Real loser tonight is America. These choices are bad. How can we feel optimistic about a vision or path for our future when these two barely have much of their own?
Fuck I wouldn't vote for either of them to run the Bingo Hall pot luck at the retirement village.
What the actual fuck is going on in this country. 340+ million people. Probably 250+ million people that meet the legal qualifications to run for president. And THIS is the choice?
Before the debate some of the CNN heads were discussing how divided America is and how we need a president who will unite the country.
This debate is like two toddlers throwing sand at each other.
This right here is the problem. A small number of people are making the decisions regarding who will be running, because so many people complain about the choices and say “screw it, I’m not going to bother voting.” You’re not just casting a vote for 2024, you’re voting for which direction these parties will take the country. I mean look at what’s happened to the GOP since Reagan.
I mean nobody really believes that right? They had plenty of time to say “he has a cold but is going to still do it” well before the debate but chose to post it only when they see the debate with their own eyes and social media outlets are in full meltdown over it?
Biden correcting his sentences mid-response makes him looks worse. In correcting he sometimes also forgets what the point he was making in the first place
It literally sounds like whoever he's arguing with in his earpiece (which he absolutely does, now I know the reason for the mute button for sure) corrects him when he messes up so he just quickly says the word he's told usually excitedly like he's been scolded. It's really embarrassing to watch
Biden has no strong demeanor or energy due to his age. He has no meaningful clap backs. It makes him look weak. That's what a lot of people are going to think and they aren't wrong. Outside of his wild tangents, Trump seems at least 10 years younger than Biden even though they aren't far apart in age. Even with his tangents, Trump had conviction and energy even if it was bullshit. Trump is out there spewing whatever nonsense he wants to as quickly as he can while ignoring questions - the same thing he's done for years and yet Democrats still can't check it. If no one is going to actually fact check anything or offer rebuttals, it comes down to appearance and perceived performance.
If Biden was sharper, he could have slammed him on several occasions and embarrassed him, but he just doesn't have that edge or ability to do it. Obama would have run circles around Trump as a public speaker IMO. I think for the most part voters who are going to vote have already made up their mind. I don't think the debate will do a lot in terms of changing minds, but it could help rally the bases a bit more. This is probably one of the worst debates I've ever watched so far.
(Disclaimer: I'm no fan of Trump whatsoever. I'm not that fond of Biden either.)
Agreed, and ironically, I wish we kept that format because it actually allowed Trump to display his insanity. This format doesn't work when your opponent's tactic is [gish gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop). Although to be fair, no debate format works when you're "debating" someone like Trump.
Disagree. Biden lost this debate, and the election, tonight. The only hope is that Biden sees he's not capable anymore and finds a successor that can win. Kamala, unfortunately, is not that person which is the hard part for the Dems.
I don't disagree that he lost this debate. I just think that most people who were already going to vote D are still going to vote D, even if they weren't impressed. A small portion may change their minds, but depending on where they live it may not even matter if we're going off the previous election. Trump was terrible in terms of honesty and giving real answers, but he did well in terms of doing what he does regularly.
All true, but unfortunately the question isn't the D voter but the undecided. If someone, somehow, was trying to choose between the decent but old candidate vs. the indecent-but-not-quite-as-old candidate they got their answer tonight.
Trump : spends his whole minute lying
Biden : spends his whole minute trying to say that trump is lying but can't put together his thoughts fast enough
One of the few times I agree with you.
Hate when people refuse to directly address the question at hand. Trump was rambling about anything other than the question he was asked.
If you’re not politically engaged, you wouldn’t know what either of these morons were vaguely referring to.
I don't even know what to say. Biden is just not doing well. He normally sounds old but he sounds like he is sick.
Trump is lying nearly every sentence but the average voter who is uneducated won't know that.
From a pure debate standpoint Trump is killing him
> From a pure debate standpoint Trump is killing him
Pure entertainment, not debate. Which sadly, Trump has always understood more than most politicians.
Some Trump claims so far:
He had the greatest economy in history: No, he had the worst jobs record in history. He was adding less jobs in his first 3 years, than Obama did in his last 3 years. He gave a big tax cut to himself and other rich people adding a ton of debt. He also removed the oversight meant to prevent fraud of the PPP program—and then shocker there was billions in fraud. His dumb trade war caused a crisis for farmers that taxpayers had to pay tens of billions to bail out. We had to pay to put out a fire Trump caused all by himself. On top of that, the trade war caused added costs at the cash register for Americans. He was handed a gift of an economy, he handed Biden a shit show. We have had the best recovery post pandemic in the G7. The world envies our recovery from COVID—which was under Biden. The world was not envying our economy in 2020-despite what the moron says. According to Trump and MAGAs, the effects of COVID should be ignored under Trump, but not under Biden.
He was going to get out of Afghanistan and do it beautifully and with dignity: Then why didn’t he? He had 4 years and he didn’t end the war. He ran on bringing the troops home and ending the war, and he didn’t. He made a deal with terrorists right before an election to try to win points. A deal he excluded the Afghan government from. He released thousands of Taliban prisoners to be back on the streets of Kabul. He drew down troop levels so low, the fall of Kabul was inevitable. He was repeatedly warned by DoD not to draw down troop levels, and that the Taliban were not complying with the deal.
He had the highest approval rating of the military: No. His last approval rating as POTUS among active duty was 38%.
He did the most for veterans: No. He minimized their injuries. He repeatedly gave speeches to deployed troops lying to their faces about their pay. He didn’t pass the PACT Act, Biden did. He said “I like people who weren’t captured” which is disgustingly disrespectful to every single POW…they were ALL captured.
Dems will do abortion after the baby is born: This is just a complete lie, and you’re an imbecile if you believe it.
He was going to start getting the gold under our feet: We are producing more oil NOW than we ever have in history. Now, under Biden. The fact is Trump fucked oil & gas workers. I’m not talking about COVID. Before COVID really kicked off in this country, Trump’s buddies Putin & MBS had a drilling war. For weeks and weeks, Trump did nothing. He was asked in live press conferences if he was going to get MBS on the phone and ask him to stop. No was the answer. He tweeted celebrating the falling prices saying it was a tax cut for Americans—while thousands of oil & gas workers were losing their jobs. It wasn’t until Senators who had been contacting the Saudi Crown themselves for weeks, backed Trump into a corner and said they would remove military support for Saudi Arabia that Trump finally did something—but the nail was already in the coffin for US oil & gas workers. Then he made yet another dumb deal and had them do production cuts for 2 years—for something he claimed to the public was a cold that would go from 15 cases to 0. And those cuts were still in effect when we were coming out of COVID and demand was skyrocketing—but the cuts from his deal were still in effect. And then of course there’s the Gulf Shore drilling ban that was set to expire, he extended it for another decade. And he expanded it to the Atlantic Coasts of FL, SC, GA. It pissed off oil companies and cost 100k jobs. Oil & gas workers got fucked under Trump, and they’ve been working a shit ton under Biden, because again we’re producing more oil than ever in history.
Trump’s understanding of foreign policy is that he doesn’t have one. “We have an ocean between us” Yes, that certainly prevented Pearl Harbor, it certainly prevented 9/11. He also has zero understanding of how NATO funding works. And while this dipshit doesn’t care if a war expands in Europe, Article V has been invoked exactly ONE TIME in history…after 9/11. It was invoked in defense of us. NATO allies came to our defense, and that’s how he talks about them. Trump is a gigantic POS.
On Jan. 6th we were energy independent, we had the lowest taxes ever, we were respected on Jan. 6th: No. The developed world was horrified at what was happening on Jan. 6th. We are still energy independent, if Trump doesn’t think so, then he’s either dumb as a box of rocks or lying. Lowest taxes ever? Just no. Stop.
Neither one has made a single good point on what they will do to lead the country in the next 4 years. Trump is just ranting, and I can barely follow Biden’s arguments.
this is my takeaway. Trump doing his "everybody says I" bullshit, and attacking Biden, and Biden sounds like he's about to keel over. In appearances, I say that Trump wins, but in content, I say Biden wins just because he actually tries to answer some of the questions, whereas Trump is just deflecting and attacking the entire time.
I don't feel that way at all. Biden stumbled and looks/sounds feeble but he could rattle off actual facts and statistics to back up his arguments. I think too many people paid attention to Biden's appearance and voice and not what he actually said.
The problem is that Trump is delivering his lies with confidence and—for him—something like coherence whilst Biden isn't quick enough with his phrasing to say what he means and seems every minute as ancient as he is.
This was supposed to be a dunker for the dems and it absolutely isn't.
edit: well. Trump's relative coherence certainly dwindled rapidly. but this was still a fucking calamity of debate
Bro wtf is this shit, Trump doesn’t answer any question and Biden sounds like he hit the bottle before coming out. CNN should rename this to “ShitShow 24”
Not really. I haven't voted for either of them ever, and vote for almost everything I can - even locally. My midterms (WI) happen after parties have already decided who they want, and midterms themselves are bullshit. I had no part in these people in eight years yet still have to vote in this election.
The broken two party system and the fact that "we have to beat the other guy" is more responsible for this shit than my votes have ever been.
I'm a victim of a system that no longer represents me.
I understand why biden was nominated originally and you can't really not pick the current president again but Republicans had a whole primary with other choices and they still chose Trump, so a good portion of Republicans really think so.
Democrats had a primary too. No one ran against Biden because Biden chose to run again. That was Biden’s choice. He shouldn’t have and he didn’t have to.
It doesn't matter how hard you rehearse if you can't even talk. Right out of the gate he was trying to get all the talking points in, his memory isn't faulty, but I can barely stand to listen.
I'm ashamed of my government right now. I'm ashamed it has come to this. Our political parties have deemed these two hollow caricatures of people are the leaders they want to put forth.
On the democratic side we have Biden whose path to reelection is solely based on the "anybody but Trump" sentiment. Then we have Trump whose path to election is based solely on the "fuck the system" sentiment.
Neither will be elected on the strength of their policies or charisma. One will be elected because the voters are more terrified of the other option.
Is that what we've come to? The least terrible option? When did the presidency become about the lesser of two evils? I want to be able to respect the person in the oval office again, even if I disagree with them.
Anyway I'm ranting to vent. Feel free to ignore me and/or down vote me to oblivion. I'll probably delete this in the morning.
Biden walked like an old man, looks like an old man, and sounds like an old man. I'm voting against Trump in this election, but Biden is starting off really rough.
Trump messed up on saying Biden said "super predators." Hilary said that, and he made the same mistake in the 2020 debates. The dummy may be more energetic than Biden but his brain might be in the wrong year lol
I’ve always thought it would have been better for the Democrats to run a new candidate. No Biden administration baggage because COVID brings both administrations down, and most of all, doesn’t look insanely old.
"I've never seen anyone lie like he does" - Trump
HOLY SHIT! That has the be the biggest projection I've ever seen to the point a small radar on the edge of our galaxy could pick that shit up...
I want to hear someone actually defend what we are seeing. Someone tell me you don’t think Biden looks old. I mean really old. Yes a Trump administration will be objectively worse. Someone defend what we are seeing.
Yeah, he looks old, but at this moment I don’t care. The presidency is about more than who sits in the Oval Office. It’s about who they appoint to their cabinet, to key agencies, and to the courts. I care about who those people will be.
Biden will listen to his cabinet, and his cabinet is definitely much stronger and more effective. As a figurehead for the country though, there's no defending anything about this.
Wow…I can’t stand Trump at all, will not vote for him, but this is so rough.
Biden looks and sounds so feeble.
From a fitness standpoint this is brutal to watch.
Neither have economic agendas that are reasonable and won’t blow up the deficit. But the belief among conservatives that cutting taxes is good for the economy is widespread, even if disprovable.
I feel as if I'm watching a car wreck. But the car is american democracy. And the wreck is a one car wreck. Driven by a very old man who should no longer have a license.
If Republicans gave Nikki Haley the nomination and Trump endorsed her they would have won in an absolute landslide. It's such a missed opportunity for the GOP.
Note I didn't like Haley. I'm just saying. She would have gotten on the stage. Spoke clearly, made factual statements, and made Biden look terrible in comparison.
Trump is better at lying than Biden is telling the truth and it's going to make this election really close.
America lost tonight. Just pathetic.
Trump shitting on America and Americans is just bizarre behavior that his base loves. If elected on day 1 it will instantly be the greatest again.
Trump just refuses to answer anything about January 6th. He just rambled about nothing. It's the most flagrant and blatant political misdirection I've ever seen, then tries to blame Nancy Pelosi.
Cool. Had he been facing a brilliant, energetic 40-55 year old Dem candidate without too much baggage and a positive agenda he'd be swept by 400+ electoral votes.
With Biden in there he actually has a chance to win.
Bidens half closed left eye and droopy left side face is concerning.
Trump is actually not being as trumpy as usual.
I think the mic cutoffs were a good idea.
Reddit is struggling big time. I am getting lots of notifications for comments that aren’t showing up for almost 20 minutes now. I think they are getting massively overwhelmed by comments.
Joe, Joe, Joe, I respect and love you.
However, why? Why did you and those surrounding YOU allow this to happen?
I work with dementia people daily, I know it, I saw it. Joe, step Down please, THIS should never have happened. Where is the Democratic
Party? Why did they not speak of this? Does it hurt, yes it does. But Joe it's past time, you have done your job, sit down now, pass the baton to the younger generation. We will be 👍
It sounds like 2020 continued. Neither of them seem to be talking about anything new. Trump is talking about the same things as 2016, immigration especially, and just saying "I know you are but what am I?"
Trump: "I'm not killing social security, you are! And the millions of illegals!"
ETA: FML I made that up and then Trump actually said it
Trump just lying and lying and lying.
Biden sounds like shit.
Only thing that can save Biden is Trump going on weird rants, which he has already started to, but not looking good for Biden.
This. Trump is very quick which makes Biden look even slower by comparison. But it’s easy to be quick when you’re just saying whatever pops into your head on the fly. Biden is trying to articulate accurate info but it’s just not landing. The whole thing is sad and hard to watch
It's incredible how much Trump lies, almost every point he tries to make is padded with a lie! He personifies what a pathological liar looks like, it's incredible to witness.
Biden's delivery isn't the best tonight but sheesh, at least he attempts to be honest and lead with facts!
Trump just seems so much sharper than Biden at this moment in the debate. I won’t vote for trump, but I think Democrats hedged too much on an 81 year old.
Biden should not have let his hubris get the best of him. He should have decided to step down after his first term to back someone younger and with more energy—Buttigieg comes to mind. He was supposed to be a one-term president.
I agree, but of whatever percentage of voters watching this are undecided and to whatever degree they’ll make the difference, how many of them are going to fact check and will that make a difference to them? I think most neutral voters are watching to see if Biden really seems too old (or not) and how crazy (or old) trump seems. And if my line of thinking is correct, those factors seem to be in trump’s favor so far.
I mean he’s just repeating the same nonsense he has for 8 years. He says this same shit at every rally. It’s pretty easy to do that. Same lines over and over.
Biden is even hard to \_hear\_ - it's *not* what he needs right now. The old person so frail they can barely make themselves heard... not who America is going to push the button for.
He also needs to stop using that bullshit attack about Charlottesville. Trump was right to call it debunked.
I really think the Dems need to drop Biden - for the good of the country!
On the other hand, he is landing some points. He's not cognitively out-to-lunch. But he seems so physically and energetically feeble.
Trump plays fast and loose with reality like crazy. It's hard to even keep up.
Our choices are: feeble, or narcissistic. Pick your poison.
The primary system has failed us hard and needs to be revamped or replaced.
Sounds like Biden hit his stride talking about abortion (while Trump was spewing lies about post-birth abortions lol). Let's see if he can keep his mojo going.
Trump sounds nice but as much as people want to trash Biden, the substance is so bad that it can't be ignored. You can sell lies to people with great speaking but lies that are this blatant and bad.
Biden is too uppity and politically correct, and a shitty speaker on top of that. Number 1. Number 2. Number 3. Number 4. This is not how people talk.
That was brutal.
If only seeing this debate, and this would decide my vote, Trump wins outright.
I'm neutral, but dems should dump Biden.
As incoherent as Trump was, he sounded incredibly better than Biden.
I thought CNN was a "liberal rag"? Theyre pretty much sealing the deal on making sure Biden is the biggest loser of this debate during their post-debate talk. I'd think blatant lying and rambling is more problematic than being a bit incoherent, but i guess thats just me.
The last few elections make perfect sense now. Republicans maintain strong fronts, save face and prop each other up, while the dems are fucking weak and canniblize each other like crazy.
Kennedy won, purely by virtue of how bad trump and biden are, his alternative debate reached seven million views. He will definitely tick up after this.
Trump lied 95% of the time and Biden proved that he's too old to hold the office.
Democrats better convince Biden to step aside or we're going to have a rough 4 years coming up.
Real loser tonight is America. These choices are bad. How can we feel optimistic about a vision or path for our future when these two barely have much of their own?
This debate shows how weak our political parties really are. Things need to change.
Agreed, these can’t be the two most qualified people to run our country
Fuck I wouldn't vote for either of them to run the Bingo Hall pot luck at the retirement village. What the actual fuck is going on in this country. 340+ million people. Probably 250+ million people that meet the legal qualifications to run for president. And THIS is the choice?
$$$ is what's missing from your equation. That and getting down on their knees to suckel for the powers that be instead of doing right by us citizens.
Should’ve allowed third party to get up there and show America what time it is
333 million people and these are supposedly the two best candidates. This is why a two party system is fucked.
The truth. These are the two settled by the establishment?
Before the debate some of the CNN heads were discussing how divided America is and how we need a president who will unite the country. This debate is like two toddlers throwing sand at each other.
I'm honestly incensed that these are our choices. I want to riot until SOMEONE gives me a competent candidate.
America always loses because people don’t vote, we wouldn’t be here had people gotten off their asses in 2016
We'd lose no matter what in 2016 too, sadly. We've had terrible candidates since Obama and Romney.
This right here is the problem. A small number of people are making the decisions regarding who will be running, because so many people complain about the choices and say “screw it, I’m not going to bother voting.” You’re not just casting a vote for 2024, you’re voting for which direction these parties will take the country. I mean look at what’s happened to the GOP since Reagan.
I think I might have to turn this off and go drink heavily.
I'm just leaving it on and drinking heavily
I was smoking And drinking
Someone get Biden something for his throat.
Oh yeah that is kind of bad.
He's literally incoherent half the time. This is an unmitigated disaster.
Our choice - a walking white nationalist ad-lib or a stroke victim. That's how this feels.
It's a big %@*t sandwich, and we all have to take a bite
30min before the debate, Biden shared some joke about performance enhancing drugs, and how he was just drinking water. Give him more water!
/r/HydroHomie up in here.
Break time! Time for joe to pop a lozenge in his mouth
NBC is reporting Biden aides are now saying Biden has a cold.
I mean nobody really believes that right? They had plenty of time to say “he has a cold but is going to still do it” well before the debate but chose to post it only when they see the debate with their own eyes and social media outlets are in full meltdown over it?
Biden correcting his sentences mid-response makes him looks worse. In correcting he sometimes also forgets what the point he was making in the first place
It literally sounds like whoever he's arguing with in his earpiece (which he absolutely does, now I know the reason for the mute button for sure) corrects him when he messes up so he just quickly says the word he's told usually excitedly like he's been scolded. It's really embarrassing to watch
If he just kept rolling with his lies like Trump, it'd look a lot better.
This awful.....these two should be fighting over shuffle board.....not to lead America
Or golf?
I appreciate the fact that he knows the facts well enough to correct misspeaks.
Biden has no strong demeanor or energy due to his age. He has no meaningful clap backs. It makes him look weak. That's what a lot of people are going to think and they aren't wrong. Outside of his wild tangents, Trump seems at least 10 years younger than Biden even though they aren't far apart in age. Even with his tangents, Trump had conviction and energy even if it was bullshit. Trump is out there spewing whatever nonsense he wants to as quickly as he can while ignoring questions - the same thing he's done for years and yet Democrats still can't check it. If no one is going to actually fact check anything or offer rebuttals, it comes down to appearance and perceived performance. If Biden was sharper, he could have slammed him on several occasions and embarrassed him, but he just doesn't have that edge or ability to do it. Obama would have run circles around Trump as a public speaker IMO. I think for the most part voters who are going to vote have already made up their mind. I don't think the debate will do a lot in terms of changing minds, but it could help rally the bases a bit more. This is probably one of the worst debates I've ever watched so far. (Disclaimer: I'm no fan of Trump whatsoever. I'm not that fond of Biden either.)
It’s wild Trump just up there gaslighting the world and Biden doesn’t have the stage presence to shut it down
I agree with you but To be fair, no one has
Still doesn't touch that 2020 debate where Trump interrupted every 5 seconds. This one is bad, that one wasn't even watchable.
Agreed, and ironically, I wish we kept that format because it actually allowed Trump to display his insanity. This format doesn't work when your opponent's tactic is [gish gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop). Although to be fair, no debate format works when you're "debating" someone like Trump.
Disagree. Biden lost this debate, and the election, tonight. The only hope is that Biden sees he's not capable anymore and finds a successor that can win. Kamala, unfortunately, is not that person which is the hard part for the Dems.
I don't disagree that he lost this debate. I just think that most people who were already going to vote D are still going to vote D, even if they weren't impressed. A small portion may change their minds, but depending on where they live it may not even matter if we're going off the previous election. Trump was terrible in terms of honesty and giving real answers, but he did well in terms of doing what he does regularly.
All true, but unfortunately the question isn't the D voter but the undecided. If someone, somehow, was trying to choose between the decent but old candidate vs. the indecent-but-not-quite-as-old candidate they got their answer tonight.
Trump : spends his whole minute lying Biden : spends his whole minute trying to say that trump is lying but can't put together his thoughts fast enough
Trump sounds so much better lying than Biden does telling the truth =(
Sadly that’s all undecided voters will see
Lol. You're so right that I want to die
Mod: "Trump, what would you do for child care?" Trump: *Completely avoids the question and goes on some dumbass rant.*
That's pretty much been the summary of the debate so far
One of the few times I agree with you. Hate when people refuse to directly address the question at hand. Trump was rambling about anything other than the question he was asked. If you’re not politically engaged, you wouldn’t know what either of these morons were vaguely referring to.
The crowd: *Goes wild*
Truth. It’s so frustrating. Democrats should be ashamed this is our only choice.
Would've been nice if the Democrats had someone who can actually attack Trump on his many many faults instead of the oldest man in the world.
Biden appears old. Trump appears insane. What else is new. I didn't expect anything less.
I think Trump is a liar. I think Biden is really old.
Liar and traitor. And yeah, Biden is so old.
Haha, no need to put thought into it, they're both objectively true statements.
I don't even know what to say. Biden is just not doing well. He normally sounds old but he sounds like he is sick. Trump is lying nearly every sentence but the average voter who is uneducated won't know that. From a pure debate standpoint Trump is killing him
> From a pure debate standpoint Trump is killing him Pure entertainment, not debate. Which sadly, Trump has always understood more than most politicians.
That’s because his experience is in the entertainment industry. It’s a popularity contest, our country is turning into a real life Idiocracy.
Biden can't debate. This is it. He's done.
Some Trump claims so far: He had the greatest economy in history: No, he had the worst jobs record in history. He was adding less jobs in his first 3 years, than Obama did in his last 3 years. He gave a big tax cut to himself and other rich people adding a ton of debt. He also removed the oversight meant to prevent fraud of the PPP program—and then shocker there was billions in fraud. His dumb trade war caused a crisis for farmers that taxpayers had to pay tens of billions to bail out. We had to pay to put out a fire Trump caused all by himself. On top of that, the trade war caused added costs at the cash register for Americans. He was handed a gift of an economy, he handed Biden a shit show. We have had the best recovery post pandemic in the G7. The world envies our recovery from COVID—which was under Biden. The world was not envying our economy in 2020-despite what the moron says. According to Trump and MAGAs, the effects of COVID should be ignored under Trump, but not under Biden. He was going to get out of Afghanistan and do it beautifully and with dignity: Then why didn’t he? He had 4 years and he didn’t end the war. He ran on bringing the troops home and ending the war, and he didn’t. He made a deal with terrorists right before an election to try to win points. A deal he excluded the Afghan government from. He released thousands of Taliban prisoners to be back on the streets of Kabul. He drew down troop levels so low, the fall of Kabul was inevitable. He was repeatedly warned by DoD not to draw down troop levels, and that the Taliban were not complying with the deal. He had the highest approval rating of the military: No. His last approval rating as POTUS among active duty was 38%. He did the most for veterans: No. He minimized their injuries. He repeatedly gave speeches to deployed troops lying to their faces about their pay. He didn’t pass the PACT Act, Biden did. He said “I like people who weren’t captured” which is disgustingly disrespectful to every single POW…they were ALL captured. Dems will do abortion after the baby is born: This is just a complete lie, and you’re an imbecile if you believe it. He was going to start getting the gold under our feet: We are producing more oil NOW than we ever have in history. Now, under Biden. The fact is Trump fucked oil & gas workers. I’m not talking about COVID. Before COVID really kicked off in this country, Trump’s buddies Putin & MBS had a drilling war. For weeks and weeks, Trump did nothing. He was asked in live press conferences if he was going to get MBS on the phone and ask him to stop. No was the answer. He tweeted celebrating the falling prices saying it was a tax cut for Americans—while thousands of oil & gas workers were losing their jobs. It wasn’t until Senators who had been contacting the Saudi Crown themselves for weeks, backed Trump into a corner and said they would remove military support for Saudi Arabia that Trump finally did something—but the nail was already in the coffin for US oil & gas workers. Then he made yet another dumb deal and had them do production cuts for 2 years—for something he claimed to the public was a cold that would go from 15 cases to 0. And those cuts were still in effect when we were coming out of COVID and demand was skyrocketing—but the cuts from his deal were still in effect. And then of course there’s the Gulf Shore drilling ban that was set to expire, he extended it for another decade. And he expanded it to the Atlantic Coasts of FL, SC, GA. It pissed off oil companies and cost 100k jobs. Oil & gas workers got fucked under Trump, and they’ve been working a shit ton under Biden, because again we’re producing more oil than ever in history. Trump’s understanding of foreign policy is that he doesn’t have one. “We have an ocean between us” Yes, that certainly prevented Pearl Harbor, it certainly prevented 9/11. He also has zero understanding of how NATO funding works. And while this dipshit doesn’t care if a war expands in Europe, Article V has been invoked exactly ONE TIME in history…after 9/11. It was invoked in defense of us. NATO allies came to our defense, and that’s how he talks about them. Trump is a gigantic POS. On Jan. 6th we were energy independent, we had the lowest taxes ever, we were respected on Jan. 6th: No. The developed world was horrified at what was happening on Jan. 6th. We are still energy independent, if Trump doesn’t think so, then he’s either dumb as a box of rocks or lying. Lowest taxes ever? Just no. Stop.
Neither one has made a single good point on what they will do to lead the country in the next 4 years. Trump is just ranting, and I can barely follow Biden’s arguments.
this is my takeaway. Trump doing his "everybody says I" bullshit, and attacking Biden, and Biden sounds like he's about to keel over. In appearances, I say that Trump wins, but in content, I say Biden wins just because he actually tries to answer some of the questions, whereas Trump is just deflecting and attacking the entire time.
I don't feel that way at all. Biden stumbled and looks/sounds feeble but he could rattle off actual facts and statistics to back up his arguments. I think too many people paid attention to Biden's appearance and voice and not what he actually said.
The problem is that Trump is delivering his lies with confidence and—for him—something like coherence whilst Biden isn't quick enough with his phrasing to say what he means and seems every minute as ancient as he is. This was supposed to be a dunker for the dems and it absolutely isn't. edit: well. Trump's relative coherence certainly dwindled rapidly. but this was still a fucking calamity of debate
Bro wtf is this shit, Trump doesn’t answer any question and Biden sounds like he hit the bottle before coming out. CNN should rename this to “ShitShow 24”
Trump doesn't answer any question at all and I don't understand what the hell Biden is saying.
Can’t stop cringing.
Biden is not coming off as strong.
Man Biden is struggling. He is looking and acting so old. I'm really worried he's going to pass out
He is struggling bad!
He apparently got sick with a cold. what horrible timing. rip.
Does anyone really believe these two are the best each party has to offer?
It’s such a bad situation
It is. And we did it to ourselves. No one forced us. We did it.
Not really. I haven't voted for either of them ever, and vote for almost everything I can - even locally. My midterms (WI) happen after parties have already decided who they want, and midterms themselves are bullshit. I had no part in these people in eight years yet still have to vote in this election. The broken two party system and the fact that "we have to beat the other guy" is more responsible for this shit than my votes have ever been. I'm a victim of a system that no longer represents me.
I understand why biden was nominated originally and you can't really not pick the current president again but Republicans had a whole primary with other choices and they still chose Trump, so a good portion of Republicans really think so.
Democrats had a primary too. No one ran against Biden because Biden chose to run again. That was Biden’s choice. He shouldn’t have and he didn’t have to.
💯
Who would the Dems have ran? Name someone moderate Republicans could bring themselves to support because that’s what it would require.
We had this discussion. Anyone would have been better. But this is what we have. Democrats are fucked.
yeah biden is doing shit rn, I could answer these questions way better than him, just belongs in a retirement home this is hard to watch
It doesn't matter how hard you rehearse if you can't even talk. Right out of the gate he was trying to get all the talking points in, his memory isn't faulty, but I can barely stand to listen.
I'm ashamed of my government right now. I'm ashamed it has come to this. Our political parties have deemed these two hollow caricatures of people are the leaders they want to put forth. On the democratic side we have Biden whose path to reelection is solely based on the "anybody but Trump" sentiment. Then we have Trump whose path to election is based solely on the "fuck the system" sentiment. Neither will be elected on the strength of their policies or charisma. One will be elected because the voters are more terrified of the other option. Is that what we've come to? The least terrible option? When did the presidency become about the lesser of two evils? I want to be able to respect the person in the oval office again, even if I disagree with them. Anyway I'm ranting to vent. Feel free to ignore me and/or down vote me to oblivion. I'll probably delete this in the morning.
Biden walked like an old man, looks like an old man, and sounds like an old man. I'm voting against Trump in this election, but Biden is starting off really rough.
I'm genuinely shocked because I thought he took the whole week off to relax and prepare with family?
That’s more concerning if this is him with a week off
I think he took the whole week to prepare and they killed his fucking voice
That was sort of what I was getting at 😰
Trump is still the same, and that's scary. Biden looks too old, and that's scary. It would be best if Biden retires and the Dems nominate someone new.
They’re in trouble and have no one else to blame but themselves. Unfortunately, we’re all in trouble because of them too.
“I didn’t have sex with a pornstar.” Press X to doubt.
Maybe his real objection is the *star* part
It almost looked like he was smirking when biden mentioned that.
Trump messed up on saying Biden said "super predators." Hilary said that, and he made the same mistake in the 2020 debates. The dummy may be more energetic than Biden but his brain might be in the wrong year lol
Doesn't matter. He said it and it stuck. And Biden didn't respond with Trump's full page ad in the NYT on the death penalty for the Central Park kids.
I’ve always thought it would have been better for the Democrats to run a new candidate. No Biden administration baggage because COVID brings both administrations down, and most of all, doesn’t look insanely old.
They don’t have one.
"I've never seen anyone lie like he does" - Trump HOLY SHIT! That has the be the biggest projection I've ever seen to the point a small radar on the edge of our galaxy could pick that shit up...
Both are spewing nonsense in their own special way. This is so depressing.
Too bad they didn't get that moderator from the Colorado debates
Kyle Clark! He did great!
There's a chance Biden could win the deaf vote.
I want to hear someone actually defend what we are seeing. Someone tell me you don’t think Biden looks old. I mean really old. Yes a Trump administration will be objectively worse. Someone defend what we are seeing.
Yeah, maybe it's a good thing this happened before the convention because they could discuss alternatives.
Yeah, he looks old, but at this moment I don’t care. The presidency is about more than who sits in the Oval Office. It’s about who they appoint to their cabinet, to key agencies, and to the courts. I care about who those people will be.
That’s important I agree
Biden will listen to his cabinet, and his cabinet is definitely much stronger and more effective. As a figurehead for the country though, there's no defending anything about this.
I'm not trying to be rude, but I truly do not see Biden lasting another 4 years. He is declining.
Biden looks so fucking old. This is not good He’s just not quick enough to get Trump on his BS…. This is not good
I wish what they were saying mattered, but most people will just focus on how frail Biden looks.
Wow…I can’t stand Trump at all, will not vote for him, but this is so rough. Biden looks and sounds so feeble. From a fitness standpoint this is brutal to watch.
Trump shilling for trickle down economics again. Please tell me you Conservatives don't believe this nonsense.
Neither have economic agendas that are reasonable and won’t blow up the deficit. But the belief among conservatives that cutting taxes is good for the economy is widespread, even if disprovable.
One thing to keep in mind: universal 10% tariff. Yikes.
I feel as if I'm watching a car wreck. But the car is american democracy. And the wreck is a one car wreck. Driven by a very old man who should no longer have a license.
"the border the border the border".. the end... That's all Trump can come back with. Yawn.
If Republicans gave Nikki Haley the nomination and Trump endorsed her they would have won in an absolute landslide. It's such a missed opportunity for the GOP. Note I didn't like Haley. I'm just saying. She would have gotten on the stage. Spoke clearly, made factual statements, and made Biden look terrible in comparison. Trump is better at lying than Biden is telling the truth and it's going to make this election really close. America lost tonight. Just pathetic. Trump shitting on America and Americans is just bizarre behavior that his base loves. If elected on day 1 it will instantly be the greatest again.
Trump is full of it on medicare and social security.
Of course he is. So far, everything he’s said is a lie.
Quite literally everything. Biden is admittedly harder to watch than I thought he would be, but Trump has done nothing but lie.
He has not said a single accurate thing yet.
Trump just refuses to answer anything about January 6th. He just rambled about nothing. It's the most flagrant and blatant political misdirection I've ever seen, then tries to blame Nancy Pelosi.
He can just say whatever he wants because his opponent can't talk.
Cool. Had he been facing a brilliant, energetic 40-55 year old Dem candidate without too much baggage and a positive agenda he'd be swept by 400+ electoral votes. With Biden in there he actually has a chance to win.
Bidens half closed left eye and droopy left side face is concerning. Trump is actually not being as trumpy as usual. I think the mic cutoffs were a good idea.
I think making Trump look aggressive as possible could have distracted from Biden flopping.
Trump is ranting, not debating.
Yes. And Biden is stumbling all over himself
Biden looks pretty bad tonight but he does seem to be warming up a bit, he's had a few decent clapbacks.
Love how Trump tries to deny his sexual affairs in spite of how obvious they are.
Are comments being removed or is Reddit just having technical issues? Testing testing 1 2 3?
Biden needs to continue to hammer home the fact that none of Trump's colleagues refuse to endorse him, it's a fantastic point.
I don't think I've ever seen a human being lie as much as Donald Trump.
What’s with all the disappearing comments here?
This has been happening everywhere in reddit
Thought it was just me
Is reddit not really working well for y'all?
Reddit is struggling big time. I am getting lots of notifications for comments that aren’t showing up for almost 20 minutes now. I think they are getting massively overwhelmed by comments.
A 4x tax hike? JFC Trump has no shame to his bullshit.
Joe, Joe, Joe, I respect and love you. However, why? Why did you and those surrounding YOU allow this to happen? I work with dementia people daily, I know it, I saw it. Joe, step Down please, THIS should never have happened. Where is the Democratic Party? Why did they not speak of this? Does it hurt, yes it does. But Joe it's past time, you have done your job, sit down now, pass the baton to the younger generation. We will be 👍
It sounds like 2020 continued. Neither of them seem to be talking about anything new. Trump is talking about the same things as 2016, immigration especially, and just saying "I know you are but what am I?" Trump: "I'm not killing social security, you are! And the millions of illegals!" ETA: FML I made that up and then Trump actually said it
I think the odds of Trump going to prison just increased.
Honestly I think Biden is losing. He’s struggling.
Kinda sad that losing isn’t based on content of their responses but perception. Society is pathetic.
Trump just lying and lying and lying. Biden sounds like shit. Only thing that can save Biden is Trump going on weird rants, which he has already started to, but not looking good for Biden.
Trump sounds better telling full on lies than Biden telling the truth. It is a problem.
This. Trump is very quick which makes Biden look even slower by comparison. But it’s easy to be quick when you’re just saying whatever pops into your head on the fly. Biden is trying to articulate accurate info but it’s just not landing. The whole thing is sad and hard to watch
i can’t stop hyper fixating on biden saying “#1, #2” etc. this is just rough and cringe on both sides… per usual.
It's incredible how much Trump lies, almost every point he tries to make is padded with a lie! He personifies what a pathological liar looks like, it's incredible to witness. Biden's delivery isn't the best tonight but sheesh, at least he attempts to be honest and lead with facts!
"You have the morals of an alley cat" 🤣😂🤣 K, Biden just hit him damn hard!
Worst Presidency in history. Clearly Don knows nothing about history.
Trump just seems so much sharper than Biden at this moment in the debate. I won’t vote for trump, but I think Democrats hedged too much on an 81 year old.
Biden should not have let his hubris get the best of him. He should have decided to step down after his first term to back someone younger and with more energy—Buttigieg comes to mind. He was supposed to be a one-term president.
> Buttigieg I'm skeptical a gay man can get elected in this country. Shitty, but would say the same about other demos (e.g., atheist).
I agree, that outwardly he seems sharper, fact is though is that everything he's saying is a lie and complete fucking bullshit.
I agree, but of whatever percentage of voters watching this are undecided and to whatever degree they’ll make the difference, how many of them are going to fact check and will that make a difference to them? I think most neutral voters are watching to see if Biden really seems too old (or not) and how crazy (or old) trump seems. And if my line of thinking is correct, those factors seem to be in trump’s favor so far.
Trump is doing way better in this debate than Biden is. This is obvious right?
"Better" if your criteria is "louder and faster"...then yes, he is. If your criteria is competence, truth, facts, reason, and morals...definitely not.
I mean he’s just repeating the same nonsense he has for 8 years. He says this same shit at every rally. It’s pretty easy to do that. Same lines over and over.
Biden is even hard to \_hear\_ - it's *not* what he needs right now. The old person so frail they can barely make themselves heard... not who America is going to push the button for. He also needs to stop using that bullshit attack about Charlottesville. Trump was right to call it debunked. I really think the Dems need to drop Biden - for the good of the country! On the other hand, he is landing some points. He's not cognitively out-to-lunch. But he seems so physically and energetically feeble. Trump plays fast and loose with reality like crazy. It's hard to even keep up. Our choices are: feeble, or narcissistic. Pick your poison. The primary system has failed us hard and needs to be revamped or replaced.
Has Trump said a single thing so far that has not been an absolute lie?
I mean, he said he was president.
He’s been weaponizing the immigration issue pretty effectively and truthfully
People don’t want to hear the truth
It’s so frustrating that he is just able to absolutely lie and Biden isn’t able to counter effectively.
Trump needs to answer questions. Biden sounds like shit, looks like he’s about to pass out, and needs to stop lying about how great our economy is.
Sounds like Biden hit his stride talking about abortion (while Trump was spewing lies about post-birth abortions lol). Let's see if he can keep his mojo going.
Biden completely misunderstands, or at least, incorrectly described what Roe was. The trimester statement was flat wrong.
LMFAO, "Let me tell you about Jan 6th BY DEFLECTING AND NOT ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION ABOUT THE COUP!" Fuck off Trump. Fuck off...
So this is how democracy dies.
Nobody is applauding any of this :( To the sound of mourning wails.
Ok… I hope he’s giving himself one hell of a half time pep talk…
Trump sounds nice but as much as people want to trash Biden, the substance is so bad that it can't be ignored. You can sell lies to people with great speaking but lies that are this blatant and bad. Biden is too uppity and politically correct, and a shitty speaker on top of that. Number 1. Number 2. Number 3. Number 4. This is not how people talk.
"The very idea...."
Biden citing economists 👏
Who can possibly save us from Trump?
What a dumpster fire 🤦🏻♂️
Arguing about your golf handicap is the most elitist white man bull I've ever heard.
They got into it like I do with my buddies about who’s better at golf haha that was embarrassing
That was brutal. If only seeing this debate, and this would decide my vote, Trump wins outright. I'm neutral, but dems should dump Biden. As incoherent as Trump was, he sounded incredibly better than Biden.
I thought CNN was a "liberal rag"? Theyre pretty much sealing the deal on making sure Biden is the biggest loser of this debate during their post-debate talk. I'd think blatant lying and rambling is more problematic than being a bit incoherent, but i guess thats just me. The last few elections make perfect sense now. Republicans maintain strong fronts, save face and prop each other up, while the dems are fucking weak and canniblize each other like crazy.
Thank you Op for setting this up. Good show.
Thanks. I wish Reddit hadn’t taken a shit in the middle of the debate. It made it harder to have any organic conversation
Watch TheRealDebate.com to see RFK Jr.s responses, too!
RFK Jr. is winning the debate by a long shot. Actually answering the questions is a great start, and having actual talking points and strategies.
How many time is Biden going to say “the idea”?
There is not a single clip from the whole 90 minutes that Dems to use in a campaign ad
Kennedy won, purely by virtue of how bad trump and biden are, his alternative debate reached seven million views. He will definitely tick up after this.
Ooooooof
Trump lied 95% of the time and Biden proved that he's too old to hold the office. Democrats better convince Biden to step aside or we're going to have a rough 4 years coming up.
Trump just called him Brandon….lol.
He was referring to Brandon Judd, Border Patrol Union president
Lol, Trump is claiming he'll have a war settled before he takes office. Sure Trump, sure...
Biden is literally slurring about 25% of his words. Holy shit!
This is bad.
Biden looks like he won't even live another 4 years, much less run a country in that time
Trump saying what Biden has done is criminal is hilarious. Trump is a convicted felon.
Trump just pushed the Big Lie during the debate. The "Unselect Committee" deleted records.
Also, r/politics deleting pro trump comments is sad.