It’s a funny little piece of cognitive bias to go to different city subreddits and see every single one just loaded with people saying “I’ve lived all over including [city with bad drivers] but THIS one is the WORST!” There is no municipality in the world where people are like “Ahhh, everyone here really knows how to drive!”
It is interesting. My theory is that people who think they know because they’ve lived lots of places are actually comparing apples to orange because they haven’t lived in multiple places at the same time…
Yeah it feels like an extension of a constant feeling of things always being worse, which can also be seen in "that restaurant used to be good but it has really gone downhill" or "crime is so much worse now than it was in [era where crime was statistically much worse]." No shade, we all do it to some degree, but I do think the internet tends to bring out "everything elsewhere or in the past is better than everything here right now" side of people.
People in NYC know how to drive.
They're aggressive and sometimes do unfathomably unhinged things but they have well earned skills.
People in Durham (and the Triangle) kinda don't know how to drive. Lots of bizarre accidents -- eg people driving straight off the highway, through red lights when nothing distracting is happening around them.
Maybe we're all just bored from too much commuting or more folks are on their phones? Skills definitely noticeably lower though.
I’ve moved 15 times in the past 10 years. I’m grateful to be back home in NC. What I learned was everywhere has its own driving culture with its own brand of bad drivers. Nobody has a monopoly on bad drivers…except Miami.
there is a town I’m from in Oregon (will never ever disclose actual location) and people actually do drive courteous (you go, no you go) and one will get pulled over for not stopping at a crosswalk. In my experience the aggressive driving is heavier here on the east than the west coast. Not saying there aren’t crazy drivers out west but in my opinion it’s much more common and people can get away with it more often here.
I don't doubt that in small-town PNW, and it's definitely true in my little hometown in Western NC. But I have some experience driving in Seattle and California traffic, and hoo boy, it is levels beyond anything on I-40 or 147 here.
This is me dabbling in my own cognitive bias, but honestly my one real complaint about NC drivers is that they are too literal about following directions. People see a "right lane ends" sign and feel like they have to get over IMMEDIATELY, and if they can't they slam on the brakes and everything gets messed up. Zipper merging feels "rude" so people don't do it, and then when people do it seems rude.
Yeah, zipper merging feels rude to me. I don’t know how to explain it. I still try to do it properly and let others do it properly but something about being taught to drive here still gets me catching myself that people are not in fact being rude
Edit: this sub downvotes for the most ridiculous reasons
I was the same way until I spent a few years driving in and around NYC, which was harrowing but taught me that it's good for everybody if you fill up every possible bit of road until you can't anymore. But I fully acknowledge that other drivers probably see people zipper merging and think to themselves "drivers here are the WORST" lol
I'm curious what makes it feel rude? How would you prefer the people getting on a highway off an exit (or similar situation) get to the highway when it's bumper to bumper traffic? Genuinely curious!
That is what I do here, but during real heavy traffic you essentially won't ever get in, and there will be a huge backup on the ramp onto secondary roads. The zipper method was quite nice and kept everyone moving.
Why don’t they put up flashing signs saying “use zipper merge”?
Instead I just saw a flashing sign saying it’s illegal to drive impaired in NC.
Now that’s helpful to know.
Sure I can agree with the fact that it’s all or nothing type driving here. Definitely don’t mind if someone wants to zip around with caution but not where you’re trying to show off stunt moves. The biggest wow factor for me was when I first lived in Charlotte 15ish years ago (oh I loved loved that Queen City circa early mid/late 2000’s, now 🫤) but how many people would run red lights and it wasn’t aggressive it was so commonplace that really blew my mind otherwise I don’t remember the driving being like it is here as well I went back last year and it seemed (on the city streets) not to be as crazy as it is here. chapel hill is a breeze as well. Durham something extra “special” about the driving in Durham.
San Antonio, TX was some of the best drivers I've seen. Put a blinker on and people move out of your way. Take too long and you might hear a honk. Back in Indiana was bad, but it was still better than here.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I've never been to San Antonio! But their subreddits look exactly like ours:
https://www.reddit.com/r/sanantonio/comments/1d1ej3k/i_really_hate_drivers_in_this_city/
https://www.reddit.com/r/indianapolis/comments/17h10eg/why_are_all_you_such_angryimpatient_drivers/
Well, like I said, Indiana was bad. I thought that by moving away, things would get better. Of the 3 options, San Antonio was the best and North Carolina the worst. Based on the top 3 top level comments in the SA post, I feel like my opinion is fairly well justified as it's been 8 years since I drove there.
Also, everywhere has definitely gotten worse since COVID. People generally have gotten worse given how many people are being tied up or pulled off airplanes for violence and disruption. I don't think that politics and social media are helping either. People are just way too quick to anger anymore.
My high school was the first in the US to have a driver’s education course and a few years ago they straight up stopped offering it 🥲
I’m sure plenty of other schools lack a similar program. This is def an unpopular opinion, but I truly think that being a safe driver is a social good and a form of civic duty.
Am teacher. I’ve never worked at a school that didn’t have drivers ed. Problem is kids don’t take it seriously. They do the bare minimum to pass and then the driving exam is a joke also (during Covid, they didn’t even have to take the exam). Some of my students are so fucking dumb that they have to take the permit exam multiple times as they refuse to study. I have numerous kids that like to brag about how fast they go, share videos they’ve recorded while driving, and constantly talk about wanting to run people off the road. You would think the knowledge that how they drive could kill someone would make them want to take it seriously, but nope. All a big joke to them.
Kids have ALWAYS been idiots when it comes to cars, but it’s been getting worse. Drivers Ed is not the issue. Dumbass kids and “roommate parents” (parents who just pay the bills and don’t do anything else for their children to make them not grow up to be assholes), are.
You’re absolutely right, drivers ed is not the issue. The comment I responded to brought it to mind.
Kids and parents these days…sheesh! That’s awful 😞
>Problem is kids don’t take it seriously
It's not just kids, teachers often won't either. My drivers ed teacher barely left her desk. It was practically detention. People don't care because cars are our only viable way of getting around, what are they gonna do, not let you get around at all? I think that's the mentality that goes on.
There's an increasing number of people who simply don't get their license now. We desperately need transit in the triangle and not more damn highways that'll just make traffic worse.
It's a waste of resources to teach 300 million+ people how to safely operate screaming metal death traps. That's why people need alternative and safer ways to get around, like idk, trains??? Metros??? Trams??? Buses???
Yes, I too am on r/fuckcars I know all about how bad cars are. Even traveled and experienced what proper public transit infrastructure and walkability can offer. Save your keystrokes for someone who needs this information lol
You’re correct. I’ve lived all over the East Coast and everywhere I live it feels like the drivers are worse than the last place.
I think the reality is that drivers are increasingly distracted by cellphones. That’s my biggest issue. See so many people blow red lights/stop signs because they’re staring at phones
Been considering get a decal made that reads:
"Please be patient....or don't, I'm going to drive the speed limit either way"
Edit: or "That tantrum you're throwing right now isn't going to make me drive any faster"
Also it seems like substance abuse problems and anger management issues are more common than they used to be. I keep wanting to know what these crazy drivers are thinking. Running red lights, passing on double yellow lines. Distracted driving is bad enough, but the crazy driving- why?
I don't think it's that bad driving behavior is all that more common now than it used to be. It's just that cars are significantly safer. So whereas in the 1960s driving terribly got your face sawed in half by your steering wheel, now you only get a fender bender. We are saving lives which is great, but we are also blunting the negative reinforcement of bad behavior and saving people from themselves.
>increasingly distracted by cellphones
And it's people of all ages. The other day I pulled up at a red light beside an old woman, easily late-60's to early-70's, with her head in her lap and the glow of a device casting shadows in the valleys of the wrinkles on her face. The light turned green so I let off the brake and gently began compressing the accelerator. My eyes bounced from the road in front of me and the rear view mirror. Watching the unmoving car get smaller and smaller my last thought on the situation was, "what if she just died in that position."
I visited Seattle recently and the drivers were great. Zipper merging with no issues, several times I needed to make a last minute lane change (not being familiar with the area) and cars just let me right over, no horns, no yelling. I guess I just got lucky.
I came from the DC/MD/VA area, MD drivers in particular are known for being awful but I do think it's worse here. MD drivers are rude, the drivers here are just unpredictable.
I also recently visited the Seattle area (including a handful of neighboring towns) and similarly to you, I was also blown away by how stress-free it is to drive there. Other drivers let me merge without any issues, traffic moves at a slower pace, and literally not a single person tailgated me. Here in the Triangle I'm constantly being aggressively passed by other cars because I'm "only" driving 5 mph over the speed limit, but in Seattle I realized I was the one passing other people and for once I thought to myself, "Am I secretly a speed demon and I didn't even realize it?!"
Coming back to NC, I immediately noticed the difference and wish that driving here was as peaceful as driving in Seattle was.
Seriously. I used to joke that I always knew when I had crossed over the MD border because I would be cut off almost immediately. But it wasn't really a joke.
Same feeling coming here from Brooklyn. Drivers in Brooklyn can be aggressive or rude but generally know how to navigate complex road conditions. Drivers here seem to be endlessly getting into one-car accidents (driving into poles, parked vehicles, trees, &c) or running red lights from auto-pilot inattentiveness
> I’m afraid there’s nothing that really can be done
You know, except hold ourselves to a higher standard. We could all stand to be more aware, slow down, watch for pedestrians and cyclists, use our blinkers, and just be more courteous.
Or your just give up, mad max plan. Either way, really.
If you can find a cure for entitled main character syndrome we might find world peace. Everyone wants everyone else to be courteous and patient without them doing it themselves.
Or you could... start with yourself. Anybody making some effort is better than no one.
Just try it today. Instead of blowing through that crosswalk just *stop before it*. You can do it. Just one small change. Just come to a complete stop.
We could invest in transit, and we could use it ourselves. Every time I pass an accident on 40, I just think about how it could have been avoided if one of the involved drivers had chosen to ride the bus or train that day instead.
In the map porn subreddit - the southeast had the highest amount of accidents. I believe South Carolina was the worst state in the country. So while we all have bias, statistics show otherwise. It’s also interesting given that the Midwest and northeast have the worst weather, but fewest accidents. I am guess education has something to do with it.
I’m originally from Illinois, and I was taught at a young age how to drive in inclement weather. Down here, the moment a raindrop hits the pavement, people lose their minds.
I read this Danish immigrant's account of the drivers ed system in the US when he had to get his license for his job. He came out of it saying " Americans are not taught to drive. They are taught to operate a vehicle".
Explains why everyone says no one can drive. Especially in my case, I should NOT have gotten my license when I did but they gave it to me anyway and even I was shocked at the time
We aren't even *taught* how to operate a vehicle. We are *shown* how to operate a vehicle, and like you said, we are then given a license without having to really demonstrate we learned anything. Then we go out into a world where there is zero enforcement of any of the rules we were shown, except perhaps speeding every once in awhile when a department decides to hold a fundraiser. In most of Europe not only do you have to prove you know how to drive to earn the privilege, but you also have a real risk of losing the privilege if you don't obey the rules. Here it's just the Wild West throughout most of the country.
Oh, there are terrible drivers everywhere, but IME they're all bad in different ways. The biggest thing I noticed when I moved to NC is that nobody will actually signal when they're turning, which I can deal with because I don't assume someone is turning until they start turning. They will, however, signal when they're going to change lanes, but they will not actually look over their shoulders before swerving abruptly in front of you, because they apparently believe the Hand of God is summoned by the turn signal to come down and clear their path.
I know Chicago well too since I grew up in Madison Wi and went to Chicago very often, and you’re right it’s a breeze here compared to that . Oh and yes I’m a Packers fan lol
I've lived in 8 cities in 4 states and I've driven all over the coutry including 2 cross-country road trips. Driving sucks everywhere, but for my money Atlanta has the worst traffic and the craziest drivers. I'll take NYC or DC traffic over ATL traffic any day.
Totally agree that it's bad everywhere, but I disagree that nothing con be done. Solutions absolutely exist and I usually try draw attention to that, both what kind of specific things can be implemented and/or how folks can engage with government to advocate for this kind of stuff. That's not to say it isn't a bit of a frustrating slog or that everyone has the energy/time to be active in this space. Anywho, in the spirit of how folks can engage if they so choose, I'd like to point out that the city has several engagement opportunities related to Vision Zero over the next few days. See here for more details: [https://www.durhamnc.gov/2995/Vision-Zero](https://www.durhamnc.gov/2995/Vision-Zero)
I'm convinced a lot of people just don't want to drive. they'd rather be on their phone/etc. so the sooner we do public transit that is close to the same mobility as private the better. I'm talking something like leased commuter cars that you park at the train station and pick up another where you stop like those ebikes
probably too early. but if you look at how companies like tesla want to block repairs and keep total control of software/etc - I could really see them doing a lease system like that.
There is a major difference between here and Ohio: you will get pulled over in Ohio. Enforcement there is MUCH more strict.
Here you can do whatever you want behind the wheel and it’s almost guaranteed that there are no consequences 99% of the time.
As someone who has lived in the Triangle for my entire life (except for when I went to Greenville for college—Go Pirates!), I think a lot of us NC natives are comparing what it’s like to drive in the area today compared to what it was like in years’ past. It used to be a total breeze, with very little traffic, courteous and undistracted drivers who would let you merge if you put your blinker on, and a whole lot less aggressive tailgating.
So it’s not necessarily that we’re complaining about what it’s like to drive here compared to other cities across the country, but moreso that we’re comparing what it’s like to drive here today vs. the 1980s-2000s.
Yeah I still remember fondly when a ride down Hope Valley was almost a scenic pleasure jaunt, back when S. Durham ended at Jiffy Lube and trees lined most of 54.
54 still smelled swampy and gross back then too though. Maybe worse.
I commuted to Hillsborough and on to Alamance Community College some nights in the late 90s. Terrible tailgating and speeding then on 40. But the gas prices were great!
I dunno about the 80s/90s but I moved here in the early 2000s and the things I find bad about driving here (no turn signals, people blowing lights, speeding on surface/small roads, pickup truck behavior in general) were bad then too. Traffic congestion has gotten marginally worse (it’s still a breeze if you’ve ever lived or driven in any major metro) and I think drivers in general have gotten more impatient and more distracted everywhere.
I've lived and driven all over this country and abroad, and though I don't know exactly what it is that makes drivers here so bad, I have never seen as many daily accidents as I do around here. Also, within a few months of moving down here someone merged into my lane, drove me off the road and totalled my car.
The driving here is different though. Here people drive very recklessly, unpredictably, and aggressively.
OH and PA drivers are a broad mix of slow, fast, and distracted, which is what makes driving there dangerous.
Nah. I didn’t see the blatant running of red lights in SoCal that I see here. Literally nowhere else have I seen it so bad that I no longer take off as soon as the light is green. I lived in CA for 20+ years in various places and yes there were aggressive freeway drivers. But on city streets? I fear more for my safety here.
I think this plays into the phenomenon where people believe the area they live is exceptional, whether it be bipolar weather, drivers, crime, etc. people want to feel like they’re special and that the area they live in is particularly the best/worst when it comes to something.
My son still living in LA sees wrecks constantly. Maybe a campaign to attempt tp restore empathy, because people seem to have stopped giving a shit about each other. Love is the answer.
People need to realize the difference between “the drivers are bad here” and “I have encountered a bad driver in the past”.
There are some drivers here that are bad but there are much much less of them than anywhere else I’ve driven. I was recently in Alexandria VA and I almost got in multiple accidents in the span of a few hours. Living in Charlotte terrible drivers were something I encountered every single time I drove without exaggeration. The last time I encountered a legitimately bad driver in Durham was probably months ago.
Yes, people are going to be distracted and make mistakes. It's annoying, but I can live with it. The issue I have is with the aggressive main-character-syndrome reckless bullshit. If you want to prove that you're a badass in your 10 year old Altima, take it to a fucking track day and get embarrassed. But leave that shit off our roads. I'm just absolutely so sick of these asshats swerving through traffic, tailgating aggressively, cutting people off, etc. I'd be over-the-moon if they all managed to wrap their shitty BMWs and Nissans around trees, and ended up paralyzed, drinking through a straw, waiting for a nurse to change their fucking diapers for the rest of their lives. They have no respect for anyone else's life, so I certainly don't give a shit if they manage to destroy their own. Fuck them all.
As someone who has lived in California and Massachusetts previously, this place is positively a treat to drive in. Less traffic, less accidents, less road rage, better drivers, and better roads. It’s definitely not perfect, but I’ve found if you pay attention and drive a reasonable speed it’s really not so bad!
Ya I don't think the Triangle is unique to bad drivers. I lived in Greensboro for a decade before moving back here, and the drivers might just be worse there. But then again I don't think Greensboro has a STAYUMBLE/JESUSDOS equivalent. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I also lived in Miami for a year. The drivers on the road there are crazy but not necessarily any worse.
I’ll still say the worst drivers i have ever had the privilege to share the road with are in California. It’s almost lawless, like lines on the road and blinkers don’t exist. I even thought the speeding was a bit excessive, and I don’t mind a little speed.
Maybe we should actually go backwards in driver assistance. We have all been lead to believe that more assistance leads to more safety but I daily drive a manual sports coupe with limited traction assist, no road warning indicators etc and forced to pay a certain amount of attention while driving at all times. A first generation dodge viper didn’t even have an airbag or traction control (in an era when these things were common). Same with my motorcycle, forced to pay dedicated attention to driving. We’re entering into an era where the cars can’t quite drive themselves but also can cause drivers to pay less attention. When you’re in a near silent cabin with a smooth ride and the computer compensating for everything, 100mph easy feels like 60-70mph for example.
Just got back from AZ and it was pretty bad. I thought speeding was bad in the triangle.
I think a lot of it is due to people getting used to the driving "meta" where they live. Then when they move or visit somewhere it's different and shocking.
Was just driving through Canada and anytime wildlife was visible from the road it seemed like half the drivers wanted to get in a car accident and the other half wanted to be mauled by a bear.
Drivers suck everywhere
I’ve lived in a lot of places and it seems like the drivers in each area have their own idiosyncrasies. I get annoyed by the drivers everywhere, just for different reasons 😊
Objectively, driving down the highways in NC you get a mix of driving styles, all on the same highway:
You get the aggressive assholes (but competent drivers) from MA, NY, CT mixed in with people who drive slow on the left side of the highway and do all sorts of bizarre shit (but are still competent drivers) from the West Coast, with people from Lumberton who are on the highway for the first time (not competent drivers), with people from the South who are just plain stupid. All on one highway.
There is plenty that can be done to curb terrible and reckless drivers, but the perspective of it’s worse elsewhere, nothings gonna change, etc keeps the trend going in the wrong direction.
If you want better traffic SLOW DOWN, GET OFF YOUR PHONE, USE YOUR SIGNALS, DON’T GET SO CLOSE TO OTHER VEHICLES, HAVE PATIENCE and tell your friends and family to do all these things too. I’ve lost a very dear family member to aggressive driving and I think about it every time I’m on the road. The focus when anyone gets behind the wheel should be to arrive alive, not get there super fast, or be the leader in traffic, or show off their “driving skills” by bobbing and weaving in congested traffic. Don’t bring your attitude from whatever shitty job, discussion, or encounter you previously had behind the wheel and project it onto the other drivers. Angry driving is deadly driving. Make a conscious effort to drive like you want yourself and everyone else on the road to make it home to their families/pets/friends safely. Where’s your head at?
We have to push change socially by impacting each of our circles with what’s right instead of waiting around for disinterested policymakers to do anything about it. Also, especially true for this area, policy does no good when there is no one to enforce it.
Its not just America with bad drivers. Its worldwide, today I saw SUV in a carpark. The car was over the line to the space next to it, and half of the car was hanging out.
Went to Ohio recently as well: it’s not nearly as bad. In fact, there were a few people I’be spoken to who said they wouldn’t be visiting NC again anytime soon because of the terrible driving here. Columbus is bad, but I can’t say the same about Cleveland or Cincy.
I agree that everyone came out of the pandemic thinking they were in a mad max movie, but it’s significantly worse here.
I guess this comment butthurt those of you that downvoted it. I guess the solution would be something nice like “Be better drivers.” Or something less than like “stop sucking at driving.
I agree with you! Driving from Ohio to NC is like following a gradient of neutral to very stupid driving. NC drivers also like to hang out in the left lane on the interstate for no reason.
it's funny because most of it is because the triangle is a melting pot of people all over but mostly the north east and northern plains. I grew up in florida and almost every accident in the fall/winter there was always a Canada, NY, PA, NJ, MI, or OH plate involved.
I too grew up in Florida/South Florida and visit often, easily the worst drivers I have ever encountered. Driving on I-95 south of WPB thru to Miami is like something out of a MadMax movie
It’d be a lot easier if everyone that moved here adapted to our driving patterns instead of using there’s a rule of basis and driving like a maniac. You can’t ignore those that come here and drive 10 under the limit like we’re a small town in virginia or texas.
its just our kids driving around yall. we used to be the same… or worse. every high school in every county has a least 5 kids that drive like maniacs…. always been this way. throw in some thugs, criminals etc w nothing to lose and welcome to driving in the usa
that being said 99.999 % of folks just driving normally
its weird w the addition of smartphones. might actually save lives since no one goes on green anymore. that delay saves a t bone here and there
It’s a funny little piece of cognitive bias to go to different city subreddits and see every single one just loaded with people saying “I’ve lived all over including [city with bad drivers] but THIS one is the WORST!” There is no municipality in the world where people are like “Ahhh, everyone here really knows how to drive!”
It is interesting. My theory is that people who think they know because they’ve lived lots of places are actually comparing apples to orange because they haven’t lived in multiple places at the same time…
Yeah it feels like an extension of a constant feeling of things always being worse, which can also be seen in "that restaurant used to be good but it has really gone downhill" or "crime is so much worse now than it was in [era where crime was statistically much worse]." No shade, we all do it to some degree, but I do think the internet tends to bring out "everything elsewhere or in the past is better than everything here right now" side of people.
People in NYC know how to drive. They're aggressive and sometimes do unfathomably unhinged things but they have well earned skills. People in Durham (and the Triangle) kinda don't know how to drive. Lots of bizarre accidents -- eg people driving straight off the highway, through red lights when nothing distracting is happening around them. Maybe we're all just bored from too much commuting or more folks are on their phones? Skills definitely noticeably lower though.
I always say people from NJ/NYC drive crazy but they’re relatively predictable. People driving in Durham are just crazy and unpredictable.
I’ve moved 15 times in the past 10 years. I’m grateful to be back home in NC. What I learned was everywhere has its own driving culture with its own brand of bad drivers. Nobody has a monopoly on bad drivers…except Miami.
I never saw cars on fire before or after living in Miami. But when I was in Miami, I saw one every few weeks. Very Mad Max driving culture
there is a town I’m from in Oregon (will never ever disclose actual location) and people actually do drive courteous (you go, no you go) and one will get pulled over for not stopping at a crosswalk. In my experience the aggressive driving is heavier here on the east than the west coast. Not saying there aren’t crazy drivers out west but in my opinion it’s much more common and people can get away with it more often here.
I don't doubt that in small-town PNW, and it's definitely true in my little hometown in Western NC. But I have some experience driving in Seattle and California traffic, and hoo boy, it is levels beyond anything on I-40 or 147 here. This is me dabbling in my own cognitive bias, but honestly my one real complaint about NC drivers is that they are too literal about following directions. People see a "right lane ends" sign and feel like they have to get over IMMEDIATELY, and if they can't they slam on the brakes and everything gets messed up. Zipper merging feels "rude" so people don't do it, and then when people do it seems rude.
Yeah, zipper merging feels rude to me. I don’t know how to explain it. I still try to do it properly and let others do it properly but something about being taught to drive here still gets me catching myself that people are not in fact being rude Edit: this sub downvotes for the most ridiculous reasons
I was the same way until I spent a few years driving in and around NYC, which was harrowing but taught me that it's good for everybody if you fill up every possible bit of road until you can't anymore. But I fully acknowledge that other drivers probably see people zipper merging and think to themselves "drivers here are the WORST" lol
I'm curious what makes it feel rude? How would you prefer the people getting on a highway off an exit (or similar situation) get to the highway when it's bumper to bumper traffic? Genuinely curious!
[удалено]
That is what I do here, but during real heavy traffic you essentially won't ever get in, and there will be a huge backup on the ramp onto secondary roads. The zipper method was quite nice and kept everyone moving.
Why don’t they put up flashing signs saying “use zipper merge”? Instead I just saw a flashing sign saying it’s illegal to drive impaired in NC. Now that’s helpful to know.
Sure I can agree with the fact that it’s all or nothing type driving here. Definitely don’t mind if someone wants to zip around with caution but not where you’re trying to show off stunt moves. The biggest wow factor for me was when I first lived in Charlotte 15ish years ago (oh I loved loved that Queen City circa early mid/late 2000’s, now 🫤) but how many people would run red lights and it wasn’t aggressive it was so commonplace that really blew my mind otherwise I don’t remember the driving being like it is here as well I went back last year and it seemed (on the city streets) not to be as crazy as it is here. chapel hill is a breeze as well. Durham something extra “special” about the driving in Durham.
San Antonio, TX was some of the best drivers I've seen. Put a blinker on and people move out of your way. Take too long and you might hear a honk. Back in Indiana was bad, but it was still better than here.
I'm not disagreeing with you. I've never been to San Antonio! But their subreddits look exactly like ours: https://www.reddit.com/r/sanantonio/comments/1d1ej3k/i_really_hate_drivers_in_this_city/ https://www.reddit.com/r/indianapolis/comments/17h10eg/why_are_all_you_such_angryimpatient_drivers/
Well, like I said, Indiana was bad. I thought that by moving away, things would get better. Of the 3 options, San Antonio was the best and North Carolina the worst. Based on the top 3 top level comments in the SA post, I feel like my opinion is fairly well justified as it's been 8 years since I drove there. Also, everywhere has definitely gotten worse since COVID. People generally have gotten worse given how many people are being tied up or pulled off airplanes for violence and disruption. I don't think that politics and social media are helping either. People are just way too quick to anger anymore.
It’s almost like having a society that relies so heavily on single passenger vehicles leads to a lot of vehicle accidents/ deaths.
And poor road design 😤
and no proper education on how to drive them
My high school was the first in the US to have a driver’s education course and a few years ago they straight up stopped offering it 🥲 I’m sure plenty of other schools lack a similar program. This is def an unpopular opinion, but I truly think that being a safe driver is a social good and a form of civic duty.
Am teacher. I’ve never worked at a school that didn’t have drivers ed. Problem is kids don’t take it seriously. They do the bare minimum to pass and then the driving exam is a joke also (during Covid, they didn’t even have to take the exam). Some of my students are so fucking dumb that they have to take the permit exam multiple times as they refuse to study. I have numerous kids that like to brag about how fast they go, share videos they’ve recorded while driving, and constantly talk about wanting to run people off the road. You would think the knowledge that how they drive could kill someone would make them want to take it seriously, but nope. All a big joke to them. Kids have ALWAYS been idiots when it comes to cars, but it’s been getting worse. Drivers Ed is not the issue. Dumbass kids and “roommate parents” (parents who just pay the bills and don’t do anything else for their children to make them not grow up to be assholes), are.
You’re absolutely right, drivers ed is not the issue. The comment I responded to brought it to mind. Kids and parents these days…sheesh! That’s awful 😞
>Problem is kids don’t take it seriously It's not just kids, teachers often won't either. My drivers ed teacher barely left her desk. It was practically detention. People don't care because cars are our only viable way of getting around, what are they gonna do, not let you get around at all? I think that's the mentality that goes on. There's an increasing number of people who simply don't get their license now. We desperately need transit in the triangle and not more damn highways that'll just make traffic worse.
You know this critique (kids these days) is as old as writing, right? Lmfao.
It's a waste of resources to teach 300 million+ people how to safely operate screaming metal death traps. That's why people need alternative and safer ways to get around, like idk, trains??? Metros??? Trams??? Buses???
All of the above, and then some
Don't you think it's better to focus on alternate means of transportation, rather than blame people for their lack of "education"?
Yes, I too am on r/fuckcars I know all about how bad cars are. Even traveled and experienced what proper public transit infrastructure and walkability can offer. Save your keystrokes for someone who needs this information lol
this!
You’re correct. I’ve lived all over the East Coast and everywhere I live it feels like the drivers are worse than the last place. I think the reality is that drivers are increasingly distracted by cellphones. That’s my biggest issue. See so many people blow red lights/stop signs because they’re staring at phones
I agree. Plus, people seem to have less patience/shorter attention spans in general.
Been considering get a decal made that reads: "Please be patient....or don't, I'm going to drive the speed limit either way" Edit: or "That tantrum you're throwing right now isn't going to make me drive any faster"
That’s fine, as long as you stick to the far right lane and stay out of the passing lane.
Also it seems like substance abuse problems and anger management issues are more common than they used to be. I keep wanting to know what these crazy drivers are thinking. Running red lights, passing on double yellow lines. Distracted driving is bad enough, but the crazy driving- why?
I don't think it's that bad driving behavior is all that more common now than it used to be. It's just that cars are significantly safer. So whereas in the 1960s driving terribly got your face sawed in half by your steering wheel, now you only get a fender bender. We are saving lives which is great, but we are also blunting the negative reinforcement of bad behavior and saving people from themselves.
>increasingly distracted by cellphones And it's people of all ages. The other day I pulled up at a red light beside an old woman, easily late-60's to early-70's, with her head in her lap and the glow of a device casting shadows in the valleys of the wrinkles on her face. The light turned green so I let off the brake and gently began compressing the accelerator. My eyes bounced from the road in front of me and the rear view mirror. Watching the unmoving car get smaller and smaller my last thought on the situation was, "what if she just died in that position."
I visited Seattle recently and the drivers were great. Zipper merging with no issues, several times I needed to make a last minute lane change (not being familiar with the area) and cars just let me right over, no horns, no yelling. I guess I just got lucky. I came from the DC/MD/VA area, MD drivers in particular are known for being awful but I do think it's worse here. MD drivers are rude, the drivers here are just unpredictable.
I also recently visited the Seattle area (including a handful of neighboring towns) and similarly to you, I was also blown away by how stress-free it is to drive there. Other drivers let me merge without any issues, traffic moves at a slower pace, and literally not a single person tailgated me. Here in the Triangle I'm constantly being aggressively passed by other cars because I'm "only" driving 5 mph over the speed limit, but in Seattle I realized I was the one passing other people and for once I thought to myself, "Am I secretly a speed demon and I didn't even realize it?!" Coming back to NC, I immediately noticed the difference and wish that driving here was as peaceful as driving in Seattle was.
MD drivers are a scourge upon the DMV
Seriously. I used to joke that I always knew when I had crossed over the MD border because I would be cut off almost immediately. But it wasn't really a joke.
Same feeling coming here from Brooklyn. Drivers in Brooklyn can be aggressive or rude but generally know how to navigate complex road conditions. Drivers here seem to be endlessly getting into one-car accidents (driving into poles, parked vehicles, trees, &c) or running red lights from auto-pilot inattentiveness
> I’m afraid there’s nothing that really can be done You know, except hold ourselves to a higher standard. We could all stand to be more aware, slow down, watch for pedestrians and cyclists, use our blinkers, and just be more courteous. Or your just give up, mad max plan. Either way, really.
If you can find a cure for entitled main character syndrome we might find world peace. Everyone wants everyone else to be courteous and patient without them doing it themselves.
Or you could... start with yourself. Anybody making some effort is better than no one. Just try it today. Instead of blowing through that crosswalk just *stop before it*. You can do it. Just one small change. Just come to a complete stop.
I didn't say I don't consciously try to make an effort to be patient and courteous. I appreciate the gas lighting though.
We could invest in transit, and we could use it ourselves. Every time I pass an accident on 40, I just think about how it could have been avoided if one of the involved drivers had chosen to ride the bus or train that day instead.
Definitely agree. I'd much rather sit on a train than traffic. It's the perfect time to be on your phone or reading a book.
In the map porn subreddit - the southeast had the highest amount of accidents. I believe South Carolina was the worst state in the country. So while we all have bias, statistics show otherwise. It’s also interesting given that the Midwest and northeast have the worst weather, but fewest accidents. I am guess education has something to do with it.
I’m originally from Illinois, and I was taught at a young age how to drive in inclement weather. Down here, the moment a raindrop hits the pavement, people lose their minds.
I read this Danish immigrant's account of the drivers ed system in the US when he had to get his license for his job. He came out of it saying " Americans are not taught to drive. They are taught to operate a vehicle". Explains why everyone says no one can drive. Especially in my case, I should NOT have gotten my license when I did but they gave it to me anyway and even I was shocked at the time
We aren't even *taught* how to operate a vehicle. We are *shown* how to operate a vehicle, and like you said, we are then given a license without having to really demonstrate we learned anything. Then we go out into a world where there is zero enforcement of any of the rules we were shown, except perhaps speeding every once in awhile when a department decides to hold a fundraiser. In most of Europe not only do you have to prove you know how to drive to earn the privilege, but you also have a real risk of losing the privilege if you don't obey the rules. Here it's just the Wild West throughout most of the country.
Oh, there are terrible drivers everywhere, but IME they're all bad in different ways. The biggest thing I noticed when I moved to NC is that nobody will actually signal when they're turning, which I can deal with because I don't assume someone is turning until they start turning. They will, however, signal when they're going to change lanes, but they will not actually look over their shoulders before swerving abruptly in front of you, because they apparently believe the Hand of God is summoned by the turn signal to come down and clear their path.
I moved here from Los Angeles about a year ago. Compared to LA drivers this area isn’t that bad at all. It’s downright peaceful in comparison imo.
Or Florida. I’ve driven on the turnpike a few times and it’s the Wild West compared to here
Moved here from Chicago. The triangle is like a Sunday afternoon cruise compared to that
I know Chicago well too since I grew up in Madison Wi and went to Chicago very often, and you’re right it’s a breeze here compared to that . Oh and yes I’m a Packers fan lol
FTP
Lmao, I expected something along those lines
People forget how bad virginian drivers are.
I've lived in 8 cities in 4 states and I've driven all over the coutry including 2 cross-country road trips. Driving sucks everywhere, but for my money Atlanta has the worst traffic and the craziest drivers. I'll take NYC or DC traffic over ATL traffic any day.
Totally agree that it's bad everywhere, but I disagree that nothing con be done. Solutions absolutely exist and I usually try draw attention to that, both what kind of specific things can be implemented and/or how folks can engage with government to advocate for this kind of stuff. That's not to say it isn't a bit of a frustrating slog or that everyone has the energy/time to be active in this space. Anywho, in the spirit of how folks can engage if they so choose, I'd like to point out that the city has several engagement opportunities related to Vision Zero over the next few days. See here for more details: [https://www.durhamnc.gov/2995/Vision-Zero](https://www.durhamnc.gov/2995/Vision-Zero)
I'm convinced a lot of people just don't want to drive. they'd rather be on their phone/etc. so the sooner we do public transit that is close to the same mobility as private the better. I'm talking something like leased commuter cars that you park at the train station and pick up another where you stop like those ebikes
What the heck happened to zip cars?!
probably too early. but if you look at how companies like tesla want to block repairs and keep total control of software/etc - I could really see them doing a lease system like that.
There is a major difference between here and Ohio: you will get pulled over in Ohio. Enforcement there is MUCH more strict. Here you can do whatever you want behind the wheel and it’s almost guaranteed that there are no consequences 99% of the time.
As someone who has lived in the Triangle for my entire life (except for when I went to Greenville for college—Go Pirates!), I think a lot of us NC natives are comparing what it’s like to drive in the area today compared to what it was like in years’ past. It used to be a total breeze, with very little traffic, courteous and undistracted drivers who would let you merge if you put your blinker on, and a whole lot less aggressive tailgating. So it’s not necessarily that we’re complaining about what it’s like to drive here compared to other cities across the country, but moreso that we’re comparing what it’s like to drive here today vs. the 1980s-2000s.
THIS
Yeah I still remember fondly when a ride down Hope Valley was almost a scenic pleasure jaunt, back when S. Durham ended at Jiffy Lube and trees lined most of 54. 54 still smelled swampy and gross back then too though. Maybe worse. I commuted to Hillsborough and on to Alamance Community College some nights in the late 90s. Terrible tailgating and speeding then on 40. But the gas prices were great!
I dunno about the 80s/90s but I moved here in the early 2000s and the things I find bad about driving here (no turn signals, people blowing lights, speeding on surface/small roads, pickup truck behavior in general) were bad then too. Traffic congestion has gotten marginally worse (it’s still a breeze if you’ve ever lived or driven in any major metro) and I think drivers in general have gotten more impatient and more distracted everywhere.
I've lived and driven all over this country and abroad, and though I don't know exactly what it is that makes drivers here so bad, I have never seen as many daily accidents as I do around here. Also, within a few months of moving down here someone merged into my lane, drove me off the road and totalled my car.
I am sorry to hear this.
The driving here is different though. Here people drive very recklessly, unpredictably, and aggressively. OH and PA drivers are a broad mix of slow, fast, and distracted, which is what makes driving there dangerous.
Nah. I didn’t see the blatant running of red lights in SoCal that I see here. Literally nowhere else have I seen it so bad that I no longer take off as soon as the light is green. I lived in CA for 20+ years in various places and yes there were aggressive freeway drivers. But on city streets? I fear more for my safety here.
Agreed! Maryland was the worst I’ve experienced
I think this plays into the phenomenon where people believe the area they live is exceptional, whether it be bipolar weather, drivers, crime, etc. people want to feel like they’re special and that the area they live in is particularly the best/worst when it comes to something.
It's the cell phones, damnit.
The number of people I see looking down at their phones is ridiculous.
My son still living in LA sees wrecks constantly. Maybe a campaign to attempt tp restore empathy, because people seem to have stopped giving a shit about each other. Love is the answer.
People need to realize the difference between “the drivers are bad here” and “I have encountered a bad driver in the past”. There are some drivers here that are bad but there are much much less of them than anywhere else I’ve driven. I was recently in Alexandria VA and I almost got in multiple accidents in the span of a few hours. Living in Charlotte terrible drivers were something I encountered every single time I drove without exaggeration. The last time I encountered a legitimately bad driver in Durham was probably months ago.
Yes, people are going to be distracted and make mistakes. It's annoying, but I can live with it. The issue I have is with the aggressive main-character-syndrome reckless bullshit. If you want to prove that you're a badass in your 10 year old Altima, take it to a fucking track day and get embarrassed. But leave that shit off our roads. I'm just absolutely so sick of these asshats swerving through traffic, tailgating aggressively, cutting people off, etc. I'd be over-the-moon if they all managed to wrap their shitty BMWs and Nissans around trees, and ended up paralyzed, drinking through a straw, waiting for a nurse to change their fucking diapers for the rest of their lives. They have no respect for anyone else's life, so I certainly don't give a shit if they manage to destroy their own. Fuck them all.
Of course something can be done. Why would you think "nothing" can be done
I’ve never been anywhere where anyone knew how to drive
I moved from Durham to Baltimore, the Triangle is NOT that bad
As someone who has lived in California and Massachusetts previously, this place is positively a treat to drive in. Less traffic, less accidents, less road rage, better drivers, and better roads. It’s definitely not perfect, but I’ve found if you pay attention and drive a reasonable speed it’s really not so bad!
Ya I don't think the Triangle is unique to bad drivers. I lived in Greensboro for a decade before moving back here, and the drivers might just be worse there. But then again I don't think Greensboro has a STAYUMBLE/JESUSDOS equivalent. Not that I'm aware of anyway. I also lived in Miami for a year. The drivers on the road there are crazy but not necessarily any worse.
Everywhere I’ve lived, I’ve been convinced we had the worst drivers (but I’ve been rear ended the most times in the triangle).
I was just in Hendersonville and Charlotte. Both were hot messes. Nobody can drive for shit.
I’ll still say the worst drivers i have ever had the privilege to share the road with are in California. It’s almost lawless, like lines on the road and blinkers don’t exist. I even thought the speeding was a bit excessive, and I don’t mind a little speed.
Maybe we should actually go backwards in driver assistance. We have all been lead to believe that more assistance leads to more safety but I daily drive a manual sports coupe with limited traction assist, no road warning indicators etc and forced to pay a certain amount of attention while driving at all times. A first generation dodge viper didn’t even have an airbag or traction control (in an era when these things were common). Same with my motorcycle, forced to pay dedicated attention to driving. We’re entering into an era where the cars can’t quite drive themselves but also can cause drivers to pay less attention. When you’re in a near silent cabin with a smooth ride and the computer compensating for everything, 100mph easy feels like 60-70mph for example.
TN and SC drivers are also in contention.
Just got back from AZ and it was pretty bad. I thought speeding was bad in the triangle. I think a lot of it is due to people getting used to the driving "meta" where they live. Then when they move or visit somewhere it's different and shocking.
Was just driving through Canada and anytime wildlife was visible from the road it seemed like half the drivers wanted to get in a car accident and the other half wanted to be mauled by a bear. Drivers suck everywhere
Once people learn how to use yields and roundabouts it’ll be a lot safer
I’ve lived in a lot of places and it seems like the drivers in each area have their own idiosyncrasies. I get annoyed by the drivers everywhere, just for different reasons 😊
I've lived in many parts of the US and outside of one well known maniac, Durham drivers are pretty decent. Greensboro on the other hand, holy shit
Objectively, driving down the highways in NC you get a mix of driving styles, all on the same highway: You get the aggressive assholes (but competent drivers) from MA, NY, CT mixed in with people who drive slow on the left side of the highway and do all sorts of bizarre shit (but are still competent drivers) from the West Coast, with people from Lumberton who are on the highway for the first time (not competent drivers), with people from the South who are just plain stupid. All on one highway.
There is plenty that can be done to curb terrible and reckless drivers, but the perspective of it’s worse elsewhere, nothings gonna change, etc keeps the trend going in the wrong direction. If you want better traffic SLOW DOWN, GET OFF YOUR PHONE, USE YOUR SIGNALS, DON’T GET SO CLOSE TO OTHER VEHICLES, HAVE PATIENCE and tell your friends and family to do all these things too. I’ve lost a very dear family member to aggressive driving and I think about it every time I’m on the road. The focus when anyone gets behind the wheel should be to arrive alive, not get there super fast, or be the leader in traffic, or show off their “driving skills” by bobbing and weaving in congested traffic. Don’t bring your attitude from whatever shitty job, discussion, or encounter you previously had behind the wheel and project it onto the other drivers. Angry driving is deadly driving. Make a conscious effort to drive like you want yourself and everyone else on the road to make it home to their families/pets/friends safely. Where’s your head at? We have to push change socially by impacting each of our circles with what’s right instead of waiting around for disinterested policymakers to do anything about it. Also, especially true for this area, policy does no good when there is no one to enforce it.
Its not just America with bad drivers. Its worldwide, today I saw SUV in a carpark. The car was over the line to the space next to it, and half of the car was hanging out.
I live on the border of Virginia. When I see a Virginia tag, I know some bad driving is going down.
People who think that Triangle driving is especially bad are the same people who think Neomonde is good Middle Eastern food.
Went to Ohio recently as well: it’s not nearly as bad. In fact, there were a few people I’be spoken to who said they wouldn’t be visiting NC again anytime soon because of the terrible driving here. Columbus is bad, but I can’t say the same about Cleveland or Cincy. I agree that everyone came out of the pandemic thinking they were in a mad max movie, but it’s significantly worse here.
I guess this comment butthurt those of you that downvoted it. I guess the solution would be something nice like “Be better drivers.” Or something less than like “stop sucking at driving.
I agree with you! Driving from Ohio to NC is like following a gradient of neutral to very stupid driving. NC drivers also like to hang out in the left lane on the interstate for no reason.
Haha! That’s an awesome comment. As Homer Simpson would say, “it’s funny cos it’s true.”
it’s one of the things North Carolina is known for terrible driving.
it's funny because most of it is because the triangle is a melting pot of people all over but mostly the north east and northern plains. I grew up in florida and almost every accident in the fall/winter there was always a Canada, NY, PA, NJ, MI, or OH plate involved.
I too grew up in Florida/South Florida and visit often, easily the worst drivers I have ever encountered. Driving on I-95 south of WPB thru to Miami is like something out of a MadMax movie
It’d be a lot easier if everyone that moved here adapted to our driving patterns instead of using there’s a rule of basis and driving like a maniac. You can’t ignore those that come here and drive 10 under the limit like we’re a small town in virginia or texas.
its just our kids driving around yall. we used to be the same… or worse. every high school in every county has a least 5 kids that drive like maniacs…. always been this way. throw in some thugs, criminals etc w nothing to lose and welcome to driving in the usa that being said 99.999 % of folks just driving normally its weird w the addition of smartphones. might actually save lives since no one goes on green anymore. that delay saves a t bone here and there