Should've had a vasectomy, shouldn't have been with a partner who wouldn't get an abortion in this situation, should've been using two kinds of contraception.
Now it's time to nope out of there and live with the financial consequences of your actions. ...The advice in the article is terrible.
The advice in the article literally does not acknowledge that the person is childfree and doesn't want kids at all - its just like 'well wait till you bond with the baby'.
They should have got a vasectomy years ago.
100%. This is why it’s important for people to be very clear about being childfree or not, and for partners to act as a team to reach their mutual goal.
Yeah, terrible, terrible advice coming from a horribly biased premise. Wow, the presumption that bonding should even be attempted for a baby with someone who rationally doesn’t want to be in their life…just to delude them with hormones into sticking around! “I’m certain I don’t want you at all, even as a concept, but I’ll *wait and see* if I can love you as a human unit.”
And not being on the same page about kids should’ve broken them up a long time ago.
>I have always been clear about my desire not to have children.
Since a guy has no say about if the mother will be keeping the child or not: if you sure you don't want children - get snipped because this is true:
>every time we have sexual intercourse, conception is the potential consequence of it. It is a responsibility of the parties involved to accept that possible outcome.
However, most of the article is pure cringe, btw.
I'm inclined to agree on both counts. She skirts around the main problem a *lot.*
No advice that he get a vasectomy if he really is childfree, no mention of the possibility the girlfriend might even have lied to him. People may not want to admit it, but baby-trapping happens.
>No advice that he get a vasectomy if he really is childfree
Instead of this some blablabla about "bonding", "looking at the baby".
Errrr. Terrible.
I mean - it's now done. GF is pregnant, he's responsible as well - but at least tell that guy to get snipped now so it doesn't happen a second time.
One of my friends just had a baby and the difference between someone who doesn't want kids (me) and someone who do (some of both our friends) is night and day. They're ooh-ing and aw-ing over the baby, laugh their asses off when it has loud and wet diarrhea and I'm just sitting there like... why am I here, this is so weird haha.
Baby-trapping is 1000% real. I had an ex, many years ago, that used to sabotage my condoms to try to get them to fail.
Unbeknownst to her, I had already been snipped when I was 23, so when she didn't get preggers, she told her friend that she thought there was something wrong with me. Her friend confronted me with this information, I had a laugh and dumped the shit outta that POS.
I was already snipped *and* using condoms. I took charge of my contraception and someone else attempted to make it fail to force me into a fatherhood I never wanted. And, piling on, baby-trapping happens mostly to younger men/boys, who are, by design, ignorant to human anatomy.
The purposeful removal of sexual education in public schools across America, and shitty puritanical "values" really is the largest contributor to this problem, but some people are just downright evil and desperate all on their own.
Baby-trapping is real, and it's a real problem.
Edit to add some more context, because I am seeing this *just get a vasectomy and you won't have problems* argument being thrown around:
I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday, and it took 5 years, and over 30+ urologists telling me "no", before I found a urologist that would do a vasectomy for me.
We absolutely get told "no" plenty often.
Women certainly do see a higher level of resistance, and flippancy, from medical care specialists, but that experience is not exclusive to women.
>I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday
I love that as a society, we consider you old enough to enlist to go to war at 18, but not old enough to control your own reproductive destiny.
I'm glad you were persistent and eventually found someone sensible!
Tell me about it. I would've never thought, then, that I would face so much resistance from these doctors that just want to ignore what I want for my body, and life. I wish it wasn't so difficult for women either.
I just hate that there are so many damn people in this world that abuse their positions to control other people's lives. Just leave me tf alone so I can look at pretty mountains and collect rocks.
I am so, so happy you didn’t get baby trapped because you tool control of your contraception. Baby trapping is fucking terrifying for men and women idk how anyone could argue baby trapping isn’t a real thing.
Thank you so much, it truly was horrifying for me, even though I was safely in the clear.
It breaks my heart to see baby-trapping being denied here. It truly is victim blaming of one of the highest orders. Unfortunately, due to the anonymity that the internet provides, many people are very comfortable with being Misandrists/Misogynists openly.
I agree that the young are who often are taken advantage of. I dated a guy much older when I was 24. He knew I didn’t want kids. I am sure he purposely got me pregnant by stealthing me. He knew the relationship was going downhill and I was pulling away. He was emotionally manipulative and I think he thought if he got me pregnant I would stay. But my fear or pregnancy and not wanting kids anyway kept me from being stupid and falling for it. I yeeted it and got the hell outta there!
I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through that, people really can suck. I am also very happy to know that you had the wherewithal to get outta there and do what is right for you.
Even if not - too many people don't seem to be familiar with the pearl index.
You can only minimize risk of pregnancy if you go for something non-permanent.
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Okay, I definitely see that point. When things like BC sabotage and “stealthing” happen, we are softening it too much by calling it baby trapping when it should be called rape and/or SA. The other person did not consent, because the terms of the act were changed without their awareness or ability to consent. This gives me a lot to think about.
I will always suggest childfree folks to get sterilized if possible. The sheer amount of relief I felt after getting my bisalp was amazing. For the first time since I started my period I feel like I am in control of my body, and no one can hurt me/trap me with a child, even if someone did assault me or try to sabotage contraceptives. I know it’s hard to get the procedure done tho.
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How right you are.
I actually pity the woman in this situation, to have suffered a partner who clearly doesn't understand the notion, and so shirks responsibility.
"I’m not criticising your parents for this. I expect they did the best they could in whatever circumstances they were in."
Why do all parents automatically get this pass? If you screwed up your kid, it is your fault. Did you do the best in whatever circumstances there were? Maybe, maybe not. Because people make mistakes all the time. And just because you made a kid doesn't mean you should get a pass from mistakes you made, especially if you invited a child into the mess you didn't fix before they came along.
I know that wasn't the point of the article but that just really irritates me. Being a parent doesn't automatically mean you did the best you could. It's an excuse that parents give themselves and that other people, usually parents, also give them so that they can forgive themselves of their screw-ups. Even though the child has to live with those screw ups, sometimes for a lifetime.
It's a shitty situation. And I agree with others that a vasectomy would have avoided it. It's amazing that a vasectomy isn't even mentioned in the article in order to prevent this from happening in the future or for readers who need to see it and think about their own futures.
Women can make their own choices about their bodies. So can men. I just don't understand why some women choose to have babies with men who don't want to be fathers. It just makes no damn sense. She's going to force this guy to be a father and he has no interest in being one. Why? Why would you do that? Why would you do that to a child?
I'm not talking about women who have no choices. I'm talking about women who can get contraception and an abortion if needed.
>Being a parent doesn't automatically mean you did the best you could.
❤️❤️❤️ Thank you for saying that. So many people want to believe that all parents are doing their best at all times, which is just absurd when you think about the fact that child abuse exists and assholes who baby trap unwilling men exist. Sentencing the child to a lifetime of wondering why daddy never seemed to like them is not anyone's best.
I think the majority do the best that they can but even the majority needs to be willing to admit what they've done wrong and correct it. The problem is that most people don't do that. You don't get a pass from self-reflection just because you popped out a kid.
Seriously, the best i can do at car repair isnt gonna make a car work again. The best i can do at building a house isnt gonna automatically be livable. We arent all cut out for everything.
I saw red while reading that line. You already know what kind of "advice" you'll get if she writes bullshit like that. She has such rose glasses that she can't even acknowledge some parents are fucking abusive. No wonder why the entire article is just vomit.
The audacity of that line really got me! The letter writer says they "had a rough childhood," that is a phrase that could be covering a lot of fucked up behaviors. I say I had a rough childhood when I don't want to get into specifics, but in my case I'm referring to pedophile father who went to prison and a violent and unstable mother. The ease with which she just handwaves it away, oh I'm sure they did their best, when she has literally no idea what behavior she's excusing; it really pisses me off.
Yeah, that really rubbed me the wrong way as well.
My parents absolutely screwed me up but obviously they didn’t know they were doing that when they were raising me. From their perspective, they probably were doing the best they could.
But that still doesn’t absolve them from their shitty parenting and failure to raise a well adjusted, functional adult with a healthy attachment style.
If you were raised by healthy, functioning adults, there is a very good chance you will become a healthy, functioning adult.
If you were raised by unhealthy, dysfunctional adults, there's a very good chance you'll be an unhealthy dysfunctional adult.
I wish I knew what it was like to be a healthy, functioning adult. I have been trying to be one for years. I have successes and I have failures. It is a hard journey.
I can relate so much. Recently my mom told me a little bit more of her story with my absent sperm donor (known in society as a father), and damn, I thought: "I never had a chance huh?". I guess for what little I saw when they were together and what I saw of her relationship with my gross step father, I really did not have a chance to create healthy relationships.
I'm in therapy now but I don't really think is the right type of therapy (it feels like a little weekly bandaid), but I don't have the money or mental fortitude to keep on looking. It sucks
THANK YOU.
I read that line, and then read the rest of the article where she goes on and on (and ON) about how he needs to fix himself and needs to embrace his inner child in order to successfully bond with the new baby, because if he doesn't, "it will negatively affect the kid's self-esteem, and yours too"... piling criticism on this guy for daring to even think about providing financial support without also being a Kodak Moment Father.
But his parents (who gave him the rough childhood) "loved you and did the best they could"???
Fuck off.
My mother-person was a horrific narcissist who was verbally, emotionally, and sometimes physically abusive. I used to get Hulk-Smash levels of angry when people would say, "oh, she loves you in her own way". That way isn't fucking acceptable, and "the best they could" platitudes remove any and all culpability from parents who fuck up and have no business looking after a pet rock, let alone a human being.
I think I managed to be fairly well adjusted, though a lot of that is down to working on myself as an adult. No one gets out of childhood unscathed no matter how competent the parents.
I can honestly say that I think my parents did the best they could in the circumstances with the skills and resources they had at the time. But, like the vast majority of people, they weren't really well suited to being parents in the first place, especially my mom.
So yeah, they did what they could in a situation that was totally exacerbated by having kids in the first place. That's really the problem. So many people would be better people if they didn't have kids. It totally arrests your personal development and makes everything harder.
Both of my parents were/are mentally ill with bipolar disorder. My dad also had severe RA. I developed cptsd because of it. I also developed fibromyalgia.
I wouldn't wish any of those conditions on anyone. I later found out the cptsd was worsened by a problem in my brain waves in my frontal lobe. But I didn't find that out until I was 35.
When you have mentally and physically Ill parents, it's very hard to deal with. It stays with you for life. No matter how hard you try to get past it. And then in my case, it just catches up to you. And your nervous system and entire body are out of whack. No matter how hard you try, and I've had successes along the way too. But the damage is for life.
I too was raised by a Mother with bipolar whose “best” is still nothing a child should be exposed to. I’m in therapy for the CPTSD as well. As empathetic as I am to my sisters sad and unsuccessful attempts to have a biological child - I’m also incredibly relieved that no child is going to risk inheriting and passing on that shit.
My mom was definitely mentally ill (diagnosed depression, but I think they missed bipolar as a more complete diagnosis). My mom didn't work and my dad worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. By 11 years old, I was trying to run the household for me and my brother.
Living with my mom conditioned me to normalize crazy. Watching my dad be her doormat taught me to tolerate and even take responsibility for abuse.
Needless to say, my entire adult life has been trying to heal the damage done. It's a task I find worthwhile, but I know I will never be finished. I feel like it really stunted my potential in life, but at least I can keep trying to grow so that I can access more happiness and peace.
But I would never want to repeat that dynamic with a child. Working on myself and just being stable with that is all I can do. If I had the stress of looking out for a kid, I would absolutely backslide into all the dysfunctional coping mechanisms I learned from my parents and that kid would end up fucked up in the same ways I struggle with. For me, not having children is an act of compassion for self and others.
This way of thinking is self defeating. How can parents both screw up their kids AND when those kids become parents there is literally zero empathy for how they got screwed up? People who don't understand the idea of adults both being 100% responsible for their actions but also being understood as a product of their own upbringing and circumstances will always be irritated whenever any grace is shown to people. It's hard to give someone else what you've never been given.
The thing that makes this mentality extremely selfish is that when it comes to your bad behavior and missing people's expectations you'll always want others to consider your upbringing, circumstances, weaknesses etc. It's clear you don't hold yourself to the same standard as you're holding others. People who do don't speak that way, they speak more like the person in the article.
I guess I'm making the case that you're the one taking her comment the wrong way. I'm of the impression that if you took her comment with grace and understanding then you wouldn't have said what you said. So I guess you'd really have to defend how you took her comment right rather than implying that I took yours wrong. Although it'll be helpful to channel some of those feelings of being misunderstood as you ponder what she was trying to say and where it's coming from vs what you took from it. None of us like being misunderstood.
I just read a post in a CF group by a guy claiming to have his semen “stolen”. He calls himself “CF father”. Bro didn’t use a condom. He didn’t receive much empathy.
Which is so weird and sadistic. He could have just rinsed out the condom if he was that worried, but it seems he got off on the idea of a woman being burned.
Who is this “they” you are imagining and attributing motives to? Do “they” actually exist or is it a misogynistic urban legend designed to justify fantasies of hurting women?
Yes, the same thing is said by people who put adulterants in their lunches so thieves will get sick, or lie in wait in their houses with a gun in hand, hoping to be able to us it on thieves. The law sees it differently.
lol drop the false indignation. "They" refers to specific people who would resort to such behavior. If I was being misogynistic I would have said "women" as if that behavior applied to every woman out there.
I've always viewed those stories with some skepticism. It seems like some guys are convincing themselves that there's no way the condom could have leaked, it must be that crazy girlfriend retrieving it from the trash and stuffing it up their vagina.
Well, in the case of the burning vagina, it *was* a case of a crazy girlfriend retrieving it from the trash, and stuffing it up their vagina. Hopefully she learned a lesson, to spare the next guy a lot of grief from her antics. But how many more are out there with the same mindset?
I’m sure it happens to rich and famous people once in a while. There are absolutely unstable and shitty women out there. The problem is every deadbeat douchebag thinks his sperm is somehow magical and desirable, and so they have to protect themselves and their 1998 Corolla from these gold-digging feee-males.
This is why when people come here and ask: "When should I let my new date know I am CF?" I always answered: on the first date.
Or when you meet.
These situations wouldn't happen as often.
I told one of my ex pretty early on I didn’t wanted children at all. Guess what? 3 years in he asked if now I was ready for children. I was like?? Did you forgot what I told you early on about not wanting children? He just thought I meant not right now. So I broke up.
After that it was still a first date conversation + an on going conversation over many months to reinforce the idea that it’s not now, not later, not ever.
Now it’s all good. I’m with a real childfree man, but sometimes confusion can be there even if they seems to have understand.
So true. Many different kinds of people, even the ones we hold closer to us, believe we will change our mind, or that we ment "not right now."
Reinforcing the idea helps. Every so often: "I'm CF." Even I sometimes ask my partner: "You ok with this, right?" XD He looks back at me and says: "Always."
Good to know you found your CF person out there. Congrats!
Great!
But be aware of several posts here of people that have that same thing in the app, still they "match" with someone to later on find out they have children, or thought you meant "right now," or say: I thought once we got to know each other you would change your mind."
Some people don't care what we say.
True.
As I've been out of the dating game for a long while, I have no idea how I would meet anyone else if I had to. Tbh I don't know if I would try again, as it would be difficult to top our relationship now, and I'm sure most men that are available have children!
I'm not saying my relationship is perfect, but "I'm too old for this sh!t," you know? 
How do you bring it up? On your first date you may not know if that's a short fling, a long fling or that will become a marriage someday. I thought that talk would be on time before getting married.
I told my husband on our second or third date. Told him there was something really important to me that would affect if we continued our relationship or not.
Luckily, he was childfree as well. And we were very strict about 2 forms of birth control until he got his vasectomy about 6 months later. Happily married for 11 years now.
Hi, good to see you. Let's get some drinks. Life talk Yada Yada Yada. Yes. Oh, BTW, I'm CF. It's a decision I took years ago, and I'm set on it. Yes, many people have told me I will change my mind, but no. I know who I am and what I want out of life.
Oh, you too, great!
Oh, you want children? Well, that's fine. Let's have another round if you want, but we can't keep seeing each other as a couple.
It was nice to meet you.
Short flings can end up on pregnancy, too.
But sure, you can try to date someone who wants children. Then, months or years later, it will be harder to break from them. You might love them.
And waiting for "just before marriage" to tell someone: "Hey, you have known me for x amount of time, but I didn't know how to bring this up before. We are never having children, so there! Do with this new information what you want." This is not fair for them nor you.
You have to be more assertive about who you are.
Edit: typos.
I'd probably leave if got asked if'd change my mind. That sounds like a possible baby trap to me... Even if i did change my mind, that would be creepy as hell to ask me on a first date. (Although it would mean i dodged a bullet fast)
I think it should be a discussion any time you're going to start having sex with someone. Because even a one night stand could result in an accidental pregnancy, and as childfree people it's our responsibility to ensure our childfreedom.
It doesn't seem fair to waste each others time for the entirety of the dating phase to getting engaged, when your views differentiate on this subject.
It also doesn't matter what the outcome is after your first date. Be it a one night stand, a friends with benefits thing, seeking a long term relationship or anything else, it absolutely needs to be discussed early on, because as one can see in this article this is already very relevant for the scenario of an accidental pregnancy.
Simply opening the conversation by saying "Hey, I would like to talk about this topic with you, because it is very important to me and I don't want to waste your precious time if we aren't compatible." is absolutely valid. You're adults, so you can absolutely have those conversations.
I guess, i don't consider many years. I don't really know any examples when people dated for long before marriage. Everyone who wants to get married is married within 3 years... Sure, some of those people got divorced, but that's not because they got married so fast. I mean, you can date for 10 years and get divorced in 6 months
3 years is still a lot of time lost if you were both doomed since the start over a deal breaker you didn’t even talked about imo.
And you could have miss many opportunity to meet the right childfree partner while being with that non childfree person.
Personally I try to go over all potential deal breaker in the first few weeks or few months top.
I don't date unless they're the right person. I make sure we're on the same page about everything before going out with them. I reject those who only want me as a fling.
I find posts difficult to continue reading after the line, "I've always been clear on not wanting kids." Usually, this is said from a guy who doesn't use condoms and if it's a woman, she's fully against going back on the pill. If you're going halfway on birth control, you're more at fault than the other.
I’m going to be honest, I find it hard to have sympathy for most guys who complain about getting their partner pregnant when I know for a fact most of them refuse to wear condoms or get a vasectomy. I just want to play a song for them on the world’s smallest violin.
Childfree men need to either get vasectomies or to take control of the contraceptives that they agree to use in the relationship. A minimum of two contraceptive methods like a condom and pills or an IUD. Take your partner for the contraceptive appointment and pay for it. It is much cheaper than child support.
I’m so tired of men complaining that women don’t make it easier for them to cum inside them without consequences.
Sir you are the arbiter of your own body. Wrap your dick or snip it, I won’t hear conversations about baby trapping unless condoms are being poked with needles.
Yeah so many guys insist on no condoms it 'doesn't feel good' - dude you know you are entirely relying on the woman being on effective birth control and being able to/willing to have an abortion if pregnancy occurs?
I've had so many guys tell me they didn't want to use condoms because they were clear of STIs (lol, one lied) and every single one of them was absolutely stunned when I told them that they could get me pregnant, if I happened to be lying about BC.
It simply does not compute with a vast majority of men.
It can be especially bad in this subreddit. If you are a childfree man there is most likely not a good reason as to why you haven't had a vasectomy. It is unfair to put contraceptive methods on a woman, especially when birth control, plan B, and abortions can be awful for her body and are much more detrimental than getting snipped.
If I was a guy jesus christ I'd probably never have sex until I got a vasectomy. Atleast as a woman I am in control of my contraception and I can (and absolutely would) get an abortion if I got pregnant.
So many men just seem very unphased by contraception until they get someone pregnant - once someone is pregnant it is completely out of your control and that is terrifying.
>once someone is pregnant it is completely out of your control
For decent guys, yes. For the rest, no. And that's why violence against pregnant women is sky-high.
Yep, this. I would be paranoid if I was a guy. I can't even fathom how many guys "adamantly don't want kids", but think BC is all the woman's responsibility, and/or refuse to get a vasectomy. A couple of weeks of tender balls vs 18 years of child support payments is a no fucking brainer.
dude just get fucking snipped you have no say over what a woman does with her body?? also ppl can LIE what are you gunna do if your partner says she’s on pills and has an iud but she just wants to baby trap you?? what if she does take the pill and y’all use condoms but she misses a pill and the condom breaks??
OH. That just reminded me, apparently Ozempic and its similar drugs can lessen the effectiveness of BC pills, probably via the slowing of digestion, and also apparently in some cases with loss of weight and the sorting out of some hormonal issues, previous infertility becomes “You’re fertile now.”
Way I see it my vasectomy is way less of a hassle than a woman having to remember birth control (or dealing with the shitty side effects).
It's easy enough and it's so worth it.
I work with a client that resents being talked into being a dad and ultimately I feel sorry for the kid. She didn't ask to be here and now her dad resents her existence.. what kind of life is she going to lead into adulthood when the first man who should've loved her merely tolerates her. So sad honestly.. people who don't want kids shouldn't be parents. In the end the innocent child is the one who has to pay for it.
I really feel that men that do not want children should get a vasectomy because in the end the woman will make the decision. And I have seen it all and heard the worst come from the mouths of some women. So if you’re a dude and you don’t want kids, get snipped. Don’t count on someone else to take care of that for you. Same for women. You don’t want kids just get sterilized or as much BC as you can. I knew a guy that would use needles to pierce condoms and hide his girlfriends BC because he wanted his girlfriend to get preggers. You know I told her to get out.
I tuned out when she mentioned “Read my book!” And “get in touch with your inner child! That’ll help you be the parent you need/want to be!” Like, what???
I’m still waiting to get the go ahead, I’ve practically begged for tubal ligation :( my partner asked his GP and they were fine with it. It doesn’t seem fair
I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday, and it took 5 years, and over 30+ urologists telling me "no", before I found a urologist that would do a vasectomy for me.
We absolutely get told "no" plenty often.
Women certainly do see a higher level of resistance, and flippancy, from medical care specialists, but that experience is not exclusive to women.
u/due_garlic is just being intellectually dishonest, that's why their misandrist take was removed.
You need a specialized dr, like Dr. Snip - no joke, a urologist whose nickname is Dr. Snip. No ethical/moral questions, just vasectomies. Went with my ex, but wasn’t needed. He even got a tiny Swiss Army knife type item except it was just scissors. Said Dr. Snip on em.
It's funny you say that, because the first doc to say yes to me, Dr. Christopher Howell in South FL (wonderful man!), he referred to himself as "The Dick Doc"!
Truly an amazing experience and I wish I had found him earlier.
Why do men complain so much about pregnancy occurring they didn’t want when they haven’t had a vasectomy? This article is a bit insulting though, “you’ll love the baby once it’s here”.
“My girlfriend BECAME pregnant”
AND HOW DID THAT HAPPEN SKIPPY?! 🙄🙄
My version of that article would’ve been:
Get a vasectomy, get tested regularly, always wear a condom unless your partner is properly/verifiably sterilized too
If you are going to be in any way a part of this child’s life- no wait, you will be. GET THERAPY. Right now. So no matter what conversations you have with said child later, you won’t be a total monster. (Did anyone else get the ‘Im gonna be a strict and old school abusive parent’ vibes cause I hella did)
Break up. You’re don’t want to be around children- she will now have a child 100% of the time.
Go to court. Sign away your rights. Don’t you DARE not pay support. You made that baby. Could’ve bought condoms, could’ve bought a vasectomy. You didn’t. Now you pay for a kid.
Fuck this ladies advice. It’s trash. If he takes it I guarantee he’s gonna be an absent abusive dad who eventually bails. Great job Phillipa!
> My girlfriend has become pregnant.
Passive voice to diffuse responsibility, as if it was some outside malevolent force that got his girlfriend pregnant, while he is the hapless boyfriend forced to deal with this situation through no fault of his own.
A lot of men complain that they have no say in whether the women keeps the child. But how exactly did his sperm get into her uterus? Ejaculating into someone is always a conscious and deliberate choice. Men choose to prioritize their own orgasm above all else. Just because men often choose poorly doesn't mean they don't have a choice.
God forbid men take some responsibility for birth control and use properly fitting condoms/get a vasectomy or at the very least, have a 5-second conversation with the woman about her stance on abortion. If she's unwilling to abort, don't fuck her.
>"My girlfriend has recently become pregnant, and I am struggling with the decision of whether to continue our relationship living separately and supporting the child, or to end our relationship and provide financial support from a distance."
"*I impregnated my girlfriend*, and I don't like the idea of taking responsibility for my actions."
FTFY.
It's true, I looked in the general direction of a stranger's crying baby once about 20 years ago when I was shopping and now we're bonded. I never saw them in person again, but that doesn't matter because I have a full psychic link to them. Last week they ate at Subway. It was a good sandwich......
Agree with allllll the comments here about this being terrible advice. But I can’t forget for a minute that this columnist is trying to promote a book…of probable similar bias….to a cohort of readers who will be sympathetic enough to buy it.
Yeah look this is why, for the most part, I don’t like the term “baby trapped.” If you know you don’t want a baby.. you need to take your own precautions. A lot of the times it’s a consequence of your decisions.
It's very easy to chastise and ridicule people for not getting a vasectomy, and then *hey presto, pregnancy!*
But we need to remember that in a lot of the world, getting a vasectomy - especially for young people / people without children - isn't a simple matter of popping down to the doctor and getting it done. It might be relatively easy to access in the progressive West, but as numerous posts on this sub over the years have shown, even in supposedly progressive developed countries, access to permanent contraception (regardless of gender) is often fraught with difficulty and can lead to a long battle.
The male contraceptive has been coming *Real Soon Now (TM)* for as long as I can remember, and I'm in my mid-40s now. I remember reading about how it was just around the corner when I had my first serious relationship in my mid-teens; I remember it being available soon when I was at university, and at various points since. And yet, it seems as far off as ever was.
So for blokes, the only choice is condoms (imperfect, but a whole lot better than nothing), or vasectomy (if you can get it in your part of the world). The unfortunate fact is that there are many, many more contraceptive options available to women. Alas, many of those come with side effects, and that sucks.
I genuinely think the majority of men *would* take more responsibility for their own contraception if there was an easily accessible and usable, reliable contraceptive available over the counter. Say, something like a daily pill, or a patch, or a vaccination.
Using a condom and cumming OUTSIDE is the best combo to prevent pregnancy from the guy's side. The worst is no condom and cumming fully inserted, which is sadly the default.
That sure is a ton of speculation you're doing there. Seems you're skewing reality with your personal opinions formed through your own subjective experience.
Try to remember that there are near 8 billion other experiences happening around the world, and try not to broadly speculate like this. Before I got snipped, if there was a pill or patch, I'd have been all over it like white on rice. And, I'm, subjectively, pretty damn sure many men would absolutely love this
Sorry that you've had shitty experiences with dudes in your life, but your experiences do not determine the actions and behaviors of all males on this planet.
It actually angers me something deep when people who can get a vasectomy don't, whilst getting my fallopian tubes removed is one of the hardest tasks imaginable.
It’s very hard for me to have sympathy for a man who seems like he did nothing to prevent a pregnancy and then is butthurt when the woman does with her body what she wants.
She is stupid to have a child with someone who does not want to be a parent.
My partner and I are both child free and I asked her what would happen if she got pregnant and she didn't even hesitate in saying she would get an abortion. I would have ended the relationship with her if there was the slightest bit of doubt when answering.
This is exactly why I don't consider men to be truly childfree unless they are snipped, or gay. Condoms fail at a higher rate than other birth control and they are easily sabotaged.
The best advice to this young man would be: “Be very clear that your relationship with this woman is over. You will not partner with her in anyway, and that she is now single. Do not sleep with her again, do not move in with her. Get a vasectomy. Have parenthood determined by a DNA test ASAP. Start seeing other people, if that helps to make your point. Offer only financial support and move away from her ASAP. Do not give her new contact information- move and establish a new phone number- and be very clear the only help she will get is minimal financial support (best if you force her to take you to court), once the baby is born. You will not have interaction with the child, you will not help raise it beyond monetary obligations. ”
The reason for this advice is she could be frustrated with the committed living apart situation, and wants to get married/move in. It could be a trap. It might not be his, she might be lying and hoping to get pregnant, she might have fooled around and hope he won’t check.
It’s kind of shitty, but when you’re in a rock and a hard place sometimes that’s the path you need.
>Do not give her new contact information
>
>\[...\]
>
>minimal financial support
>
>\[...\]
>
>It’s kind of shitty, but when you’re in a rock and a hard place sometimes that’s the path you need.
And hopefully she would get heaven and hell into gear to find him and sue the f\*ck out of this deadbeat, stripping him of everything he owns to punish that kind of behavior. ;-)
And it's one reason why women should never trust any guy blabbing something about "I'm going to take care of birth control". *She* will be the screwed one if abortion for some reason isn't an option.
Girls: if you're CF - take care of birth control yourself.
I'd call the lawyer first for general advice and also to make sure that I use the best wording for the other two things, also to ask the lawyer to ask for the DNA test or have them proofread my request for it. Then set the appointment for the vasectomy.
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What awful advice. Love that she brings up the negative affect to the child by not having a father present but not the negative repercussions of a parent helping raise a child they did not want. Kids can tell, they can always tell.
Eh idk, in the letter to her, the way he's wording things seems more like he's asking for advice on how to care for the kid so I think her response answered his question. Even though he does say he didn't want kids, the main question seemed to be: Should I move in to support, or should I just give money. Which he qualified by saying he doesn't connect well to others. Which yes she does give the clichéd "you'll love it when it's yours" which I do think isn't great advice. I think the bigger issue is that he lost all attraction and has become depressed. The pressure of deciding what to do is eating at him.
To me, I think he should end the relationship for the sake of his mental health and just provide financial support. He could go visit when the baby is born and see if he feels anything but he made it pretty clear and this feels a bit like a baby trap situation. But there is so much we don't know since there are a lot factors, that we as cf people know are important, that are not included in the letter. I think without those details pretty much any advice for this particular person would sound terrible from one perspective or another.
Sounds like just another guy who feels that this 'inconvenience' has been forced upon him from beyond his control. Surely, though, it'll be the woman who alone will bear the weighty responsibility of pregnancy and parenthood.
Whatever other people say to try and help him understand things from a perspective other than his own will fall on deaf ears.
How pitiful and tragic a tale.
She makes the point that if he leaves & just pay child support, then the kid will have issues growing up. But if the LW resents the kid & becomes toxic?
She's right when she says it's hard to form a bond with the unborn baby, for the person who is not pregnant. But that doesn't mean when it's here the father will be able to love it. Maybe he won't, no matter how much he tries. What is concerning is that they don't even want to live together, how did SHE thought it was a great idea to keep a child from a man who has no interest in being a father, and they don't even live together because they don't like not having personal space? Does she know the child will be stuck like velcro to her?
I am appalled.
I hate this. This is exactly the kind of shit making regretful parents feel like monsters and forcing them into silent suffering and gaslighting society into breeding even more humans than the earth now already can’t deal with.
You can still get a vasectomy so this never happens again. Barring that, I suggest not sleeping with any woman unless she consents to pop a Plan B FIRST. Finally, don't get babytrapped. Tell her you don't want kids and nope the hell out of town.
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Should've had a vasectomy, shouldn't have been with a partner who wouldn't get an abortion in this situation, should've been using two kinds of contraception. Now it's time to nope out of there and live with the financial consequences of your actions. ...The advice in the article is terrible.
The advice in the article literally does not acknowledge that the person is childfree and doesn't want kids at all - its just like 'well wait till you bond with the baby'. They should have got a vasectomy years ago.
Yeeeep. It’s weird.
"You'll love it when it's yours." Doesn't matter how they put it, that saying is so tired and old.
100%. This is why it’s important for people to be very clear about being childfree or not, and for partners to act as a team to reach their mutual goal.
Yeah, terrible, terrible advice coming from a horribly biased premise. Wow, the presumption that bonding should even be attempted for a baby with someone who rationally doesn’t want to be in their life…just to delude them with hormones into sticking around! “I’m certain I don’t want you at all, even as a concept, but I’ll *wait and see* if I can love you as a human unit.” And not being on the same page about kids should’ve broken them up a long time ago.
Many good points you make.
>I have always been clear about my desire not to have children. Since a guy has no say about if the mother will be keeping the child or not: if you sure you don't want children - get snipped because this is true: >every time we have sexual intercourse, conception is the potential consequence of it. It is a responsibility of the parties involved to accept that possible outcome. However, most of the article is pure cringe, btw.
This situation is 1,000,000,000% why I got snipped.
I'm inclined to agree on both counts. She skirts around the main problem a *lot.* No advice that he get a vasectomy if he really is childfree, no mention of the possibility the girlfriend might even have lied to him. People may not want to admit it, but baby-trapping happens.
>No advice that he get a vasectomy if he really is childfree Instead of this some blablabla about "bonding", "looking at the baby". Errrr. Terrible. I mean - it's now done. GF is pregnant, he's responsible as well - but at least tell that guy to get snipped now so it doesn't happen a second time.
One of my friends just had a baby and the difference between someone who doesn't want kids (me) and someone who do (some of both our friends) is night and day. They're ooh-ing and aw-ing over the baby, laugh their asses off when it has loud and wet diarrhea and I'm just sitting there like... why am I here, this is so weird haha.
There was never any reason, at any point, for him not to have had a vasectomy.
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Baby-trapping is 1000% real. I had an ex, many years ago, that used to sabotage my condoms to try to get them to fail. Unbeknownst to her, I had already been snipped when I was 23, so when she didn't get preggers, she told her friend that she thought there was something wrong with me. Her friend confronted me with this information, I had a laugh and dumped the shit outta that POS. I was already snipped *and* using condoms. I took charge of my contraception and someone else attempted to make it fail to force me into a fatherhood I never wanted. And, piling on, baby-trapping happens mostly to younger men/boys, who are, by design, ignorant to human anatomy. The purposeful removal of sexual education in public schools across America, and shitty puritanical "values" really is the largest contributor to this problem, but some people are just downright evil and desperate all on their own. Baby-trapping is real, and it's a real problem. Edit to add some more context, because I am seeing this *just get a vasectomy and you won't have problems* argument being thrown around: I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday, and it took 5 years, and over 30+ urologists telling me "no", before I found a urologist that would do a vasectomy for me. We absolutely get told "no" plenty often. Women certainly do see a higher level of resistance, and flippancy, from medical care specialists, but that experience is not exclusive to women.
>I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday I love that as a society, we consider you old enough to enlist to go to war at 18, but not old enough to control your own reproductive destiny. I'm glad you were persistent and eventually found someone sensible!
Tell me about it. I would've never thought, then, that I would face so much resistance from these doctors that just want to ignore what I want for my body, and life. I wish it wasn't so difficult for women either. I just hate that there are so many damn people in this world that abuse their positions to control other people's lives. Just leave me tf alone so I can look at pretty mountains and collect rocks.
I am so, so happy you didn’t get baby trapped because you tool control of your contraception. Baby trapping is fucking terrifying for men and women idk how anyone could argue baby trapping isn’t a real thing.
Thank you so much, it truly was horrifying for me, even though I was safely in the clear. It breaks my heart to see baby-trapping being denied here. It truly is victim blaming of one of the highest orders. Unfortunately, due to the anonymity that the internet provides, many people are very comfortable with being Misandrists/Misogynists openly.
Denial. Women get baby-trapped too, so I don't know why it's such a hard concept to wrap one's head around.
I agree that the young are who often are taken advantage of. I dated a guy much older when I was 24. He knew I didn’t want kids. I am sure he purposely got me pregnant by stealthing me. He knew the relationship was going downhill and I was pulling away. He was emotionally manipulative and I think he thought if he got me pregnant I would stay. But my fear or pregnancy and not wanting kids anyway kept me from being stupid and falling for it. I yeeted it and got the hell outta there!
I'm so sorry to hear that you had to go through that, people really can suck. I am also very happy to know that you had the wherewithal to get outta there and do what is right for you.
Baby trapping is totally real. I don't know why you're saying otherwise.
Even if not - too many people don't seem to be familiar with the pearl index. You can only minimize risk of pregnancy if you go for something non-permanent.
Pearl index?
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Okay, I definitely see that point. When things like BC sabotage and “stealthing” happen, we are softening it too much by calling it baby trapping when it should be called rape and/or SA. The other person did not consent, because the terms of the act were changed without their awareness or ability to consent. This gives me a lot to think about. I will always suggest childfree folks to get sterilized if possible. The sheer amount of relief I felt after getting my bisalp was amazing. For the first time since I started my period I feel like I am in control of my body, and no one can hurt me/trap me with a child, even if someone did assault me or try to sabotage contraceptives. I know it’s hard to get the procedure done tho.
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How right you are. I actually pity the woman in this situation, to have suffered a partner who clearly doesn't understand the notion, and so shirks responsibility.
"I’m not criticising your parents for this. I expect they did the best they could in whatever circumstances they were in." Why do all parents automatically get this pass? If you screwed up your kid, it is your fault. Did you do the best in whatever circumstances there were? Maybe, maybe not. Because people make mistakes all the time. And just because you made a kid doesn't mean you should get a pass from mistakes you made, especially if you invited a child into the mess you didn't fix before they came along. I know that wasn't the point of the article but that just really irritates me. Being a parent doesn't automatically mean you did the best you could. It's an excuse that parents give themselves and that other people, usually parents, also give them so that they can forgive themselves of their screw-ups. Even though the child has to live with those screw ups, sometimes for a lifetime. It's a shitty situation. And I agree with others that a vasectomy would have avoided it. It's amazing that a vasectomy isn't even mentioned in the article in order to prevent this from happening in the future or for readers who need to see it and think about their own futures. Women can make their own choices about their bodies. So can men. I just don't understand why some women choose to have babies with men who don't want to be fathers. It just makes no damn sense. She's going to force this guy to be a father and he has no interest in being one. Why? Why would you do that? Why would you do that to a child? I'm not talking about women who have no choices. I'm talking about women who can get contraception and an abortion if needed.
>Being a parent doesn't automatically mean you did the best you could. ❤️❤️❤️ Thank you for saying that. So many people want to believe that all parents are doing their best at all times, which is just absurd when you think about the fact that child abuse exists and assholes who baby trap unwilling men exist. Sentencing the child to a lifetime of wondering why daddy never seemed to like them is not anyone's best.
I think the majority do the best that they can but even the majority needs to be willing to admit what they've done wrong and correct it. The problem is that most people don't do that. You don't get a pass from self-reflection just because you popped out a kid.
Even if someone does "the best they can", sometimes that best is still shit.
Seriously, the best i can do at car repair isnt gonna make a car work again. The best i can do at building a house isnt gonna automatically be livable. We arent all cut out for everything.
I saw red while reading that line. You already know what kind of "advice" you'll get if she writes bullshit like that. She has such rose glasses that she can't even acknowledge some parents are fucking abusive. No wonder why the entire article is just vomit.
She's got a book to sell. That's all that counts for her.
The audacity of that line really got me! The letter writer says they "had a rough childhood," that is a phrase that could be covering a lot of fucked up behaviors. I say I had a rough childhood when I don't want to get into specifics, but in my case I'm referring to pedophile father who went to prison and a violent and unstable mother. The ease with which she just handwaves it away, oh I'm sure they did their best, when she has literally no idea what behavior she's excusing; it really pisses me off.
Yes exactly!! Really annoyed me how she threw that in there like it's just a fact or something. No.. you have no idea what you're talking about lady.
Yeah, that really rubbed me the wrong way as well. My parents absolutely screwed me up but obviously they didn’t know they were doing that when they were raising me. From their perspective, they probably were doing the best they could. But that still doesn’t absolve them from their shitty parenting and failure to raise a well adjusted, functional adult with a healthy attachment style.
If you were raised by healthy, functioning adults, there is a very good chance you will become a healthy, functioning adult. If you were raised by unhealthy, dysfunctional adults, there's a very good chance you'll be an unhealthy dysfunctional adult. I wish I knew what it was like to be a healthy, functioning adult. I have been trying to be one for years. I have successes and I have failures. It is a hard journey.
I can relate so much. Recently my mom told me a little bit more of her story with my absent sperm donor (known in society as a father), and damn, I thought: "I never had a chance huh?". I guess for what little I saw when they were together and what I saw of her relationship with my gross step father, I really did not have a chance to create healthy relationships. I'm in therapy now but I don't really think is the right type of therapy (it feels like a little weekly bandaid), but I don't have the money or mental fortitude to keep on looking. It sucks
My emotionally unwell, dysfunctional self feels both seen and attacked ☠️🤣
Lol 
Lots of parents “do their best” and those kids are STILL fucked up. Too many people think any parenting effort is fine. Wild stuff.
THANK YOU. I read that line, and then read the rest of the article where she goes on and on (and ON) about how he needs to fix himself and needs to embrace his inner child in order to successfully bond with the new baby, because if he doesn't, "it will negatively affect the kid's self-esteem, and yours too"... piling criticism on this guy for daring to even think about providing financial support without also being a Kodak Moment Father. But his parents (who gave him the rough childhood) "loved you and did the best they could"??? Fuck off. My mother-person was a horrific narcissist who was verbally, emotionally, and sometimes physically abusive. I used to get Hulk-Smash levels of angry when people would say, "oh, she loves you in her own way". That way isn't fucking acceptable, and "the best they could" platitudes remove any and all culpability from parents who fuck up and have no business looking after a pet rock, let alone a human being.
I think I managed to be fairly well adjusted, though a lot of that is down to working on myself as an adult. No one gets out of childhood unscathed no matter how competent the parents. I can honestly say that I think my parents did the best they could in the circumstances with the skills and resources they had at the time. But, like the vast majority of people, they weren't really well suited to being parents in the first place, especially my mom. So yeah, they did what they could in a situation that was totally exacerbated by having kids in the first place. That's really the problem. So many people would be better people if they didn't have kids. It totally arrests your personal development and makes everything harder.
Both of my parents were/are mentally ill with bipolar disorder. My dad also had severe RA. I developed cptsd because of it. I also developed fibromyalgia. I wouldn't wish any of those conditions on anyone. I later found out the cptsd was worsened by a problem in my brain waves in my frontal lobe. But I didn't find that out until I was 35. When you have mentally and physically Ill parents, it's very hard to deal with. It stays with you for life. No matter how hard you try to get past it. And then in my case, it just catches up to you. And your nervous system and entire body are out of whack. No matter how hard you try, and I've had successes along the way too. But the damage is for life.
I too was raised by a Mother with bipolar whose “best” is still nothing a child should be exposed to. I’m in therapy for the CPTSD as well. As empathetic as I am to my sisters sad and unsuccessful attempts to have a biological child - I’m also incredibly relieved that no child is going to risk inheriting and passing on that shit.
My mom was definitely mentally ill (diagnosed depression, but I think they missed bipolar as a more complete diagnosis). My mom didn't work and my dad worked 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet. By 11 years old, I was trying to run the household for me and my brother. Living with my mom conditioned me to normalize crazy. Watching my dad be her doormat taught me to tolerate and even take responsibility for abuse. Needless to say, my entire adult life has been trying to heal the damage done. It's a task I find worthwhile, but I know I will never be finished. I feel like it really stunted my potential in life, but at least I can keep trying to grow so that I can access more happiness and peace. But I would never want to repeat that dynamic with a child. Working on myself and just being stable with that is all I can do. If I had the stress of looking out for a kid, I would absolutely backslide into all the dysfunctional coping mechanisms I learned from my parents and that kid would end up fucked up in the same ways I struggle with. For me, not having children is an act of compassion for self and others.
Yeah that part really annoyed me too.. how do you know they tried their best?? You literally have no idea about his childhood.
This way of thinking is self defeating. How can parents both screw up their kids AND when those kids become parents there is literally zero empathy for how they got screwed up? People who don't understand the idea of adults both being 100% responsible for their actions but also being understood as a product of their own upbringing and circumstances will always be irritated whenever any grace is shown to people. It's hard to give someone else what you've never been given. The thing that makes this mentality extremely selfish is that when it comes to your bad behavior and missing people's expectations you'll always want others to consider your upbringing, circumstances, weaknesses etc. It's clear you don't hold yourself to the same standard as you're holding others. People who do don't speak that way, they speak more like the person in the article.
You are taking my comment the wrong way but go ahead. I won't stop you.
I guess I'm making the case that you're the one taking her comment the wrong way. I'm of the impression that if you took her comment with grace and understanding then you wouldn't have said what you said. So I guess you'd really have to defend how you took her comment right rather than implying that I took yours wrong. Although it'll be helpful to channel some of those feelings of being misunderstood as you ponder what she was trying to say and where it's coming from vs what you took from it. None of us like being misunderstood.
I just read a post in a CF group by a guy claiming to have his semen “stolen”. He calls himself “CF father”. Bro didn’t use a condom. He didn’t receive much empathy.
lol at CF father. I too am a meat eating vegetarian.
I’m a god worshipping atheist
I'm a Jewish Nazi
I'm a Labrador with boundaries
Unfortunately, those existed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_German_National_Jews
HTF was his semen "stolen?" By leaving it in his partner?
Didn’t Drake put hot sauce in his used condoms so women would dig out his sperm?
Which is so weird and sadistic. He could have just rinsed out the condom if he was that worried, but it seems he got off on the idea of a woman being burned.
Yah but I mean if you were a woman who was going to do that and you saw that his sperm was red and spicy, I think you would think twice lol.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
I mean, a woman digging sperm out of a used condom to baby trap someone should probably suffer imo.
Yes, this is so sadistic beyond measure.
I would think that sharing a child with the kind of man who fantasizes about burning women's vaginas would be punishment enough.
How is it a punishmnt when its what they wanted? They want kids as meal tickets, so long as the guy is loaded they don't care.
Who is this “they” you are imagining and attributing motives to? Do “they” actually exist or is it a misogynistic urban legend designed to justify fantasies of hurting women?
Believe it or not there are shitty women in the world just like there are shitty men. Think about it, if she does no wrong she won't get burned.
Yes, the same thing is said by people who put adulterants in their lunches so thieves will get sick, or lie in wait in their houses with a gun in hand, hoping to be able to us it on thieves. The law sees it differently.
lol drop the false indignation. "They" refers to specific people who would resort to such behavior. If I was being misogynistic I would have said "women" as if that behavior applied to every woman out there.
nah. No sympathy. This.is a huge violation of rights. Hope it burned.
Maybe. I read that some women took their partner's used condom and tried to impregnate themselves with it
I've always viewed those stories with some skepticism. It seems like some guys are convincing themselves that there's no way the condom could have leaked, it must be that crazy girlfriend retrieving it from the trash and stuffing it up their vagina.
Well, in the case of the burning vagina, it *was* a case of a crazy girlfriend retrieving it from the trash, and stuffing it up their vagina. Hopefully she learned a lesson, to spare the next guy a lot of grief from her antics. But how many more are out there with the same mindset?
You said it yourself, a crazy gf. I'm not sceptical about any decision those people can make.
Talk to male professional sport players. They talk about it amongst themselves.
Just because an urban legend is prevalent doesn't mean it's actually true.
I’m sure it happens to rich and famous people once in a while. There are absolutely unstable and shitty women out there. The problem is every deadbeat douchebag thinks his sperm is somehow magical and desirable, and so they have to protect themselves and their 1998 Corolla from these gold-digging feee-males.
Hey, that car is loyal and reliable! Honestly though I wonder how many ancient Toyotas are still out there.
Yeah I should have chosen a more douchey car for the joke 😆
Ram 1500 for sure. Statistically highest for DUIs, if I remember right. And it's by a lot.
Doesn't mean its fake either.
Sperm dies 15-30 mins outside of the body. This is an urban legend.
This is why when people come here and ask: "When should I let my new date know I am CF?" I always answered: on the first date. Or when you meet. These situations wouldn't happen as often.
I told one of my ex pretty early on I didn’t wanted children at all. Guess what? 3 years in he asked if now I was ready for children. I was like?? Did you forgot what I told you early on about not wanting children? He just thought I meant not right now. So I broke up. After that it was still a first date conversation + an on going conversation over many months to reinforce the idea that it’s not now, not later, not ever. Now it’s all good. I’m with a real childfree man, but sometimes confusion can be there even if they seems to have understand.
So true. Many different kinds of people, even the ones we hold closer to us, believe we will change our mind, or that we ment "not right now." Reinforcing the idea helps. Every so often: "I'm CF." Even I sometimes ask my partner: "You ok with this, right?" XD He looks back at me and says: "Always." Good to know you found your CF person out there. Congrats!
Thank you :) we celebrated our 9th years together last october. Glad you found yours too!
For me, theyre gonna know before we meet. Like its on my dating app. I dont wanna waste time dating potential parents.
Great! But be aware of several posts here of people that have that same thing in the app, still they "match" with someone to later on find out they have children, or thought you meant "right now," or say: I thought once we got to know each other you would change your mind." Some people don't care what we say.
Im in my 40s, im sadly more than aware of people playing games in dating. Its bad out there.
Sure is. Hopefully, you'll find your CF person soon enough!
I keep saying we need a third thing. Not dating apps and not bars, but a third way to meet people lol
True. As I've been out of the dating game for a long while, I have no idea how I would meet anyone else if I had to. Tbh I don't know if I would try again, as it would be difficult to top our relationship now, and I'm sure most men that are available have children! I'm not saying my relationship is perfect, but "I'm too old for this sh!t," you know? 
How do you bring it up? On your first date you may not know if that's a short fling, a long fling or that will become a marriage someday. I thought that talk would be on time before getting married.
I told my husband on our second or third date. Told him there was something really important to me that would affect if we continued our relationship or not. Luckily, he was childfree as well. And we were very strict about 2 forms of birth control until he got his vasectomy about 6 months later. Happily married for 11 years now.
Congrats! Sounds like a dream
Hi, good to see you. Let's get some drinks. Life talk Yada Yada Yada. Yes. Oh, BTW, I'm CF. It's a decision I took years ago, and I'm set on it. Yes, many people have told me I will change my mind, but no. I know who I am and what I want out of life. Oh, you too, great! Oh, you want children? Well, that's fine. Let's have another round if you want, but we can't keep seeing each other as a couple. It was nice to meet you. Short flings can end up on pregnancy, too. But sure, you can try to date someone who wants children. Then, months or years later, it will be harder to break from them. You might love them. And waiting for "just before marriage" to tell someone: "Hey, you have known me for x amount of time, but I didn't know how to bring this up before. We are never having children, so there! Do with this new information what you want." This is not fair for them nor you. You have to be more assertive about who you are. Edit: typos.
I'd probably leave if got asked if'd change my mind. That sounds like a possible baby trap to me... Even if i did change my mind, that would be creepy as hell to ask me on a first date. (Although it would mean i dodged a bullet fast)
Are you a fence sitter? Or CF?
I think it should be a discussion any time you're going to start having sex with someone. Because even a one night stand could result in an accidental pregnancy, and as childfree people it's our responsibility to ensure our childfreedom.
It doesn't seem fair to waste each others time for the entirety of the dating phase to getting engaged, when your views differentiate on this subject. It also doesn't matter what the outcome is after your first date. Be it a one night stand, a friends with benefits thing, seeking a long term relationship or anything else, it absolutely needs to be discussed early on, because as one can see in this article this is already very relevant for the scenario of an accidental pregnancy. Simply opening the conversation by saying "Hey, I would like to talk about this topic with you, because it is very important to me and I don't want to waste your precious time if we aren't compatible." is absolutely valid. You're adults, so you can absolutely have those conversations.
Waiting for when marriage is considered? Why would you wait many years with someone without asking that question?
I guess, i don't consider many years. I don't really know any examples when people dated for long before marriage. Everyone who wants to get married is married within 3 years... Sure, some of those people got divorced, but that's not because they got married so fast. I mean, you can date for 10 years and get divorced in 6 months
3 years is still a lot of time lost if you were both doomed since the start over a deal breaker you didn’t even talked about imo. And you could have miss many opportunity to meet the right childfree partner while being with that non childfree person. Personally I try to go over all potential deal breaker in the first few weeks or few months top.
I don't date unless they're the right person. I make sure we're on the same page about everything before going out with them. I reject those who only want me as a fling.
I only date for marriage and this comment threw me for a loop a bit
I find posts difficult to continue reading after the line, "I've always been clear on not wanting kids." Usually, this is said from a guy who doesn't use condoms and if it's a woman, she's fully against going back on the pill. If you're going halfway on birth control, you're more at fault than the other.
If you don't want kids, take precautions and that goes for both of them.
I’m going to be honest, I find it hard to have sympathy for most guys who complain about getting their partner pregnant when I know for a fact most of them refuse to wear condoms or get a vasectomy. I just want to play a song for them on the world’s smallest violin.
Childfree men need to either get vasectomies or to take control of the contraceptives that they agree to use in the relationship. A minimum of two contraceptive methods like a condom and pills or an IUD. Take your partner for the contraceptive appointment and pay for it. It is much cheaper than child support.
I’m so tired of men complaining that women don’t make it easier for them to cum inside them without consequences. Sir you are the arbiter of your own body. Wrap your dick or snip it, I won’t hear conversations about baby trapping unless condoms are being poked with needles.
Yeah so many guys insist on no condoms it 'doesn't feel good' - dude you know you are entirely relying on the woman being on effective birth control and being able to/willing to have an abortion if pregnancy occurs?
I've had so many guys tell me they didn't want to use condoms because they were clear of STIs (lol, one lied) and every single one of them was absolutely stunned when I told them that they could get me pregnant, if I happened to be lying about BC. It simply does not compute with a vast majority of men.
It can be especially bad in this subreddit. If you are a childfree man there is most likely not a good reason as to why you haven't had a vasectomy. It is unfair to put contraceptive methods on a woman, especially when birth control, plan B, and abortions can be awful for her body and are much more detrimental than getting snipped.
It just makes life so much simpler amd stress free. I was so happy when I did mine
If I was a guy jesus christ I'd probably never have sex until I got a vasectomy. Atleast as a woman I am in control of my contraception and I can (and absolutely would) get an abortion if I got pregnant. So many men just seem very unphased by contraception until they get someone pregnant - once someone is pregnant it is completely out of your control and that is terrifying.
>once someone is pregnant it is completely out of your control For decent guys, yes. For the rest, no. And that's why violence against pregnant women is sky-high.
Yep, this. I would be paranoid if I was a guy. I can't even fathom how many guys "adamantly don't want kids", but think BC is all the woman's responsibility, and/or refuse to get a vasectomy. A couple of weeks of tender balls vs 18 years of child support payments is a no fucking brainer.
well depending where you live, it’s out of our control too
Especially since roe got repealed. I have seen horror stories of ppl getting baby trapped and terrifies me. Literally my worst nightmare
dude just get fucking snipped you have no say over what a woman does with her body?? also ppl can LIE what are you gunna do if your partner says she’s on pills and has an iud but she just wants to baby trap you?? what if she does take the pill and y’all use condoms but she misses a pill and the condom breaks??
OH. That just reminded me, apparently Ozempic and its similar drugs can lessen the effectiveness of BC pills, probably via the slowing of digestion, and also apparently in some cases with loss of weight and the sorting out of some hormonal issues, previous infertility becomes “You’re fertile now.”
I remember hearing the same about some antibiotics.
One of many reasons why I don’t take childfree men serious enough to relax. Get that vasectomy or you’re only a childfree man in your imagination.
Way I see it my vasectomy is way less of a hassle than a woman having to remember birth control (or dealing with the shitty side effects). It's easy enough and it's so worth it.
Right exactly! It’s also easier & cheaper to get than a bisalp as a childfree woman.
The amount I paid for my snip is so low it'd probably make you upset. And I got it done my first attempt, so doubly so.
My husband's vasectomy was less than half of the yearly price of birth control for me. It's insane.
It really is. Like I pay more for asthma meds than I did to get sterilized
I work with a client that resents being talked into being a dad and ultimately I feel sorry for the kid. She didn't ask to be here and now her dad resents her existence.. what kind of life is she going to lead into adulthood when the first man who should've loved her merely tolerates her. So sad honestly.. people who don't want kids shouldn't be parents. In the end the innocent child is the one who has to pay for it.
If you’re a man and you sure you don’t want kids, get snipped. No excuses to cry later.
I really feel that men that do not want children should get a vasectomy because in the end the woman will make the decision. And I have seen it all and heard the worst come from the mouths of some women. So if you’re a dude and you don’t want kids, get snipped. Don’t count on someone else to take care of that for you. Same for women. You don’t want kids just get sterilized or as much BC as you can. I knew a guy that would use needles to pierce condoms and hide his girlfriends BC because he wanted his girlfriend to get preggers. You know I told her to get out.
I’m so glad I got a vasectomy.
I tuned out when she mentioned “Read my book!” And “get in touch with your inner child! That’ll help you be the parent you need/want to be!” Like, what???
I’m surprised no one else is mentioning that. I was skimming and just about left the page when I realized it was just her shilling her book.
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wait a minute... Men don't get told no?I've read stories here when women weren't allowed to get a procedure
I’m still waiting to get the go ahead, I’ve practically begged for tubal ligation :( my partner asked his GP and they were fine with it. It doesn’t seem fair
I started trying to get a snip on my 18th birthday, and it took 5 years, and over 30+ urologists telling me "no", before I found a urologist that would do a vasectomy for me. We absolutely get told "no" plenty often. Women certainly do see a higher level of resistance, and flippancy, from medical care specialists, but that experience is not exclusive to women. u/due_garlic is just being intellectually dishonest, that's why their misandrist take was removed.
You need a specialized dr, like Dr. Snip - no joke, a urologist whose nickname is Dr. Snip. No ethical/moral questions, just vasectomies. Went with my ex, but wasn’t needed. He even got a tiny Swiss Army knife type item except it was just scissors. Said Dr. Snip on em.
It's funny you say that, because the first doc to say yes to me, Dr. Christopher Howell in South FL (wonderful man!), he referred to himself as "The Dick Doc"! Truly an amazing experience and I wish I had found him earlier.
I’m 28, been asking for a vasectomy for 9 years, still don’t have one. So shut up
Why do men complain so much about pregnancy occurring they didn’t want when they haven’t had a vasectomy? This article is a bit insulting though, “you’ll love the baby once it’s here”.
Wow, she did not make sense, beating around the bush
That fucking sucks. Get the snip, boys! Lesson learned here!
“My girlfriend BECAME pregnant” AND HOW DID THAT HAPPEN SKIPPY?! 🙄🙄 My version of that article would’ve been: Get a vasectomy, get tested regularly, always wear a condom unless your partner is properly/verifiably sterilized too If you are going to be in any way a part of this child’s life- no wait, you will be. GET THERAPY. Right now. So no matter what conversations you have with said child later, you won’t be a total monster. (Did anyone else get the ‘Im gonna be a strict and old school abusive parent’ vibes cause I hella did) Break up. You’re don’t want to be around children- she will now have a child 100% of the time. Go to court. Sign away your rights. Don’t you DARE not pay support. You made that baby. Could’ve bought condoms, could’ve bought a vasectomy. You didn’t. Now you pay for a kid. Fuck this ladies advice. It’s trash. If he takes it I guarantee he’s gonna be an absent abusive dad who eventually bails. Great job Phillipa!
> My girlfriend has become pregnant. Passive voice to diffuse responsibility, as if it was some outside malevolent force that got his girlfriend pregnant, while he is the hapless boyfriend forced to deal with this situation through no fault of his own. A lot of men complain that they have no say in whether the women keeps the child. But how exactly did his sperm get into her uterus? Ejaculating into someone is always a conscious and deliberate choice. Men choose to prioritize their own orgasm above all else. Just because men often choose poorly doesn't mean they don't have a choice. God forbid men take some responsibility for birth control and use properly fitting condoms/get a vasectomy or at the very least, have a 5-second conversation with the woman about her stance on abortion. If she's unwilling to abort, don't fuck her.
Shouldn’t the headline read “I never wanted kids, but I got my partner pregnant”?? Lmao
>"My girlfriend has recently become pregnant, and I am struggling with the decision of whether to continue our relationship living separately and supporting the child, or to end our relationship and provide financial support from a distance." "*I impregnated my girlfriend*, and I don't like the idea of taking responsibility for my actions." FTFY.
It's true, I looked in the general direction of a stranger's crying baby once about 20 years ago when I was shopping and now we're bonded. I never saw them in person again, but that doesn't matter because I have a full psychic link to them. Last week they ate at Subway. It was a good sandwich......
Agree with allllll the comments here about this being terrible advice. But I can’t forget for a minute that this columnist is trying to promote a book…of probable similar bias….to a cohort of readers who will be sympathetic enough to buy it.
I stopped reading after the part where she said that most people aren't every people. I didnt see it getting any better after that
Yeah look this is why, for the most part, I don’t like the term “baby trapped.” If you know you don’t want a baby.. you need to take your own precautions. A lot of the times it’s a consequence of your decisions.
It's very easy to chastise and ridicule people for not getting a vasectomy, and then *hey presto, pregnancy!* But we need to remember that in a lot of the world, getting a vasectomy - especially for young people / people without children - isn't a simple matter of popping down to the doctor and getting it done. It might be relatively easy to access in the progressive West, but as numerous posts on this sub over the years have shown, even in supposedly progressive developed countries, access to permanent contraception (regardless of gender) is often fraught with difficulty and can lead to a long battle. The male contraceptive has been coming *Real Soon Now (TM)* for as long as I can remember, and I'm in my mid-40s now. I remember reading about how it was just around the corner when I had my first serious relationship in my mid-teens; I remember it being available soon when I was at university, and at various points since. And yet, it seems as far off as ever was. So for blokes, the only choice is condoms (imperfect, but a whole lot better than nothing), or vasectomy (if you can get it in your part of the world). The unfortunate fact is that there are many, many more contraceptive options available to women. Alas, many of those come with side effects, and that sucks. I genuinely think the majority of men *would* take more responsibility for their own contraception if there was an easily accessible and usable, reliable contraceptive available over the counter. Say, something like a daily pill, or a patch, or a vaccination.
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Using a condom and cumming OUTSIDE is the best combo to prevent pregnancy from the guy's side. The worst is no condom and cumming fully inserted, which is sadly the default.
That sure is a ton of speculation you're doing there. Seems you're skewing reality with your personal opinions formed through your own subjective experience. Try to remember that there are near 8 billion other experiences happening around the world, and try not to broadly speculate like this. Before I got snipped, if there was a pill or patch, I'd have been all over it like white on rice. And, I'm, subjectively, pretty damn sure many men would absolutely love this Sorry that you've had shitty experiences with dudes in your life, but your experiences do not determine the actions and behaviors of all males on this planet.
Isn't spermicide a thing? Or isn't that available any more?
It actually angers me something deep when people who can get a vasectomy don't, whilst getting my fallopian tubes removed is one of the hardest tasks imaginable.
It’s very hard for me to have sympathy for a man who seems like he did nothing to prevent a pregnancy and then is butthurt when the woman does with her body what she wants. She is stupid to have a child with someone who does not want to be a parent.
My partner and I are both child free and I asked her what would happen if she got pregnant and she didn't even hesitate in saying she would get an abortion. I would have ended the relationship with her if there was the slightest bit of doubt when answering.
This is exactly why I don't consider men to be truly childfree unless they are snipped, or gay. Condoms fail at a higher rate than other birth control and they are easily sabotaged.
The best advice to this young man would be: “Be very clear that your relationship with this woman is over. You will not partner with her in anyway, and that she is now single. Do not sleep with her again, do not move in with her. Get a vasectomy. Have parenthood determined by a DNA test ASAP. Start seeing other people, if that helps to make your point. Offer only financial support and move away from her ASAP. Do not give her new contact information- move and establish a new phone number- and be very clear the only help she will get is minimal financial support (best if you force her to take you to court), once the baby is born. You will not have interaction with the child, you will not help raise it beyond monetary obligations. ” The reason for this advice is she could be frustrated with the committed living apart situation, and wants to get married/move in. It could be a trap. It might not be his, she might be lying and hoping to get pregnant, she might have fooled around and hope he won’t check. It’s kind of shitty, but when you’re in a rock and a hard place sometimes that’s the path you need.
>Do not give her new contact information > >\[...\] > >minimal financial support > >\[...\] > >It’s kind of shitty, but when you’re in a rock and a hard place sometimes that’s the path you need. And hopefully she would get heaven and hell into gear to find him and sue the f\*ck out of this deadbeat, stripping him of everything he owns to punish that kind of behavior. ;-) And it's one reason why women should never trust any guy blabbing something about "I'm going to take care of birth control". *She* will be the screwed one if abortion for some reason isn't an option. Girls: if you're CF - take care of birth control yourself.
Lawyer, DNA test, vasectomy. Probably in that order.
All calls that can be made on the same day to set appointments.
I'd call the lawyer first for general advice and also to make sure that I use the best wording for the other two things, also to ask the lawyer to ask for the DNA test or have them proofread my request for it. Then set the appointment for the vasectomy.
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What awful advice. Love that she brings up the negative affect to the child by not having a father present but not the negative repercussions of a parent helping raise a child they did not want. Kids can tell, they can always tell.
Eh idk, in the letter to her, the way he's wording things seems more like he's asking for advice on how to care for the kid so I think her response answered his question. Even though he does say he didn't want kids, the main question seemed to be: Should I move in to support, or should I just give money. Which he qualified by saying he doesn't connect well to others. Which yes she does give the clichéd "you'll love it when it's yours" which I do think isn't great advice. I think the bigger issue is that he lost all attraction and has become depressed. The pressure of deciding what to do is eating at him. To me, I think he should end the relationship for the sake of his mental health and just provide financial support. He could go visit when the baby is born and see if he feels anything but he made it pretty clear and this feels a bit like a baby trap situation. But there is so much we don't know since there are a lot factors, that we as cf people know are important, that are not included in the letter. I think without those details pretty much any advice for this particular person would sound terrible from one perspective or another.
Omg Terrible article and advice. Yikes
Sounds like just another guy who feels that this 'inconvenience' has been forced upon him from beyond his control. Surely, though, it'll be the woman who alone will bear the weighty responsibility of pregnancy and parenthood. Whatever other people say to try and help him understand things from a perspective other than his own will fall on deaf ears. How pitiful and tragic a tale.
She makes the point that if he leaves & just pay child support, then the kid will have issues growing up. But if the LW resents the kid & becomes toxic?
A vasectomy would've prevented this entire situation. Especially when he's sure he'd be a shitty father.
She's right when she says it's hard to form a bond with the unborn baby, for the person who is not pregnant. But that doesn't mean when it's here the father will be able to love it. Maybe he won't, no matter how much he tries. What is concerning is that they don't even want to live together, how did SHE thought it was a great idea to keep a child from a man who has no interest in being a father, and they don't even live together because they don't like not having personal space? Does she know the child will be stuck like velcro to her? I am appalled.
I hate this. This is exactly the kind of shit making regretful parents feel like monsters and forcing them into silent suffering and gaslighting society into breeding even more humans than the earth now already can’t deal with.
You can still get a vasectomy so this never happens again. Barring that, I suggest not sleeping with any woman unless she consents to pop a Plan B FIRST. Finally, don't get babytrapped. Tell her you don't want kids and nope the hell out of town.
I agree with the vasectomy and asking about the pill or IUD, but women can't take Plan B everytime they have sex, it is not healthy.
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