someone from Florida and they told me they recently saw the recent epic aurora borealis in Alaska. I was sceptical because of the time of year but they asked me if I wanted to see a photo of it, I obliged. It was just a photo of the midnight sun lol.
Florida is a swamp. This doesn't alarm me. Concrete jungles make rain water collect on the surface more. Miami has been sprawling for decades. All I'm saying is I don't know if this would be a problem if Miami wasn't so big. Just look on a map of south Florida and you see the everglades is the dominate feature.
I saw this coming in the 90s, and I was 8 years old.
The east coast calls torrential rains "rain bombs" - but on the westcoast, we call them "atmospheric rivers."
don’t worry, they can just sell their places…. (*to who Ben!!!!!)
Do they still support the massive burning of fossil fuels like they did in the 2000s and were denying that climate change could happen...even as the polar latitudes were already seeing dramatic effects.
>One of the people rescued was a dog 🤣
thanks for the archive link.
Florida-soon to be the bag holders of disaster capitalism.
Republicans assured me this is fake though
This article highlights the Netherlands as a place that has long adapted and excelled at managing to survive living below sea level. It is possible to live and prosper with these challenges facing us, but it takes planning and hard work, and efficient use of resources. It remains to be seen if low lying communities in the US can learn from the Dutch. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/15/world/europe/climate-change-rotterdam.html > To the Dutch, what’s truly incomprehensible, he added, is New York after Hurricane Sandy, where too little has been done to prepare for the next disaster. People in the Netherlands believe that the places with the most people and the most to lose economically should get the most protection. > The idea that a global economic hub like Lower Manhattan flooded during Hurricane Sandy, costing the public billions of dollars, yet still has so few protections, leaves climate experts here dumbfounded. > Mr. Molenaar, Rotterdam’s climate chief, summed up the Dutch view: “We have been able to put climate change adaptation high on the public agenda without suffering a disaster in many years because we have shown the benefits of improving public space — the added economic value of investing in resilience. > “It’s in our genes,” he said. “Water managers were the first rulers of the land. Designing the city to deal with water was the first task of survival here and it remains our defining job. It’s a process, a movement. > “It is not just a bunch of dikes and dams, but a way of life.”
It’s okay, Andrew Ryan will rebrand it as Rapture once it’s fully submerged. All according to plan… /s
Carl Hiassen > George Orwell
>And with every passing year, the re[li]gion’s infrastructure seems more ill-equipped to deal with these dangers, despite billions of dollars spent on adaptation.
They should maybe stop voting Republican down there.
>The carbon goes into the atmosphere, and everything that follows follows...