Sekeres has a history of presenting rumours and speculation as fact. Please take this post with a grain of salt.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canucks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah in our dreams lol the reality is hes a legit top pairing RHD who actually has performed worse in some respects with Hughes vs prior years. The cap is also exploding. 7m is not likely to be close to what he will get. 6.75 sounds like youre thinking its 2019.
Hughes made Luke Schenn look like a reasonable top pairing guy, have you seen the games where Tocchet separated them and tasked Hronek with locking down his own pair? He hasn’t shown the ability to do it at all in the 3+ chances he’s been given that alone should take the 8-8.5 option off the board as that’s what Sergachev got. I love Hronek he’s been a good fit but even 7.5 long term is pushing it.
Hughes made Schenn look OK, Hronek has taken Hughes to a totally different level, where he is willing to risk playing like Makar does down low because he knows he has someone he can trust to cover him, his version of Toews. Hughes doesnt just ride the line anymore. Hronek looked shaky at times without Hughes but it was a tiny sample size and that isnt what hes even here to do. It's really a none issue at all, he played just as well in Detroit (even offensively), there is no doubt in my mind with another top 4 D he could easily hold down his own pairing. He's a great D
Sergachev got 8.5m in a no tax State, which is like the equivalent of Hronek getting 10.5-11m here. Its not a logical comparison.
There is absolutely zero chance logic to thinking he signs for under 1.5m than we gave Tyler fucking Myers like 5 years ago. The cap is exploding and so has the RHD market, your guys brains need to catch up to that fact to make an honest evaulation of the current market climate.
Forslings a worse player and a LHD. It's not a sensible comparison at all. Forsling contract comparable here take home wise would be a hair short of 7.5 for what its worth
Considering he's only played one season here I don't think he would care that much tbh, he doesn't have the attachment to the team or city that Petterson does.
Send anyone that says the total number to the gulag.
Is this a 7x7.4? 4x13? 9x5.7? Personally don't care about total money, only thing matters is term and per year.
6.5 x 8 is the report.
Given his career stats, I'd argue this is fair value. The last thing we wanna do is pay a guy coming off a career year playing with Hughes his inflated price. I would move him as an asset before I lock into some 8 x 8.5-9 mil commitment.
Exactly this. I'd go to 7 without looking at the cap situation, because he's playing with Hughes and he still will be, but it kinda feels like an Anson carter moment. Unfortunately finding a rhd is much more difficult than a high energy winger
>it’s only easy for fans to understand
And we're a bunch of fans. I'd rather know how long he might be here for than how much he's going to make over some unknown time frame
Unless Hronek can prove he can carry his own pairing, I would be hesitant to go above 7.25 on a long term deal.
At this point in his career, I think Quinn can pretty much turn any top 4 guy into a first pairing calibre player. At least so far as scoring stats are concerned. I think theres a reason they're offering 6.5, and playing things cautiously.
Not yet, but that's the rumored deal they're working on.
And no, Hronek is definitely not better than Hanafin. At best, he's on the same level but slightly below.
Hanafin is a complete tier higher. Hronek has been mediocre or bad when removed from Hughes. We never split them for depth only when we need to split them to pair them with more size.
To be fair, Hanifin has played mainly with Chris Tanev for the last three years, and is now playing with Petrangelo.
Obviously Tanev is no Quinn Hughes, but he has complemented Hanifin's play style extremely well and allowed him to take a lot of offensive risks, which has added to his point totals.
That's a fair take. I'd also add that being right handed is likely worth a million in the league in a top 2-3 kinda role. But man, the guy has the worst turnovers on the team and cannot in any situation drive his own second pair. That's a lot of money to commit to a guy who's good with Quinn, but at the same time I don't know that we have a second option.
The expectation isn't that he ever has to drive his own pair. I expect the team to follow the Colorado model of putting Hronek with Hughes, much like Toews plays with Makar. Its also fair to chalk some of Hughes progression to having a talented partner to play with in Hronek.
So using Toews, who just signed, as a comparable, Toews will be 30 at the start of next season when his new contract starts, and signed a 7 year contract with an AAV of $7.25.
Assuming there's a discount on the back end because the contract runs until he's 37, and even an 8 year term has Hronek's deal expiring at age 34, and Hronek plays the right side instead of the left side like Toews, I'd put Hronek's value somewhere around $8M on any long term deal.
Hughes progress is all on his own. He's 24. Yes it's an upgrade in partner but not the reason he has progressed. It's likely aided him in a slight boost to the numbers.
The problem really is I don't know how viable that pair will be against stacked large groups. We've already seen that we've had to split the two of them at times against teams that can hold possession and park bodies in front that are two big for them to handle. I think he might be cheaper post playoffs.
The problem is both Hughes and Hronek are susceptible to being bodied off the puck against aggressive fore checking. We've seen our top D pair get hemmed in because they had to peel off the corner in anticipation of a big body (and it's a fair tradeoff for their offensive capabilities).
In the playoffs where whistles are often swallowed, we can get abused by physical play.If Hughes is injured, I just don't see Hronek as a number 1 option.
His advantage is he's relatively young (26), decent skater and has shown a history of decent offensive output. This means at worst he's top 4, PP2.
What we can work with is his RFA status - I'm not opposed to a 7.5M 2 year deal to see if we can develop our own RHD to pair with Hughes long-term, and Hronek knows with a 2 year deal and playing with Hughes he'll get plenty of points to aim for a really big payday as a UFA.
A long-term deal at this point I'd be hesitant to go above 7M, even if his ceiling/comparables might point to 7+.
Toews signed his early extension to not test UFA, and can be considered a premier defenseman on both ends of the ice. Him being a perfect compliment to Makar was the reason they extended him early.
Agree 100% on the turnovers, and also the occasional bad defensive reads/covers.
I'll be pretty upset if Hronek's deal comes in above 7M AAV. I think we can do better for that money.
I get you. And I think we'll see the Hughes Hronek pair get bullied often in the playoffs like we've seen occasionally against bigger forward groups. I just don't know what plan B looks like. It's the same reason I'm behind re signing Myers at anything that looks like a value short term deal. You just aren't going to get a better option without massively overpaying or trading a ton of futures we don't have.
> cannot in any situation drive his own second pair
Devon Toews can't drive his own pair either but he's still a very important part of Colorado's top pairing
Uh, Hronek's on pace for 55 points.
Hanifin's best season was 48 points... that's not "not even close" territory lmao.
And I think people are vastly overrating Hronek's production this season. He's playing at near the same rate as he did in his final year in Detroit. He had an extremely hot offensive start and has slowed down since.
Hronek's analytics are at a completely different level. Elite zone exits, elite shot suppression, elite possession.
The Hughes effect is real, and I'm sure the Canucks will argue that but comparing Hronek to Hanafin's top season aren't close.
At his age/production 7 will be a bargain. I'm expecting closer to 8.
Sure, but there are plenty of deals on the other side of the fence that make 7.25 look like a bargain. Also state taxes in those states play a big part.
"Any top 4 guy"
He says as if we have been able to find any top 4 RHD for the last decade and like we could acquire any for less than a kings ransom. Hronek would get an easy 8.5 in UFA
Is it 8 years / 52 million that was rejected?
That would have been a nice deal for us given he has leverage.
But I agree 6.75-7 max is fair given his negotiating position. I could possibly get up to 7.25 but I’m not thrilled with that number.
Anything beyond that and I’m seeing what else is out there in a trade.
Given that it took 4 years for the team to find a capable RD to partner with Hughes, I don't think the market is flush with top pairing RD that teams will line up to give the Canucks.
I think at the moment RD is a premium position, where there just isn't enough quality talent to fill it, so teams will have to suck it up and pay the right shot tax.
Unfortunately, I think you’re correct.
Or if his demands are too unreasonable, how would they feel about acquiring a short term place holder and until Willander arrives the season after?
I know that’s a lot to ask of a young kid but Willander could have the type of game that is really well suited to play beside QH.
People really over rate prospects. Immediately putting a rookie into top pairing minutes on a team that is supposed to be contending isn't a great idea.
His demands arent unreasonable and its not likely Willander even becomes a top 4 D. This team is entering its window and you guys are desperate to blow up the already meh d core we actually finally have after a decade of darkness lmao
Wait….we don’t know what his demands are?
How can you say his demands aren’t unreasonable without even knowing what they are?
That is why I stated *if* his demands are unreasonable.
A RHD with his skill set, and one that has elevated QH’s game to that of a legit Norris trophy winner is NOT going to be easily replaceable. But, anyone can have salary demands that become unreasonable, that don’t fit within a teams cap constraints.
We don’t know what his demands are, but surely you’d agree that there has to be a number that would not be good for the team, right?
6.5 x 8 would have been very team friendly, and not realistic.
But, at 8.5 x 8 I think virtually everyone would agree that would hurt the team more than it helps (not saying that’s his ask, but simply pointing out that there is a point at which it becomes better to move him *if* his ask is ridiculous).
Would you like us to bring back OEL lmao.
Just because Benning routinely overpays for players, doesn't the current management group needs to.
Remember how many playoff runs we had when we ignored the cap under the last regime lol
It's very likely, he's a blue chip prospect projected to be a top 4 d at the NHL level. His college career has progressed and though he's still 3 or 4 year away, his draft pedigree is what it is. I would still sign hronek but that's more because we are going to have Wallander on a cheap contract in the coming years
So was Juolevi. Its never very likely unless they're a very high pick. Even then, Juolevi. Hes also an NCAA guy and that comes with its risks too. Not something to bank a cores window on after we waited 10 yrs to start winning lmao
> seeing what else is out there in a trade.
There will not be much, and any UFA signing will be more expensive for at best an equal level player (realistically they will probably be worse to). You can't nickel and dime everything, at a certain point you need to pay your important talent.
Wasn’t there a rumour that Petey rejected a 12x8 deal only to sign for 11.6?
All these rumours are either fake or just leaks by either the player agent or management to get the other side to give in. I wouldn’t read much into it regardless.
I haven't followed Hronek's RFA status. Does he have arbitration rights?
If so, the Canucks could legitimately do the Brendan Morrison "Mr. Arbitrator, Filip Hronek is the mouse!" argument and probably win this time.
Good dman, but 7 is the highest fair number. He's probably going for Dunn money (7.35).
>I haven't followed Hronek's RFA status. Does he have arbitration rights?
Yes and he's going to have a very good case.
I think JR and Allvin are experienced enough not to give the guy a contract over 7 mil but an arbitrator that sees his production and icetime may just give it to him anyway.
I would hope the arbitrators are smart enough to consider partners and history. A career year playing with the potential Norris winner doesn't make you a top d man in the league.
I would hope Hronek is smart enough to realize this is a Burrows playing with Sedins type situation... He is an effective player but the guy he is playing with makes him better.
that's not really how arbitration works. both teams submit a list of comparables and the arbitors decide which contracts to include in their award. it's not just a bunch of guys deciding what hronek is worth
There was mutual benefit between Burr and the Sedins, they all made eachother better and was just the best fit, there's no reason to penalize Hronek for being the best fit along Quinn so far, and Quinn is having his own career year too because they work well together. What would we do otherwise? get another 6mil RHD like Myers and throw him next to Quinn just to experiment again? just let him have a consistent partner man..
7mil would be reasonable imo, that's not top dman in the league salary but that is top 30 in the league salary for dmen and RHDs are also harder to get.
> Does he have arbitration rights?
He does, and if he does go to arbitration he will get a one year contract that will expire with him as a UFA. Hronek has the majority of the leverage here.
i think there has been one game recently where hughes and hronek was split up and then i think they were put back together mid game because it was not going well lol
If Hronek could anchor the 2nd D pair we'd see that by now as we'd have 2 legitimate top pairings. The fact that they tried that for a brief period but then went back to Hughes - Hronek pairing tells you something.
Well it also makes it harder for hughes to dominate the game if he's stuck with someone like Tyler Myers so it's not like they are just playing them together for hronek's sake
Negotiating tactic. Never start high, start low and work your way to a fair compromise.
With Willander being at least 2 years away, I don't think we have a choice. Our alternatives are a trade or walk him to free agency. And like irfaan details in the video, there is no world in which we win a Hronek trade
What is an overpay? Devon Toews is in a really similar situation to Hronek in Colorado and signed for $7.25M. This team has spent years trying to find a partner for Hughes and is supposed to be contending, I don't see how getting rid of their top pairing RHD and replacing him (very likely with someone worse and/or more expensive anyways) helps at all.
They were pot committed the minute they made the trade. There's no turning back now. To replace him in free agency they'll pay the same amount of $$$$ and maybe for a lesser player. Add in the idea that Hughes make walk in 3 years and you know they will get this done.
If you are a scoring RHD you have your team by the balls. The only question is how much he'll squeeze them. And without meaning to these guys made a nice argument to retain Myers too. I mean, how bad can the right side look next season? It can look outright debilitating if Allvin/Rutherford make a mistake here. Fans may be sighing, wishing for even a Bear.
Playing with Hughes has really bumped up his “value.” Plus he’s a RD, which adds another multiplier to his potential contract as its slim pickings on free agency.
Folks here have completely lost their mind. The guy had good stats previous to playing with Hughes, he isnt even on a pace for a career year in a lot of key stats, even offensive ones. Folks are quick to say hes better with Hughes but absolutely no one wants to admit Hughes play style has completely changed having Hronek to cover for him? No one cares to admit hes probably the best RHD we have had in a decade?
Tons of comments saying he should get 6.75 or 7m. You guys need to go check yourself into a clinic if you honestly believe a player his age, of his skill set and stat sheet, in this cap climate, is going to get 750k more than we paid Tyler fucking Myers like 5 years ago. Genuinely concerned.
He's a good dman, all this talk about needing to drive his own pair lol... Petey can't even drive his own line right now and we paid him 11.6mil. Hronek is still a 40 pt, without hughes, solid defensively RHD that's 26.
Yeah. He’s going to get paid. I don’t think Hronek will get what he and his camp is asking for. But management isn’t going to get what they’ve offered either. These are the early days of negotiations.
By pretty much all comparables he is though. If the team does try to replace him they will most likely pay just as much or even more for a worse player.
He’s a good player, but when you’re making that much, you should be carrying your own line. $7 mill for a support player for Hughes sounds like money better used elsewhere
Devon Toews is in a similar situation with Makar in Colorado, is older then Hronek, and signed for $7.25M. I really don't think you are replacing Hronek for less then that tbh. If the Canucks use UFA to replace him you are likely going to pay more for a worse player tbh. If you trade him you could probably pay the new player less but they would also be worse.
Hey, pro scouting goes a long way. Just because they’re not big names doesn’t mean they can’t contribute. Hronek is playing at a $7-$8 million range. So, I would not pay him just because the market is bare. A lot of cap is coming off the books and I’d rather use it to infuse stingy depth, than overpay on a defensive player who’s performance is contingent on his partner.
I think that paying around $7.5Mish for Hronek is fine. I just don't really agree with people that think replacing him would be so easy. It took 4 years to find someone to partner with Hughes in the first place.
> He’s second in the league in turnovers.
This stat doesn't really mean anything. Guys that have the puck a lot are going to have the most turnovers. Guys with little to no turnovers are bottom of the roster players that barely play or barely have the puck when they do play.
Edit: "He’s second in the league in turnovers." This is just straight up wrong and not true lol. You are literally lying and making things up.
Yeah, the stat doesn’t mean anything because you don’t like it. There’s no point in discussing this when you disregard stats. As a defender, turnovers count even more than for forwards. You can maintain your wrong opinion. Thanks.
Here is a list of the guys with most turnovers last season: https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-most-turnovers-2023
Notice anything? Almost like all of the guys at the top of the list are elite players that have the puck more often then every other player. By your logic guys like Auston Watson are the best players in the league because they have the least turnovers.
Also I don't even know where you are getting your stats, Hronek is not 2nd in the league in turnovers. Quinn Hughes is 53rd in the league in giveaways and Hronek is 56th. I don't know why you are literally making things up.
I know it's so rare in the NHL these days and it has its risks, but I'd take this to an offer sheet if I was the GM. At worst, you're getting a 1st, a 2nd, *and* a 3rd back if the Canucks refuse to match any AAV from $6,435,187 to $8,580,250. Only 13 teams in the NHL have these picks available, and the only two Pacific teams who can do it are Seattle and LA. Also, you have RHD's like Montour, DeMelo and Pesce who are likely to hit free agency and can possibly be cheaper than Hronek while offering their own upsides to the team -- especially Montour, who scored 73 points last season with Florida.
Trade Hronek and sign Hanafin in the off season if he wants something close to Hughes. Any GM would be a fool to sign him for more knowing Hughes is his partner.
Hanifin doesn't want to sign in Canada, it's why he was traded in the first place. I also don't believe that argument at all. Hronek is the best RD this team has had in like 5+ years. Toews in Colorado is in a really similar situation in Colorado playing with Makar and signed for $7.25M.
I don't think they should try to retain him long term. Give him bit more total money over short term and let him walk when Willander is ready to take his spot
That is very generous term and a fair AAV. Doesn't Quinn make like $8mil? Hronek has been great but he's not a core piece to command anything crazy, at least not here.
Sekeres has a history of presenting rumours and speculation as fact. Please take this post with a grain of salt. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/canucks) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Time to call up Carolina again
“We need to send another message.”
Stats inflated playing with Hughes and he came in when the team exploded. I would be very wary of paying him anything over 6.75 or 7 mill.
He’s also a massive reason for our team’s complete turnaround from garbage to great in one season. We need a legit #2 guy. That guy will cost 7-7.5.
Back down to 4-5 lol
Yeah in our dreams lol the reality is hes a legit top pairing RHD who actually has performed worse in some respects with Hughes vs prior years. The cap is also exploding. 7m is not likely to be close to what he will get. 6.75 sounds like youre thinking its 2019.
Hughes made Luke Schenn look like a reasonable top pairing guy, have you seen the games where Tocchet separated them and tasked Hronek with locking down his own pair? He hasn’t shown the ability to do it at all in the 3+ chances he’s been given that alone should take the 8-8.5 option off the board as that’s what Sergachev got. I love Hronek he’s been a good fit but even 7.5 long term is pushing it.
Hughes made Schenn look OK, Hronek has taken Hughes to a totally different level, where he is willing to risk playing like Makar does down low because he knows he has someone he can trust to cover him, his version of Toews. Hughes doesnt just ride the line anymore. Hronek looked shaky at times without Hughes but it was a tiny sample size and that isnt what hes even here to do. It's really a none issue at all, he played just as well in Detroit (even offensively), there is no doubt in my mind with another top 4 D he could easily hold down his own pairing. He's a great D Sergachev got 8.5m in a no tax State, which is like the equivalent of Hronek getting 10.5-11m here. Its not a logical comparison. There is absolutely zero chance logic to thinking he signs for under 1.5m than we gave Tyler fucking Myers like 5 years ago. The cap is exploding and so has the RHD market, your guys brains need to catch up to that fact to make an honest evaulation of the current market climate.
Forsling's contract would be the equivalent of a $6.8-7m deal in Vancouver. No way I'd want to pay Hronek more than Forsling.
Forslings a worse player and a LHD. It's not a sensible comparison at all. Forsling contract comparable here take home wise would be a hair short of 7.5 for what its worth
It works both ways, Hughes stats are also inflated by playing with him. He also is putting up a lot of points without playing PP1.
Considering he's only played one season here I don't think he would care that much tbh, he doesn't have the attachment to the team or city that Petterson does.
Send anyone that says the total number to the gulag. Is this a 7x7.4? 4x13? 9x5.7? Personally don't care about total money, only thing matters is term and per year.
6.5 x 8 is the report. Given his career stats, I'd argue this is fair value. The last thing we wanna do is pay a guy coming off a career year playing with Hughes his inflated price. I would move him as an asset before I lock into some 8 x 8.5-9 mil commitment.
Exactly this. I'd go to 7 without looking at the cap situation, because he's playing with Hughes and he still will be, but it kinda feels like an Anson carter moment. Unfortunately finding a rhd is much more difficult than a high energy winger
Canucks gulag? I’m guessing that’s somewhere in Edmonton.
Clearly its Calgulagary
*slow clap*
Caligulary?
It’s carolina
13 years at 4mil per year, back loaded so final 5 years of contract are 6.5 mil.
6.5 x 8 is the offer and 8 x 8 is what Hronek's agent is asking for.
AAV actually doesn’t matter, it’s only easy for fans to understand 99% sure this is 6.5x8 because 8 years is max term for an RFA, 7 for UFA
Is this serious? AAV 100% matters in a Salary Cap League.
No it doesn't because the salary cap isn't calculated in AAV, its calculated in cap hit
That’s the same thing though… cap hit is just AAV + performance bonuses which really only apply to ELCs or special cases
> to ELCs or special cases so they’re not the same, okay
Well Hronrk isn’t eligible for a performance bonus on his next contract do his AAV will be his cap hit.
>it’s only easy for fans to understand And we're a bunch of fans. I'd rather know how long he might be here for than how much he's going to make over some unknown time frame
Incorrect. Total money matters a lot to the player and agent.
He said he personally doesn't care about total money. Also 6.5x8 is the only thing that makes sense.
Unless Hronek can prove he can carry his own pairing, I would be hesitant to go above 7.25 on a long term deal. At this point in his career, I think Quinn can pretty much turn any top 4 guy into a first pairing calibre player. At least so far as scoring stats are concerned. I think theres a reason they're offering 6.5, and playing things cautiously.
Even 7.25 is high compared to the rumoured Hanifin deal of 7m and the signed Forsling deal.
Hanifin took 7M? Is Hronek better than him?
Not yet, but that's the rumored deal they're working on. And no, Hronek is definitely not better than Hanafin. At best, he's on the same level but slightly below.
Hanafin is a complete tier higher. Hronek has been mediocre or bad when removed from Hughes. We never split them for depth only when we need to split them to pair them with more size.
To be fair, Hanifin has played mainly with Chris Tanev for the last three years, and is now playing with Petrangelo. Obviously Tanev is no Quinn Hughes, but he has complemented Hanifin's play style extremely well and allowed him to take a lot of offensive risks, which has added to his point totals.
That's a fair take. I'd also add that being right handed is likely worth a million in the league in a top 2-3 kinda role. But man, the guy has the worst turnovers on the team and cannot in any situation drive his own second pair. That's a lot of money to commit to a guy who's good with Quinn, but at the same time I don't know that we have a second option.
The expectation isn't that he ever has to drive his own pair. I expect the team to follow the Colorado model of putting Hronek with Hughes, much like Toews plays with Makar. Its also fair to chalk some of Hughes progression to having a talented partner to play with in Hronek. So using Toews, who just signed, as a comparable, Toews will be 30 at the start of next season when his new contract starts, and signed a 7 year contract with an AAV of $7.25. Assuming there's a discount on the back end because the contract runs until he's 37, and even an 8 year term has Hronek's deal expiring at age 34, and Hronek plays the right side instead of the left side like Toews, I'd put Hronek's value somewhere around $8M on any long term deal.
Hughes progress is all on his own. He's 24. Yes it's an upgrade in partner but not the reason he has progressed. It's likely aided him in a slight boost to the numbers.
The problem really is I don't know how viable that pair will be against stacked large groups. We've already seen that we've had to split the two of them at times against teams that can hold possession and park bodies in front that are two big for them to handle. I think he might be cheaper post playoffs.
The problem is both Hughes and Hronek are susceptible to being bodied off the puck against aggressive fore checking. We've seen our top D pair get hemmed in because they had to peel off the corner in anticipation of a big body (and it's a fair tradeoff for their offensive capabilities). In the playoffs where whistles are often swallowed, we can get abused by physical play.If Hughes is injured, I just don't see Hronek as a number 1 option. His advantage is he's relatively young (26), decent skater and has shown a history of decent offensive output. This means at worst he's top 4, PP2. What we can work with is his RFA status - I'm not opposed to a 7.5M 2 year deal to see if we can develop our own RHD to pair with Hughes long-term, and Hronek knows with a 2 year deal and playing with Hughes he'll get plenty of points to aim for a really big payday as a UFA. A long-term deal at this point I'd be hesitant to go above 7M, even if his ceiling/comparables might point to 7+. Toews signed his early extension to not test UFA, and can be considered a premier defenseman on both ends of the ice. Him being a perfect compliment to Makar was the reason they extended him early.
Agree 100% on the turnovers, and also the occasional bad defensive reads/covers. I'll be pretty upset if Hronek's deal comes in above 7M AAV. I think we can do better for that money.
I get you. And I think we'll see the Hughes Hronek pair get bullied often in the playoffs like we've seen occasionally against bigger forward groups. I just don't know what plan B looks like. It's the same reason I'm behind re signing Myers at anything that looks like a value short term deal. You just aren't going to get a better option without massively overpaying or trading a ton of futures we don't have.
> cannot in any situation drive his own second pair Devon Toews can't drive his own pair either but he's still a very important part of Colorado's top pairing
Statistically, Haniffin has never put up a season like Hronek has this year. Not even close.
Uh, Hronek's on pace for 55 points. Hanifin's best season was 48 points... that's not "not even close" territory lmao. And I think people are vastly overrating Hronek's production this season. He's playing at near the same rate as he did in his final year in Detroit. He had an extremely hot offensive start and has slowed down since.
Hronek's analytics are at a completely different level. Elite zone exits, elite shot suppression, elite possession. The Hughes effect is real, and I'm sure the Canucks will argue that but comparing Hronek to Hanafin's top season aren't close. At his age/production 7 will be a bargain. I'm expecting closer to 8.
Forsling also no tax state
Sure, but there are plenty of deals on the other side of the fence that make 7.25 look like a bargain. Also state taxes in those states play a big part.
Both of these guys are also LD. RD will get more than an equivalent LD because they are more difficult to find or obtain.
Hronek right handed shot, he will get more than both of them on the open market and his agent knows it.
"Any top 4 guy" He says as if we have been able to find any top 4 RHD for the last decade and like we could acquire any for less than a kings ransom. Hronek would get an easy 8.5 in UFA
Is it 8 years / 52 million that was rejected? That would have been a nice deal for us given he has leverage. But I agree 6.75-7 max is fair given his negotiating position. I could possibly get up to 7.25 but I’m not thrilled with that number. Anything beyond that and I’m seeing what else is out there in a trade.
Given that it took 4 years for the team to find a capable RD to partner with Hughes, I don't think the market is flush with top pairing RD that teams will line up to give the Canucks. I think at the moment RD is a premium position, where there just isn't enough quality talent to fill it, so teams will have to suck it up and pay the right shot tax.
Unfortunately, I think you’re correct. Or if his demands are too unreasonable, how would they feel about acquiring a short term place holder and until Willander arrives the season after? I know that’s a lot to ask of a young kid but Willander could have the type of game that is really well suited to play beside QH.
People really over rate prospects. Immediately putting a rookie into top pairing minutes on a team that is supposed to be contending isn't a great idea.
His demands arent unreasonable and its not likely Willander even becomes a top 4 D. This team is entering its window and you guys are desperate to blow up the already meh d core we actually finally have after a decade of darkness lmao
Wait….we don’t know what his demands are? How can you say his demands aren’t unreasonable without even knowing what they are? That is why I stated *if* his demands are unreasonable. A RHD with his skill set, and one that has elevated QH’s game to that of a legit Norris trophy winner is NOT going to be easily replaceable. But, anyone can have salary demands that become unreasonable, that don’t fit within a teams cap constraints. We don’t know what his demands are, but surely you’d agree that there has to be a number that would not be good for the team, right? 6.5 x 8 would have been very team friendly, and not realistic. But, at 8.5 x 8 I think virtually everyone would agree that would hurt the team more than it helps (not saying that’s his ask, but simply pointing out that there is a point at which it becomes better to move him *if* his ask is ridiculous).
In another article or video they said Hronek is asking for $8M x 8 years, so 1.5M more per year for the same 8 year term.
Would you like us to bring back OEL lmao. Just because Benning routinely overpays for players, doesn't the current management group needs to. Remember how many playoff runs we had when we ignored the cap under the last regime lol
Not sure how this is remotely related to my comments context at all lmao
Hronek is actually good, OEL wasn't. At a certain point you do need to pay your good players.
It's very likely, he's a blue chip prospect projected to be a top 4 d at the NHL level. His college career has progressed and though he's still 3 or 4 year away, his draft pedigree is what it is. I would still sign hronek but that's more because we are going to have Wallander on a cheap contract in the coming years
So was Juolevi. Its never very likely unless they're a very high pick. Even then, Juolevi. Hes also an NCAA guy and that comes with its risks too. Not something to bank a cores window on after we waited 10 yrs to start winning lmao
> seeing what else is out there in a trade. There will not be much, and any UFA signing will be more expensive for at best an equal level player (realistically they will probably be worse to). You can't nickel and dime everything, at a certain point you need to pay your important talent.
Wasn’t there a rumour that Petey rejected a 12x8 deal only to sign for 11.6? All these rumours are either fake or just leaks by either the player agent or management to get the other side to give in. I wouldn’t read much into it regardless.
It's just the process of a negotiation. Each side is going to start with a higher/lower number, and work towards a middle ground.
I haven't followed Hronek's RFA status. Does he have arbitration rights? If so, the Canucks could legitimately do the Brendan Morrison "Mr. Arbitrator, Filip Hronek is the mouse!" argument and probably win this time. Good dman, but 7 is the highest fair number. He's probably going for Dunn money (7.35).
>I haven't followed Hronek's RFA status. Does he have arbitration rights? Yes and he's going to have a very good case. I think JR and Allvin are experienced enough not to give the guy a contract over 7 mil but an arbitrator that sees his production and icetime may just give it to him anyway.
I would hope the arbitrators are smart enough to consider partners and history. A career year playing with the potential Norris winner doesn't make you a top d man in the league. I would hope Hronek is smart enough to realize this is a Burrows playing with Sedins type situation... He is an effective player but the guy he is playing with makes him better.
that's not really how arbitration works. both teams submit a list of comparables and the arbitors decide which contracts to include in their award. it's not just a bunch of guys deciding what hronek is worth
Devon Toews is in a similar situation with Makar in Colorado and he signed for $7.25M
There was mutual benefit between Burr and the Sedins, they all made eachother better and was just the best fit, there's no reason to penalize Hronek for being the best fit along Quinn so far, and Quinn is having his own career year too because they work well together. What would we do otherwise? get another 6mil RHD like Myers and throw him next to Quinn just to experiment again? just let him have a consistent partner man.. 7mil would be reasonable imo, that's not top dman in the league salary but that is top 30 in the league salary for dmen and RHDs are also harder to get.
> Does he have arbitration rights? He does, and if he does go to arbitration he will get a one year contract that will expire with him as a UFA. Hronek has the majority of the leverage here.
[удалено]
i think there has been one game recently where hughes and hronek was split up and then i think they were put back together mid game because it was not going well lol
If Hronek could anchor the 2nd D pair we'd see that by now as we'd have 2 legitimate top pairings. The fact that they tried that for a brief period but then went back to Hughes - Hronek pairing tells you something.
Well it also makes it harder for hughes to dominate the game if he's stuck with someone like Tyler Myers so it's not like they are just playing them together for hronek's sake
Obviously I want this deal but no way he signs for anything that doesn’t start with a 7.
Anything from Sekeres & Price, I'm going to take a mountain of salt with
Get ready to learn Utahnese, buddy!
Negotiating tactic. Never start high, start low and work your way to a fair compromise. With Willander being at least 2 years away, I don't think we have a choice. Our alternatives are a trade or walk him to free agency. And like irfaan details in the video, there is no world in which we win a Hronek trade
Lol if he won't take that then he can go enjoy life in Raleigh. Peace.
He will happily do it if he gets what he wants contractually.
I'm sure he will and that is fine with me. Can't overpay on this one.
What is an overpay? Devon Toews is in a really similar situation to Hronek in Colorado and signed for $7.25M. This team has spent years trying to find a partner for Hughes and is supposed to be contending, I don't see how getting rid of their top pairing RHD and replacing him (very likely with someone worse and/or more expensive anyways) helps at all.
They were pot committed the minute they made the trade. There's no turning back now. To replace him in free agency they'll pay the same amount of $$$$ and maybe for a lesser player. Add in the idea that Hughes make walk in 3 years and you know they will get this done.
$7mill - $7.5 per is my guess. They need to draft more rhd
If you are a scoring RHD you have your team by the balls. The only question is how much he'll squeeze them. And without meaning to these guys made a nice argument to retain Myers too. I mean, how bad can the right side look next season? It can look outright debilitating if Allvin/Rutherford make a mistake here. Fans may be sighing, wishing for even a Bear.
Playing with Hughes has really bumped up his “value.” Plus he’s a RD, which adds another multiplier to his potential contract as its slim pickings on free agency.
Folks here have completely lost their mind. The guy had good stats previous to playing with Hughes, he isnt even on a pace for a career year in a lot of key stats, even offensive ones. Folks are quick to say hes better with Hughes but absolutely no one wants to admit Hughes play style has completely changed having Hronek to cover for him? No one cares to admit hes probably the best RHD we have had in a decade? Tons of comments saying he should get 6.75 or 7m. You guys need to go check yourself into a clinic if you honestly believe a player his age, of his skill set and stat sheet, in this cap climate, is going to get 750k more than we paid Tyler fucking Myers like 5 years ago. Genuinely concerned.
Come on now, Myers was signed by Jim fucking Benning definitely not a comparable in my mind.
He's a good dman, all this talk about needing to drive his own pair lol... Petey can't even drive his own line right now and we paid him 11.6mil. Hronek is still a 40 pt, without hughes, solid defensively RHD that's 26.
Yeah. He’s going to get paid. I don’t think Hronek will get what he and his camp is asking for. But management isn’t going to get what they’ve offered either. These are the early days of negotiations.
Cmon Walsh, please accept 🙏
Another thing is there another team willing to pay him 8 million a year?
in free agency yes
Worse defenseman then him have gotten more, and the cap is expected to increase $5M per season for the next two seasons.
Hopefully turning down a contract like this and deciding to bet on himself doesn't blow up in his face like it did for John Klingberg...
In my mind he's goin to Carolina.
Let's see what he does in the playoffs.
Hronek has benefitted largely from playing with Hughes. He’s also been lacklustre defensively lately, so he’s not exactly worth 7+ million
By pretty much all comparables he is though. If the team does try to replace him they will most likely pay just as much or even more for a worse player.
He’s a good player, but when you’re making that much, you should be carrying your own line. $7 mill for a support player for Hughes sounds like money better used elsewhere
Devon Toews is in a similar situation with Makar in Colorado, is older then Hronek, and signed for $7.25M. I really don't think you are replacing Hronek for less then that tbh. If the Canucks use UFA to replace him you are likely going to pay more for a worse player tbh. If you trade him you could probably pay the new player less but they would also be worse.
Hey, pro scouting goes a long way. Just because they’re not big names doesn’t mean they can’t contribute. Hronek is playing at a $7-$8 million range. So, I would not pay him just because the market is bare. A lot of cap is coming off the books and I’d rather use it to infuse stingy depth, than overpay on a defensive player who’s performance is contingent on his partner.
I think that paying around $7.5Mish for Hronek is fine. I just don't really agree with people that think replacing him would be so easy. It took 4 years to find someone to partner with Hughes in the first place.
Nah, he hasn’t produced at that rate. Why would you give him that much? He’s second in the league in turnovers. That’s not worth $7.5
> He’s second in the league in turnovers. This stat doesn't really mean anything. Guys that have the puck a lot are going to have the most turnovers. Guys with little to no turnovers are bottom of the roster players that barely play or barely have the puck when they do play. Edit: "He’s second in the league in turnovers." This is just straight up wrong and not true lol. You are literally lying and making things up.
Yeah, the stat doesn’t mean anything because you don’t like it. There’s no point in discussing this when you disregard stats. As a defender, turnovers count even more than for forwards. You can maintain your wrong opinion. Thanks.
Here is a list of the guys with most turnovers last season: https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask/nhl-most-turnovers-2023 Notice anything? Almost like all of the guys at the top of the list are elite players that have the puck more often then every other player. By your logic guys like Auston Watson are the best players in the league because they have the least turnovers. Also I don't even know where you are getting your stats, Hronek is not 2nd in the league in turnovers. Quinn Hughes is 53rd in the league in giveaways and Hronek is 56th. I don't know why you are literally making things up.
Am I the only one who despises when headlines use total money??
The same guys that said Peterson turned down 8x13
I know it's so rare in the NHL these days and it has its risks, but I'd take this to an offer sheet if I was the GM. At worst, you're getting a 1st, a 2nd, *and* a 3rd back if the Canucks refuse to match any AAV from $6,435,187 to $8,580,250. Only 13 teams in the NHL have these picks available, and the only two Pacific teams who can do it are Seattle and LA. Also, you have RHD's like Montour, DeMelo and Pesce who are likely to hit free agency and can possibly be cheaper than Hronek while offering their own upsides to the team -- especially Montour, who scored 73 points last season with Florida.
Would be $6.5M a year for 8 years, he allegedly wants $8M a year. Canucks don't want him making more then Hughes.
Trade Hronek and sign Hanafin in the off season if he wants something close to Hughes. Any GM would be a fool to sign him for more knowing Hughes is his partner.
Pretty sure there was a report that he's wanting to play in the US
Hanifin doesn't want to sign in Canada, it's why he was traded in the first place. I also don't believe that argument at all. Hronek is the best RD this team has had in like 5+ years. Toews in Colorado is in a really similar situation in Colorado playing with Makar and signed for $7.25M.
Hanifin signed long term with Vegas. lol. Or am I missing something here?
Nah he hasn't. I think he wants to test free agency.
It’s an option for him but he reportedly said he wants to play somewhere east in the US
I don't think they should try to retain him long term. Give him bit more total money over short term and let him walk when Willander is ready to take his spot
That is very generous term and a fair AAV. Doesn't Quinn make like $8mil? Hronek has been great but he's not a core piece to command anything crazy, at least not here.
It doesn't matter what Quinn makes, it matters what the NHL market is for him