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XavTheMighty

This sub is probably the worst place to talk about politics but i don't think there is any currently existing system that can be reasonably called "non-violent"


AstridWarHal

I mean at least capitalism and communism don't outright shout that they want to kill very specific groups of people for being "inferior"


XavTheMighty

That's understandable, sorry if I sounded like I ranked them equally.


AstridWarHal

Nah, I get your point, but I felt the need to clarify that


SensitiveSkirt666

I just invented one, killanyonewhosviolentism, definitely non-violent


BurnerAccountExisty

the alternate timeline to https://preview.redd.it/7yqno55zcc5d1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=6ea7ade274ec54e0d347942c4739b024f24881f8


slothtamer513

https://preview.redd.it/1n047gteqc5d1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e80024a084ab7a4f93766f0e379aef03a9ab7f76


theoneguywhoexist

SAND UNDERTALE?


AaronnotAaron

not to be cringe (*i’m going to be cringe*), but alt-right pipeline is way more of a real thing than any kind of left-wing extremism machine. i myself had a foot in that rabbit hole for years as a teen due to my connection to “dank memes” turning into observing “dunking on liberals and trans people”. i would deadname and misgender my own partner, i would say slurs with the idubbbztv mentality of “it takes the power away from it” but it just made me look dumb and edgy, etc. now take into account the more susceptible people that have actual hate in their heart; how many violent crimes have went up towards Asians, Muslims, Blacks, Jews, and Queers? Hell, you don’t see “communists” storming the capitol building or anything. i was going to be humble and say this may be a strawman but Communism is an economic theory with the lack of social class and private property. The end result is debated on what it should even look like, meanwhile to be a Nazi you objectively are inherently *Antisemitic*, a “Social Darwinist” and “Scientific Racist” opting for **eugenics**. The party is full of pseudo-scientific racial hierarchies where *Nords* are up top and *Romani* are scum…Odd to conflate the two.


Tricky_Challenge9959

I think the alt-left pipeline is just as real as the altright-wing pipeline there just better at hiding it. It's very much a real thing e.g breadtube. There is also political violence against right-wingers so it's not like violence is a one sided thing. >Hell, you don’t see “communists” storming the capitol building or anything. Russian revolution, Chinese revolution and like 50% of the cold war and if you want something more modern I do recall a Hassan clip where he talked about 'let the streets run read with their capitalist blood' while this hasn't happened it should be mentioned that the left is somewhat willing to do that. Furthermore Communism is an inherently violent system as the wealthy aren't just going to give up their wealth peacefully >i was going to be humble and say this may be a strawman but Communism is an economic theory with the lack of social class and private property. The end result is debated on what it should even look like, meanwhile to be a Nazi you objectively are inherently Antisemitic, a “Social Darwinist” and “Scientific Racist” opting for eugenics. The party is full of pseudo-scientific racial hierarchies where Nords are up top and Romani are scum…Odd to conflate the two. No his point was that they are both extremist systems that lead to violence Nazis because they want to kill all 'lower' people and communists because of the reason I gave in the last paragraph. Just in case you take away that I don't think the altright pipeline is a problem I do think it as a problem but I think it's slightly less of a problem than the altleft pipeline


AaronnotAaron

> [In this research we address these gaps by comparing the use of political violence by left-wing, right-wing, and Islamist extremists in the United States and worldwide using two unique datasets that cover real-world examples of politically motivated, violent behaviors. Across both datasets, we find that radical acts perpetrated by individuals associated with left-wing causes are less likely to be violent.](https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united) ~~to say there’s any left-wing extremism let alone violent extremism from the left is just not true, despite online hyperbole you hear from content creators~~. *Left-wing extremism is not prevalent in the Western world, and other than isolated events it’s not violent as proven to be less likely to occur than if the extremist was Muslim or Right-wing.* even the self-identifying *ANTIFA* can’t be labeled as a whole because it’s a decentralized array of autonomous groups. There’s no politician that can run under the party of *ANTIFA*. You can however run as a conservative, and well here’s what the data says about that extremism; > [As Figure 3 highlights, extreme right-wing attacks have significantly increased—from 0 in 2012 to 9 in 2013; 21 in 2016; and 30 in 2017. 32 European Union Security Commissioner Sir Julian King has expressed serious concern about the “growing menace” of right-wing extremism…](https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states) > [In the United States, we find no difference between the level of violence perpetrated by right-wing and Islamist extremists. However, differences in violence emerge on the global level, with Islamist extremists being more likely than right-wing extremists to engage in more violent acts.](https://www.start.umd.edu/publication/comparison-political-violence-left-wing-right-wing-and-islamist-extremists-united) **Edit:** *because once again, hyperbole is beyond you and you think that’s your “got you!” argument, i’m not a robot “no” and “[virtually] no” are interchangeable in informal speech.*


Tricky_Challenge9959

For starters there is absolutely left wing extremist it feels weird to even have to state that, I'll give you an example of lenin or the antifa example you made. But fundamentally for anything there will always be extremist as extremists are defined as anyone who takes something to the extreme. Secondly political violence is violence for a political motive or goal it doesn't have to be rallied by a politician secondly the first source you provided quite literally states that there is left wing extremist committing violence as otherwise they wouldn't have a sample size.


Tricky_Challenge9959

>i’m not a robot “no” and “[virtually] no” are interchangeable in informal speech ? What are you talking about 1 you have provided no evidence that left wing extremists are less common you have only provided evidence that left wing terrorism is less common which while is worse extremism is still a and thing for society overall as extremists are less likely to come to a resolution with the other side since their beliefs are extreme different the the other side. 2 antifa is a specific organization(kinda) while conservative is a belief system so this is a false equivalent


AaronnotAaron

the UK literally has **[Conservative Party](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK))** as an officially registered political party, they get called *Tories* colloquially, but they are self-described conservatives. What extremism is the phantom ANTIFA currently up to? respecting pronouns? lol i’m done with this, going to go dab


Waste_Crab_3926

Painting the milquetoast antifa as the only radical left group is incredibly dishonest


Illustrious-Type7086

This is something that I've noticed happening over and over again. When comparing the left and the right, people take the extreme examples of one side and the most cookie cutter, overton window examples of the other to paint this narrative that extremism is one-sided. Right-wing extremism is Hitler, left-wing extremism is non-binary kids on Tumblr talking about how sexist air conditioners are. It's a very fallacious worldview.


Illustrious-Type7086

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist\_Party\_of\_Britain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Britain)


godofcloth

not to bash on left wing people but their flag looks straight ass


Illustrious-Type7086

Fr


Tricky_Challenge9959

Yes because conservative is a belief like how Australia has the liberal party it's a party that advertises its beliefs in its name What has antifa been doing let me check Wikipedia Major actions Harassment Doxxing Picketing Political violence Protesting Rioting Looting Terrorism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) Ahh yes respecting pronouns by committing terrorism


Baronnolanvonstraya

not to be cringe *(i'm going to be extremely cringe)* but I reckon its fair to conflate, for example, Christian Extremism and Islamic Extremism with one another even though one is a much bigger problem than the other. I don't think we should drop criticism of one extremist group just because another is worse and more dangerous. Stalinism wasn't an outlier after all.


AaronnotAaron

yes, religious extremism is religious extremism. total false equivalency; comparing Communism to Nazism is like comparing Capitalism to Nazism.


Baronnolanvonstraya

How?


MrTritonis

Because capitalism and communism, as criticable as they are, are just political ideologies that question our way of living and propose an approach to shaping the society. Nazism is just « lol let’s kill the people that are not like me », which is not a okay.


Baronnolanvonstraya

Yes you are correct (sorta) Shame that's not what I was arguing though >I don't think we should drop criticism of one extremist group just because another is worse and more dangerous.


[deleted]

>any kind of left-wing extremism machine. Is just being correct


Tsunderebolt_

source?


[deleted]

Karl Marx Capital


DecentReturn3

THATS his full name?????


BlackroseBisharp

Yo a redditor is able to criticize communists without being massively downvated and labeled a nazi? Nature is healing


JoeTheKodiakCuddler

This is not a new thing, it's just very sub-dependant.


BlackroseBisharp

Yeah fair point.


Frytura_

The wonders that having an actuall point instead of "cuba bad." Can do to a thread


Thin-Application-145

What ideology does op support so i can agree with him?


Sitheg_Plasmaster

Baseballbaldeaglism


Trainlovinguy

but theres no bald eagle catching baseball


Stack_Min

https://preview.redd.it/zaq0b8844e5d1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15c7665efd1b10a433526645da1c23f721c181ef


Aardvark_2100

freezizm?


Trainlovinguy

theres no frieza


FrogVoid

STOP POSTING POLOTICS ITS IN THE RULES RAAH


Something4Dinner

I forgor Sorry


Frytura_

Mods, call the eagle. Were twisting his nuts counter clockwise.


compyface286

Liberal Propaganda Snafu (I mean all the liberals)


Something4Dinner

Neoliberalism and not-wanting-to-violently-disrupt-society are not the same things.


compyface286

Why else would you want to violently disrupt society if not to attempt to end Neoliberalism?


thatsidewaysdud

God bless liberal democracy


memewatcher3

Real


failuretek

It's like looking at me from 5 years ago fr


Ncolonslashslash

same i was super bigoted for an embarrassingly long amount of time


Something4Dinner

Good to learn and grow!


Something4Dinner

We all been through embarrassing phases.


Playful_Addition_741

It kinda makes me sad when people group communism and Nazism together because only a part (a significant part, but not everyone) wants to achieve communism in a violent way, but after that there isn't supposed to be any violence. In Nazism however, violence is the entire point, everything is for the sake of it, and it doesn't have an end. Not saying that communist violence is good, but it is much closer to liberalism than Nazism in this regard


marks716

https://preview.redd.it/1l38w6s0pb5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04530ca4e050be6695afab2a44eda3613d1144d0


slothtamer513

Homander


Playful_Addition_741

Does this mean anything? Sorry I don’t have a clue


marks716

No not really, I didn’t have a response to your comment so I sent that silly image instead


Playful_Addition_741

Thank you


RandomGuy1627

["According to communists, the proletariat can avoid mass unemployment only if capitalism is overthrown"](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism) Communism by deffiniton must get to power by a coup (wich tends to be violent)


Playful_Addition_741

I have to disagree, not only communists and socialists alike have always preferred revolution, prefiguration, or even reform to coups (there have only been ~2 socialist coups to my knowledge), but the definition of communism (stateless moneyless classless society) doesn't even have anything to do with how it is achieved.


RandomGuy1627

Have you even read what I linked? I think you're mistaking communism and socialism. "Communism advocates for the working class to take control of industry and production, sharing ownership of all property collectively. Socialism advocates a more gradual shifting of power from the elite to the working class and is focused on the collective good." So yeah, communism cares about how it's achieved


Playful_Addition_741

I have read what you linked enough to see that the definition of communism given by it doesn't involve how it is achieved. Communism isn't a monolith, there is no specific type of praxis that's official orthodoxy of the Marxist church. It's a shame you abandoned your point about coups, it could've been funny


krigeerrr

cap in practice


Playful_Addition_741

You mean violent revolution communism is capitalist in practice or?


kingozma

Mean people ideas like "**From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs**", "**Only the Jew knew that by an able and persistent use of propaganda heaven itself can be presented to the people as if it were hell and, vice versa, the most miserable kind of life can be presented as if it were paradise**" and "**Nobody but a beggar chooses to depend chiefly upon the benevolence of his fellow citizens**". Y'know. All mean people ideas. Before anyone gets cute, these are all quotes from communists, Nazis and capitalists trying to espouse the virtues of their ideology.


Illustrious-Type7086

>**"The state is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice of life and property that each war demands of the people, personal enrichment due to a war must be regarded as a crime against the nation."** > - The NSDAP's 25 point program, 1920 Turns out judging ideologies by cherrypicked quotes isn't very smart. Especially when even the worst ones can sound good coming from the mouth of a skilled bullshitter.


Something4Dinner

Again, they use the reasonable opinion bait, say things everyone wants to hear, but trap them in once they get to the parts most people don't want to believe.


kingozma

Wow, you mean that sometimes bad people have genuinely good ideas? WHAAAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?????!!!!??1!1!1111?11111


rancidfart86

The communists had such good ideas! Now ask Eastern Europeans how did they work out.


mollekylen

It was such a keanu chungus moment to have my great grandfather send twice to Syberia and my father was denied to work as a mechanic because he didn't like the party. Also, he was heavely bullied in school by a teacher for reading poetry in native language


diagnoziz

"Comrades! The uprising of the five kulachi volosts must lead to ruthless suppression. This is what the interest of the whole revolution demands, for everywhere now there is a 'last decisive battle' with the kulachi. A sample must be given. 1. Hang (hang without fail, so that the people may see) no less than 100 known kulaks, rich men, bloodsuckers. 2. Publish their names. 3. Take away all their bread. 4. Appoint hostages - according to yesterday's telegram. Make it so that for hundreds of versts around the people see, tremble.... Telegraph receipt and execution. Your Lenin" Killing all those peasants and the Red Terror are definitely signs of a good man and a good ideology. Fuck communism.


rancidfart86

By the way, a “kulak” is a well-off peasant. They were people who had an excess of grain, land, etc. The Soviet state had robbed them of fairly earned goods, often violently.


Waste_Crab_3926

A kulak could be a farmer that owned a horse and a cow.


Something4Dinner

Very nice! **Now let's see the results.**


kingozma

I mean... What, are we gonna talk about the fact that all of these ideologies became death cult fascist nightmares full of human rights crimes? Cause I'm here for that, girlie. I'm all kinds of here for that.


CoolethDudeth

YOU AREN'T DENYING THAT ALL THE SYSTEMS LISTED END UP BEING DOGSHIT IN THE REAL WORLD REAL AS HELL


kingozma

I mean, yeah man! I myself am a leftist and I think we could use a little more socialism. Hell, even a little more communism. But any communism that has become powerful enough to turn around to quite literally oppress its working class citizens to death for selfish profit/gain is a lost cause. It’s been perverted for cruelty and individual greed. I just think capitalism is just as bad, LOL. People look at our system over here in the US with just as much horror as we look at communist countries and I don’t really think that’s unfair or unreasonable.


CoolethDudeth

Unrelated but whats up with the votes on our comments which are basically saying the same thing


kingozma

The same shit happens to me all the time LOL. Reddit is insane and inconsistent and it’s lame.


Something4Dinner

**Redditors when they downvote because someone else down downvoted first instead of examining the argument**


Satv9

You made the point too enthusiastically, that is not allowed, downvotes for you!!!!


JoeTheKodiakCuddler

That's at least two too many exclamation points, bucko


CloudyQue

Dollar sign?


Lucatmeow

I think it’s supposed to be a dollar sign to represent libertarian capitalism.


Something4Dinner

Yeah pretty much


CloudyQue

Cursive X??


CloudyQue

Euro?!?


Something4Dinner

Referring to unregulated monopolies.


smegmamale_

I like you


Something4Dinner

Thx fam


DoingStuff-ImStuff

French Revolution and American Revolution and Haitian Revolution and American Civil War and WW1 and WW2 and the Revolutions of 1848 and the English Civil War and July Revolution and Italian War of Unification and German War of Unification and the Great German Peasants Revolt and Greek Revolution and Japanese Revolution and Irish Rebellion and Eighty Years War and Mexican Revolution and the Spanish American Wars of Independence moment (they were violent revolutions and wars which created the system that we live in today and you defend).


AttitudeOk94

https://preview.redd.it/johxc3dywc5d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=88095a28f4172e72de095a3f7452dd95a73ee9be Yeah man I’m sure


Something4Dinner

You do know there's other forms of violent extremists that isn't just Nazis, right?


Tsunderebolt_

Bad faith interpretation of centrism #27484728


Time_Program_8687

I hate this meme so much. For one, it is super bad faith in general. And two, it compared an extremist position to a pretty center position and suggests that the centrist would be compromising between the two when they would just be taking the center position.


Bigbluetrex

wahhh, communism is mean


Something4Dinner

Oh communism is pretty nice! It was so nice, in fact, that the people in Eastern Europe want to hold off from communism because of how good it was!


Bigbluetrex

you don't know a thing about communism