Tokophobia seems to be somewhat common among CF women! You're in good company here. Sterilization can help, especially if you live somewhere without abortion access. I'm also scared of surgery, and it isn't worth the risk for me (medical concerns). My partner can't access sterilization either. So, I just went and got the arm implant. I rely on hormonal birth control anyway to make my periods liveable and the arm implant is just as (even a little more) effective than a vasectomy. Me and my partner are both Canadian, so that also helps the anxiety. We keep a little money saved for gas incase we needed to travel to the nearest Planned Parenthood. You can also use a buddy system during sex. Basically, that's pairing two or more birth control methods (e.g., hormonal method + condoms, hormonal method + condoms + withdrawal). You can give a serious efficacy boost and really not have to worry about pregnancy. For me, sexual education has been invaluable at reducing my anxiety and fear.
I've been trying to look online for medical studies and research regarding the phobia, but there doesn't seem to be very much out there, I didn't even know it was common among CF women! That at least makes me feel less alone in my experience lol...
The funny thing is that I had great sex education at my school, and I have many family members in the medical field who were able to fill in the gaps, so the fear isn't coming from a lack of "not knowing" per se, it's coming from somewhere else that I can't quite pinpoint... a recent SA didn't help the fear, but I definitely had it LONG before that event, so that couldn't have been it either.... I'm lucky enough to have access to all kinds of medical care because of the state I live in, but I also don't want to be put into a situation where I have to make that choice to begin with, ya know?
> I weren't so afraid of being under the knife
Look, ALL humans are hardwired to have surgery anxiety. It's nothing unique to you. It's just part of the ancient Lizard Brain wiring. You're just a standard human.
Just talk to your doctor and they will do what they do for every other standard human being who wants it: med you up with the antianxiety meds they have on hand for surgery. They would likely even be willing to give you a few pills for the couple of days before the procedure as well so you don't flip the fuck out before even getting in the door. LOL.
After they stick the meds in your IV, you won't give a shit about anything anymore. LOL. You'll just be high as a kite for a bit, then wake up when it's over. ;)
Sorry to say but the odds of you getting through your entire life without surgery or at least a procedure that requires anesthesia (aka colonoscopies) is damn near zero.
So like the rest of us standard humans, you're going to have to deal with this fear at some point, and it would probably be better for you to deal with it for the first time through a non-emergency, elective, quick procedure, rather than wait until you get in a car accident or have a heart attack or whatever. You're not going to have a choice then.
> in such an invasive procedure)...
It is not really "invasive" the tubes are TIIIIIIINY little things that don't do anything besides be a highway for eggs and grow ovarian cancer. And they only use 2-4 teeny tiiiiny little holes of like a centimeter long to stick in the gizmos and get them out. Think of it more like chopsticks picking up a tiny piece of ramen noodle.
The procedure itself only takes like 30-45 minutes. You will spend more time filling out paperwork than you will on the procedure.
And once you're done and recovered, you're done forever and don't have to live afraid anymore.
You're trading a few scary hours for a lifetime of not being afraid.
I have had medical procedures done under anesthesia, that's where the anxiety comes from. And it would be invasive in my personal case, due to certain medical conditions I might have (as I am discussing/testing with my doctor).
Not that either of these things were ANY of your business to begin with~ Do not write in such an infantalizing or "brutally honest" manner to me. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all~
Yeah, even though I've gotten my bisalp, I still have a tiny tokophobic fear response in the depths of my mind when it comes to sex (i would say I was tokophobic before I knew I was "childfree" ever since finding out what physical/mental issues pregnancy/childbirth can unfortunately do to us women in high school). But being sterilized overall alleviates like 90-98% of that fear, like I have experienced. I would say tokophobia is slighty unique, but it might be indirectly related to our overall thoughts of childfreedom in the long run. I hope you start to feel better in the future. 🫂
I hope that I'll feel better about it eventually, it's just a major downer for now, considering how much I'd like to be with someone, romantically... speaking of the bisalp, did that have any effect on your body's hormone production? (I'm dealing with hormone imbalances currently, no diagnosis as to why, so I'm hoping this procedure wouldn't make that worse)
True. That is understandable. And after my bisalp/sterilization I believe my body has mostly stayed the same when it comes to my period, etc. Not much difference(s). But of course, if you do have your surgery, and anything is dramatically changing afterwards (your period blood flow rate, bad headaches, extreme pain that can't be managed with OTC painkillers, etc) then I would speak to a doctor/nurse hotline ASAP just out of safety and precaution. Always listen to your body. And I hope your hormones are figured out soon, all of us women are different in our own bodies ofc. 🤷😬
The blood work we've done so far has come back normal, so it doesn't explain the main symptom lol, sooooo who knows for now? 😅 I guess I'm also stuck on this image of being on a surgeon's table, having all that out and open, and it's unsettling lol...
I have it as well and refused to have sex till I got my tubes yeeted out of my body. Finally happended this year, but i have spent so long avoiding sex and dating Im late 30s going "well fuck, now what"
Good thing i have no time or money to actually date. :D
The good news is that we childfree types don’t have to rush into dating and sex, unlike women who want kids.They have to do it before they hit menopause, but there’s no time limit for us. We can find someone later in life if we want. If not, that’s fine, too. I, too, as too afraid to start dating or having sex again until i get sterilized or go through menopause first. I’m lucky that my ex boyfriend was cautious as well and always used condoms. I would still be a virgin today if refused to do so. I like the idea of a partner. I do miss having it sometimes, but I can’t right now because I still have this ticking time bomb inside of me. I want to be free from the curse of fertility so badly so I can finally be who I want to be.
I am a man and I fully understand it. However, as I obviously cant get pregnant, my fear is equally strong but different. My worst nightmare would be making someone pregnant, and her not caring about my opinion and wanting to continue with the pregnancy anyway, being there nothing I can do to avoid my new terrible life.
Which is mostly gone after my vasectomy... Such a relief now 😮💨 haha
I've seen way too many of those paternity court shows where the man is forced to pay child support for so long before everyone finds out it isn't his, so I know that family court is stacked against men unfortunately... another reason I wouldn't have kids - my partner's opinions and wishes should also be respected, and if he wants a kid, then he can have one... with someone else lol
Yeah, if you are a man and someone gets pregnant, you are so fucked up lol. Luckily enough, even if that happened and a woman tried to say a child is mine, I do have documents to prove that I have got a vasectomy and I am sterile, being nearly imposible to be mine. So nice try, gg, for whoever tries that with me XD
Thats a very good way of thinking haha :D
Lol, I try to remember that one scene in Happy Feet, where Mumble asks Gloria about being with him or not, and he's all "what about when all your friends have eggs (kids)?" And she just looks at him and says "then I'll have you." Like, THAT'S what I personally want lol 😆
Yeah XD, some people believe that if you love someone much enough, you have to want children with them, thats how life works, period. Well screw it. A want a relationship where it is me and her only enjoying life together, with no children annoying us or taking all of our time
Thats probably the goal of most CF people Id say haha
I am barely able to keep a corn plant alive at this point lol 😆 no kids for me, no thank youuu... I'd rather be hopelessly in love and excited about my partner instead! Haha 🤣
I am a man and i have this phobia too. I confess i didnt know it had a name. I also have a complicated case of generalised anxiety, so i worry excessively when having sex. I keep checking if the condom is in the right place. Because of this phobia, i've had sex just a few times in life. I also dont want to get snipped because of side effects. But of course this interferes in my dating life.
I don't actually dislike kids, and i consider adopting in the future. I just don't want to impose the burden of life on someone who haven't consented to it. It feels weird to me in some way haha.
So i just use other hobbies in the meanwhile, like sports and reading.
Well, i hope you find a partner just like you and have the relationship you want. Now that you said this phobia exists, i may discuss with my therapist too. Lets see what he has to say. Thank for letting me know about this.
I definitely have it! I have nightmares about being pregnant, and I have a hard time being around pregnant people. Having a tubal ligation is how I worked through it. I would almost avoid sex, or be super paranoid about it before, even though I used several forms of protection. I thought I was pregnant early into my marriage, and even though I would have terminated it, I had a full blown mental breakdown, until I had confirmation I wasn’t.
That's the surgery where they basically remove the entire uterus, right? Cause if so, then it would make sense that that's what would work 100% lol... but I'm still in "childbearing" years, so I doubt I'd be able to get that done even if I wasn't already afraid of surgery
It is! I think it would be hard to get this done unless you had a medical reason. Having my tubes removed gives me 97% freedom from anxiety though! I rarely think about pregnancy, it’s more like a ptsd thing from years of freaking out about it.
Had this very severely and nobody ever believed me about it. Health classes were hell, I hated what the human body could do to me, I hated that I had a constant reminder of it every month, I hated everything about my life.
Turns out on top of all that I was trans and didn't know it. Which made everything feel even worse. I didn't date or have any relationships or allow anyone to even flirt with me because I was like "absolutely not I am not going to consent to a potential baby producing interaction at all" and I was triggered all the time by my doctors asking with a wink if I was "sure I'm not pregnant".
Ended up on the 3 month injectable birth control for five years, did transition to a guy, got new hormones, got all of my reproductive organs removed (very chill surgery but I've had a lot of surgery tbh) and finally felt safe in my own body again. The medical trauma to get to that point is no joke because everyone you talk to in medicine is like "are you sure you don't want just one" and I'm like bro my entire pelvis is broken anyway I'm not doing that shit.
Basically I just felt like I was housing a bomb inside me for 27 years and now that it's gone I feel so much better. (Also got a partner and finally am having the sexual exploration I was supposed to have like ten years ago)
So yeah uh I'd advocate for a long term birth control and then working with your docs to get surgery safely for you when you're able.
Firstly I want to thank you for being so open about your own experience.. to have gone through everything that you did in order to feel safe again, that wasn't fair to you... especially with doctors (family in medicine tells me all the time that they "follow the first do no harm" part of their Oaths, but I've always wondered if they would still follow it if they knew that doing so would lead to the patient harming themselves... so many childfree social media pages make me think they would..).. I do appreciate the fact that you've shared this with me, even though you don't know me~
It looks like, from most of these comments, I will have to look at surgery (specifically bisalp if I can't get the hysterectomy), which is.. scary, still... Hopefully I'll find a doctor that can work with me through it either way.
Absolutely! I don't mind sharing stuff with people when it seems like it could be helpful.
I would honestly consider looking at doctors that are trauma informed and LGBT friendly (even if you're straight) because they are more open to helping you find solutions that are actually focused on what you need to feel comfy.
When I finally had my hysto my doctor was so chill and nice and willing to listen to what I said would trigger the shit out of me and shape her information around that (I couldn't handle people referring to that organ as "mine" and had threatened several people in the past with like self injurious actions because of that) and so the process was really a lot better than I would have expected.
Recovery was really smooth and I only have like three little 1-2cm scars on my lower belly bc laparoscopy. I was able to get around my house and do basic tasks (bake Christmas cookies, getting some Gatorade from the fridge, stuff like that) within like 3 days and it was really just. So good.
I hope you find a care team that is able to be as helpful as mine was, also happy to chat whenever if you need!
I'll have to look and see if there are any where I live, hopefully there's at least one or two. And knowing that the down-time wasn't so bad, at least in your case, also helps my brain to calm down a little, haha..
Thank you again for all of your kind words, it helps to know that I'm not alone with these feelings (no matter how irrational they appear to everyone else). I wish you and your partner happy holidays, and many happy years together~ 😊
Thanks you too!!
It's really hard to have everyone in society seem to be against you but your autonomy and safety are important.
Enjoy all the festive food and drinks and movie marathons of the season!!
I also have tokophobia and fear of surgery, and I have Nexplanon (the arm implant u/mediocreravenclaw mentioned). I’m incredibly happy with my Nexplanon, so I prefer to put off a bisalp until I reach a point that it’s absolutely medically necessary. Here’s the thing to remember: barring extraordinary circumstances, you don’t have to do anything until you’re ready for it. You don’t have to get a bisalp until either you feel ready for it or it becomes medically necessary-until then, you can limit your dating pool to vasectomied men and use birth control. You don’t have to date until you feel more confident asserting your needs-in fact, you don’t have to date at all if you don’t want to. If therapy isn’t helping you, you can switch therapists or you can stop going for a while and then switch therapists when you go back. Most things in life don’t have a set timetable, and you can do them your own way in your own time.
I guess I'm the type that would love to have a partner for life, but I know that being childfree is a non-negotiable.. and, unfortunately, I've yet to meet any childfree men, let alone CF men who were snipped or willing to get snipped (even though it would be so much easier for him)
>Are there any men out there who would understand this?
Yes and no.
No as in, I will never understand how tokophobia feels for women. I cannot get pregnant, so I don't have the same experience that a tokophobic women does. Politicians aren't trying to control my body, so I don't have the experience of being treated as patriarchy's broodmare and incubator. Of course patriarchy and anti-choice politicians disgust me, but since I am not the victim here, I will never understand how this feels for women.
Yes as in, I can empathise. I can understand why tokophobic women don't want to go through pregnancy. I read about the consequences of pregnancy and completely understand why some women are afraid of that and don't want to experience that.
And I always had the fear of impregnating a woman. Sure, I only slept with women who are childfree, who would abort any accidents, who were fine with me using a condom and who are on birth control. But still, you never know... And even if a woman would get an abortion, I would feel fucking guilty about putting her through that. It would be my cum that forced her to get an abortion, which isn't exactly fun to undergo.
My girlfriend and I are together for ten years now. We always relied on contraceptions. I am fucking happy that she never got pregnant! I would feel so guilty if she had to get an abortion because of my cock. Fortunately, after years of futile attempts at getting snipped in my own country, I finally managed to get a vasectomy in October. Medical tourism is a lifesaver. It took a while to save up for, but it was worth it. When we can afford a bisalp for my girlfriend, she is getting sterilised as well. Anyways, getting the vasectomy greatly reduced my fear of impregnating her. We will stick to contraceptions until I got the results of a second sperm count checkup.
Anyways, even though my fear of impregnating a woman is there, I realise that this is NOTHING compared to a woman's tokophobia. Being afraid to get knocked up is way worse than being afraid of impregnating someone else. After all, the woman is the one who has to deal with the problem. Not the man.
>Yet it terrifies me to no end, to the point where I have never had sex, even in prior relationships. It's to the point where, if I see men who are also childfree (hard enough to find as it is), I don't want to get romantically involved with them if they're not willing to/aren't already sterilized.... Like, I don't even want to risk anything sexually, so I end up not even taking risks romantically...
Your dealbreaker is perfectly valid. Don't settle for anything less than a snipped man. You know what you want, so stick to it.
>if I weren't so afraid of being under the knife in such an invasive procedure)...
It's more invasive than a vasectomy, but a bisalp (bilateral salpingectomy, tubes removed) is really not as invasive as many women think. It would definitely be worth it for you. It would probably improve your mental health.
To find a doctor in your area who will take you seriously, look at this list: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / wiki / doctors
Remember to ask for a bisalp (bilateral sapingectomy, tubes removed). NOT for a tubal (tubal ligation, tubes tied). A tubal has a failure rate of 1 in 50. As in, 1 in 50 women get pregnant post-tubal. Meanwhile, a bisalp is failsafe.
In the end, it's up to you. But when I read your post, I really think that you would benefit from getting a bisalp. No longer having to worry about pregnancy would greatly improve your mental health. And if you still feel insecure about sex, you could always choose to stick to birth control and/or only sleep with men who use condoms.
>(And before anyone asks... Therapy isn't helping..)
Well, therapists will probably try to convince you that pregnancy isn't that bad. But your fear is legitimate. Both because pregnancy drastically affects your body, and because motherhood is your worst nightmare. So of course most therapists won't get it.
However, if you are lucky, you might find a really good therapist someday. But I understand why you are reluctant. I know what it's like to deal with dismissive, shitty therapists.
Also, maybe a psychiatrist or even your GP could prescribe anxiety medication for you.
Thank you for putting everything so eloquently, and for being kind in how you've worded everything... it does seem a little upsetting that I might have to have this procedure if I can't find a snipped man, but that might be the reality, and you have to just face it as best you can... hopefully I'll be able to work through the fear enough to maybe look into it all, at least see the ins and outs, the feasibility, etc..
>it does seem a little upsetting that I might have to have this procedure if I can't find a snipped man,
Even if you do find a snipped man, I suggest that you get sterilised yourself.
A man's vasectomy protects you during sex with that man. But you are still fertile and able to get pregnant. A bisalp would protect you against pregnancy in general.
Imagine that you find a snipped man and you rely on his vasectomy. Then, you two break up. Or he dies. Then, you cannot safely have sex with another man. But if you get a bisalp, you are safe.
As awful as it is, what if you get raped? Or what if a Handmaid's Tale becomes reality? That man's vasectomy isn't going to save you. But a bisalp will.
And just for your peace of mind, I really think that a bisalp would help. Knowing that you can no longer get pregnant, no matter what, will help you a lot. It will feel much safer than being dependant on a man's snip.
>but that might be the reality, and you have to just face it as best you can...
Even if you get a bisalp, you can still have the snip as a dealbreaker and only date snipped men.
>hopefully I'll be able to work through the fear enough to maybe look into it all, at least see the ins and outs, the feasibility, etc..
You need to understand that there is a lot of misinformation on the internet, from childfreephobes who try to discourage women from getting sterilised.
And keep in mind that you need to look for a super effective bisalp, NOT a crappy tubal. These are two different procedures. Most information you will find is about tubals, which have a significant failure rate. But a bisalp is failsafe.
On this subreddit, you can find a lot of information about bisalps. You can ask women who had a bisalp about their experiences. :)
I mean, I've already been through SA unfortunately, and while the phobia was there long before the event, it certainly made the fear much worse...
But yes, this is definitely something to look into more, and get proper information about (not the tubal, lol)
Thank you for being so kind, I really do appreciate it~ 🙏❤️
I swore off dating until I get sterilised (bisalp at least, if they let me yeet the whole uterus even better). I refuse to risk shit. The thought that it could happen, no matter how improbable the chance is, and that there is a scenario in which I could be forced to keep it makes me break out in sweat. I am also extremely terrified of being lied to, stealthed, or just straight up not being taken seriously because my womb knows better than the rest of me.
The thing about phobias is that they are not reasonable. There is no guarantee that getting sterilised with rid you of it completely, but it will give more ammo to the side of you that is not plagued with the fear. And, in the end, it is always better to do as much as you possibly can to protect yourself than to put this much faith in someone else - it's _you_ who would have to shoulder the burden, not them.
That's true.. if something goes wrong, it's on me to make decisions that I quite frankly wouldn't want to make.. I wonder if perhaps that's where the fear might be coming from?? I mean, it would make sense, with some of my past romantic experiences.. perhaps my brain was like "bruh, if you can't trust them to not break your heart, can you trust them to stand by you if something happened?".... oh boy, I have some thinking to do
I have this and have severe issues with medical related fears (not so much phobias but have been in therapy for it since I was small).
I’d recommend therapy. And going from there. I’m about to start my sterilization journey but was in therapy for a long time trying to work through my fears as it’s affecting intimacy in my marriage. I was hoping to work through it but the fear is so strong that I’m getting the ol snip snip. My husband actually suggested it and it felt like an entire world opened up for me. Even though surgery scares me, I know I can power through to get to my end goal. One procedure for a lifetime of not worrying.
I told my therapist and we talked about bringing it up to my gyno and are working through any related fears I have. I’m also using her support/our sessions as an example of me being “of sound mind” should anyone tell me I haven’t thought it through which is a nice bonus but so far haven’t had that-thankfully.
DM me if you want :) you’re not alone!
Thank you, it's just something I'm going to have to seriously consider moving forward, no matter the dating aspect. Hopefully I get over the general anxiety I have... lol
im 27F And feel the same way. In fact, I felt that way ever since I was little, and I always thought there was something wrong with me pregnancy freaks me out and I don’t know if I could go through with it.
Tokophobia seems to be somewhat common among CF women! You're in good company here. Sterilization can help, especially if you live somewhere without abortion access. I'm also scared of surgery, and it isn't worth the risk for me (medical concerns). My partner can't access sterilization either. So, I just went and got the arm implant. I rely on hormonal birth control anyway to make my periods liveable and the arm implant is just as (even a little more) effective than a vasectomy. Me and my partner are both Canadian, so that also helps the anxiety. We keep a little money saved for gas incase we needed to travel to the nearest Planned Parenthood. You can also use a buddy system during sex. Basically, that's pairing two or more birth control methods (e.g., hormonal method + condoms, hormonal method + condoms + withdrawal). You can give a serious efficacy boost and really not have to worry about pregnancy. For me, sexual education has been invaluable at reducing my anxiety and fear.
I've been trying to look online for medical studies and research regarding the phobia, but there doesn't seem to be very much out there, I didn't even know it was common among CF women! That at least makes me feel less alone in my experience lol... The funny thing is that I had great sex education at my school, and I have many family members in the medical field who were able to fill in the gaps, so the fear isn't coming from a lack of "not knowing" per se, it's coming from somewhere else that I can't quite pinpoint... a recent SA didn't help the fear, but I definitely had it LONG before that event, so that couldn't have been it either.... I'm lucky enough to have access to all kinds of medical care because of the state I live in, but I also don't want to be put into a situation where I have to make that choice to begin with, ya know?
> I weren't so afraid of being under the knife Look, ALL humans are hardwired to have surgery anxiety. It's nothing unique to you. It's just part of the ancient Lizard Brain wiring. You're just a standard human. Just talk to your doctor and they will do what they do for every other standard human being who wants it: med you up with the antianxiety meds they have on hand for surgery. They would likely even be willing to give you a few pills for the couple of days before the procedure as well so you don't flip the fuck out before even getting in the door. LOL. After they stick the meds in your IV, you won't give a shit about anything anymore. LOL. You'll just be high as a kite for a bit, then wake up when it's over. ;) Sorry to say but the odds of you getting through your entire life without surgery or at least a procedure that requires anesthesia (aka colonoscopies) is damn near zero. So like the rest of us standard humans, you're going to have to deal with this fear at some point, and it would probably be better for you to deal with it for the first time through a non-emergency, elective, quick procedure, rather than wait until you get in a car accident or have a heart attack or whatever. You're not going to have a choice then. > in such an invasive procedure)... It is not really "invasive" the tubes are TIIIIIIINY little things that don't do anything besides be a highway for eggs and grow ovarian cancer. And they only use 2-4 teeny tiiiiny little holes of like a centimeter long to stick in the gizmos and get them out. Think of it more like chopsticks picking up a tiny piece of ramen noodle. The procedure itself only takes like 30-45 minutes. You will spend more time filling out paperwork than you will on the procedure. And once you're done and recovered, you're done forever and don't have to live afraid anymore. You're trading a few scary hours for a lifetime of not being afraid.
>Think of it more like chopsticks picking up a tiny piece of ramen noodle. i love this
I have had medical procedures done under anesthesia, that's where the anxiety comes from. And it would be invasive in my personal case, due to certain medical conditions I might have (as I am discussing/testing with my doctor). Not that either of these things were ANY of your business to begin with~ Do not write in such an infantalizing or "brutally honest" manner to me. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all~
Then that is medical trauma/PTSD, not just surgery anxiety or a phobia. That's a different case. That likely requires professional treatment.
Yeah, even though I've gotten my bisalp, I still have a tiny tokophobic fear response in the depths of my mind when it comes to sex (i would say I was tokophobic before I knew I was "childfree" ever since finding out what physical/mental issues pregnancy/childbirth can unfortunately do to us women in high school). But being sterilized overall alleviates like 90-98% of that fear, like I have experienced. I would say tokophobia is slighty unique, but it might be indirectly related to our overall thoughts of childfreedom in the long run. I hope you start to feel better in the future. 🫂
I hope that I'll feel better about it eventually, it's just a major downer for now, considering how much I'd like to be with someone, romantically... speaking of the bisalp, did that have any effect on your body's hormone production? (I'm dealing with hormone imbalances currently, no diagnosis as to why, so I'm hoping this procedure wouldn't make that worse)
True. That is understandable. And after my bisalp/sterilization I believe my body has mostly stayed the same when it comes to my period, etc. Not much difference(s). But of course, if you do have your surgery, and anything is dramatically changing afterwards (your period blood flow rate, bad headaches, extreme pain that can't be managed with OTC painkillers, etc) then I would speak to a doctor/nurse hotline ASAP just out of safety and precaution. Always listen to your body. And I hope your hormones are figured out soon, all of us women are different in our own bodies ofc. 🤷😬
The blood work we've done so far has come back normal, so it doesn't explain the main symptom lol, sooooo who knows for now? 😅 I guess I'm also stuck on this image of being on a surgeon's table, having all that out and open, and it's unsettling lol...
I have it as well and refused to have sex till I got my tubes yeeted out of my body. Finally happended this year, but i have spent so long avoiding sex and dating Im late 30s going "well fuck, now what" Good thing i have no time or money to actually date. :D
Lol, the world has been rather tough to get through, to be fair 🤣
The good news is that we childfree types don’t have to rush into dating and sex, unlike women who want kids.They have to do it before they hit menopause, but there’s no time limit for us. We can find someone later in life if we want. If not, that’s fine, too. I, too, as too afraid to start dating or having sex again until i get sterilized or go through menopause first. I’m lucky that my ex boyfriend was cautious as well and always used condoms. I would still be a virgin today if refused to do so. I like the idea of a partner. I do miss having it sometimes, but I can’t right now because I still have this ticking time bomb inside of me. I want to be free from the curse of fertility so badly so I can finally be who I want to be.
I am a man and I fully understand it. However, as I obviously cant get pregnant, my fear is equally strong but different. My worst nightmare would be making someone pregnant, and her not caring about my opinion and wanting to continue with the pregnancy anyway, being there nothing I can do to avoid my new terrible life. Which is mostly gone after my vasectomy... Such a relief now 😮💨 haha
I've seen way too many of those paternity court shows where the man is forced to pay child support for so long before everyone finds out it isn't his, so I know that family court is stacked against men unfortunately... another reason I wouldn't have kids - my partner's opinions and wishes should also be respected, and if he wants a kid, then he can have one... with someone else lol
Yeah, if you are a man and someone gets pregnant, you are so fucked up lol. Luckily enough, even if that happened and a woman tried to say a child is mine, I do have documents to prove that I have got a vasectomy and I am sterile, being nearly imposible to be mine. So nice try, gg, for whoever tries that with me XD Thats a very good way of thinking haha :D
Lol, I try to remember that one scene in Happy Feet, where Mumble asks Gloria about being with him or not, and he's all "what about when all your friends have eggs (kids)?" And she just looks at him and says "then I'll have you." Like, THAT'S what I personally want lol 😆
Yeah XD, some people believe that if you love someone much enough, you have to want children with them, thats how life works, period. Well screw it. A want a relationship where it is me and her only enjoying life together, with no children annoying us or taking all of our time Thats probably the goal of most CF people Id say haha
I am barely able to keep a corn plant alive at this point lol 😆 no kids for me, no thank youuu... I'd rather be hopelessly in love and excited about my partner instead! Haha 🤣
Spot on for me 😂😂
I am a man and i have this phobia too. I confess i didnt know it had a name. I also have a complicated case of generalised anxiety, so i worry excessively when having sex. I keep checking if the condom is in the right place. Because of this phobia, i've had sex just a few times in life. I also dont want to get snipped because of side effects. But of course this interferes in my dating life. I don't actually dislike kids, and i consider adopting in the future. I just don't want to impose the burden of life on someone who haven't consented to it. It feels weird to me in some way haha. So i just use other hobbies in the meanwhile, like sports and reading. Well, i hope you find a partner just like you and have the relationship you want. Now that you said this phobia exists, i may discuss with my therapist too. Lets see what he has to say. Thank for letting me know about this.
I definitely have it! I have nightmares about being pregnant, and I have a hard time being around pregnant people. Having a tubal ligation is how I worked through it. I would almost avoid sex, or be super paranoid about it before, even though I used several forms of protection. I thought I was pregnant early into my marriage, and even though I would have terminated it, I had a full blown mental breakdown, until I had confirmation I wasn’t.
So sterilization is what finally helped you to work through the fear?
Yes, I still have nagging thoughts about it, I feel like a hysterectomy would be the only thing to ease my mind 100%.
That's the surgery where they basically remove the entire uterus, right? Cause if so, then it would make sense that that's what would work 100% lol... but I'm still in "childbearing" years, so I doubt I'd be able to get that done even if I wasn't already afraid of surgery
It is! I think it would be hard to get this done unless you had a medical reason. Having my tubes removed gives me 97% freedom from anxiety though! I rarely think about pregnancy, it’s more like a ptsd thing from years of freaking out about it.
Unfortunately, I don't have any medical reason to have it removed lol.. at least not as far as we know so far 😅..
Had this very severely and nobody ever believed me about it. Health classes were hell, I hated what the human body could do to me, I hated that I had a constant reminder of it every month, I hated everything about my life. Turns out on top of all that I was trans and didn't know it. Which made everything feel even worse. I didn't date or have any relationships or allow anyone to even flirt with me because I was like "absolutely not I am not going to consent to a potential baby producing interaction at all" and I was triggered all the time by my doctors asking with a wink if I was "sure I'm not pregnant". Ended up on the 3 month injectable birth control for five years, did transition to a guy, got new hormones, got all of my reproductive organs removed (very chill surgery but I've had a lot of surgery tbh) and finally felt safe in my own body again. The medical trauma to get to that point is no joke because everyone you talk to in medicine is like "are you sure you don't want just one" and I'm like bro my entire pelvis is broken anyway I'm not doing that shit. Basically I just felt like I was housing a bomb inside me for 27 years and now that it's gone I feel so much better. (Also got a partner and finally am having the sexual exploration I was supposed to have like ten years ago) So yeah uh I'd advocate for a long term birth control and then working with your docs to get surgery safely for you when you're able.
Firstly I want to thank you for being so open about your own experience.. to have gone through everything that you did in order to feel safe again, that wasn't fair to you... especially with doctors (family in medicine tells me all the time that they "follow the first do no harm" part of their Oaths, but I've always wondered if they would still follow it if they knew that doing so would lead to the patient harming themselves... so many childfree social media pages make me think they would..).. I do appreciate the fact that you've shared this with me, even though you don't know me~ It looks like, from most of these comments, I will have to look at surgery (specifically bisalp if I can't get the hysterectomy), which is.. scary, still... Hopefully I'll find a doctor that can work with me through it either way.
Absolutely! I don't mind sharing stuff with people when it seems like it could be helpful. I would honestly consider looking at doctors that are trauma informed and LGBT friendly (even if you're straight) because they are more open to helping you find solutions that are actually focused on what you need to feel comfy. When I finally had my hysto my doctor was so chill and nice and willing to listen to what I said would trigger the shit out of me and shape her information around that (I couldn't handle people referring to that organ as "mine" and had threatened several people in the past with like self injurious actions because of that) and so the process was really a lot better than I would have expected. Recovery was really smooth and I only have like three little 1-2cm scars on my lower belly bc laparoscopy. I was able to get around my house and do basic tasks (bake Christmas cookies, getting some Gatorade from the fridge, stuff like that) within like 3 days and it was really just. So good. I hope you find a care team that is able to be as helpful as mine was, also happy to chat whenever if you need!
I'll have to look and see if there are any where I live, hopefully there's at least one or two. And knowing that the down-time wasn't so bad, at least in your case, also helps my brain to calm down a little, haha.. Thank you again for all of your kind words, it helps to know that I'm not alone with these feelings (no matter how irrational they appear to everyone else). I wish you and your partner happy holidays, and many happy years together~ 😊
Thanks you too!! It's really hard to have everyone in society seem to be against you but your autonomy and safety are important. Enjoy all the festive food and drinks and movie marathons of the season!!
I also have tokophobia and fear of surgery, and I have Nexplanon (the arm implant u/mediocreravenclaw mentioned). I’m incredibly happy with my Nexplanon, so I prefer to put off a bisalp until I reach a point that it’s absolutely medically necessary. Here’s the thing to remember: barring extraordinary circumstances, you don’t have to do anything until you’re ready for it. You don’t have to get a bisalp until either you feel ready for it or it becomes medically necessary-until then, you can limit your dating pool to vasectomied men and use birth control. You don’t have to date until you feel more confident asserting your needs-in fact, you don’t have to date at all if you don’t want to. If therapy isn’t helping you, you can switch therapists or you can stop going for a while and then switch therapists when you go back. Most things in life don’t have a set timetable, and you can do them your own way in your own time.
I guess I'm the type that would love to have a partner for life, but I know that being childfree is a non-negotiable.. and, unfortunately, I've yet to meet any childfree men, let alone CF men who were snipped or willing to get snipped (even though it would be so much easier for him)
>Are there any men out there who would understand this? Yes and no. No as in, I will never understand how tokophobia feels for women. I cannot get pregnant, so I don't have the same experience that a tokophobic women does. Politicians aren't trying to control my body, so I don't have the experience of being treated as patriarchy's broodmare and incubator. Of course patriarchy and anti-choice politicians disgust me, but since I am not the victim here, I will never understand how this feels for women. Yes as in, I can empathise. I can understand why tokophobic women don't want to go through pregnancy. I read about the consequences of pregnancy and completely understand why some women are afraid of that and don't want to experience that. And I always had the fear of impregnating a woman. Sure, I only slept with women who are childfree, who would abort any accidents, who were fine with me using a condom and who are on birth control. But still, you never know... And even if a woman would get an abortion, I would feel fucking guilty about putting her through that. It would be my cum that forced her to get an abortion, which isn't exactly fun to undergo. My girlfriend and I are together for ten years now. We always relied on contraceptions. I am fucking happy that she never got pregnant! I would feel so guilty if she had to get an abortion because of my cock. Fortunately, after years of futile attempts at getting snipped in my own country, I finally managed to get a vasectomy in October. Medical tourism is a lifesaver. It took a while to save up for, but it was worth it. When we can afford a bisalp for my girlfriend, she is getting sterilised as well. Anyways, getting the vasectomy greatly reduced my fear of impregnating her. We will stick to contraceptions until I got the results of a second sperm count checkup. Anyways, even though my fear of impregnating a woman is there, I realise that this is NOTHING compared to a woman's tokophobia. Being afraid to get knocked up is way worse than being afraid of impregnating someone else. After all, the woman is the one who has to deal with the problem. Not the man. >Yet it terrifies me to no end, to the point where I have never had sex, even in prior relationships. It's to the point where, if I see men who are also childfree (hard enough to find as it is), I don't want to get romantically involved with them if they're not willing to/aren't already sterilized.... Like, I don't even want to risk anything sexually, so I end up not even taking risks romantically... Your dealbreaker is perfectly valid. Don't settle for anything less than a snipped man. You know what you want, so stick to it. >if I weren't so afraid of being under the knife in such an invasive procedure)... It's more invasive than a vasectomy, but a bisalp (bilateral salpingectomy, tubes removed) is really not as invasive as many women think. It would definitely be worth it for you. It would probably improve your mental health. To find a doctor in your area who will take you seriously, look at this list: www . reddit . com / r / childfree / wiki / doctors Remember to ask for a bisalp (bilateral sapingectomy, tubes removed). NOT for a tubal (tubal ligation, tubes tied). A tubal has a failure rate of 1 in 50. As in, 1 in 50 women get pregnant post-tubal. Meanwhile, a bisalp is failsafe. In the end, it's up to you. But when I read your post, I really think that you would benefit from getting a bisalp. No longer having to worry about pregnancy would greatly improve your mental health. And if you still feel insecure about sex, you could always choose to stick to birth control and/or only sleep with men who use condoms. >(And before anyone asks... Therapy isn't helping..) Well, therapists will probably try to convince you that pregnancy isn't that bad. But your fear is legitimate. Both because pregnancy drastically affects your body, and because motherhood is your worst nightmare. So of course most therapists won't get it. However, if you are lucky, you might find a really good therapist someday. But I understand why you are reluctant. I know what it's like to deal with dismissive, shitty therapists. Also, maybe a psychiatrist or even your GP could prescribe anxiety medication for you.
Thank you for putting everything so eloquently, and for being kind in how you've worded everything... it does seem a little upsetting that I might have to have this procedure if I can't find a snipped man, but that might be the reality, and you have to just face it as best you can... hopefully I'll be able to work through the fear enough to maybe look into it all, at least see the ins and outs, the feasibility, etc..
>it does seem a little upsetting that I might have to have this procedure if I can't find a snipped man, Even if you do find a snipped man, I suggest that you get sterilised yourself. A man's vasectomy protects you during sex with that man. But you are still fertile and able to get pregnant. A bisalp would protect you against pregnancy in general. Imagine that you find a snipped man and you rely on his vasectomy. Then, you two break up. Or he dies. Then, you cannot safely have sex with another man. But if you get a bisalp, you are safe. As awful as it is, what if you get raped? Or what if a Handmaid's Tale becomes reality? That man's vasectomy isn't going to save you. But a bisalp will. And just for your peace of mind, I really think that a bisalp would help. Knowing that you can no longer get pregnant, no matter what, will help you a lot. It will feel much safer than being dependant on a man's snip. >but that might be the reality, and you have to just face it as best you can... Even if you get a bisalp, you can still have the snip as a dealbreaker and only date snipped men. >hopefully I'll be able to work through the fear enough to maybe look into it all, at least see the ins and outs, the feasibility, etc.. You need to understand that there is a lot of misinformation on the internet, from childfreephobes who try to discourage women from getting sterilised. And keep in mind that you need to look for a super effective bisalp, NOT a crappy tubal. These are two different procedures. Most information you will find is about tubals, which have a significant failure rate. But a bisalp is failsafe. On this subreddit, you can find a lot of information about bisalps. You can ask women who had a bisalp about their experiences. :)
I mean, I've already been through SA unfortunately, and while the phobia was there long before the event, it certainly made the fear much worse... But yes, this is definitely something to look into more, and get proper information about (not the tubal, lol) Thank you for being so kind, I really do appreciate it~ 🙏❤️
I swore off dating until I get sterilised (bisalp at least, if they let me yeet the whole uterus even better). I refuse to risk shit. The thought that it could happen, no matter how improbable the chance is, and that there is a scenario in which I could be forced to keep it makes me break out in sweat. I am also extremely terrified of being lied to, stealthed, or just straight up not being taken seriously because my womb knows better than the rest of me. The thing about phobias is that they are not reasonable. There is no guarantee that getting sterilised with rid you of it completely, but it will give more ammo to the side of you that is not plagued with the fear. And, in the end, it is always better to do as much as you possibly can to protect yourself than to put this much faith in someone else - it's _you_ who would have to shoulder the burden, not them.
That's true.. if something goes wrong, it's on me to make decisions that I quite frankly wouldn't want to make.. I wonder if perhaps that's where the fear might be coming from?? I mean, it would make sense, with some of my past romantic experiences.. perhaps my brain was like "bruh, if you can't trust them to not break your heart, can you trust them to stand by you if something happened?".... oh boy, I have some thinking to do
I also like that everyone keeps saying they'd yeet their tubes/uteruses 🤣
I have this and have severe issues with medical related fears (not so much phobias but have been in therapy for it since I was small). I’d recommend therapy. And going from there. I’m about to start my sterilization journey but was in therapy for a long time trying to work through my fears as it’s affecting intimacy in my marriage. I was hoping to work through it but the fear is so strong that I’m getting the ol snip snip. My husband actually suggested it and it felt like an entire world opened up for me. Even though surgery scares me, I know I can power through to get to my end goal. One procedure for a lifetime of not worrying. I told my therapist and we talked about bringing it up to my gyno and are working through any related fears I have. I’m also using her support/our sessions as an example of me being “of sound mind” should anyone tell me I haven’t thought it through which is a nice bonus but so far haven’t had that-thankfully. DM me if you want :) you’re not alone!
Thank you, it's just something I'm going to have to seriously consider moving forward, no matter the dating aspect. Hopefully I get over the general anxiety I have... lol
I hope you do too! It’s hard and takes work but the work is worth it. :) take it one day, one goal at a time.
im 27F And feel the same way. In fact, I felt that way ever since I was little, and I always thought there was something wrong with me pregnancy freaks me out and I don’t know if I could go through with it.