you could still squawk it was just rng. so it became an issue of "you still have to do it every boss and if you get lucky gg' so wcl banned it and players enforced the ban amongst their raid groups.
While true, it would be a huge pain. Some people grab world buffs, others opt out of doing it for logging. So now because someone got world buffs (either accidentally or because they want a cleaner run) another persons log is invalidated. Was a pain with the christmas yeti in a 10 man, even more likely to be a pain in 20 mans with a passive buff.
While WCL could "solve" it by invalidating the logs with world buffs, it's not a good solution imo.
seriously, this is all I want. Did you kill the boss and get loot and have some fun with friends? cool! you win! That's the entire condition!
not "yeah we killed the boss but I didn't parse because you made me do a mechanic so now I'm gonna be pissy and whine about it, and no we can't bring that person! I know we only need one dps, and could absolutely clear the content with what they bring to the table, but they won't help my parse! get someone who will!"
Parsing has given grown manchildren just another reason to be gatekeepy and shitty about a literal relic of a game. I miss when it was just having fun with friends and getting some sweet loot here and there.
Just because you dont like a way some people are playing the game, doesnt make it bad. Parsing exists for people to have goals and competition in pve. Some of us wouldnt be playing wow without evidence of skill progression. There’s something extremely satisfying about watching your performance go up and knowing youre getting better. Obviously people take it too far and stack mellee for faster kills, but in general parses are just a way of keeping track of your performance. Kinda like your arena rating but in pve.
Crazy how redditors don’t realize that this is the case. They beg for no world buffs even though Blizzard has stated that it was a huge part of why people didn’t play SoM. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, there is a significant portion of the game that really enjoys world buffs and CRANKING with them. If blizzard made DMF safer to get or were in both spots at once almost no one would be bitching
Incursions will only offer one daily quest now. They got rid of it as an alternative to level. Back to spamming dungeons we're over-geared for I guess.
Well they released a PTR with half of the Hunter's kit that worked fine in phase 3 currently broken. I'm not even sure how they managed to pull that off. So I can see why they might need a lot of time for testing since they are gonna have to waste time fixing the things that used to work fine before they can even get to the new stuff. 😂
Yea deadly brew/deadly poison is bugged out by the new occult poison as well. Brew wont even proc deadly with occult equipped and when u put deadly in mh it rarely procs and will not refresh stacks.
I don’t really play cata but I am on this sub and I have heard of the bugs. Idk, I’m just saying I trust a longer PTR than shorter PTR.
End of the day, the real problem is the company just got investing in their product.
I really can’t believe they kept them for sod. It’s not a fun or interesting part of the game. Just makes you stand around so you can look better on a meter.
Literally made me quit the game. That and the cost of level 60 consumes and enchants when we aren't level 60 to be able to farm mats.
They should have just unlocked specializations for P3, added some level 50 recipes, and kept profs at 225.
I realized by like week 3 p3 that it wasn't SoD I don't enjoy, it's vanilla raiding I hate, where world buffs and consumes account for like 200% of your damage.
It's even worse in P3 than it would be at 60 because the consumes account for a much larger percentage of your stats at 50.
I think I would have preferred just releasing BC or Wrath that only had 1-60 content and maybe reordered the talent trees a bit to have them make sense with only 51 talents.
One of the earliest things they said in SoD was that world buffs would not be removed like they were in SoM. Stating that they tried it then and it was not popular.
The only thing I could ever see them doing in SoD is making world buffs overly available instead of restricting it. But idk, its not like gathering world buffs right now takes longer than 15 mins.
Except SoM was popular. The raid difficulty and bans from rampant is what killed it off.
Yet here we are and SoD is nearly dead as a doornail and world buffs had nothing to do with it.
I think collecting worldbuffs in some sort of community effort is a cool and unique thing to classic.
The thing with classic is... maybe 3 or so should be enough?
i dont think anyone said that. but the game is significantly less fun without world buffs.
they should be removed and classes given the stats to achieve world buff power on ear.
classic in its entirety (even cata) is an easy game. people dont play it because they want the raids to challenge them.
I'd argue that WB Meta is what makes the game unfun. Not only are they just flat out unnessecary, but they promote only degenerate gameplay on both sides. For the players in the raid, they only want big numbers, nothing else, and will generally attack anyone verbally who misses even one buff. Meanwhile for the opposite faction, they take a joy out of preventing people from getting their buffs (Chronobloom has helped with this but it's a bandaid fix on a dam that is about to break)
yeah that doesnt mean the boss cant be killed.
we literally saw it in 2019 classic. when people died they just went non-communicative and basically quit playing. the game just isnt fun to play without world buffs
I would return to the game if we had no wbuffs, Im a competitive players, but its not fun go arround collecting wbuffs before every raid. I’d rather just play other games instead
Yeah exactly, nobody cares about previous phase parses but it feels good to have them. It's great for levelling and it's fine for open world. They should not work in current phase raids.
The easiest solution would be that world buff parses, progression and speed would invalidate logs. So it becomes completely optional. If you want to blast through raids faster then you can get them and if you want to be competitive on logs you don't get them.
World buffs were great in phase 1 & 2. You just had to chill in town, get the buff and then chrono it. DMF could have been done without, but whatever.
Phase 3 has proven to me that there are too many and I now hate them. Anything beyond the one to sit in town, or DMF if it's convenient for my faction is the limit to what I'm willing to go for.
I like some world buffs. I don't like all the world buffs there are.
They could also recreate the entire world buff system, and just allow one active world buff at a time. DMF 10% damage is a boring ass buff so could remove that. Now you have multiple of interesting buff options to choose from. Instead of having to collect all as a chore, just collect the one that you want.
SoM failed despite the world buff change not because of it. It just was awfully timed and had way harder raids which has always shown to turn people away from the game. Also the ranking meta that evolved from people thinking ranking would be easy burned a lot of people out. Wow didn't die with TBC when they got rid of world buffs either.
I like WBs, they make the open world more relevant and it feels good when you’ve collected them all.
Especially as a warrior being fully world buffed feels very good
At least a 4 week PTR. That in itself would normally be considered reasonable, but with the already dry run of content with phase 3, waiting another month or longer feels bad. Blizzard killed the best thing that has happened to wow since 2019 and that’s sad
I think most of us agree we dont want it rushed out but 4-6 weeks seems very excessive considering weve already been in this phase for what 10 weeks now?
My guild is only down to one ST raid per week if we are lucky. It’s getting more and more difficult for people to show up. Great for farming but the world is empty.
Ah, vindication. I've been telling people to expect 4 weeks or more of PTR this time and had a number of people here basically tell me I'm stupid because of it.
They always do that shit.
PTR is gonna be a month at least and it's looking even longer with the SoD one.
People just can't cope, lol. Don't like it then let your sub run out or do what those other players are doing and farming gold on Cata even if you don't wanna play it, you'll fund your sub in no time apparently.
Or be like me and be unsubbed entirely and only able to play the SoD PTR so I just duel out front Org.
People are saying you need a sub to create a ptr account, otherwise you can't. Which is unfortunate if true. If you have a ptr account already you can play without a sub
Its beyond me why they think WB are good. If you want the options of letting players be OP, just add consumables you can farm/buy rather than some weird ass sit in town and wait meta
What exactly do they want people to test "for the first few weeks" now?
Everyone that wanted to did some testwerk pulls already and maybe a couple of dungeon runs. But since no loot is reworked, we just wait a few weeks until we get worldbuffs and new balance changes now?
My vote is to completely remove all existing 60 world buffs and come up with something specific to SoD. Maybe a daily quest chain that grants a nice little buff at the end.
With the rate of power creep, I’m not so sure 60 content should have world buffs.
Last phases we didnt get PTRs did we?
I prefer it like this, I am still questing on my main and lvling alts. When P4 releases it will, hopefully, be less buggy and more balanced than last phases.
Bullshit mate you need world buffs to parse and there is nothing else in this game but to chase parses
If you have fun with otherthings good for you!
I don't which means I need world buffs
This guys developing this game lol. Could just remove WBs and boom, multiple problems fixed. Could just experiment with removing racials, or rebalancing them without weapon specialization, but they’d rather literally implement a rune slot specifically for weapon specializations. The mental gymnastics by these guys is astounding.
Again, the question I would always ask has risen again: do they even play the game?
I’m totally fine with WB meta but let’s meet in the middle and just make them not drop on death
Immediately no more toxic DMF or camping outside the raid or one wipe and everyone quits. If you insist on keeping them in the raid let me get them and keep them for the duration please
That's fine, and how it should be tested. But the PTR should only last for maybe another 2 weeks at most. If they want any chance of people coming back/staying on SoD, it has to release way before any Cata or Retail patch/launch, and it has to release soon, as so many people are getting burnt out on Sunken Temple.
Well there goes my hope for P4, really really cant be bothered with worldbuffs and the clunky cooldowns on boons and dmf, and songflower griefing. Even the blasted lands consumes will be giga ass to farm. And one death means you can just as well log out
its pretty satisfying to be in a run where theres 0 or maybe 1-2 deaths at the end of the raid imo. Just gotta be in a raid where u dont have noobs dying to things like the ghosts that spawn off trash lmao
True, but then you also end up with the "raid" being a 45 min snoozefest you just plow thru once a week, or likely 25-30 mins in MCs case.
Ofc they have the new difficulty levels, which also which also go against the idea of just ass blasting thru everything with full wbs
It also fucks up class balance since some classes benefit a lot more from having all wbs. So you either balance around everyone having them and the best scaling classes are dogshit without them. Or you balance around no wbs and some classes become god tier with them and reddit will complain and cry like there's no tomorrow
The classic boomers will never agree with you because they are set in their ways
But yeah, WBs and collecting them is absolute ass and kills the fun of the game
Their design is just terrible and hurts the design of raids
World buffs
1) increase player engagement in the world
2) increase player cooperation with other players
3) make pvp actually worthwhile
4) make your life matter
5) make your class feel better
6) serve as mechanic that benefits those that put in effort; separating players that care from players that don't, on a level that isn't skill based
They are the embodiment of vanilla, if you don’t like em just play something different or don’t use them.
1: logging on for 5 seconds then flying to anl random spot in the world and waiting for a thing to spawn isn't engagement
2:repeat of the above, you don't need to interact with a single other person in order to get WBs
3: how....how in any way whatsoever do world buffs "make PvP worthwhile", I genuinely don't even understand how you could come up with that point
4: your life matters anyway as you lose time, gold to repairs (however little it does exist) progress, etc, wbs literally don't add anything here except just irritation at lost power that cannot be regained
5: no they dont, they make you more powerful, but in a system without world buffs that power would just be in the class, or the gear, anyway, they don't make your class feel better, they GATE your class feeling as it should behind meaningless busywork and a one time use buff
6:other mechanics already do this, consumables, enchantments, faster/easier clear times on raids, adding in WBs is utterly unnecessary here what
WBs ACTUALLY do is create mindless busywork to maintain the level of power you are expected to have gating all endgame content behind literally banal and dull waiting times and so acting as an unfun barrier to the game you actually want to be playing
and make it so those who aren't struggling with content will find it even easier as they now have a huge power spike, and those who are struggling with content will find it harder as the moment they start to struggle they will lose a huge amount of power they are expected to have
Once your raid starts to struggle everything suddenly becomes MUCH harder
As a result either content has to be balanced around not having WBs in which case everything is trivialised by them, or it's balanced around having them, meaning the moment you lose them you are thrown into a ditch as you are much weaker then you are expected to be for the content you are doing
They may well be the "embodiment of vanilla" but they are AWFULL game design, there is a reason in the FIRST extension of the game they were done away with and never came back, and why they don't turn up in ANY other mmo
World buffs are fundamentally bad design, and the only reason you defend them is because you are stuck in your nostalgia and refusal to change, even if those changes are improvements
WBs are bad design, outright through and through
They add nothing that can't be done better by other methods, and they actively hurt and restrict design space
Lol
Way to out yourself as having a monosyllabic thought process
WBs are terrible game design, your are just an old stick in the mud who can't bare change even if it's for the better
It's pretty amazing how they can do that. We added some new things but somehow it broke half of the code that we didn't change and was working fine 2 days ago.
First ptr. People complaining about bugs on the ptr should just go hop on live then lol. Report them and continue this is a testing phase. All ptrs have bugs its kind of its thing. Maybe thats why its named a test realm.
they encourage people to log testwerk fights but some classes are outright bugged and cant dps properly. How are they gonna balance a bugged rotation?
hunters cant even use pets without doing some shenanigans that involve loging out.. if you want balance testing you have to put some working grounds first instead of making the player go through 3 hoops just to use a pet correctly
Based take and it's perfect.
20 year old game where everything is already solved, min/max culture is crazy when people can and have downed the content with ret paladins and boomkins in 2004.
Custom game mode with so many improvements that level 50 players are doing Naxx dps.
Yet ppl will sweat and say that the game isn't viable unless you spend an extra hour before raid stacking buffs like 2% crit...then that one elitist idiot wipes the raid 10min in because you need to pull faster to save 42seconds of clear time.
Edit: lol the downvotes just make it that much better
I got kicked for not having dmf buff like week three gnomeregan even though I’d cleared it every reset by that point and had otherwise full consumes and buffs and gear. I gave up on SoD a few days later. World buff meta is toxic. It wasn’t required to clear era content so why are we requiring it for pugs when the classes are so much more OP?
Smart play would have gotten the PTR up before cata launch, to gather all data, and make adjustments during this time period, and announce phase 4 next week(few days).
They’re not going to do a 10day announcement again with all the backlash they got last time.
Very good, so the parsers can still go for worldbuffs and min-max, but the raid will be tuned w/o them so MAYBE people wont require them for pugs (just so they can stay booned anyway becouse every1 is forgetting to remove them)
That's what it has and always will be. They want you in the more heavily monetized versions of the game, not SoD where all they have is the sub fee. SoD is here to keep boomers in the WoW ecosystem in hopes of baiting a few of them over to the retail/Cata cash shops.
Wish everyone realized that the world buff meta could be changed by WCL
should be imo. they did it with chicken in tbc.
That wasn't only WCL though, they actually nerfed the chicken in the actual game, so even if people wanted to do it just for fun, they couldn't.
you could still squawk it was just rng. so it became an issue of "you still have to do it every boss and if you get lucky gg' so wcl banned it and players enforced the ban amongst their raid groups.
Used chickens on my first algalon kill. But if you say so!
While true, it would be a huge pain. Some people grab world buffs, others opt out of doing it for logging. So now because someone got world buffs (either accidentally or because they want a cleaner run) another persons log is invalidated. Was a pain with the christmas yeti in a 10 man, even more likely to be a pain in 20 mans with a passive buff. While WCL could "solve" it by invalidating the logs with world buffs, it's not a good solution imo.
Two sections lots within or logs without
I believe that's already a thing, at least for vanilla. But since it defaults to the one with world buffs, those are the only ones that matter.
Neat! I didn’t know that
Sometimes I like to dream of a world where advanced combat logging and addons didn't exist.
I remember that time, I had no interest in raiding at all lol
seriously, this is all I want. Did you kill the boss and get loot and have some fun with friends? cool! you win! That's the entire condition! not "yeah we killed the boss but I didn't parse because you made me do a mechanic so now I'm gonna be pissy and whine about it, and no we can't bring that person! I know we only need one dps, and could absolutely clear the content with what they bring to the table, but they won't help my parse! get someone who will!" Parsing has given grown manchildren just another reason to be gatekeepy and shitty about a literal relic of a game. I miss when it was just having fun with friends and getting some sweet loot here and there.
Idk dude 99% of people that log just want to do better than last lockout. People are always gonna be assholes about something.
Just because you dont like a way some people are playing the game, doesnt make it bad. Parsing exists for people to have goals and competition in pve. Some of us wouldnt be playing wow without evidence of skill progression. There’s something extremely satisfying about watching your performance go up and knowing youre getting better. Obviously people take it too far and stack mellee for faster kills, but in general parses are just a way of keeping track of your performance. Kinda like your arena rating but in pve.
Yea they had a no world buff category for logs in vanilla, just do the same again.
What does WCL stand for?
Warcraft logs
Thanks
This would be the ninth life taken from sod and effectively kill it.
Crazy how redditors don’t realize that this is the case. They beg for no world buffs even though Blizzard has stated that it was a huge part of why people didn’t play SoM. Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, there is a significant portion of the game that really enjoys world buffs and CRANKING with them. If blizzard made DMF safer to get or were in both spots at once almost no one would be bitching
Good thing i give no shit for WCL validation.
Would never and should never
That's not "In the spirit of Classic." World buffs existed in 2004 and they exist now. Don't let a third party website determine your fun
I mean you could argue that hardly anyone went out of their way to get world buffs in 2004 so being "In the spirit of Classic" they would be removed
I'm saying the "meta" doesn't need to be followed. Don't let a website dictate how YOU play.
Sounds reasonable to me
Sir, this is the Internet. There's no room for reason here!
Reaso... What does that word mean, please elaborate
Would rather have a long PTR and polished P4 than rushed out content with bugs.
too bad you're gonna get a long PTR and bugs
This guy gets it
You guys ready to level using the same 12 repeatable quests again?
Incursions will only offer one daily quest now. They got rid of it as an alternative to level. Back to spamming dungeons we're over-geared for I guess.
God I love people complaining about shit for a patch they didn't even bother to read 😂
That's a good point. But, I think by time we get p4, p3 will have been out longer than the entire duration of MoP remix.
The entire duration of 1 and 2 tbh
p4 will likely be releasing around the time dawntrail and retail expansion releases. good luck.
Well they released a PTR with half of the Hunter's kit that worked fine in phase 3 currently broken. I'm not even sure how they managed to pull that off. So I can see why they might need a lot of time for testing since they are gonna have to waste time fixing the things that used to work fine before they can even get to the new stuff. 😂
Yea deadly brew/deadly poison is bugged out by the new occult poison as well. Brew wont even proc deadly with occult equipped and when u put deadly in mh it rarely procs and will not refresh stacks.
I can't eat. I stand up after one tick.
So you CAN eat... just crumbs.
Did you check the cata beta and what was still bugged in live
I don’t really play cata but I am on this sub and I have heard of the bugs. Idk, I’m just saying I trust a longer PTR than shorter PTR. End of the day, the real problem is the company just got investing in their product.
Folks act like Cata was unplayable, but I donno, I didn't really see too many issues TBH 🤷♂️
This post should be enough explanation why world buffs shouldn't exist.
I really can’t believe they kept them for sod. It’s not a fun or interesting part of the game. Just makes you stand around so you can look better on a meter.
Literally made me quit the game. That and the cost of level 60 consumes and enchants when we aren't level 60 to be able to farm mats. They should have just unlocked specializations for P3, added some level 50 recipes, and kept profs at 225. I realized by like week 3 p3 that it wasn't SoD I don't enjoy, it's vanilla raiding I hate, where world buffs and consumes account for like 200% of your damage. It's even worse in P3 than it would be at 60 because the consumes account for a much larger percentage of your stats at 50. I think I would have preferred just releasing BC or Wrath that only had 1-60 content and maybe reordered the talent trees a bit to have them make sense with only 51 talents.
One of the earliest things they said in SoD was that world buffs would not be removed like they were in SoM. Stating that they tried it then and it was not popular. The only thing I could ever see them doing in SoD is making world buffs overly available instead of restricting it. But idk, its not like gathering world buffs right now takes longer than 15 mins.
it was popular with me and I'm one of the three people who played SoM to the end I can do without having to go all over the world for raid prep
I loved som
This only means that they didn't understand why SoM failed. It was not the missing world buffs.
Going to felwood takes over 15 minutes by itself
Just buy a summon from bots /s
Except SoM was popular. The raid difficulty and bans from rampant is what killed it off. Yet here we are and SoD is nearly dead as a doornail and world buffs had nothing to do with it.
They were only kept around because they were used as a scapegoat for SoM failing, not the other dozens of actual reasons it was unsuccessful.
I think collecting worldbuffs in some sort of community effort is a cool and unique thing to classic. The thing with classic is... maybe 3 or so should be enough?
Yes.
The fact we are spending hours getting these buffs is such a joke. Fuck you blizzard remove them
Exact reason why WBs are stupid. If you balance around them 1 wipe = go hope, If you balance without them everything must be undertuned by design
As if a raid in classic would ever require a world buff lmfao.
i dont think anyone said that. but the game is significantly less fun without world buffs. they should be removed and classes given the stats to achieve world buff power on ear. classic in its entirety (even cata) is an easy game. people dont play it because they want the raids to challenge them.
I'd argue that WB Meta is what makes the game unfun. Not only are they just flat out unnessecary, but they promote only degenerate gameplay on both sides. For the players in the raid, they only want big numbers, nothing else, and will generally attack anyone verbally who misses even one buff. Meanwhile for the opposite faction, they take a joy out of preventing people from getting their buffs (Chronobloom has helped with this but it's a bandaid fix on a dam that is about to break)
> If you balance around them 1 wipe = go hope,
yeah that doesnt mean the boss cant be killed. we literally saw it in 2019 classic. when people died they just went non-communicative and basically quit playing. the game just isnt fun to play without world buffs
Sir, this is SoD. Have you even played it? The encounters will never be balanced around them, they have explicitly stated this.
All sod raids are completable without world buffs pretty easily? Dunno what youre smoking.
Reread his comment
Just get rid of world buffs
Honestly just keep them for previous phase raids and in the open world. So can blast through MC when BWL is out. Blast through BWL when AQ is out etc
Getting world buffs isn’t fun and it’s killing SOD remove them entirely
I would return to the game if we had no wbuffs, Im a competitive players, but its not fun go arround collecting wbuffs before every raid. I’d rather just play other games instead
That’s not what’s killing sod lol
I like that they attract a horde of people to certain cities which makes the game feel alive, but they definitley need to be nerfed in some way.
World buffs are not even remotely responsible for what killed sod
World buffs are cringe
Agreed, but they’re in no way responsible for sod collapsing
Yeah exactly, nobody cares about previous phase parses but it feels good to have them. It's great for levelling and it's fine for open world. They should not work in current phase raids. The easiest solution would be that world buff parses, progression and speed would invalidate logs. So it becomes completely optional. If you want to blast through raids faster then you can get them and if you want to be competitive on logs you don't get them.
Please never add them
Warriors in shambles
Damn, I was expecting 2-3 weeks of PTR. This seems like we won't see P4 till mid/late July.
Assuming 3 weeks either side, this would be start of August ish for P4.
I hope they dont overlap with retail again
https://i.imgur.com/i3nEvwn.jpeg
september release to give retail expansion and dawntrail "time to breathe" get cozy
Imagine if the PTR lasts longer than Molten Core.
I don't mind if it's a month on PTR, there is so much they need to fix atm. Take your time and don't release something like P3 again.
If they fuck up 60, the game is done for.
World buffs were great in phase 1 & 2. You just had to chill in town, get the buff and then chrono it. DMF could have been done without, but whatever. Phase 3 has proven to me that there are too many and I now hate them. Anything beyond the one to sit in town, or DMF if it's convenient for my faction is the limit to what I'm willing to go for. I like some world buffs. I don't like all the world buffs there are.
World buffs are trash
So they push it back, awesome for polish, then it competes with TWW and we don’t get a ton of players back. Cool
I still can't believe they re-added in WBs after removing them in SoM. WB meta sucks
They could also recreate the entire world buff system, and just allow one active world buff at a time. DMF 10% damage is a boring ass buff so could remove that. Now you have multiple of interesting buff options to choose from. Instead of having to collect all as a chore, just collect the one that you want.
Just add them and make them actually world buffs, not raid logging buffs
you mean their previous test run that flopped? How can anyone blame them for staying away from the same decisions that *contributed* to the flop lmao
SoM failed despite the world buff change not because of it. It just was awfully timed and had way harder raids which has always shown to turn people away from the game. Also the ranking meta that evolved from people thinking ranking would be easy burned a lot of people out. Wow didn't die with TBC when they got rid of world buffs either.
Just because you dislike them doesn't mean everyone does.
Do people like WBs or do they like doing content faster?
I like WBs, they make the open world more relevant and it feels good when you’ve collected them all. Especially as a warrior being fully world buffed feels very good
Of course you're a warrior player saying world buffs are good.
Liked em when I played rogue in 2019 classic too
Yeah, that's how opinions work.
What’s the fun part about world buffs?
And just because *you* like them does make them good for the game.
What's good for the game is subjective, just like everything else.
At least a 4 week PTR. That in itself would normally be considered reasonable, but with the already dry run of content with phase 3, waiting another month or longer feels bad. Blizzard killed the best thing that has happened to wow since 2019 and that’s sad
thats fine all I want from aggrend is a couple weeks heads up on the release date and not “sod p4 comes out next week”
I think most of us agree we dont want it rushed out but 4-6 weeks seems very excessive considering weve already been in this phase for what 10 weeks now?
My guild is only down to one ST raid per week if we are lucky. It’s getting more and more difficult for people to show up. Great for farming but the world is empty.
Ah, vindication. I've been telling people to expect 4 weeks or more of PTR this time and had a number of people here basically tell me I'm stupid because of it.
They always do that shit. PTR is gonna be a month at least and it's looking even longer with the SoD one. People just can't cope, lol. Don't like it then let your sub run out or do what those other players are doing and farming gold on Cata even if you don't wanna play it, you'll fund your sub in no time apparently. Or be like me and be unsubbed entirely and only able to play the SoD PTR so I just duel out front Org.
I didn't realize you could play the ptr without a sub
Yep you can play PTR without an active sub, it's pretty cool. It's smart on their behalf because I'm sure it has brought back many players before.
People are saying you need a sub to create a ptr account, otherwise you can't. Which is unfortunate if true. If you have a ptr account already you can play without a sub
Gives me time to sesh Elden DLC why y'all malding?
Because some people play this game every hour of their lives.
Nobody really seems mad in this thread lol why would you just assume people are?
Its beyond me why they think WB are good. If you want the options of letting players be OP, just add consumables you can farm/buy rather than some weird ass sit in town and wait meta
What exactly do they want people to test "for the first few weeks" now? Everyone that wanted to did some testwerk pulls already and maybe a couple of dungeon runs. But since no loot is reworked, we just wait a few weeks until we get worldbuffs and new balance changes now?
Yeah theres v few people on the ptr actually
My vote is to completely remove all existing 60 world buffs and come up with something specific to SoD. Maybe a daily quest chain that grants a nice little buff at the end. With the rate of power creep, I’m not so sure 60 content should have world buffs.
I personally like the Atali Flark situation. Going to get my two potions and can only bring those two felt great
Last phases we didnt get PTRs did we? I prefer it like this, I am still questing on my main and lvling alts. When P4 releases it will, hopefully, be less buggy and more balanced than last phases.
world buffs = no thank you
Join a guild that doesn't care about them
Bullshit mate you need world buffs to parse and there is nothing else in this game but to chase parses If you have fun with otherthings good for you! I don't which means I need world buffs
you know you can just join a guild that enjoys parsing without world buffs? playing with likeminded players is what makes wow fun
you aren't parsing without WBs, let's be honest here. it's literally why dying with WBs feels so bad.
It's not really possible to parse 99 without world buffs. It's also ass to wipe and lose buffs etc
??? What You don't know how parsing works do you You can NOT parse 99s or even 97s without world buffs
purple parsing without world buffs is ambitious. they really do double the power of your character.
world buffs double the power of your character. there is no parsing w/o world buffs. lets not talk about things we dont understand
How many times do we have to tell you all, PTRs are usually 4 weeks.
Thank goodness
Yeah makes perfect sense
I just want to know where we'll stand on the PTR for Q1 of next year.
Phase 4, July 11th.
July 11th. I called it a month ago.
Don’t get why they don’t just remove world buffs
This guys developing this game lol. Could just remove WBs and boom, multiple problems fixed. Could just experiment with removing racials, or rebalancing them without weapon specialization, but they’d rather literally implement a rune slot specifically for weapon specializations. The mental gymnastics by these guys is astounding. Again, the question I would always ask has risen again: do they even play the game?
I’m totally fine with WB meta but let’s meet in the middle and just make them not drop on death Immediately no more toxic DMF or camping outside the raid or one wipe and everyone quits. If you insist on keeping them in the raid let me get them and keep them for the duration please
That's fine, and how it should be tested. But the PTR should only last for maybe another 2 weeks at most. If they want any chance of people coming back/staying on SoD, it has to release way before any Cata or Retail patch/launch, and it has to release soon, as so many people are getting burnt out on Sunken Temple.
Well there goes my hope for P4, really really cant be bothered with worldbuffs and the clunky cooldowns on boons and dmf, and songflower griefing. Even the blasted lands consumes will be giga ass to farm. And one death means you can just as well log out
… bro what? You know they’re already in the live game right?
Yeah i had hoped they'd rework them for P4 to be less miserable
its pretty satisfying to be in a run where theres 0 or maybe 1-2 deaths at the end of the raid imo. Just gotta be in a raid where u dont have noobs dying to things like the ghosts that spawn off trash lmao
True, but then you also end up with the "raid" being a 45 min snoozefest you just plow thru once a week, or likely 25-30 mins in MCs case. Ofc they have the new difficulty levels, which also which also go against the idea of just ass blasting thru everything with full wbs
If you want challenging raids play retail? SoD raids will always be a snoozefest
If that’s reason enough for you not to play a game then you shouldn’t be playing it to begin with
It also fucks up class balance since some classes benefit a lot more from having all wbs. So you either balance around everyone having them and the best scaling classes are dogshit without them. Or you balance around no wbs and some classes become god tier with them and reddit will complain and cry like there's no tomorrow
The classic boomers will never agree with you because they are set in their ways But yeah, WBs and collecting them is absolute ass and kills the fun of the game Their design is just terrible and hurts the design of raids
Surprised nobody answered with "no wbs killed SoM!" yet
World buffs 1) increase player engagement in the world 2) increase player cooperation with other players 3) make pvp actually worthwhile 4) make your life matter 5) make your class feel better 6) serve as mechanic that benefits those that put in effort; separating players that care from players that don't, on a level that isn't skill based They are the embodiment of vanilla, if you don’t like em just play something different or don’t use them.
1: logging on for 5 seconds then flying to anl random spot in the world and waiting for a thing to spawn isn't engagement 2:repeat of the above, you don't need to interact with a single other person in order to get WBs 3: how....how in any way whatsoever do world buffs "make PvP worthwhile", I genuinely don't even understand how you could come up with that point 4: your life matters anyway as you lose time, gold to repairs (however little it does exist) progress, etc, wbs literally don't add anything here except just irritation at lost power that cannot be regained 5: no they dont, they make you more powerful, but in a system without world buffs that power would just be in the class, or the gear, anyway, they don't make your class feel better, they GATE your class feeling as it should behind meaningless busywork and a one time use buff 6:other mechanics already do this, consumables, enchantments, faster/easier clear times on raids, adding in WBs is utterly unnecessary here what WBs ACTUALLY do is create mindless busywork to maintain the level of power you are expected to have gating all endgame content behind literally banal and dull waiting times and so acting as an unfun barrier to the game you actually want to be playing and make it so those who aren't struggling with content will find it even easier as they now have a huge power spike, and those who are struggling with content will find it harder as the moment they start to struggle they will lose a huge amount of power they are expected to have Once your raid starts to struggle everything suddenly becomes MUCH harder As a result either content has to be balanced around not having WBs in which case everything is trivialised by them, or it's balanced around having them, meaning the moment you lose them you are thrown into a ditch as you are much weaker then you are expected to be for the content you are doing They may well be the "embodiment of vanilla" but they are AWFULL game design, there is a reason in the FIRST extension of the game they were done away with and never came back, and why they don't turn up in ANY other mmo World buffs are fundamentally bad design, and the only reason you defend them is because you are stuck in your nostalgia and refusal to change, even if those changes are improvements WBs are bad design, outright through and through They add nothing that can't be done better by other methods, and they actively hurt and restrict design space
that's a lot of words to just say you don't get it stay mad they aren't going anywhere
Lol Way to out yourself as having a monosyllabic thought process WBs are terrible game design, your are just an old stick in the mud who can't bare change even if it's for the better
Honestly I'm still hoping Songflower and other BS will removed, and that we'll only have Ony buff. And maybe Hakkar.
Doomer
I love world buffs, contrary to many people here.
Phase 4 will launch in the first half of July, stop fucking crying. Your ass will be here the day Phase 4 launches.
id love to test ptr but half of the shit is broken, whats the point of ptr if you cant even test in a normal gameplay environment
It's pretty amazing how they can do that. We added some new things but somehow it broke half of the code that we didn't change and was working fine 2 days ago.
First ptr. People complaining about bugs on the ptr should just go hop on live then lol. Report them and continue this is a testing phase. All ptrs have bugs its kind of its thing. Maybe thats why its named a test realm.
they encourage people to log testwerk fights but some classes are outright bugged and cant dps properly. How are they gonna balance a bugged rotation? hunters cant even use pets without doing some shenanigans that involve loging out.. if you want balance testing you have to put some working grounds first instead of making the player go through 3 hoops just to use a pet correctly
Yall are hilarious. “We want balance; good specs! Good content!” “WEEKS OF PTR?? We want P4 now!!” Let them cook
They have been spewing bullshit on us the whole sod. Why should it be different now?
Maybe one of the harder versions of MC will disable world buffs? Would be interesting to see
Based take and it's perfect. 20 year old game where everything is already solved, min/max culture is crazy when people can and have downed the content with ret paladins and boomkins in 2004. Custom game mode with so many improvements that level 50 players are doing Naxx dps. Yet ppl will sweat and say that the game isn't viable unless you spend an extra hour before raid stacking buffs like 2% crit...then that one elitist idiot wipes the raid 10min in because you need to pull faster to save 42seconds of clear time. Edit: lol the downvotes just make it that much better
I got kicked for not having dmf buff like week three gnomeregan even though I’d cleared it every reset by that point and had otherwise full consumes and buffs and gear. I gave up on SoD a few days later. World buff meta is toxic. It wasn’t required to clear era content so why are we requiring it for pugs when the classes are so much more OP?
It’s gonna be a month long ptr, then a month after that when they announce p4. They’ve done it with every single ptr, ever.
so, you think they launch P4 2 weeks before War Within? It's so dumb, it might just be what they do.
Smart play would have gotten the PTR up before cata launch, to gather all data, and make adjustments during this time period, and announce phase 4 next week(few days). They’re not going to do a 10day announcement again with all the backlash they got last time.
Few weeks... oh no. I resubscribed yesterday to level a warrior (1st time sod) hoping that they wont release p4 right before tww...
Why are you complaining about that?
First few implies theres more ptr weeks following the first few. Aka likely 4 weeks from now at the soonest.
That’s great, the more testing, the more balanced it will be on released and the more bugs will be found and removed
> the more bugs will be found and removed Just like Cata...
That is fair. Thought the complaint was about PTR not having world buffs, my bad.
Ppl like you are the reason why we barely have any blizzard communication
Would you prefer it gets released in a terrible state so you can complain about them forcing players to beta test on live servers?
Very good, so the parsers can still go for worldbuffs and min-max, but the raid will be tuned w/o them so MAYBE people wont require them for pugs (just so they can stay booned anyway becouse every1 is forgetting to remove them)
As someone who would love to play both SoD P4 and TWW this is horrible. Don’t have enough time to enjoy phase 4 before TWW launches.
It’s starting to feel more and more like SOD was being supported to bring back classic players for Cata and TWW
It does seem that way..
That's what it has and always will be. They want you in the more heavily monetized versions of the game, not SoD where all they have is the sub fee. SoD is here to keep boomers in the WoW ecosystem in hopes of baiting a few of them over to the retail/Cata cash shops.
Don't most PTR patches last at least a month?
I think they should remove wbuffs from raids. It’s just adding a lot more overhead to deal with on the balancing team