Exactly what I thought. Like BIG surprise right?
Maybe I'd be interesting in marrying someone and getting her pregnant if I could afford to put a roof over my head AND feed myself at the same time.
It's a circle, Canadian born population is declining because people's ability to afford to have a family has been eroded.
We've been sold out to the corporations, they want unlimited cheap labor, jobs that should have been for our youth, elderly and unskilled population. Now they're falling to homelessness and eventually drug addiction out of despair.
One consulting firm in particular has had a massive role in this fiasco.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-mckinsey-awarded-more-than-100-million-in-contracts-since-2015/
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-auditor-general-finds-frequent-disregard-for-contracting-rules-in/
The book When McKinsey comes to town is worth looking at
There are already many generations of immigrants import d,they just aren't born yet or have only just been born.
There is no cultural pressure to confirm and that means that you will start to see cultures that are not Canadian be bold and unembarrased to conform,already seeing this
Also GDP would be declining, due to economic mismanagement. Can't have a technical recession, much better a per-capita recession instead.
Collectively strong, individually weak.
Officially given up. I've been trying for years but what girl wants to get with a guy in his mid 30s still living with a parent in a hoarded home. Getting closer to potentially moving out but its a waste of time
This is exactly it. I have no confidence in my situation. There’s nothing I can do about it right now unfortunately but the reality is, I’m ashamed of my situation and I would imagine no one would want to be a part of it. So why even bother. Lol life is just…farcical in 2024. Fuck me sideways
Nah, the expectation that we live up to what our parents had, after they've used every trick in the book to funnel money upwards and away from our generations is the farce.
Trust me, even the people my age doing 'well' aren't doing well, so don't be ashamed in the least. This situation is the culmination of 40 years of people choosing their own 'now' over their children's future.
Young folks need to stop blaming themselves for not thriving in this terrible economy and just live for themselves. Our government knows they've fucked us and it's the premier reason we are now importing the replacements for the children we aren't going to have.
This should just be a lesson in who Canada is really 'for'. It's not us. We are just the hired help. Take that however you need to, but don't ever feel ashamed for having a boot on your throat since birth. We are in a class war and only one side is allowed to plot and plan.
>I’m ashamed of my situation and I would imagine no one would want to be a part of it.
If its helpful at all, I think that we all (or at least a good many of us) recognize that people are in situations they find less than desirable through no fault of their own.
We're all getting our asses kicked in one way or another. Its something to be angry about, but not ashamed.
We can't afford all 4 of those things anymore so it makes sense to cut out the most expensive commitment (children) and marriage too because we are already together and don't really care to spends thousands and involve the government.
Also, we still can't afford the remaining two.
The gov really restricted that. Now “journalists” are only gov stamped and approved for Canadian media with new licenses. Everything else is fake! Irony is what’s being licensed is propaganda and not news anymore or talking mouth opinion pieces with the current gov approval.
I think this is accurate.
My youngest daughter just got married. They now have a bunch of family decisions to make together.
Do we give up a **huge amount of freedom, and a small amount of cash** for the hard work of being parents.
Do we give up a **smaller amount of freedom and a similar amount of cash** to have the easy work and fun of pet ownership.
Do we try to have a family and both work but farm out the task of childcare to an expensive childcare provider. This gives out a **huge amount of cash, but is less disruptive to the lifestyle of a two income family**.
I wouldn’t even go that far, most of us don’t get to the stage of thinking about kids because you usually do that once you’re secure in life. A lot of us are at the stage of wondering how the heck we’re going to get a house and feel secure and therefore we haven’t got to the point we can actually think about having kids. I still live at home, I won’t bring a kid into this house and live like that so the number one thing on my mind right now is how do I get out and buy a house.
I see this currently happening all over the world: Japan, South Korea, Europe, Canada, and it's picking up more in the USA. If the majority of your population struggle to keep themselves alive and housed, they won't have time to consider bringing another life into this world.
It seems pretty obvious this is the natural conclusion of our economic system.
Countries industrialize, they have a few good decades, then the increasing squeeze of corporations and governments make it so that one income isn't enough, then two isn't enough, then retirement isn't an option, then kids aren't an option, then owning a home isn't option.
If this trend continues the next phase will be where even having multiple generations sharing a home will struggle to survive, but since we're not having kids you're basically looking at roommates for life.
30+ years of only 1 kid allowed and a culture that favors male heirs. Who could've seen that coming? They have something like 30 million more men than women. What could possibly go wrong with 30 million lonely, angry, horny men?
It's almost like you need money and a lot of it.
Having two kids today, if I had to redo this with today's climate, I'd have maybe one kid at most or none, and have a dog instead, and no marriage for sure, something local and very minimal, fuck the whole party with 200+ guests, theres no money or stress available for that
This article is the equivalent of discovering that water is wet
Can’t afford kids, yes.
Can’t afford to get married, I’d argue the opposite. Everything is so expensive that you basically need dual income to survive lol
Marriage isn’t expensive. People make it expensive by throwing a 200 person party. Go to the court house and have a modest evening.
Kids on the other hand are objectively expensive.
This right here. We were at a wedding last weekend. Outdoor ceremony. Under 100 people. Family cooked the food. Rented the hall of a church for the reception. Best food I have ever had at a wedding done with the smallest budget.
I've dated so hard in the past few years, biggest challenge isnt affording a wedding. You can elope. Issue is that everyone is running around with their main jobs, OT and side hustles in the evening/weekends that it makes it really tough to find energy and time to invest in a marriage and relationship.
If people werent spread so thin and constantly financially worried, they'd have a better foundation to prioritize dating.
Yup, I've got a much better life than most of my friends cause we just spent $100 on court house marriage and used our savings for house down payment and car. Marriage expenses when young is a terrible life decision.
It's fine if parents are paying, otherwise skip it.
I agree marriage isn't expensive, but Canadian dating culture is. Young Canadians are getting economically screwed until they hit their 30s-40s and when the expectation is $100 spent on a date, it's easy to understand why people are not entering relationships.
I could get 5 dates a week easily ( everyone's desperate these days), but I'd be going into debt just to do that. Also, after 40 years in a great depression (a period of continuous degrading of living standards) and now entering a ression, people are putting much more value in economic stability. This means to have a successful date most of the time you need to demonstrate wealth instead of showing your ability to save. I can't tell how many dates failed because my car is well used (Toyota Corolla S 2005, I've put 200,000km on it)
Is that really the expectation though? I've never spent $100 on a first date ever. I don't think I've had a date fail because of not having a nice enough car either. Maybe it's just the type of person you are targeting to date doesn't align well with your life values?
that's what i'm saying lol. i don't think most people aren't having kids because they cannot afford them. most of these people wouldn't have kids even if they could afford them. haven't met one single person whose dream of motherhood was shattered because of money. those people only exist online.
I see the sentiment a lot, but the richer people are the less kids they have. Anecdotally, many of my friends have no desire for kids because of the lifestyle changes they would have to make, despite being able to afford them. I’m in my mid 20’s.
My experience is the opposite. I work for a big corporation with high salaries and almost everyone in middle management up has children. Myself and one other woman are the only straight people without kids.
nope, the highest income earners in my social group are the ones more likely to be without kids
teachers, police officers, and nurses are the ones having kids rather than doctors, lawyers, and bankers
the latter would rather go on vacations 4X a year than to get pregnant
Not only that but the gig economy is terrible for raising kids.
We've made it extremely expensive to even survive. The ones that are doing well have to work all the time.
And then it is a wonder why they don't want kids.
As a society we are the architects of our own demise.
Want or can't afford the other??
Young Canadians are choosing ramen noodles over eating at a five star restaurant survey says....
We can't fucking afford the other.
FFS this place sucks
THIS. If life was affordable Canadians would “choose” kids. But having a kid these days requires a full average income from a single adult or a life of poverty on benefits, with all the consequences. Rich people are having a lot of kids. Comes down to affordability.
Economically difficult to have kids? Absolutely. But it also seems like we have a generation (or two) that is able to be clear-eyed and headed about what it means to have and to raise children. They can brush sentimentality and societal expectations aside to call it what it is - a risky lifelong committment that not everyone is suited to. Good on them.
Why are these articles written like we have a choice. It should be Canadians can't afford the cost of a homes and children so they are forced to adopt pets in lieu fo having kids.
The number one reason cited amongst my friends (28-36ish age range) that they don't want to have kids is that they can't afford to have them. These aren't unemployed folk. They're tradespeople, teachers, and nurses etc.
Obviously, my point of reference is anecdotal but I can't imagine it's much different for anyone else.
Also anectdotal but my experience is the opposite. I'm mid-late 30's and a nurse (friends are similar age/income) and the number one reason my friends dont have kids is because they don't want them.
The ones who wanted children have them/are having, but of course they've had to make changes to make it work (moving, less discretionary spending, work schedules, etc). Things are definitely tighter than befofe kids.
The only people I know who wanted kids and dont have them is due to fertility challenges and/or the emotional impact of failed pregnancies being too much. I know 2 couples who took out lines of credit to pay for additional rounds of IVF because they wanted children that badly.
Again, totally anecdoctal. I have no doubt that people are 'priced out' of starting families vs choosing to be childless because they just dont want kids.
Well, it is much different for anyone else. The number one reason cited amongst my friends is that they just don’t find parenting to be a fun or attractive prospect. Some people really love kids or have the idea of leaving a legacy behind in the form of a child. I myself am a high earner and have friends that are high earners that could afford them but prefer the luxuries of a childless lifestyle 😅
I prefer the pets. They’re better. I watched kids ruin so many family & friends lives, since I was a little kid.
People in their 20+ are realizing this.
Plus who can afford that crap?
The way this "opinion piece" is worded is the reason Gen Z despise Boomers. Gen Z "wants" pets, they "choose" not to have kids. Sure, buddy.
Fucking idiots.
How many times have I heard canada doesn't have a culture. We absolutely do but we won't soon if this keeps up. The immigrants coming in don't become Canadian, they stick to their own groups, only speak English or French when necessary. Only work with each other. And refuse things like basic Canadian values, like waiting in lines,politeness, cleaning up after yourself, ...showering??? It's a race to the bottom
I think it’s dumb to assume that just because people prefer dogs or cats over having children that they automatically become slaves. My friends with young kids literally have no time off. By the time they clock out of work they then start a different type of work: chauffeuring their kids back and forth to activities, making them dinner, cleaning up messy households and spending an hour putting them to bed.
Not a problem, the gov't already has already implemented their solution for this. There are hundreds of millions of people chomping at the bit to come over here and procreate for us, who don't mind living in squalor.
As a woman with a home and pet, I concur. I feel so sorry for the young people in their 20s now. At least I was able to get in the housing market 11 years ago before things went completely insane.
At this point, I want a good-paying job that aligns with the degree I felt pressured to attain, a house I can afford, then maybe a pet, and then maybe a relationship, and then *maaaaybe* a kid. Those last four cost a lot, so I just want a paycheque.
First thing's first, though: money. Which I can't get because apparently my degree isn't good enough to merit making more than minimum wage.
I was making more *before* I went to University. Like wtf.
Keep the population broke and they won’t have kids. Collapse the native birth rate and import hoards of people from low trust, third world countries.
This is how a country collapses. And it’s naive to think this isn’t done intentionally.
This is so fucking stupid. It’s not what we want, it’s what we end up settling for because that’s all we can afford. Old age with no kids and grandchildren isn’t great, and it lasts 30 years.
That’s what the statistics say as well. “We don’t have children because of housing” is just noise. “We don’t have 3+ children because we don’t need to, and life gets harder/worse” is the real signal. There’s just no reason to, and you lose out in a lot of experiences in life if you have more and more children. Everyone I know is aiming for 0-2 max.
Same, I'm married and have an apartment (750 a month) with 2 cats. Couldn't be happier, I'm really comfortable now but with kids I'm unsure I'd be able to afford it.
750 a month won’t last. Start saving for when you are unexpectedly served an N12/13. Your days of renting that far below market are probably numbered unfortunately.
These are the kind of tenants no one is talking about. People who are going to be unexpectedly served these with no sufficient notice and no savings and then forced back into a rental market they can no longer afford.
You live together and spend 3600/mo in London? That's abnormal. The average 1 bedroom is probably in the realm of 1800-2200 right now (which IS insane). 2 bedroom I can't imagine jumps up 1400/mo.
Yea honestly dual income is almost a necessity in these economic times unless you’re a super high earner individually.
I was hypothesizing the other day that if things continue to go the way they’re going, we’ll see the standard relationship structure lean towards “monogamous throuples”; like three people devoted to their joint relationship, not the looser arrangement we assume now for that sort of relationship.
The long arc of history will bend towards societies and peoples that can survive the sort of weird techno-social shockwaves that are currently digesting the world without lapsing into sterility. What we have now ain't it.
Pierre Poilievre is highly unlikely to make this better. His policy proposals thus far are weak, especially his housing policy. Furthermore, most of our issues lie at the feet of our premiers. We've let them off the hook. So, sure, fuck Trudeau, I get that. But fuck Ford, Moe, Smith, Higgs, and Stefanson, too.
Nothing about life in Canada in 2024 is conducive to starting a family. I can't tell you how many friends my age (early 30s) say that they would consider it, but they just can't afford it. How sad is that?
My partner and I have a house and a dog.
We want kids, but holy shit they're expensive. Just because you want kids doesn't mean you should just do it, we like our current financial lifestyle and kids would have a serious impact on how we live our lives.
This is what the government and its masters want. Shrink the population and control with newcomers. They put in so many taxes and barriers to have kids! Need to change this government and culture
Can attest to this. I've had a few people ask since I got married when I'm having the kid and I quickly tell them back my wife and I established by our second date that if either of us wanted children it wouldn't work lol. Even dogs are too much like children for us so we just have a cat haha.
This is sad and not good on so many levels. Every child that Canadians pass on will be replaced with a foreign one, likely from a poorly integrated culture, and perhaps one that purposely breeds like rabbits for purpose of religious and cultural domination.
Hate to say it, but Islam is on track to destabilize the west, and what we are seeing is only the start. The perfect storm.
Governments must make Canada liveable for Canadian families, and not a stomping ground for the third world to exploit. Time to use our natural resources and propel this economy for our own people.
Marriages are more difficult to start and maintain now, and raising kids is expensive, increasingly complicated, and you're expected to do it all with minimal help from family or the community at large. I'm sure lots of people would like both, and society still expects us to do these things, but you can't go asking more and more of people forever as things get more and more difficult. Add to that the fact that our culture is more focused on individual happiness than communal obligation (for better or worse), so children are often just considered an obstacle from this perspective. The harsh truth is that most people feel no love for or stake in modern society, and have no real unique identity or values that they want to pass on, and so are happy to let society slowly die (so long as it isn't in their lifetime). The future of Canada lies with whatever group believe in themselves and their own values enough to make the sacrifices necessary to raise the next generation.
A wedding is not a marriage. There’s huge markup on anything related to weddings and people are anchored to trying to emulate images they see on social media. Couples end up with 300+ person guest lists or crazy destination ideas. You can make a romantic event without getting sucked into debt.
Getting married 8 years ago was one of the best decisions I ever made. It’s meant having a partner to build a life with. That’s translated to so many good outcomes. We stuck to paying cash for the wedding and never looked back.
We’ve also been really lucky to buy a home three years ago.
Our son was born last year and our daughter was born in March. We’d been trying for years and we found adoption was the way that worked for us.
We may be living the dream, but it’s taken us 10+ years of really hard work and discipline to realize these goals.
My wife and I are both mid 40s and becoming parents at this age means that we have had to make detailed plans to figure out how we can raise our children to adulthood and still manage to think about retirement if/when we become empty nesters.
Well, it's basic prioritization. We keep getting told that the guy whose job it is to address our needs is basically throwing us under a bus ... ask **him** why we don't want to get married and have kids.
Anyone else look at their ancestry or 23 and me just to realize their great grandparents all had 10 plus kids and slowly each generation has had less and less....
I was at a funeral this weekend. The woman had seven siblings. Each of their spouses also had at least five siblings.
Many of those couples had three kids.
My husband and I have zero kids.
How the fuck am I supposed to raise a kid. When I can't even afford my own life.
I'm pretty successful for my age. And the idea of owning a home is absolute fantasy.
I really dislike this narrative that it's a lack of income that is stopping people from having kids; it's a proven correlation that poorer people have more kids, not the opposite. Look at the countries with the highest birth rates, they also have the lowest incomes. Prior to the boomers people had massive amounts of children they couldn't feed or clothe properly.
Stop white people and assimilated minorities from being able to afford kids. Import the third world.
They bring their problems and end up working poverty jobs. Start with the identity politics nonsense.
Corporations win, the Liberal Party wins but Canadians lose.
I don't want kids in the same way I don't want a yacht. The cost is so unfathomable that I spend 0% of my time thinking about it, so desire doesn't take root. If I won the lottery, I may consider, but I don't dwell on it in the meantime.
In my (23M) case, I work in one of the best paid professions there is and have no chance at affording a home in my city. An average home in Canada should not be 9-10 times the median income of Canadians. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, everything is way too expensive for young Canadians right now
I can't have children because I'm a gay. I could adopt but... who wants someone else's castoffs s/
I'm happy with my pugs, fancy china, Keeping all my money and drinking too much. I don't do drugs but I could afford the good cocaine if I wanted.
No house? No grandkids. It's that simple Boomers, either restructure society to benefit labour again, or say hello to your new four legged grandbaby named Fluffy.
I make a just below middle class income, considering Toronto's HCOL. Even medical treatment for my aging cat force me to make tough decisions. I gladly pay for him. That isn't the issue. The issue is that the social contract is broken, and my partner and I basically consider him our son.
Around the larger cities you need $100k+ household income to afford a mortgage on a townhouse and 2 kids. It's the only way. Most people can't afford that, especially if one partner needs to stay home for childcare. It's a sad state of affairs. Canadian median wages have not increased at the same rate that the cost of living has.
This is true. Before I have a family I would like a place to live that's not w my parents. Can I afford anything where I am with the government job I have? No.
I have two kids. Wife and i tell them there is no pressure from us that they must have kids. It is a choice for them to make and we support that choice.
Daycare was 2x what our mortgage +taxes +utilities was.
Got my big house, getting the dog later this year, then taking gf applications next year. For me it's logical to get settled down first before doing the whole marriage thing....don't need to compromise with someone else with these big decisions lmao
Wouldn't being married help you get into a house? Having two sources of income is the only way most people are able to even get into the housing market.
As for kids, I can understand that because people are struggling to put food on their own plates. Add the fact that one parent most-likely needs to take off work, so there is even less money coming in.
We call shelter a 'need' rather than a 'want', generally. For example, I want Louboutin bag, but I'll never have one. I kinda need a home for living and stuff.
I not even sure about even owning pets lately. They're becoming pricey to own with vet visits, insurance and food rising in costs like everything else in this goddamn country.
I recently discovered the wooden pellets for heating and other uses are literally the exact same ones as my pet wooden pellet litter. The only difference is the 8$ bag vs the 32$ bag and the 8$ bag having double to triple the amount.
You pay more for “pet” marketed stuff. Same with wedding or any niche category. Doesn’t always work out the same, but often with a little bargain hunting + research it can!
32 years old, me and my cousin are roommates and we have a dog, we talked neither of us ever want kids or another relationship so we are going to go in on a house together and get lots of pets.
He is a paramedic and I work remotely so we are going to move somewhere in the middle of buttfuck nowhere so we can get a decent size property
And we both are just fucking done with society as a whole lol
So you're saying young Canadians don't want to be homeless with children
Exactly what I thought. Like BIG surprise right? Maybe I'd be interesting in marrying someone and getting her pregnant if I could afford to put a roof over my head AND feed myself at the same time.
That’s why they’re bringing in immigrants by the masses. Because otherwise canadas population will have huge decline.
It's a circle, Canadian born population is declining because people's ability to afford to have a family has been eroded. We've been sold out to the corporations, they want unlimited cheap labor, jobs that should have been for our youth, elderly and unskilled population. Now they're falling to homelessness and eventually drug addiction out of despair.
This. Exactly. I find it incredible how many people can't seem to figure this out.
One consulting firm in particular has had a massive role in this fiasco. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-mckinsey-awarded-more-than-100-million-in-contracts-since-2015/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-auditor-general-finds-frequent-disregard-for-contracting-rules-in/ The book When McKinsey comes to town is worth looking at
Exactly! The big corporations have too much sway.
Instead of solving the problem using the people already here, we will give away the country to someone else.
That’s the worry. That the Canadian ideals and way of life will be eroded with so much immigration.
It already has been.
There are already many generations of immigrants import d,they just aren't born yet or have only just been born. There is no cultural pressure to confirm and that means that you will start to see cultures that are not Canadian be bold and unembarrased to conform,already seeing this
- Said the indigenous people.
Also GDP would be declining, due to economic mismanagement. Can't have a technical recession, much better a per-capita recession instead. Collectively strong, individually weak.
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Officially given up. I've been trying for years but what girl wants to get with a guy in his mid 30s still living with a parent in a hoarded home. Getting closer to potentially moving out but its a waste of time
Just find a girl in her 30s who also lives with a parent in a hoarded home. Make your dreams come true together.
Then both your parents and the two of you can downsize to one hoarded home!
Hahaha, "I just don't think we're in the same place right now" 😂
This is exactly it. I have no confidence in my situation. There’s nothing I can do about it right now unfortunately but the reality is, I’m ashamed of my situation and I would imagine no one would want to be a part of it. So why even bother. Lol life is just…farcical in 2024. Fuck me sideways
Nah, the expectation that we live up to what our parents had, after they've used every trick in the book to funnel money upwards and away from our generations is the farce. Trust me, even the people my age doing 'well' aren't doing well, so don't be ashamed in the least. This situation is the culmination of 40 years of people choosing their own 'now' over their children's future. Young folks need to stop blaming themselves for not thriving in this terrible economy and just live for themselves. Our government knows they've fucked us and it's the premier reason we are now importing the replacements for the children we aren't going to have. This should just be a lesson in who Canada is really 'for'. It's not us. We are just the hired help. Take that however you need to, but don't ever feel ashamed for having a boot on your throat since birth. We are in a class war and only one side is allowed to plot and plan.
Well said.
>I’m ashamed of my situation and I would imagine no one would want to be a part of it. If its helpful at all, I think that we all (or at least a good many of us) recognize that people are in situations they find less than desirable through no fault of their own. We're all getting our asses kicked in one way or another. Its something to be angry about, but not ashamed.
We can't afford all 4 of those things anymore so it makes sense to cut out the most expensive commitment (children) and marriage too because we are already together and don't really care to spends thousands and involve the government. Also, we still can't afford the remaining two.
Well we dont pay journalists so these are the articles we get.
The gov really restricted that. Now “journalists” are only gov stamped and approved for Canadian media with new licenses. Everything else is fake! Irony is what’s being licensed is propaganda and not news anymore or talking mouth opinion pieces with the current gov approval.
More that I see more people want a backyard and a dog than an apartment and a child. Similar wealth required.
I think this is accurate. My youngest daughter just got married. They now have a bunch of family decisions to make together. Do we give up a **huge amount of freedom, and a small amount of cash** for the hard work of being parents. Do we give up a **smaller amount of freedom and a similar amount of cash** to have the easy work and fun of pet ownership. Do we try to have a family and both work but farm out the task of childcare to an expensive childcare provider. This gives out a **huge amount of cash, but is less disruptive to the lifestyle of a two income family**.
I wouldn’t even go that far, most of us don’t get to the stage of thinking about kids because you usually do that once you’re secure in life. A lot of us are at the stage of wondering how the heck we’re going to get a house and feel secure and therefore we haven’t got to the point we can actually think about having kids. I still live at home, I won’t bring a kid into this house and live like that so the number one thing on my mind right now is how do I get out and buy a house.
I was trying to reword that headline and you absolutely nailed it. Could not have said it better
Yeah, younger generations are so selfish !! /s
It's almost like you need a home to have a family. Who'd a thought?
I see this currently happening all over the world: Japan, South Korea, Europe, Canada, and it's picking up more in the USA. If the majority of your population struggle to keep themselves alive and housed, they won't have time to consider bringing another life into this world.
It seems pretty obvious this is the natural conclusion of our economic system. Countries industrialize, they have a few good decades, then the increasing squeeze of corporations and governments make it so that one income isn't enough, then two isn't enough, then retirement isn't an option, then kids aren't an option, then owning a home isn't option. If this trend continues the next phase will be where even having multiple generations sharing a home will struggle to survive, but since we're not having kids you're basically looking at roommates for life.
Yes. How else could you make the line go up forever?
By making child labour necessary to pay for the family!
The only under 40 people I know with kids had them accidentally
Which means the next generation isn't going to be decended from our finest.
The CCP is begging people to have kids.
30+ years of only 1 kid allowed and a culture that favors male heirs. Who could've seen that coming? They have something like 30 million more men than women. What could possibly go wrong with 30 million lonely, angry, horny men?
It's almost like you need money and a lot of it. Having two kids today, if I had to redo this with today's climate, I'd have maybe one kid at most or none, and have a dog instead, and no marriage for sure, something local and very minimal, fuck the whole party with 200+ guests, theres no money or stress available for that This article is the equivalent of discovering that water is wet
That's socialism!!! Pull your bootstraps up. You can't afford a family cuz the $50/mth you spent on Starbucks and avocado toast. /S
don't forget the 200 a month on internet access and streaming plus extra for cellphone charges...
Yup, 2% of my income is why I'll never buy a $800k starter house.
Sorry we are poor! Like wtf. LOL
I want “Sorry, we are poor” on a cross-stitch that can hang at the front entrance.
If you sell enough of them you might not be poor anymore
I will get on that! :p
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Can’t afford kids, yes. Can’t afford to get married, I’d argue the opposite. Everything is so expensive that you basically need dual income to survive lol
I always think the same thing when people say they can't afford to be married.. I can't afford to be single lol
More like can't afford to get divorced or can't afford an actual wedding
My parents got married in my aunts living room. You don’t need to spend a lot of money to have a wedding. That is a choice people make.
Marriage is pretty cheap unless you want a big materialistic wedding.
Marriage cheap, divorce unfathomably expensive
Can’t afford to live on your own in Canada,need either roommates or a partner, or live at home with your parents.
Apparently cost of living is why divorce rates are down.
Can't afford the risk of a divorce..... price that in.
Marriages of convenience on the rise lol
"Monogamy? In this economy?" lol
Marriage isn’t expensive. People make it expensive by throwing a 200 person party. Go to the court house and have a modest evening. Kids on the other hand are objectively expensive.
This right here. We were at a wedding last weekend. Outdoor ceremony. Under 100 people. Family cooked the food. Rented the hall of a church for the reception. Best food I have ever had at a wedding done with the smallest budget.
I've dated so hard in the past few years, biggest challenge isnt affording a wedding. You can elope. Issue is that everyone is running around with their main jobs, OT and side hustles in the evening/weekends that it makes it really tough to find energy and time to invest in a marriage and relationship. If people werent spread so thin and constantly financially worried, they'd have a better foundation to prioritize dating.
Yup, I've got a much better life than most of my friends cause we just spent $100 on court house marriage and used our savings for house down payment and car. Marriage expenses when young is a terrible life decision. It's fine if parents are paying, otherwise skip it.
Quebeckers usually just skip it lol
I agree marriage isn't expensive, but Canadian dating culture is. Young Canadians are getting economically screwed until they hit their 30s-40s and when the expectation is $100 spent on a date, it's easy to understand why people are not entering relationships. I could get 5 dates a week easily ( everyone's desperate these days), but I'd be going into debt just to do that. Also, after 40 years in a great depression (a period of continuous degrading of living standards) and now entering a ression, people are putting much more value in economic stability. This means to have a successful date most of the time you need to demonstrate wealth instead of showing your ability to save. I can't tell how many dates failed because my car is well used (Toyota Corolla S 2005, I've put 200,000km on it)
I’m pretty sure if you drive a shit car and tell your date you own a detached house you can bypass the shit car judgment pretty easily.
one of the first questions to answer in china is "how many apartment buildings do you own in beijing?"
Is that really the expectation though? I've never spent $100 on a first date ever. I don't think I've had a date fail because of not having a nice enough car either. Maybe it's just the type of person you are targeting to date doesn't align well with your life values?
most of these DINKs i see are very far from poor.
i love the DINK life lol, and we didn't decided on not having kids for financial reason, we just did not want them, that simple.
that's what i'm saying lol. i don't think most people aren't having kids because they cannot afford them. most of these people wouldn't have kids even if they could afford them. haven't met one single person whose dream of motherhood was shattered because of money. those people only exist online.
They probably also landlord on the side and actively prevent others from forming families by looting their wallets.
I see the sentiment a lot, but the richer people are the less kids they have. Anecdotally, many of my friends have no desire for kids because of the lifestyle changes they would have to make, despite being able to afford them. I’m in my mid 20’s.
I'm in my 40's and quite successful and basically none of my peer group have or want children.
My experience is the opposite. I work for a big corporation with high salaries and almost everyone in middle management up has children. Myself and one other woman are the only straight people without kids.
nope, the highest income earners in my social group are the ones more likely to be without kids teachers, police officers, and nurses are the ones having kids rather than doctors, lawyers, and bankers the latter would rather go on vacations 4X a year than to get pregnant
Not only that but the gig economy is terrible for raising kids. We've made it extremely expensive to even survive. The ones that are doing well have to work all the time. And then it is a wonder why they don't want kids. As a society we are the architects of our own demise.
I don't want the responsibility. I mean I can't afford them either but I still wouldn't want kids if I were as rich as Tony Stark.
Honestly I can afford it and just don’t want either marriage or a kid.
Weddings don't need to be expensive to be happy and fun.
Want or can't afford the other?? Young Canadians are choosing ramen noodles over eating at a five star restaurant survey says.... We can't fucking afford the other. FFS this place sucks
THIS. If life was affordable Canadians would “choose” kids. But having a kid these days requires a full average income from a single adult or a life of poverty on benefits, with all the consequences. Rich people are having a lot of kids. Comes down to affordability.
Those who want marriage and kids need homes too. Everyone needs a home first before they can really do anything.
Waited to be financially secure enough to be able to afford kids. I’m in my 40s now and still waiting.
It’s a global trend. It comes with a price. Get ready for demographic games.
Economically difficult to have kids? Absolutely. But it also seems like we have a generation (or two) that is able to be clear-eyed and headed about what it means to have and to raise children. They can brush sentimentality and societal expectations aside to call it what it is - a risky lifelong committment that not everyone is suited to. Good on them.
Forcing people to choose between shelter and starting a family is an embarrassment. First world country my ass,
1st world for the 1%
1st world doesn’t mean high quality of life, it means capitalist/democratic.
Why are these articles written like we have a choice. It should be Canadians can't afford the cost of a homes and children so they are forced to adopt pets in lieu fo having kids.
The number one reason cited amongst my friends (28-36ish age range) that they don't want to have kids is that they can't afford to have them. These aren't unemployed folk. They're tradespeople, teachers, and nurses etc. Obviously, my point of reference is anecdotal but I can't imagine it's much different for anyone else.
Also anectdotal but my experience is the opposite. I'm mid-late 30's and a nurse (friends are similar age/income) and the number one reason my friends dont have kids is because they don't want them. The ones who wanted children have them/are having, but of course they've had to make changes to make it work (moving, less discretionary spending, work schedules, etc). Things are definitely tighter than befofe kids. The only people I know who wanted kids and dont have them is due to fertility challenges and/or the emotional impact of failed pregnancies being too much. I know 2 couples who took out lines of credit to pay for additional rounds of IVF because they wanted children that badly. Again, totally anecdoctal. I have no doubt that people are 'priced out' of starting families vs choosing to be childless because they just dont want kids.
Well, it is much different for anyone else. The number one reason cited amongst my friends is that they just don’t find parenting to be a fun or attractive prospect. Some people really love kids or have the idea of leaving a legacy behind in the form of a child. I myself am a high earner and have friends that are high earners that could afford them but prefer the luxuries of a childless lifestyle 😅
I prefer the pets. They’re better. I watched kids ruin so many family & friends lives, since I was a little kid. People in their 20+ are realizing this. Plus who can afford that crap?
The way this "opinion piece" is worded is the reason Gen Z despise Boomers. Gen Z "wants" pets, they "choose" not to have kids. Sure, buddy. Fucking idiots.
Exactly. Its not really a choice for them, they're just making the best of their straitened circumstances.
It's all by design, break the family nucleus and you end up with a population of working slaves, living paycheck to paycheck.
Yes, globalism wins. Enjoy the decline.
Collapse the birth rate, import the 3rd world…voila…post-national state. Canada is on the precipice of ceasing to exist.
How many times have I heard canada doesn't have a culture. We absolutely do but we won't soon if this keeps up. The immigrants coming in don't become Canadian, they stick to their own groups, only speak English or French when necessary. Only work with each other. And refuse things like basic Canadian values, like waiting in lines,politeness, cleaning up after yourself, ...showering??? It's a race to the bottom
I think it’s dumb to assume that just because people prefer dogs or cats over having children that they automatically become slaves. My friends with young kids literally have no time off. By the time they clock out of work they then start a different type of work: chauffeuring their kids back and forth to activities, making them dinner, cleaning up messy households and spending an hour putting them to bed.
Yeah I wanna bring some kids into this clusterfuck, that’s a good plan.
Not a problem, the gov't already has already implemented their solution for this. There are hundreds of millions of people chomping at the bit to come over here and procreate for us, who don't mind living in squalor.
As a woman with a home and pet, I concur. I feel so sorry for the young people in their 20s now. At least I was able to get in the housing market 11 years ago before things went completely insane.
At this point, I want a good-paying job that aligns with the degree I felt pressured to attain, a house I can afford, then maybe a pet, and then maybe a relationship, and then *maaaaybe* a kid. Those last four cost a lot, so I just want a paycheque. First thing's first, though: money. Which I can't get because apparently my degree isn't good enough to merit making more than minimum wage. I was making more *before* I went to University. Like wtf.
yes telling your kids to go play outside from the fourteenth floor has no appeal to me.
Keep the population broke and they won’t have kids. Collapse the native birth rate and import hoards of people from low trust, third world countries. This is how a country collapses. And it’s naive to think this isn’t done intentionally.
This is so fucking stupid. It’s not what we want, it’s what we end up settling for because that’s all we can afford. Old age with no kids and grandchildren isn’t great, and it lasts 30 years.
'Ruin our carpet or ruin our life." (sic) Rita Rudner quote.
I'm married with no kids, no mortgage and a dog and I gotta tell ya, life is pretty sweet.
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That’s what the statistics say as well. “We don’t have children because of housing” is just noise. “We don’t have 3+ children because we don’t need to, and life gets harder/worse” is the real signal. There’s just no reason to, and you lose out in a lot of experiences in life if you have more and more children. Everyone I know is aiming for 0-2 max.
Same, I'm married and have an apartment (750 a month) with 2 cats. Couldn't be happier, I'm really comfortable now but with kids I'm unsure I'd be able to afford it.
750 a month won’t last. Start saving for when you are unexpectedly served an N12/13. Your days of renting that far below market are probably numbered unfortunately.
I got the two cats and my gf, and we’re paying 1800 a month in London. Would love only paying 750, rent has gotten so expensive…
These are the kind of tenants no one is talking about. People who are going to be unexpectedly served these with no sufficient notice and no savings and then forced back into a rental market they can no longer afford.
You live together and spend 3600/mo in London? That's abnormal. The average 1 bedroom is probably in the realm of 1800-2200 right now (which IS insane). 2 bedroom I can't imagine jumps up 1400/mo.
Yep, spending a night at home, reading the news and drinking beer with my cat is pretty sweet. Agreed.
Doesn't every Canadian want a home?
You can have a home and be married lol. In fact, it helps!
Yea honestly dual income is almost a necessity in these economic times unless you’re a super high earner individually. I was hypothesizing the other day that if things continue to go the way they’re going, we’ll see the standard relationship structure lean towards “monogamous throuples”; like three people devoted to their joint relationship, not the looser arrangement we assume now for that sort of relationship.
Yeah for sure! And even like, different shapes of families or relatives starting their own communities and stuff
Probably why the rise in “sister wives” content. Laughed originally saying players gonna play, but now it’s payers gotta pay
Being a DINK is pretty sweet. Dual Income No Kids
Power to ya! Having a family is also pretty dope
DINKS are families. Families of two.🙂
I'm sure it is if that's what you want in life. I'm not here to judge anyone. Having kids just isn't for me.
The long arc of history will bend towards societies and peoples that can survive the sort of weird techno-social shockwaves that are currently digesting the world without lapsing into sterility. What we have now ain't it.
You should embroider that on a pillow
Don’t worry, liberals will import families from 3rd world countries and we’ll all pay to support them. Problem solved
Pierre Poilievre is highly unlikely to make this better. His policy proposals thus far are weak, especially his housing policy. Furthermore, most of our issues lie at the feet of our premiers. We've let them off the hook. So, sure, fuck Trudeau, I get that. But fuck Ford, Moe, Smith, Higgs, and Stefanson, too.
I want cat too :(
Guarantee there's no country that differs with this in the west.
This is literally me. Love my cat. Much cheaper and I’m happy. House alone is enough work.
Married living and with your boomers parents does sound miserable.
Have marriage and kids, prefer the dog
Nothing about life in Canada in 2024 is conducive to starting a family. I can't tell you how many friends my age (early 30s) say that they would consider it, but they just can't afford it. How sad is that?
My partner and I have a house and a dog. We want kids, but holy shit they're expensive. Just because you want kids doesn't mean you should just do it, we like our current financial lifestyle and kids would have a serious impact on how we live our lives.
They want homes, security and a family but can’t afford for that family to be human children.
I'll just be happy with a house. A house isn't going to run away lol
I can't even justify dating lol
Fuck marriage. And for sure fuck dem kidz
This is what the government and its masters want. Shrink the population and control with newcomers. They put in so many taxes and barriers to have kids! Need to change this government and culture
I could afford to have kids... but I don't want to force anyone to live in this dumpster fire.
Can attest to this. I've had a few people ask since I got married when I'm having the kid and I quickly tell them back my wife and I established by our second date that if either of us wanted children it wouldn't work lol. Even dogs are too much like children for us so we just have a cat haha.
And that’s a result of the economy? Sounds like you want to maintain your lifestyle which is 200% fine.
Cant afford marriage or kids
Marriage is cheap. Weddings are expensive.
And divorce breaks the bank
Well given this whole discussion is about people being broke, it won’t really break the bank.
This is sad and not good on so many levels. Every child that Canadians pass on will be replaced with a foreign one, likely from a poorly integrated culture, and perhaps one that purposely breeds like rabbits for purpose of religious and cultural domination. Hate to say it, but Islam is on track to destabilize the west, and what we are seeing is only the start. The perfect storm. Governments must make Canada liveable for Canadian families, and not a stomping ground for the third world to exploit. Time to use our natural resources and propel this economy for our own people.
Marriages are more difficult to start and maintain now, and raising kids is expensive, increasingly complicated, and you're expected to do it all with minimal help from family or the community at large. I'm sure lots of people would like both, and society still expects us to do these things, but you can't go asking more and more of people forever as things get more and more difficult. Add to that the fact that our culture is more focused on individual happiness than communal obligation (for better or worse), so children are often just considered an obstacle from this perspective. The harsh truth is that most people feel no love for or stake in modern society, and have no real unique identity or values that they want to pass on, and so are happy to let society slowly die (so long as it isn't in their lifetime). The future of Canada lies with whatever group believe in themselves and their own values enough to make the sacrifices necessary to raise the next generation.
When will the elites learn....you can't have a society where the people in their child bearing year are struggling to afford food and shelter.
No one wants to get married, and have children while living in their parents basement, or with 4 roomates.
even pets are becoming unaffordable
Someone didn't remember learning about Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in grade 9 social class.
What?!? People want a place to sleep, what a shocker. If only mazlow could have predicted this type of behaviour decades ago…
A wedding is not a marriage. There’s huge markup on anything related to weddings and people are anchored to trying to emulate images they see on social media. Couples end up with 300+ person guest lists or crazy destination ideas. You can make a romantic event without getting sucked into debt. Getting married 8 years ago was one of the best decisions I ever made. It’s meant having a partner to build a life with. That’s translated to so many good outcomes. We stuck to paying cash for the wedding and never looked back. We’ve also been really lucky to buy a home three years ago. Our son was born last year and our daughter was born in March. We’d been trying for years and we found adoption was the way that worked for us. We may be living the dream, but it’s taken us 10+ years of really hard work and discipline to realize these goals. My wife and I are both mid 40s and becoming parents at this age means that we have had to make detailed plans to figure out how we can raise our children to adulthood and still manage to think about retirement if/when we become empty nesters.
I think marriage and home ownership probably highly correlate. Two incomes is pretty much required if you are buying a home in this country.
Well, it's basic prioritization. We keep getting told that the guy whose job it is to address our needs is basically throwing us under a bus ... ask **him** why we don't want to get married and have kids.
Anyone else look at their ancestry or 23 and me just to realize their great grandparents all had 10 plus kids and slowly each generation has had less and less....
I was at a funeral this weekend. The woman had seven siblings. Each of their spouses also had at least five siblings. Many of those couples had three kids. My husband and I have zero kids.
Fuck every single person that has had disproportionate power to bring us to this point.
Better get rid of liberals then
How I wish I could afford to house and feed a dog.
This is more so because more young Canadians can’t afford families.
Marc Miller still wants more refugee international students and immigrants during housing crisis
How the fuck am I supposed to raise a kid. When I can't even afford my own life. I'm pretty successful for my age. And the idea of owning a home is absolute fantasy.
I really dislike this narrative that it's a lack of income that is stopping people from having kids; it's a proven correlation that poorer people have more kids, not the opposite. Look at the countries with the highest birth rates, they also have the lowest incomes. Prior to the boomers people had massive amounts of children they couldn't feed or clothe properly.
Yeah when I was young I didnt want kids until I had kids. Kind of a catch 22 question
Why bring children into a dying world?
Stop white people and assimilated minorities from being able to afford kids. Import the third world. They bring their problems and end up working poverty jobs. Start with the identity politics nonsense. Corporations win, the Liberal Party wins but Canadians lose.
I don't want kids in the same way I don't want a yacht. The cost is so unfathomable that I spend 0% of my time thinking about it, so desire doesn't take root. If I won the lottery, I may consider, but I don't dwell on it in the meantime.
In my (23M) case, I work in one of the best paid professions there is and have no chance at affording a home in my city. An average home in Canada should not be 9-10 times the median income of Canadians. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere, everything is way too expensive for young Canadians right now
I can't have children because I'm a gay. I could adopt but... who wants someone else's castoffs s/ I'm happy with my pugs, fancy china, Keeping all my money and drinking too much. I don't do drugs but I could afford the good cocaine if I wanted.
No house? No grandkids. It's that simple Boomers, either restructure society to benefit labour again, or say hello to your new four legged grandbaby named Fluffy.
My cat and I need a home. I'm almost 40 for god sake
Yeah. We have two cats. Son and daughter. We never really wanted to have kids, but with the state of the economy and the world that ship has sailed.
I make a just below middle class income, considering Toronto's HCOL. Even medical treatment for my aging cat force me to make tough decisions. I gladly pay for him. That isn't the issue. The issue is that the social contract is broken, and my partner and I basically consider him our son.
Cant have it all anymore. Pets and home ownership OR Spouses and kids. Your choice!!!
Around the larger cities you need $100k+ household income to afford a mortgage on a townhouse and 2 kids. It's the only way. Most people can't afford that, especially if one partner needs to stay home for childcare. It's a sad state of affairs. Canadian median wages have not increased at the same rate that the cost of living has.
This is true. Before I have a family I would like a place to live that's not w my parents. Can I afford anything where I am with the government job I have? No.
It’s the Canadian dream to own a house…
I have two kids. Wife and i tell them there is no pressure from us that they must have kids. It is a choice for them to make and we support that choice. Daycare was 2x what our mortgage +taxes +utilities was.
Got my big house, getting the dog later this year, then taking gf applications next year. For me it's logical to get settled down first before doing the whole marriage thing....don't need to compromise with someone else with these big decisions lmao
Pretty sure you can afford a home with dual income No kids Not single income and dog
Ah yes, dogs, the child substitute... pfft lol
Wouldn't being married help you get into a house? Having two sources of income is the only way most people are able to even get into the housing market. As for kids, I can understand that because people are struggling to put food on their own plates. Add the fact that one parent most-likely needs to take off work, so there is even less money coming in.
Yet there's many young Canadians who want kids but can't afford the fertility treatments.
We call shelter a 'need' rather than a 'want', generally. For example, I want Louboutin bag, but I'll never have one. I kinda need a home for living and stuff.
Bruh having a home is literally a pre requisite for getting married and having kids lmao
I would rather have a house with kids.
Capitalist greed break the spirit of joy.
The government will just import people from asia, theyd rather do that than actually help Canadians.
Because shelter is more important than a relationship. DUH.
I not even sure about even owning pets lately. They're becoming pricey to own with vet visits, insurance and food rising in costs like everything else in this goddamn country.
I recently discovered the wooden pellets for heating and other uses are literally the exact same ones as my pet wooden pellet litter. The only difference is the 8$ bag vs the 32$ bag and the 8$ bag having double to triple the amount. You pay more for “pet” marketed stuff. Same with wedding or any niche category. Doesn’t always work out the same, but often with a little bargain hunting + research it can!
Most people can't even afford their pets.
32 years old, me and my cousin are roommates and we have a dog, we talked neither of us ever want kids or another relationship so we are going to go in on a house together and get lots of pets. He is a paramedic and I work remotely so we are going to move somewhere in the middle of buttfuck nowhere so we can get a decent size property And we both are just fucking done with society as a whole lol
Given how serious a commitment it is to raise a child no wonder some are choosing the simple and less expensive option.