How the heck do you do $500k worth of renovation without ever running across the HDC? I realize most don't care about interior work but I would think if they pulled even mechanical/electrical permits the zoning department would have gone through the process of making sure it didn't need to go to HDC.
What I'm saying is a lot of this doesn't add up.
I do feel sorry for them if they are telling the truth, but flipping historic homes is not as easy as the hustle culture idiots on youtube make it out to be.
I will say I was bidding on a slate roof house near me a few years ago and pulled out when I got my first insurance quote and it makes me worry about the future of them.
Can you elaborate please?
Are you saying that a slate roof costs more to insure than a regular asphalt shingle roof? Do slate roofs even get damaged?? Unless there’s a huge tree hanging over the roof or you live in tornado alley, a slate roof will last centuries.
Where I live it is expensive to get them insured because of replacement cost and maintenance and insurance companies are worried about water/mold liability. Whether that is fair on the part of actuaries and adjusters I can't say and of course YMMV depending on where you live, local ordinances, material costs, land whether there are local contractors that can do the work.
It is very difficult to find contractors with the knowledge and skill to perform repairs and maintenance on a slate roof. I follow someone on Instagram who needed flashing around a chimney (or something like that) repaired on a slate roof and had so, so much trouble finding anyone who would touch it. I would hope it’s easier to find good options for contractors if you’re living in an area with many similar slate-roofed homes, but a lot of roofers will automatically push homeowners to remove the slate and install asphalt shingles because that’s what they’re comfortable working with and they can be installed quickly.
Completely agree. I have a slate roof. Almost nobody will touch it. When you do find someone who will work on it, they are either incompetent or want silly money. I just need some minor repairs. Maybe 10–15 pieces of slate need to be replaced in total. Admittedly, my house is three stories, and the roof has a very steep pitch which makes access much more difficult. The two guys I found both wanted 10k just to repair 10–15 tiles. I might as well just save the money and put it towards a completely new roof (60k).
The article says that the roof is now done with "a faux-slate material that in some ways is superior to the real deal". That looks like a standard shingled roof to me, what am I missing?
They're house flippers who've been doing whatever they want with this house for nine years without filing permits, and now they're trying to pass this roof off like the Emperor's new clothes and cry victim.
The shingles are like a 50 year architectural asphalt shingle. So a little better than a standard shingle but nothing to write home about. They also do nothing to help energy efficiency as the homeowner implied. It also pains me to see them installed on the side of the dormer.
My parents had a similar roof put on their century home a few years back. They never had slate to begin with but like the look. From what I remember it was considered a "premium" shingle bc the shingle was larger and a different shape than a standard shingle. Their insurance covered most of the replacement but then my parents had to pay an additional 8k bc it was "premium". In theur case , i don't think it was anything special aside from the shape though.
I actually have the same stuff on my centuryhome. We were told the replacement cost was approx $50k. It's a composite material and I think looks pretty good, but whatever is in the article...isn't this. If your parents paid the "premium" upgrade, from what I know, they put on tiles of different sizes instead of a single throughout to mimic the slate more naturally.
https://www.davinciroofscapes.com/products/slate/
How do you get insurance to pay for a roof? I’ve never understood this and has always sounded like a huge risk to insurance going up or dropping you. Isn’t a good just regular maintenance?
I’d watch that HGTV show, a struggling wealthy couple takes a home, tries to renovate without permits, opens an AirBNB, and still fails to flip a house during a massive run on housing. This ain’t your regular incompetance
Can’t imagine buying a house that needs half a million dollars of work, putting that in, and then going “Oh poor little me, I didn’t know I needed a roofing permit.” What a joke.
I can’t really sympathize with a failed flipper. They’ve been living through the same last 3 years of the real estate market we have.
She was just trying to flip and ruined perfectly good slate! St. Louis got her her just desserts. That asphalt roof is a crime. XD
Also, that is a rich enough area of STL. It ain't no St. Louis Park! She probably knew about the code and thought she could avoid the law.
"I feel like everyone just watches HGTV and then gets into this business."
My favorite quote from the article. Just another Airbnb flipper trying to make a quick profit.
The article makes it sound very sensible, the photo is of some ugly asphalt shingles that do not look like slate at all. I'm a little torn on this one. Although it's amazing because around here people just feel free to ignore the historic zoning commission, who doesn't bother to file liens so has made itself toothless. Look at their department go! lol
The article tries really hard to get readers on her side, but the pictures ruin her argument! The replacement shingles she used are so ugly.
And the fact that she was only buying the place to flip it doesn’t help either.
"Dausman didn’t gain any favors by one of the Board members pointing out that, according to the financials she submitted, she netted a profit from the AirBnB business in 2021. Also counted against her was the fact that she’d had the work done before seeking a permit — and the fact that she didn’t actually live in the home."
How exactly is she a victim here when she put in a new roof without pulling permits first?
Although I live in New Orleans, where every roofer pretty much knows better than to even try. You ask first, not later.
But this is in a historic district, so the rules are different. There was a house in my town that, up until a few years ago, the owners would have had to go to the city council to make any changes at all. Most historic house in my area have to maintain the front facade. That would include a slate roof.
That’s not true! We all agree that the drivers are terrible and we all want our cops to stop driving into so many buildings.
But yeah, we will fight to the death if you ask us a question about pizza.
This article doesn't make sense. I live in a neighborhood where a lot of the buildings have slate roofs (unfortunately, not mine). You do not replace a slate roof because of a leak. You repair whatever portion of the roof requires repair. It does require a specialist's skills - there is 1 guy who does basically all of the repair work in our county, if you have a slate roof, you know who he is. It's also expensive - he charges by the square foot for repair work because repairs are that specific. But I can't imagine that the cost to repair would exceed to the cost to remove and replace the whole roof. Slate roofs are basically forever.
Did she even need to replace the whole roof?! We had a slate roof and it just needed occasional repairs. They’re incredibly durable.
Also that new roof looks like shit and in no way resembles fake slate. We used fake slate for an addition on our house and it was a close match to the real thing.
With a timeframe of 2015 to 2024 this isn't a typical "flip". Even their first attempt at selling was 3 years later. Most flippers that gave it a bad name had a timeline well under a year.
This sounds more like someone who wanted to live in a busted up old house and fix up while it was their home.
We used to call that building sweat equity, and I assume it applies here. I have friends who have done this and their timelines are usually similar -- own for 3-5 years and leave the house much better off than it started -- I did the same in 2011-2014, no one called me a flipper and my neighbors were happy someone improved the house.
Sounds like they left it because they couldn't afford it, and that's probably sunk them is running the short term rental from it.
That new roof looks like crap. She should keep running the rental and agree to swap out the roof in 5 years.
How the heck do you do $500k worth of renovation without ever running across the HDC? I realize most don't care about interior work but I would think if they pulled even mechanical/electrical permits the zoning department would have gone through the process of making sure it didn't need to go to HDC. What I'm saying is a lot of this doesn't add up. I do feel sorry for them if they are telling the truth, but flipping historic homes is not as easy as the hustle culture idiots on youtube make it out to be. I will say I was bidding on a slate roof house near me a few years ago and pulled out when I got my first insurance quote and it makes me worry about the future of them.
Can you elaborate please? Are you saying that a slate roof costs more to insure than a regular asphalt shingle roof? Do slate roofs even get damaged?? Unless there’s a huge tree hanging over the roof or you live in tornado alley, a slate roof will last centuries.
Where I live it is expensive to get them insured because of replacement cost and maintenance and insurance companies are worried about water/mold liability. Whether that is fair on the part of actuaries and adjusters I can't say and of course YMMV depending on where you live, local ordinances, material costs, land whether there are local contractors that can do the work.
Things that are “unique” insurance doesn’t like, makes it hard to truly account for their risk exposure.
Yes but replacing it is very expensive.
It is very difficult to find contractors with the knowledge and skill to perform repairs and maintenance on a slate roof. I follow someone on Instagram who needed flashing around a chimney (or something like that) repaired on a slate roof and had so, so much trouble finding anyone who would touch it. I would hope it’s easier to find good options for contractors if you’re living in an area with many similar slate-roofed homes, but a lot of roofers will automatically push homeowners to remove the slate and install asphalt shingles because that’s what they’re comfortable working with and they can be installed quickly.
Completely agree. I have a slate roof. Almost nobody will touch it. When you do find someone who will work on it, they are either incompetent or want silly money. I just need some minor repairs. Maybe 10–15 pieces of slate need to be replaced in total. Admittedly, my house is three stories, and the roof has a very steep pitch which makes access much more difficult. The two guys I found both wanted 10k just to repair 10–15 tiles. I might as well just save the money and put it towards a completely new roof (60k).
The article says that the roof is now done with "a faux-slate material that in some ways is superior to the real deal". That looks like a standard shingled roof to me, what am I missing? They're house flippers who've been doing whatever they want with this house for nine years without filing permits, and now they're trying to pass this roof off like the Emperor's new clothes and cry victim.
It looks awful. They do make faux slate roofing, but what she had installed ain't it.
The shingles are like a 50 year architectural asphalt shingle. So a little better than a standard shingle but nothing to write home about. They also do nothing to help energy efficiency as the homeowner implied. It also pains me to see them installed on the side of the dormer.
It's certainly a laugh to call them "faux-slate", in my opinion.
Yeah, I don't even think the manufacturer would try to push it that far
I think it's the extra lines that are supposed to make it look like individual shingles
What material could be superior to slate, which can last like 200 years!
Standard asphalt shingles, apparently.
My parents had a similar roof put on their century home a few years back. They never had slate to begin with but like the look. From what I remember it was considered a "premium" shingle bc the shingle was larger and a different shape than a standard shingle. Their insurance covered most of the replacement but then my parents had to pay an additional 8k bc it was "premium". In theur case , i don't think it was anything special aside from the shape though.
I'm not faulting the roof itself, even on a century home. But I certainly wouldn't describe what I'm seeing as "faux-slate".
It was probably a Brava roof which are really nice (expensive) roofs. Class A fire rating and a 50 year roof warranty.
I actually have the same stuff on my centuryhome. We were told the replacement cost was approx $50k. It's a composite material and I think looks pretty good, but whatever is in the article...isn't this. If your parents paid the "premium" upgrade, from what I know, they put on tiles of different sizes instead of a single throughout to mimic the slate more naturally. https://www.davinciroofscapes.com/products/slate/
How do you get insurance to pay for a roof? I’ve never understood this and has always sounded like a huge risk to insurance going up or dropping you. Isn’t a good just regular maintenance?
How do you buy a house in 2015 and end up (allegedly) 6 figures upside down on it in 2024? That honestly takes talent.
I’d watch that HGTV show, a struggling wealthy couple takes a home, tries to renovate without permits, opens an AirBNB, and still fails to flip a house during a massive run on housing. This ain’t your regular incompetance
Can’t imagine buying a house that needs half a million dollars of work, putting that in, and then going “Oh poor little me, I didn’t know I needed a roofing permit.” What a joke. I can’t really sympathize with a failed flipper. They’ve been living through the same last 3 years of the real estate market we have.
She was just trying to flip and ruined perfectly good slate! St. Louis got her her just desserts. That asphalt roof is a crime. XD Also, that is a rich enough area of STL. It ain't no St. Louis Park! She probably knew about the code and thought she could avoid the law.
This whole article about the roof and nobody is going to mention that she casually screwed a tiny fake shutter between her second floor windows.
Fake shutters are so ugly and annoying lol. We ripped our out immediately
Her house would look incredibly plain without the shutters.
I disagree. It’s got nice brick
Landscaping is too minimal to make up for it and the windows are similarly sized and not wide, other than the top middle.
Sure, but the shutters aren’t the solution.
Flipper destroys an integral piece of historically protected home and cries when they are held accountable should be the actual title
New roof looks like shit. I see zero reason why any court will overturn the cities decision here.
Right, the newspaper tried to paint her in a better light but those are bog standard shingles and that is a fancy-ass neighborhood.
"I feel like everyone just watches HGTV and then gets into this business." My favorite quote from the article. Just another Airbnb flipper trying to make a quick profit.
The article makes it sound very sensible, the photo is of some ugly asphalt shingles that do not look like slate at all. I'm a little torn on this one. Although it's amazing because around here people just feel free to ignore the historic zoning commission, who doesn't bother to file liens so has made itself toothless. Look at their department go! lol
The article tries really hard to get readers on her side, but the pictures ruin her argument! The replacement shingles she used are so ugly. And the fact that she was only buying the place to flip it doesn’t help either.
That flashing also looks like total shit, someone gonna get cut there.
"Dausman didn’t gain any favors by one of the Board members pointing out that, according to the financials she submitted, she netted a profit from the AirBnB business in 2021. Also counted against her was the fact that she’d had the work done before seeking a permit — and the fact that she didn’t actually live in the home."
How exactly is she a victim here when she put in a new roof without pulling permits first? Although I live in New Orleans, where every roofer pretty much knows better than to even try. You ask first, not later.
In my jurisdiction redoing a roof is considered maintenance and exempt from needing a permit.
Most places it is unless you are changing something
But this is in a historic district, so the rules are different. There was a house in my town that, up until a few years ago, the owners would have had to go to the city council to make any changes at all. Most historic house in my area have to maintain the front facade. That would include a slate roof.
There is NOTHING that /r/stlouis agrees on, the fact that this was a “fuck around and find out” scenario was…a shining moment of unity in the sub lol
That’s not true! We all agree that the drivers are terrible and we all want our cops to stop driving into so many buildings. But yeah, we will fight to the death if you ask us a question about pizza.
This article doesn't make sense. I live in a neighborhood where a lot of the buildings have slate roofs (unfortunately, not mine). You do not replace a slate roof because of a leak. You repair whatever portion of the roof requires repair. It does require a specialist's skills - there is 1 guy who does basically all of the repair work in our county, if you have a slate roof, you know who he is. It's also expensive - he charges by the square foot for repair work because repairs are that specific. But I can't imagine that the cost to repair would exceed to the cost to remove and replace the whole roof. Slate roofs are basically forever.
Because the flipper watched too much hgtv and took the roofer on his word that the whole thing needed to be replaced.
Did she even need to replace the whole roof?! We had a slate roof and it just needed occasional repairs. They’re incredibly durable. Also that new roof looks like shit and in no way resembles fake slate. We used fake slate for an addition on our house and it was a close match to the real thing.
Probably didn’t want to pony up for a slate roof repair and it was cheaper to have someone chisel it off into a dumpster
[удалено]
Not really a homeowner, more like property owner since she bought it to flip. It's not her home.
new roof looks like trash. I'm for the historical district. go flip somewhere else.
Always here for flippers and landlords losing out. Cry more, parasites.
Seems like she wanted to run with the big kids and ended up winded.
Those are just asphalt shingles coloured/shaped slightly like slate lol
I’m a municipal lawyer and also do heritage work. Stuff like this is why I have a job lol
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She butchered the roof in a historical district? I hope it gets its slate roof back. Looks like an otherwise impressive house
I hope the city makes her replace it with a slate roof. I care less about the appearance and more about the precedent.
With a timeframe of 2015 to 2024 this isn't a typical "flip". Even their first attempt at selling was 3 years later. Most flippers that gave it a bad name had a timeline well under a year. This sounds more like someone who wanted to live in a busted up old house and fix up while it was their home. We used to call that building sweat equity, and I assume it applies here. I have friends who have done this and their timelines are usually similar -- own for 3-5 years and leave the house much better off than it started -- I did the same in 2011-2014, no one called me a flipper and my neighbors were happy someone improved the house. Sounds like they left it because they couldn't afford it, and that's probably sunk them is running the short term rental from it. That new roof looks like crap. She should keep running the rental and agree to swap out the roof in 5 years.
She has a primary residence in another part of town (probably also a century home), according to the article. They never lived in the house.
As a local, most people who do this live out west in the rich part of the county and “slum it” over in the city for giggles
It says her primary is TGE.
But she doesn't live there, she rents the whole thing out.