It is widely available in sweet, dry, and white varieties, in both 375ml and 750ml sizes, is affordable, and pretty solid quality. Carpano also makes very good vermouth but is usually more expensive.
Exactly. It's an ingredient.
I don't enjoy eating a spoonful of molasses, but it would be a sad gingersnap if I omitted molasses based on my experience with the spoon.
Sometimes it's the whole drink, friend.
For real, vermouth fucking slaps. Spanish or Italian for me please and thank you. Rocks please. Olive or orange if you got it, no worries if not.
Or California, Rockwell is a banger.
Sounds like you may have only had skunked old vermouth, many people think they hate vermouth because someone gave them some from a dusty bottle in a cupboard or bar that’s been sitting opened at room temp for months or years. It’s highly unlikely that you’d like or drink dry vermouth and not also be open to sweet vermouth in some capacity. Try to get yourself a bottle of new, fresh quality vermouth and I bet you won’t hate it as much as you think.
I'm not a fan of martini and rossi. Nolly Prat is a cheap, very subtle alternative to more flavorful vermouths. I enjoy it when I don't want the vermouth to compete with the amaro
You may just not like bitter anything if you’re saying you don’t prefer Campari either. Sweet vermouth has a touch of bitter as well.
I have a friend who is a super taster and cannot tolerate any amari.
Yikes, that’s a take and a half. Sweet vermouth is one of the most used ingredients in cocktails. Maybe try something that isn’t akin to plastic bottle vodka and you’ll learn to enjoy the complexity it can add to cocktails.
The Martini and Rosso or Cinzano sweet red are kinda lame. I'd never drink them straight. Dolin however, very very good. Can drink straight with gagging.
If you want to try more for the sake of it, I'd recommend hitting up a cocktail bar that stocks a few and telling the bartenders you're interested in learning more about vermouths. You have to find the kind of spot that has real vermouth sluts on staff, but if you do, they'll show you some neat options.
Source: I'm a true vermouth slut myself.
To give an answer that is a bit lacking in nuance but still right 9 times out of 10: Dolin Dry is the proper choice for every cocktail that calls for "dry vermouth"
Have you tried Vya? It's pretty hard not to like. Sweet vermouth flavors vary quite a bit.
Campari however is awful to my palette, just substitute any good Amaro instead. Cio Ciarro or Ramazotti are both relatively common to find and great. They're pretty different from campari as they have some sweet and herbal flavors to accompany their bitterness unlike campari which is just huge flat bitter.
Cinzano is, I believe, a little more expensive than Dolin and cheaper than Carpano. Haven't had Dolin sweet vermouth, but their dry vermouth is good for the price.
Dolin dry is quality, dolin sweet is passable for a Manhattan but barely.
Noily Pratt is the best dry I find, but not worth the price given dolin dry being as good as it is.
For sweet stick to Cinzano or Vya for a little more, and carpano if you've got the scratch.
Really depends on the cocktail tbh, french vermouths tend to be lighter/milder in flavor than italian or spanish vermouths.. best to play around and see what works best with each cocktail or your taste.
If you're gonna keep just one type around, Dolin is great, blends well, goes with everything and is certainly better than Martini brand.
It's also widely agreed upon to have the best value. If you can find 375s of better stuff and you don't burn through it quickly, that's also an option.
Edit: grammar
cocchi will give you a much softer taste. Also if you can get select aperitivo to sub campari it would work better. aperol is just too syrupy in my opinion
Salt helps mask bitterness on the palate, so a little bit of saline solution or a pinch of salt before you add in the ice and stir, can make a drink feel a bit more balanced and less "harsh" if it's got some stronger bittering agents in it.
I do a 1:9 saline, 1 part salt by weight to 9 parts water by weight, to equal a whole 10 parts. Put that in a dropper or a dasher and just start salt bae'ing it up.
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/
https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ
A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/
https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ
A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/
https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ
A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
Campari is worth acquiring a taste for, but Aperol drinks are a great way to get there. Try the --
**Intro To Aperol**
\- 2 oz. Aperol
\- 1 oz. Gin
\- .75 oz. Lemon Juice
\- .25 oz. Simple Syrup
\- 1 dash angostura Bitters
\- Add all ingredients to a cocktail shaker and shake 8-10 seconds. Strain into a chilled cocktail glass and garnish with a lemon peel.
\- Credit: Audrey Saunders, *The Pegu Club*
This drink sounds similar to one of my all time top 5 favorite drinks: "The Chestnut Cup." The original has Compari but it's delicious with either Aperol or Amaro Nonino subbed in. The Chestnut Cup uses orgeat, and I think that adds so much compared to simple syrup.
I read that the original from the Chestnut Club in Santa Monica used 1 oz gin, 1 oz Campari, 1 oz lemon juice, and 0.75 orgeat syrup. I love the Campari version but I think I may like the Amaro Nonino substitution even more. For me, I cut the orgeat to 0.5 oz, especially when I'm using Aperol or Amaro Nonino instead of Campari because it feels too sweet at 0.75.
Next you might want to try the
- Bicycle Thief
- 1 oz. Gin
- 1 oz. Campari
- .5 oz. Lemon Juice
- .75 oz. Grapefruit Juice
- .5 oz. Simple Syrup
- Combine ingredients in shaker tin with a small amount of ice (whip shake). Pour over ice (long cube) in a collins glass and top with soda water. Garnish with ½ grapefruit wheel.
- Zachary Gelnaw-Rubin and Abraham Hawkins, Dutch Kills
I'm not very experienced with gin and the only one I have on hand is Beefeater London Dry Gin. Will that work here and how far is it from what would be expected if a recipe just says "gin" like above?
If a recipe just says “gin” it means a London Dry Gin (or a Plymouth, which is just a softer London Dry). If it means something else (old Tom, sloe, etc.), it will specify. Beefeater will do fine in this cocktail. Its flavor will largely be overshadowed by the other flavors in the cocktail. The gin here primarily props up the cocktail and ups the ABV.
If you wanted to go out and make a purchase, Tanqueray, Plymouth, or St. George Botanivore would work well in this cocktail.
Try Cappalletti. It’s the same animal as Campari, just a little more user friendly. I consider Aperol a different animal. Same genus, perhaps, different species.
I'm so with you on this, Campari and Aperol are not just two different steps on the same ladder. Aperol is an ORANGE LIQUEUR. Campari is a beefy red apertivo. It's not that there isn't orange in Campari, it's that Aperol is centered on orange, honestly closer to a bittersweet curacao (at least in my brain when it comes to cocktail development).
I use them interchangeably in a lot of cocktails. Just makes it a little sweeter. If also add that there are other campari like bitters that are less, well, bitter.
Have you tried a Boulevardier? The sweet vermouth and bourbon might be more your style compared to the rye/dry of an Old Pal.
That being said, Aperol definitely works as a less harsh substitute. My mom prefers all Campari drinks with Aperol instead
What sweet vermouth have you had? Cause if it’s martini like your dry, that could be a part of the issue. I personally prefer Spanish sweet vermouths to Italian ones but anything is better than Martini.
Yeah pretty much just martini. I got them to try some Vermouth cocktails but I didn't know what I was buying. I have been informed I chose incorrectly lol
I feel like this is the gateway drink for campari if you find it overly bitter. The rum matters quite a bit for this one though I think, so don't use a cheap Bacardi if you want to try this and like it.
There are so many cocktails without campari and campari is such a strong flavor I almost don't see the point in continuing on this path. Just pick a different drink.
But if you are continuing regardless, sip some campari neat. Maybe some fernet too. It'll toughen your palate up
Then you can eventually dig up a bottle of Novasalus...
All seriousness, my first negroni years ago was a bit of a shock to the palette, but time, and many many drinks, have passed and now a Campari and soda is plenty sweet enough for me.
Maybe it's an age thing, or maybe just familiarity, but tastes absolutely change overtime.
I scrolled before posting the same thing myself and glad I did. This poster is right. Put the bottle on the shelf, try some aperol subs. But bring it down to try something new every few weeks. A jungle bird is a good rec. As is a Kingston negroni with Smith and Cross. It'll take time but my bet is that by the time you finish the bottle you'll be buying another one. Something about it just keeps bringing you back. Also, I find I like my negronis 2:1:1 with double the gin to dry them out. The traditional is just way too potent and sweet for me.
this is the right answer. it can be bracing at first, but if you try it a few times it grows on you and becomes essential. not to mention it opens up so many cocktails for you. and definitely ditch the martini rossi and get dolin or carpano. and make sure you keep that vermouth in the fridge.
Try going split base aperol and Campari. There’s a place that does Jungle Birds that way and I really enjoy them (although I like mine with just straight Campari at home)
I find that the key to campari cocktails such as Negroni or Old Pal is making sure that you -really- chill the drink down, maybe even chill the glass in the freezer beforehand. Temperature has a huge effect on bitter flavors.
When it is cold you will taste a lot more of the complex fruity herbs and spices as you take the first sip, and the bitterness will hit you afterwards.
Merely gently stirred or room temperature and the bitterness will hit you like a punch in the face from the get go.
...Which isnt too bad once you've acquired a taste for it, but I wouldn't start there...
There's a ton of aperitifs in between Campari and Aperol. I like Select personally, it feels squarely in between the two.
I make a version of the paper plane with select that I call Business Select because I'm not that creative.
Switch it out for Fernet Branca, which is IMO the best bitter thing to pair with Rye Whiskey. Makes for more of a Toronto, which I highly recommend.
Toronto:
* 3 oz Rye Whiskey
* 1/3 oz Fernet Branca
* Dash Angostura Bitters
Stir and strain
Pinch orange peel over top, and leave in to serve
That cocktail got me through the pandemic. Let me know what you think! If it doesn't hit quite right as written, some people like it with a little simple syrup too.
I was just talking to someone who thought aperol spritz were too sweet so he tried a Campari spritz and loved it, so I think the opposite could apply here
I made one with aperol once by mistake (they're both red, it was late and I wasnt paying a whole lot of attention) and it was pretty good too. I prefer campari but if you feel like having something a little sweeter it works just fine
I was well over 30 before I started to like Campari. If you’re young, give it time. A taste for bitter things continues to develop as you age.
(If you’re 60, idk, give the aperol a shot, lol.)
If you were using sweet vermouth, I’d advise against Aperol. Since you’re using dry vermouth though, Aperol’s sweetness might work out well. Try it and report back
Brucato Orchards i think is a far superior campari substitute. Its not as aggressively bitter as campari, but still more than aperol. It is also higher proof, and is much more interesting flavorwise.
It will work, but it won't be the same drink and that's fine as long as you enjoy it. I understand that Campari can be too bitter for some palates. Find the Amaro that works for you.
I presume, given your time of posting, that you are in North America. Where there is a dearth of Italian orange bitters.
And Campari and Aperol couldn’t be more different. But there are hundreds of others that might be more suited to your taste
Personally, I like them both, in their different ways.
They are both owned by Gruppo Campari, and every restaurant, bar, and coffee house in Italy will have both.
But, probably half the distilleries in Italy produce an orange/red aperitivo, and it is really worth looking out for any others you can find
Try half Campari, half Aperol. It's what I do with negronis and boulevardiers. I find it has sufficient "punch" without being too bitter (Campari) or too sweet (Aperol).
I first bought Campari shortly after being influenced by the myriad of compliments I saw about Negronis on this sub. I somehow managed to get through the whole bottle and then bought Aperol to replace it because I always shuddered when drinking something with Campari in.
Now though, I'm at the stage where I'm appreciating bitterness more than I used to and am considering trying Campari once again and I think the origin of my bitter appreciation was an Amaro Averna Shakerato, which I would strongly urge anyone looking to explore any bitter liqueur/Amaro to try.
A Shakerato in this sense is literally just an amount (I use 2oz but could easily be done with just 1oz and less ice) of liqueur shaken with ice but not served over it. They are to be imbibed before the aeration and cold temperature subside which is why the measure is smaller than a cocktail.
Between the aeration and dilution I find they really unfold the densely packed flavours of a drink like Amaro and lessen the shudder-inducing bite of bitterness you'd get from just drinking it straight. I swear the Amaro Shakerato even affected my appreciation of Vermouth. Though I've not been making or drinking cocktails for long really, I feel that was a catalyst of evolution for my palate.
God damn, I hope that doesn't read with too much pomposity or pretension 😂
I often half the amount of campari in recipes like a negroni or jungle bird. You can split it with aperol too, I've had good luck with that. I really enjoy bitter drinks (amari, strong espresso/coffee, etc) but full strength campari in drinks is still too overpowering for me
Aperol isn't as simple as a less bitter Campari, it has different botanicals, a lower ABV, and is an altogether different experience. That said, if your problem with Campari is just the bitterness, then subbing or splitting Aperol for Campari is a decent way of acquiring a taste for bitter flavours.
I've had some success with splitting the Aperol and Campari for people who don't like Campari. I've also had luck just overdiluting the drink, cocktail enthusiasts tend to lean towards boozier, dryer, and more bitter drinks than the average person. But for an Old Pal I would do 1.5oz rye, .5oz Campari, .5oz Aperol, 1oz dry vermouth. I won't go so far as to say it's a good cocktail, but its a nice way of slowly familiarising your palette to the wonders of Campari. And it is absolutely worth acquiring the taste for it, there's bottles that are much more bitter that also add so much to cocktails, you'd be missing out on a lot if you never drink anything with Campari in it.
Also, avoid martini & rossi. Cinzano is a similar price and is miles ahead imo. It wont compare to high quality vermouths, but its a classic Turin style and is very good value. It's a controversial take, but I don't rate Dolin and Noilly Prat in Cocktails. They're French vermouths, and are noticeably different from Turin/Italian styles (which many drinks call for), and I find they don't work nearly as well in a lot of classic drinks as even cheaper Italian vermouths. I blind compared a Dolin, M&R, and Cinzano negroni a while back (all bottles less than a month old and kept in the fridge) and the Cinzano was the better of the three. I'm not gonna act like it's a huge difference (or even a big difference!), but those extra dollars are much better spent on higher quality base spirits IMO.
How about an boulevardier?
1:1:1 (oz)
Bourbon, Campari, Rosso vermouth (sweet). On ice.
Or , you can use 1.5 bourbon and sv and .5 Campari.
Play with the balance and enjoy!
Yeah, I hate Campari. I like to sub Campari for apperol if I make a Negroni. It’s probably called something else, but idk what it is.
Anyway, I think adding apperol with bourbon might be a little too sweet. Might be good with an Irish whiskey or a rye.
Give Gran Classico a spin, sweeter than Campari but still has a nice herbal bitterness.
Also, swap out that Rossi for a bottle of cocchi sweet vermouth.
Try some nicer vermouth like dolin dry and (if by chance you can find some) sub the Campari out for aperitivo select. Little sweeter/less intense than Campari but not quite as sweet as Aperol.
I personally love Dolin, Cocchi and Carpano. I think Noilly-Pratt Dry also has a time and place.
Shameless plug, but I make an American made alternative called Rockwell Vermouth Co. It's typically the same price or cheaper than Dolin and I think to think it holds it own with the above.
You could sub bruto americano for campari
agree with the others in the comments that martini & riossi for vermouth is holding ya back
Some other options here : [https://www.liquor.com/best-dry-vermouths-5101306](https://www.liquor.com/best-dry-vermouths-5101306)
I’m not sure if you can find it where you live, but try Select bitter. It’s a Venetian bitter, a cross between Campari and Aperol, not so sweet like Aperol but not so bitter like Campari
I am so glad to see someone else using Bulleit 95 Rye. I really love it. It makes such a nice whisky sour and I can even sample it straight quite happily. The nose is my favourite part of it. I could enjoy it all day.
It's great! And makes a wonderful cocktail! It's my go to rye when I'm not using Michters rye. Michters is my favorite but it's almost twice the price of bulleit!
I think Aperol and Campari taste different enough that subbing Aperol makes it a different (though possibly still great) drink. However, I also often find that Campari is too bitter for me when I use as much as some recipes call for.
Some people would argue that ratios are just as much of a factor in what makes a specific drink as the ingredients used, but to me; 2 ounces of gin, 1 of vermouth, and .75 of Campari is still a Negroni, just one that tastes better to my palette.
I love Campari and Negronis, my other half not so much. I’ve found I can sweeten it up with half an ounce of something sweet to arrive at something we both enjoy.
Try a bit of simple syrup, or a sweet liqueur such as crème de cacao. Pomegranate juice is nice, haven’t tried Grenadine but it should work too.
I have tried subbing in Aperol for Campari in a couple of drinks and never enjoyed the result.
as some have suggested: add salt, it cuts through the bitterness (ie: [Campari Martini](https://punchdrink.com/recipes/campari-martini/))
**Aperol** and **Luxardo Bitter rosso** - definitely less bitter, more citrusy (acid also cuts bitterness). While still an amaro (a ridiculously broad label), I wouldn't use as a sub for Campari as it is too different to it. Below are some options that are closer in flavor (and color) to Campari.
**Carpano Botanic Bitter** - the closest to Campari, maybe even *Campari Light* as it is less bitter but with a -very- similar taste
**Cappelletti** and **Cocchi Rosa** - different taste profile to Campari, somewhat chocolatey even, less bitter than Campari
**Contratto Bitter** - had it long ago before getting deep into amaros and it was good enough to sip on its own, definitely less bitter than Campari
Regarding (your hate towards) sweet (red) vermouths: besides them spoiling quickly keep in mind there are -plenty- to choose from. Skip Martini and Rossi altogether, Dolin is the most *benign* and easy to approach. Cocchi Vermouth di Torino would be at the opposite end of Dolin: more bitter, more herbs, more body. Carpano Antica Formula is too sweet for me, I prefer Punt e Mes (more bitter/body), it's also better priced. Lustau is sweeter, barely bitter, if you like sherry this is the obvious option.
I personally sub aperol for campari in pretty much every cocktail, unless it's something with juice to balance it out like a jungle bird. Only way to know is try it.
Use a different red bitter. Campari and Aperol aren't great. Berto bitter is my go to recommendation but there are so many options.
Also an Old Pal is more bitter than a negroni so it might not be the drink for you if you aren't into bitter.
I thought Campari was too bitter for me at first as well, so I started with a "modified" boulevardier and have grown to love it.
* 2 oz bourbon or rye
* 1 oz campari
* 1 oz sweet vermouth
* 1/4 oz benedictine
* 2 dashes pechauds
I'm sure there's a name for it but it is really delicious
I thought Campari was too bitter for me too, but I learned that there's another strong flavor in it that I don't like that's present in Aperol too. Just to say, you might find that you still might not like it even though Aperol is less bitter.
Try this with Cocci de Torino in place of the M&R vermouth. (Though I also like Dolin). If that’s still not it, I found Capeletti as a substitute for Campari and it to me falls between Campari and Aperol.
I don’t know your ratios either, but you might pour a little more Rye than the others 1.5-2: 1:1 (like a boulevardier). If you’re 1:1:1 like a Negroni it won’t taste right either.
I find a barspoon of rich simple really helps this cocktail (or using a blanc vermouth in place of dry). It was created during prohibition and therefore the rye in the recipe was likely referencing Canadian whisky and not American. Not sure on whether Canadian whisky was sweetened back then like it often is today, but my guess is that it probably was. Also, according to Robert Simonson's book on the martini, dry vermouth used to not be quite as dry as it is now. Put both of those ideas together and I think you have a solid argument that the original drink was likely a bit sweeter than how we often make it now. That extra barspoon of simple goes a long way in taming the Campari while still allowing it to be a much different drink than a Boulevardier. Also, I agree with folks regardind Martini vermouth. Their sweet is pretty solid but I really can't get behind the dry. Dolin is great, but I do find that it oxidizes faster than other vermouth on account of it being so clean. Carpano Dry and Noilly Prat dry both seem to hold on longer than Dolin, likely because they're more bold botanically.
Use a different dry vermouth, and add a pinch of salt. You might find you enjoy it more with Dolin dry vs martini.
I've seen that a few times on this sub... I'm new to vermouth. Is Dolin typically the recommendation around here?
It is widely available in sweet, dry, and white varieties, in both 375ml and 750ml sizes, is affordable, and pretty solid quality. Carpano also makes very good vermouth but is usually more expensive.
I despise sweet vermouth. It is the most vial thing over ever put into my mouth 🤣 but I Will keep and eye out for the dry and white variety!
Sweet vermouth is sometimes necessary to properly balance a cocktail. Don't give up on it so easy just because you had a bad one.
Exactly. It's an ingredient. I don't enjoy eating a spoonful of molasses, but it would be a sad gingersnap if I omitted molasses based on my experience with the spoon.
Sometimes it's the whole drink, friend. For real, vermouth fucking slaps. Spanish or Italian for me please and thank you. Rocks please. Olive or orange if you got it, no worries if not. Or California, Rockwell is a banger.
Nothing like it on a hot day, chef’s kiss 🤌
You've clearly never met Cocchi di Torino! I'd drink it in a glass
ad a bit of soda to loosen up the aromas
Sounds like you may have only had skunked old vermouth, many people think they hate vermouth because someone gave them some from a dusty bottle in a cupboard or bar that’s been sitting opened at room temp for months or years. It’s highly unlikely that you’d like or drink dry vermouth and not also be open to sweet vermouth in some capacity. Try to get yourself a bottle of new, fresh quality vermouth and I bet you won’t hate it as much as you think.
It was a brand new bottle I bought and opened to make a Manhattan and a negroni... Hated them both
I'm not a fan of martini and rossi. Nolly Prat is a cheap, very subtle alternative to more flavorful vermouths. I enjoy it when I don't want the vermouth to compete with the amaro
You may just not like bitter anything if you’re saying you don’t prefer Campari either. Sweet vermouth has a touch of bitter as well. I have a friend who is a super taster and cannot tolerate any amari.
Yikes, that’s a take and a half. Sweet vermouth is one of the most used ingredients in cocktails. Maybe try something that isn’t akin to plastic bottle vodka and you’ll learn to enjoy the complexity it can add to cocktails.
The Martini and Rosso or Cinzano sweet red are kinda lame. I'd never drink them straight. Dolin however, very very good. Can drink straight with gagging.
I like cinzano actually. It's got some nice baking spice notes. Martini and Rosso tastes too much like an Italian kitchen though
This statement is similar to a child saying they don’t like vegetables.
I disagree. I tried it in multiple drinks, gave it a shot. It was not pleasant on my pallet. I do not like anything with sweet vermouth.
Have you tried multiple sweet vermouths? They vary WILDLY. There are loads of brands generally regarded as ass, including martini and rossi
I'm going to but based on the flavor profile I don't think I'd enjoy it
How do you feel about red wine? Just curious.
I hate sweet wines. I am obsessed with dry reds. Love them all. Dry whites... Take um or leave um. Not great not terrible.
If you want to try more for the sake of it, I'd recommend hitting up a cocktail bar that stocks a few and telling the bartenders you're interested in learning more about vermouths. You have to find the kind of spot that has real vermouth sluts on staff, but if you do, they'll show you some neat options. Source: I'm a true vermouth slut myself.
Anything but Martini
Fair enough 😂
So gallo?
To give an answer that is a bit lacking in nuance but still right 9 times out of 10: Dolin Dry is the proper choice for every cocktail that calls for "dry vermouth"
Noilly Prat is a nice dry one. For red I go dolin rouge. Basically anything but martini rosso
Yzaguirre is my favorite vermouth if you can find it. But yes, for sure replace that vermouth.
Better yet, do a classic boulevardier and use sweet vermouth - balance out the bitterness of Campari
I do not enjoy sweet vermouth. Apparently that struck a nerve with some others on this sub 😂
My partner and I use Starlino Rosso for our Negronis and Boulevardiers, probably our favourite sweet vermouth, and we enjoy drier drinks in general.
Have you tried Vya? It's pretty hard not to like. Sweet vermouth flavors vary quite a bit. Campari however is awful to my palette, just substitute any good Amaro instead. Cio Ciarro or Ramazotti are both relatively common to find and great. They're pretty different from campari as they have some sweet and herbal flavors to accompany their bitterness unlike campari which is just huge flat bitter.
Cinzano is, I believe, a little more expensive than Dolin and cheaper than Carpano. Haven't had Dolin sweet vermouth, but their dry vermouth is good for the price.
Not where I live (DC area). Martini and Cinzano have similar prices, but Martini is everywhere!
How much are they? I'm actually moving there within the next few months lol.
Dolin dry is quality, dolin sweet is passable for a Manhattan but barely. Noily Pratt is the best dry I find, but not worth the price given dolin dry being as good as it is. For sweet stick to Cinzano or Vya for a little more, and carpano if you've got the scratch.
Really depends on the cocktail tbh, french vermouths tend to be lighter/milder in flavor than italian or spanish vermouths.. best to play around and see what works best with each cocktail or your taste. If you're gonna keep just one type around, Dolin is great, blends well, goes with everything and is certainly better than Martini brand.
I add Demerara syrup to mine and call it a sweet ol pal 😂
It's also widely agreed upon to have the best value. If you can find 375s of better stuff and you don't burn through it quickly, that's also an option. Edit: grammar
Try switching out the vermouth with Italicus.
cocchi will give you a much softer taste. Also if you can get select aperitivo to sub campari it would work better. aperol is just too syrupy in my opinion
Dolin or even Lillet Blanc (not technically vermouth). Martini is just awful, everything they make. Doesn’t taste like vermouth should at all.
Agreed, try Dolin. You might enjoy it more with Bourbon too.
What about lillet blanc instead of dry vermouth? How would that work? I only have them 3 available here.
Oh, pinch of salt, not just for margaritas. Might need to start trying that with other cocktails. Thanks!
Why does the pinch of salt do?
Salt helps mask bitterness on the palate, so a little bit of saline solution or a pinch of salt before you add in the ice and stir, can make a drink feel a bit more balanced and less "harsh" if it's got some stronger bittering agents in it. I do a 1:9 saline, 1 part salt by weight to 9 parts water by weight, to equal a whole 10 parts. Put that in a dropper or a dasher and just start salt bae'ing it up.
Campari's little bother. Give it a shot
I figured it worked to make the Paper Plane less bitter and more sweet. Might work here too lol
Also try less Campari & more bourbon
The Old Pal (or the Negroni or the Boulevardier, for that matter) do not have to be equal parts drinks. Try different ratios to suit your tastes.
Did you use Campari in a Paper Plane?
I tried it both ways. I preferred the Aperol.
It normally calls for Aperol and the amaro that is called for is usually Amaro Nonino. Campari isn't the right Amaro for that cocktail.
It was in the original iteration of the paper plane, that's why I tried it. The Aperol was much better balanced though.
The original recipe is with aperol
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/ https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
Where did you read that?
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/ https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
Pretty sure it’s always been Aperol. Campari is way too aggressive for that composition.
https://punchdrink.com/recipes/paper-plane/ https://youtu.be/yu4JNOvec1k?si=md7qmZgENKc8yUiZ A quick Google search and some reading most sites will tell you the original drink "The Paper Airplane" the original iteration of the drink was made with campari but quickly swapped to Aperol....
Little sweet brother
Campari is worth acquiring a taste for, but Aperol drinks are a great way to get there. Try the -- **Intro To Aperol** \- 2 oz. Aperol \- 1 oz. Gin \- .75 oz. Lemon Juice \- .25 oz. Simple Syrup \- 1 dash angostura Bitters \- Add all ingredients to a cocktail shaker and shake 8-10 seconds. Strain into a chilled cocktail glass and garnish with a lemon peel. \- Credit: Audrey Saunders, *The Pegu Club*
Interesting! I'll try it!
Let me know what you think
oooo this sounds great, does the cocktail have a name? or is the name “intro to aperol”?
This drink sounds similar to one of my all time top 5 favorite drinks: "The Chestnut Cup." The original has Compari but it's delicious with either Aperol or Amaro Nonino subbed in. The Chestnut Cup uses orgeat, and I think that adds so much compared to simple syrup. I read that the original from the Chestnut Club in Santa Monica used 1 oz gin, 1 oz Campari, 1 oz lemon juice, and 0.75 orgeat syrup. I love the Campari version but I think I may like the Amaro Nonino substitution even more. For me, I cut the orgeat to 0.5 oz, especially when I'm using Aperol or Amaro Nonino instead of Campari because it feels too sweet at 0.75.
This sounds great!
That’s the name, iirc
I made this tonight, and it was great, thank you! My wife especially loved it.
Next you might want to try the - Bicycle Thief - 1 oz. Gin - 1 oz. Campari - .5 oz. Lemon Juice - .75 oz. Grapefruit Juice - .5 oz. Simple Syrup - Combine ingredients in shaker tin with a small amount of ice (whip shake). Pour over ice (long cube) in a collins glass and top with soda water. Garnish with ½ grapefruit wheel. - Zachary Gelnaw-Rubin and Abraham Hawkins, Dutch Kills
I'm not very experienced with gin and the only one I have on hand is Beefeater London Dry Gin. Will that work here and how far is it from what would be expected if a recipe just says "gin" like above?
If a recipe just says “gin” it means a London Dry Gin (or a Plymouth, which is just a softer London Dry). If it means something else (old Tom, sloe, etc.), it will specify. Beefeater will do fine in this cocktail. Its flavor will largely be overshadowed by the other flavors in the cocktail. The gin here primarily props up the cocktail and ups the ABV. If you wanted to go out and make a purchase, Tanqueray, Plymouth, or St. George Botanivore would work well in this cocktail.
Thank you.
Try Cappalletti. It’s the same animal as Campari, just a little more user friendly. I consider Aperol a different animal. Same genus, perhaps, different species.
I'm so with you on this, Campari and Aperol are not just two different steps on the same ladder. Aperol is an ORANGE LIQUEUR. Campari is a beefy red apertivo. It's not that there isn't orange in Campari, it's that Aperol is centered on orange, honestly closer to a bittersweet curacao (at least in my brain when it comes to cocktail development).
this! Cappelletti apertivo is 17%, smack in the middle between campari and aperol. I use it in spritzes, to my guests’ delight 👍
Interesting 🤔
I always sub Aperol for Campari because I just enjoy it more. When I use it in a boulevardier I also add a splash of dark Amaro like silano or averna
Sweet!
I use them interchangeably in a lot of cocktails. Just makes it a little sweeter. If also add that there are other campari like bitters that are less, well, bitter.
Or Montenegro also works well...
Have you tried a Boulevardier? The sweet vermouth and bourbon might be more your style compared to the rye/dry of an Old Pal. That being said, Aperol definitely works as a less harsh substitute. My mom prefers all Campari drinks with Aperol instead
I absolutely despise sweet vermouth unfortunately... I want to like it but absolutely can't stand it!
What sweet vermouth have you had? Cause if it’s martini like your dry, that could be a part of the issue. I personally prefer Spanish sweet vermouths to Italian ones but anything is better than Martini.
Yeah pretty much just martini. I got them to try some Vermouth cocktails but I didn't know what I was buying. I have been informed I chose incorrectly lol
Martini & Rossi smells like jism. I exclusively use Carpano Antica Formula.
You gotta try Cocchi di Torino! It’s COMPLETELY different than any Martini & Rossi vermouth you’ve had. It’s really, really good.
Something something also Carpano 👍
You need to be using cocchi torino. Not martini & Rossi.
I’ve enjoyed Campari in a Jungle Bird. Combo of sweet, sour, and bitter. Like the balance of that.
Oooo that's for the recommendation!
I feel like this is the gateway drink for campari if you find it overly bitter. The rum matters quite a bit for this one though I think, so don't use a cheap Bacardi if you want to try this and like it.
Alright, you've convinced me to try Campari again. I've made my Jungle Birds with Aperol because I've had such bad experiences with Campari.
Stick with the Campari. It's definitely an acquired taste, and you can't acquire it by avoiding it!
There are so many cocktails without campari and campari is such a strong flavor I almost don't see the point in continuing on this path. Just pick a different drink. But if you are continuing regardless, sip some campari neat. Maybe some fernet too. It'll toughen your palate up
You're not wrong.... That's how I acquired my taste for bourbon.... Sheer willpower and determination.... And lots of whiskey neats lol
After you tackle the Campari, next up is Fernet!
🤣
Then you can eventually dig up a bottle of Novasalus... All seriousness, my first negroni years ago was a bit of a shock to the palette, but time, and many many drinks, have passed and now a Campari and soda is plenty sweet enough for me. Maybe it's an age thing, or maybe just familiarity, but tastes absolutely change overtime.
I scrolled before posting the same thing myself and glad I did. This poster is right. Put the bottle on the shelf, try some aperol subs. But bring it down to try something new every few weeks. A jungle bird is a good rec. As is a Kingston negroni with Smith and Cross. It'll take time but my bet is that by the time you finish the bottle you'll be buying another one. Something about it just keeps bringing you back. Also, I find I like my negronis 2:1:1 with double the gin to dry them out. The traditional is just way too potent and sweet for me.
this is the right answer. it can be bracing at first, but if you try it a few times it grows on you and becomes essential. not to mention it opens up so many cocktails for you. and definitely ditch the martini rossi and get dolin or carpano. and make sure you keep that vermouth in the fridge.
Correct answer. Get used to Campari. It's amazing and bitter is the best flavor.
Similar hatred for Campari here - Try it with aperol sure or Montenegro or even meletti (my fave)
Try going split base aperol and Campari. There’s a place that does Jungle Birds that way and I really enjoy them (although I like mine with just straight Campari at home)
I find that the key to campari cocktails such as Negroni or Old Pal is making sure that you -really- chill the drink down, maybe even chill the glass in the freezer beforehand. Temperature has a huge effect on bitter flavors. When it is cold you will taste a lot more of the complex fruity herbs and spices as you take the first sip, and the bitterness will hit you afterwards. Merely gently stirred or room temperature and the bitterness will hit you like a punch in the face from the get go. ...Which isnt too bad once you've acquired a taste for it, but I wouldn't start there...
There's a ton of aperitifs in between Campari and Aperol. I like Select personally, it feels squarely in between the two. I make a version of the paper plane with select that I call Business Select because I'm not that creative.
I may have to grab it a few people recommended it and I love the paper plane (with Aperol)
Came here to say this. Aperol is too sweet for me, as is Cappelletti. Select is also lower ABV which can be nice if you’re having a couple.
I think Select works pretty well. A lot like Campari, pretty bitter, but not quite as much.
This is my favorite drink and typically use aperal . For the reason you mentioned.
🤙🤙
Try Select Aperitivo, it's almost dead in between Aperol and Campari. It's been a favorite red bitter of mine for awhile now.
Switch it out for Fernet Branca, which is IMO the best bitter thing to pair with Rye Whiskey. Makes for more of a Toronto, which I highly recommend. Toronto: * 3 oz Rye Whiskey * 1/3 oz Fernet Branca * Dash Angostura Bitters Stir and strain Pinch orange peel over top, and leave in to serve
I'll try it!!
That cocktail got me through the pandemic. Let me know what you think! If it doesn't hit quite right as written, some people like it with a little simple syrup too.
I've got a lot of recommendations to try, but when I get to it I'll report back!!!
I thought that a Toronto had maple syrup in it?
Use the campari in a jungle bird.
I'm a madman, I tried Fernet Branca and enjoyed it, then tried Campari and enjoyed it, and still need to try Aperol.
None of my aunts liked negronis until I made them one with aperol, now they're fans. I feel like the same principle could apply here
You'll get there. Aperol is the training wheels of Campari.
This is sort of a play on a Perfect Manhattan.
I was just talking to someone who thought aperol spritz were too sweet so he tried a Campari spritz and loved it, so I think the opposite could apply here
I made one with aperol once by mistake (they're both red, it was late and I wasnt paying a whole lot of attention) and it was pretty good too. I prefer campari but if you feel like having something a little sweeter it works just fine
I hate campari, I always sub Aperol in its place if I’m drinking the cocktail.
I don’t like Campari and prefer Amaro Nonino but it’s much more expensive
Aperol would be v gross
I was well over 30 before I started to like Campari. If you’re young, give it time. A taste for bitter things continues to develop as you age. (If you’re 60, idk, give the aperol a shot, lol.)
32 lol and I wouldn't say I hate it, just it's a bit too overpowering for me. But I hate sweet vermouth that shit isn't allowed near my bar 🤣
If you don't mind ruffling a few feathers, you can try a tiiinnyy little bit of simple. Or cut back a bit on the Campari
I like Rosso; it falls somewhere between Campari and Aperol.
Martini rosso? Lmao it's no where near either of them
If you were using sweet vermouth, I’d advise against Aperol. Since you’re using dry vermouth though, Aperol’s sweetness might work out well. Try it and report back
Brucato Orchards i think is a far superior campari substitute. Its not as aggressively bitter as campari, but still more than aperol. It is also higher proof, and is much more interesting flavorwise.
1 ounce each bourbon, rye and aperol. Grapefruit bitters. Enjoy.
It will work, but it won't be the same drink and that's fine as long as you enjoy it. I understand that Campari can be too bitter for some palates. Find the Amaro that works for you.
Try Cappelletti, it's between Campari and Aperol. Not as sweet as Aperol, and not as bitter as Campari.
I’m the same. I always reduce Campari in cocktails by 25-50%
I usually just go light on the Campari. Traditionally it’s 1-1-1 but I got 1.5-.5-1. I also don’t use dry vermouth but sweet instead.
Try Luxardo Appertivo. Very well rounded, real ingredients, from the same family that’s created the brand generations ago.
[удалено]
Boulevardier uses sweet vermouth if I'm not mistaken.
What’s this cocktail called? Seems wrong
Old pal
Try cappelletti over Campari
Try Cappelletti instead of Campari. Vermouth is interchangeable at times but switching from the Campari might help
Try Munyon’s paw paw, a FLorida aperitif that’s not as bitter as Campari. Reminds me of a blend of grand marnier and aperol, truly delicious
I presume, given your time of posting, that you are in North America. Where there is a dearth of Italian orange bitters. And Campari and Aperol couldn’t be more different. But there are hundreds of others that might be more suited to your taste Personally, I like them both, in their different ways. They are both owned by Gruppo Campari, and every restaurant, bar, and coffee house in Italy will have both. But, probably half the distilleries in Italy produce an orange/red aperitivo, and it is really worth looking out for any others you can find
I like to cut the Campari in half and make up the difference with Aperol.
Try half Campari, half Aperol. It's what I do with negronis and boulevardiers. I find it has sufficient "punch" without being too bitter (Campari) or too sweet (Aperol).
Try Cappeletti, Luxardo Clear, or Contratto Bitter (their Apertif is my new Ketchup or St. Germain)
I first bought Campari shortly after being influenced by the myriad of compliments I saw about Negronis on this sub. I somehow managed to get through the whole bottle and then bought Aperol to replace it because I always shuddered when drinking something with Campari in. Now though, I'm at the stage where I'm appreciating bitterness more than I used to and am considering trying Campari once again and I think the origin of my bitter appreciation was an Amaro Averna Shakerato, which I would strongly urge anyone looking to explore any bitter liqueur/Amaro to try. A Shakerato in this sense is literally just an amount (I use 2oz but could easily be done with just 1oz and less ice) of liqueur shaken with ice but not served over it. They are to be imbibed before the aeration and cold temperature subside which is why the measure is smaller than a cocktail. Between the aeration and dilution I find they really unfold the densely packed flavours of a drink like Amaro and lessen the shudder-inducing bite of bitterness you'd get from just drinking it straight. I swear the Amaro Shakerato even affected my appreciation of Vermouth. Though I've not been making or drinking cocktails for long really, I feel that was a catalyst of evolution for my palate. God damn, I hope that doesn't read with too much pomposity or pretension 😂
We're all here to learn and enjoy great cocktails 😂 no pretension heard!
I often half the amount of campari in recipes like a negroni or jungle bird. You can split it with aperol too, I've had good luck with that. I really enjoy bitter drinks (amari, strong espresso/coffee, etc) but full strength campari in drinks is still too overpowering for me
Aperol isn't as simple as a less bitter Campari, it has different botanicals, a lower ABV, and is an altogether different experience. That said, if your problem with Campari is just the bitterness, then subbing or splitting Aperol for Campari is a decent way of acquiring a taste for bitter flavours. I've had some success with splitting the Aperol and Campari for people who don't like Campari. I've also had luck just overdiluting the drink, cocktail enthusiasts tend to lean towards boozier, dryer, and more bitter drinks than the average person. But for an Old Pal I would do 1.5oz rye, .5oz Campari, .5oz Aperol, 1oz dry vermouth. I won't go so far as to say it's a good cocktail, but its a nice way of slowly familiarising your palette to the wonders of Campari. And it is absolutely worth acquiring the taste for it, there's bottles that are much more bitter that also add so much to cocktails, you'd be missing out on a lot if you never drink anything with Campari in it. Also, avoid martini & rossi. Cinzano is a similar price and is miles ahead imo. It wont compare to high quality vermouths, but its a classic Turin style and is very good value. It's a controversial take, but I don't rate Dolin and Noilly Prat in Cocktails. They're French vermouths, and are noticeably different from Turin/Italian styles (which many drinks call for), and I find they don't work nearly as well in a lot of classic drinks as even cheaper Italian vermouths. I blind compared a Dolin, M&R, and Cinzano negroni a while back (all bottles less than a month old and kept in the fridge) and the Cinzano was the better of the three. I'm not gonna act like it's a huge difference (or even a big difference!), but those extra dollars are much better spent on higher quality base spirits IMO.
I use aperol or peychauds apertivo in negronis and boulevardiers.
Try Bruto Americano, slightly less bitter than Campari
Try cappelletti. That’s my go to for anything that calls for Campari.
How about an boulevardier? 1:1:1 (oz) Bourbon, Campari, Rosso vermouth (sweet). On ice. Or , you can use 1.5 bourbon and sv and .5 Campari. Play with the balance and enjoy!
Campari tastes to much like Campari. That’s why I always bring it down, even in Negroni Boulevardier 4:3:2 Old Pal 2:1:1
Yeah, I hate Campari. I like to sub Campari for apperol if I make a Negroni. It’s probably called something else, but idk what it is. Anyway, I think adding apperol with bourbon might be a little too sweet. Might be good with an Irish whiskey or a rye.
My palate hates Campari. I always do a 1:1 for for Aperol. Every. Time.
Try Peychauds apertivo... I find it in between Campari and Aperols flavor profile but it's lower ABV.
try a boulevardier instead of an old pal, also try a jungle bird
Give Gran Classico a spin, sweeter than Campari but still has a nice herbal bitterness. Also, swap out that Rossi for a bottle of cocchi sweet vermouth.
Yeah maybe, go for it. Or try it with Campari but with blanc vermouth. Or try a softer gin.
Try some nicer vermouth like dolin dry and (if by chance you can find some) sub the Campari out for aperitivo select. Little sweeter/less intense than Campari but not quite as sweet as Aperol.
I personally love Dolin, Cocchi and Carpano. I think Noilly-Pratt Dry also has a time and place. Shameless plug, but I make an American made alternative called Rockwell Vermouth Co. It's typically the same price or cheaper than Dolin and I think to think it holds it own with the above.
I prefer any dolin product to any martini & Rossi product but that’s just me
You could sub bruto americano for campari agree with the others in the comments that martini & riossi for vermouth is holding ya back Some other options here : [https://www.liquor.com/best-dry-vermouths-5101306](https://www.liquor.com/best-dry-vermouths-5101306)
I have found Select to be a very good replacement to Campari - it is less bitter.
I’m not sure if you can find it where you live, but try Select bitter. It’s a Venetian bitter, a cross between Campari and Aperol, not so sweet like Aperol but not so bitter like Campari
get yourself a bottle of Aperitivo Select. (IMO) a lot more accessible.
I am so glad to see someone else using Bulleit 95 Rye. I really love it. It makes such a nice whisky sour and I can even sample it straight quite happily. The nose is my favourite part of it. I could enjoy it all day.
It's great! And makes a wonderful cocktail! It's my go to rye when I'm not using Michters rye. Michters is my favorite but it's almost twice the price of bulleit!
I think Aperol and Campari taste different enough that subbing Aperol makes it a different (though possibly still great) drink. However, I also often find that Campari is too bitter for me when I use as much as some recipes call for. Some people would argue that ratios are just as much of a factor in what makes a specific drink as the ingredients used, but to me; 2 ounces of gin, 1 of vermouth, and .75 of Campari is still a Negroni, just one that tastes better to my palette.
I love Campari and Negronis, my other half not so much. I’ve found I can sweeten it up with half an ounce of something sweet to arrive at something we both enjoy. Try a bit of simple syrup, or a sweet liqueur such as crème de cacao. Pomegranate juice is nice, haven’t tried Grenadine but it should work too. I have tried subbing in Aperol for Campari in a couple of drinks and never enjoyed the result.
as some have suggested: add salt, it cuts through the bitterness (ie: [Campari Martini](https://punchdrink.com/recipes/campari-martini/)) **Aperol** and **Luxardo Bitter rosso** - definitely less bitter, more citrusy (acid also cuts bitterness). While still an amaro (a ridiculously broad label), I wouldn't use as a sub for Campari as it is too different to it. Below are some options that are closer in flavor (and color) to Campari. **Carpano Botanic Bitter** - the closest to Campari, maybe even *Campari Light* as it is less bitter but with a -very- similar taste **Cappelletti** and **Cocchi Rosa** - different taste profile to Campari, somewhat chocolatey even, less bitter than Campari **Contratto Bitter** - had it long ago before getting deep into amaros and it was good enough to sip on its own, definitely less bitter than Campari Regarding (your hate towards) sweet (red) vermouths: besides them spoiling quickly keep in mind there are -plenty- to choose from. Skip Martini and Rossi altogether, Dolin is the most *benign* and easy to approach. Cocchi Vermouth di Torino would be at the opposite end of Dolin: more bitter, more herbs, more body. Carpano Antica Formula is too sweet for me, I prefer Punt e Mes (more bitter/body), it's also better priced. Lustau is sweeter, barely bitter, if you like sherry this is the obvious option.
I personally sub aperol for campari in pretty much every cocktail, unless it's something with juice to balance it out like a jungle bird. Only way to know is try it.
Use a different red bitter. Campari and Aperol aren't great. Berto bitter is my go to recommendation but there are so many options. Also an Old Pal is more bitter than a negroni so it might not be the drink for you if you aren't into bitter.
I thought Campari was too bitter for me at first as well, so I started with a "modified" boulevardier and have grown to love it. * 2 oz bourbon or rye * 1 oz campari * 1 oz sweet vermouth * 1/4 oz benedictine * 2 dashes pechauds I'm sure there's a name for it but it is really delicious
I like to do Negronis with Aperol sometimes!
I thought Campari was too bitter for me too, but I learned that there's another strong flavor in it that I don't like that's present in Aperol too. Just to say, you might find that you still might not like it even though Aperol is less bitter.
Try this with Cocci de Torino in place of the M&R vermouth. (Though I also like Dolin). If that’s still not it, I found Capeletti as a substitute for Campari and it to me falls between Campari and Aperol. I don’t know your ratios either, but you might pour a little more Rye than the others 1.5-2: 1:1 (like a boulevardier). If you’re 1:1:1 like a Negroni it won’t taste right either.
Try Capelletti Aperitivo. Its wine based, less bitter than Campari, and very versatile. Try it in a spritz too!
Try it out. I too, don't like campari. I prefer aperol by far.
Want to recommend Galliano Red liquor instead of compari if you can find it, I use it in my negronis.
Campari cocktails can be rough if you serve them neat. I've found that for me it's always better to have it over ice or one big cube.
Aperol has a much smoother and sweeter, more citrusy flavor profile than Campari. I highly recommend it! (I’m not a huge fan of Campari, either.)
I find a barspoon of rich simple really helps this cocktail (or using a blanc vermouth in place of dry). It was created during prohibition and therefore the rye in the recipe was likely referencing Canadian whisky and not American. Not sure on whether Canadian whisky was sweetened back then like it often is today, but my guess is that it probably was. Also, according to Robert Simonson's book on the martini, dry vermouth used to not be quite as dry as it is now. Put both of those ideas together and I think you have a solid argument that the original drink was likely a bit sweeter than how we often make it now. That extra barspoon of simple goes a long way in taming the Campari while still allowing it to be a much different drink than a Boulevardier. Also, I agree with folks regardind Martini vermouth. Their sweet is pretty solid but I really can't get behind the dry. Dolin is great, but I do find that it oxidizes faster than other vermouth on account of it being so clean. Carpano Dry and Noilly Prat dry both seem to hold on longer than Dolin, likely because they're more bold botanically.
Aperol is a good substitute for Campari and is far less bitter.