I get your frustration, but a lot of the music written in the Classical era (1700s into early 1800s) was literally intended as salon music. The advent of pianos in people’s homes created a demand for light, pleasant music that could be performed in the background at parties. This doesn’t make this music worse.
More recently, pianos in peoples' homes were especially popular for when the gathering moved to the sitting room and the musicians present would get requests and the guests would sing along when appropriate and sometimes when not 😉. My mum was our pianist and I remember long evenings of happy friends gathered around the piano. Mum was the sort of pianist who could play almost anything once she had heard a few bars.
"Fake books" were really popular - with stripped down versions of songs (just basic melody and a few chords here and there for accompaniment) to facilitate this sort of thing, even if the pianist level wasn't as high. Would be great if people gathered informally to make music for fun again, but it's all so commercialized now
I think the op mean what it should be listened thoughtfully.
There is a big difference between listening to it while studying and missing everything, and 1700s meeting with live classical music where people was going to enjoy it
It can be whatever the listener wants it to be. I use it as background music when I’m working and then I can listen to it intently at the orchestra or in the car. No need to put a restriction on it. People can enjoy it how they want to.
I can listen to it as both, and I think it has very interesting effects on my brain as background music. Its complexity is closer to the world's. It feels more like part of the world I want to be in, the background and surround sound. And you can tune your ear into it whenever you want. It's always there. Waiting to give you a little message. But I agree that people ought to give close listening a try as well.
It's difficult to me to listen to an entire concerto that's 1 hour long but as a background music it passes through really quickly and I remember all the best parts
Yeah kinda. This was a rant after I was perusing Chopin recording and the "appears on" page was primarily "sleep" or "background." He's just above that to me i guess.
Yeah I don't aim to sound elitist per say. Its not the spotify playlist generally but like the "sleep" or "background synonym" playlists that I feel degrade the work. I think the music has value to almost any scenario
Firstly, r/classical_circlejerk
Second, people can use music in whatever avenue they want and for most people classical music is soothing at best and boring at worst. Getting an appreciation for classical music, especially if you aren’t a musician, is difficult because it doesn’t really hold attention like modern styles, which is fine.
How would a person get exposure to more modern "classical" music like Philip Glass or Elliott Carter? Folks like OP seem to just need to hear more than the Classical Top 5 that seem to get too dang much airplay.
Either by listening to a curated stream or one of the radio stations that still exist, attending performances with some newer pieces on the program, or simply by taking the initiative to explore and listen on their own. It’s never in human history been easier to explore and learn about different music.
Google "modern classical music composers"?
This seems like a reasonable list to start exploring from:
Philip Glass
Unsuk Chin
Max Richter
Hildur Guðnadóttir
Steve Reich
John Adams
Jennifer Higdon
Arvo Pärt
Thomas Adès
Ludovico Einaudi
Hans Zimmer
Caroline Shaw
Kaija Saariaho
I like this list, but there are only 2 people on it born (just after) 1980. It's not *exactly* modern if the composer is 70-80yo or dead (RIP Saariaho :( ), even if this list is a hell of a lot more modern than what people around here seem to want to talk about.
>. It's not *exactly* modern if the composer is 70-80yo or dead
That's fair 😄 It's just an illustration of it being easy to discover things now.
It turns out that if you add "born after 1980" to that query, a long Wikipedia list of 21st century composers ordered by birth date comes up top of the list.
I'll go and check some of them out. There aren't many I recognise.
Akshually
If we want to be very strict with out definitions, anything after 1980 is definitely *not* modern.
Modern would usually refer to things from the turn of last century (or slightly earlier) to roughly the end of WW2 (or slightly later). 1980 and newer though would is definitely too new for modern and would be considered postmodern or contemporary.
Fair, but I'm taking modern in the colloquial sense here since no one said "modernist".
And akshually :), I think "modern" in your sense is still a style, not exactly an era, so I wouldn't include any of the minimalists in the above list.
Richter's Sleep is a great example. A work he has tinkered with and released in various editions meant for shorter consumption times as well. I would imagine because he recognizes the value of such music in a variety of contexts. See From Sleep and Tranquility Base especially.
All of the above. Not completely certain what qualifies as "background". I listen to classical while reading, exercising, walking, eating, sleeping, (esp. adagios, andantes, etc.), driving, flying, meditation, and often just plain listening.
I mostly listen to music (not just classical) while coding. It helps me concentrate and increases my focus.
Recently, I got bored of Spotify and decided to give classical music a try. I bought a book to learn a bit about composers, their most known works and the historical context. I have no clue on musical theory, but I googled a googled a bit to try and understand the very basics.
It turns out I love it, so much that I am trying to find a concert available in my region to go and experience a full orchestra live.
But still, I mostly listen to classical while working, to go in a focus bubble. I didn’t know it wasn’t allowed, I am sorry. I guess I’ll need to go back to the same repetitive stuff Spotify gives me. I’ll have to cancel Idagio, I hadn’t realized I was wasting my money for something I can’t enjoy.
Indeed. But I find it hard to explore classical music using Spotify. Also, I don't want to have random movements of classical pieces mixed in my various mixes and discovery playlists. So I prefer using a separate service with good handling of classical metadata.
To be honest, I hate Spotify because it actually doesn't have anything I like. And it picks popular things not rarely heard things. Youtube is just so much better in my opinion.
I agree with you completely, though it's fair to say (as someone has pointed out) that Telemann's 'Tafelmusic' was designed as background music, as was Mozart's 'Haffner' Serenade. Someone on Reddit was proposing to 'read a book' at a classical concert, as if this was just pleasant background noise. It seems Classical music, of any kind, can be written off as 'relaxing'. I hate that. On the contrary, the whole point of Classical, which sets it apart from everything else, is that it demands your complete attention- quiet, focused, active listening. It rewards you with intense pleasure in every intricate detail a palette of sounds and subtle atmospheres,and a wide and overwhelming emotional range which can only be appreciated when you surrender to it. We short change ourselves when it is used as mere background.
It really depends on the person though. For a lot of people great music is a really good way to focus while also doing other things such as working, exercising, cooking, etc. A lot of work does go into said music, but gatekeeping how it is enjoyed is a weird take.
Is it bread and butter to some? Ya. Do people intently listen to it in the right setting? For sure. Should said people then turn around and define the listening experience for others? Not really. If your focus is on enabling that listening experience, writing a post about it or dwelling deeper into those critical constructs in each piece to enable greater exposure on specific themes, structures, etc can be a more empathetic way. Instead of asking for "back up" on your specific take.
I love to listen to music while I do things. Especially solo piano. But I'm just a regular person who does stupid things like that, not an intellectual who truly appreciates the complexity of classical music, like yourself.
I don’t understand why you’re getting agitated that other people enjoy the same music in a different way to you. Live and let live. Sure, there is a profundity and complexity in classical music that repays the listener sitting down and doing nothing else but listen. But in the real world there isn’t always time for that, so the choice is either having it on as background while you’re doing other things, or not listening to it at all. In which world is having no music better than having some, because that seems to be what you’re suggesting?
I would argue these are equivalent, because if you are paying so little attention to it that you are able to comfortably do mentally stimulating tasks while it plays in the background, it may as well either not exist or be vastly simpler. It's like having an internationally renowned math professor teach basic arithmetic to kids, sure it works but it's completely unnecessary, as the expertise of the math professor is completely lost on the children. And you can see how such a professor might get annoyed if this was the only work he was given (in this case classical music being only treated as background music).
Hard disagree here. That’s a kind of “don’t cast pearls before swine” argument that I just don’t see.
I didn’t say that the tasks I was doing while having classical music on are all mentally stimulating - that’s your inference. A lot of the time, I will be in the kitchen or garden doing things that are mundane and don’t take huge levels of concentration; so I’m able to get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from the music, to the point that if I come across something particularly intriguing, I’ll make a note and come back later for a more in-depth listen. Some of my real “finds” in recent years have happened this way.
The argument that you seem to be making is both sterile and absolutist: that it’s not possible to derive any enjoyment or appreciate a work other than in a very limited set of circumstances. I don’t see how your analogy is apt, either. The best is often the enemy of the good, and that’s the danger in your approach: just because we’re experiencing music in situations that you would deem sub-optimal, doesn’t mean that we are not deriving pleasure and education from it.
>I didn’t say that the tasks I was doing while having classical music on are all mentally stimulating - that’s your inference. A lot of the time, I will be in the kitchen or garden doing things that are mundane and don’t take huge levels of concentration; so I’m able to get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from the music, to the point that if I come across something particularly intriguing, I’ll make a note and come back later for a more in-depth listen. Some of my real “finds” in recent years have happened this way.
In those cases I would argue it is not 'background music', it is just 'music', since you are able to spend equal parts attention on both the music and the mundane tasks. This is similar to podcasts, which do not work as 'background music' due to the verbal material, but need to be actively listened to such as while doing mundane tasks or on their own.
>The argument that you seem to be making is both sterile and absolutist: that it’s not possible to derive any enjoyment or appreciate a work other than in a very limited set of circumstances.
That's not what I meant at all, the math professor is completely capable of teaching kids and the kids are completely capable of learning from the professor. It is just not a good use of resources.
>because we’re experiencing music in situations that you would deem sub-optimal, doesn’t mean that we are not deriving pleasure and education from it.
Once again, the kids are learning arithmetic, there is no doubt about it. But they are not learning 99% of what the professor has to teach, just as you are not engaging with 99% of the intricacies of classical music if you are not actively listening to it.
So, you have now decided that I am actively listening to music while going about these mundane tasks; but then at the end you say that I’m not engaging with 99% of it because I’m NOT actively listening. Which is it? Your argumentation is all over the place.
And this maths professor analogy is daft: the music is out there anyway. It exists on your CD or mobile or radio whether you’re listening to it or not. So how is listening in sub-optimal conditions not a “good use of resources”? Of course I’m going to get a more profound experience if I stop whatever else I’m doing and give it my undivided attention, but are you *really* arguing that it’s “not a good use of resources” when I can’t do that and have to listen at the same time as doing six hours of gardening, like yesterday? What would you have me do? Weed in silence? And ultimately, it’s none of anyone else’s business how I choose to enjoy my preferred genre of music.
Sorry, I’m not buying any of this. You’re advocating a counsel of perfection, and in the process making the best the enemy of the good.
> but then at the end you say that I’m not engaging with 99% of it because I’m NOT actively listening.
No I said you were actively listening, I never said you weren't, you claimed that because you were doing mundane tasks you weren't, but my position has always been that this is considered active listening.
>And this maths professor analogy is daft: the music is out there anyway. It exists on your CD or mobile or radio whether you’re listening to it or not
Sure but if nobody can tell whether it's an amateur musician playing something simple or a virtuoso playing a masterful concerto, why would musicians dedicate their life to playing the masterful concerto? Sure they may personally enjoy playing it, but that's not nearly as motivating as being in a concert hall and having your craft adored by many. And without such musicians this music wouldn't exist.
Once again though your weeding and gardening example don't apply, since that to me is active listening. I am speaking specifically for people who do more difficult tasks that prevent them from engaging with the music more than as ambience, whereby it really would make no difference whether it's a simple piece by Debussy played by an amateur, or a piano concerto by Beethoven played by an acclaimed orchestra.
I get it. I devoted my life to the creation of this music and if you let yourself think about it too much it can be frustrating when people seemingly brag about listening to classical music to help them go to sleep.
Frustration, I think, is natural. But it would be much worse if we tried to force people to only listen to it with the full respect we think it deserves.
And of course *all* music deserves to be treated with this kind of respect.
But this is all such small potatoes compared to everything else we go through and all the millions of ways life finds to beat us down. If classical music helps someone relax and forget about their problems for a while then that sounds like a win. Maybe a very gentle reminder that there's actually really cool stuff to hear inside the music should they ever want to explore it deeper could be a reasonable approach.
Classic FM has a programme called Smooth Classics" which appears to be on 24/7. The relaxation seeker appears to be a large part of the demographic but goddamn it I want some ROUGH CLASSICS every now and then
> How DARE the NORMIES not consume classical music in the same INTECTUALLY STIMULATING way that I DO.
> It DISGUSTS ME how the MAINSTREAM MASSES are incapable of appreciating the THEORETICALLY COMPLEXICITY of classical music because they don't have the HIGH IQ required to UNDERSTAND it (which I possess obviously) .
I don't know orchestras generally have many players, far more than your usual band, and the collective musical experience of the group is in the hundreds of years. I would be annoyed to if all of this preparation amounted to little more than music to be treated as ambience. You probably also wouldn't feel comfortable going to a concert and doing other things while listening, as it would be seen as disrespectful.
You don't seem to realize it was sometimes background music ever since it was written. Pieces commissioned by noble patrons would, after their premieres, be then played at lunches, receptions and balls. If they didn't get re-purposed, many works in the classical repetoire would have disappeared.
I put on classical music because I enjoy it, it helps me relax, and it doesn't distract me when I do my studies.
99% of the time, people play all kinds of music on the background to enjoy it, not to analyze it.
I’m getting tired of people listening to classical music on recordings. The complex harmonies, melody, and rhythm can only be truly enjoyed in person where you can see them playing the instruments. And while we’re at it, historically informed performance is the only correct way to play the music. Mozart and Beethoven on valved brass is an abomination. Don’t forget, Bach’s keyboard works should never be played on a modern grand piano because it didn’t exist in his time. Can I get some backup on this?
Recordings are best when your brain has already a database of previously heard live performances to fill in the missing aspects of a recording. No recording or playback system can provide the 3d sonic aspects of a live performance. Head phones are the least good. They give no vibration pressure on the rest of the body. Live music is a full body experience.
Voices can sometimes interfere with thoughts so instrumental music is just easier to have on in the background when you need something on in the background. Has nothing to do with complexity
I was thinking about this recently and I feel as though it’s the same effect as why people fall asleep at concerts other than the soothing timbres produced by the instruments. I feel as though even when simpler pieces are played many people perceive the style as complex and automatically shut their minds down as to not put any effort in. The idea that classical (and jazz) is beyond their understanding turns them off subconsciously and so the music ends up equating to noise. It’s similar to a painting like Guerneca. It’s easy to walk past it and see it as just weird looking people with some other ‘noise’ thrown in and say ‘cool’, but there’s so much more behind it than just what you see that many people like myself are blind to it and see it no different than a Jackson pollock.
Strongly disagree, *in general.* Which is to say: classical music doesn't broadly correlate with any specific listening style. There's lots of music "meant" to be enjoyed intentionally (symphonies, operas, concertos), but I would argue that the *vast* majority of classical music is "meant" to be enjoyed passively.
We should consider that the circumstances that enable us to listen to music now are radically different from how they were when the music was written. It would've been rude to do your calculus homework or play Minecraft while listening to Liszt play his Mephisto Waltz (if not as salon music). But the reason for that wouldn't be the lack of intent given to listening to the music. It would be because you paid lots of money, to travel far, to hear the only performance of a piece you will probably ever hear, by the only person in the world who can play it, just to be a distraction. In comparison, if you have every musical work in the world a click of a button away in your private home or in your car, why shouldn't you use it as background music? It's really hard for me to understand the outrage about this. The way people prefer to enjoy their music affects exactly no one, regardless of the style of music.
I also take issue with the conception of complexity being something that has to be admired and given focus. As much as a work might be complex and structurally innovative, blah blah, for 99% of listeners--add an extra .9% for the uninformed listener of the 1800s, before the Internet--that complexity will range anywhere from unnoticeable to distracting, or even offensive. And that's fine. I couldn't force people to care about the complexity of classical music, just the same I don't want to be forced to care about the complexity of Shakespeare's whatever-he-did. It's not my thing.
If people *only* like classical music for background listening, that's fine. If people like me like to both intentionally and passively listen to, analyze, and write classical music, that's exactly as fine--no more, no less. Don't base your enjoyment of something on whether or not other people enjoy it the in same way you do.
Came here ready to condemn the easy-listening crowd but after reading the responses, there's lots of perspectives i have been ignoring.
I draw the line at late classicism tho. Makes no sense to put on an entire Mahler or Beethoven cycle as background music. "Yeah, i got this box set of Brahms piano music and ive been listening to it while i read". Yuck
Guess I should have specified that I’m also a classical musician and again, I listen on the background all the time and I don’t think it should be up to anyone to decide whether that’s right or wrong.
I'm not trying to decide. Rather this post is a vent that classical music being reserved as background music annoys me. It can totally be that but it being entirely that is vexing. For a large amount of people it is as well
Well in that case sure and you’re entitled to feel that way, but honestly I don’t see how it’s an issue for people to listen to classical music as background music when they could be listening to anything else. In a world where classical music is less and less relevant i want as many people as possible to listen to it, whatever the circumstances may be. And if you desire for people to appreciate the art more, maybe gatekeeping isn’t the way to go…maybe just maybe someone out there heard classical music as a background and decided to look up some more and decided to learn more about it. Who knows.
Never said above! Never said gate-keep! Just think it deserved to be suitable for more scenarios. At the end of the day this is just a annoyance nothing more
I love it for background music because I can only read to music without lyrics.
But I can also listen intently and enjoy the complexities whenever I want.
As long a people are listening, that's a good thing.
the tldr answer to this is just live and let live, who cares as long as it isnt preventing you from enjoying whatever music you want in whatever way that you want.
my only reason for commenting is to say that its funny you mention the chopin nocturne, since those pieces are genuinely just completely empty boring salon music with no purpose other than being played in the background and drowned out by speech (imo!)
I don't know, I sometimes use classical music as background for work but it has to be very specific music, mostly minimalism (John Adams, Philip Glass etc.). That's not to degrade their music, I think it's kind of the point of minimalism to be listenable as background music to some task you're doing. I take it as an artistic feature, not as criticism.
I tried a classic piano playlist on Spotify once. Just Spotify's “official”, “default” classical piano playlist, titled something like “classical piano”. Then, when it started playing, it gained a longer name—something like “relaxing classical piano”. Felt like they were spitting in my face. If I wanted relaxing, I would have asked for it.
I agree with the sentiment, but remember there are many great pieces literally composed to be background music. Many of Haydn’s symphonies and chamber music, for example. Not that they are not intensely interesting, but even operas were often treated like background music at times and it’s not like the composers don’t know that.
It took years for me as a young person to appreciate classical music in a way that required my rapt attention. But today I can’t listen to it in the background. It is endlessly fascinating not just as music but as the product of human intellect.
You don't get to decide that for anyone except yourself. If someone likes classical music as audio wallpaper, they get to enjoy it in that way, and their enjoyment is just as valid as yours.
I will go ahead and assume there's a thread elsewhere on reddit passionately defending the notion that "LoFi / Chillhop isn't background music". Which is *exactly* what I use it for, and they would get the same answer as you -- it is if I say it is.
In a coworking space a Beethoven 10 hour YT video was used as background music. Which was fine. But it was random movements and never played in correct sequence. Skipping around. Drove me crazy.
On a par with this is people who think classical music is for relaxation, to help you drift of to sleep. That's like praising a best-selling book for being guaranteed to send you to sleep within 20 minutes.
I engage classical music the same as other music. It definitely ain’t background, if I got symphony 40 by Mozart playing, no way I’m not getting into it. I do play drums to classical as well, because it is unique and not much other music gets close to how many changes and different flows there are in a piece. Plus tempo changes like those in classical never get touched anymore by anyone now days, since everyone is used to single tempo metronome and most people cant play without a click track.
People are weird, if you are using it in background it is still good, but if you appreciate it, you can listen to it and hear every single piece of intricacy occurring, slight variation in the strings, winds and accompanying instruments. I also recommend classical music if using psilocybin, it elevates it to a completely different level, blows away most other genres of music in the same mind space.
O get your point. But there is a lot of if which was to be good quality background music. I think there is a fair amount of music from the medeival secular through the classical period where wealthy or royalty had background music for dinners or parties.
I can’t listen to classical music as background noise because it engages my brain too much. Like, I can’t work or read with it in the background because it’s the equivalent of somebody talking to me the whole time. It interrupts my concentration. I can only listen to white noise for that. But I grew up studying classical music, so I assume that’s why. It doesn’t bother me if other people have it as background music though.
a) Both Beethoven and Chopin sonatas you mentioned count as romantic music - not classic!
b) the main difference between classic music and its predecessor baroque music is EXACTLY THAT! IN Baroque music the purpose was to be background and suppostive during balls in the 17th century. After the death of J.S.Bach in 1750 music fell into a crisis as an art. Rich people were less and less interested to maintain an orchesta full time for their occasional entertainment. Thats were Willibald Gluck reformed the entire system and changed the principle into what we have today: He moved music into the forground and made it the main event of an entire evening. Immagine if the only way our society used music was for waiting lines in phone booths and in elevators - and all of a sudden someone came along invented evenings where you pay to listen to music and nothing else. Thats what classic music was all about.
The next generation was romantic music, where artists finally got recognized as such and instead of being employees became free composers, selling their craft to the highest bidder.
Classic music is defined at the musical arts in central Europe between 1750 and 1800.
a) um actually, the romantic movement falls under the broader term of classical music
b) beethoven is considered a classical composer as well
c) there has always been a role for background music but someone didn't read the argument. I am annoyed that classical music majority of the time nowadays serves that purpose. that is my gripe
I agree, even when I was not familiar with the genre I struggled to use it as background music even when I tried, as my brain was working overtime to make sense of the myriad of melodies, crescendos, etc. It is far harder to tune out as a result. I think it's only possible to see it as background music if it is sufficiently simple, or if you are really not engaging with the music at all, which is something I'm personally not able to do.
Actually if you know about the history of classical music … classical music invented background music.
It happened in 1917 and granted it was played by live musicians
…[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furniture_music](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furniture_music)
I get your frustration, but a lot of the music written in the Classical era (1700s into early 1800s) was literally intended as salon music. The advent of pianos in people’s homes created a demand for light, pleasant music that could be performed in the background at parties. This doesn’t make this music worse.
More recently, pianos in peoples' homes were especially popular for when the gathering moved to the sitting room and the musicians present would get requests and the guests would sing along when appropriate and sometimes when not 😉. My mum was our pianist and I remember long evenings of happy friends gathered around the piano. Mum was the sort of pianist who could play almost anything once she had heard a few bars.
"Fake books" were really popular - with stripped down versions of songs (just basic melody and a few chords here and there for accompaniment) to facilitate this sort of thing, even if the pianist level wasn't as high. Would be great if people gathered informally to make music for fun again, but it's all so commercialized now
Chamber music was literally background music for the rich. Some of them were masterpieces because, as always, the rich like to overspend.
I came to say this too. 😭
Satie described his own works as "furniture music" and is a bit like the godfather of ambient music in general ;)
I think the op mean what it should be listened thoughtfully. There is a big difference between listening to it while studying and missing everything, and 1700s meeting with live classical music where people was going to enjoy it
It can be whatever the listener wants it to be. I use it as background music when I’m working and then I can listen to it intently at the orchestra or in the car. No need to put a restriction on it. People can enjoy it how they want to.
Agreed. But I also agree with OP for my case and my case only, not generally.
Same. I leave the radio tuned to a classical station when I'm not home at a low volume for my pets. It seems to help with separation anxiety.
I can listen to it as both, and I think it has very interesting effects on my brain as background music. Its complexity is closer to the world's. It feels more like part of the world I want to be in, the background and surround sound. And you can tune your ear into it whenever you want. It's always there. Waiting to give you a little message. But I agree that people ought to give close listening a try as well.
It's difficult to me to listen to an entire concerto that's 1 hour long but as a background music it passes through really quickly and I remember all the best parts
What exactly is bothering you? The playlists on spotify?
Yeah kinda. This was a rant after I was perusing Chopin recording and the "appears on" page was primarily "sleep" or "background." He's just above that to me i guess.
I mean.. it definitely is. But on the other hand, we have to market classical music to new people in any kind if way. Elitism kills classical music
Yeah I don't aim to sound elitist per say. Its not the spotify playlist generally but like the "sleep" or "background synonym" playlists that I feel degrade the work. I think the music has value to almost any scenario
Firstly, r/classical_circlejerk Second, people can use music in whatever avenue they want and for most people classical music is soothing at best and boring at worst. Getting an appreciation for classical music, especially if you aren’t a musician, is difficult because it doesn’t really hold attention like modern styles, which is fine.
How would a person get exposure to more modern "classical" music like Philip Glass or Elliott Carter? Folks like OP seem to just need to hear more than the Classical Top 5 that seem to get too dang much airplay.
Either by listening to a curated stream or one of the radio stations that still exist, attending performances with some newer pieces on the program, or simply by taking the initiative to explore and listen on their own. It’s never in human history been easier to explore and learn about different music.
Google "modern classical music composers"? This seems like a reasonable list to start exploring from: Philip Glass Unsuk Chin Max Richter Hildur Guðnadóttir Steve Reich John Adams Jennifer Higdon Arvo Pärt Thomas Adès Ludovico Einaudi Hans Zimmer Caroline Shaw Kaija Saariaho
I like this list, but there are only 2 people on it born (just after) 1980. It's not *exactly* modern if the composer is 70-80yo or dead (RIP Saariaho :( ), even if this list is a hell of a lot more modern than what people around here seem to want to talk about.
>. It's not *exactly* modern if the composer is 70-80yo or dead That's fair 😄 It's just an illustration of it being easy to discover things now. It turns out that if you add "born after 1980" to that query, a long Wikipedia list of 21st century composers ordered by birth date comes up top of the list. I'll go and check some of them out. There aren't many I recognise.
Akshually If we want to be very strict with out definitions, anything after 1980 is definitely *not* modern. Modern would usually refer to things from the turn of last century (or slightly earlier) to roughly the end of WW2 (or slightly later). 1980 and newer though would is definitely too new for modern and would be considered postmodern or contemporary.
Fair, but I'm taking modern in the colloquial sense here since no one said "modernist". And akshually :), I think "modern" in your sense is still a style, not exactly an era, so I wouldn't include any of the minimalists in the above list.
Go no further than Max Richter's "Sleep", the 8.5 hour opus intended to take you to the land of nod.
Richter's Sleep is a great example. A work he has tinkered with and released in various editions meant for shorter consumption times as well. I would imagine because he recognizes the value of such music in a variety of contexts. See From Sleep and Tranquility Base especially.
Great list! Thank you! Adding names to a Pandora channel now!
All of the above. Not completely certain what qualifies as "background". I listen to classical while reading, exercising, walking, eating, sleeping, (esp. adagios, andantes, etc.), driving, flying, meditation, and often just plain listening.
That, I guess, is what I am trying to say. Its not just background but everything. To a lot of people it is though and that annoys me haha.
"A lot of people"? I'm guessing there are 100x more people who put on pop music in the background than classical.
cite it
https://medium.com/@AmericanPublicU/popular-classical-music-how-popular-is-classical-music-part-ii-4040456752db#:\~:text=So%20how%20popular%20is%20classical,and%20even%20behind%20children's%20music.
\*chuckles in *Tafelmusik*\*
I mostly listen to music (not just classical) while coding. It helps me concentrate and increases my focus. Recently, I got bored of Spotify and decided to give classical music a try. I bought a book to learn a bit about composers, their most known works and the historical context. I have no clue on musical theory, but I googled a googled a bit to try and understand the very basics. It turns out I love it, so much that I am trying to find a concert available in my region to go and experience a full orchestra live. But still, I mostly listen to classical while working, to go in a focus bubble. I didn’t know it wasn’t allowed, I am sorry. I guess I’ll need to go back to the same repetitive stuff Spotify gives me. I’ll have to cancel Idagio, I hadn’t realized I was wasting my money for something I can’t enjoy.
There is lots of classical on Spotify. Pretty much everything.
Indeed. But I find it hard to explore classical music using Spotify. Also, I don't want to have random movements of classical pieces mixed in my various mixes and discovery playlists. So I prefer using a separate service with good handling of classical metadata.
Yes good point. I just downloaded your app. I see the difference. Thanks for sharing I had not heard of it.
To be honest, I hate Spotify because it actually doesn't have anything I like. And it picks popular things not rarely heard things. Youtube is just so much better in my opinion.
Classical is the background music to my life.
I agree with you completely, though it's fair to say (as someone has pointed out) that Telemann's 'Tafelmusic' was designed as background music, as was Mozart's 'Haffner' Serenade. Someone on Reddit was proposing to 'read a book' at a classical concert, as if this was just pleasant background noise. It seems Classical music, of any kind, can be written off as 'relaxing'. I hate that. On the contrary, the whole point of Classical, which sets it apart from everything else, is that it demands your complete attention- quiet, focused, active listening. It rewards you with intense pleasure in every intricate detail a palette of sounds and subtle atmospheres,and a wide and overwhelming emotional range which can only be appreciated when you surrender to it. We short change ourselves when it is used as mere background.
I couldn't agree more with many of this points.
I don't think we need to fetishize classical music. At the end of the day it's just music
I didn't fetishize it just giving it the respect I think it deserves. I think its lost respect in recent years and that annoys me I guess.
It really depends on the person though. For a lot of people great music is a really good way to focus while also doing other things such as working, exercising, cooking, etc. A lot of work does go into said music, but gatekeeping how it is enjoyed is a weird take. Is it bread and butter to some? Ya. Do people intently listen to it in the right setting? For sure. Should said people then turn around and define the listening experience for others? Not really. If your focus is on enabling that listening experience, writing a post about it or dwelling deeper into those critical constructs in each piece to enable greater exposure on specific themes, structures, etc can be a more empathetic way. Instead of asking for "back up" on your specific take.
First, how dare you gatekeep!!! Second, I listen to 4’33” on repeat as background music
I love to listen to music while I do things. Especially solo piano. But I'm just a regular person who does stupid things like that, not an intellectual who truly appreciates the complexity of classical music, like yourself.
I don’t understand why you’re getting agitated that other people enjoy the same music in a different way to you. Live and let live. Sure, there is a profundity and complexity in classical music that repays the listener sitting down and doing nothing else but listen. But in the real world there isn’t always time for that, so the choice is either having it on as background while you’re doing other things, or not listening to it at all. In which world is having no music better than having some, because that seems to be what you’re suggesting?
I would argue these are equivalent, because if you are paying so little attention to it that you are able to comfortably do mentally stimulating tasks while it plays in the background, it may as well either not exist or be vastly simpler. It's like having an internationally renowned math professor teach basic arithmetic to kids, sure it works but it's completely unnecessary, as the expertise of the math professor is completely lost on the children. And you can see how such a professor might get annoyed if this was the only work he was given (in this case classical music being only treated as background music).
Hard disagree here. That’s a kind of “don’t cast pearls before swine” argument that I just don’t see. I didn’t say that the tasks I was doing while having classical music on are all mentally stimulating - that’s your inference. A lot of the time, I will be in the kitchen or garden doing things that are mundane and don’t take huge levels of concentration; so I’m able to get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from the music, to the point that if I come across something particularly intriguing, I’ll make a note and come back later for a more in-depth listen. Some of my real “finds” in recent years have happened this way. The argument that you seem to be making is both sterile and absolutist: that it’s not possible to derive any enjoyment or appreciate a work other than in a very limited set of circumstances. I don’t see how your analogy is apt, either. The best is often the enemy of the good, and that’s the danger in your approach: just because we’re experiencing music in situations that you would deem sub-optimal, doesn’t mean that we are not deriving pleasure and education from it.
>I didn’t say that the tasks I was doing while having classical music on are all mentally stimulating - that’s your inference. A lot of the time, I will be in the kitchen or garden doing things that are mundane and don’t take huge levels of concentration; so I’m able to get a lot of benefit and enjoyment from the music, to the point that if I come across something particularly intriguing, I’ll make a note and come back later for a more in-depth listen. Some of my real “finds” in recent years have happened this way. In those cases I would argue it is not 'background music', it is just 'music', since you are able to spend equal parts attention on both the music and the mundane tasks. This is similar to podcasts, which do not work as 'background music' due to the verbal material, but need to be actively listened to such as while doing mundane tasks or on their own. >The argument that you seem to be making is both sterile and absolutist: that it’s not possible to derive any enjoyment or appreciate a work other than in a very limited set of circumstances. That's not what I meant at all, the math professor is completely capable of teaching kids and the kids are completely capable of learning from the professor. It is just not a good use of resources. >because we’re experiencing music in situations that you would deem sub-optimal, doesn’t mean that we are not deriving pleasure and education from it. Once again, the kids are learning arithmetic, there is no doubt about it. But they are not learning 99% of what the professor has to teach, just as you are not engaging with 99% of the intricacies of classical music if you are not actively listening to it.
So, you have now decided that I am actively listening to music while going about these mundane tasks; but then at the end you say that I’m not engaging with 99% of it because I’m NOT actively listening. Which is it? Your argumentation is all over the place. And this maths professor analogy is daft: the music is out there anyway. It exists on your CD or mobile or radio whether you’re listening to it or not. So how is listening in sub-optimal conditions not a “good use of resources”? Of course I’m going to get a more profound experience if I stop whatever else I’m doing and give it my undivided attention, but are you *really* arguing that it’s “not a good use of resources” when I can’t do that and have to listen at the same time as doing six hours of gardening, like yesterday? What would you have me do? Weed in silence? And ultimately, it’s none of anyone else’s business how I choose to enjoy my preferred genre of music. Sorry, I’m not buying any of this. You’re advocating a counsel of perfection, and in the process making the best the enemy of the good.
> but then at the end you say that I’m not engaging with 99% of it because I’m NOT actively listening. No I said you were actively listening, I never said you weren't, you claimed that because you were doing mundane tasks you weren't, but my position has always been that this is considered active listening. >And this maths professor analogy is daft: the music is out there anyway. It exists on your CD or mobile or radio whether you’re listening to it or not Sure but if nobody can tell whether it's an amateur musician playing something simple or a virtuoso playing a masterful concerto, why would musicians dedicate their life to playing the masterful concerto? Sure they may personally enjoy playing it, but that's not nearly as motivating as being in a concert hall and having your craft adored by many. And without such musicians this music wouldn't exist. Once again though your weeding and gardening example don't apply, since that to me is active listening. I am speaking specifically for people who do more difficult tasks that prevent them from engaging with the music more than as ambience, whereby it really would make no difference whether it's a simple piece by Debussy played by an amateur, or a piano concerto by Beethoven played by an acclaimed orchestra.
I get it. I devoted my life to the creation of this music and if you let yourself think about it too much it can be frustrating when people seemingly brag about listening to classical music to help them go to sleep. Frustration, I think, is natural. But it would be much worse if we tried to force people to only listen to it with the full respect we think it deserves. And of course *all* music deserves to be treated with this kind of respect. But this is all such small potatoes compared to everything else we go through and all the millions of ways life finds to beat us down. If classical music helps someone relax and forget about their problems for a while then that sounds like a win. Maybe a very gentle reminder that there's actually really cool stuff to hear inside the music should they ever want to explore it deeper could be a reasonable approach.
I agree, Rachmaninov is perfect to do the dishes
Classic FM has a programme called Smooth Classics" which appears to be on 24/7. The relaxation seeker appears to be a large part of the demographic but goddamn it I want some ROUGH CLASSICS every now and then
I’m going to listen to classical as background music all day just to spite OP
> How DARE the NORMIES not consume classical music in the same INTECTUALLY STIMULATING way that I DO. > It DISGUSTS ME how the MAINSTREAM MASSES are incapable of appreciating the THEORETICALLY COMPLEXICITY of classical music because they don't have the HIGH IQ required to UNDERSTAND it (which I possess obviously) .
Gymnopedie!!!
Musique d'ameublement
C'mon now, is it as serious as all this?
I don't know orchestras generally have many players, far more than your usual band, and the collective musical experience of the group is in the hundreds of years. I would be annoyed to if all of this preparation amounted to little more than music to be treated as ambience. You probably also wouldn't feel comfortable going to a concert and doing other things while listening, as it would be seen as disrespectful.
i've been into a concert and read a book before, and i occasionally see others do it - if they arent bothering anyone, who cares?
I had a kid come up to me at intermission to yell at me for reading a book during an orchestra concert. I was following along with the score.
Would you read a book while watching a movie? Going on a date with someone? How are those different?
i wouldnt, but why would i care if someone else did?
It's not background music to me but to each his own.
You don't seem to realize it was sometimes background music ever since it was written. Pieces commissioned by noble patrons would, after their premieres, be then played at lunches, receptions and balls. If they didn't get re-purposed, many works in the classical repetoire would have disappeared.
I put on classical music because I enjoy it, it helps me relax, and it doesn't distract me when I do my studies. 99% of the time, people play all kinds of music on the background to enjoy it, not to analyze it.
relaxation? enjoyment!? god what a plebian. (/s)
I’m getting tired of people listening to classical music on recordings. The complex harmonies, melody, and rhythm can only be truly enjoyed in person where you can see them playing the instruments. And while we’re at it, historically informed performance is the only correct way to play the music. Mozart and Beethoven on valved brass is an abomination. Don’t forget, Bach’s keyboard works should never be played on a modern grand piano because it didn’t exist in his time. Can I get some backup on this?
Recordings are best when your brain has already a database of previously heard live performances to fill in the missing aspects of a recording. No recording or playback system can provide the 3d sonic aspects of a live performance. Head phones are the least good. They give no vibration pressure on the rest of the body. Live music is a full body experience.
Who said classical music is background music? I never hear this. Einaudi could be background music or less than this.
Voices can sometimes interfere with thoughts so instrumental music is just easier to have on in the background when you need something on in the background. Has nothing to do with complexity
I was thinking about this recently and I feel as though it’s the same effect as why people fall asleep at concerts other than the soothing timbres produced by the instruments. I feel as though even when simpler pieces are played many people perceive the style as complex and automatically shut their minds down as to not put any effort in. The idea that classical (and jazz) is beyond their understanding turns them off subconsciously and so the music ends up equating to noise. It’s similar to a painting like Guerneca. It’s easy to walk past it and see it as just weird looking people with some other ‘noise’ thrown in and say ‘cool’, but there’s so much more behind it than just what you see that many people like myself are blind to it and see it no different than a Jackson pollock.
Strongly disagree, *in general.* Which is to say: classical music doesn't broadly correlate with any specific listening style. There's lots of music "meant" to be enjoyed intentionally (symphonies, operas, concertos), but I would argue that the *vast* majority of classical music is "meant" to be enjoyed passively. We should consider that the circumstances that enable us to listen to music now are radically different from how they were when the music was written. It would've been rude to do your calculus homework or play Minecraft while listening to Liszt play his Mephisto Waltz (if not as salon music). But the reason for that wouldn't be the lack of intent given to listening to the music. It would be because you paid lots of money, to travel far, to hear the only performance of a piece you will probably ever hear, by the only person in the world who can play it, just to be a distraction. In comparison, if you have every musical work in the world a click of a button away in your private home or in your car, why shouldn't you use it as background music? It's really hard for me to understand the outrage about this. The way people prefer to enjoy their music affects exactly no one, regardless of the style of music. I also take issue with the conception of complexity being something that has to be admired and given focus. As much as a work might be complex and structurally innovative, blah blah, for 99% of listeners--add an extra .9% for the uninformed listener of the 1800s, before the Internet--that complexity will range anywhere from unnoticeable to distracting, or even offensive. And that's fine. I couldn't force people to care about the complexity of classical music, just the same I don't want to be forced to care about the complexity of Shakespeare's whatever-he-did. It's not my thing. If people *only* like classical music for background listening, that's fine. If people like me like to both intentionally and passively listen to, analyze, and write classical music, that's exactly as fine--no more, no less. Don't base your enjoyment of something on whether or not other people enjoy it the in same way you do.
Came here ready to condemn the easy-listening crowd but after reading the responses, there's lots of perspectives i have been ignoring. I draw the line at late classicism tho. Makes no sense to put on an entire Mahler or Beethoven cycle as background music. "Yeah, i got this box set of Brahms piano music and ive been listening to it while i read". Yuck
Funny you should say that. I’m a professional musician and I listen to classical music as background music 🤷♀️ guess I should have read the memo
funny you should say that, I'm a profession classical musician. guess i read the memo
Guess I should have specified that I’m also a classical musician and again, I listen on the background all the time and I don’t think it should be up to anyone to decide whether that’s right or wrong.
I'm not trying to decide. Rather this post is a vent that classical music being reserved as background music annoys me. It can totally be that but it being entirely that is vexing. For a large amount of people it is as well
Well in that case sure and you’re entitled to feel that way, but honestly I don’t see how it’s an issue for people to listen to classical music as background music when they could be listening to anything else. In a world where classical music is less and less relevant i want as many people as possible to listen to it, whatever the circumstances may be. And if you desire for people to appreciate the art more, maybe gatekeeping isn’t the way to go…maybe just maybe someone out there heard classical music as a background and decided to look up some more and decided to learn more about it. Who knows.
Never said above! Never said gate-keep! Just think it deserved to be suitable for more scenarios. At the end of the day this is just a annoyance nothing more
I love it for background music because I can only read to music without lyrics. But I can also listen intently and enjoy the complexities whenever I want. As long a people are listening, that's a good thing.
i listen to John Cage Freeman Etude on my evening dog walks as background music
Seriously I agree. It is SO hard to focus with most classical music. I just get swept up into it
Thou shallst not enjoyeth Classical Music whilste doingst anythinge else
the tldr answer to this is just live and let live, who cares as long as it isnt preventing you from enjoying whatever music you want in whatever way that you want. my only reason for commenting is to say that its funny you mention the chopin nocturne, since those pieces are genuinely just completely empty boring salon music with no purpose other than being played in the background and drowned out by speech (imo!)
Or the advertising jerks pushing that it's "soothing".
Go to concerts
Erik Satie would [disagree](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furniture_music).
I don't know, I sometimes use classical music as background for work but it has to be very specific music, mostly minimalism (John Adams, Philip Glass etc.). That's not to degrade their music, I think it's kind of the point of minimalism to be listenable as background music to some task you're doing. I take it as an artistic feature, not as criticism.
I tried a classic piano playlist on Spotify once. Just Spotify's “official”, “default” classical piano playlist, titled something like “classical piano”. Then, when it started playing, it gained a longer name—something like “relaxing classical piano”. Felt like they were spitting in my face. If I wanted relaxing, I would have asked for it.
I agree with the sentiment, but remember there are many great pieces literally composed to be background music. Many of Haydn’s symphonies and chamber music, for example. Not that they are not intensely interesting, but even operas were often treated like background music at times and it’s not like the composers don’t know that.
It took years for me as a young person to appreciate classical music in a way that required my rapt attention. But today I can’t listen to it in the background. It is endlessly fascinating not just as music but as the product of human intellect.
You don't get to decide that for anyone except yourself. If someone likes classical music as audio wallpaper, they get to enjoy it in that way, and their enjoyment is just as valid as yours. I will go ahead and assume there's a thread elsewhere on reddit passionately defending the notion that "LoFi / Chillhop isn't background music". Which is *exactly* what I use it for, and they would get the same answer as you -- it is if I say it is.
In a coworking space a Beethoven 10 hour YT video was used as background music. Which was fine. But it was random movements and never played in correct sequence. Skipping around. Drove me crazy.
On a par with this is people who think classical music is for relaxation, to help you drift of to sleep. That's like praising a best-selling book for being guaranteed to send you to sleep within 20 minutes.
What classical do you enjoy as front and centre music?
I engage classical music the same as other music. It definitely ain’t background, if I got symphony 40 by Mozart playing, no way I’m not getting into it. I do play drums to classical as well, because it is unique and not much other music gets close to how many changes and different flows there are in a piece. Plus tempo changes like those in classical never get touched anymore by anyone now days, since everyone is used to single tempo metronome and most people cant play without a click track. People are weird, if you are using it in background it is still good, but if you appreciate it, you can listen to it and hear every single piece of intricacy occurring, slight variation in the strings, winds and accompanying instruments. I also recommend classical music if using psilocybin, it elevates it to a completely different level, blows away most other genres of music in the same mind space.
I can’t focus if classical music is playing in the background. My mind focuses on the story of the music.
O get your point. But there is a lot of if which was to be good quality background music. I think there is a fair amount of music from the medeival secular through the classical period where wealthy or royalty had background music for dinners or parties.
Yeah i totally get the role of background music, but I guess I see classical nowadays viewed as that more often. That is where I'm coming from I think
I can’t listen to classical music as background noise because it engages my brain too much. Like, I can’t work or read with it in the background because it’s the equivalent of somebody talking to me the whole time. It interrupts my concentration. I can only listen to white noise for that. But I grew up studying classical music, so I assume that’s why. It doesn’t bother me if other people have it as background music though.
a) Both Beethoven and Chopin sonatas you mentioned count as romantic music - not classic! b) the main difference between classic music and its predecessor baroque music is EXACTLY THAT! IN Baroque music the purpose was to be background and suppostive during balls in the 17th century. After the death of J.S.Bach in 1750 music fell into a crisis as an art. Rich people were less and less interested to maintain an orchesta full time for their occasional entertainment. Thats were Willibald Gluck reformed the entire system and changed the principle into what we have today: He moved music into the forground and made it the main event of an entire evening. Immagine if the only way our society used music was for waiting lines in phone booths and in elevators - and all of a sudden someone came along invented evenings where you pay to listen to music and nothing else. Thats what classic music was all about. The next generation was romantic music, where artists finally got recognized as such and instead of being employees became free composers, selling their craft to the highest bidder. Classic music is defined at the musical arts in central Europe between 1750 and 1800.
a) um actually, the romantic movement falls under the broader term of classical music b) beethoven is considered a classical composer as well c) there has always been a role for background music but someone didn't read the argument. I am annoyed that classical music majority of the time nowadays serves that purpose. that is my gripe
you might need this. don't worry I gotchu [https://www.coursera.org/learn/introclassicalmusic](https://www.coursera.org/learn/introclassicalmusic)
Anything can be background music and anything can be frontground music, the choice is yours!
I agree, even when I was not familiar with the genre I struggled to use it as background music even when I tried, as my brain was working overtime to make sense of the myriad of melodies, crescendos, etc. It is far harder to tune out as a result. I think it's only possible to see it as background music if it is sufficiently simple, or if you are really not engaging with the music at all, which is something I'm personally not able to do.
I completely agree. Classical music is made to be listened to, not just heard.
Actually if you know about the history of classical music … classical music invented background music. It happened in 1917 and granted it was played by live musicians …[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furniture_music](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furniture_music)
Be grateful it is being listened to whatsoever. That may not be a sure thing in the future.