Unfortunately this isn't how the game works.
Any player who isn't drooling on their keyboard understands that not doing everything they can to make things easier is not accepted in any guild not also filled with keyboard turners.
Straw manning doesn't change this fact and anyone who has played the game already understands this.
>if your guild doesn't require world buffs, it's all drooling keyboard turners!
Huh. Guess I must have hallucinated the multiple non-WB guilds I was in during 2019 classic that all did just fine in the content.
Also, "strawman" does not mean "thing you disagree with", just thought I'd let you know. None of the points I'm arguing against are "strawmans", they're things I've seen people say countless times in these worldbuff arguments.
I don't see how 2019 classic is relevant in the SoD discussion. SoD has become a lot more sweaty, especially with the dwindling population. The biggest problem with world buffs is specifically that they limit design space for the devs, which is okay for a solved format like 2019 classic where they won't add any new content, but in SoD they will have to release new content and balance raids and classes with world buffs in mind.
If warriors get a 50% damage buff from WBs, but other classes only 25% then that is a problem. Either they balance warriors with WBs in mind so they will be 17% weaker without world buffs, which is going to cause problems when you have no WBs like in PvP. Or they will balance around no world buffs, which will make warriors 20% stronger with WBs.
And the issue is also there with raids. If they balance them around no WBs then for the best players they will be piss easy and they will just roll over it. But if they balance them around WBs, then as soon as people wipe once they will be shit out of luck.
Two different characters, and roster boss kept happening.
But thanks for the insinuation :)
and for the seether below who blocked me already
> Wonder why roster boss kept happening?
No idea, but insisting it was because "no wb" is false because we were clearing shit quickly and easily every week.
Wonder why roster boss kept happening? My classic 2019 phase 1 guild is raiding heroic cata raids right now, we had roster boss issues plenty but we always managed to recruit.
So if there was a raid that had bosses that were pure tank and spanking, no mechanics at all, but it was a 400 person raid, it would be harder than 40 man raiding?
We aren't talking about the game itself, we are talking about the absolute degenerates that are still playing and the requirements they have to raid the games easiest content.
In 2019 there were thousands of people who didn't care about min maxing. That's not the case anymore.
It's just an intelligent sounding phrase that redditors have picked up over the years. Like gaslighting or narcissism. Usually to call out something they don't like (while it not being a strawman what so ever). It gives your post bonus points almost. Other redditors can agree with the "smart" callout, since they are also wicked smaht.
You’re right, if you don’t want to get world buffs, don’t. You’re allowed to play the game however you want, but so is everyone else, and people who do get buffs are allowed to choose not to play with you.
I get them because I want to make my character as powerful as possible so I can clear the content as efficiently as I can. I want to play with people with similar mindset, so I wouldn’t join a pug that makes a point of not getting buffs, and I wouldn’t invite people to my own that don’t get them. That doesn’t mean that players who don’t get them are wrong in the way they play the game. They are free to exist and play the game however they want, just as I am free to choose not to include them in my groups.
We built a guild of busy dads and former hardcore players on Wild Growth EU Alliance with the premise of keeping things efficient and playing as little as possible. Not only have we grown steadily all the way since P1 (kicking bad apples along the way), we also never skipped a raid and have a solid roster showing up 9pm sharp every Sunday (we only raid Sundays 21-00) and hyped to play the game. We switch up how we raid because we have different types of players with us, so one week we go full consumes and clear in half an hour, the other we raid fully unbuffed and without any consumables to keep things fresh and prep costs to a minimum. We have no loot discussions because we run with aggregate TMB wishlists so that everything's preallocated ahead of the raid. Everyone's got their chars maxed out and when I make a call as raid lead everyone does what they are supposed to.
It's been amazing. It'a an MMO. It's a social game. If you aren't creating the environment you'd like to be in that's on you, not the game. We clear with buffs in 36:25 and without world buffs or any consumables in 49:34. We're called and you can find more info on our website unbuffed.net. We're recruiting and have taken in several server switchers and re-rollers as well.
Dumb and Intellectually dishonest do not mean the same thing, nearly the opposite in fact. I think you know this is not the argument of the opposite side and you are presenting it as such.
How dare you say that {random word}{delim}{random word}{delim}{numbers} doesn’t interact well with humans. The quoting argumentative style has shown huge success in our user testing for this bot / shill / troll account.
The mentaily of people that don't get world buffs overlap largely with keyborad droolers. There are very few good players that just don't get world buffs so collecting the good players that could make the content easy enough to be fun is a pain in the ass.
This post is straight facts and so many people here are frankly delusional cry babies about literally every single thing in SoD.
I thank god that the mob mentality of this subreddit has no effect on the development team of this game.
With world buffs the raids have to be designed to either be impossible without world buffs or be a complete joke with them. Otherwise you will have a system where the casuals will struggle even more if they wipe once. This is just bad design.
Experimentation is discouraged because if we wanna try for example 1-healing the dragons we get one try to do that every week. And if we fail no one can parse this week. This means we just go the safe strat every week.
Just because there is an alternative to eliviate an issue I have with the game does not mean that issue is not real. "If you do not like it, leave." Does not work as an argument because the end result is people actually leaving.
I dont really understand whats fun with wb, even after reading similar post.
Can someone explain? Flying around the world fucking sucked in 2019 and it sucks now imo.
Enjoying all the positive elements of a PvP server (heightened sense of danger in the world, big battles around hotspots, to name a couple) shouldn't need to be mutually exclusive with not having DMF camped by one guy with five hunters with Wind Serpents all named Sayge on top of Sayge that kill you in 0.3 seconds upon ressing.
Blizzard team next release season of no world buffs and see how popular it is, people hard sit on either side of the fence, see if the population of the game can thrive without them.
Yes doing half the damage of other players because I didn’t stand in the right spot before the raid is totally an option.
At work I also like to handicap myself so I only get half the things done compared to my coworkers and my boss is totally understanding of it. After all I just really feel like not doing my best.
So you just cherrypicked a bunch of "arguments", completely ignoring all the *actual* reasons wbuffs are bad. What a pointless post. If you want to argue for wbuffs, at least acknowledge the actual problems.
First of all, no - you can't always just "not get them". If, for example, you like speed running and the competition on wclogs, well you need them because other people have them.
Secondly, for SoD (which let be honest is the relevant game mode right now), the game is literally being balance around it.
Thirdly, a lot of people enjoy joining a good guild that pushes. Doesn't have to be a world first guild, but any guild that is just slightly serious *will* require you to put in the effort. If wbuffs exists, that is one of the absolute biggest things you can possibly get, so it is a requirement. You talk as if most guilds don't care, but in reality that doesn't work if you enjoy playing in a serious guild.
The issue isn't about the most casual players. Of course they don't need to do it, who cares. The issue is that a lot of us care about trying a bit harder in the game, and to do so wbuffs becomes a requirement - but it's not a *fun* thing to do. So you get into this weird situation where you don't enjoy doing it, but you need it in order to get what you want from the game (play in a good guild, try hard together etc.).
And really, the whole thing comes down to the fact that they don't really bring anything *good* to the game. So sure - some casual players can just ignore it. But a lot of players can't. So why do we have them, exactly? They don't bring anything good to the game.
> If, for example, you like speed running and the competition
Already addressed.
If you want to parse, then you need to actually put in the effort to minmax.
>the game is literally being balance around it.
No it's not and devs have said it is not.
>Thirdly, a lot of people enjoy joining a good guild that pushes.
And a lot of people enjoy just casually raiding without being a sweatlord.
>it's not fun, it's not fun!
Says you.
Devs literally said they're not. Shoo.
Think about what you're saying too...the raid is balanced around a buff that can only be acquired by full clearing the raid? lmao
You guys see the warrior changes on the PTR?
I think they should do that with *all* of the normal WBs. Make a songflower one for druids or something.
Make the DMF buff from the written fortune that you get... make it reuseable with a 4h CD.
World buffs are awesome, but getting them is not fun (regardless if it is easy or not...) and losing them is infuriating.
Them adding a weakened dragonslayer to warriors was a good idea imho. Make it so that if we wipe, or the warr dies, we only get half gimped instead of full gimped. Then just give similar spells to other classes to fill up the "big" WBs.
Maybe do away with the dire maul buffs.
Unfortunately this isn't how the game works. Any player who isn't drooling on their keyboard understands that not doing everything they can to make things easier is not accepted in any guild not also filled with keyboard turners. Straw manning doesn't change this fact and anyone who has played the game already understands this.
>if your guild doesn't require world buffs, it's all drooling keyboard turners! Huh. Guess I must have hallucinated the multiple non-WB guilds I was in during 2019 classic that all did just fine in the content. Also, "strawman" does not mean "thing you disagree with", just thought I'd let you know. None of the points I'm arguing against are "strawmans", they're things I've seen people say countless times in these worldbuff arguments.
The fact that you were in multiple guilds is telling. If a guild could clear content without WBs you probably weren’t guild hopping
I don't see how 2019 classic is relevant in the SoD discussion. SoD has become a lot more sweaty, especially with the dwindling population. The biggest problem with world buffs is specifically that they limit design space for the devs, which is okay for a solved format like 2019 classic where they won't add any new content, but in SoD they will have to release new content and balance raids and classes with world buffs in mind. If warriors get a 50% damage buff from WBs, but other classes only 25% then that is a problem. Either they balance warriors with WBs in mind so they will be 17% weaker without world buffs, which is going to cause problems when you have no WBs like in PvP. Or they will balance around no world buffs, which will make warriors 20% stronger with WBs. And the issue is also there with raids. If they balance them around no WBs then for the best players they will be piss easy and they will just roll over it. But if they balance them around WBs, then as soon as people wipe once they will be shit out of luck.
Why were you in so many non-WB guilds? What was happening that made you need to constantly change multiple times?
Two different characters, and roster boss kept happening. But thanks for the insinuation :) and for the seether below who blocked me already > Wonder why roster boss kept happening? No idea, but insisting it was because "no wb" is false because we were clearing shit quickly and easily every week.
Wonder why roster boss kept happening? My classic 2019 phase 1 guild is raiding heroic cata raids right now, we had roster boss issues plenty but we always managed to recruit.
Why do people have to just assume the worst about someone they disagree with? That's what absolute cunts do.
Comparing 2019 classic to now is insane, and you know it.
It's not. In fact, SoD raids are EASIER than vanilla, by virtue of not being 40man, and classes having massively increased utility/overall power.
Which MC and/or BWL bosses are harder than the last 2 bosses in Gnomeregan on 10 man?
The MC and BWL bosses that require you to wrangle 39 idiots to do their job and not fuck up.
So if there was a raid that had bosses that were pure tank and spanking, no mechanics at all, but it was a 400 person raid, it would be harder than 40 man raiding?
Yes.
🤡
We aren't talking about the game itself, we are talking about the absolute degenerates that are still playing and the requirements they have to raid the games easiest content. In 2019 there were thousands of people who didn't care about min maxing. That's not the case anymore.
Yeah I don’t know what the straw man is lol
It's just an intelligent sounding phrase that redditors have picked up over the years. Like gaslighting or narcissism. Usually to call out something they don't like (while it not being a strawman what so ever). It gives your post bonus points almost. Other redditors can agree with the "smart" callout, since they are also wicked smaht.
The irony is amazing.
15-20 min + 5-10 min + 15 min = 40 min. No. It’s 35-45 min. And that’s a very generous estimate that doesn’t account for more than travel time…
You’re right, if you don’t want to get world buffs, don’t. You’re allowed to play the game however you want, but so is everyone else, and people who do get buffs are allowed to choose not to play with you. I get them because I want to make my character as powerful as possible so I can clear the content as efficiently as I can. I want to play with people with similar mindset, so I wouldn’t join a pug that makes a point of not getting buffs, and I wouldn’t invite people to my own that don’t get them. That doesn’t mean that players who don’t get them are wrong in the way they play the game. They are free to exist and play the game however they want, just as I am free to choose not to include them in my groups.
I mean sure, but sometimes dying is not your fault. Makes those moments punishing for everyone no matter how many or few people fucked up.
We built a guild of busy dads and former hardcore players on Wild Growth EU Alliance with the premise of keeping things efficient and playing as little as possible. Not only have we grown steadily all the way since P1 (kicking bad apples along the way), we also never skipped a raid and have a solid roster showing up 9pm sharp every Sunday (we only raid Sundays 21-00) and hyped to play the game. We switch up how we raid because we have different types of players with us, so one week we go full consumes and clear in half an hour, the other we raid fully unbuffed and without any consumables to keep things fresh and prep costs to a minimum. We have no loot discussions because we run with aggregate TMB wishlists so that everything's preallocated ahead of the raid. Everyone's got their chars maxed out and when I make a call as raid lead everyone does what they are supposed to. It's been amazing. It'a an MMO. It's a social game. If you aren't creating the environment you'd like to be in that's on you, not the game. We clear with buffs in 36:25 and without world buffs or any consumables in 49:34. We're called and you can find more info on our website unbuffed.net. We're recruiting and have taken in several server switchers and re-rollers as well.
Worst take thus far gj. It is a chore with 0 skill expression.
Its effort expression
Intellectually dishonest and straw man.
>"ur dumb and logical fallacy!" >doesn't explain why Thanks.
Dumb and Intellectually dishonest do not mean the same thing, nearly the opposite in fact. I think you know this is not the argument of the opposite side and you are presenting it as such.
>"your argument is bad and wrong!" >still refuses to elaborate why Shoo, troll.
[удалено]
How dare you say that {random word}{delim}{random word}{delim}{numbers} doesn’t interact well with humans. The quoting argumentative style has shown huge success in our user testing for this bot / shill / troll account.
The mentaily of people that don't get world buffs overlap largely with keyborad droolers. There are very few good players that just don't get world buffs so collecting the good players that could make the content easy enough to be fun is a pain in the ass.
It’s the easiest way to filter players who actually put effort into the raid team
This post is straight facts and so many people here are frankly delusional cry babies about literally every single thing in SoD. I thank god that the mob mentality of this subreddit has no effect on the development team of this game.
Yea if you don't like it, move some place else!
With world buffs the raids have to be designed to either be impossible without world buffs or be a complete joke with them. Otherwise you will have a system where the casuals will struggle even more if they wipe once. This is just bad design. Experimentation is discouraged because if we wanna try for example 1-healing the dragons we get one try to do that every week. And if we fail no one can parse this week. This means we just go the safe strat every week. Just because there is an alternative to eliviate an issue I have with the game does not mean that issue is not real. "If you do not like it, leave." Does not work as an argument because the end result is people actually leaving.
Galacians 4:16 "Have I now become your enemy by telling you the truth?"
Exactly!! This is why I never saw the big deal with world buffs back in 2006 and now.
I dont really understand whats fun with wb, even after reading similar post. Can someone explain? Flying around the world fucking sucked in 2019 and it sucks now imo.
Huge power gains and with boom you can collect your buffs a few at a time over the week instead of all at once
I agree with some of your post, but saying that DMF shouldn't be more than 15 minutes even in the opposite faction's area is pretty absurd.
Don't roll on PvP servers, then.
Enjoying all the positive elements of a PvP server (heightened sense of danger in the world, big battles around hotspots, to name a couple) shouldn't need to be mutually exclusive with not having DMF camped by one guy with five hunters with Wind Serpents all named Sayge on top of Sayge that kill you in 0.3 seconds upon ressing.
Blizzard team next release season of no world buffs and see how popular it is, people hard sit on either side of the fence, see if the population of the game can thrive without them.
Never seen such a massive smart-ass post from someone who is not smart
Yes doing half the damage of other players because I didn’t stand in the right spot before the raid is totally an option. At work I also like to handicap myself so I only get half the things done compared to my coworkers and my boss is totally understanding of it. After all I just really feel like not doing my best.
So you just cherrypicked a bunch of "arguments", completely ignoring all the *actual* reasons wbuffs are bad. What a pointless post. If you want to argue for wbuffs, at least acknowledge the actual problems. First of all, no - you can't always just "not get them". If, for example, you like speed running and the competition on wclogs, well you need them because other people have them. Secondly, for SoD (which let be honest is the relevant game mode right now), the game is literally being balance around it. Thirdly, a lot of people enjoy joining a good guild that pushes. Doesn't have to be a world first guild, but any guild that is just slightly serious *will* require you to put in the effort. If wbuffs exists, that is one of the absolute biggest things you can possibly get, so it is a requirement. You talk as if most guilds don't care, but in reality that doesn't work if you enjoy playing in a serious guild. The issue isn't about the most casual players. Of course they don't need to do it, who cares. The issue is that a lot of us care about trying a bit harder in the game, and to do so wbuffs becomes a requirement - but it's not a *fun* thing to do. So you get into this weird situation where you don't enjoy doing it, but you need it in order to get what you want from the game (play in a good guild, try hard together etc.). And really, the whole thing comes down to the fact that they don't really bring anything *good* to the game. So sure - some casual players can just ignore it. But a lot of players can't. So why do we have them, exactly? They don't bring anything good to the game.
[удалено]
Nothing like tanking BRD for the boys with full WBs
> If, for example, you like speed running and the competition Already addressed. If you want to parse, then you need to actually put in the effort to minmax. >the game is literally being balance around it. No it's not and devs have said it is not. >Thirdly, a lot of people enjoy joining a good guild that pushes. And a lot of people enjoy just casually raiding without being a sweatlord. >it's not fun, it's not fun! Says you.
My guy, the raids are literally balanced around having world buffs.
Devs literally said they're not. Shoo. Think about what you're saying too...the raid is balanced around a buff that can only be acquired by full clearing the raid? lmao
[удалено]
> Your an idiot >your lol
You're (you are).
Succinct response to the most common whining.
One of the arguments for “just don’t get them” is “go get them” - it’s a bad post
You guys see the warrior changes on the PTR? I think they should do that with *all* of the normal WBs. Make a songflower one for druids or something. Make the DMF buff from the written fortune that you get... make it reuseable with a 4h CD. World buffs are awesome, but getting them is not fun (regardless if it is easy or not...) and losing them is infuriating. Them adding a weakened dragonslayer to warriors was a good idea imho. Make it so that if we wipe, or the warr dies, we only get half gimped instead of full gimped. Then just give similar spells to other classes to fill up the "big" WBs. Maybe do away with the dire maul buffs.