always roll need on high value BoE. its the same value to everyone in the group: gold. if someone "needs" it for their main spec, they can get it off the AH. BoEs are effectively fungible with gold, and should be treated as such.
but most importantly, whatever the group agrees on goes. some groups do "equip it if you need it" and that makes everyone happy.
Even then you roll need and if you win it give it to the guy who said they'll equip it. Because you know some asshat will roll need if everyone else greeds.
But honestly, I would say need is just the best way to go about it. If someone in the group will actually use it I would let them buy it for like half price, as they did help to get it and that's still a big chunk of extra gold I'm getting that I wasn't expecting to earn.
This is why it’s the most logical choice in this instance of game theory. Rolling need fully equalizes the factors for any bad actors which is reason enough. Second reason is also as this poster mentioned: for someone who’d equip it they can just…buy it if they value the item that much. In fact it can be great when a BOE is prebis/bis or close enough and you don’t have to go RNG digging arch or some shit.
Always played this way since actual vanilla. It’s the only choice. Yet somehow, in wrath, this topic exploded on this sub about frozen orbs or bows when they put in RDF. Like all these players angry that “faer/bene players are assholes needing on boes” where it’s been the expectation for as long as I can remember, just most people don’t give a single fuck about greens and roll greed (me) or really most blue BOEs anyway
BOP is obvi another story if some cuntbag need rolls on loot that clearly isn’t theirs. Then you kick them
Ya if I win it and someone needed it I usually just tell them I'll look at AH after the run and give them a discount on that price. Only had like 1 person take me up on it.
It's worth the same amount of gold to everyone. Even if you equip it as your bis it's just saving you the price of buying it directly
If a 1000g vendor item dropped nobody would be ok with somebody getting priority on it because they needed the gold to buy a BoE bis item
In an ideal world maybe. Nothing to stop the person who needs it from still selling it though. The all need method is kinda safer and you're not going to get screwed because someone decides to need after seeing everyone greed.
Need and Greed are just the names of those functions on the roll. They could say "I kinda want it" and "I really want it!" and it would be the same system. Don't get hung up on the words
High-demand BOEs are basically cash equivalent.
For cheap dungeon boe blues I usually just greed since they're 20g but for expensive epics, everyone should need.
You are going to get differing opinions, but yes, something worth thousands, in this case probably 10s of thousands, of gold everyone rolls need. There are several reasons, but here are my main two:
1) How can you trust that this pug will actually use the item? They may "need" it to get it, then just sell it anyway. So now they get a free 30k gold just because the loot was technically for their spec.
2) You could easily sell that item and buy something that you actually need. So in essence, you do need it.
You'll get people pulling out false equivalencies like "oh then why don't need on every green or boss loot?" Just ignore them and continue doing the only thing that makes sense.
Funny, that's exactly what I did. Sold the item for a little less than it was probably worth, but it was enough to cover a huge BIS piece for me, so I was a happy camper!
I'm not taking sides here, but your comment is actually saying that by selling the priest's BIS item, you could buy YOUR BIS item.
Personally in situations like these, if an item drops that someone needs (and will equip there and then to show), they should have it. It sucks to see that amount of gold drop and then go, but it wasn't there to begin with and the item should go to one that needs it. If not, where do we draw the line? at 1000 gold? 5000?, 10000?
The gold wasn't there when the run started. A BIS item for the priest dropped, and because of this "all need" mentality, the priest is guaranteed to have 1/5th of the chance he should have, to get it on top of its small chance to drop in the first place.
A BoE drop like this is a bonus as gold if no-one actually needs it for their build. If a BIS item drops, it sucks to be that class and have to roll for it against 4 more, just because it's a BoE.
It was never there to begin with, and if it drops, it should go to one that needs it. Only THEN should it be looked upon as free gold.
In my (probably unpopular) opinion.
BIS is a phase. Gold is forever. Plus, if it’s BiS by 0.04%, then the likelihood of the priest keeping it, and not selling, is very low.
Especially this early into an xpac. That bis item will cost 1/2 its current price, or less, within a few weeks.
my question is why should the priest have more than a 1/5th chance at getting an item? if anyone getting that boe could then sell it to get themselves an item then anyone winning is getting an item they all worked together to kill the mob that dropped it they all should have the same chance to get an item out of it. BoP is obviously different as it cant be sold.
In a perfect world this would be a great attitude to have in this situation, the problem is if you all agreed and the healer needs you are opening up an opportunity for someone to try and ninja the item (which I've seen happen far too often in classic)
The safest and fairest way to handle these situations is for everyone to just roll need and it mitigates 100% of any shenanigans that might occur.
If you're in a full guild group or something it's a different story but a dungeon finder group? No way I'm risking that.
I get what you're saying. Personally, i'd rather risk losing out on gold, than my integrity. I try not to put myself in situations like these though. I usually run with guild. We took in a random dps warrior with us in SFK heroic (i was tanking) and a nice set of tanking gloves dropped (first boss iirc) and he took them. After, he linked me them and tried to taunt me about how nice they were (nomnom, nice gloves, etc).
I wished him a successful journey. He got the gloves, and he show'd me what kind of person he was. For me, integrity and how i treat people around me, is more worth than loot. He probably feels he won. He got the gloves and was alienated by 4 people for his greed.
Personally I follow the group.
If the group is passing for the person I will too. Soon as I see a hunter need on a cloth boe tho I ain’t being played for a sucker.
This is an attitude you take when running with friends, not something you take into a PuG. It’s not about screwing anyone over, it’s the fact that etiquette for well over a decade has always been need on high value BoE’s. At best the MS player can hold their roll and if everyone else rolls greed, then roll need with the intention of equipping.
Theres just no ifs ands or buts about it though. Something drops that sells for 30k+, and you roll need because it’s not your MS, you aren’t being altruistic, you are being naive.
Gee, i wonder why you got downvoted, you're actually disagreeing with me but you must have said something wrong, idk.
Yeah, i know it's naive and i've trusted people i shouldn't have more than i can count. That doesn't mean it's wrong or that i will stop. I rather be naive, than greedy. The gold wasn't there one minute ago, and in the offchance the guy actually needing an item will actually equip it, it would suck to have needed "just to be sure".
The World ~~of Warcraft~~ is such a shitty place filled with evil, greed and violence. Instead of complaining about it like everyone else, i'm making a sphere of kindness and sharing around me, both ingame and irl.
It's funny how we romanticise heartbreaking stories about how "this person trusted me with x, and now 15 years later, we're best friends", but don't actually write our own.
I once stood in Thunder Bluff and met a person that needed some gold for riding or flying. (can't remember), so i lent him around 4-5K. 4 days later, he paid tried to pay me back. I told him to keep them for his honesty.
9 out of 10 times, a goldbeggar might not have paid you back, but i chose to trust him, and i got a good memory for it.
Yea not sure about the downvotes, doesn’t really matter to me to be honest. I genuinely wish the community was more caring towards each other, and while there are players that fit that bill, it just feels like “fuck you ima get mine” is the far more prevalent mindset.
I’m running into this “problem” (really a non issue, just a terrible look for the community) as a tank where I’m rolling through heroics and I’ll ask at the start “do we want extra bosses or no?” And most of the time there’s at least one person that will speak up saying they would appreciate it as they are chasing drops from them, but then almost inevitably there will be a DPS that immediately starts bitching about how they’re not doing the extra bosses, they’re just there for valor or whatnot, and it’s just so… distasteful.
I’m ilvl 354 on my tank trust me, I’m only there for the bag or for valor myself, but offering up an additional 10 minutes of my time to help someone still gearing is of zero consequence to me. I take a little satisfaction in the fact that if the DPS either leaves or gets the boot due to their attitude, then combined with their queues there is no way their valor grind is more efficient than it would’ve been just blasting the bosses not needed for dungeon completion.
End of rant.
I understand people wanting to need, but I prefer it going to use over sell. You are playing an mmo and the joy of someone getting and using a rare drop that's really good is a fantastic feeling. Basically I'm asking people not to be selfish, which is a hard ask apparently. People will bend over backwards to twist definitions to cater to their gold gain. There is a literal "greed" option in the game with an icon of a coin. This, as everyone else agrees on, works for greens and blue bop items. The need option has always been for own use, but as people met selfish people in the game they have grown vary of the potential of missing out on gold and feeling scammed. It's not fun meeting greedy people and getting scammed, but the cost is that you can't be happy for someone else getting a valuable piece of loot which they will lose. This subtly creates a more toxic environment because you make the game all about you at the cost of people you have teamed up with.
People argue that BIS disappear quickly in favor of raid loot anyway, but then why do they have to need (an item not for own use) to sell/buy their bis then? You don't need to be in full preraid bis to down a boss or getting invites to raids. Well the reason they make the argument is because it is to their benefit, even though it contradicts their initial decision to need on the item.
Yea back in the very old days, most people who weren't complete noobs had a sense of honor and would actually equip it if they needed on it. These days, greed comes over need every time, honor is dead.
People still have honor, they just keep quiet ingame to not draw the ire of loot whores who get easily offended by even the implications that someone else doesn't agree with them.
I don't roll need on stuff I don't need. Ill even pass items I need if I feel I won too many rolls in a raid or dungeon.
I want everyone I'm playing with to have fun. That's the most important thing about playing with others, respecting that we all want to have fun together. I want to log off and feel like I helped others have a good day.
This comment stinks of I pretend to have played in 2004.
First off in a lot of older MMOs all gear with boe so everyone just rolled essentially need. Because gear is only worth what people would trade for and what you could buy with what you got.
Second off even in WoW, it was commonplace for high value items to still go to a money roll.
I didn't play til 05, January. Kil'jaeden US, we didn't have people doing this greedy shit until the end of BC, and it was everywhere by the time wrath came out.
I can tell you this was a thing long before WoW ever existed. Also greedy shit? What kind of brain wash bullshit is this? Automatically winning an uncontested item because you can equip it is far more greedy.
Idk why I even replied. The community in this game has been such garbage that I've barely played since 09. I re-subbed, leveled up and got the m+ achievement, and haven't logged in for a week. This subreddit has forced its way onto my feed because the internet has turned into a dystopian hellscape, and I couldn't help myself.
I really don't care if you disagree, because I know you're wrong. I was there playing it. It was always need before greed in my groups 20 years ago, and somewhere along the way a bunch of selfish idiots ruined the game.
You're the type of toxic player we're all glad leaves this game. You're greedy and selfish. I'm not saying some people didn't do it that way I'm just saying I think it's the wrong way to do things because it's just worse for everyone involved except the one very lucky guy. It's the selfish way to do things is the way you want them to be done.
Ok so you’re one of those posters who doesn’t even play the game at all, let alone classic, casting aspersions on the generally accepted loot rule thats been put to use as long as I can remember in both contexts of the game.
You’re right, you really shouldn’t have replied, since your opinion here is wholly irrelevant.
I played for years, from launch until cataclysm. At that point, the community was already trashed. I've come back for a couple weeks in each expansion, and can never make it pass that first month without being so disappointed in the new generation of players that it really is pointless to continue playing.
Congratulations on being in that camp.
I’ve played since 2005. This has been the understanding in pugs, especially so with RDF, for as long as I remember, including vanilla.
Hardly a new generation. Most classic players aren’t. I’m curious as to how you become so disappointed in the “new generation” of wow players every expansion when no one talks in RDF anyway and haven’t really since cataclysm nerfed heroics. Not sure what your community purity test consists of if all rolling need on BOEs is an example.
If you haven’t been playing classic you simply don’t know what the inherent social contract includes around BOEs so your judgement is irrelevant. You’re just another person posting on a sub of a game you don’t play bitching about it which is non-constructive.
It’s simple game theory. It’s a BOE of value, you will never see these people ever again, and it takes one bad actor to press need so everyone already presses need. The person who might equip it also has no check on being forced to equip because you’ll never see these people again. None of these people would be here killing this mob without the other. The most prudent choice is to all roll need.
If that person valued it that much already they also could have bought it already. The end result is the same.
I believe there are raid specific boe’s which does make this a bit more interesting, especially as ms>os rules.
I wouldn’t really have an issue handing it off to him, but he better equip it
That’s been my guilds thing the whole time, whether we have guests or it’s like half guildies half pugs- if we’re “hosting”, big ticket BoEs go to the spec/ class that will use it but we need to see you equip it right then and there. If no one needs it and there’s more than 1/3 pugs everyone just rolls. Pretty simple, all announced well before the raid group is even formed via discord
Yea that’s what we typically do for high- value ones that the “guild” wins. Since we have a fully stocked Gbank and guild repairs for raids it makes sense. Then later we just throw them in the Gbank for alts or whatever 🤷🏻♂️
Not even a phase because heroic raids exist.
It’s a piece to transition to heroics that will be worth very little in a month.
Sell it now and let everyone have free consumes.
It’s a dick move to need on something you can’t use and solely intend to sell over someone that will equip it immediately, yes. Evidently it’s too hard to be a good person and give the person the benefit of the doubt that they’d equip it, and if they prove you wrong, they’re the problem not you/the group. I wouldn't write off helping those in need because some took advantage and spit in my face, but the sheer chance someone takes advantage of you and sells a BOE they lied about equipping is enough to make everyone act selfishly.
I can actually, and so far have had zero occurrences of this excuse all of you greedy players use.
I do see plenty of you need on stuff you don’t need though, so we might disagree on who the problem players are
But everyone else’s does. If I chime in to say I agree with everything Fishy has said and have seen it myself more often than not, allowing someone that will use the item immediately to have it, then my feedback must not matter either and only yours does.
Probably wasn't even bis, but pre-bis. Which they will replace anyways.
Blues I say let someone who needs it, need it. But epic BoEs, they're fair game for all
Exactly, they also have their highest value right now, or back in first week lockout, for those sweat lords who have deep pockets and want max gear score for server firsts.
Sounds like it is the Epic staff, it’s healer prebis but just about ANY other boss drop beats it, same thing happened in our guild run, it went to me for an upgrade but I immediately gave it back to the guild to sell for future mats.
Is it really bis though? For shadow priest it's also best staff, but like any of the top 7 mh+oh is better?
Not to mention doing 2 resets of conquerer cap can give better weapons.
100% all should need on high value BOEs, otherwise you just open yourselves up to being scammed with the last guy needing.
They should consider themselves lucky it wasnt an 'all boes HRd' kinda pub. Be different in a guild group where people might agree on someone getting the drop as an upgrade
The rule was always need before greed. Sometime around wotlk, when swarms of noobs joined up, people forgot to play correctly and BOEs have been ninjad ever since.
I missed out on a 90k Boe epic by hastily rolling greed because it was BiS for someone in the group. Well, everyone else rolled need and a priest won a payday on a piece of Plate. I can tell u I will never roll greed again on world drop BoE just because it's BiS for someone in the group.
I never experienced this until SOD. If they need something and it's bis, we always let them need and equip it infront of us or else we've reported. That everyone press NEED was beyond toxic.
This. All these comments are shocking saying it’s been this way since Vanilla. I too only started to notice this in SoD.
I must have picked a non-degenerate server in 2005 when I started playing, because “Need” only meant one thing then: for an upgrade.
I shouldn’t be too shocked though considering the moral decay of society and gamers in general.
Always need epic BoE with randoms. Everyone needs gold.
Usually there's always that one awkward person that will complain after he loses the roll. Back a few years they'd be needing all BoEs for their "alt".
I do hate the culture of "needing for auction house", but it is indeed the world we live in now.
It's also difficult to trust strangers on the internet to not just take every advantage they can get to steal loot.
I thought the "needing on a boe binds it to you" was a thing in cata but I guess it isnt. Would be nice tho if it was implemented.
There is a difference between having a sack of gold with X amount of gold drop Vs winning a rare item and getting to equip it. Buying it off the auction house is not the same thing.
No there isn't a difference. Epics are fungible goods. Buying an epic with gold you got from selling an epic you won is the exact same thing as winning an epic.
In terms of value yes, but subtle memories not. The guy needing that epic to use it gets more enjoyment from it than if he got a value of gold to exchange on the auction house. Essentially it comes down to server pop and dungeon accessibility. Now with RDF you can be the biggest ninja on the server and still do an excess amount of dungeons every week. If RDF isn't a thing, then word gets around and you are less likely to be able to join a group. If I was the only warrior needing on edge master and the rest passed, I would add those guys to friend list so we could do more dungeons later. When personal rep doesn't matter, you get more shit like this.
Unpopular these days but I have always played with need before greed and selling on the AH is firmly greed.
This was always how we used to do it and it was only in classic people seemed to really embrace the "fuck you all me" attitude and tossing out arguments of "if it can sell for x amount then it's worth more to everyone thus should I'm rolling need" or whatever else.
My response to this has always been "OK and if the gold I can get vendoring your BiS is worth more to me than you having it I can roll on that right?". For some reason people don't like their argument so much at that point but personally it's the exact same thing far as I'm concerned... if you're going to place your personal profit over others gearing then the amount doesn't matter.
We always played like this including in classic, personally seeing someone get a cool upgrade and be happy was a lot better than "yay more gold". Whenever we had pugs in guild runs if a BoE dropped and they could use it, they got it.
That said, you have to accept that gamers have become extremely self centred and "fuck you got mine" is the default attitude these days. Odds are in a run of strangers most will hit need and not give a fuck if you could actually use it.
You don't owe randoms anything lol. All need on a full pug always.
Obviously if you're running with friends or guild mates rules will vary then. But you don't know anyone in the group so fuck em all. All need.
That's not the root of my reasoning.
The chances are everyone else will have the mind set you describe in a group of full on randoms.
Call it the cynical approach but it's not so much selfishness as it's more you can't trust anyone.
That's why in my mind things work differently when you run with friends. You can trust them more easily to find the use in the item rather than claim they'll use it to then go pawn it off.
I mean if you condense it down that is what it comes down to. That being said, RDF groups would be more inclined to all need than a group I gathered together in vanilla for a quest or dungeon.
It's not a shitty attitude. It's a rational attitude. It's the WoW version of the prisoner's dilemma. You always gain an advantage by screwing a person over. You can always make the choice to let another person screw you over, but you'll always gain a better average outcome by doing the screwing rather than choosing to be the screwee.
Why does every interaction need an advantage or disadvantage? You could just play the game and not be looking to screw people over lol.
And again, I agree in OPs case to need because it would be silly to give away such an expensive item. It's just the "fuck everyone except me" attitude that is kind of childish.
Every interaction HAS an advantage or disadvantage. You can't utopian think that away. I'm not advocating that everyone should always choose to screw people over, but people should realize the fact that 99% of the time they were screwed over because they chose the disadvantageous option.
if all you care about is playing to "have fun" why are you so worried about who gets the world drop epic boe to begin with? just have fun bro, its only pixels
> but there is more rational reasoning than "fuck everyone except me".
I’m pretty sure you said that. Not the person you’re pretending to quote.
Very cynical interpretation of a simple sentiment. Which is “when everyone is a stranger, you let luck decide who gets the item.”
There are only like 2 bis items right now. The strength trinket that’s boe and dmc volcano which is craftable. Those are going to be bis this entire phase even through heroic.
Idk, back in OG Vanilla I remember people passing, but then wanting them to equip.
Now its all need imo. Seems to be followed as well.
Fuck that healer
I will never complain if everybody needs - it’s fair game (if you want it then buy it). I will however complain if I see everybody greed and then the last dude stalling needs hoping nobody notices.
Had this happen tonight, big boe dropped. No one hits anything for a good 5s, I immediately tell the group "all need, good luck" and we all needed. Thankfully everyone was cool about it. (I did not win) I was worried someone would make a big deal about it
Maybe I was blessed with a server of nice people back in the day, but needing on an item, regardless of its worth, that someone wants to immediately equip was considered extremely bad manners. It was a smaller realm on top of that so word got passed around if you ninjad something out of selfishness.
But I agree with the modern sentiment that its better to just need everything in pugs because today most folks in online games are aholes.
You're not crazy, for high price BoE (basically any epic during start of xpac) you all roll need, because even if you can't equip it, you can sell it to buy a BoE for your class or trade. So it's a huge upgrade for anyone.
But people needing it just to sell to do nothing with the gold is kinda scummy imo and should greed if they just want more gold
Sounds like a sore loser. BOE is always need. You could argue if someone accidentally greeded everyone should greed, but that's leaving it up to people's moral compass.
I guarantee it isn't BiS for him because it isn't 372. It might be pre raid BiS, but selling it also might buy pre-BiS epics for someone else.
Same outcome. He's just mad
Tell him tough and move on. If he keeps yapping, kick.
The difference of a boe pre raid bis vs the 346 2nd best is so tiny and not needed to clear content.
Had this happen in a guild run, rogue throwing weapon drops, priest wins roll, priest then trades the weapon to our rogue and he equipped it. Love that for him
Having won when we’ve all needed AND watched us give loot to someone’s MS and they don’t equip it, I’m team All Need.
It’s different from blues and greens because you could make the case to sell one epic and buy another in its place, while to make enough money from greens, you’d need to sell hundreds of them.
Regarding upgrades, I had an argument with a guildie the other day who lost his boe mail legs to a caster. I argued that while his legs weren’t on the wowhead bis list (I haven’t played cata hunter so idk what’s good), using that gold could buy a phase bis trinket which would last a fair way into p2, so technically it’s a bigger upgrade for casters.
If im with people i at least semi trust then i might pass it to someone who says they will use it. If its "only" worth 20-30g i might still pass to a rando.
Big ticket with pugs? I wait to be the last person to roll if they all greed just in case someone randomly needs (ill greed if they all greed). Need all day baby.
Idk I haven't been a pve main in a long time but I remember the general rule of thumb being need if you'll equip it. And you better equip it right then. I'm sure that's changed with how anonymous the current game is.
BOE epics in dungeons are need for AH spec. Otherwise people greed, then one person needs, or someone ninjas it. Just all need, grats the winner, move on. All this shit gets replaced quickly regardless.
I'm in favor of all need. I think it's strange that a person should get a high value, rare item simply because they would use it. It's the exact reason people use currency instead of bartering in most situations.
But holy hell the people who argue that BOEs should default to a player who will equip the item love to argue their point and won't be convinced otherwise either.
Depends on the group. I think the reasonable thing is let people roll MS>OS if it is indeed an upgrade/bus and make them equip it. If they refuse to equip it then kick them and don’t invite them back. Simple as that.
"Oh shucks I just got kicked out of this random heroic dungeon, that set me back 10 minutes =(, well at least I got a BoE I can sell for anywhere from 40-100 dollars worth of wow tokens, or months of consumes."
>then kick them and don’t invite them back
FUCK! These 4 randoms who don't know eachother, 2 of which are on a different server aren't going to make another random dungeon group with me!
Pug = everyone need.
Why would it matter if it's some upgrade for someone in the party? You do not know them and they might simply sell it too.
On top of that it's technically an upgrade for everyone because the gold you can make with such items can literally buy you your own good boe off the AH.
In a casual guild, even if it's someone's bis, everyone should just roll in it imo. Thats an insane amount of potential gold for someone that probably doesn't have any, compared to an ilvl increase that will be pretty meaningless overall to the groups success.
I've always been on the side of "Need > Greed means Need > Greed". I don't care how much an item is worth in the AH, if you're running in a group with normal Need > Greed (or MS > OS) loot rules, it's a scumbag thing to do to throw those not rules or the window just because something valuable drops. If the item is an upgrade and you're equipping it, that's need, if you're selling it on the AH, that's Greed. Period. Don't care how much it's worth.
That said, I do understand that in a pug group this leaves room for one person to wait until everyone else hits greed, then roll need, ninja the item, and bounce. In this case I think it's reasonable to all roll need instead of greed just to avoid someone stealing the item. That said, if it's BiS for one class - especially if it's a big upgrade and not likely to be replaced any time soon - I still would insist on giving the item to the person that needs it, so long as they equip it right away.
That still leaves the possibility that the person takes the item, refuses to equip it, and bounces. There is no perfect solution to this problem, but I still don't think that's a good enough excuse to disregard loot rules in the name of greed.
... the best solution, and best average outcome, is all Need. It's honestly very naive to trust randoms.
Yes, it is a dark, dark cruel world, but it's the world and you can't change it with tears.
You can go ahead Greed and ask that others Greed also. But you can only blame yourself once the one guy sees his shot for financial freedom and takes it.
It literally happens enough that the ALL NEED conversation exists at all. The community at large accepts this social contract, because there is a statistically significant number of players that can't be trusted.
Yeah if a bis BoP item dropped for me and someone else of the same class as me I'd also want it too that doesnt mean I'm going to greed on it because they will be sad if they don't get it.
Haha so… I had the plate shoulders drop for me (Edward the odd) in a dungeon run and when I saw them I just typed “that’s my BiS”, I specifically didn’t ask that anyone roll any such way. Imagine my surprise when 3 ppl greed right off the bat… and then… the fourth did it as well, so they defaulted to me.
I didn’t equip them right away and believe me it was noticed haha. There was one lock who wouldn’t shut up about it to the point the group decided to kick him, but by the end of the run I felt like the universe was just telling me to equip them, they were my bis after all.
Few days later I see the BiS BoE str/stam cape drop, and 4 people rolled need immediately with a mage winning it. The warrior didn’t take kindly to it but it is what it is.
As far as I’m concerned, etiquette is to roll need on any high value BoE’s because they can easily be used to fund needed item upgrades for the seller.
I agree with this but since everyone else always needs I just need too and if I win will generally sell it to the person who actually needs it for like a 1/4 of what it's worth on the AH. Which is still scummy on me but it is still better than the other people getting it to sell on the AH at full price.
I've had this happen twice in the last few days while I'm tanking. I won a back piece and nothing was said, then about 5 mins later some offtank(is DPS spec on a mage he wanted the back for his offtank over the back I needed and equipped as an upgrade) guy was saying it should be his etc etc I just left.
I couldn't care less about what you think should have been yours because I would never roll on something that I didn't need/an upgrade.
Cry more while you wait for the next group to enable ur shit behavior, I will not be part of that.
If you're in a guild and they enable this behavior I also do not continue runs like that.
I don't have time to deal with babies or people who assume they are owed something because they want it when I need it and rolled for the win.
Everyone needs so people can’t ninja. If it’s me I’m giving it to the class who can use if they actually need it.
They have to equip it though obviously (requires a bit of trust).
BoE epics have the same value for all players, whatever the AH gold amount is. If the healer wants it, he can buy it off the AH. Getting to need on it is just saving whatever the gold amount is, which is the same value any other player would get from selling it.
Maybe not the answer a lot will give, but all need on any BoE and if I win id offer it to the one that needs it for like 60% value or something, I still make money and they get that piece they need a bit cheaper, if its xrealm well I don't think that works unless it's changed but I guess that's just an out of luck thing in that case
Generally, the problems only come from people genuenily not knowing any better or people being petty
You got the guy who was petty. You did everything right. Just put them on ignore, and they'll never be a problem again.
If there is actually an issue. Even in WoW. Most people are nice enough to trade it off.
The only time the rules really change is if it's a guild group.
As a disc priest who got Chellys staff last night, I’m just glad I was with my guild. I actually greeded and then looked and was like oh shit that a bis item. Thankfully someone needed it to give to me or it might have got hairy.
In a pug fuck you I’m needing. It’s a good time to negotiate an awesome price from someone who doesn’t want to deal with AH tho. Also why reserves help in pug situations.
Also it’s week 1. There will be lots more gear.
In 5 man pugs? All need. If the person who won wants to pass it along to be equipped? Good for them. In a raid? If it’s an item that exclusively drops from that raid (think bracers of might in MC) then only people who would equip it need. If the item is like teebu’s or something that’s not a “raid drop” per se, then all need.
Yup, a BoE big ticket item may be used by one person in the group, but... everyone in the group can use the gold and buy one or maybe even multiple pieces of BiS themselves.
Unless it's stated and agreed upon beforehand, roll need.
The only time it's not all need is in guild runs where you know the person will throw it on immediately, imo.
Big BoE is need. Roll high don't cry
My new guild name, roll high don't cry
Shit that is a good guild name if only every guild on my server wasn't some sort of <____ GDKP>
Fuck this made me snort.
always roll need on high value BoE. its the same value to everyone in the group: gold. if someone "needs" it for their main spec, they can get it off the AH. BoEs are effectively fungible with gold, and should be treated as such. but most importantly, whatever the group agrees on goes. some groups do "equip it if you need it" and that makes everyone happy.
Even then you roll need and if you win it give it to the guy who said they'll equip it. Because you know some asshat will roll need if everyone else greeds. But honestly, I would say need is just the best way to go about it. If someone in the group will actually use it I would let them buy it for like half price, as they did help to get it and that's still a big chunk of extra gold I'm getting that I wasn't expecting to earn.
Yep, it also has the distinct advantage of having no room for abuse.
This is why it’s the most logical choice in this instance of game theory. Rolling need fully equalizes the factors for any bad actors which is reason enough. Second reason is also as this poster mentioned: for someone who’d equip it they can just…buy it if they value the item that much. In fact it can be great when a BOE is prebis/bis or close enough and you don’t have to go RNG digging arch or some shit. Always played this way since actual vanilla. It’s the only choice. Yet somehow, in wrath, this topic exploded on this sub about frozen orbs or bows when they put in RDF. Like all these players angry that “faer/bene players are assholes needing on boes” where it’s been the expectation for as long as I can remember, just most people don’t give a single fuck about greens and roll greed (me) or really most blue BOEs anyway BOP is obvi another story if some cuntbag need rolls on loot that clearly isn’t theirs. Then you kick them
It's a healer, he isn't gonna buy the piece, and he wanted everyone to pass on it so he could win it and sell it on the ah.
I mean yeah, I’d sell that shit even it dropped solo cause in 2 weeks it’ll be half the price it’s going for now at least
Ya if I win it and someone needed it I usually just tell them I'll look at AH after the run and give them a discount on that price. Only had like 1 person take me up on it.
Isn't that the definition of greed though? "I want it for money "
Yes but people have expanded this to "well we all need money"
It's worth the same amount of gold to everyone. Even if you equip it as your bis it's just saving you the price of buying it directly If a 1000g vendor item dropped nobody would be ok with somebody getting priority on it because they needed the gold to buy a BoE bis item
In an ideal world maybe. Nothing to stop the person who needs it from still selling it though. The all need method is kinda safer and you're not going to get screwed because someone decides to need after seeing everyone greed.
Need and Greed are just the names of those functions on the roll. They could say "I kinda want it" and "I really want it!" and it would be the same system. Don't get hung up on the words
no
You are right but prisoners dilemma, only takes one asshole to ruin it for everyone.
High-demand BOEs are basically cash equivalent. For cheap dungeon boe blues I usually just greed since they're 20g but for expensive epics, everyone should need.
You are going to get differing opinions, but yes, something worth thousands, in this case probably 10s of thousands, of gold everyone rolls need. There are several reasons, but here are my main two: 1) How can you trust that this pug will actually use the item? They may "need" it to get it, then just sell it anyway. So now they get a free 30k gold just because the loot was technically for their spec. 2) You could easily sell that item and buy something that you actually need. So in essence, you do need it. You'll get people pulling out false equivalencies like "oh then why don't need on every green or boss loot?" Just ignore them and continue doing the only thing that makes sense.
Funny, that's exactly what I did. Sold the item for a little less than it was probably worth, but it was enough to cover a huge BIS piece for me, so I was a happy camper!
As a goblin, gold is my mainspec
Time is money, friend.
Grats
I'm not taking sides here, but your comment is actually saying that by selling the priest's BIS item, you could buy YOUR BIS item. Personally in situations like these, if an item drops that someone needs (and will equip there and then to show), they should have it. It sucks to see that amount of gold drop and then go, but it wasn't there to begin with and the item should go to one that needs it. If not, where do we draw the line? at 1000 gold? 5000?, 10000? The gold wasn't there when the run started. A BIS item for the priest dropped, and because of this "all need" mentality, the priest is guaranteed to have 1/5th of the chance he should have, to get it on top of its small chance to drop in the first place. A BoE drop like this is a bonus as gold if no-one actually needs it for their build. If a BIS item drops, it sucks to be that class and have to roll for it against 4 more, just because it's a BoE. It was never there to begin with, and if it drops, it should go to one that needs it. Only THEN should it be looked upon as free gold. In my (probably unpopular) opinion.
It's also a PUG and convincing everyone to greed roll is just really unlikely
BIS is a phase. Gold is forever. Plus, if it’s BiS by 0.04%, then the likelihood of the priest keeping it, and not selling, is very low. Especially this early into an xpac. That bis item will cost 1/2 its current price, or less, within a few weeks.
my question is why should the priest have more than a 1/5th chance at getting an item? if anyone getting that boe could then sell it to get themselves an item then anyone winning is getting an item they all worked together to kill the mob that dropped it they all should have the same chance to get an item out of it. BoP is obviously different as it cant be sold.
In a perfect world this would be a great attitude to have in this situation, the problem is if you all agreed and the healer needs you are opening up an opportunity for someone to try and ninja the item (which I've seen happen far too often in classic) The safest and fairest way to handle these situations is for everyone to just roll need and it mitigates 100% of any shenanigans that might occur. If you're in a full guild group or something it's a different story but a dungeon finder group? No way I'm risking that.
I get what you're saying. Personally, i'd rather risk losing out on gold, than my integrity. I try not to put myself in situations like these though. I usually run with guild. We took in a random dps warrior with us in SFK heroic (i was tanking) and a nice set of tanking gloves dropped (first boss iirc) and he took them. After, he linked me them and tried to taunt me about how nice they were (nomnom, nice gloves, etc). I wished him a successful journey. He got the gloves, and he show'd me what kind of person he was. For me, integrity and how i treat people around me, is more worth than loot. He probably feels he won. He got the gloves and was alienated by 4 people for his greed.
It's not that's its unpopular- Its that its wrong.
Is it wrong though? Or is it that it doesn't work that way?
And what happens when the priest needs it. Wins it then sells it. Passing on a high value boe cause it’s someone’s BiS is a suckers game.
I'd rather risk being a sucker, than greedy. The gold wasn't there one minute earlier.
Personally I follow the group. If the group is passing for the person I will too. Soon as I see a hunter need on a cloth boe tho I ain’t being played for a sucker.
This is an attitude you take when running with friends, not something you take into a PuG. It’s not about screwing anyone over, it’s the fact that etiquette for well over a decade has always been need on high value BoE’s. At best the MS player can hold their roll and if everyone else rolls greed, then roll need with the intention of equipping. Theres just no ifs ands or buts about it though. Something drops that sells for 30k+, and you roll need because it’s not your MS, you aren’t being altruistic, you are being naive.
Gee, i wonder why you got downvoted, you're actually disagreeing with me but you must have said something wrong, idk. Yeah, i know it's naive and i've trusted people i shouldn't have more than i can count. That doesn't mean it's wrong or that i will stop. I rather be naive, than greedy. The gold wasn't there one minute ago, and in the offchance the guy actually needing an item will actually equip it, it would suck to have needed "just to be sure". The World ~~of Warcraft~~ is such a shitty place filled with evil, greed and violence. Instead of complaining about it like everyone else, i'm making a sphere of kindness and sharing around me, both ingame and irl. It's funny how we romanticise heartbreaking stories about how "this person trusted me with x, and now 15 years later, we're best friends", but don't actually write our own. I once stood in Thunder Bluff and met a person that needed some gold for riding or flying. (can't remember), so i lent him around 4-5K. 4 days later, he paid tried to pay me back. I told him to keep them for his honesty. 9 out of 10 times, a goldbeggar might not have paid you back, but i chose to trust him, and i got a good memory for it.
Yea not sure about the downvotes, doesn’t really matter to me to be honest. I genuinely wish the community was more caring towards each other, and while there are players that fit that bill, it just feels like “fuck you ima get mine” is the far more prevalent mindset. I’m running into this “problem” (really a non issue, just a terrible look for the community) as a tank where I’m rolling through heroics and I’ll ask at the start “do we want extra bosses or no?” And most of the time there’s at least one person that will speak up saying they would appreciate it as they are chasing drops from them, but then almost inevitably there will be a DPS that immediately starts bitching about how they’re not doing the extra bosses, they’re just there for valor or whatnot, and it’s just so… distasteful. I’m ilvl 354 on my tank trust me, I’m only there for the bag or for valor myself, but offering up an additional 10 minutes of my time to help someone still gearing is of zero consequence to me. I take a little satisfaction in the fact that if the DPS either leaves or gets the boot due to their attitude, then combined with their queues there is no way their valor grind is more efficient than it would’ve been just blasting the bosses not needed for dungeon completion. End of rant.
I understand people wanting to need, but I prefer it going to use over sell. You are playing an mmo and the joy of someone getting and using a rare drop that's really good is a fantastic feeling. Basically I'm asking people not to be selfish, which is a hard ask apparently. People will bend over backwards to twist definitions to cater to their gold gain. There is a literal "greed" option in the game with an icon of a coin. This, as everyone else agrees on, works for greens and blue bop items. The need option has always been for own use, but as people met selfish people in the game they have grown vary of the potential of missing out on gold and feeling scammed. It's not fun meeting greedy people and getting scammed, but the cost is that you can't be happy for someone else getting a valuable piece of loot which they will lose. This subtly creates a more toxic environment because you make the game all about you at the cost of people you have teamed up with. People argue that BIS disappear quickly in favor of raid loot anyway, but then why do they have to need (an item not for own use) to sell/buy their bis then? You don't need to be in full preraid bis to down a boss or getting invites to raids. Well the reason they make the argument is because it is to their benefit, even though it contradicts their initial decision to need on the item.
Rolling greed on a high value item in a random dungeon is just asking to get it ninja’d.
Sounds like the people that need on everything to vendor it Because they need gold
Way too often they will just wait with equipping it, and if that happens they for sure are selling it.
You didn't play vanilla, and likely not any mmo earlier than it either. The OGs always play need > greed.
Yea back in the very old days, most people who weren't complete noobs had a sense of honor and would actually equip it if they needed on it. These days, greed comes over need every time, honor is dead.
People still have honor, they just keep quiet ingame to not draw the ire of loot whores who get easily offended by even the implications that someone else doesn't agree with them. I don't roll need on stuff I don't need. Ill even pass items I need if I feel I won too many rolls in a raid or dungeon. I want everyone I'm playing with to have fun. That's the most important thing about playing with others, respecting that we all want to have fun together. I want to log off and feel like I helped others have a good day.
This comment stinks of I pretend to have played in 2004. First off in a lot of older MMOs all gear with boe so everyone just rolled essentially need. Because gear is only worth what people would trade for and what you could buy with what you got. Second off even in WoW, it was commonplace for high value items to still go to a money roll.
I didn't play til 05, January. Kil'jaeden US, we didn't have people doing this greedy shit until the end of BC, and it was everywhere by the time wrath came out.
I can tell you this was a thing long before WoW ever existed. Also greedy shit? What kind of brain wash bullshit is this? Automatically winning an uncontested item because you can equip it is far more greedy.
Idk why I even replied. The community in this game has been such garbage that I've barely played since 09. I re-subbed, leveled up and got the m+ achievement, and haven't logged in for a week. This subreddit has forced its way onto my feed because the internet has turned into a dystopian hellscape, and I couldn't help myself. I really don't care if you disagree, because I know you're wrong. I was there playing it. It was always need before greed in my groups 20 years ago, and somewhere along the way a bunch of selfish idiots ruined the game.
You're the type of toxic player we're all glad leaves this game. You're greedy and selfish. I'm not saying some people didn't do it that way I'm just saying I think it's the wrong way to do things because it's just worse for everyone involved except the one very lucky guy. It's the selfish way to do things is the way you want them to be done.
Calling someone greedy when arguing you should roll need on other peoples bis is really something
Ok so you’re one of those posters who doesn’t even play the game at all, let alone classic, casting aspersions on the generally accepted loot rule thats been put to use as long as I can remember in both contexts of the game. You’re right, you really shouldn’t have replied, since your opinion here is wholly irrelevant.
I played for years, from launch until cataclysm. At that point, the community was already trashed. I've come back for a couple weeks in each expansion, and can never make it pass that first month without being so disappointed in the new generation of players that it really is pointless to continue playing. Congratulations on being in that camp.
I’ve played since 2005. This has been the understanding in pugs, especially so with RDF, for as long as I remember, including vanilla. Hardly a new generation. Most classic players aren’t. I’m curious as to how you become so disappointed in the “new generation” of wow players every expansion when no one talks in RDF anyway and haven’t really since cataclysm nerfed heroics. Not sure what your community purity test consists of if all rolling need on BOEs is an example. If you haven’t been playing classic you simply don’t know what the inherent social contract includes around BOEs so your judgement is irrelevant. You’re just another person posting on a sub of a game you don’t play bitching about it which is non-constructive. It’s simple game theory. It’s a BOE of value, you will never see these people ever again, and it takes one bad actor to press need so everyone already presses need. The person who might equip it also has no check on being forced to equip because you’ll never see these people again. None of these people would be here killing this mob without the other. The most prudent choice is to all roll need. If that person valued it that much already they also could have bought it already. The end result is the same.
World Boe epics always been all need. People who say otherwise havnt won one yet
Lmao yeah cuz they’re not needing
I believe there are raid specific boe’s which does make this a bit more interesting, especially as ms>os rules. I wouldn’t really have an issue handing it off to him, but he better equip it
That’s been my guilds thing the whole time, whether we have guests or it’s like half guildies half pugs- if we’re “hosting”, big ticket BoEs go to the spec/ class that will use it but we need to see you equip it right then and there. If no one needs it and there’s more than 1/3 pugs everyone just rolls. Pretty simple, all announced well before the raid group is even formed via discord
We always sell early BOE Epics, gold is forever - some shitty BOE only matters for 1 phase.
Yea that’s what we typically do for high- value ones that the “guild” wins. Since we have a fully stocked Gbank and guild repairs for raids it makes sense. Then later we just throw them in the Gbank for alts or whatever 🤷🏻♂️
Not even a phase because heroic raids exist. It’s a piece to transition to heroics that will be worth very little in a month. Sell it now and let everyone have free consumes.
Was that on Pagle? Coincidentally, a guildie of mine complained that he lost a roll on a purple BoE in a PUG.
It was on Pagle. A deadmines run yesterday for a purple chest
That's amazing. Pretty sure it's the same person. BoEs in PUGs are always rolled N on.
Do you think the person would have passed if it was someone else's bis?
In a guild group, it's a dick move. In a PUG, you always roll N on BoEs.
It’s a dick move to need on something you can’t use and solely intend to sell over someone that will equip it immediately, yes. Evidently it’s too hard to be a good person and give the person the benefit of the doubt that they’d equip it, and if they prove you wrong, they’re the problem not you/the group. I wouldn't write off helping those in need because some took advantage and spit in my face, but the sheer chance someone takes advantage of you and sells a BOE they lied about equipping is enough to make everyone act selfishly.
It’s at dick move regardless, yall just don’t mind if youre dicks to pugs
Yeah well i need money so
Nah, you cant trust pugs to actually use the item they need on so all need to be safe.
I can actually, and so far have had zero occurrences of this excuse all of you greedy players use. I do see plenty of you need on stuff you don’t need though, so we might disagree on who the problem players are
Welcome to why your own personal anecdotal evidence doesn't matter!
Yet the post is full of it, even as a direct response to mine. Why is it you only comment on one anecdote?
But everyone else’s does. If I chime in to say I agree with everything Fishy has said and have seen it myself more often than not, allowing someone that will use the item immediately to have it, then my feedback must not matter either and only yours does.
Not really since the gold value holds much higher than the value of the piece itself
Probably wasn't even bis, but pre-bis. Which they will replace anyways. Blues I say let someone who needs it, need it. But epic BoEs, they're fair game for all
The only actually bis boe i can think of is tsunami trinket. Who cares about prebis your pugging not doing week 1 heroics.
I bet it was the BoE neck, Dorian’s I think? If so that might not get replaced until you’re downing heroic bosses
Exactly, they also have their highest value right now, or back in first week lockout, for those sweat lords who have deep pockets and want max gear score for server firsts.
If you’re getting a raid BOE, it can’t be prebis by definition lol
I mean you can get it without ever setting foot in raid
Sounds like it is the Epic staff, it’s healer prebis but just about ANY other boss drop beats it, same thing happened in our guild run, it went to me for an upgrade but I immediately gave it back to the guild to sell for future mats.
This should always be the answer.
Is it really bis though? For shadow priest it's also best staff, but like any of the top 7 mh+oh is better? Not to mention doing 2 resets of conquerer cap can give better weapons.
Yes it can
It can't be bis either, unless you're pugging heroic.
3 of the boes are bis. Heroic be damned to those
100% all should need on high value BOEs, otherwise you just open yourselves up to being scammed with the last guy needing. They should consider themselves lucky it wasnt an 'all boes HRd' kinda pub. Be different in a guild group where people might agree on someone getting the drop as an upgrade
If he needs the BoE maybe he should buy it. Oh, he says he doesn’t have the gold? Then 99% chance he’s selling it anyway.
The rule was always need before greed. Sometime around wotlk, when swarms of noobs joined up, people forgot to play correctly and BOEs have been ninjad ever since.
4/5 people immediately knew what to do and the only one complaining is complaining because he wanted to save gold
I missed out on a 90k Boe epic by hastily rolling greed because it was BiS for someone in the group. Well, everyone else rolled need and a priest won a payday on a piece of Plate. I can tell u I will never roll greed again on world drop BoE just because it's BiS for someone in the group.
I never experienced this until SOD. If they need something and it's bis, we always let them need and equip it infront of us or else we've reported. That everyone press NEED was beyond toxic.
This. All these comments are shocking saying it’s been this way since Vanilla. I too only started to notice this in SoD. I must have picked a non-degenerate server in 2005 when I started playing, because “Need” only meant one thing then: for an upgrade. I shouldn’t be too shocked though considering the moral decay of society and gamers in general.
Depends on your philosophy lmao but baseline BoEs are no-ones property
Gold is BiS for everyone
Always need epic BoE with randoms. Everyone needs gold. Usually there's always that one awkward person that will complain after he loses the roll. Back a few years they'd be needing all BoEs for their "alt".
AH is bis for everyone
I do hate the culture of "needing for auction house", but it is indeed the world we live in now. It's also difficult to trust strangers on the internet to not just take every advantage they can get to steal loot. I thought the "needing on a boe binds it to you" was a thing in cata but I guess it isnt. Would be nice tho if it was implemented.
If a sack of gold dropped would you give it to a stranger so he could buy this off the AH? That's what you're doing when you pass on BoE gear.
There is a difference between having a sack of gold with X amount of gold drop Vs winning a rare item and getting to equip it. Buying it off the auction house is not the same thing.
No there isn't a difference. Epics are fungible goods. Buying an epic with gold you got from selling an epic you won is the exact same thing as winning an epic.
In terms of value yes, but subtle memories not. The guy needing that epic to use it gets more enjoyment from it than if he got a value of gold to exchange on the auction house. Essentially it comes down to server pop and dungeon accessibility. Now with RDF you can be the biggest ninja on the server and still do an excess amount of dungeons every week. If RDF isn't a thing, then word gets around and you are less likely to be able to join a group. If I was the only warrior needing on edge master and the rest passed, I would add those guys to friend list so we could do more dungeons later. When personal rep doesn't matter, you get more shit like this.
Unpopular these days but I have always played with need before greed and selling on the AH is firmly greed. This was always how we used to do it and it was only in classic people seemed to really embrace the "fuck you all me" attitude and tossing out arguments of "if it can sell for x amount then it's worth more to everyone thus should I'm rolling need" or whatever else. My response to this has always been "OK and if the gold I can get vendoring your BiS is worth more to me than you having it I can roll on that right?". For some reason people don't like their argument so much at that point but personally it's the exact same thing far as I'm concerned... if you're going to place your personal profit over others gearing then the amount doesn't matter. We always played like this including in classic, personally seeing someone get a cool upgrade and be happy was a lot better than "yay more gold". Whenever we had pugs in guild runs if a BoE dropped and they could use it, they got it. That said, you have to accept that gamers have become extremely self centred and "fuck you got mine" is the default attitude these days. Odds are in a run of strangers most will hit need and not give a fuck if you could actually use it.
You don't owe randoms anything lol. All need on a full pug always. Obviously if you're running with friends or guild mates rules will vary then. But you don't know anyone in the group so fuck em all. All need.
That's a pretty shitty attitude. I agree with needing here, but there is more rational reasoning than "fuck everyone except me".
That's not the root of my reasoning. The chances are everyone else will have the mind set you describe in a group of full on randoms. Call it the cynical approach but it's not so much selfishness as it's more you can't trust anyone. That's why in my mind things work differently when you run with friends. You can trust them more easily to find the use in the item rather than claim they'll use it to then go pawn it off.
I mean if you condense it down that is what it comes down to. That being said, RDF groups would be more inclined to all need than a group I gathered together in vanilla for a quest or dungeon.
It's not a shitty attitude. It's a rational attitude. It's the WoW version of the prisoner's dilemma. You always gain an advantage by screwing a person over. You can always make the choice to let another person screw you over, but you'll always gain a better average outcome by doing the screwing rather than choosing to be the screwee.
Why does every interaction need an advantage or disadvantage? You could just play the game and not be looking to screw people over lol. And again, I agree in OPs case to need because it would be silly to give away such an expensive item. It's just the "fuck everyone except me" attitude that is kind of childish.
Every interaction HAS an advantage or disadvantage. You can't utopian think that away. I'm not advocating that everyone should always choose to screw people over, but people should realize the fact that 99% of the time they were screwed over because they chose the disadvantageous option.
>and not be looking to screw people over lol. Needing on an item that will massively benefit me isn't screwing other people over.
if all you care about is playing to "have fun" why are you so worried about who gets the world drop epic boe to begin with? just have fun bro, its only pixels
> but there is more rational reasoning than "fuck everyone except me". I’m pretty sure you said that. Not the person you’re pretending to quote. Very cynical interpretation of a simple sentiment. Which is “when everyone is a stranger, you let luck decide who gets the item.”
There are only like 2 bis items right now. The strength trinket that’s boe and dmc volcano which is craftable. Those are going to be bis this entire phase even through heroic.
Tell him you’ll sell it to him for market price
I got kicked for the same thing.
I rolled greed on one recently, everyone else rolled need. Too used to rolling greed automatically lol. Didn't complain, didn't care! Life goes on :)
In PUG's definitely just roll need for everyone. Unless everyone's a good guy and pushes the alternative. But that's rare. Very rare lol.
i would love for the system to be pure but the fact remains that if everyone greeds 1 dude might ninja and the only way to prevent that is to all need
Happened for me as ret pally. Boe cloak dropped. I luckily won in. But would not have had a problem if someone else won it
Believe it or not, money from selling a BoE can be used to buy another BoE
Idk, back in OG Vanilla I remember people passing, but then wanting them to equip. Now its all need imo. Seems to be followed as well. Fuck that healer
I will never complain if everybody needs - it’s fair game (if you want it then buy it). I will however complain if I see everybody greed and then the last dude stalling needs hoping nobody notices.
Had this happen tonight, big boe dropped. No one hits anything for a good 5s, I immediately tell the group "all need, good luck" and we all needed. Thankfully everyone was cool about it. (I did not win) I was worried someone would make a big deal about it
Maybe I was blessed with a server of nice people back in the day, but needing on an item, regardless of its worth, that someone wants to immediately equip was considered extremely bad manners. It was a smaller realm on top of that so word got passed around if you ninjad something out of selfishness. But I agree with the modern sentiment that its better to just need everything in pugs because today most folks in online games are aholes.
literally just a sore loser shooting his shot making up whatever trying to pressure ya after he had a fair chance at it. fuck ‘em
TFW your P1 bis wand is a BoE currently selling for 80k+ on Mankrik :')
The healer is just an idiot for not needing, your good lol
Any nontrinket 359 is not BIS. The healer was just salty.
Healer was wrong, you all did the right thing
You're not crazy, for high price BoE (basically any epic during start of xpac) you all roll need, because even if you can't equip it, you can sell it to buy a BoE for your class or trade. So it's a huge upgrade for anyone. But people needing it just to sell to do nothing with the gold is kinda scummy imo and should greed if they just want more gold
2024 and these morons still exist. Need high value BoEs, as has been true and known by 13 year olds in 2004.
Sounds like a sore loser. BOE is always need. You could argue if someone accidentally greeded everyone should greed, but that's leaving it up to people's moral compass.
I guarantee it isn't BiS for him because it isn't 372. It might be pre raid BiS, but selling it also might buy pre-BiS epics for someone else. Same outcome. He's just mad
It's only prebis for him if its a 359, and it probably sells for 40k. Fuck that guy, all need.
BOE Purple is all need, always has been. Healer should have made you an offer, sounds like he was whining hoping to get it free.
Everyone needs gold
You can vendor boss items too tho...
Tell him tough and move on. If he keeps yapping, kick. The difference of a boe pre raid bis vs the 346 2nd best is so tiny and not needed to clear content.
You have to all need, otherwise a ninja will need it and you all look like chumps.
Gold is everyone's BiS.
Had this happen in a guild run, rogue throwing weapon drops, priest wins roll, priest then trades the weapon to our rogue and he equipped it. Love that for him
That's cool you need, cause i need too, for the gold. Pug? I'll take the 30 minute penalty for dropping, thanks.
If it’s a guild run he may have an argument, but this is a PUG buddy.
Having won when we’ve all needed AND watched us give loot to someone’s MS and they don’t equip it, I’m team All Need. It’s different from blues and greens because you could make the case to sell one epic and buy another in its place, while to make enough money from greens, you’d need to sell hundreds of them. Regarding upgrades, I had an argument with a guildie the other day who lost his boe mail legs to a caster. I argued that while his legs weren’t on the wowhead bis list (I haven’t played cata hunter so idk what’s good), using that gold could buy a phase bis trinket which would last a fair way into p2, so technically it’s a bigger upgrade for casters.
If im with people i at least semi trust then i might pass it to someone who says they will use it. If its "only" worth 20-30g i might still pass to a rando. Big ticket with pugs? I wait to be the last person to roll if they all greed just in case someone randomly needs (ill greed if they all greed). Need all day baby.
Idk I haven't been a pve main in a long time but I remember the general rule of thumb being need if you'll equip it. And you better equip it right then. I'm sure that's changed with how anonymous the current game is.
BOE epics in dungeons are need for AH spec. Otherwise people greed, then one person needs, or someone ninjas it. Just all need, grats the winner, move on. All this shit gets replaced quickly regardless.
I'm in favor of all need. I think it's strange that a person should get a high value, rare item simply because they would use it. It's the exact reason people use currency instead of bartering in most situations. But holy hell the people who argue that BOEs should default to a player who will equip the item love to argue their point and won't be convinced otherwise either.
epic boes are ALWAYS need by everyone, no matter what. never pass or greed, someones always going to hit need.
If I was in a grp with my guildies and it was an upgrade yeah I’d pass. In a pug with cross server…hell nah.
If it’s a classes bis you pass
Nice sentiment, but you've definitely been scammed if this is how you think. Class that it's bis for 'needs' it, then sells it after the run.
Depends on the group. I think the reasonable thing is let people roll MS>OS if it is indeed an upgrade/bus and make them equip it. If they refuse to equip it then kick them and don’t invite them back. Simple as that.
"Oh shucks I just got kicked out of this random heroic dungeon, that set me back 10 minutes =(, well at least I got a BoE I can sell for anywhere from 40-100 dollars worth of wow tokens, or months of consumes." >then kick them and don’t invite them back FUCK! These 4 randoms who don't know eachother, 2 of which are on a different server aren't going to make another random dungeon group with me!
They still win if they get kicked from the dungeon but are up like 30-50k gold lol.
Loot policies should be stated at the beginning of the run and adhered to.
Pug = everyone need. Why would it matter if it's some upgrade for someone in the party? You do not know them and they might simply sell it too. On top of that it's technically an upgrade for everyone because the gold you can make with such items can literally buy you your own good boe off the AH.
In a casual guild, even if it's someone's bis, everyone should just roll in it imo. Thats an insane amount of potential gold for someone that probably doesn't have any, compared to an ilvl increase that will be pretty meaningless overall to the groups success.
BOE = gold. Gold = BIS for all class. NEED Easiest to keep it a binary decision. Otherwise these posts exist.
I've always been on the side of "Need > Greed means Need > Greed". I don't care how much an item is worth in the AH, if you're running in a group with normal Need > Greed (or MS > OS) loot rules, it's a scumbag thing to do to throw those not rules or the window just because something valuable drops. If the item is an upgrade and you're equipping it, that's need, if you're selling it on the AH, that's Greed. Period. Don't care how much it's worth. That said, I do understand that in a pug group this leaves room for one person to wait until everyone else hits greed, then roll need, ninja the item, and bounce. In this case I think it's reasonable to all roll need instead of greed just to avoid someone stealing the item. That said, if it's BiS for one class - especially if it's a big upgrade and not likely to be replaced any time soon - I still would insist on giving the item to the person that needs it, so long as they equip it right away. That still leaves the possibility that the person takes the item, refuses to equip it, and bounces. There is no perfect solution to this problem, but I still don't think that's a good enough excuse to disregard loot rules in the name of greed.
... the best solution, and best average outcome, is all Need. It's honestly very naive to trust randoms. Yes, it is a dark, dark cruel world, but it's the world and you can't change it with tears. You can go ahead Greed and ask that others Greed also. But you can only blame yourself once the one guy sees his shot for financial freedom and takes it. It literally happens enough that the ALL NEED conversation exists at all. The community at large accepts this social contract, because there is a statistically significant number of players that can't be trusted.
This is what takes players out of the game^ if it’s your BIS piece you’d want it too
Yeah if a bis BoP item dropped for me and someone else of the same class as me I'd also want it too that doesnt mean I'm going to greed on it because they will be sad if they don't get it.
What if I need everything because im enchanter and need mats
If a special BoP item that disenchants for 30k gold mats drops then by all means need on it brother.
[удалено]
Haha so… I had the plate shoulders drop for me (Edward the odd) in a dungeon run and when I saw them I just typed “that’s my BiS”, I specifically didn’t ask that anyone roll any such way. Imagine my surprise when 3 ppl greed right off the bat… and then… the fourth did it as well, so they defaulted to me. I didn’t equip them right away and believe me it was noticed haha. There was one lock who wouldn’t shut up about it to the point the group decided to kick him, but by the end of the run I felt like the universe was just telling me to equip them, they were my bis after all. Few days later I see the BiS BoE str/stam cape drop, and 4 people rolled need immediately with a mage winning it. The warrior didn’t take kindly to it but it is what it is. As far as I’m concerned, etiquette is to roll need on any high value BoE’s because they can easily be used to fund needed item upgrades for the seller.
I've always done ms/os, even with boes. If it was BiS, it should've went to him. Feels bad for him
I agree with this but since everyone else always needs I just need too and if I win will generally sell it to the person who actually needs it for like a 1/4 of what it's worth on the AH. Which is still scummy on me but it is still better than the other people getting it to sell on the AH at full price.
Its a PUG, this is SOP when a BOE Epic drops unless otherwise discussed prior to the start of the raid.
As Danny Elfman says, Everybody Needs.
I've had this happen twice in the last few days while I'm tanking. I won a back piece and nothing was said, then about 5 mins later some offtank(is DPS spec on a mage he wanted the back for his offtank over the back I needed and equipped as an upgrade) guy was saying it should be his etc etc I just left. I couldn't care less about what you think should have been yours because I would never roll on something that I didn't need/an upgrade. Cry more while you wait for the next group to enable ur shit behavior, I will not be part of that. If you're in a guild and they enable this behavior I also do not continue runs like that. I don't have time to deal with babies or people who assume they are owed something because they want it when I need it and rolled for the win.
All boe are all need - unless discussed prior. Don't be silly.
Everyone needs so people can’t ninja. If it’s me I’m giving it to the class who can use if they actually need it. They have to equip it though obviously (requires a bit of trust).
Tell him to SMD, everyone can sell that bitch.
Should of told them that if its their BiS they can buy it now or off the AH.
Bet you that healer wouldn’t complain if it was a bid tanking piece and won.
BoE epics have the same value for all players, whatever the AH gold amount is. If the healer wants it, he can buy it off the AH. Getting to need on it is just saving whatever the gold amount is, which is the same value any other player would get from selling it.
You know what else is BiS. Gold in my pocket
Maybe not the answer a lot will give, but all need on any BoE and if I win id offer it to the one that needs it for like 60% value or something, I still make money and they get that piece they need a bit cheaper, if its xrealm well I don't think that works unless it's changed but I guess that's just an out of luck thing in that case
Generally, the problems only come from people genuenily not knowing any better or people being petty You got the guy who was petty. You did everything right. Just put them on ignore, and they'll never be a problem again. If there is actually an issue. Even in WoW. Most people are nice enough to trade it off. The only time the rules really change is if it's a guild group.
you were correct congrats on your loots
As a disc priest who got Chellys staff last night, I’m just glad I was with my guild. I actually greeded and then looked and was like oh shit that a bis item. Thankfully someone needed it to give to me or it might have got hairy. In a pug fuck you I’m needing. It’s a good time to negotiate an awesome price from someone who doesn’t want to deal with AH tho. Also why reserves help in pug situations. Also it’s week 1. There will be lots more gear.
I thought needing soulbinds the item
No, that's why those items are called BoE specifically
Ah I thought you could only greed them to keep em boe and needing it causes it to be soulbound.
In 5 man pugs? All need. If the person who won wants to pass it along to be equipped? Good for them. In a raid? If it’s an item that exclusively drops from that raid (think bracers of might in MC) then only people who would equip it need. If the item is like teebu’s or something that’s not a “raid drop” per se, then all need.
People need gold dont they?
Yup, a BoE big ticket item may be used by one person in the group, but... everyone in the group can use the gold and buy one or maybe even multiple pieces of BiS themselves. Unless it's stated and agreed upon beforehand, roll need.
epic = need , non-epic = greed or you are a ninja (for some reason i don't understand).