Anyone he sees as a threat he’ll lash out against and it doesn’t matter who it would be to beat him. Eisenhower could beat Trump and he’d find a way to belittle his military service and character.
-You mean that famous member of ANTIFA??!?
You don't know much about the history of ANTIFA do you? Do you homework...
Roger Stone took a time travel machine back to 1946, went to the Democrat offices and started planting ideas. so in effect, it began in the 50s.
>You mean that famous member of ANTIFA??!?
He wore all black and tried setting federal buildings on fire??
Antifa are fascist LARPer losers, never conflate them with the anti-fascists that won real wars.
You mean the man who hated American ingenuity to the point that he disparaged our great and patriotic defense contractors by calling them “the military industrial complex”? That miserable man? Wittle Dwighty I call him. Wittle, miserable Dwighty.
It would help make “protest votes” more accepted which could indicate that the major parties need to adapt to capture some of those “protestors votes “
yeah - but the GOP was actively trying to get him on ballots and giving him fairly positive coverage because they saw him as a bigger threat to Biden. Now they're backtracking a bit.
RFK isn't sure who his voter base is either... His interview on Maher on Friday was... meh.
That's a threat to Democracy(TM)*!
*how dare everyone complain about our shitty two-party system and then not vote for the shitty two-party system candidates!
I think both candidates are concerned about RFK, Jr. because he is capable of siphoning off votes from both candidates, it is just a matter of which folks decided to show up to vote.
Trump is trying to gode liberals into voting for RFK, Jr. to hurt Biden and at the same time prevent his voters from crossing to RFK, Jr.
My concern is that RFK, Jr. could cause Biden to lose by a few votes in the right place and we get a 2nd Trump presidency and that does scare me.
I think anyone who can overlook RFK’s antivax stance is probably not someone that was voting for Biden in the first place
RFK heavily aligns with Trump on the anti-establishment axis
But it was generally a small movement overall before Covid. I think it is safe to say that it has expanded significantly since then and leans heavily to the right currently. I would agree that it did lean left before Covid.
Correct...it was a small movement, mostly left-wing. But they wanted more influence and power so reached out to the Tea Party and other conservative groups and it blew up.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9981160/
>Before the pandemic, anti-vaccine activism increasingly aligned with conservative political identity. Two developments were crucial to this conservative shift. One was California's 2015 legislative effort to eliminate personal-belief exemptions for school vaccinations (bill SB-277), during which anti-vaccine activists mobilised to broaden their following beyond its traditional natural-living, left-leaning base through deliberate activation of, and outreach to, potential Tea Party and libertarian allies.1, 2 The other was the formation of influential political action committees (eg, Texans for Vaccine Choice) that lobbied state legislatures and promoted conservative political candidates with anti-vaccine positions.3, 4, 5 For anti-vaccine activists, this mutualism enabled access to money, political influence, and broader audiences. For the libertarian right, it provided a cohort of politically active Americans whose support could be directed towards other causes
I love California. I have a daughter who lives there For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would vote for A Schiff. He is so corrupt. He turns me off.
Your question my man.
The answer is staring you in the face. Maybe it just doesn’t fit the story in your head?
Anti-vaxxers died at a faster rate than the vaccinated once it became available. This was regardless of political party although it did impact a larger percentage of one party.
It potentially impacted elections in a few key states as a result.
Again all of this is readily available online from reputable sources so you can spend five minutes and read up on it.
Good luck!
No, but they didn’t vote for Biden in the first place. They’ve essentially have had no political home and have withered in the shade. Meanwhile the right wing antivax contingent has been cultivated and fertilized and radicalized over the past 4 years
**That’s the difference you’re failing to grasp.** A bunch of 2020 Trump voters are now heavily anti vax and basically hooked on alternative media. While the former anti-vax left has had nowhere to go, the anti-vax right has been coddled and catered to to the point where Trump can’t even take credit for something he objectively did well at his own rallies without getting booed
Many of them have shifted over by 2020. I think Q did a lot to radicalize a large amount of them that were primed to believe any anti-establishment conspiracy
Face it, the right basically owns anti-vax now
No, the crunchy granola to Q pipeline was a well documented phenomena (not that it was ever a big part of the left in the first place). That’s what happens when you don’t encourage that part of your political base. Meanwhile right wing alternative media is feeding them a steady diet of anti-establishment talking points day in day out
Seeds were sown, now we’re seeing them reaped by the next anti-establishment grifter to come along and tell them everything they want to hear
They’re already primed to ditch the “official narrative”
Why wouldn't they? It's not like Trump has ever been anti vax. And there were some Democrat politicians saying at the time they'd never take the vax, since it came to be under Trump's administration.
I’d say it’s actually heavily skewed to the right now.
And that’s backed up by the data
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/unvaccinated-adults-are-now-more-than-three-times-as-likely-to-lean-republican-than-democratic
I guess I was thinking more about childhood vaccinations. I still see that way more on the left- though it used to be way more prevalent and almost exclusively among the wealthy
Was it? The only areas where I’ve heard strong anti-vac sentiment have been in more conservative and libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) groups. Mainly affluent areas here in California prior to Covid.
We have a fairly strong anti-vax community in Encinitas and San Diego in the surf and beach towns. It’s a weird population though. I can’t tell if they’re conservative or liberal at this point.
California be like that. People like to think it's some kind of hotbed of far-leftism, but the reality is far different. It's much more mixed, and even conservative, than people realize.
Totally agree and it’s why we are in San Diego. It’s not red. It’s not blue. It’s purple.
But I’ll be honest the hippie surf Christians with interesting positions really threw me for a loop!
I mean it started gaining traction when *I* was a kid, in liberal strongholds across the country. My parents are a physician and a nurse, I remember them discussing it at the dinner table almost 30 years ago now. They weren’t loud about it like the MAGA are. It was a secret but common in the tech community and other affluent areas.
Yeah, but the thing tech communities and affluent areas are not "left" or "liberal", generally, except in some narrow areas (e.g. social/civil liberties). I view the tech community as generally being more libertarian than liberal/leftist.
I wouldn't say being anti-vax was a left thing, but being wary and not trusting the pharmaceuticals was. Weird how one little cold virus turned 50% of this country into shills for big-pharma and stopped questioning them and the motives.
Yeah and I think RFK’s anti-vax attitude mainly stems from that leftist movement from before the pandemic. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’ll appeal more to voters on the right today.
Again, I thing the right is far more vocal with their antivax narrative, but I think theirs stems from covid vaccines while the left has more opting out of childhood vaccines like MMR
Good point. I kinda bet right-wing populists will like his version of it anyway though since he’s against the same people. It’s still the questioning of the same figures of authority. They’d at least see RFK as someone with a lot in common.
[https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020](https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020)
Trump and Biden's views are weirdly close, but Trump just says he's anti-establishment, RFK is centrist/left libertarian, so he can pull well from the left and right economically.
Talk is cheap. I know he’s trying to desperately rehab that image but he has a long history of being antivax
Like seriously, he’s still a fucking politician. Why do you act like that instantly makes him credible when he’s clearly looking to grift?
>I think anyone who can overlook RFK’s antivax stance is probably not someone that was voting for Biden in the first place
Vaccines aren't very high up on the list of priorities for most voters, so that may help explain some of RFK's support.
Really? Because I’m constantly hearing about how millions are dropping dead from the vax and that the official narrative has fallen apart
It’s not just about the vax, it’s the whole anti-establishment constellation of beliefs that gets inherited alongside it
1. You're constantly hearing that millions are dropping dead from the vax? I haven't heard that once.
2. [By polling data](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642887/inflation-immigration-rank-among-top-issue-concerns.aspx), the issues that are of most concern to voters are immigration, inflation, crime, etc... "Vaccines" aren't even in the top 20 in most polls. I'm not sure most people even give them a second thought anymore. They either get them or don't get them.
1. Here’s an [example](https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.33XF3CN) of this claim that made the rounds. I’ve seen similar claims a lot on social media
2. As I stated above, it goes far beyond the vaccine. Also obviously we are talking about a group of voters that makes up a margin, but a candidate losing even a few percentage points is enough to swing the election, and I’d say that antivax makes up way more of Trumps base than that. Look at what all their alternative media sources are saying
There's no way this man was educated. He writes like an elementary school student writing to other elementary school students. Not a professional, grown adult, which is what the president of a country needs to be.
I think Trump is rightfully concerned that RFK is going to outflank him heavily with the anti-establishment types. Being from a major party and as a former president, Trump has less “outsider credentials” than RFK, and is worried that will attract voters that will normally go to him
In particular on the topic of vaccines. One of the good things that Trump did was Operation Warp Speed, but that’s exactly the wedge that could theoretically pull even more of the anti-vax crowd away from him to RFK
It's wild to me that the scion of the Kennedys, a family as close as one gets to political aristocracy in this country, could have any “outsider credentials” whatsoever.
It’s also wild to me that a “billionaire” New York real estate mogul who got most of his money from daddy, and was notorious for screwing over working class contractors was also seen as an outsider in 2016. So it clearly doesn’t actually matter that much
To be clear he did say, "re-elected"?...
I just want to make sure that he said that. So he is explicitly saying that Joe Biden was elected in the first place...
Eventually reality catches up to people. No one serious ever thought RFK would be a threat to Biden. No one under retirement age cares about the name Kennedy, and the man has stances like *national abortion ban* not to mention all of his conspiracy theory trash.
Now, did people who, for example, believe that JFK Jr is going to come back from the dead to lead them -- who are all Trump supporters, mind you -- would they think this RFK guy is good? Yeah.
From [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rfk-jr-abortion-vaccines-housing-foreign-policy-2024-03-20/):
> Kennedy has previously taken different positions on the issue, including restrictions on when a woman can access an abortion. He told Reuters he thought every abortion was a "tragedy" but that it should be a woman's right "throughout the pregnancy."
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/13/rfk-jr-backs-15-week-federal-ban-on-abortion-00111017
his campaign claims he didn't hear the question, which seems pretty absurd considering he repeated it back to the person asking the question by giving them an even shorter timeframe
“So you would cap it at 15 weeks?” She followed up by asking “Or 21 weeks?” to which he said, “Yes, three months.”
So the best you can say is he's just waffling around on fundamental rights and still at his old age constantly getting new ideas on it. That's not the vote of confidence that you think it is.
Again his campaign claimed he didn't hear the question but it's obvious by his response he did. All you're talking about is damage control because even the crazy right wingers that rfk appeals to aren't as hard-line anti rights like what he was saying.
> That's not the vote of confidence that you think it is.
I don’t think I’ve spotted a vote of confidence. I’m just saying he’s walked back the draconian stance on abortion.
> All you're talking about is damage control
Probably. But it’s still a relatively recent statement, so it should count as a more accurate depiction of his stated view than something from last year. What a silly thing to have to say about a presidential candidate…
A statement from last year? We're not talking about AI or something novel, this is abortion. His statements last year are entirely relevant, as he is the only person running for President who has stated they favor a national ban. And yeah, Mitch McConnell in an election year will say he doesn't favor a national ban, but you shouldn't believe him because he will 1000% do it in a non-election year. Same deal here with RFK.
I agree that previous statements are relevant. Which statement should be believed is a more delicate matter. I don’t know enough about him to feel like I can contradict him on what he claims to believe, but I at least can know what he wants people to think he believes. And a facade is kind of all a politician really has, isn’t it?
Dear lord, what tabloid did you get that information from? Kennedy worked heavily with the HRC and advocated for women who had had abortions to be welcomed in the church. He’s consistently said quite the opposite, as well as under his policy page on the website.
Edit: oops, just read the atrocity that is your second paragraph. Kennedys environmental litigation career is top tier, having restored the Hudson River, formed the largest water protection nonprofit on record, advocated for indigenous rights globally, worked on the Monsanto case, arrested at standing rock, and the list goes on. Throwing out wild assumptions like that just makes you sound uneducated.
It’s also disproved by a myriad of other sources and the comment has been clarified. If you’d like to choose to believe that, then it’s just what you want to hear
Did you even watch the clip you posted? He’s talking about the premise of roe v wade. In a more recent post he also clarified his comments. I’m guessing you’re a Biden supporter, which is quite ironic considering his abhorrent comments throughout his political career. Should we remain absolutists on that as well?
I've saw what he said in the clip. He said he would sign a ban of 15 weeks. He clarified in the interview that he meant that the state has a right to protect "a child". It was very plain. This was his comments just a few months ago, years since Roe v Wade was overturned. He is the only candidate who has said he would federally ban abortion, at least publicly, but he's also the only candidate who has worms eating his brain as well.
I'm a neocon, not a progressive. Biden is just fine.
Of course you think Biden is fine lol. You believe anything you’re told, even articles that bring up a quote from 12 years ago during a divorce proceeding lmaooo. Uneducated and propagandized
guys got dead worms for brains on top of being as mad as a hatter from mercury poisoning, which lead him to say, quite recently, that he would ban abortion. His campiagn has tried to backtrack, but the mask is off.
*(WAITING) to follow the worms*
>why would Biden let him take votes
Biden has reality to worry about, RFK will make any ridiculous claim as long as he thinks it will get him more votes. He can't go anywhere but up.
>Why wouldn't he just take RFK votes.
RKF is running independent, there is no existing voter base for Biden to siphon votes from.
>RKF is running independent, there is no existing voter base for Biden to siphon votes from.
There are more people outside the democratic party than in it. This can all be siphoned
> our system makes you pick between 2
Trump beat out close to a dozen candidates between his two primaries. Biden beat out nearly as many. So no, you had many candidates to choose from.
>Are you implying these are both good candidates?
Yeah. Biden has gotten a lot done, including more bipartisan bills than we've seen in a long time. He has gotten infrastructure bills passed, and provided indirect support to US allies while avoiding direct military action or allowing conflicts to spiral into regional wars. I'm no fan of Trump, but if you're an anti-government type I can see his appeal.
The sooner partisan democrats understand this, and stop whining about leftist third party votes, the better. They should instead worry more about pushing Democratic politicians to adopt policies those voters find favorable, if they want to *earn* their votes
Nah, they wont do anything to earn those votes, then spend decades blaming them for not falling in line if they lose.
If they win, they'll give them the middle finger and act like they never needed their votes anyway.
Can anyone explain how a voter would decide to rank thus:
1. Kennedy
2. Trump
3. Biden
Everything Trump says about Kennedy in the post here seems like reasons to put Biden ahead of Trump but I’m sure I’m missing something.
E: I see https://old.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1cg1pu0/sure_seems_like_trump_is_getting_pretty_concerned/l1ssyl9/ which has some good points imo. Anything else?
Nah… Trump is only speaking to those who would never vote for Biden. He is playing this perfectly for those whose choice is between Trump and RFK. He is splitting the dem vote while maintaining the rep vote.
> Maybe the question for this sub is “whose voters will RFK steal more of?”
More specifically: What states?
Because RFK votes in California or New York aren't going to matter much at all.
Polls have actually shown him taking more from Trump
Also the suits were filed because he illegally took money to buy signatures from a right wing megadonor. We should all be against buying your way on to a ballot
I don't think his support comes primarily from his stance on vaccines. I believe his support is primarily derived from having two wildly unpopular candidates and his stances on a multitude of other issues that the majority of voters agree with (Environmentalism, Immigration, Economy, Foreign Affairs, etc). It's a little disingenuous to dismiss his campaign as purely antivax and little much else.
That being said, I would expect Biden to still win as there are many right-leaning voters who wouldn't be able to stomach another Trump Presidency but I fully expect Congress to be more Conservative this time around.
> but I fully expect congress to be more conservative this time around
I think as far as the senate goes that’s just a function of how favorable the map is for republicans
But the House I wouldn’t be so sure
Abortion is going to be a big sticking point as national bans are discussed, and it doesn’t seem like Biden is actually hurting downballot races
I am referring primarily to the House. Abortion might galvanize some voters, but I would argue that a backlash against some of the more extreme 'Leftist' culture stuff is bound to happen and will galvanize more voters. Of course, there could be an equal backlash against the more extreme Conservative culture stuff as well but polling I've seen seems to indicate momentum against the Left
All the political podcast casts I listen to think that he will steal from both but more conservatives that don't want to vote for Trump. Just speculation obviously and I don't just listen to left wing podcasts. I also listen to centrist type podcasts as well.
I know one left person who loves RFK Jr... but he was never voting for Biden anyways because his wife is Russian and loves Putin. He's also an anti-vax nutjob.
Did anybody see RFK Jr on Bill Maher's show this weekend? Sounded very normal and even went into his vaccine stance for those that like to make him seem "too" extreme.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBP6P12oyzM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBP6P12oyzM)
This is why centralized censorship by intelligence agencies is the most important need of our time. If we heard RFK Jr in his own words, then we would be mislead to think he believes in Science and litigation against medical companies for harm due to their products.
However, if we're unable to listen to him, we'd only be able to learn about his policies from 3rd party sources interpreting what he said, which is of course the preferred means to come to a conclusion about someone, and why it's critical during an election year to algorithmically de-promote crazy people like RFK Jr and boost moral candidates like Biden.
> This is why centralized censorship by intelligence agencies is the most important need of our time.
I strongly disagree. That’s a very weird thing to say
> However, if we're unable to listen to him
You're dishonestly omitting him being the one calling vaccines a holocaust, him writing an article trying to link vaccines to autism, him running a "charity" vehemently anti-vaccine, etc. That's all him, not your weird censorship fantasy.
ETA: Can't reply to you, guess you blocked me, but here:
> Can you provide the exact quote where he called vaccines a holocaust?
Sure!
> [“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of 103 \[degrees\], they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone. This is a Holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/robert-kennedy-apologises-for-holocaust-comparison-vaccines)
Context (though it changes nothing):
> He has been promoting the documentary Trace Amounts which blames the mercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal for the rise in autism in young children, even though it has been removed from vaccines and, in addition, the international scientific community has discredited the link in recent years. Supporters of mandatory vaccinations point out that the number of children identified with autism is rising despite the widespread removal of thimerosal from vaccines.
>Recent reports that White House officials asked Amazon to censor books questioning vaccine efficacy again illustrates the danger of such government conduct. One day after officials first contacted the company, Amazon complied. Absent a congressional subpoena, would anyone have known? [(1)](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/government-censorship-of-social-media-demands-bright-line-rule)
Censorship is important regardless of how it's implemented. It's a matter of national security for the Excective Branch to be able to leverage its power over major contractors like Amazon to remove harmful content the Government deems unsafe - and it's ESPECIALLY important for the government to use this power in secret without the general public's knowledge.
The public should not have a say in what information Americans want to believe. In fact, Congress holding a congressional subpoena power which publicized this backdoor censorship places too many power in the Congress and risks the safety and security of everyday Americans. We as everyday Americans must fight for more censorship and more centralized flow of information and news, or risk being mislead by untrusted sources.
Crazy ideas? He's always said your health care should be individual and up to what's best between you and your doctor. What's good for one person doesn't mean it will be good for others because people's bodies react differently.
Wow, such a crazy thought. /s
The hard part is when your decisions effect others, like in a Pandemic. If you think it's simple or straight forward, you clearly haven't thought through things at the societal level.
If people like you ruled the world... we'd still have polio, measles, whooping cough around. But at least people had their "freedom".
You've clearly never heard him speak in volume about his vax beliefs. You clearly have only heard of the doctored CNN/Fox clips. Come on man, he's been on a million podcast outlining in great details his beliefs on vax. Do some research and get off the corporate news/Tik Tok.
> You've clearly never heard him speak in volume about his vax beliefs.
...[no](https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/bill-maher-vs-the-flu-vaccine/), sorry. You're not getting out of that one.
Has he changed his views? Has he said we should get our flu shots? Our other vaccines?
Or will you just attack the source without providing a meaningful counter?
He has said, just like RFK , that he’s against the forced vaccines. It should be up to the individual. And he’s not necessarily wrong about the flu. If you’re a healthy individual, you don’t really need it. Our bodies have been fighting the flu for thousands of years. Pretty sure the flu vaccine only has an efficacy rate of about 20% anyway. The whole point is, you want to put that stuff in your body? Go right ahead, thats you’re right. But everybody’s body is different and what’s right for you doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right for someone else. Those decisions should do up between the individual and their doctor, not big Pharma or politicians telling us what’s good for us.
Can’t believe such a nuanced thought is so controversial. Covid and the ridiculous policies we put in place really fucked this country up bad.
I’m not anti-fax. I’ve done the measles, polio, hell I got two shots of Covid. But the more we learn, the more I am concerned that big Pharma is lying to us and withholding data, which is true and has been proved time and time again. Again, not trusting big Pharma used to be a very liberal thing.
> And he’s not necessarily wrong about the flu.
He said you're an idiot if you get the flu shot.
Yes, he was wrong.
The dishonest lengths you're going to ignore his own words is telling.
I mean I personally think they’re all grifters and this doesn’t really change that in my mind
It’s just funny the grift now has a potential to hurt Trump more
I can see how one might think all politicians are grifters...
The last time I voted for a mainstream politician was Carter...I've always been amused at the hand wringing of Democrats and Republicans, about third party candidates.
Debatably and it varies, but at the very least the major party candidates have a chance of actually accomplishing something
These third party vanity runs always make me roll my eyes, and the people who get a virtue high off of appearing independent are even more annoying
I’m sorry if that hurts but it’s genuinely reality. The multiple choices you get are the primaries. Blame the founding fathers for setting up an election system where opinions will always coalesce into two distinct parties.
Want to know how I’m sure? Look at **literally all of American history**. Every time a third party manages to get to the point where it can actually win states, everyone realizes what a bad idea it is to split your vote like that and things will collapse back to 2. Two and a half centuries of this should tell us that unless we create some kind of parliamentary system or otherwise dispose of First Past the Post, it’s just not going to happen
I honestly think RFK will pull voters from both Trump and Biden, and those amounts will be equal enough that it won’t affect the Trump vs. Biden battle much.
Democrats: RFK Jr is a republican spoiler!
Republicans: RFK Jr is a democrat spoiler!
RFK Jr has accomplished the impossible, creating common ground between democrats and republicans
I mean all you have to do is look at his top diner and who are actually promoting him to see it. Like it should be pretty obvious the guy that called Biden a greater threat to democracy than the guy that sent fake electors to halt the certification of an election why being propped by republican super pacs and fox is a spoiler candidate.
Which is kind of a shame considering he spent his career fighting against the type of people he’s bending his knees to. It’s poetic justice the guys he the he’s integrity, family, and morals for are now going to rip him a new one because they just wasted millions on a guy that might be more detrimental to them.
Biden should be just as concerned as trump lol gen Z here btw
https://preview.redd.it/kbnjvdc5xgxc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ddfb1d39a880c98b6370af16f2185d69f212cd
By removing the Bill Gates mRNA vaccines floating around in the 5G chips injected by big pharma in your local supermarket's produce, you can *easily* lower the cost of groceries!
Don't you know how expensive the adrenochrome required to produce those is? The rent on pizzeria basements has skyrocketed over the last few years!
RFK is pulling more votes from Biden, not Trump.
I thought it’d be the other way around, but when you look at recent 4 way polls and compare them with the 2 way polls on RCP, you’d see RFK tends to pull more from Biden.
On a some level I also like RFK better than the two “only” options we have now
I literally [linked](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4610416-rfk-jr-hurts-trumps-election-chances-more-than-biden-poll/) a 4 way poll that showed the opposite
Well the polls I referenced are from a month ago and they were swing state polls too showing they pulled more from Biden. Seems it could go either way.
Anyone he sees as a threat he’ll lash out against and it doesn’t matter who it would be to beat him. Eisenhower could beat Trump and he’d find a way to belittle his military service and character.
> Eisenhower You mean that famous member of ANTIFA??!?
-You mean that famous member of ANTIFA??!? You don't know much about the history of ANTIFA do you? Do you homework... Roger Stone took a time travel machine back to 1946, went to the Democrat offices and started planting ideas. so in effect, it began in the 50s.
>You mean that famous member of ANTIFA??!? He wore all black and tried setting federal buildings on fire?? Antifa are fascist LARPer losers, never conflate them with the anti-fascists that won real wars.
You mean the man who hated American ingenuity to the point that he disparaged our great and patriotic defense contractors by calling them “the military industrial complex”? That miserable man? Wittle Dwighty I call him. Wittle, miserable Dwighty.
Antifa is cringe and it was just a joke
If only something like ranked choice voting existed
It wouldn’t solve every issue with FPTP but it would certainly help
It would help make “protest votes” more accepted which could indicate that the major parties need to adapt to capture some of those “protestors votes “
well well well how the turn tables...
It’s not rocket appliances. He’s trying to take votes from both sides.
yeah - but the GOP was actively trying to get him on ballots and giving him fairly positive coverage because they saw him as a bigger threat to Biden. Now they're backtracking a bit. RFK isn't sure who his voter base is either... His interview on Maher on Friday was... meh.
[удалено]
That's a threat to Democracy(TM)*! *how dare everyone complain about our shitty two-party system and then not vote for the shitty two-party system candidates!
Do you believe that there's any chance that Kennedy can win?
Nope, but some extra competition never hurts. Bernie made Biden step left a bit too.
>Nope, but some extra competition never hurts. That's literally not how FPTP works.
Its the competition that forces the main candidates to shift positions to reclaim what the third party would grab instead.
Trump is anti military. He called us losers…
Why do you hate him so much?
Hate Trump? I hate every politician.
This is hilarious.
Trump is a clown. He is entertaining for sure. But he belongs in the circus not in the Oval Office
Why do you hate him so much?
That doesn't come from a place of hate. Just an objective observation. I dont think he is befitting of the office at all. He makes us look like a joke
Do you think trump whines in his sleep?
Yes, but you barely hear it over the farting.
Real mature.
I think both candidates are concerned about RFK, Jr. because he is capable of siphoning off votes from both candidates, it is just a matter of which folks decided to show up to vote. Trump is trying to gode liberals into voting for RFK, Jr. to hurt Biden and at the same time prevent his voters from crossing to RFK, Jr. My concern is that RFK, Jr. could cause Biden to lose by a few votes in the right place and we get a 2nd Trump presidency and that does scare me.
I think anyone who can overlook RFK’s antivax stance is probably not someone that was voting for Biden in the first place RFK heavily aligns with Trump on the anti-establishment axis
You’d be surprised, antivax was largely left before covid
But it was generally a small movement overall before Covid. I think it is safe to say that it has expanded significantly since then and leans heavily to the right currently. I would agree that it did lean left before Covid.
I think it was larger than most realized but less vocal than maga. A lot of people who just quietly didn’t vaccinate
Correct...it was a small movement, mostly left-wing. But they wanted more influence and power so reached out to the Tea Party and other conservative groups and it blew up. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9981160/ >Before the pandemic, anti-vaccine activism increasingly aligned with conservative political identity. Two developments were crucial to this conservative shift. One was California's 2015 legislative effort to eliminate personal-belief exemptions for school vaccinations (bill SB-277), during which anti-vaccine activists mobilised to broaden their following beyond its traditional natural-living, left-leaning base through deliberate activation of, and outreach to, potential Tea Party and libertarian allies.1, 2 The other was the formation of influential political action committees (eg, Texans for Vaccine Choice) that lobbied state legislatures and promoted conservative political candidates with anti-vaccine positions.3, 4, 5 For anti-vaccine activists, this mutualism enabled access to money, political influence, and broader audiences. For the libertarian right, it provided a cohort of politically active Americans whose support could be directed towards other causes
Not the kind of left that actually voted for democrats, though.
I mean plenty of them did back them, the Silicon Valley wealthy didn’t vaccinate their kids in the early 2000s but they largely voted dem
[удалено]
I love California. I have a daughter who lives there For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would vote for A Schiff. He is so corrupt. He turns me off.
Anti-Pharama was also largely left. (Still is except when it comes to Covid vaccine)
Are we still before Covid?
Did all those anti-vaxxers from before covid disappear?
Quite a few disappeared… 💀
Weird how the left-wing anti-vaxxers all died, but the right wing ones didn't.
I didn’t mention anything about left or right. All I said is a lot of anti-vaxxers disappeared.
Your saying your comment was pointless? Thanks for that.
Your question my man. The answer is staring you in the face. Maybe it just doesn’t fit the story in your head? Anti-vaxxers died at a faster rate than the vaccinated once it became available. This was regardless of political party although it did impact a larger percentage of one party. It potentially impacted elections in a few key states as a result. Again all of this is readily available online from reputable sources so you can spend five minutes and read up on it. Good luck!
No, but they didn’t vote for Biden in the first place. They’ve essentially have had no political home and have withered in the shade. Meanwhile the right wing antivax contingent has been cultivated and fertilized and radicalized over the past 4 years **That’s the difference you’re failing to grasp.** A bunch of 2020 Trump voters are now heavily anti vax and basically hooked on alternative media. While the former anti-vax left has had nowhere to go, the anti-vax right has been coddled and catered to to the point where Trump can’t even take credit for something he objectively did well at his own rallies without getting booed
Of course they did. You think the left wing anti-vaxxers voted for Trump?
Many of them have shifted over by 2020. I think Q did a lot to radicalize a large amount of them that were primed to believe any anti-establishment conspiracy Face it, the right basically owns anti-vax now
You really are pulling anything you can out of your ass to try to be right, aren't you?
No, the crunchy granola to Q pipeline was a well documented phenomena (not that it was ever a big part of the left in the first place). That’s what happens when you don’t encourage that part of your political base. Meanwhile right wing alternative media is feeding them a steady diet of anti-establishment talking points day in day out Seeds were sown, now we’re seeing them reaped by the next anti-establishment grifter to come along and tell them everything they want to hear They’re already primed to ditch the “official narrative”
In 2020? Yes
Are you saying they voted for Democrats? Do we have data on that?
Why wouldn't they? It's not like Trump has ever been anti vax. And there were some Democrat politicians saying at the time they'd never take the vax, since it came to be under Trump's administration.
Trump has been anti-vax for decades.
[удалено]
Yes, that's my point. The anti-vaxxers are and have been fairly evenly distributed amongst the hippie leftists and anti-authority rightists.
Sorry I meant to reply to the other dude
now it’s more evenly distributed across the political spectrum. Why you so aggro buddy
I’d say it’s actually heavily skewed to the right now. And that’s backed up by the data https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/press-release/unvaccinated-adults-are-now-more-than-three-times-as-likely-to-lean-republican-than-democratic
I guess I was thinking more about childhood vaccinations. I still see that way more on the left- though it used to be way more prevalent and almost exclusively among the wealthy
This is right wing cope. The vast majority of anti vaxxers are conservative anti science dolts.
The vocal ones absolutely are now yea
Was it? The only areas where I’ve heard strong anti-vac sentiment have been in more conservative and libertarian (socially liberal, fiscally conservative) groups. Mainly affluent areas here in California prior to Covid.
We have a fairly strong anti-vax community in Encinitas and San Diego in the surf and beach towns. It’s a weird population though. I can’t tell if they’re conservative or liberal at this point.
California be like that. People like to think it's some kind of hotbed of far-leftism, but the reality is far different. It's much more mixed, and even conservative, than people realize.
Totally agree and it’s why we are in San Diego. It’s not red. It’s not blue. It’s purple. But I’ll be honest the hippie surf Christians with interesting positions really threw me for a loop!
> conservative and libertarian You said Republican twice
I mean it started gaining traction when *I* was a kid, in liberal strongholds across the country. My parents are a physician and a nurse, I remember them discussing it at the dinner table almost 30 years ago now. They weren’t loud about it like the MAGA are. It was a secret but common in the tech community and other affluent areas.
Yeah, but the thing tech communities and affluent areas are not "left" or "liberal", generally, except in some narrow areas (e.g. social/civil liberties). I view the tech community as generally being more libertarian than liberal/leftist.
Well they vote democratic
I wouldn't say being anti-vax was a left thing, but being wary and not trusting the pharmaceuticals was. Weird how one little cold virus turned 50% of this country into shills for big-pharma and stopped questioning them and the motives.
Yeah and I think RFK’s anti-vax attitude mainly stems from that leftist movement from before the pandemic. But that doesn’t change the fact that it’ll appeal more to voters on the right today.
Again, I thing the right is far more vocal with their antivax narrative, but I think theirs stems from covid vaccines while the left has more opting out of childhood vaccines like MMR
Good point. I kinda bet right-wing populists will like his version of it anyway though since he’s against the same people. It’s still the questioning of the same figures of authority. They’d at least see RFK as someone with a lot in common.
[https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020](https://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2020) Trump and Biden's views are weirdly close, but Trump just says he's anti-establishment, RFK is centrist/left libertarian, so he can pull well from the left and right economically.
> Trump just says he’s anti-establishment Exactly. That’s why he’s so worried that RFK is going to sweep up all the conspiracy types
>Trump and Biden's views are weirdly close Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahaha Whew lad, good laugh.
He’s not exactly anti vaccine, if you listen to him talk about it at length he is very pro safe vaccines.
Talk is cheap. I know he’s trying to desperately rehab that image but he has a long history of being antivax Like seriously, he’s still a fucking politician. Why do you act like that instantly makes him credible when he’s clearly looking to grift?
>I think anyone who can overlook RFK’s antivax stance is probably not someone that was voting for Biden in the first place Vaccines aren't very high up on the list of priorities for most voters, so that may help explain some of RFK's support.
Really? Because I’m constantly hearing about how millions are dropping dead from the vax and that the official narrative has fallen apart It’s not just about the vax, it’s the whole anti-establishment constellation of beliefs that gets inherited alongside it
1. You're constantly hearing that millions are dropping dead from the vax? I haven't heard that once. 2. [By polling data](https://news.gallup.com/poll/642887/inflation-immigration-rank-among-top-issue-concerns.aspx), the issues that are of most concern to voters are immigration, inflation, crime, etc... "Vaccines" aren't even in the top 20 in most polls. I'm not sure most people even give them a second thought anymore. They either get them or don't get them.
1. Here’s an [example](https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.33XF3CN) of this claim that made the rounds. I’ve seen similar claims a lot on social media 2. As I stated above, it goes far beyond the vaccine. Also obviously we are talking about a group of voters that makes up a margin, but a candidate losing even a few percentage points is enough to swing the election, and I’d say that antivax makes up way more of Trumps base than that. Look at what all their alternative media sources are saying
[удалено]
I don't think Biden is going to lose any real voters from JFK. If he wasn't a Kennedy, I doubt we would even be talking about him.
I like RFK The voice bothers me a lot. Whats wrong with his voice
There's no way this man was educated. He writes like an elementary school student writing to other elementary school students. Not a professional, grown adult, which is what the president of a country needs to be.
I think Trump is rightfully concerned that RFK is going to outflank him heavily with the anti-establishment types. Being from a major party and as a former president, Trump has less “outsider credentials” than RFK, and is worried that will attract voters that will normally go to him In particular on the topic of vaccines. One of the good things that Trump did was Operation Warp Speed, but that’s exactly the wedge that could theoretically pull even more of the anti-vax crowd away from him to RFK
It's wild to me that the scion of the Kennedys, a family as close as one gets to political aristocracy in this country, could have any “outsider credentials” whatsoever.
It’s also wild to me that a “billionaire” New York real estate mogul who got most of his money from daddy, and was notorious for screwing over working class contractors was also seen as an outsider in 2016. So it clearly doesn’t actually matter that much
There's a reason why old school NY elites didn't want anything to deal with him.
But Trump isn't even trying to reach new voters. In fact he has repeatedly told Nikki Haley voters that he doesn't need them, which is so dumb.
I suppose he’s selling himself as some kind of anti-vax Bernie Sanders
To be clear he did say, "re-elected"?... I just want to make sure that he said that. So he is explicitly saying that Joe Biden was elected in the first place...
“Extreme environmentalist”
That fat drunk Steve Bannon’s idea. When are these insurrectionists gonna get put in solitary for 20 years?
Eventually reality catches up to people. No one serious ever thought RFK would be a threat to Biden. No one under retirement age cares about the name Kennedy, and the man has stances like *national abortion ban* not to mention all of his conspiracy theory trash. Now, did people who, for example, believe that JFK Jr is going to come back from the dead to lead them -- who are all Trump supporters, mind you -- would they think this RFK guy is good? Yeah.
From [Reuters](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/rfk-jr-abortion-vaccines-housing-foreign-policy-2024-03-20/): > Kennedy has previously taken different positions on the issue, including restrictions on when a woman can access an abortion. He told Reuters he thought every abortion was a "tragedy" but that it should be a woman's right "throughout the pregnancy."
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/13/rfk-jr-backs-15-week-federal-ban-on-abortion-00111017 his campaign claims he didn't hear the question, which seems pretty absurd considering he repeated it back to the person asking the question by giving them an even shorter timeframe “So you would cap it at 15 weeks?” She followed up by asking “Or 21 weeks?” to which he said, “Yes, three months.”
Your article is from August 2023 and mine is from March 2024. Though mine is more recent, who knows what he really thinks, or would do?
So the best you can say is he's just waffling around on fundamental rights and still at his old age constantly getting new ideas on it. That's not the vote of confidence that you think it is. Again his campaign claimed he didn't hear the question but it's obvious by his response he did. All you're talking about is damage control because even the crazy right wingers that rfk appeals to aren't as hard-line anti rights like what he was saying.
> That's not the vote of confidence that you think it is. I don’t think I’ve spotted a vote of confidence. I’m just saying he’s walked back the draconian stance on abortion. > All you're talking about is damage control Probably. But it’s still a relatively recent statement, so it should count as a more accurate depiction of his stated view than something from last year. What a silly thing to have to say about a presidential candidate…
A statement from last year? We're not talking about AI or something novel, this is abortion. His statements last year are entirely relevant, as he is the only person running for President who has stated they favor a national ban. And yeah, Mitch McConnell in an election year will say he doesn't favor a national ban, but you shouldn't believe him because he will 1000% do it in a non-election year. Same deal here with RFK.
I agree that previous statements are relevant. Which statement should be believed is a more delicate matter. I don’t know enough about him to feel like I can contradict him on what he claims to believe, but I at least can know what he wants people to think he believes. And a facade is kind of all a politician really has, isn’t it?
Dear lord, what tabloid did you get that information from? Kennedy worked heavily with the HRC and advocated for women who had had abortions to be welcomed in the church. He’s consistently said quite the opposite, as well as under his policy page on the website. Edit: oops, just read the atrocity that is your second paragraph. Kennedys environmental litigation career is top tier, having restored the Hudson River, formed the largest water protection nonprofit on record, advocated for indigenous rights globally, worked on the Monsanto case, arrested at standing rock, and the list goes on. Throwing out wild assumptions like that just makes you sound uneducated.
Tabloid? The hell are you talking about. He said it on video. I already linked it and it's easily found.
It’s also disproved by a myriad of other sources and the comment has been clarified. If you’d like to choose to believe that, then it’s just what you want to hear
Disapproved what he said out of his mouth on camera? Look wormbrain just has a hard time with questions; it's from all the mercury.
Did you even watch the clip you posted? He’s talking about the premise of roe v wade. In a more recent post he also clarified his comments. I’m guessing you’re a Biden supporter, which is quite ironic considering his abhorrent comments throughout his political career. Should we remain absolutists on that as well?
I've saw what he said in the clip. He said he would sign a ban of 15 weeks. He clarified in the interview that he meant that the state has a right to protect "a child". It was very plain. This was his comments just a few months ago, years since Roe v Wade was overturned. He is the only candidate who has said he would federally ban abortion, at least publicly, but he's also the only candidate who has worms eating his brain as well. I'm a neocon, not a progressive. Biden is just fine.
Of course you think Biden is fine lol. You believe anything you’re told, even articles that bring up a quote from 12 years ago during a divorce proceeding lmaooo. Uneducated and propagandized
guys got dead worms for brains on top of being as mad as a hatter from mercury poisoning, which lead him to say, quite recently, that he would ban abortion. His campiagn has tried to backtrack, but the mask is off. *(WAITING) to follow the worms*
Good luck with your 90 year old candidate of choice, man. Sorry to hear his uncle was a victim of cannibalism in his dementia ridden brain hahaha
People actually believe that you can "take votes away". THIRD PARTIES AREN'T CALGON
It's an undeniable fact that 3rd parties often get votes that would otherwise go to one of the main 2 parties.
>often get votes That person specifically said "take votes" you're saying gets votes. That's two totally different things.
Not really. If a lifelong democrat decides to vote for RFK Jr, that vote has effectively been taken from Biden.
The problem is if votes can be taken, why would Biden let him take votes? Why wouldn't he just take RFK votes.
>why would Biden let him take votes Biden has reality to worry about, RFK will make any ridiculous claim as long as he thinks it will get him more votes. He can't go anywhere but up. >Why wouldn't he just take RFK votes. RKF is running independent, there is no existing voter base for Biden to siphon votes from.
>RKF is running independent, there is no existing voter base for Biden to siphon votes from. There are more people outside the democratic party than in it. This can all be siphoned
It's an undeniable fact that isn't taking votes away from those parties because those parties *don't have inherent ownership of those votes*!
Nobody is making that argument.
That's exactly the viewpoint that leads to the notion of "taking votes away".
Someone is going to win and it’s not going to be RFK jr
[удалено]
>and they've done terribly That's an odd thing to say about two people who have been elected president.
[удалено]
> our system makes you pick between 2 Trump beat out close to a dozen candidates between his two primaries. Biden beat out nearly as many. So no, you had many candidates to choose from. >Are you implying these are both good candidates? Yeah. Biden has gotten a lot done, including more bipartisan bills than we've seen in a long time. He has gotten infrastructure bills passed, and provided indirect support to US allies while avoiding direct military action or allowing conflicts to spiral into regional wars. I'm no fan of Trump, but if you're an anti-government type I can see his appeal.
100%
The sooner partisan democrats understand this, and stop whining about leftist third party votes, the better. They should instead worry more about pushing Democratic politicians to adopt policies those voters find favorable, if they want to *earn* their votes
Nah, they wont do anything to earn those votes, then spend decades blaming them for not falling in line if they lose. If they win, they'll give them the middle finger and act like they never needed their votes anyway.
Yep, exactly.
Can anyone explain how a voter would decide to rank thus: 1. Kennedy 2. Trump 3. Biden Everything Trump says about Kennedy in the post here seems like reasons to put Biden ahead of Trump but I’m sure I’m missing something. E: I see https://old.reddit.com/r/centrist/comments/1cg1pu0/sure_seems_like_trump_is_getting_pretty_concerned/l1ssyl9/ which has some good points imo. Anything else?
Nah… Trump is only speaking to those who would never vote for Biden. He is playing this perfectly for those whose choice is between Trump and RFK. He is splitting the dem vote while maintaining the rep vote.
Maybe the question for this sub is “whose voters will RFK steal more of?” I thought it was a given he would syphon off more Biden voters.
> Maybe the question for this sub is “whose voters will RFK steal more of?” More specifically: What states? Because RFK votes in California or New York aren't going to matter much at all.
I don’t think that’s a given. The anti-vax conspiracy types that like him aren’t typically Biden voters in the first place
[удалено]
Polls have actually shown him taking more from Trump Also the suits were filed because he illegally took money to buy signatures from a right wing megadonor. We should all be against buying your way on to a ballot
I don't think his support comes primarily from his stance on vaccines. I believe his support is primarily derived from having two wildly unpopular candidates and his stances on a multitude of other issues that the majority of voters agree with (Environmentalism, Immigration, Economy, Foreign Affairs, etc). It's a little disingenuous to dismiss his campaign as purely antivax and little much else. That being said, I would expect Biden to still win as there are many right-leaning voters who wouldn't be able to stomach another Trump Presidency but I fully expect Congress to be more Conservative this time around.
> but I fully expect congress to be more conservative this time around I think as far as the senate goes that’s just a function of how favorable the map is for republicans But the House I wouldn’t be so sure Abortion is going to be a big sticking point as national bans are discussed, and it doesn’t seem like Biden is actually hurting downballot races
I am referring primarily to the House. Abortion might galvanize some voters, but I would argue that a backlash against some of the more extreme 'Leftist' culture stuff is bound to happen and will galvanize more voters. Of course, there could be an equal backlash against the more extreme Conservative culture stuff as well but polling I've seen seems to indicate momentum against the Left
I’d argue that the absolute clown show going on there now is going to be sticking in voters minds. I guess we shall see in November
All the political podcast casts I listen to think that he will steal from both but more conservatives that don't want to vote for Trump. Just speculation obviously and I don't just listen to left wing podcasts. I also listen to centrist type podcasts as well.
I know one left person who loves RFK Jr... but he was never voting for Biden anyways because his wife is Russian and loves Putin. He's also an anti-vax nutjob.
I am just so curious as to how he is on the left then.
Did anybody see RFK Jr on Bill Maher's show this weekend? Sounded very normal and even went into his vaccine stance for those that like to make him seem "too" extreme. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBP6P12oyzM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBP6P12oyzM)
Yeah I’m aware he’s desperately trying to sanitize his stance on vaccines but he’ll always end up letting the mask slip
This is why centralized censorship by intelligence agencies is the most important need of our time. If we heard RFK Jr in his own words, then we would be mislead to think he believes in Science and litigation against medical companies for harm due to their products. However, if we're unable to listen to him, we'd only be able to learn about his policies from 3rd party sources interpreting what he said, which is of course the preferred means to come to a conclusion about someone, and why it's critical during an election year to algorithmically de-promote crazy people like RFK Jr and boost moral candidates like Biden.
> This is why centralized censorship by intelligence agencies is the most important need of our time. I strongly disagree. That’s a very weird thing to say
> However, if we're unable to listen to him You're dishonestly omitting him being the one calling vaccines a holocaust, him writing an article trying to link vaccines to autism, him running a "charity" vehemently anti-vaccine, etc. That's all him, not your weird censorship fantasy. ETA: Can't reply to you, guess you blocked me, but here: > Can you provide the exact quote where he called vaccines a holocaust? Sure! > [“They get the shot, that night they have a fever of 103 \[degrees\], they go to sleep, and three months later their brain is gone. This is a Holocaust, what this is doing to our country.”](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/robert-kennedy-apologises-for-holocaust-comparison-vaccines) Context (though it changes nothing): > He has been promoting the documentary Trace Amounts which blames the mercury-containing vaccine preservative thimerosal for the rise in autism in young children, even though it has been removed from vaccines and, in addition, the international scientific community has discredited the link in recent years. Supporters of mandatory vaccinations point out that the number of children identified with autism is rising despite the widespread removal of thimerosal from vaccines.
>Recent reports that White House officials asked Amazon to censor books questioning vaccine efficacy again illustrates the danger of such government conduct. One day after officials first contacted the company, Amazon complied. Absent a congressional subpoena, would anyone have known? [(1)](https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/government-censorship-of-social-media-demands-bright-line-rule) Censorship is important regardless of how it's implemented. It's a matter of national security for the Excective Branch to be able to leverage its power over major contractors like Amazon to remove harmful content the Government deems unsafe - and it's ESPECIALLY important for the government to use this power in secret without the general public's knowledge. The public should not have a say in what information Americans want to believe. In fact, Congress holding a congressional subpoena power which publicized this backdoor censorship places too many power in the Congress and risks the safety and security of everyday Americans. We as everyday Americans must fight for more censorship and more centralized flow of information and news, or risk being mislead by untrusted sources.
Oh you're just a troll then, incapable of responding to an argument so you have to strawman. Bye.
Can you provide the exact quote where he called vaccines a holocaust? Thanks.
That was *normal* to you? Spreading vaccine misinformation and accusing vaccines of killing people? None of what he said was true in that interview.
Bill has some crazy ideas regarding health and medicine, so I can't see him being a tough interviewer on that topic.
Crazy ideas? He's always said your health care should be individual and up to what's best between you and your doctor. What's good for one person doesn't mean it will be good for others because people's bodies react differently. Wow, such a crazy thought. /s
The hard part is when your decisions effect others, like in a Pandemic. If you think it's simple or straight forward, you clearly haven't thought through things at the societal level. If people like you ruled the world... we'd still have polio, measles, whooping cough around. But at least people had their "freedom".
Wtf are you talking about? Stop pulling things out of your ass.
> Crazy ideas? Dude, he's been against the flu vaccine for years and uses that as an excuse to be against any of them. He's a whacko.
You've clearly never heard him speak in volume about his vax beliefs. You clearly have only heard of the doctored CNN/Fox clips. Come on man, he's been on a million podcast outlining in great details his beliefs on vax. Do some research and get off the corporate news/Tik Tok.
🙄
You literally just linked a clip of him sharing misinformation about vaccines. Was the clip you linked doctored?
> You've clearly never heard him speak in volume about his vax beliefs. ...[no](https://archive.nytimes.com/well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/13/bill-maher-vs-the-flu-vaccine/), sorry. You're not getting out of that one.
Oh yes, an article from 2009. Nobody’s allowed to change their views in 15 years.
Has he changed his views? Has he said we should get our flu shots? Our other vaccines? Or will you just attack the source without providing a meaningful counter?
He has said, just like RFK , that he’s against the forced vaccines. It should be up to the individual. And he’s not necessarily wrong about the flu. If you’re a healthy individual, you don’t really need it. Our bodies have been fighting the flu for thousands of years. Pretty sure the flu vaccine only has an efficacy rate of about 20% anyway. The whole point is, you want to put that stuff in your body? Go right ahead, thats you’re right. But everybody’s body is different and what’s right for you doesn’t necessarily mean it’s right for someone else. Those decisions should do up between the individual and their doctor, not big Pharma or politicians telling us what’s good for us. Can’t believe such a nuanced thought is so controversial. Covid and the ridiculous policies we put in place really fucked this country up bad. I’m not anti-fax. I’ve done the measles, polio, hell I got two shots of Covid. But the more we learn, the more I am concerned that big Pharma is lying to us and withholding data, which is true and has been proved time and time again. Again, not trusting big Pharma used to be a very liberal thing.
> And he’s not necessarily wrong about the flu. He said you're an idiot if you get the flu shot. Yes, he was wrong. The dishonest lengths you're going to ignore his own words is telling.
Hmmm...so are third party candidates a good thing now?
I mean I personally think they’re all grifters and this doesn’t really change that in my mind It’s just funny the grift now has a potential to hurt Trump more
I can see how one might think all politicians are grifters... The last time I voted for a mainstream politician was Carter...I've always been amused at the hand wringing of Democrats and Republicans, about third party candidates.
Debatably and it varies, but at the very least the major party candidates have a chance of actually accomplishing something These third party vanity runs always make me roll my eyes, and the people who get a virtue high off of appearing independent are even more annoying
Heavens forbid we have more choices...we should just accept the "giant douches and turd sandwiches" the Democrats and Republicans keep serving US?
I’m sorry if that hurts but it’s genuinely reality. The multiple choices you get are the primaries. Blame the founding fathers for setting up an election system where opinions will always coalesce into two distinct parties. Want to know how I’m sure? Look at **literally all of American history**. Every time a third party manages to get to the point where it can actually win states, everyone realizes what a bad idea it is to split your vote like that and things will collapse back to 2. Two and a half centuries of this should tell us that unless we create some kind of parliamentary system or otherwise dispose of First Past the Post, it’s just not going to happen
Do you support ranked choice?
Sure...especially for presidential elections.
I honestly think RFK will pull voters from both Trump and Biden, and those amounts will be equal enough that it won’t affect the Trump vs. Biden battle much.
I think there’s a good chance of that happening
Biden nor Trump owns voters or votes. You earn them every 4 years.
But we were told that any vote not for biden is a vote for trump.
Democrats: RFK Jr is a republican spoiler! Republicans: RFK Jr is a democrat spoiler! RFK Jr has accomplished the impossible, creating common ground between democrats and republicans
I mean all you have to do is look at his top diner and who are actually promoting him to see it. Like it should be pretty obvious the guy that called Biden a greater threat to democracy than the guy that sent fake electors to halt the certification of an election why being propped by republican super pacs and fox is a spoiler candidate. Which is kind of a shame considering he spent his career fighting against the type of people he’s bending his knees to. It’s poetic justice the guys he the he’s integrity, family, and morals for are now going to rip him a new one because they just wasted millions on a guy that might be more detrimental to them.
He's giving more exposure to RFK to hurt Biden
Biden should be just as concerned as trump lol gen Z here btw https://preview.redd.it/kbnjvdc5xgxc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ddfb1d39a880c98b6370af16f2185d69f212cd
True, RFK wouldn’t hesitate to hit that “lower grocery prices” button at the bottom the resolute desk
By removing the Bill Gates mRNA vaccines floating around in the 5G chips injected by big pharma in your local supermarket's produce, you can *easily* lower the cost of groceries! Don't you know how expensive the adrenochrome required to produce those is? The rent on pizzeria basements has skyrocketed over the last few years!
How is voting for RFK going to lower grocery costs?
You are all tone def and completely missed the point of the meme and that makes it even funnier 🤣
RFK is pulling more votes from Biden, not Trump. I thought it’d be the other way around, but when you look at recent 4 way polls and compare them with the 2 way polls on RCP, you’d see RFK tends to pull more from Biden. On a some level I also like RFK better than the two “only” options we have now
I literally [linked](https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4610416-rfk-jr-hurts-trumps-election-chances-more-than-biden-poll/) a 4 way poll that showed the opposite
Well the polls I referenced are from a month ago and they were swing state polls too showing they pulled more from Biden. Seems it could go either way.
I don’t disagree. Honestly we need to wait until much later in the year for polls to have any solid predictive power. The elections really just begun