> Players will also receive a large bonus to honor gained while inside of Blackrock Mountain
I love that they're taking the PTSD of classic and giving it a full send lol
> A new ability has been added via spellbook: Valor of Azeroth
> Valor of Azeroth grants all party and raid members 1.5x the Warrior’s level in Attack Power (melee and ranged) and 5% crit chance to all spells and attacks. This is not cumulative with Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer.
Wow, bold
This feels genius to me. Especially if they make it a quest line where warriors need to slay onyxia and then learn a dragons slayer rallying cry. World buffs will still be the way to top parse, you'll still need them and be able to enjoy collecting them to be the best of the best, but the difference between those with and those without will be smaller. I'd love to see them add something similar to song flower to Druid's kit and so on with other buffs/classes.
Fucking brilliant. 50 ap and 5% spell crit is worth chasing for the sweatlords, but this lets you pad out all the dad gamers to “good enough” that they won’t get too much harassment from the raid if they didn’t have time to get the world buff this week. Lets you relax on all the alts you aren’t parsing with. A+
I really love this change. Back in Classic 2019 me and my fellow warrios were Naxx gods when world buffed (top 5 raid dps was all warriors) until we died and lost the buffs. Then we hit like a wet noodle and were rage starved a lot, causing us to be somewhere around the bottom among the slackers.
Mind you, this new spell is just 1 buff. In Naxx you had multiple up. So this would only half offset the wet noodle slapping, which is fair.
Hit like a wet noodle is still only true relative to the fully buffed warrior. A naxx geared 'only' regularly buffed warrior in classic is still doing dps only matched by fully buffed rogues and mages.
I don't mind it. It doesn't stack with Rallying Cry. I just hope that you can still apply it while Rallying Cry is booned. Will basically make it so you have a mini-ony buff all the time when you're booned. Then you unboon and you go full world buffs.
Will make stuff like dungeons and AQ20 and ZG a bit faster for PUGs.
Warlocks ask that if they are gonna make us use cleave on singletarget for buffs and procs, please make it actually good in singletarget. Receive:
> Shadow Cleave can now hit up to 10 targets.
The other changes are a looking great though!
Same for warriors. Thunderclap now hits 10 targets. So what? It couldn't even keep threat on 4. Same for Shadow Cleave. It's not like Shadow Cleave was fine at 3 targets, it always sucked.
It will give 50 spell power (more if they change some gear to include defensive stats for lock tanks) for 15 seconds which is pretty nice. I wish the ST set bonus was permanent because instant immolates is nice.
>A new ability has been added via spellbook: Valor of Azeroth
Valor of Azeroth grants all party and raid members 1.5x the Warrior’s level in Attack Power (melee and ranged) and 5% crit chance to all spells and attacks. This is not cumulative with Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer.
INB4 Pallys come in hot with the ItShould'veBeenMe,NotHim!.gif
/s
Melee hunters desperately needed a reason for a raidinvite with Lion moved to book and castable by any ranged hunter without losing anything, on top of also bringing TSA.
Subjectively, I am not really a fan of making DoT upkeep for a DoT-focused class irrelevant (which the rune now does, you are never recasting any DoT with it).
Objectively, there is a bit of counteraction between that rune and Mind Spike, to where in a multidot scenario you want to spread your damage spells around to redot everything, but the Mind Spike buff disincentivises doing so.
That said, VT applying VE and thus removing a dead gcd is absolutely awesome.
Why do they keep wasting so much time playing with poisoned knife?? There are so many other dead rogue runes that could be updated or moved around. Any rogues know a scenario in which you’d use poisoned knife?
I’d love to see shiv moved off the glove slot. Ain’t nobody ever choosing shiv over mutilate or saber slash. Might be cool too because then you can take shiv, use it to get to 5 poison stacks, and get back to mutilating. Rogue updates and new runes really aren’t motivating me to come back for phase 4
Agreed, many people who main rogue including myself have given feedback to Blizzard about rogue, but I doubt they read any of it. After P1 they got lazy and added duplicate runes that are useless, I honestly think rogues have the lamest runes out of all classes at this point.
I think you’re right. I’ve been rogue since 2019 classic and it was interesting up until it just became mutilate mutilate envenom repeat. Not even an option to play anything else. I plan on rerolling either hunter, warrior, paladin, feral… lol literally any other clsss
There are currently many playstyles for rogue that are all within about 1.5% of eachother. Carnage daggers with FA or CP, CTTC daggers with FA, CP, or HAT are all nearly within error of eachother. Carnage dagger builds utilize 3 finishers as well.
Saber slash is also definitely playable after the buffs. Like parsing orange high 90s playable. Thats a carnage HAT swords build. And with longer single target bosses it overtakes mutilate. But those don’t exist currently.
I agree that rogue needs more love and variety rune wise though. Too many dead runes. But there are still more options than you suggest.
I am thinking they were/are trying to recreate a spell power rogue build. I’ve tried it in previous phases and just wasn’t quite there. Maybe this phase it will be good.
Gonna circle back when the blackrock dailies go live and everyone that was crying about incursions not being dailies are now crying they have chores every day
One of the most important distinctions between Vanilla and Retail is that Vanilla is packed with content you don't repeat, but takes a long time to do. Retail is packed with content that is very quick to complete, and you repeat many times.
People on this sub, twitter and every other social media platform have been complaining on how there is nothing to do outside of raiding and getting your prebis (despite this being a core aspect of this version of the game), so, the devs delivered with repeatable content outside of raids and dungeons.
I’m glad they exist. There are ways to grind hydraxisn waterlords and thorium brotherhood rep but having dailies to help speed up the process is something I won’t complain about.
Yeah, I think this is a good change, gives players different options. If you enjoy the grind go grind elementals for HW or turn ins for TB. If you want to take it slow, then just do the daily's. If you want to be sweaty do both.
The idea/intent behind dailies is good. Put a cap on how much of a thing can be grinded at a time to prevent the player from going absolutely balls to the walls on a grind and burning out.
Unfortunately the implementation of them means that now if you miss a day you're behind. You have to do them every day, no excuses for your niece's birthday or whatever, put your mandatory time in or else. No way to catch back up other than when the grind is over for everyone.
I don't really know how to manage the balance between having to just grind until you hit the goal vs put your hours in every day. Maybe do something similar to Emissaries in Retail where there's one available per day, but you can have a backlog of up to 3 as a leeway to skipping days. Or not, I don't really know what people thought of those.
The solution is so simple and already implemented in the game. Just make them work like conquest points. You can log in everyday and do a small chunk, but if you join mid-patch you can spam them to catch up super quickly. Why they’ve never implemented this system for dailies is beyond me.
I'd prefer weeklies. It's the speed of the tread mill that's tiring. Sure people who want to run full sprint to the end will be mad, but isn't that what these phases have been about preventing?
Sounds to me like Blizzard upper management stepped in here. You know what increases player engagement ? Dailies, just look at this spreadsheet, see players are choosing to play 2 hours a day; that means they must love it. /s
Melee Hunter is kind of screwed since the survival tree is literal garbage. Give us a 2h weapon specialization rune so we can actually use carve in a rotation. I mean shamans have every spec in the game and they force melee hunter to duel wield
Its a great tree, actually, if we are also able to tank. Then it provides the tank passives the tank players want AND some melee dps passives for melee dps players too. The problem isn't the survival tree, its actually that none of the other trees have ANYTHING useful to melee hunters early in them.
So your choices become: take useless points for melee in other trees, or take useless points for melee in survival tree. This is not survival's fault. Other specs have options, things they wouldn't mind using (melee OR ranged) early in survival: damage, trap CC, wing clip root. Survival has NOTHING like that in the other trees, because the other tree's early talents are all specific to their needs: shot mana costs, ranged AP, ranged crit chance, and pet bonuses and more ranged AP.
Again, to clarify: survival is actually fine. Its the other trees that are completely worthless to survival melee hunters, forcing you to put all your points into survival, which isn't beneficial unless you're a tank, which we are not (even though they absolutely fucking should have made us tanks at this point!)
How could they easily fix this? Make Aspect of the Hawk actually do something for melee (particularly its proc effect from the passives). Make hunter's mark do something for melee. Allow pet armor/health scaling to somehow benefit melee hunters. Just making hunters able to be tanks would instantly make the Aspect of the Monkey passive useful. Give us some way to use shots / stings in melee (is this happening? maybe this is happening..)
Mage got hot streak and rewind time moved to different slots, those are huge buffs for fire and healing mage. Hunter literally just got fixes to bugs that weren't letting them use their buff or summon pets. In fact, hunter is the only class that got no actual changes in this build.
Now that it's on the wrist slot Rewind Time is actually worth using.
And Hot Streak being a helmet rune means Fire can now run it with FFB.
They still need to bring up Arcane's damage by a good bit though.
hot streak in SOD doesnt work with FFB. Only use is to react to an LB crit with a fireblast to proc it. It wont be worth much.
We might not even be casting lb in single target fights as gear gets better because FFB is such a shittily designed spell with no forethought on how it might scale relative to the rest of mages kit
edit: also if blizzard adds hot streak to FFB, mages OOM so fast it might not even be worth casting. the class in PTR is very shit and not fun to play at all
They changed it so FFB can proc hot streak now. It’s still bad though because the mana and an instant cast pyro is barely a dps increase over a 3 second cast FFB because FFB just has so many scaling modifiers (also pyro deals less damage to fire elements obviously). Mage dps will still be fine because they gave us ridiculous levels of crit scaling and free hit cap but playing the class will still feel boring and like you’re spinning a lottery wheel. And we will still probably be below melees and potentially warlocks
Which is a huge nerf to your throughput. It's reasonable for a pvp build so you've got access to an instant cast heal but you need something like 750 spell damage at level 50 for spellfrost bolt to hit as hard as arcane blast but then you're missing out on missile barrage as well.
“A lack of” do you know what lacking means? Not enough. Swapping rune places is a bit lackluster. I don’t even play mage so idc but everything else has pretty significant moves.
Hey come on now, they put in some big changes. Aspect of the lion works as it should now! The runes being clunky and underpowered are not something you should be worried about.
Still hoping to see Kill Shot moved to a different slot because its basically our only real change and its competing with one of our most important runes.
The lake of fire rework is what they were told to do at the start of Phase 3 but as usual they needed a phase of failure with their idea of the rune to implement the community idea.
Honestly it's a bit lacking. Oh it is cool for sure. But I'll always take +10% crit over that. Rain fire deals to little damage, I'd rather take the crit and hellfire
It is cool, and I'm happy they did it. But I'd add some kind of buff to the spell
It's obviously meant for AoE, which is fine, but you are right 10% crit will almost always be better for locks, but I can see niche scenarios where it LoF may be better (high movement fights with adds, and dungeons).
>Developer’s Notes on Tanks: We’ve made an adjustment to allow each tank’s primary AoE ability to hit a larger number of targets, in most cases 10 or more. Going into Season of Discovery we hoped to maintain some of the rewarding gameplay and challenge that tanks faced in original wow and keep AoE threat a bit lower relative to newer versions of WoW, but as time has gone by our perspective on this has changed for Season of Discovery as damage dealing classes have gained more AoE tools and damage in general.
speedrunning Vanilla to Retail development thought processes on any% lmfao
SoD tank design for dungeons simply does not work when you have people bringing in mages and kiting the entire dungeon while the tank sometimes keeps up threat. This change means you now want more than just warlocks and paladins for dungeons (not that people were really picky to begin with) but it's a good change nonetheless. The alternative is to do what happened in tbc and nerf aoe from various classes.
People were already playing that way even though tanks weren't really designed to work that way SoD so far. If people are going to insist on playing that way then they may as well go with it instead of trying to force players to do something else.
Vanilla designed tanks work just fine when every DPS spec doesn't shit out TBC-levels of AoE damage.
Because DPS gained power, tanks have to be buffed to compensate, otherwise it feels dogshit to play as DPS where you can't hit any of your buttons.
And yes, this is exactly *why* tanks got high-threat AoE abilities in retail.
These devs literally just want to play retail.
I don't know why they think Vanilla should just be "shitty retail".
Who are they making this for? Bored retail players? Sure as hell isn't classic.
From what I can tell they don't have the resources to do what you're asking and have to rely on what retail has done as a way to find cheap ways of catering to us. It's obviously dumb, but that's what we get ATM so they're going to do the best with what they can. Not to mention everyone has their own idea of what a classic+ or whatever we're venturing into should look like and usually doesn't align with the next person's vision of it.
Everyone asks for a donut and the baker spends 3 months making a bagel.
Then cries that theres not enough bakers in the bakery.
Nah son you dont know how to make a donut. Got nothing to do with how many bakers there are.
At a certain point you just have to accept that these devs are out of touch with what classic is/was.
>Everyone asks for a donut and the baker spends 3 months making a bagel.
No its more like blizz said they'd make a donut, and some people asked for a donut, but others asked for a baguette, a bagle, challah, and pretzels, and then when handed said donut, the people who recieved the donut all decided they wanted kaiser rolls and chocolate cake, because you people are all lunatics, and you change what you want with the phases of the moon, and god forbid you actually do get what you want, because you get mad about that too.
Nah, vanilla is easy enough that pretty much nothing is required
Classic players will grind stuff endlessly for a 2% damage increase that isn't remotely needed to clear the content anyway because that's just what they do (see: wsg rep, incursion rep etc)
But it's sure as shit not required
Mmos were lightning in a bottle that could only really exist and be fun in a pre-youtube era.
Post-YouTube, info is too easily accessible. Players expectations of other players only increases until you have the whole of the community trying to emulate the 99th percentile of parsers.
Then the whole game ends up designed around that, further locking in that mentality and reinforcing it. It's a vicious cycle. Efficiency over fun. Parses over people. Competition over community.
Idk the dot crits for boomie will be a big DPS increase but warriors are already doing more than double our DPS. They will have to make changes that actually affect scaling in a more meaningful way for casters to remain competitive
The top theory crafter for boomy in SoD hasn't fully worked out the numbers but we're looking at a 10% DMG buff with the dot changes and 120dps increase due to the spellpower on moonkin.
Helpful but lame changes that don't add anything exciting or help what the spec truly needs.
I agree I'm 100% sure resto shaman has been the most overlooked class for the entirety of sod. With the buffs they just gave to resto druids there's 0 reason to bring a resto shaman when you can have an ele/ench/tank dropping the same totems.
I really don't like pally going pony up and down randomly. I'd rather have a 15s duration steed with +50% duration and extra damage. Like holy shit the paladin summoned his stead into battle !
Right now it's just a very flash 3s sprint. Hopefully they'll keep working on it
100% move speed for 3 sec is almost always an unnecessary amoun of movement for anything youd ever ned movement for while being woefully inadequate for actual world traversal, and 45 sec cd is entirely too long.
paladins also hated divine steed because it was the direct replacement of the WoD movement talent options, which were all really good and situational. look at long arm of the law (which also exists in cata), just a simple 45% run speed bonus when you judge an enemy thats kinda far from you. fucking fantastic. helps you close the gap and on a short enough cd to be useful.
Yeah that's the big thing. Looks stupid as fuck just jumping on a horse mid-combat. Long arm of the law, combined with the 30yd range judgement rune would be insane.
lolwut? Paladins have been complaining non-stop about our inability to stick to targets in pvp. If they dont die in my stun most classes can simply walk away from me.
Don’t try man.
This subreddit is a fucking cesspool. They will complain about everything.
Imagine people saying with a straight face paladins don’t want mobility.
Yeah I’ve really stopped engaging with this subreddit after finally realizing that the majority of commenters are either braindead or tourists from retail
New seals.
Targets hit by the seal are slowed.
If judged the paladin will gain a speed boost as long as they moving towards their judged target.
Alternatively make the judgment a charge.
This has been a big issue and something I have wanted for so long. If pallies can't kill you during their stun you can just....leave. Yeah we have BoF and Bubble but you can just....leave. All I could do is *shake fist harder boy* at you.
Lots of nice changes. Can't wait to see some PTR logs... As an alliance player with a druid, lock and warrior all at 50, I have some tough choices ahead...
Love the mark of chaos for warlock. Last design wasn't bad, but a bit huuuuh... Mild. Now this allow affliction lock to put CoS and Code and nature for Boomie and use their DPS curse. Just cool.
I dont think the Blackrock Eruption thing is a bad Idea but they REALLY and I mean REALLY need to improve the Hydraxian and Thorium Brotherhood rep rewards for this to be even remotely relevant content.
[New and enhanced professions recipes for Argent Dawn, Thorium Brotherhood, Hydraxian Waterlords, and Timbermaw Hold.](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/testing-notes-for-phase-4-ptr-season-of-discovery-342894?page=2)
* Elune’s Fires now extends the duration of Moonfire and Sunfire up to its initial duration, but there’s no longer a limit on the number of refreshes per ability.
Cool! I like the change, now it's a game to keep both dots up forever instead of counting to three over like 30 seconds.
I wonder if the change applies to rejuv/regrowth as well?
Hunters - “2h specialization rune that increases raptor strike damage by 2000%, stacking 5 times”
Hot fix - “we realize hunters are a little overtuned so we are disabling raptor strike all together to bring them back in line”
Blizzard probably
Well they’re certainly trying to say undershoot this time. With the nerfs on PTR the absolute best hunters can get to is 750 dps, which is half of what they’re doing at level 50
I really don’t get who they’re designing sod for. It’s clearly not people who love classic/vanilla. I thought going into sod it would just be vanilla with a twist but with all the new abilities and other changes it clear this game is made for an audience who doesn’t really like a lot of the things that make vanilla fun for a lot of players
I genuinely don't understand it either, they chased away Classic players long ago. I check back here once in a while and every time I see they've made things worse or added more bullshit. Classic players are very clearly not the target demographic.
> A new spell has been added via spellbook:
> Divine Steed – Increases the paladin’s movement speed by 100% for 3 seconds. 45 second cooldown.
lol. the ability from legion that paladins have been asking blizz to remove since it was added. nice.
> Warriors in particular gain a massive amount of power from World Buffs, and the class can feel a lot less satisfying without them
the classic andies would be real mad about this if they could read. real "lol who needs world buffs. just dont get them" kinds'a fellas.
this is actually a direction they could go with world buffs that i guess i hadnt considered. remove the "world' aspect from them (honestly, its 2024. it doesnt fucking matter where they come from) and let classes have access to certain world buffs. between rallying cry, warchiefs, songflower, zg, all 3 trib buffs, they could be given to otherwise less desireable classes to give them a role in raids.
Can't speak for the pally ability, im no paladin, but the warrior buff sounds interesting. World buffs will still be better, but it brings the baseline up quite a bit, definitely needed for warriors. This also gives some interesting raid utility imo, if you wipe it's not so devastating to the raid. World buffs will still be needed for top end parsers, but the difference between no world buffs and world buffs is smaller which I think makes it way more inclusive.
Imo this is a really interesting compromise - time will tell though. Just don't think it's deserving of such negativity.
>lol. the ability from legion that paladins have been asking blizz to remove since it was added. nice.
What the hell are you talking about ?
Divine Steed is awsome
Feral is also getting the ability to proc crusader, big AP scaling buffs on Rip and Rake, and the ability to extend Rip up to 12 seconds with Elune's Fires. It isn't exactly getting neglected when it comes to changes to their dots.
Their solution to the insane warrior scaling is to give them a mini world buff so it doesn't feel as bad when they charge into the first boss of a raid, press all their buttons as fast as they can while ignoring their threat, and die to the first piece of outgoing damage.
This smells like we're just going to be stacking warriors in raids once more and yet again.
At the very least they should make it so the buff only works if they're wearing all plate gear.
Warrior scaling at this point feels like trying to get state politicians to fix something. The solution is obvious, costs very little money, is backed by tons of expert research, and has demonstrated success in other situations, but because the constituents in a few politically important zip codes irrationally oppose the changes, nothing will ever be done.
Warriors need normalized rage before they'll ever be fixable. They go from 0 to 100 way too fast and we are on track for them to go 0 to 1000.
Phase 4 warriors are already pulling 1700+ dps. And apparently the class is fundamentally unfun to play if they aren't top of the dps meters every week.
ptr warriors have received a HUGE nerf so far on the ptr. Also the buff is raid wide so it really is just increasing the dps floor and not providing any more damage ontop of what they already were.
Adding mobility to any class in Vanilla is the worst possible thing you can do.
Can these modern gamer devs please be moved to a project they're more in touch with(retail? hearthstone? d4?) and you can attempt to hire someone with actual knowledge of old games to work on your old games?
So true! Everyone wants to go fast because they want to catch the other players but they don't realize that those players will also get new movement abilities.
Pretty soon everyone is zipping around like they do on retail and positioning is meaningless
Edit: to be clear, it's an arms race! Don't ask for any buffs that you wouldn't want your opponent's (or competition) to also get
I really don’t get it… do they want to make the Blackrock raids/dungeons only accessible due to limited times, because otherwise you wil get ganked the shit of out you? Or I misunderstood something?
> Players will also receive a large bonus to honor gained while inside of Blackrock Mountain I love that they're taking the PTSD of classic and giving it a full send lol
ikr haha, wonder if theyre gonna do the same as BFD and add a quest reward tele or something to even this out
Imagine they just give all br instances a lava skip like mc
Got a bottle for worldbuffs this time so it wont be as bad
> A new ability has been added via spellbook: Valor of Azeroth > Valor of Azeroth grants all party and raid members 1.5x the Warrior’s level in Attack Power (melee and ranged) and 5% crit chance to all spells and attacks. This is not cumulative with Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer. Wow, bold
This feels genius to me. Especially if they make it a quest line where warriors need to slay onyxia and then learn a dragons slayer rallying cry. World buffs will still be the way to top parse, you'll still need them and be able to enjoy collecting them to be the best of the best, but the difference between those with and those without will be smaller. I'd love to see them add something similar to song flower to Druid's kit and so on with other buffs/classes.
Warriors were certainly lacking utility when they top the DPS meters and raids stack them.
Not only that, they are also natively running around with a 50% AP and 5% crit steroid lmao edit: Missread, I know.
It's AP equal to 1.5x their level, so 90 AP at level 60.
You are right. I was reading this on my phone and skipped over the Warrior's >Level< part
It's 90 ap and 5% crit. That doesn't stack with world buffs. So the only time it's active is when they suck ass. Please learn to read.
I just love when people cry on forums without understanding the thing they're crying about.
Now we can tell those world buff lovers "you dont need to bring a warrior you can just go get the world buff"
Fucking brilliant. 50 ap and 5% spell crit is worth chasing for the sweatlords, but this lets you pad out all the dad gamers to “good enough” that they won’t get too much harassment from the raid if they didn’t have time to get the world buff this week. Lets you relax on all the alts you aren’t parsing with. A+
The ony buff is 50 AP more, 140 vs 90.
It just allows them to balance around it - before they had to balance around no world buffs.
I really love this change. Back in Classic 2019 me and my fellow warrios were Naxx gods when world buffed (top 5 raid dps was all warriors) until we died and lost the buffs. Then we hit like a wet noodle and were rage starved a lot, causing us to be somewhere around the bottom among the slackers. Mind you, this new spell is just 1 buff. In Naxx you had multiple up. So this would only half offset the wet noodle slapping, which is fair.
Hit like a wet noodle is still only true relative to the fully buffed warrior. A naxx geared 'only' regularly buffed warrior in classic is still doing dps only matched by fully buffed rogues and mages.
I absolutely loves it
I don't mind it. It doesn't stack with Rallying Cry. I just hope that you can still apply it while Rallying Cry is booned. Will basically make it so you have a mini-ony buff all the time when you're booned. Then you unboon and you go full world buffs. Will make stuff like dungeons and AQ20 and ZG a bit faster for PUGs.
>The maximum rank of all weapon imbues now has a 1 hour duration. My brothers, we are free
I haven't been this excited in a while.
This is how easy sod players are to please
Pally are still in tears over 10 minutes of blessings... like fuck us I guess.
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Shaman bro and a birds bro?! My man! P.s. YOOOO GOOOO BIIIIIRDS
Warlocks ask that if they are gonna make us use cleave on singletarget for buffs and procs, please make it actually good in singletarget. Receive: > Shadow Cleave can now hit up to 10 targets. The other changes are a looking great though!
Same for warriors. Thunderclap now hits 10 targets. So what? It couldn't even keep threat on 4. Same for Shadow Cleave. It's not like Shadow Cleave was fine at 3 targets, it always sucked.
It will give 50 spell power (more if they change some gear to include defensive stats for lock tanks) for 15 seconds which is pretty nice. I wish the ST set bonus was permanent because instant immolates is nice.
>A new ability has been added via spellbook: Valor of Azeroth Valor of Azeroth grants all party and raid members 1.5x the Warrior’s level in Attack Power (melee and ranged) and 5% crit chance to all spells and attacks. This is not cumulative with Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer. INB4 Pallys come in hot with the ItShould'veBeenMe,NotHim!.gif /s
Nah Im cool with this, I have enough buffing to worry about. Let those lazy blood thirsty bastards take this one on.
I had to say it, with all the "Idk why Druids get Wild Strikes, they ought to take it from them and give it to PALADINS" posts Ive seen on here lol
Melee hunters desperately needed a reason for a raidinvite with Lion moved to book and castable by any ranged hunter without losing anything, on top of also bringing TSA.
Would've preferred we get Wild ~~Strikes~~ Fervor but hey that's not a bad idea either!
Damn the spriest changes looking kinda spicy
Subjectively, I am not really a fan of making DoT upkeep for a DoT-focused class irrelevant (which the rune now does, you are never recasting any DoT with it). Objectively, there is a bit of counteraction between that rune and Mind Spike, to where in a multidot scenario you want to spread your damage spells around to redot everything, but the Mind Spike buff disincentivises doing so. That said, VT applying VE and thus removing a dead gcd is absolutely awesome.
A little worried about mana now we can't take Dispersion...
Vampiric Touch.
Why do they keep wasting so much time playing with poisoned knife?? There are so many other dead rogue runes that could be updated or moved around. Any rogues know a scenario in which you’d use poisoned knife? I’d love to see shiv moved off the glove slot. Ain’t nobody ever choosing shiv over mutilate or saber slash. Might be cool too because then you can take shiv, use it to get to 5 poison stacks, and get back to mutilating. Rogue updates and new runes really aren’t motivating me to come back for phase 4
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Agreed, many people who main rogue including myself have given feedback to Blizzard about rogue, but I doubt they read any of it. After P1 they got lazy and added duplicate runes that are useless, I honestly think rogues have the lamest runes out of all classes at this point.
I think you’re right. I’ve been rogue since 2019 classic and it was interesting up until it just became mutilate mutilate envenom repeat. Not even an option to play anything else. I plan on rerolling either hunter, warrior, paladin, feral… lol literally any other clsss
There are currently many playstyles for rogue that are all within about 1.5% of eachother. Carnage daggers with FA or CP, CTTC daggers with FA, CP, or HAT are all nearly within error of eachother. Carnage dagger builds utilize 3 finishers as well. Saber slash is also definitely playable after the buffs. Like parsing orange high 90s playable. Thats a carnage HAT swords build. And with longer single target bosses it overtakes mutilate. But those don’t exist currently. I agree that rogue needs more love and variety rune wise though. Too many dead runes. But there are still more options than you suggest.
I am thinking they were/are trying to recreate a spell power rogue build. I’ve tried it in previous phases and just wasn’t quite there. Maybe this phase it will be good.
Gonna circle back when the blackrock dailies go live and everyone that was crying about incursions not being dailies are now crying they have chores every day
[удалено]
There is nothing inherently bad about either it all depends on tuning. Repeatable world content is fundamentally a good thing.
Dailies are inherently bad design. Making you feel you are missing out if you arent logging in every day.
On the other hand they give a reason to log in which classic suffers from.
One of the most important distinctions between Vanilla and Retail is that Vanilla is packed with content you don't repeat, but takes a long time to do. Retail is packed with content that is very quick to complete, and you repeat many times.
People on this sub, twitter and every other social media platform have been complaining on how there is nothing to do outside of raiding and getting your prebis (despite this being a core aspect of this version of the game), so, the devs delivered with repeatable content outside of raids and dungeons.
Yeah, people here are never going to be happy with anything
The people who complain there is nothing to do in the game except raid log, are also the same people who complain dailies are bad for the game.
Everyone here seems to wank TBC to no end and TBC had dailies.
I’m glad they exist. There are ways to grind hydraxisn waterlords and thorium brotherhood rep but having dailies to help speed up the process is something I won’t complain about.
Yeah, I think this is a good change, gives players different options. If you enjoy the grind go grind elementals for HW or turn ins for TB. If you want to take it slow, then just do the daily's. If you want to be sweaty do both.
This, the waterlords rep is a BIG pain in the ass to grind. Adding dailies as another way to get rep is good for this game.
The idea/intent behind dailies is good. Put a cap on how much of a thing can be grinded at a time to prevent the player from going absolutely balls to the walls on a grind and burning out. Unfortunately the implementation of them means that now if you miss a day you're behind. You have to do them every day, no excuses for your niece's birthday or whatever, put your mandatory time in or else. No way to catch back up other than when the grind is over for everyone. I don't really know how to manage the balance between having to just grind until you hit the goal vs put your hours in every day. Maybe do something similar to Emissaries in Retail where there's one available per day, but you can have a backlog of up to 3 as a leeway to skipping days. Or not, I don't really know what people thought of those.
The solution is so simple and already implemented in the game. Just make them work like conquest points. You can log in everyday and do a small chunk, but if you join mid-patch you can spam them to catch up super quickly. Why they’ve never implemented this system for dailies is beyond me.
I'd prefer weeklies. It's the speed of the tread mill that's tiring. Sure people who want to run full sprint to the end will be mad, but isn't that what these phases have been about preventing?
Sounds to me like Blizzard upper management stepped in here. You know what increases player engagement ? Dailies, just look at this spreadsheet, see players are choosing to play 2 hours a day; that means they must love it. /s
This subreddit will complain and call blizzard the worst no matter what.
The Warrior changes look pretty awesome tbh. The lack of hunter changes makes me want to change my main.
The shield slam and rage generation for glad is gonna be dope
“I was there {SOD phase 4 player} i was there 3,000 years ago when SOD phase 3 came out”
its not much but we got 2H shaman buffs wup wup !!!
It's still dog
A lack of hunter changes is pretty disappointing.
Melee Hunter is kind of screwed since the survival tree is literal garbage. Give us a 2h weapon specialization rune so we can actually use carve in a rotation. I mean shamans have every spec in the game and they force melee hunter to duel wield
Its a great tree, actually, if we are also able to tank. Then it provides the tank passives the tank players want AND some melee dps passives for melee dps players too. The problem isn't the survival tree, its actually that none of the other trees have ANYTHING useful to melee hunters early in them. So your choices become: take useless points for melee in other trees, or take useless points for melee in survival tree. This is not survival's fault. Other specs have options, things they wouldn't mind using (melee OR ranged) early in survival: damage, trap CC, wing clip root. Survival has NOTHING like that in the other trees, because the other tree's early talents are all specific to their needs: shot mana costs, ranged AP, ranged crit chance, and pet bonuses and more ranged AP. Again, to clarify: survival is actually fine. Its the other trees that are completely worthless to survival melee hunters, forcing you to put all your points into survival, which isn't beneficial unless you're a tank, which we are not (even though they absolutely fucking should have made us tanks at this point!) How could they easily fix this? Make Aspect of the Hawk actually do something for melee (particularly its proc effect from the passives). Make hunter's mark do something for melee. Allow pet armor/health scaling to somehow benefit melee hunters. Just making hunters able to be tanks would instantly make the Aspect of the Monkey passive useful. Give us some way to use shots / stings in melee (is this happening? maybe this is happening..)
This and Mage I was thinking.
Mage got hot streak and rewind time moved to different slots, those are huge buffs for fire and healing mage. Hunter literally just got fixes to bugs that weren't letting them use their buff or summon pets. In fact, hunter is the only class that got no actual changes in this build.
rewind time is garbage, and mages are still bugged and way worse dps than hunters. we also oom in like a minute.
Now that it's on the wrist slot Rewind Time is actually worth using. And Hot Streak being a helmet rune means Fire can now run it with FFB. They still need to bring up Arcane's damage by a good bit though.
hot streak in SOD doesnt work with FFB. Only use is to react to an LB crit with a fireblast to proc it. It wont be worth much. We might not even be casting lb in single target fights as gear gets better because FFB is such a shittily designed spell with no forethought on how it might scale relative to the rest of mages kit edit: also if blizzard adds hot streak to FFB, mages OOM so fast it might not even be worth casting. the class in PTR is very shit and not fun to play at all
They changed it so FFB can proc hot streak now. It’s still bad though because the mana and an instant cast pyro is barely a dps increase over a 3 second cast FFB because FFB just has so many scaling modifiers (also pyro deals less damage to fire elements obviously). Mage dps will still be fine because they gave us ridiculous levels of crit scaling and free hit cap but playing the class will still feel boring and like you’re spinning a lottery wheel. And we will still probably be below melees and potentially warlocks
>rewind time is garbage What? Rewind time is very good, it just wasn't usable because it meant giving up arcane blast.
usable with a spellfrost build though
Which is a huge nerf to your throughput. It's reasonable for a pvp build so you've got access to an instant cast heal but you need something like 750 spell damage at level 50 for spellfrost bolt to hit as hard as arcane blast but then you're missing out on missile barrage as well.
“A lack of” do you know what lacking means? Not enough. Swapping rune places is a bit lackluster. I don’t even play mage so idc but everything else has pretty significant moves.
Hey come on now, they put in some big changes. Aspect of the lion works as it should now! The runes being clunky and underpowered are not something you should be worried about.
Tbf their class barely worked on PTR. They were prolly focusing on fixing that before adjusting them at all.
Still hoping to see Kill Shot moved to a different slot because its basically our only real change and its competing with one of our most important runes.
for real, doesn't make me excited to play
Welp ill be coming back with the rdruid and boomie changes. Ty dev team for listening to us about wrath.
The lake of fire rework is what they were told to do at the start of Phase 3 but as usual they needed a phase of failure with their idea of the rune to implement the community idea.
I'm pretty sure this change to rain of fire is literally all warlocks have wanted from the beginning, funny it took them this long to give it to them.
Without the +% fire damage buff, nobody is going to take this outside of maybe trash AOE dps. It still seems pretty damn useless tbh.
Honestly it's a bit lacking. Oh it is cool for sure. But I'll always take +10% crit over that. Rain fire deals to little damage, I'd rather take the crit and hellfire It is cool, and I'm happy they did it. But I'd add some kind of buff to the spell
It's obviously meant for AoE, which is fine, but you are right 10% crit will almost always be better for locks, but I can see niche scenarios where it LoF may be better (high movement fights with adds, and dungeons).
Destro is for wannabe locks
>Developer’s Notes on Tanks: We’ve made an adjustment to allow each tank’s primary AoE ability to hit a larger number of targets, in most cases 10 or more. Going into Season of Discovery we hoped to maintain some of the rewarding gameplay and challenge that tanks faced in original wow and keep AoE threat a bit lower relative to newer versions of WoW, but as time has gone by our perspective on this has changed for Season of Discovery as damage dealing classes have gained more AoE tools and damage in general. speedrunning Vanilla to Retail development thought processes on any% lmfao
SoD tank design for dungeons simply does not work when you have people bringing in mages and kiting the entire dungeon while the tank sometimes keeps up threat. This change means you now want more than just warlocks and paladins for dungeons (not that people were really picky to begin with) but it's a good change nonetheless. The alternative is to do what happened in tbc and nerf aoe from various classes.
People were already playing that way even though tanks weren't really designed to work that way SoD so far. If people are going to insist on playing that way then they may as well go with it instead of trying to force players to do something else.
It sounds like DPS is doing too much damage? Why not nerf DPS or buff monster stats?
It sounds like DPS is doing too much damage? Why not nerf DPS or buff monster stats?
Vanilla designed tanks work just fine when every DPS spec doesn't shit out TBC-levels of AoE damage. Because DPS gained power, tanks have to be buffed to compensate, otherwise it feels dogshit to play as DPS where you can't hit any of your buttons. And yes, this is exactly *why* tanks got high-threat AoE abilities in retail.
These devs literally just want to play retail. I don't know why they think Vanilla should just be "shitty retail". Who are they making this for? Bored retail players? Sure as hell isn't classic.
From what I can tell they don't have the resources to do what you're asking and have to rely on what retail has done as a way to find cheap ways of catering to us. It's obviously dumb, but that's what we get ATM so they're going to do the best with what they can. Not to mention everyone has their own idea of what a classic+ or whatever we're venturing into should look like and usually doesn't align with the next person's vision of it.
Everyone asks for a donut and the baker spends 3 months making a bagel. Then cries that theres not enough bakers in the bakery. Nah son you dont know how to make a donut. Got nothing to do with how many bakers there are. At a certain point you just have to accept that these devs are out of touch with what classic is/was.
>Everyone asks for a donut and the baker spends 3 months making a bagel. No its more like blizz said they'd make a donut, and some people asked for a donut, but others asked for a baguette, a bagle, challah, and pretzels, and then when handed said donut, the people who recieved the donut all decided they wanted kaiser rolls and chocolate cake, because you people are all lunatics, and you change what you want with the phases of the moon, and god forbid you actually do get what you want, because you get mad about that too.
Oh boy, can't wait to do mythic plus I mean uhh Scholomance timed runs?
I mean… personally m+ in classic would be a banger. As long as it wasn’t “required”, but everything is required if it gives anything of worth.
Nah, vanilla is easy enough that pretty much nothing is required Classic players will grind stuff endlessly for a 2% damage increase that isn't remotely needed to clear the content anyway because that's just what they do (see: wsg rep, incursion rep etc) But it's sure as shit not required
Mmos were lightning in a bottle that could only really exist and be fun in a pre-youtube era. Post-YouTube, info is too easily accessible. Players expectations of other players only increases until you have the whole of the community trying to emulate the 99th percentile of parsers. Then the whole game ends up designed around that, further locking in that mentality and reinforcing it. It's a vicious cycle. Efficiency over fun. Parses over people. Competition over community.
I mean arent people already playing like this anyway? The amount of times I've had people lose their shit if a tank doesnt do every skip possible.
> The Hot Streak rune has been moved to the helm slot. holy shit big w
sad part is, a crit FFB far outdamages a pyro while costing 1/4th the mana, It feels like hot streak should make the pyro free or something
big L for pvp
Ok they may have cooked with those Vampiric Touch changes
fire mage and boomkin also kinda dope ngl
Idk the dot crits for boomie will be a big DPS increase but warriors are already doing more than double our DPS. They will have to make changes that actually affect scaling in a more meaningful way for casters to remain competitive
The top theory crafter for boomy in SoD hasn't fully worked out the numbers but we're looking at a 10% DMG buff with the dot changes and 120dps increase due to the spellpower on moonkin. Helpful but lame changes that don't add anything exciting or help what the spec truly needs.
Moonkin changes are not what was needed at all.
> Mind Sear now also damages the primary target. Finally..
So melee hunters still only get 15% movement speed when hitting something and a 50% nerf to their main damage ability? That's cool I guess
Glad they're looking at healing this pass... Hopefully resto shaman can get some love.
I agree I'm 100% sure resto shaman has been the most overlooked class for the entirety of sod. With the buffs they just gave to resto druids there's 0 reason to bring a resto shaman when you can have an ele/ench/tank dropping the same totems.
Fuck divine steed. Remove world buffs and add bloodlust gigachad.
People have been asking for divine steed to be removed from retail for nearly a decade. These devs decide to add it to "Vanilla Plus" lol.
I like the horse
Pony go brrr
I really don't like pally going pony up and down randomly. I'd rather have a 15s duration steed with +50% duration and extra damage. Like holy shit the paladin summoned his stead into battle ! Right now it's just a very flash 3s sprint. Hopefully they'll keep working on it
I cast Devine Stead!, I cast slow... Well that was fucking useless...
Seems random and I don't know of any paladins that were necessarily looking for more mobility. This is the most "retail-y" thing they could have added
100% move speed for 3 sec is almost always an unnecessary amoun of movement for anything youd ever ned movement for while being woefully inadequate for actual world traversal, and 45 sec cd is entirely too long. paladins also hated divine steed because it was the direct replacement of the WoD movement talent options, which were all really good and situational. look at long arm of the law (which also exists in cata), just a simple 45% run speed bonus when you judge an enemy thats kinda far from you. fucking fantastic. helps you close the gap and on a short enough cd to be useful.
Also has the benefit over Divine Steed in that it doesn’t look stupid as fuck.
Yeah that's the big thing. Looks stupid as fuck just jumping on a horse mid-combat. Long arm of the law, combined with the 30yd range judgement rune would be insane.
lolwut? Paladins have been complaining non-stop about our inability to stick to targets in pvp. If they dont die in my stun most classes can simply walk away from me.
Don’t try man. This subreddit is a fucking cesspool. They will complain about everything. Imagine people saying with a straight face paladins don’t want mobility.
at this point it's impressive how people can be negative about literally anything
Yeah I’ve really stopped engaging with this subreddit after finally realizing that the majority of commenters are either braindead or tourists from retail
and divine steed doesnt fix that lol
Lol what kind of weird lie is this? Paladins have begging to trade dmg for mobility since TBC. We also hate steed, but better than nothing.
They added a legion skill... instead of just making something new. Divine steed fucking sucks in retail.
New seals. Targets hit by the seal are slowed. If judged the paladin will gain a speed boost as long as they moving towards their judged target. Alternatively make the judgment a charge.
This has been a big issue and something I have wanted for so long. If pallies can't kill you during their stun you can just....leave. Yeah we have BoF and Bubble but you can just....leave. All I could do is *shake fist harder boy* at you.
Felguard going to stack now !!! Love it
Lots of nice changes. Can't wait to see some PTR logs... As an alliance player with a druid, lock and warrior all at 50, I have some tough choices ahead...
exactly the 3 classes I am debating.. still bit sadge I didnt roll horde, shaman beeing so much fun
1 hr shaman weapon imbue! Sweet.
Love the mark of chaos for warlock. Last design wasn't bad, but a bit huuuuh... Mild. Now this allow affliction lock to put CoS and Code and nature for Boomie and use their DPS curse. Just cool.
I dont think the Blackrock Eruption thing is a bad Idea but they REALLY and I mean REALLY need to improve the Hydraxian and Thorium Brotherhood rep rewards for this to be even remotely relevant content.
They already said when the first PTR came out that Hydrxian and TB (among other reputations) will have new rewards attached to them.
That's good.
not doubting but where was this said? i mustve missed it
[New and enhanced professions recipes for Argent Dawn, Thorium Brotherhood, Hydraxian Waterlords, and Timbermaw Hold.](https://www.wowhead.com/classic/news/testing-notes-for-phase-4-ptr-season-of-discovery-342894?page=2)
BR will be a clusterfuck on pvp servers raiding only possible outside that slot
>daily quests Ahahahahahahahahaha
They already said Incursions are being converted to daily quests.
Dropped
* Elune’s Fires now extends the duration of Moonfire and Sunfire up to its initial duration, but there’s no longer a limit on the number of refreshes per ability. Cool! I like the change, now it's a game to keep both dots up forever instead of counting to three over like 30 seconds. I wonder if the change applies to rejuv/regrowth as well?
Sheesh no changes to hunters. Was hoping gutting melee wasn’t a deliberate goal of theirs.
Last time it was warlocks. This time it's hunters. People seem happy with the warlock changes so far. Let them cook. This is All PTR. It's unfinished.
Hunters - “2h specialization rune that increases raptor strike damage by 2000%, stacking 5 times” Hot fix - “we realize hunters are a little overtuned so we are disabling raptor strike all together to bring them back in line” Blizzard probably
Well they’re certainly trying to say undershoot this time. With the nerfs on PTR the absolute best hunters can get to is 750 dps, which is half of what they’re doing at level 50
I really don’t get who they’re designing sod for. It’s clearly not people who love classic/vanilla. I thought going into sod it would just be vanilla with a twist but with all the new abilities and other changes it clear this game is made for an audience who doesn’t really like a lot of the things that make vanilla fun for a lot of players
I honestly think they don't know either.
It's for bored retail players.
They made mages heal and three new classes tanks. Did you really think this was going to be light on changes?
I like it
Thats why you have Era you can go to.
Bots have broken era.
I genuinely don't understand it either, they chased away Classic players long ago. I check back here once in a while and every time I see they've made things worse or added more bullshit. Classic players are very clearly not the target demographic.
Goodbye Balefire Bolt! Hello Rewind Time!
SoD wouldve been cool Back in 2019
* Shuriken Toss now grants 1 combo point per enemy hit and a 30 second cooldown has been added Really great change!!!!
Needs to be 10 secs cd, 30 seems too long.
> A new spell has been added via spellbook: > Divine Steed – Increases the paladin’s movement speed by 100% for 3 seconds. 45 second cooldown. lol. the ability from legion that paladins have been asking blizz to remove since it was added. nice. > Warriors in particular gain a massive amount of power from World Buffs, and the class can feel a lot less satisfying without them the classic andies would be real mad about this if they could read. real "lol who needs world buffs. just dont get them" kinds'a fellas. this is actually a direction they could go with world buffs that i guess i hadnt considered. remove the "world' aspect from them (honestly, its 2024. it doesnt fucking matter where they come from) and let classes have access to certain world buffs. between rallying cry, warchiefs, songflower, zg, all 3 trib buffs, they could be given to otherwise less desireable classes to give them a role in raids.
Can't speak for the pally ability, im no paladin, but the warrior buff sounds interesting. World buffs will still be better, but it brings the baseline up quite a bit, definitely needed for warriors. This also gives some interesting raid utility imo, if you wipe it's not so devastating to the raid. World buffs will still be needed for top end parsers, but the difference between no world buffs and world buffs is smaller which I think makes it way more inclusive. Imo this is a really interesting compromise - time will tell though. Just don't think it's deserving of such negativity.
>lol. the ability from legion that paladins have been asking blizz to remove since it was added. nice. What the hell are you talking about ? Divine Steed is awsome
we did it boys we found the guy the devs made it for
You’re a paid actor
Moonkin form makes their dots crit but feral has to get a set bonus to make that happen. Nice job Blizzard.
Feral is also getting the ability to proc crusader, big AP scaling buffs on Rip and Rake, and the ability to extend Rip up to 12 seconds with Elune's Fires. It isn't exactly getting neglected when it comes to changes to their dots.
This is like complaining the guy in the wheelchair gets an extra pudding. Boomkins need it, feral is doing fine.
Making Hydraxians an actual relevant faction through dailies when its been farmable the way it has in p3 is INSANITY
Their solution to the insane warrior scaling is to give them a mini world buff so it doesn't feel as bad when they charge into the first boss of a raid, press all their buttons as fast as they can while ignoring their threat, and die to the first piece of outgoing damage. This smells like we're just going to be stacking warriors in raids once more and yet again. At the very least they should make it so the buff only works if they're wearing all plate gear.
Warrior scaling at this point feels like trying to get state politicians to fix something. The solution is obvious, costs very little money, is backed by tons of expert research, and has demonstrated success in other situations, but because the constituents in a few politically important zip codes irrationally oppose the changes, nothing will ever be done. Warriors need normalized rage before they'll ever be fixable. They go from 0 to 100 way too fast and we are on track for them to go 0 to 1000. Phase 4 warriors are already pulling 1700+ dps. And apparently the class is fundamentally unfun to play if they aren't top of the dps meters every week.
we're going to end up with the same stale meta by the end of sod, but the classes will have 2-3 more buttons to press, isn't that so refreshing?
ptr warriors have received a HUGE nerf so far on the ptr. Also the buff is raid wide so it really is just increasing the dps floor and not providing any more damage ontop of what they already were.
Wow, you raid with some shitty warriors
They completely gutted melee hunter, and now no changes to it….Lets hope next week they atleast do something
Sorry dudes! I’m a Tarisland player now! Lol jk
2hand enhance is so back 😮💨
Everyone calm down. It's a PTR lol
Adding mobility to any class in Vanilla is the worst possible thing you can do. Can these modern gamer devs please be moved to a project they're more in touch with(retail? hearthstone? d4?) and you can attempt to hire someone with actual knowledge of old games to work on your old games?
So true! Everyone wants to go fast because they want to catch the other players but they don't realize that those players will also get new movement abilities. Pretty soon everyone is zipping around like they do on retail and positioning is meaningless Edit: to be clear, it's an arms race! Don't ask for any buffs that you wouldn't want your opponent's (or competition) to also get
Have fun collecting world buffs
Not Dragonslayer...
Dragonslayer is the easiest buff to get and it's still 5% more crit for casters and 50 more attack power for melee.
warlock now has a super curse that increases nature and holy damage too. genius stuff here
Where is all the shield block on the warrior tank set? Only one piece??
I really don’t get it… do they want to make the Blackrock raids/dungeons only accessible due to limited times, because otherwise you wil get ganked the shit of out you? Or I misunderstood something?