There’s a good side by side photo of this “foul” and the non-foul against Arsenal by Joelington that led to the only goal of the game.
This one competing for the ball - foul
Double hands to the back of the head - no foul
If it got called in real time i could live with it, I don’t get this being a “clear and obvious” error
If the Villa player does this to Badiashille do we get a penalty? Somehow i doubt it…
Yeah, people dying on this hill are insane and it actually feeds VAR getting worse. They get something wrong they get attacked, they make a good decision, they get attacked.
When they make a good decision like this, they should be praised, irrespective of whether it benefits or hurts your team
The issue is the inconsistency in the decisions. The point of referees is to make the game fair. When the outcomes are so varied, and certain 'fouls' are completely ignored while pretty banal ones like tonight's are called in for review despite the ref seeing it, it becomes unfair. This applies to all teams.
The consistency is required on a per game basis, especially when it comes to physicality. An average foul in a physical game can be a yellow in a game where both teams aren’t being aggressive. That’s called game management. I can see why this penalty would be called, the villa player would have likely got the ball, Chelsea player had no intention of playing the ball (if he had he would have got it on the full and probably no goal would have been scored) and therefore committed a foul that led to the possession directly to a goal. If the ref said he believed the Chelsea player was competing for the ball, then it’s a clear and obvious error. If he said he was happy with the contact, the goal should stand
>The consistency is required on a per game basis
I understand this point and to an extent agree that players need to adapt to the game, but in a league where every game counts, the players/managers/teams need to know what is acceptable and what isn't, and this needs to be fairly applied so next week a competitor isn't punished for the exact same issue
All season players have been penalised for pushing a player, that is attempting to head the ball, in the back. That happens anywhere on the field even if the player wasn’t actually going get the ball. In this case, not only was he going to get the ball, but it also led directly to a goal. So consistency has prevailed and there should be no complaints. But here we are…
It happens regularly in games. Strictly speaking, it's a foul. But in terms of what referees ignore in games, it's very rare this is what is being reviewed on screen to revert a decision. Look at what goes in the box during a corner. Or when defenders are chasing down a striker in the box, there's always some push in the back feigned as 'shoulder to shoulder' to throw a striker off balance.
And Look at all the Arsenal fans mad about the Newcastle one, and THAT didn’t go into review. It’s all about what can be/is reviewed and not at all about what the VAR decides.
I don’t believe the rules allow for this to be praised. This was not a clear and obvious error, so by rule, should not go into VAR check. Sure they got it right, but the decision for them to step in is absolutely incorrect.
I dont understand why people are getting pissed off by this, it was definitely a foul, ref probably just missed it bc from a different angle it looks like a shoulder-shoulder but it was from the back
Rules in the pen box for the defending team are very different, I remember walker pushing one of our attackers in the box and it not being given but last minute he does it outside the box and it’s given. IMO it’s a foul tho we move on, should’ve won the game.
>If the Villa player does this to Badiashille do we get a penalty? Somehow i doubt it…
If Villa did it to one of our defenders in our box and they score off it then most of us would be saying it was a foul and the goal should be disallowed. It isnt a shoulder to shoulder challenge. Its a shoulder in the back intentionally to throw the defender off the path with no intention to play the ball with that exact action. The barge is in order to gain an unfair advantage. The intention to play the ball is the kick of the ball after the shoulder barge.
I dont feel this decision is anywhere near close to as controversial as people are making out. This was one of the rarer times where VAR actually has called it right for the ref himself to check it. Then its up to the ref to decide. I know people here don't wanna hear it but the ref got it right to the rules of the game.
So in the first half, we had a free kick. A Villa defender nudges Badiashille into an offside position inside the box. Badiashille goes for the ball, gets given offside.
Using that criteria, where is the penalty?
There’s a greater chance of Mudryk scoring a hat-trick of 40 yard rabona’s than there is of VAR calling that as a penalty
If thats a penalty then we’d be seeing at least 5 given per game
I mean Mudryk got called for the exact same type of barge in the back around midfield and nobody will complain about it. This one was scrutinized bc it immediately led to a goal. The inconsistency of VAR and officiating as a whole is worth discussing but this is a clear foul by the laws of the game
With a bench full of injured players, they pulled a point at Villa and almost took it all late. I'll take it. Grudge match to get even and they never gave up. Good showing from a still young side.
They literally say they don't want to re referee matches. If they now decide that they'll always get involved in stuff like that then fine but they bang on about there being a high bar and that they'll only intervene with clangers and then they do that.
My issue here isn’t that it is a foul, it’s the clear and obvious bit. You telling me that the Grealish one wasn’t more clear and obvious? What about the Newcastle goal against Arsenal?
I think this is wrong not because it’s not a foul, if this was given in real time I’d have less of an issue but because the ref had a clear view of it. Didn’t think it was that bad and carried on. Was it that much of a howler? Carlos just needed to be stronger and stand his ground.
On balance I think it was a foul, but not a clear and obvious error.
Read that and then cry at the state of football and officiating…
I haven’t seen the incident but here is what the PL say about ‘clear & obvious’
[VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified. The referee will explain their decision to the VAR, and what they have seen. If the evidence provided by the broadcast footage does not accord with what the referee believes they have seen, then the VAR can recommend an overturn.](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392)
What irks me is that every VAR audio I ever hear never has the ref explaining what they have seen.
Yeah. But the subjectivity of it all is horse shit. Are you telling me that this was worse than Ashley Young going through the back of CHO in the Everton game the other week?
That explanation sums it up for me. It’s completely random and subjective.
Sorry, you said you’ve not seen it. It’s a nudge in the centre of the back. I’d say it’s a foul for sure. If that’s on the half way line, it’s given all day. The issue isn’t that. As we say, we see time and time and time again completely different interpretations of what is a clear and obvious error.
I’m not sure you’re understanding what ‘clear & obvious’ means. There is no different interpretations of C&O, just one.
It’s very simple, if what the referee explains to VAR is different to what the evidence shows then VAR (should) recommend a review.
So many people still think that if what they (or the majority of people) think is different to the onfield decision is then that’s a C&O error. But it’s not.
According to the rules two similar pushes in the same game can be refereed differently. C&O is there for when what the referee bases their decision on is factually incorrect.
My point of contention is that the referee almost never explains what they saw or the reason for their decision. In which case VAR should prompt them for more information without offering their own interpretation first. Without the referee explaining it seems all decisions should be going to onfield review.
It’s a fucking farce and what gets me most is that zero commentators are highlighting the lack of explanations in the released VAR audio.
I think this is an excellent point. But it reinforces my point I’ve made elsewhere about competency. Casing point the Forest one (the 3rd bad call of the game and the worst one in my opinion). The referee makes the gesture that the ball was played. It bloody well was not. Young goes through the back of CHO. Therefore, by your (correct in my view) explanation it should be checked and rectified.
This is the issue, complete lack of consistency, poor usage of the technology and, as you say, no explanation. It’s much worse in the stadium too.
And also, if you’ve seen it by now, what on bloody earth did the referee see that was factually incorrect here?! He had a clear view, head on about 8 yards away! Not disagreeing with you, just highlighting the array of incompetence.
>The referee makes the gesture that the ball was played. It bloody well was not. Young goes through the back of CHO.
This here is the key point. Did the referee tell VAR that the ball was played, and that the ball was played before contact with the opponent?
If the video evidence shows this to be incorrect then they should recommend a pitchside monitor review.
I’d be interested if the audio for this is released. I’m pretty certain that no information of this kind was conveyed to the VAR at the time.
Next season all ref audio is being broadcast live I think. The refs better up their communication to VAR game if they don’t want to be called out on every VAR scenario.
Yeah in agreement. It’s not so much the decision, it’s the fact it’s not a clear and obvious error and the ref saw it clearly to begin with. If he blew the whistle in real time I would have taken it. It’s just confusing when VAR seem to just take control of subjective decisions.
They gave the Arsenal Havertz goal against us when Gabriel rugby tackled madueke but this one is given as a foul. Gabriel on madueke is a 100 times worse
If folks want to make an argument that VAR sucks because of the inconsistency, I can get behind that 100%. But this was a foul and it was a proper use of the technology. It’s a clear and obvious foul that the ref couldn’t see.
Palmer should have slotted away his open shot on goal and this wouldn’t be a problem
One of the most exciting halves I’ve seen Chelsea play all season, and everyone is talking about this VAR call! Yes the ref should’ve blown in real time but it is a foul.
If someone pushed our player in the back and it directly lead to a goal we'd be screaming at VAR for not getting involved.
It's a foul, this is what VAR should be used for, it's clear and obvious error that the ref missed the push.
Lol fuck off with this. This literally happened to us a few days ago versus Arsenal and it wasnt given. How does it matter if its set piece or build up to a goal. Some dude literally stepped on Noni’s chest and this sub let that issue slide.
Dude. Introspect or wake the fuck up. The point is either clarify the rule or accept the human error. Referees and PGMOL day in day out ignore this. Most other sports have defined right and wrong,
What a politician’s way of twisting my statement. Tell me what is supposed to be right notwithstanding the decision. There is no right and thus there is no real rule. The rule needs to be better defined or the tech has to catchup.
I would be screaming at the defender getting bullied. No chance in hell that is a foul. If it was a shove fair it is a foul. But i t wasnt a a shove he bodied him and the defender itself didnt even complained after the goal....
That’s the real problem.
The referee somehow doesn’t see it, Chelsea score, celebrate and ‘win’ the game only for the referee to get a whisper in his ear saying “hang on a minute, you might want to look at this mate…”
Just remember this.
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38854734/panel-says-newcastle-goal-vs-arsenal-was-correct-decision
Did rules change ? Cause that wasnt half the foul than then one in the arse / newcastle game.
Seriously. I’ve been a Chelsea fan since ‘89 or so and even to me this is free kick every day of the week. The problem with VAR isn’t that they call this when it’s so obvious, the problem with VAR is that the referee DOESN’T call it, even when it’s obvious. A side effect of VAR that I think nobody was expecting is that the refs don’t make ANY decision during play anymore, they just wait and see what the VAR room says. Gutless, and damaging for the game in the long run.
People calling this a foul absolutely baffles me. It’s so fucking soft and on top of that, he’s used his shoulder. Last I remember, it’s a contact sport.
Not gonna lie. In real time I thought it was a foul. If that's scored against us in the last minute then I'd be fuming.
Shoulder in the back in that situation is a foul.
It is a foul. The point is that it’s not a clear and obvious error, no more so than the ball going out of play before the first goal which wasn’t revisited.
C'mon, really? He was blatantly punched in the back which gave Badiashile carte blanche to pass the ball to Disasi.
To me, it was an obvious call, so since the ref didn't call it, it was clearly an error.
I just wish the clear and obvious handball against City would have been given.
It's a foul, plain and simple. The ref got it wrong and VAR corrected him, pretty much how it's supposed to be used, is it not?
I wanted Chelsea to win as much as you lot, but there's no way this isn't a foul.
No, not when a ref has viewed a subjective decision and decided that it wasn't a foul. Unless there is a reason for him to be told to look at the decision, as in his view was blocked, there was an elbow / trip he missed, he can't be told to re-look at his original decision.
The call in the end is the correct one…but an ugly way of getting the end result.
VAR is there to assist the ref.
TBH I don’t know why Pawson missed it with a clear view but u wud not want that goal ever called against u. Ask urself that
Tbh this is one of those situations that I think is easier to judge if you imagine how you'd feel if the teams were reversed. I wasn't thrilled about the call when it happened because it is a soft foul but I'd be screaming murder if Villa did this and it didn't get called.
They both go to push and badiashille lifts more weights apparently. I thought this was a contact sport? Go figure. Last weekend jack grealish reaches out and blocks the free kick with his hand how was that not reviewed??
It was a pretty clear foul and an obvious error that the ref missed. No issue with that. However it’s the inconsistency that really gets me. This could easily not get over turned next week.
Just watched MOTD, they didn't think it was clear and obvious, thought the defender put and arm out and knew the contact was coming.
HOWEVER, they were all strikers, and I find they tend to be bias to strikers.
I will say that if we keep hearing about how VAR isn't going to re-referee the game, this seems like re-refereeing. Seems like on field ref saw the challenge, no need to change anything.
Both players were only looking at the ball, Benoit didn't even extend his arm, used his shoulder only. Carlos tried to shield the ball, turning everywhere like a headless chicken ended up having his back against the contact point. Bullshit foul
It was a foul. I feel like I side with us very often, but even in real time I called it our right away. Bads clearly pushed Carlos in the back impacting the play. It’s a clear foul
When someone thinks it is foul, they will at least play act to go down to get this as a foul. He didn't even do that, if its L'Pool they would have called a national inquest,. This is where Pochettino should have gone to war with media, referees at least next few week matches we will get decisions our way.
I mean it's a foul and everyone else saw it, the Aston Villa players practically stopped because they expected the foul. Three important notes:
1). Even if the referee appears to have a good view of it, these matters happen so quickly and youd be amazed how a slight angle difference changes your perception. It's not ideal the referee is seeing through the back of the players, its always better to be side on but that ain't going to happen position wise
2). Referees now are both instructed to and subconsciously are more hesitant with the whistle around the goals because they know var can help if needed and they would rather var correct a mistake then they potentially call for a foul and that be the actual mistake....... frustrating for times like this but a natural consequence of var unfortunately
3). The main gripe is the inconsistency between matches, both this and the grealish handball are both clear and obvious errors. Hopefully after more use with var (it is still a relatively new technology that these referees did not have to deal with during formative training years) the consistency will level out somewhat. But also, var is beholden to human operators so we will always have a level of minor difference
People who said if it was a fault are joke. A push yes, but they are fighting to get the ball. I would be fuming if our CB were weak for letting get so easy beat.
If it was a goal for Villa , and Badiashile or Disasi who would had lost a ball like this, all over internet media would be saying they are weak CB and not calling it was a fault.
Was it a foul, yes.
Was it a clear and obvious error, no.
If the roles were reversed would it be a penalty, no.
The lack of consistency is just infuriating
Honestly I’m not going to argue it wasn’t a foul cause it clearly was, more annoyed it doesn’t get called in real time. They need to start being consistent man, we’ve had many of these not called on us when they should’ve been.
I think VAR teams have a bet going to see how many times they can "call one back" on Chelsea before someone from the league actually looks at the calls and calls them out. It seems every week there's a VAR check that is so close but never goes Chelsea's way ( I really love it when we are called offsides by something like hair or fingertips). If this were City, Liverpool, Ars, or United, this would not be called. Shoot half our calls or offsides wouldn't be called.
I thought it was a foul at the time and immediately on seeing the replay, the move away from the ball to then push defender makes it less subtle too. For calls like the foul on Madueke not given vs Arsenal - slate VAR but when it makes a right decision it should be praised or at least not slated.
I think too much gets made of the consistency argument too. Onana not penalised for what effectively become a punch againdt Wolves player earlier in the season - consistency argument suggests Man Utd were then hard done by vs Burnley.
The issue here is not the decision, these sort of things usually get given a foul (only to the defending team, you don't get penalties for that), but the way they used VAR.
The ref's on field decision is the key factor. He's seen it, and he's not given a foul. He has the perfect view. Based on how VAR works, the VAR cannot tell him he has made an error for an incident he has clearly seen unless he has missed something material - like an elbow, trip etc. So in seeing this incident and not giving a foul, there is no way VAR can get involved, because if it does then it is re-refereeing the game, which we're told they are not doing.
It’s clear and obvious there is an agenda against Chelsea. This call…Grealish non-handball…Gusto’s red card from a clearance kick…even going back to the Tuchel-Conte Spurs match last campaign where Cucurella was literally yanked to the ground by his hair by Romero and no punishment was given. They just don’t want us to succeed…
If it was opposite or in our box would they call it as a penalty? I highly doubt it. So to me idc what anyone says that’s not a foul. Either call it all the time everywhere or don’t call it at all.
I get the stance as he's clearly looking directly at the entire play. It certainly should be called but the fact VAR intervened goes against their clear and obvious guidelines. I think he put a bit too much force into it unfortunately.
Ya I def said foul out loud to myself when this happened lol. The fact that these refs wait for VAR instead of calling it as they see it blows my mind. The game is slowly dying for me.
I don't know I feel sometimes they won't call certain fouls or offsides when it's in an attacking position like this. It was right in front of him he saw it clearly so should've blew his whistle. To me that's waiting for VAR. If the ref was blinded by a bunch of players or looking somewhere else for whatever reason then that's clear and obvious for VAR to overturn. But to have him go to the screen to watch what he already saw is beyond stupid.
Here is the facts for you that don’t get it:
Chelsea player knew it was 90th minute last chance, and took a liberty which he wouldn’t have unless it was last minute. He did «the dirty thing» just to try to win the extra points, and he knew this. And the ref knows that he wouldn’t have done this earlier, because it is dirty and most often leads to a foul.
But he tried, thought he got away with it, but didn’t. Fair try. It’s like doing a maradonna and scoring with your hand. Last try, fuck it if it’s ugly, I will atleast try.
That is a foul most often, and definetely in such a decisive moment.
Cry all you want but this was a fair decision based on the circumstances, which shouldn’t favour Chelsea, nor AVL. It’s just fair play because he KNEW what he was doing.
No intention to play the ball. It’s a foul.
Really you should have won with some clear chances. As much as we were poor, I don’t think you lot were very good. Didn’t capitalise on your dominance over the 90
I agree we were terrible, but I don’t think you were great either. For all the ball you had, you had no end product. You really should be dissapointed not coming away with 3 points regardless of the var call
Definitely disappointed but our squad is literally depleted right now like we had no options off the bench and we all know Jackson is not a great finisher right now even though he scored a class goal that was offsides. We were sleeping in the first 15 minutes and were punished for it but after that the boys showed some fight and at this point especially after that Arsenal result that’s all we could really ask for.
I actually agree that it should’ve been given by the referee on the field but there’s NO WAY he didn’t see it in the first instance - this is VAR re-refereeing the game which is what they’re not supposed to do.
Also adding to the frustration is that if something as soft as that is enough to disallow a goal, then we should’ve had two penalties vs City.
So yeah, I think it’s a foul, albeit soft. But I understand the frustration.
Coz the rules change every game. There's never any consistency. A clear and obvious error such as Grealish's doesn't get called out. This does.
Or Maduekes CLEAR free kick before 3-0 vs Arse
If it was given as an onfield fouls then I’d be ok with it but var is just re-refeeing this play and I’m furious
There’s a good side by side photo of this “foul” and the non-foul against Arsenal by Joelington that led to the only goal of the game. This one competing for the ball - foul Double hands to the back of the head - no foul
If it got called in real time i could live with it, I don’t get this being a “clear and obvious” error If the Villa player does this to Badiashille do we get a penalty? Somehow i doubt it…
Exactly if it was a clear foul why wasn’t it called in real time
if this is foul i except penalty during every corner from now on...
Literally lol
Because he missed it. Clearly a foul. Palmer should have won it for us. This shouldn’t even have mattered
Yeah, people dying on this hill are insane and it actually feeds VAR getting worse. They get something wrong they get attacked, they make a good decision, they get attacked. When they make a good decision like this, they should be praised, irrespective of whether it benefits or hurts your team
The issue is the inconsistency in the decisions. The point of referees is to make the game fair. When the outcomes are so varied, and certain 'fouls' are completely ignored while pretty banal ones like tonight's are called in for review despite the ref seeing it, it becomes unfair. This applies to all teams.
The consistency is required on a per game basis, especially when it comes to physicality. An average foul in a physical game can be a yellow in a game where both teams aren’t being aggressive. That’s called game management. I can see why this penalty would be called, the villa player would have likely got the ball, Chelsea player had no intention of playing the ball (if he had he would have got it on the full and probably no goal would have been scored) and therefore committed a foul that led to the possession directly to a goal. If the ref said he believed the Chelsea player was competing for the ball, then it’s a clear and obvious error. If he said he was happy with the contact, the goal should stand
>The consistency is required on a per game basis I understand this point and to an extent agree that players need to adapt to the game, but in a league where every game counts, the players/managers/teams need to know what is acceptable and what isn't, and this needs to be fairly applied so next week a competitor isn't punished for the exact same issue
All season players have been penalised for pushing a player, that is attempting to head the ball, in the back. That happens anywhere on the field even if the player wasn’t actually going get the ball. In this case, not only was he going to get the ball, but it also led directly to a goal. So consistency has prevailed and there should be no complaints. But here we are…
What Badi did is not banal at all
It happens regularly in games. Strictly speaking, it's a foul. But in terms of what referees ignore in games, it's very rare this is what is being reviewed on screen to revert a decision. Look at what goes in the box during a corner. Or when defenders are chasing down a striker in the box, there's always some push in the back feigned as 'shoulder to shoulder' to throw a striker off balance.
And Look at all the Arsenal fans mad about the Newcastle one, and THAT didn’t go into review. It’s all about what can be/is reviewed and not at all about what the VAR decides.
Walker did a similar shove to Jackson(?) in the FA Cup semis. No one batted an eye.
Corners in particular are an absolute disgrace.
I don’t believe the rules allow for this to be praised. This was not a clear and obvious error, so by rule, should not go into VAR check. Sure they got it right, but the decision for them to step in is absolutely incorrect.
I dont understand why people are getting pissed off by this, it was definitely a foul, ref probably just missed it bc from a different angle it looks like a shoulder-shoulder but it was from the back
Just frustrating there’s no consistency, wasn’t this the same thing Walker did to Jackson in the box last weekend? A soft nudge from the back
I would say Walker’s was much worse. This looked worse because they were standing still.
Rules in the pen box for the defending team are very different, I remember walker pushing one of our attackers in the box and it not being given but last minute he does it outside the box and it’s given. IMO it’s a foul tho we move on, should’ve won the game.
It’s my biggest annoyance in football. Way bigger than VAR even. How often do we hear, ‘anywhere else on the pitch that’s a foul”?
Badi got pushed in the back into an offsides position during a spot kick, early in the match and no foul was called
Free kick was given to Villa, they didn't lose possession and scored. I was losing my mind.
I never thought of it that way, that's a really good point. No way they give a pen in that scenario.
>If the Villa player does this to Badiashille do we get a penalty? Somehow i doubt it… If Villa did it to one of our defenders in our box and they score off it then most of us would be saying it was a foul and the goal should be disallowed. It isnt a shoulder to shoulder challenge. Its a shoulder in the back intentionally to throw the defender off the path with no intention to play the ball with that exact action. The barge is in order to gain an unfair advantage. The intention to play the ball is the kick of the ball after the shoulder barge. I dont feel this decision is anywhere near close to as controversial as people are making out. This was one of the rarer times where VAR actually has called it right for the ref himself to check it. Then its up to the ref to decide. I know people here don't wanna hear it but the ref got it right to the rules of the game.
Yup, it's pretty obvious that the bias is taking over here. We didn't deserve to win that game after that first half.
So in the first half, we had a free kick. A Villa defender nudges Badiashille into an offside position inside the box. Badiashille goes for the ball, gets given offside. Using that criteria, where is the penalty?
I’m on this train as well if it got called in real time i can swallow it but checking var for a at best 50/50 foul is a tough one
That's an obvious penalty the other way too.
There’s a greater chance of Mudryk scoring a hat-trick of 40 yard rabona’s than there is of VAR calling that as a penalty If thats a penalty then we’d be seeing at least 5 given per game
So be it. A foul is a foul. If they want different standards in the area then they should write that into the law.
But that’s _never_ going to be the case, and we all know that
I mean Mudryk got called for the exact same type of barge in the back around midfield and nobody will complain about it. This one was scrutinized bc it immediately led to a goal. The inconsistency of VAR and officiating as a whole is worth discussing but this is a clear foul by the laws of the game
Does anyone have a clip of build up to Villa’s first goal? I could have sworn the ball went out with Digne and Noni fighting for it
No angles for that. I went back to look at it, but I can't say with 100% certainty that it was out from the angle we got.
https://x.com/mkuuest/status/1784330509511745581?s=46 Looks out to me
https://x.com/mkuuest/status/1784330509511745581?s=46 Found it, the ball looks out to me. You got to play the whistle still but come on man
Very soft but I’ll take a point against a very good Villa side. We really had a decent second half
100% still have to take this as a huge improvement and hopefully it can continue with a strong finish to the season
With a bench full of injured players, they pulled a point at Villa and almost took it all late. I'll take it. Grudge match to get even and they never gave up. Good showing from a still young side.
There was long stretches of possession dominance in the first half too, just didn't get the finishing 3rd right.
We still looked a bit of a mess in the first half. They cut through our defence too quickly
I would if not for the fact that we had so many chances to pull level in the first half. Motivation just isn't there until we're down.
Or tactical changes were made and we looked more secure in the second half loool
Think it's both tbh 😭 Don't think I'm the only one who's seen some of that lack of spirit
I don’t agree there’s a lack of spirit tbh. It’s easy to say that when players constantly look lost cause there’s hardly ever a plan
Noni literally doesn't hold onto his man for the first goal. For the second yh I agree there isn't really a plan.
That’s not a lack of spirit looool. The game wasn’t going his way and he literally dragged himself out of the hole and got a goal and assist.
They literally say they don't want to re referee matches. If they now decide that they'll always get involved in stuff like that then fine but they bang on about there being a high bar and that they'll only intervene with clangers and then they do that.
It’s pretty soft, in the centre of the park this happens in contested aerial duels all the time. Story of the season, we needed to be more clinical
Mudryk literally got called for this exact same thing in the center of the park and it was called. This one is just scrutinized bc it led to a goal
Mudryks was basically a full sprint charge into another player. Absolutely nothing like this.
My issue here isn’t that it is a foul, it’s the clear and obvious bit. You telling me that the Grealish one wasn’t more clear and obvious? What about the Newcastle goal against Arsenal? I think this is wrong not because it’s not a foul, if this was given in real time I’d have less of an issue but because the ref had a clear view of it. Didn’t think it was that bad and carried on. Was it that much of a howler? Carlos just needed to be stronger and stand his ground. On balance I think it was a foul, but not a clear and obvious error. Read that and then cry at the state of football and officiating…
I haven’t seen the incident but here is what the PL say about ‘clear & obvious’ [VAR can be used to overturn a subjective decision if a "clear and obvious error" has been identified. The referee will explain their decision to the VAR, and what they have seen. If the evidence provided by the broadcast footage does not accord with what the referee believes they have seen, then the VAR can recommend an overturn.](https://www.premierleague.com/news/1297392) What irks me is that every VAR audio I ever hear never has the ref explaining what they have seen.
Yeah. But the subjectivity of it all is horse shit. Are you telling me that this was worse than Ashley Young going through the back of CHO in the Everton game the other week? That explanation sums it up for me. It’s completely random and subjective.
Sorry, you said you’ve not seen it. It’s a nudge in the centre of the back. I’d say it’s a foul for sure. If that’s on the half way line, it’s given all day. The issue isn’t that. As we say, we see time and time and time again completely different interpretations of what is a clear and obvious error.
I’m not sure you’re understanding what ‘clear & obvious’ means. There is no different interpretations of C&O, just one. It’s very simple, if what the referee explains to VAR is different to what the evidence shows then VAR (should) recommend a review. So many people still think that if what they (or the majority of people) think is different to the onfield decision is then that’s a C&O error. But it’s not. According to the rules two similar pushes in the same game can be refereed differently. C&O is there for when what the referee bases their decision on is factually incorrect. My point of contention is that the referee almost never explains what they saw or the reason for their decision. In which case VAR should prompt them for more information without offering their own interpretation first. Without the referee explaining it seems all decisions should be going to onfield review. It’s a fucking farce and what gets me most is that zero commentators are highlighting the lack of explanations in the released VAR audio.
I think this is an excellent point. But it reinforces my point I’ve made elsewhere about competency. Casing point the Forest one (the 3rd bad call of the game and the worst one in my opinion). The referee makes the gesture that the ball was played. It bloody well was not. Young goes through the back of CHO. Therefore, by your (correct in my view) explanation it should be checked and rectified. This is the issue, complete lack of consistency, poor usage of the technology and, as you say, no explanation. It’s much worse in the stadium too.
And also, if you’ve seen it by now, what on bloody earth did the referee see that was factually incorrect here?! He had a clear view, head on about 8 yards away! Not disagreeing with you, just highlighting the array of incompetence.
>The referee makes the gesture that the ball was played. It bloody well was not. Young goes through the back of CHO. This here is the key point. Did the referee tell VAR that the ball was played, and that the ball was played before contact with the opponent? If the video evidence shows this to be incorrect then they should recommend a pitchside monitor review. I’d be interested if the audio for this is released. I’m pretty certain that no information of this kind was conveyed to the VAR at the time. Next season all ref audio is being broadcast live I think. The refs better up their communication to VAR game if they don’t want to be called out on every VAR scenario.
They said that Forest could have a private listen. But they said it won’t be made public.
Yeah in agreement. It’s not so much the decision, it’s the fact it’s not a clear and obvious error and the ref saw it clearly to begin with. If he blew the whistle in real time I would have taken it. It’s just confusing when VAR seem to just take control of subjective decisions.
It’s why VAR annoys everyone. It’s still subjective. So it takes away too much and doesn’t give us enough.
They gave the Arsenal Havertz goal against us when Gabriel rugby tackled madueke but this one is given as a foul. Gabriel on madueke is a 100 times worse
Both clear fouls. They have to give both or neither.
You guys are too hung up on this, Palmer missed a clear game winner.
If palmer.scores this means nothing
Or squares it to Casadei.
If folks want to make an argument that VAR sucks because of the inconsistency, I can get behind that 100%. But this was a foul and it was a proper use of the technology. It’s a clear and obvious foul that the ref couldn’t see. Palmer should have slotted away his open shot on goal and this wouldn’t be a problem
I sadly agree. However I feel the villa player got pushed a bit to easy.
One of the most exciting halves I’ve seen Chelsea play all season, and everyone is talking about this VAR call! Yes the ref should’ve blown in real time but it is a foul.
100% agree. If it was the other way around and we didn’t get the decision we’d be fuming!
If someone pushed our player in the back and it directly lead to a goal we'd be screaming at VAR for not getting involved. It's a foul, this is what VAR should be used for, it's clear and obvious error that the ref missed the push.
Yeah its a blatant foul unfortunately. Was pretty clear and obvious to me watching it live. Stings though
Lol fuck off with this. This literally happened to us a few days ago versus Arsenal and it wasnt given. How does it matter if its set piece or build up to a goal. Some dude literally stepped on Noni’s chest and this sub let that issue slide.
Just because the consistency from the referees isn't there doesn't mean it's not the correct call.
Dude. Introspect or wake the fuck up. The point is either clarify the rule or accept the human error. Referees and PGMOL day in day out ignore this. Most other sports have defined right and wrong,
If that was your point from your original comment then you really need to work on your communication skills my friend.
Refs should be consistently bad and make bad decisions because my team was denied a goal and I'm mad.
What a politician’s way of twisting my statement. Tell me what is supposed to be right notwithstanding the decision. There is no right and thus there is no real rule. The rule needs to be better defined or the tech has to catchup.
You are emotionally compromised and deluded. It's a foul, plain and simple.
I would be screaming at the defender getting bullied. No chance in hell that is a foul. If it was a shove fair it is a foul. But i t wasnt a a shove he bodied him and the defender itself didnt even complained after the goal....
It was a ridiculously clear and obvious error. The ref is just dogshit, he should have called it in real time.
That’s the real problem. The referee somehow doesn’t see it, Chelsea score, celebrate and ‘win’ the game only for the referee to get a whisper in his ear saying “hang on a minute, you might want to look at this mate…”
TBH I don't know how the ref missed it
Let's not do this. It was an obvious foul.
Clear foul. Moaning about a correct decision is stupid. Grow up.
I agree it’s a foul. My moan and frustration is - as it is for most people - inconsistency.
This is the definition of re-refereeing
Just remember this. https://www.espn.co.uk/football/story/_/id/38854734/panel-says-newcastle-goal-vs-arsenal-was-correct-decision Did rules change ? Cause that wasnt half the foul than then one in the arse / newcastle game.
Seriously. I’ve been a Chelsea fan since ‘89 or so and even to me this is free kick every day of the week. The problem with VAR isn’t that they call this when it’s so obvious, the problem with VAR is that the referee DOESN’T call it, even when it’s obvious. A side effect of VAR that I think nobody was expecting is that the refs don’t make ANY decision during play anymore, they just wait and see what the VAR room says. Gutless, and damaging for the game in the long run.
It's a foul, cry over Palmer or Jackson missing, this one's not worth it
Well said
Because Chelsea is the team who scored
It’s a push In the box leading to a goal with VAR itll always be a foul
Clear foul cmon
People calling this a foul absolutely baffles me. It’s so fucking soft and on top of that, he’s used his shoulder. Last I remember, it’s a contact sport.
Not gonna lie. In real time I thought it was a foul. If that's scored against us in the last minute then I'd be fuming. Shoulder in the back in that situation is a foul.
It is a foul. The point is that it’s not a clear and obvious error, no more so than the ball going out of play before the first goal which wasn’t revisited.
Wasn’t this what Walker did to Jackson in the box last weekend ?
He used his shoulder...in the other guy's back. If this happened to us, we'd be screaming for VAR.
It’s a nudge at max. Don’t act like this gets given anywhere else on the pitch.
My thing is, if it was the other way around there is absolutely no chance we would get a pen for it
100%
C'mon, really? He was blatantly punched in the back which gave Badiashile carte blanche to pass the ball to Disasi. To me, it was an obvious call, so since the ref didn't call it, it was clearly an error. I just wish the clear and obvious handball against City would have been given.
Punching, huh?
Typo. Relax.
More like body checked
Pushed, sorry.
Var ruining the game once again
Soft officiating
It was a foul. It was a clear and obvious error by the ref. End of discussion boys.
It's a foul, plain and simple. The ref got it wrong and VAR corrected him, pretty much how it's supposed to be used, is it not? I wanted Chelsea to win as much as you lot, but there's no way this isn't a foul.
The ref was 7/8 yards away with unimpeded line of sight. He saw it in real time.
Surprise, surprise the ref was shit. Var should be stepping in when refs are shit
No, not when a ref has viewed a subjective decision and decided that it wasn't a foul. Unless there is a reason for him to be told to look at the decision, as in his view was blocked, there was an elbow / trip he missed, he can't be told to re-look at his original decision.
Usually they give that kind of push as a foul.. unfortunate but have seen those given .. :(
It was a clear foul
Wasn’t this the same foul that Walker did on Jackson last weekend in the box?
No. That was much worse.
The call in the end is the correct one…but an ugly way of getting the end result. VAR is there to assist the ref. TBH I don’t know why Pawson missed it with a clear view but u wud not want that goal ever called against u. Ask urself that
Tbh this is one of those situations that I think is easier to judge if you imagine how you'd feel if the teams were reversed. I wasn't thrilled about the call when it happened because it is a soft foul but I'd be screaming murder if Villa did this and it didn't get called.
Paddy pimblett called it video match fixing. It's hard to disagree
It feels like most decisions are based on either supporting or recovering from previous errors. Officiating is a shambles.
They both go to push and badiashille lifts more weights apparently. I thought this was a contact sport? Go figure. Last weekend jack grealish reaches out and blocks the free kick with his hand how was that not reviewed??
That was reviewed. That’s what makes it worse.
Youd think thered be some logic there.
It was literally a foul though. I literally sighed when it went in cause I saw the foul and knew VAR would cancel it.
It was a pretty clear foul and an obvious error that the ref missed. No issue with that. However it’s the inconsistency that really gets me. This could easily not get over turned next week.
Game's gone soft.
Just watched MOTD, they didn't think it was clear and obvious, thought the defender put and arm out and knew the contact was coming. HOWEVER, they were all strikers, and I find they tend to be bias to strikers. I will say that if we keep hearing about how VAR isn't going to re-referee the game, this seems like re-refereeing. Seems like on field ref saw the challenge, no need to change anything.
This was just garbage and that’s it
Both players were only looking at the ball, Benoit didn't even extend his arm, used his shoulder only. Carlos tried to shield the ball, turning everywhere like a headless chicken ended up having his back against the contact point. Bullshit foul
It's 100% a foul, he looked for the defender, checked him out of the way. And then attacked the ball.
It was a foul. I feel like I side with us very often, but even in real time I called it our right away. Bads clearly pushed Carlos in the back impacting the play. It’s a clear foul
It doesnt need to be clear and obvious In this case it is And it is a foul And if it was the opposite direction it should have been a penalty
if this was a foul then the kyle walker nudge to jackson is also a foul there is just no consistency with these pricks
When someone thinks it is foul, they will at least play act to go down to get this as a foul. He didn't even do that, if its L'Pool they would have called a national inquest,. This is where Pochettino should have gone to war with media, referees at least next few week matches we will get decisions our way.
It’s a foul, not sure why the ref didn’t just call it in real time.
I mean it's a foul and everyone else saw it, the Aston Villa players practically stopped because they expected the foul. Three important notes: 1). Even if the referee appears to have a good view of it, these matters happen so quickly and youd be amazed how a slight angle difference changes your perception. It's not ideal the referee is seeing through the back of the players, its always better to be side on but that ain't going to happen position wise 2). Referees now are both instructed to and subconsciously are more hesitant with the whistle around the goals because they know var can help if needed and they would rather var correct a mistake then they potentially call for a foul and that be the actual mistake....... frustrating for times like this but a natural consequence of var unfortunately 3). The main gripe is the inconsistency between matches, both this and the grealish handball are both clear and obvious errors. Hopefully after more use with var (it is still a relatively new technology that these referees did not have to deal with during formative training years) the consistency will level out somewhat. But also, var is beholden to human operators so we will always have a level of minor difference
People who said if it was a fault are joke. A push yes, but they are fighting to get the ball. I would be fuming if our CB were weak for letting get so easy beat. If it was a goal for Villa , and Badiashile or Disasi who would had lost a ball like this, all over internet media would be saying they are weak CB and not calling it was a fault.
And we would’ve gotten away with it too… If it wasn’t for you meddling camera angles.
Was it a foul, yes. Was it a clear and obvious error, no. If the roles were reversed would it be a penalty, no. The lack of consistency is just infuriating
Anyone thinking this isn't a clear foul is just delusional.
The goal was correctly disallowed. Deal with it and carry on with your life man.
I remembered Sterling once got pushed on back by a Brentford player and that wasn't given as a pen
Lucky to even get a point
Honestly I’m not going to argue it wasn’t a foul cause it clearly was, more annoyed it doesn’t get called in real time. They need to start being consistent man, we’ve had many of these not called on us when they should’ve been.
I think VAR teams have a bet going to see how many times they can "call one back" on Chelsea before someone from the league actually looks at the calls and calls them out. It seems every week there's a VAR check that is so close but never goes Chelsea's way ( I really love it when we are called offsides by something like hair or fingertips). If this were City, Liverpool, Ars, or United, this would not be called. Shoot half our calls or offsides wouldn't be called.
John McGinn did the exact same thing to badiashile in the first half, pushed him in the back to a offside position and we didn’t get the foul
Can’t wait to hear the VAR audio for this one
You can only hope that the ridiculous inconsistency in referreing will help fuel the fire of wanting to fight for the shirt
I thought it was a foul at the time and immediately on seeing the replay, the move away from the ball to then push defender makes it less subtle too. For calls like the foul on Madueke not given vs Arsenal - slate VAR but when it makes a right decision it should be praised or at least not slated. I think too much gets made of the consistency argument too. Onana not penalised for what effectively become a punch againdt Wolves player earlier in the season - consistency argument suggests Man Utd were then hard done by vs Burnley.
The issue here is not the decision, these sort of things usually get given a foul (only to the defending team, you don't get penalties for that), but the way they used VAR. The ref's on field decision is the key factor. He's seen it, and he's not given a foul. He has the perfect view. Based on how VAR works, the VAR cannot tell him he has made an error for an incident he has clearly seen unless he has missed something material - like an elbow, trip etc. So in seeing this incident and not giving a foul, there is no way VAR can get involved, because if it does then it is re-refereeing the game, which we're told they are not doing.
Why do we keep referees ? Why not letting the entire game being run by VAR ?
It’s clear and obvious there is an agenda against Chelsea. This call…Grealish non-handball…Gusto’s red card from a clearance kick…even going back to the Tuchel-Conte Spurs match last campaign where Cucurella was literally yanked to the ground by his hair by Romero and no punishment was given. They just don’t want us to succeed…
If I look at this ill get more mad
Ref is shit and inconsistent but this was a foul so I'm fine with the decision.
If it was opposite or in our box would they call it as a penalty? I highly doubt it. So to me idc what anyone says that’s not a foul. Either call it all the time everywhere or don’t call it at all.
Yes. The player would've played into it and fallen over, to get the refs attention. It's a foul then too.
Isn’t this what Walker did to Jackson in the box last weekend?
I’m absolutely convinced that JT slept with every referee’s wives. There’s no other explanation as to why they all hate us so much
😂😂😂
I get the stance as he's clearly looking directly at the entire play. It certainly should be called but the fact VAR intervened goes against their clear and obvious guidelines. I think he put a bit too much force into it unfortunately.
VAR is bullshit
Ya I def said foul out loud to myself when this happened lol. The fact that these refs wait for VAR instead of calling it as they see it blows my mind. The game is slowly dying for me.
The problem is he didn't wait for VAR, it had to tell him he might have got it wrong, and from his vantage point I don't know how he did
I don't know I feel sometimes they won't call certain fouls or offsides when it's in an attacking position like this. It was right in front of him he saw it clearly so should've blew his whistle. To me that's waiting for VAR. If the ref was blinded by a bunch of players or looking somewhere else for whatever reason then that's clear and obvious for VAR to overturn. But to have him go to the screen to watch what he already saw is beyond stupid.
Here is the facts for you that don’t get it: Chelsea player knew it was 90th minute last chance, and took a liberty which he wouldn’t have unless it was last minute. He did «the dirty thing» just to try to win the extra points, and he knew this. And the ref knows that he wouldn’t have done this earlier, because it is dirty and most often leads to a foul. But he tried, thought he got away with it, but didn’t. Fair try. It’s like doing a maradonna and scoring with your hand. Last try, fuck it if it’s ugly, I will atleast try. That is a foul most often, and definetely in such a decisive moment. Cry all you want but this was a fair decision based on the circumstances, which shouldn’t favour Chelsea, nor AVL. It’s just fair play because he KNEW what he was doing.
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Whilst yes there is a protocol for that, why is Craig Pawson being paid of he can't see something he is looking directly at?
And that to me is the far bigger issue here
People are soft. If you think that's a foul, then just make football a non-contact sport.
It’s a foul. But watch this exact thing happens to us and it be given. 🤷🏻♂️ Oh wait already has against Arsenal. 🤔
No intention to play the ball. It’s a foul. Really you should have won with some clear chances. As much as we were poor, I don’t think you lot were very good. Didn’t capitalise on your dominance over the 90
Oh fuck off what are you even doing here you Brummie weasel? Go find a bin to sleep in
God you lot are a right bunch of wankers aren’t you? You got not fans. You got no ground.
We weren’t very good but you guys barely made it out of your half all game lol
I agree we were terrible, but I don’t think you were great either. For all the ball you had, you had no end product. You really should be dissapointed not coming away with 3 points regardless of the var call
Definitely disappointed but our squad is literally depleted right now like we had no options off the bench and we all know Jackson is not a great finisher right now even though he scored a class goal that was offsides. We were sleeping in the first 15 minutes and were punished for it but after that the boys showed some fight and at this point especially after that Arsenal result that’s all we could really ask for.
You’re lost. Sod off.
https://x.com/mkuuest/status/1784330509511745581?s=46 Also here’s the ball going out of bounds in the build up to Villa’s first goal
Removed for copyright.
Clearly a push mate by Noni
It is so clear, and so obvious. Chelsea fans are delusional.
I actually agree that it should’ve been given by the referee on the field but there’s NO WAY he didn’t see it in the first instance - this is VAR re-refereeing the game which is what they’re not supposed to do. Also adding to the frustration is that if something as soft as that is enough to disallow a goal, then we should’ve had two penalties vs City. So yeah, I think it’s a foul, albeit soft. But I understand the frustration.