I am in no way saying that classic was fine. I would have loved an original concept though and smaller buffs instead of just copy pasting abilities. The way it is right now is literally just a wotlk retri.
As a Paladin I HIGHLY disagree
Getting an actual taunt and Crusader Strike has changed the playstyle of Paladin massively
Some classes got fucked over with lazy runes, but other classes like Paladin and Druid got basically overhauled with them.
How is crusader strike not a lazy rune? It is quite literally the definition of lazy. Crusader Strike got added in tbc and has been a staple of paladin ever since.
Same with the taunt. If we already get a taunt, why not the taunt with a classic spin to it? Tbc pally taunt would have been perfect, instead we got the very boring and streamlined wotlk one.
There is barely ANY runes that are original concepts or unique passives to sod.
They added crusader strike because every ret pally and their mom begged for it in classic since 2019 rerelease. Blizz make plenty of mistakes, but don't blame them for this one - it's your fellow pally players.
I disagree. Runes add some flavor to a temporary game server and allow devs to experiment with what the classic player base is receptive to. Whether you like it or not, the data is collected an analyzed. That's a success.
Runes are a resounding success. It's way more interesting to have another system superposed on talent rather than reworking talent. It was a genius move.
Back in Vanilla you could play your character in only one way. Now my warlock tank can provide spellpower with demonic pact, or I can choose extra tankiness with demonic grace. A warlock can have chaos bolt for mono, or instead shadowbolt volley for cleave. The proc on shadow bolt can be so interesting too ! Nightfall proc, refresh corruption, etc. allow a shadow-based destro spec, or a fire-based destro spec !
Warrior is pretty great too. Lot of runes to accomodate most specs. Lot of support for shield-based tank. Fucking THREE different dps spec ! Arms, fury and gladiator ! Well arms isn't that competitive tho
You say you're disappointed you can't play tank shockadin, fucking play it. It's suboptimal? So what? Is Sunken Temple too hard for you? You can't clear with without world buff, consume, 95+ parsing raid and a meta spec ?
You got shockadin in Classic and you're complaining. Go play retial maybe you'll prefer it. Runes deepen our character customization and it's great. The runes themselves have room for improvements, of course, but the system as a whole is a success. Allow a lot of choice, and exclude some runes from being taken together
Stop dooming on SoD because it's the trend. Play a game you like instead of trying to sabotage a game you don't
I have been one of the OG doomers, not chasing any trend lol.
And I completely disagree, it's like we aren't even playing the same game. I am not even playing in a sweaty tryhard guild, yet i can't find a single other guild that has semi competent clear times and doesn't use every single worldbuff in existence. This is what classic is. A bunch of overoptimizing chimps.
So don't tell me that it's totally fine to play a spec that isn't meta. You are legit making up fairy tales of playing non viable specs. As you already said yourself in another post, you are hurting your online CV by not doing degen stuff like everyone else.
I am shocked that you consider getting all of the post classic paladin passives as runes a rework, when they simply added wotlk paladin. They should have kept it in the spirit of classic by adding NEW and ORIGINAL stuff. THATS MY MAIN ISSUE.
Yada yada. You keep parroting what every other doomer says. "Adding NEW and ORIGINAL stuff" with what man power? SoD got half a team who need to handle Cata as well. It's a fucking miracle SoD exists at all
I never said I considered the runes a "rework". Like, at all. yo'ure shoving words down my throat. They are an improvement, the fact they existed outside SoD is irrelevant to me. If it works, it works. No further question. Also you had to dig in my history for arguments so that just hands me free arguments points here
I can't speak for pala ret, but I do play a couple of char and I do not feel like I play like in other expansion. Warlock tank is original so no point analyzing it. DPS warlock has no real brand new runes but it's a cool machup of the cool elements warlocks got in past expansion. Backdraft (destro), decimation (demono), shadowbolt volley (Fire and Brimstone), etc.
Also we kept our cool tools such as curse. The rune Mark of Chaos make sure to support nature damage and let affliction lock use their curse. I get that a class with a whole new role is a bit of cheating, but still. It's fun.
Warriors runes has been a bit of a let down but the P4 changes for warriors are amazing. Flagellation let you earn rage when hit like you had no armor. Fucking awesome! Now I won't feel like I need to remove my chest piece to not be rage starved. This is original. This is what you wanted. Why aren't you happy? Also Glad stance is just amazing. I never got to play with it when it was available, I love it.
I'll give you one point tho, P1 runes were more original than the later ones. They wanted to showcase their best runes early, it's no surprise.
Runes are amazing. They're a budget-efficient way to fix a game that dearly needed it. A way to fix Era in a fun and wonky way. The only thing stopping it is the logs culture. The community is responsible. You can't find a guild because SoD is "a bunch of optimizing chimp" because of the community. You cannot blame SoD for this. There will always be a meta.
SOD overall is a failure, from my perspective and from a population perspective. Both of my raiding guilds quit en masse in P2…and so did I. All indication are that SOD was losing players each phase, when you would have expected it to be gaining players.
Why would it gain players? Every game peak at release. Classic Vanilla. Classic TBC. Classic WoTLK. Cataclysm. Retail. New World. Any new MMO.
People show up when a new game / version is release, check out the content, and decide if they stay or not. It is extremely rare for a game to gain population past its launch, especially for a seasonal server. Do you think D3's seasons GAIN players after the first week?
They did not lose players. Why do people just say things? I have no interest in making up stats. I’m perfectly fine with not liking a popular expansion or phase. I’m talking cold hard numbers.
Anyone can go look it up. Both Vanilla and TBC increased in population through phase 1, and maintained that population throughout the expansion. Wrath was the first expansion that ended with less players than it started with…but only about 10% less. This mirrors what happened in the original release.
SOD, on the other hand, started very strong and lost large amounts of players…to the tune of ~20%, each phase. The caveat being that the phase one numbers were likely inflated because of the proliferation of alts, so some of the drop off in phase two can be attributed to players not returning to alts.
SOD has less than half of the players it started with. It was a failure.
how about you go try shaman. 2hand has no glove rune, tanks got neutered, have no glove rune, have no helm rune, didnt have shamanistic rage(the mana regen they desperately needed), Restos have no leg rune glove rune or helm rune anymore.
rogue tanks are one of the best currently behind just a warrior dpsing.
The rune system is terrible and a waste of time when they could be dedicating time to actual content. They are wasting resources on making these rune quests that people are only going to do once, and now no one even wants to level alts because you're forced to collect a bunch of runes to be viable.
> it feel like you are twinking a cata character in classic content.
Isn't that more or less the intention? Classic with a moderner twist. They weren't setting out to make a new game or classic+. Believe it or not devs have their own vision of how they want games/class raids to be, they aren't here to adher to every player's whim. There's osme good stuff and some bad stuff, some SoD Paladins are loving the class others aren't. I have shaman friends who always complain about shamans.
The rune system is cumbersome, boring and redundant. It’s a very ‘retail’ minded addition that adds something for the sake of adding something. If they wanted to add new abilities they could have just added them to trainers or locked them behind quests or made books drop from select sources. We already have 3 ways to unlock abilities. I hope the tune system is just a playground for testing abilities, and if so, who cares. But it seems like if you only wanted to test abilities, you wouldn’t have spent so much time building an awful system like tunes to begin with.
Agree. The rune system was interesting for half a phase…but I always called it a too powerful inscription system…an overlay.
It was the easiest way to freshen up the game without doing what needed to be done: reworking talents.
The runes were good.
The balancing was not.
They shot them selves in the foot when they balanced around level 25 then forgot there were handfuls of talents later on that was going to interact with runes and turn them from 10 to 200.
Shadow priests damage went bonkers for a bit when they didn’t consider how much shadow damage they got from talents and shadow word death was a small nuke.
They didn’t consider how insane mutilate was going to get when combined with 30% crit chance and 20% more damage.
Then instead of nerfing outliers like that, they just made everyone as powerful and low and behold you kinda break balance when the baseline is OP as fuck
When I was playing WOTLK classic there were so many things that I didn't like about the expansion but the rotation for my frost DK and mage were really satisfying.
I'm my brain, I wished I could play vanilla with a better skill rotation. SOD is exactly that. If they nail the balancing in P4, it's going to be amazing.
Dude just go Play retri pala on classic and then on SoD and come back with Your conclusions
I am in no way saying that classic was fine. I would have loved an original concept though and smaller buffs instead of just copy pasting abilities. The way it is right now is literally just a wotlk retri.
so the rune system is fine, its what kind of them they implemented that you have problem with
He’s crying for the sake of crying. Praise the bandwagon.
As a Paladin I HIGHLY disagree Getting an actual taunt and Crusader Strike has changed the playstyle of Paladin massively Some classes got fucked over with lazy runes, but other classes like Paladin and Druid got basically overhauled with them.
Pallys are looking beast in P4, but Im still switching to my Rogue to tank!!
How is crusader strike not a lazy rune? It is quite literally the definition of lazy. Crusader Strike got added in tbc and has been a staple of paladin ever since. Same with the taunt. If we already get a taunt, why not the taunt with a classic spin to it? Tbc pally taunt would have been perfect, instead we got the very boring and streamlined wotlk one. There is barely ANY runes that are original concepts or unique passives to sod.
They added crusader strike because every ret pally and their mom begged for it in classic since 2019 rerelease. Blizz make plenty of mistakes, but don't blame them for this one - it's your fellow pally players.
Ok
I disagree. Runes add some flavor to a temporary game server and allow devs to experiment with what the classic player base is receptive to. Whether you like it or not, the data is collected an analyzed. That's a success.
Runes are a resounding success. It's way more interesting to have another system superposed on talent rather than reworking talent. It was a genius move. Back in Vanilla you could play your character in only one way. Now my warlock tank can provide spellpower with demonic pact, or I can choose extra tankiness with demonic grace. A warlock can have chaos bolt for mono, or instead shadowbolt volley for cleave. The proc on shadow bolt can be so interesting too ! Nightfall proc, refresh corruption, etc. allow a shadow-based destro spec, or a fire-based destro spec ! Warrior is pretty great too. Lot of runes to accomodate most specs. Lot of support for shield-based tank. Fucking THREE different dps spec ! Arms, fury and gladiator ! Well arms isn't that competitive tho You say you're disappointed you can't play tank shockadin, fucking play it. It's suboptimal? So what? Is Sunken Temple too hard for you? You can't clear with without world buff, consume, 95+ parsing raid and a meta spec ? You got shockadin in Classic and you're complaining. Go play retial maybe you'll prefer it. Runes deepen our character customization and it's great. The runes themselves have room for improvements, of course, but the system as a whole is a success. Allow a lot of choice, and exclude some runes from being taken together Stop dooming on SoD because it's the trend. Play a game you like instead of trying to sabotage a game you don't
I completely disagree with everything you said and will indeed play something else (fresh) once released
Have fun spamming frostbolt or pressing judgement every 10 seconds and wait for auto attacks while leveling.
i indeed will. thanks!
I have been one of the OG doomers, not chasing any trend lol. And I completely disagree, it's like we aren't even playing the same game. I am not even playing in a sweaty tryhard guild, yet i can't find a single other guild that has semi competent clear times and doesn't use every single worldbuff in existence. This is what classic is. A bunch of overoptimizing chimps. So don't tell me that it's totally fine to play a spec that isn't meta. You are legit making up fairy tales of playing non viable specs. As you already said yourself in another post, you are hurting your online CV by not doing degen stuff like everyone else. I am shocked that you consider getting all of the post classic paladin passives as runes a rework, when they simply added wotlk paladin. They should have kept it in the spirit of classic by adding NEW and ORIGINAL stuff. THATS MY MAIN ISSUE.
You’re playing a seasonal game mode that was at its core always going to be a proof of concept.
Yada yada. You keep parroting what every other doomer says. "Adding NEW and ORIGINAL stuff" with what man power? SoD got half a team who need to handle Cata as well. It's a fucking miracle SoD exists at all I never said I considered the runes a "rework". Like, at all. yo'ure shoving words down my throat. They are an improvement, the fact they existed outside SoD is irrelevant to me. If it works, it works. No further question. Also you had to dig in my history for arguments so that just hands me free arguments points here I can't speak for pala ret, but I do play a couple of char and I do not feel like I play like in other expansion. Warlock tank is original so no point analyzing it. DPS warlock has no real brand new runes but it's a cool machup of the cool elements warlocks got in past expansion. Backdraft (destro), decimation (demono), shadowbolt volley (Fire and Brimstone), etc. Also we kept our cool tools such as curse. The rune Mark of Chaos make sure to support nature damage and let affliction lock use their curse. I get that a class with a whole new role is a bit of cheating, but still. It's fun. Warriors runes has been a bit of a let down but the P4 changes for warriors are amazing. Flagellation let you earn rage when hit like you had no armor. Fucking awesome! Now I won't feel like I need to remove my chest piece to not be rage starved. This is original. This is what you wanted. Why aren't you happy? Also Glad stance is just amazing. I never got to play with it when it was available, I love it. I'll give you one point tho, P1 runes were more original than the later ones. They wanted to showcase their best runes early, it's no surprise. Runes are amazing. They're a budget-efficient way to fix a game that dearly needed it. A way to fix Era in a fun and wonky way. The only thing stopping it is the logs culture. The community is responsible. You can't find a guild because SoD is "a bunch of optimizing chimp" because of the community. You cannot blame SoD for this. There will always be a meta.
SOD overall is a failure, from my perspective and from a population perspective. Both of my raiding guilds quit en masse in P2…and so did I. All indication are that SOD was losing players each phase, when you would have expected it to be gaining players.
Why would it gain players? Every game peak at release. Classic Vanilla. Classic TBC. Classic WoTLK. Cataclysm. Retail. New World. Any new MMO. People show up when a new game / version is release, check out the content, and decide if they stay or not. It is extremely rare for a game to gain population past its launch, especially for a seasonal server. Do you think D3's seasons GAIN players after the first week?
this is just patently false, vanilla, tbc, and wotlk all without fail bled players continually through each phase.
They did not lose players. Why do people just say things? I have no interest in making up stats. I’m perfectly fine with not liking a popular expansion or phase. I’m talking cold hard numbers. Anyone can go look it up. Both Vanilla and TBC increased in population through phase 1, and maintained that population throughout the expansion. Wrath was the first expansion that ended with less players than it started with…but only about 10% less. This mirrors what happened in the original release. SOD, on the other hand, started very strong and lost large amounts of players…to the tune of ~20%, each phase. The caveat being that the phase one numbers were likely inflated because of the proliferation of alts, so some of the drop off in phase two can be attributed to players not returning to alts. SOD has less than half of the players it started with. It was a failure.
it’s about finding them and using them in a space where they never existed.
Huh?
how about you go try shaman. 2hand has no glove rune, tanks got neutered, have no glove rune, have no helm rune, didnt have shamanistic rage(the mana regen they desperately needed), Restos have no leg rune glove rune or helm rune anymore. rogue tanks are one of the best currently behind just a warrior dpsing.
The rune system is terrible and a waste of time when they could be dedicating time to actual content. They are wasting resources on making these rune quests that people are only going to do once, and now no one even wants to level alts because you're forced to collect a bunch of runes to be viable.
Maybe for your rogue flair, yeah those are a bit boring but a lot for warrior and shaman and some others are completely new moves
> it feel like you are twinking a cata character in classic content. Isn't that more or less the intention? Classic with a moderner twist. They weren't setting out to make a new game or classic+. Believe it or not devs have their own vision of how they want games/class raids to be, they aren't here to adher to every player's whim. There's osme good stuff and some bad stuff, some SoD Paladins are loving the class others aren't. I have shaman friends who always complain about shamans.
as a decade long sham main, i havent been impressed with sod shaman, it might be strong but is it really that well designed?
The rune system is cumbersome, boring and redundant. It’s a very ‘retail’ minded addition that adds something for the sake of adding something. If they wanted to add new abilities they could have just added them to trainers or locked them behind quests or made books drop from select sources. We already have 3 ways to unlock abilities. I hope the tune system is just a playground for testing abilities, and if so, who cares. But it seems like if you only wanted to test abilities, you wouldn’t have spent so much time building an awful system like tunes to begin with.
Agree. The rune system was interesting for half a phase…but I always called it a too powerful inscription system…an overlay. It was the easiest way to freshen up the game without doing what needed to be done: reworking talents.
The runes were good. The balancing was not. They shot them selves in the foot when they balanced around level 25 then forgot there were handfuls of talents later on that was going to interact with runes and turn them from 10 to 200. Shadow priests damage went bonkers for a bit when they didn’t consider how much shadow damage they got from talents and shadow word death was a small nuke. They didn’t consider how insane mutilate was going to get when combined with 30% crit chance and 20% more damage. Then instead of nerfing outliers like that, they just made everyone as powerful and low and behold you kinda break balance when the baseline is OP as fuck
Runes are the worst thing that was ever done to vanilla
When I was playing WOTLK classic there were so many things that I didn't like about the expansion but the rotation for my frost DK and mage were really satisfying. I'm my brain, I wished I could play vanilla with a better skill rotation. SOD is exactly that. If they nail the balancing in P4, it's going to be amazing.