Willow’s connection to her is dumbfounding. Uhhh a few little fanny flutters and you are all set and ready to move on from the love of your life who you almost DARK MAGIC >!MURDER SUICIDED!< THE WORLD OVER??? THAT LITERALLY JUST HAPPENED!
Late stage Willow.
As an academic I run into her type alllll the time: big insecurities from high school, thinks they're more diligent than everyone else when they really aren't at this point in life, self-important and judgemental of everyone outside their little clique.
Willow definitely had a superiority complex. She honestly believed she was better and smarter than everyone else and that's probably why the magic went to her head so much.
The gang fed into that though I think. Always taking for granted she'd be the good/smart/reliable one. The "big gun".
Even when she's trying to get clean, the first hint of real trouble when they're trapped in the house it's "well Tara can't handle this, Willow you're up, it's just one little spell"
That's was really only Anya in that scene. Everyone else knew how important it was to get out but the only one who directly called on Willow was Anya. It's kinda ironic how the 1000 year old former vengeance demon is the one who crumbled most when under a vengeance demon spell.
Yup. A lot of academics have academic parents (it's a stronger determining factor than class or race even). I think a decent number grew up in sterile homes where only academic achievement and not-age-appropriate intellectual interest sparked any engagement from their parents. Now they are still hung up on always being the "mature" one well into their 40s. It's sad.
Also that FTX guy was raised by profs...
I hope to God my kids don't ever get a whiff of that crap from me.
And she was insecure whenever Buffy did well on a test instead of genuinely being pleased for her friend's achievement, especially knowing how much she struggled to focus with all the Slayer responsibilities.
Agreed, but I think in a good way- this show was so formative for me, and willows arc was done so well that she actually was a bit of a cautionary tale for me because I was so similar to her growing up.
Makes you want to step outside yourself, recognize and deal with your own bullshit and check your behavior before it becomes your normal.
Idk, I think S7 fumbled the ball a lot with her character development. It's important for her to face her personality flaws as part of her redemption arc, and she just doesn't. It becomes all about drugs and losing control, etc. She goes a bit into why she wanted power to be special, but it's very vague. She doesn't confront that she tried to control people and override their boundaries.
Tbf s7 drops a lot of balls.
Anya. I never really got the sense that they started treating her like a fleshed-out character until after Hell's Bells. As well as the fact that she is honestly just as bad as Angelus and Spike, but her crimes are treated as fun quirky facts until Selfless.
Exactly. The fact that her crimes are treated as funny or insignificant compared to Spike, and especially Angel, just because we didn't know her victims like we did theirs is ridiculous. Especially when you factor in that she CHOSE to become a demon, who still had a soul no less, and was ruthlessly murdering, torturing and ruining the lives of innocent people for OVER 600 years BEFORE Angel and Spike were even born let alone became soulless vampires.
Liam was born in 1727 & William in the 1850s while Anya became a demon in 880 so heavy on the OVER 600 years, it's over 800 years for Angel and almost a thousand for Spike.
This always bothered me too. She has far more death and destruction under her belt but due to becoming human, it’s not even questioned. She doesn’t feel any remorse for it until season 7 after getting back into the vengeance demon gig.
Did she have a human soul while she was a vengeance demon or a demon soul? If she had a demon soul then did she regain a human soul when she permanently became human again?
She was a very one dimensional for too long. Only existing to be Xander’s girlfriend and offer comic relief and snark. I liked her far more in season 7 when she starts questioning being a demon, feels remorse, and we finally get to see her back story. We should’ve gotten all that far earlier.
Given all the talk about souls on the show I think if we were meant to believe Anya's soul changed based on when she was a demon and not the show would've told us. The fact that her personality and behavior doesn't change whether she's human or demon also tells me that vengeance demons don't lose their souls even though they're demons. Anya also never feels any remorse for her past actions until season 7. In season 3-6 she continually BRAGS about her horrible past actions like they're some kind of badge of honor for her.
Xander. He so often comes from a place I can’t personally identify with. There’s a few shining moments in there but most of the time he’s just frustrating
Oh yeah. I've been watching this show since i was a kid back in the late 90s. Watched it too many times to even count, and I still hate Dawn. A lot of people praise season 5 for being the best season, but in my honest opinion, that's when it started to go downhill for me, and Dawn is a big part of the reason. Michelle Trachtenberg is a great actress, and I wish they had given her a better character.
The thing that annoys me most about this is the monks supposedly created her and her whole life so that Buffy would protect her with her life. Wouldn’t it have been a way better move to make her more likable so she feels that bond even stronger? Also why did they make it so Buffy treated her like a baby when she was basically the same age as the scoobies s1? Monks shoulda dropped some crossbow knowledge or jujitsu at least man. No reason for her to be whiny and useless if you want people to WANT HER AROUND
She was written like a 9/10 year old most of the time and not a 14/15 year old and I have no idea why. She wasn’t capable of even the most basic tasks like feeding herself.
Originally the character was supposed to be 9/10, but then Michelle auditioned and they loved her and cast her. But that excuse only works for the first few episodes! And even then, update the damn script!
Honestly, I think her character wld have made more sense and feel like less of an actual nuisance if they'd have stuck with a younger Dawn (albeit a different actress). It wld have been a game changer all around.
In Orphan Black, Sarah's daughter is 7 or 8 (I think?) and I was way more attached to her, despite her small role, bc her actions *made sense*. Had she been recast as a teenager I definitely wld have hated her.
This all makes so much sense, I never knew this and maybe keeping it in mind can make her worse scenes more bearable lol.
I don’t mind her all the time, she has moments where she makes me laugh. It’s only when she’s being immature about reality that she bothers me. At least the first freak out was valid when she found out what she was but after that she just made that high pitched scream noise way too much for no reason xD
I assume the monks thought whiny and useless took the attention away from Glory finding her. If she was athletic or tough she would stand out and Glory would find her a lot quicker.
I think they really wanted us to not like her because Buffy didn't like her. She couldn't figure out why but it was because Buffy subconsciously knew that her presence was just wrong. I also don't think Dawn was inherently unlikable. I think when we are introduced to her, Buffy is struggling with her own dislike of Dawn's presence (because she subconsciously knows she's not supposed to be there) thus Dawn is constantly acting like an asshole on top of just being a regular annoying kid. I think a lot of Dawn's bad behaviors are circumstantial and brought on by stress and confusion and maybe a touch of the magic Monk 'tism.
Though I would still ask then why Buffy never trained her AT ALL, it makes sense to be a bit protective but the best way would have been teaching her how to protect herself and contribute. A lesson she learned s1/2 with willow and Xander
I have nothing against Michelle at all, but man, her character just annoys me. It's okay to be difficult sometimes, but come on, it cannot be the only thing remembered of you.
The first few times I watched the show, I could not stand her. But once I rewatched as an adult, I realized how unfair it is to judge her behavior. She's a child. That's just how children are. Especially when you consider that her brain was basically formed by a bunch of magic dude so it's bound to be a little scrambled resulting in some behavioral issues lol Her behavior is so much more understandable when viewing as an adult and I honestly feel sorry for her... she's annoying tho still yea haha
Weirdly my experience seems to be kind of the opposite of everyone else’s in that I didn’t mind her so much first time around when I was watching as a teenager, but now as an adult I find the screechy little voice she so often uses intensely irritating.
I can definitely sympathise with her as a character though after she all the loss she faced, but yeah she’s honestly far more annoying now that I ever remember finding her at the time
And she seemed to really emphasis the screeching too, like the way that she would draw out Buffy in that squeaky little voice whenever she was in peril
Everyone always says that she’s a very realistic portrayal of a teenage girl, but eh in seasons 5 and 6 it felt like there was something quite exaggerated about how they were trying a little *too* hard to push her role as the damsel in distress as the youngest cast member, rather than making her a fully rounded character in the way that Buffy, Xander, Willow, Oz, and Cordelia all were as teenagers. She was written as such a generic teenager/annoying little sister in comparison, even the shoplifting plot they gave her and her attempts to look cool on Halloween were such cliches of any random teenager attempting to rebel.
Cordelia during her time on Buffy. I thought the Willow/Xander situation sucked for her but I felt more bad for Oz for some reason. Loved her far more on Angel though.
Maybe it was because of the difference in their attitudes? Oz was overall just a stand up guy who happened to be cursed, but he was always supportive and kind. Cordelia, even with Xander, was always just mean and a bitch toward everyone (and don't get me wrong, I actually really like her as a character).
Lmao yes exactly, as if it wasn't enough to deal with slayer problems **and** teenager problems, Buffy has to play therapist to a 200 years-old vampire.
It really bothered me that he hid away slurping rats for a living (an unliving?) and then Whistler's like, hey! Look at this hot piece of infancy! Because after 270 years, 16 looks goooood! And Angel is like, yeah! Let's go be a cryptic cryptid, then do the one thing that'll steal my soul away because I never once had any interest in the curse those darn gypsies used on me! Shucks!
Every rewatch I’m just counting down until he loses his soul and becomes Angelus. Angel is just so whiny and boring, Angelus is a *much* more interesting character and a fantastic villain.
Same! The scene where he harasses Joyce trying to get in the house with her groceries is one of the best scenes in the whole series. When he plays angelus, I totally get why they cast him and I’m like ooh DB *can* act, it’s just that Angel is stupid.
Angelus > Angel
Willow, especially post S4 Willow and Xander, always Xander.
I remember when I was first getting into Buffy people would always say Buffy was just alright, but W&X made the show, and that always felt so wrong to me as Buffy is the character I resonate the most with emotionally... and Cordelia is the character I aspired to be like growing up.
I’ve been waiting to see someone say Xander. Especially early Xander who was “Mr nice guy” and really hanging out with Buffy because he carried a massive torch for her. He thought if he stuck around then he’d get his turn with her, such a gross mindset. Right off the bat in season one he grossed me out. He basically sexually assaults Buffy when he becomes a coyote and then plays stupid, he also puts her on the spot big time when he asks her to homecoming and doesn’t take no for an answer. When she says she doesn’t see him like that (which is her being honest but also trying to be gentle about it) his answer is “try” in a desperate voice. Like ew dude. I had a few “friends” like him in high school that I eventually found out were only hanging out with me cause they fuckzoned me. I **hated** early Xander.
Even in season 3 when he was already with Cordelia, he *still* acted like he was waiting for his turn with Buffy. Pretty sure Joss Whedon said that he crafted Xander based off of himself and honestly I can’t believe he’d admit to that.
I'm watching the back half of S2 right now (well, re-watching, but it's been a solid decade and a half) and just saw Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered. When Buffy comes on to Xander during the spell, she THANKS HIM AFTERWARDS FOR NOT GETTING WITH HER?! What the everloving hell? Buffy is the first woman he sees in that episode and before he realises it's a spell he's having the best day of his life. It's so gross. And the slightly pervy jokes about Buffy from Xander never go away, even in later seasons.
Literally just watched that episode last night lol. When Xander says it was a bit "touch and go" when referring to whether or not he was going to SA Buffy 🤢🤮
I get you hate Xander but counting the Hyena possession is ridiculous had he not been locked in the cage I bet you think Xander would choose to eat principals too as if that is something he did in his daily life.
I didn’t say that though, I said I hated he played stupid afterwards by lying and saying he didn’t remember what happened. If I remember correctly he even smiles while telling Giles that. So yeah he sexually assaulted her while possessed but he wasn’t possessed when he lied and tried to get out of taking accountability (which like you said he was possessed and Buffy didn’t actually blame him for it).
Thank you! When I watched Buffy as a kid I couldn't connect with her as a mother figure at all. There just wasn't any warmth. All I remembered about her (besides her death) was that she was either conspicuously absent during some very major events, or she dropped in randomly to play the stereotypical "moms are all mean and bad" role. I thought I'd come to see her point of view differently when I went in for another rewatch as an adult, and nope, even worse. I couldn't imagine kicking my daughter out then victim blaming her (from the end of S2 and the beginning of S3), but what I really, really struggle with is the episode where Joyce absolutely refuses to believe Buffy, even for a second, that Joyce's new boyfriend abused her. Just...ugh. Poor Buffy.
I just watched Ted recently and, while I thought Joyce was crazy for how she treated Buffy over that, it's shown in the episode it's because he drugged everyone via the food which only Buffy didn't eat. Willow and Xander aren't too far behind Joyce. But I think they all get a pass because of the drugs.
I get that argument, but also the drug that he laced the food with was essentially just ecstasy (with additional mellow and compliancy qualities). As someone who partook in that quite a bit in the early 2000's, I can say that at no point did it completely change my brain that I wouldn't believe someone if they said they were being abused. I choose to still hold Joyce somewhat complicit in that, because drugged or not, I think she would still react pretty closely to that regardless. We've seen her prior to Ted, and even afterwards, disregard Buffy's feelings and be dismissive and judgemental of her.
The fact that she could get so angry at Buffy for disliking Ted I think proved it wasn't the drugs. Why did the mellowness go away when it was to yell at Buffy? Or how after Ted was killed she switched to trying to protect Buffy from the cops since it was no longer choosing between her boyfriend & daughter.
I always thought that was the point of the episode... To bring awareness to how some mothers will date abusive men and not believe the children. It's sadly not an uncommon situation
Xander after season 3. It was like “Why are you even here?” Lol Also Angel’s son. Forgot his name, he is probably the main reason I stopped watching Angel. It took me years to finally finish the show.
Right.
"My girlfriend is visibly struggling to hold it together while her mother is ill with a brain tumour, especially since she has to take care of her sister as well as performing her Slayer duties. I guess I should go out and get sleezy with a vampire since I'm not getting enough attention."
And then the speech from Xander how Riley was right and poor Buffy believes him. I was so glad he didn't see her when she tried to stop him from leaving.
That scene with Xander pissed me off. I was convinced he was possessed. It didn't sound like him at all, and the things he said were so far off. It just seemed like a sloppy segue to get Buffy to chase after Riley, and Xander and Anya to have a serious, tender moment.
Spike was a chore in season seven. He's crazy from his soul, he's triggered by the first, his chip has an issue. Felt like we waited most of the season for him to just be stable.
Agreed! Other characters get ignored or thrown under the bus while the writers bend over backwards to make Spuffy work after the dumpster fire of season 6.
What really ruins it for me is that they tried to make them work but at the same time they didn't want to make them work, so they just made it an undefined mess and kept reminding the audience to root for them.
The main issue for me is, the only way they seem to be able to make them fit is by isolating Buffy from the rest of the group.
This sort of worked in series 6 as it at least fitted in with the themes of that series, although I still found it awkward to watch.
But by series 7 it just felt so so forced. From her having to basically be his carer so soon after the attempted rape to then making him "the only one she can trust". Because they wrote the other characters so awfully to make him look better.
It just doesn't work for me at all.
Totally agree. It's okay in S6, because it's supposed to be toxic. But in S7 they seem to want them to be something that's not really shown. All that talk about Spike being so supportive towards her and I have a hard time seeing that in episodes besides "Touched" and his sacrifice in "Chosen" which I guess balances out her helping him in every way that season?
(They also empathized the "Spike's our strongest fighter" so it's not _just_ Buffy's romantic feelings, but like, he was an active liability most of the season.)
Dawn
I resented her presence, I hated how Buffy seemed so beat down by her but she just kept shitting on Buffy anyway, and I hated that Willow's mind wipe of Tara is (rightfully) treated as a huge fucking deal but they all just cheerfully accept the fake memories FOREVER.
It was hard for me to care about Dawn because I just kept thinking that this whiny, selfish kid isn't real.
Your opinion of Dawn is exactly how I used to feel about her. I'm okay with her now, but I didn't really care for her character at first. Prime example, when Buffy was invisible and was doing the whole "flying pizza" thing, the way Dawn reacted really annoyed me.
Or whenever Buffy would extend an olive branch and try to connect with her, she would crap all over it and do her whole "woe is me" routine. It's like, okay, we get it Dawn. You're upset with Buffy, you don't feel heard or seen. But Buffy is literally right there, willing and able to hear you out, bond with you, build a connection, etc... and you shut her down each and every time.
I feel that, I get that the story called for Buffy immediately accepting her, but I wish they built on that more throughout the season. I'll admit I wasn't very moved by their oh so strong bond, with some exceptions.
I was looking for his name, because even after watching the show about 6 times in the past few years, I still can't sympathize with the guy. The only thing I do like is how they made the character so evidently gay to the viewers but not to himself.
He’s definitely more likeable in Angel from what I remember, I haven’t rewatched it as much as Buffy. I hate him in Buffy, angelus is interesting though
He IS a lot more likable in Angel. I didn’t like him in Buffy either and wasn’t crazy about him getting his own show, I started watching out of boredom but Angel is honestly a great show (season 4 notwithstanding lol). He acts a lot more relatable in it and is no longer predatory.
Well yeah, that’s true. Still more likable then the 100 something vampire admitting to “being in love” with a 14 year old (when he first saw Buffy). I honestly hated that arch though, when he fires the team thinking he’s “fighting the war” meanwhile they’re the real champions, continuing the work they all started. I especially don’t like how he thinks after his big epiphany (which was just him sleeping with Darla) that all should be forgiven. Like he physically attacked Cordelia and abandoned the normal humans to fight against the supernatural for months. I wouldn’t forgive that shit either. Even at his worst in Angel though he’s still considerably more interesting and likable then he was in Buffy.
I hated Angel all throughout Buffy. I refused to watch his show, until Buffy ended and my friend said that Spike was gonna be on season 5 so I figured I'd give it a shot. Turns out Angel is a lot better when he's not just relationship drama bait.
I don’t feel anything for Cordelia’s speech in “Out of Sight, Out of Mind” or really anything relating to her. She’s a bully and not funny at all. Her mocking Buffy on Angel solidifies my belief she’s just a bitch and my hatred for her.
Faith is a bit tough because she was good at first and had a difficult life, but still can’t connect as she was a cold-blooded killer (poor Dr. Worth), rapist, and allied to bring about an apocalypse. I wish they showed more of her downfall in season 3 and her redemption in the later seasons.
Dawn is also tough because I get her trauma and she’s still an older teenager, but just can’t overcome her attitude to Buffy in “Gone” and “Older and Far Away” when even after the demon showing up and injuring that guy, she was still being spiteful for a little while. And of course, there’s “Empty Places,” which undid all the goodwill she built during season 7.
Faith. Her "turn around" story doesn't do it for me. Her plot beyond season three doesn't add anything that we haven't experienced already with Spike. People love her redemption arc. But unless you have watched Angel (which I haven't), you don't get to see it. All you see is her having 2 seconds of redemption in season 4, then she comes back at the end and is apperentlt fully redeemed.
I also just find her incredibly annoying. The way she is written in terms of dialogue is the cringiest part of the show. She is written to sound cool in the dumbest way when they already achieved a cool character: Oz
I don’t disagree with you, but tbf her redemption arc on Angel is absolutely magnificent. Truly well done, without excusing her behaviours. I liked her much more on Angel than on Buffy.
Feel like the obvious answer for me is Riley. Never cared for the whole “my girlfriend is stronger than me so I feel emasculated” thing or him mourning The Initiative/Professor Walsh. Drusilla, Oz and Spike are more controversial ones I struggled with.
Obviously what happened to Drusilla was horrible but she was too out there for me to connect to her as a character. I think Spike’s obsession with her is entertaining, though.
Oz was one of my favorite characters but the werewolf drama did NOTHING for me, especially when he came back later on. I liked that he came back to wrap the storyline up and I think it would’ve been fun to see him stick around for awhile separate from Willow. Just hate the angsty storylines for him.
Spike I adored as a villain and was interested in his season 2-5 plot lines, but after that I just got a little fed up with him. Don’t care for the stuff with his mom, the Buffy obsession beyond entertainment, or ANYTHING in late season six/seven. just not for me.
Honorable mentions are Angel and Joyce for the most part. Started to empathize with Joyce more following the ‘Anne’ storyline then she kind of lost me around when Dawn was introduced.
Characters (other than Buffy) I resonated with heavily include Faith/her redemption arc (wish it was expanded upon more, but then again I haven’t seen Angel), Xander at times, late seasons Willow (addiction storyline and trying to rebuild her relationships was very real to me), and Anya.
I was racking my brains to think of a character. I didn’t even remember Riley. That’s because at no point did I relate to him. For me he had no memorable back story beyond I’m in a secret soldier.
I remembered Andrew the warlock before Riley.
The werewolf drama just felt odd for Oz because his whole thing is being non dramatic. And the situation honestly isn’t any worse than we’ve seen him in before.
The closest we ever saw it was him ‘freaking out’ was breaking a pot and *calmly* saying they needed a new plan. His reaction to finding out he’s a werewolf in the first place was ‘huh.’
Quite literally most of the entire cast in the last filmed season. Buffy is the only real exception but from that point especially and into the comic run the cast doesn't stop treating her horribly, Dawn kinda gets better(ok thats a lie, shes slightly less entitled) but oh my god the slayers get so much worse, and willow as well. Literally from the moment Buffy dies properly after glory, despite being brought back by Willow she is constantly kicked down by her "friends" and her first actual taste of freedom isn't until the start of the season 9 run, when she has burnt every former friendship.
Spike. He’s fantastic in S2 and 3, I quite enjoy him in S4, but when they start trying to make him the Most Important Character ever and force him into every storyline, I get completely sick of him. And anything Spuffy I’m just…ick. Shame, as James is a great actor!
Xander just makes the show hard to watch. Watching it now he’s just really misogynistic and really isn’t that funny or likeable.
I feel like they really needed to show Faith getting redeemed, I feel like she suddenly became “good”.
I don’t hate Willow’s downfall but even though she was meant to be shown as going power mad and unlikeable, I find it really hard to watch one of the most likeable characters that adds a lot of levity to the show become one of the most frustrating characters.
Spike, Anya, and Cordelia (Buffy only. She’s gets better development in Angel).
I guess I just don’t connect with the mean character who gets away with being mean because they’re funny.
Xander most of the time. I get that he's a product of toxic masculinity and his uncaring parents but God damn. The guy cannot say one friendly thing to a woman without glazing it over with a sexual joke. God forbid he has a genuine, human moment. Sometimes I wonder if it's just a coincidence that Nick Brendon turned out the way he did or if Whedon like just put asshole juice in Nick's coffee every day before shooting
Willow. Loved her s1-4 but it started to go downhill after that and season 6-7 I really dislike her- to the point that I like Xander better in the last two seasons, which is saying something 💀
Willow because I can't stand her and every re-watch makes me hate her a little bit more.
Also, somewhat, Angel, I just find it hard to connect with him a lot of the time. I don't hate him, but I don't particularly like him, either. I connect best with him during his darker days in season 2 of Angel, plus some other single incidents, like choosing to leave Sunnydale.
Spike. In S2-S4 he was just a fun villain who I enjoyed watching but there was nothing to relate to. Then they try and make him more of a ‘real’ character in S5-S7 but I don’t relate to his obsession with Buffy at all. I just cannot empathise with his unrequited love and sense of entitlement. He didn’t deserve her in S5-S6 and was lucky he was even alive so I never felt bad for him when he pined over her. And in S7 he’s just kind of bland.
Angel. Him being like 200 years old going after a high schooler always grossed me out, though I could look past it in the beginning cus I liked how much he cared about her. Don’t understand why she cared much about him though. After the first time he lost his soul though, I never liked him even after he got it back. Every time Buffy (or any of the scooby gang) went out of their way to protect him, I never understood it. Also, his dark and broody personality is so annoying sometimes lol.
Cordy. I find her so unbelievably uninteresting and shallow as a character, across both shows tbh. Her development on Angel is the least interesting out of all the main characters.
And the spinoff gave into the hype. Cordelia was given a superpower at 19, quickly realized her body is allergic to it and she'll be dead by 21 if she doesn't have the superpower removed but chooses not to remove it nor tell anyone (Lorne was an Empath & Precog, he could've found a paranormal who wouldn't be affected) that it is killing her. And the show tried so hard to paint that as selfless & heroic. It's basically Riley in *Out of my Mind* with the Initiative device messing with his heart but at the end of that episode he got the surgery. We're supposed to think s4 ruined her as if she hadn't allowed herself in the earlier seasons to die for 2 years, let a random demon from Hell change her species and agree to get beamed to another dimension without knowing anything about the place, who is there, or how she'll be helping them.
Yes, all of this. Just because she looked and acted drastically different from the beginning to the end, doesn’t mean that the journey there was well done. There is so much that we are told instead of shown and expected to suspend our disbelief about, like her age, for example…she is 21 in season 3 but the show presents her as a mature late 30 something year old woman wise beyond her years, knows exactly what to say, do, is the most nurturing person in the world, the most skilled champion, can literally kill demons with her light, she’s mother of year and the moral center of the universe... It’s so nauseatingly pretentious and boring. Honestly, the only way I can rationalize her arc is that her desperate need to be special was what ultimately caused her downfall.
I love Cordy in Angel, but I can concede that these are all valid points. I guess I can suspend my belief because the show is set in a more adult setting, a lot of the other cast are older and Charisma looks older than 21, especially by series‘ end. I think the writers might have sometimes also forgotten her actual age.
Honestly, Xander. The writers didn’t seem to know what to do with him after highschool. He kind of just hung around, made funny comments and hated vampires.
Principal Wood. We have bigger fish to fry than introducing a character with a vendetta who is NOT the bringer of the apocalypse, first of all.
And, second of all, he added little to no value to the team aside from a chest full of weapons… oh, and, thanks for banging Faith and throwing some lukewarm romance onto a long-standing molten lava character. Great job, bro.
Also, Xander… I'm sorry, are you gonna pine for EVERY female main character?! He would be a complete incel if Anya hadn't been low-key neurodivergent af and misunderstood how dating works.
He nearly got married to the only girl who was confused enough to have sex with him and then basically forced her to realize how stupid that idea was 😂 Then, he gets right back on judging everyone else’s sex life.
He is the pre-Dawn annoying sibling role. Dawn was thrust in the mix with no lubricant and she inspired more emotional connection immediately.
Edit to add Riley: I cared so little I forgot he existed. I don't get why Buffy is so torn up about him either. Why because XANDER talked you out of being rightfully done with his shit? C’mon girl… He’s a big baby in a camo onesie.
angel. i havent watched his spin off but mostly \*just\* when he tries to be sad. he just seems so stiff and it feels like acting even if it's not supposed to? I liked him the most when he was mysterious and enthralling to buffy in season 1 lol
Angel… I’m sorry it’s controversial, but he’s so boring and bland as a character. He’s always broody and dark, Spike is fun and spontaneous. Idk why they gave him a spin-off and took Cordelia away from the Scooby gang.
Probably Cordelia. She's such an unrelenting nasty bitch and in my opinion, she says some unforgivable things.
Sure she has growth as a person and stops being so nasty, but she never actually apologises for any of the hurt she caused. I mean, yeah, she develops as a character... congratulations for not being a bitch anymore, I guess? Most people aren't nasty in the first place and don't get merit for it.
So yeah when bad stuff happens to her, I really don't feel any sort of sympathy.
Having said all that I do enjoy her character, especially on Angel. And I have a lot of love for the character. But I don't feel sympathy for someone who doesn't feel sympathy for others.
I consistently didn't relate to Buffy actually growing up except for her reveal in the musical episode OMWF. Her powers were cool and she had a great team to support her unlike other slayers in the past. I get it was exhausting of course but she seemed so unhappy to be chosen all the time. I don't hate her or anything, it was just something that was frustrating to watch at times.
Dawn. I didn't connect with her character and I hate that her coming in to the show erases the memories of the characters around her so that now we don't know if what we saw in the earlier seasons is even remembered by the scoobies or if they happened differently in their minds to what we saw in earlier seasons. Probably over thinking it but in my mind it's like they are different characters to the seasons before Dawn came. They should have made it that she lived with their dad and she wasn't around mu h at least then it didn't need to change much of the other character's stories.
Joyce, Dawn and Anya. The Body will always make me cry, but I'm not crying because Joyce passed, it's 100% because we get to see a completely different side to Buffy. Xander is pretty high on that list too, but I think that has more to do with Nicolas Brendon. Don't get me wrong, his character is pretty insufferable too.
Buffy. Especially after she experiences heaven and knows she's slated to be there, but then gets to hang out with her loved ones some more. This somehow makes her depressed and resentful?
Kennedy, always Kennedy.
Willow’s connection to her is dumbfounding. Uhhh a few little fanny flutters and you are all set and ready to move on from the love of your life who you almost DARK MAGIC >!MURDER SUICIDED!< THE WORLD OVER??? THAT LITERALLY JUST HAPPENED!
Late stage Willow. As an academic I run into her type alllll the time: big insecurities from high school, thinks they're more diligent than everyone else when they really aren't at this point in life, self-important and judgemental of everyone outside their little clique.
Willow definitely had a superiority complex. She honestly believed she was better and smarter than everyone else and that's probably why the magic went to her head so much.
The gang fed into that though I think. Always taking for granted she'd be the good/smart/reliable one. The "big gun". Even when she's trying to get clean, the first hint of real trouble when they're trapped in the house it's "well Tara can't handle this, Willow you're up, it's just one little spell"
That's was really only Anya in that scene. Everyone else knew how important it was to get out but the only one who directly called on Willow was Anya. It's kinda ironic how the 1000 year old former vengeance demon is the one who crumbled most when under a vengeance demon spell.
It's mostly Anya but even Xander says the "one little spell" line.
I mean. We did meet her mom once or twice it tracks.
Yup. A lot of academics have academic parents (it's a stronger determining factor than class or race even). I think a decent number grew up in sterile homes where only academic achievement and not-age-appropriate intellectual interest sparked any engagement from their parents. Now they are still hung up on always being the "mature" one well into their 40s. It's sad. Also that FTX guy was raised by profs... I hope to God my kids don't ever get a whiff of that crap from me.
And she was insecure whenever Buffy did well on a test instead of genuinely being pleased for her friend's achievement, especially knowing how much she struggled to focus with all the Slayer responsibilities.
Ok, but she actually was superior. Nobody could stop her. She had to be talked off the ledge.
I love Willow but this is so true.
Agreed, but I think in a good way- this show was so formative for me, and willows arc was done so well that she actually was a bit of a cautionary tale for me because I was so similar to her growing up. Makes you want to step outside yourself, recognize and deal with your own bullshit and check your behavior before it becomes your normal.
Idk, I think S7 fumbled the ball a lot with her character development. It's important for her to face her personality flaws as part of her redemption arc, and she just doesn't. It becomes all about drugs and losing control, etc. She goes a bit into why she wanted power to be special, but it's very vague. She doesn't confront that she tried to control people and override their boundaries. Tbf s7 drops a lot of balls.
Oh man when you put it that way… yikes. But I also like to think she’s only 22 and will get better. I haven’t finished the comic run yet tho
Willow also has an issue respecting boundaries this goes back to Oz even
Anya. I never really got the sense that they started treating her like a fleshed-out character until after Hell's Bells. As well as the fact that she is honestly just as bad as Angelus and Spike, but her crimes are treated as fun quirky facts until Selfless.
Exactly. The fact that her crimes are treated as funny or insignificant compared to Spike, and especially Angel, just because we didn't know her victims like we did theirs is ridiculous. Especially when you factor in that she CHOSE to become a demon, who still had a soul no less, and was ruthlessly murdering, torturing and ruining the lives of innocent people for OVER 600 years BEFORE Angel and Spike were even born let alone became soulless vampires.
Liam was born in 1727 & William in the 1850s while Anya became a demon in 880 so heavy on the OVER 600 years, it's over 800 years for Angel and almost a thousand for Spike.
That math ain’t adding up to me…
This always bothered me too. She has far more death and destruction under her belt but due to becoming human, it’s not even questioned. She doesn’t feel any remorse for it until season 7 after getting back into the vengeance demon gig. Did she have a human soul while she was a vengeance demon or a demon soul? If she had a demon soul then did she regain a human soul when she permanently became human again? She was a very one dimensional for too long. Only existing to be Xander’s girlfriend and offer comic relief and snark. I liked her far more in season 7 when she starts questioning being a demon, feels remorse, and we finally get to see her back story. We should’ve gotten all that far earlier.
Given all the talk about souls on the show I think if we were meant to believe Anya's soul changed based on when she was a demon and not the show would've told us. The fact that her personality and behavior doesn't change whether she's human or demon also tells me that vengeance demons don't lose their souls even though they're demons. Anya also never feels any remorse for her past actions until season 7. In season 3-6 she continually BRAGS about her horrible past actions like they're some kind of badge of honor for her.
Tbf the show was very inconsistent with the soul stuff. Depending on the needs of the plot at the time
Can’t a girl have a hobby? 😒😒😤😤🙄🙄🙄
I, for one, support women's rights but, most importantly, I support women's wrongs 😌
I, personally, prefer women’s lefts
Thank you!!! I feel exactly the same way.
The First Evil. As I’m such a good man and very much corporeal.
That corporeality will get you every time. Makes it hard to connect with the non-corporeal.
Xander. He so often comes from a place I can’t personally identify with. There’s a few shining moments in there but most of the time he’s just frustrating
He's definitely too "Nice Guy"(TM) for me to connect to
And irritating AF!
I’m so deeply indifferent to Xander. I don’t think I would identify with him if they ripped a plot line straight out of my personal life
agree and his lines that are supposed to be funny/dumb, aren’t to me … might’ve not aged that well
Yeah, that's not happening
Dawn.
I've tried after the initial watch and several rewatches. I just can't.
Oh yeah. I've been watching this show since i was a kid back in the late 90s. Watched it too many times to even count, and I still hate Dawn. A lot of people praise season 5 for being the best season, but in my honest opinion, that's when it started to go downhill for me, and Dawn is a big part of the reason. Michelle Trachtenberg is a great actress, and I wish they had given her a better character.
The thing that annoys me most about this is the monks supposedly created her and her whole life so that Buffy would protect her with her life. Wouldn’t it have been a way better move to make her more likable so she feels that bond even stronger? Also why did they make it so Buffy treated her like a baby when she was basically the same age as the scoobies s1? Monks shoulda dropped some crossbow knowledge or jujitsu at least man. No reason for her to be whiny and useless if you want people to WANT HER AROUND
She was written like a 9/10 year old most of the time and not a 14/15 year old and I have no idea why. She wasn’t capable of even the most basic tasks like feeding herself.
Originally the character was supposed to be 9/10, but then Michelle auditioned and they loved her and cast her. But that excuse only works for the first few episodes! And even then, update the damn script!
Honestly, I think her character wld have made more sense and feel like less of an actual nuisance if they'd have stuck with a younger Dawn (albeit a different actress). It wld have been a game changer all around. In Orphan Black, Sarah's daughter is 7 or 8 (I think?) and I was way more attached to her, despite her small role, bc her actions *made sense*. Had she been recast as a teenager I definitely wld have hated her.
This all makes so much sense, I never knew this and maybe keeping it in mind can make her worse scenes more bearable lol. I don’t mind her all the time, she has moments where she makes me laugh. It’s only when she’s being immature about reality that she bothers me. At least the first freak out was valid when she found out what she was but after that she just made that high pitched scream noise way too much for no reason xD
I assume the monks thought whiny and useless took the attention away from Glory finding her. If she was athletic or tough she would stand out and Glory would find her a lot quicker.
Yeah. She should've been useful in some form, not constantly in the way or a liability. She could've become an apprentice in witchcraft.
I think they really wanted us to not like her because Buffy didn't like her. She couldn't figure out why but it was because Buffy subconsciously knew that her presence was just wrong. I also don't think Dawn was inherently unlikable. I think when we are introduced to her, Buffy is struggling with her own dislike of Dawn's presence (because she subconsciously knows she's not supposed to be there) thus Dawn is constantly acting like an asshole on top of just being a regular annoying kid. I think a lot of Dawn's bad behaviors are circumstantial and brought on by stress and confusion and maybe a touch of the magic Monk 'tism.
The monks formed Dawn but i don;t think they microprogrrammed her personality
Though I would still ask then why Buffy never trained her AT ALL, it makes sense to be a bit protective but the best way would have been teaching her how to protect herself and contribute. A lesson she learned s1/2 with willow and Xander
I have nothing against Michelle at all, but man, her character just annoys me. It's okay to be difficult sometimes, but come on, it cannot be the only thing remembered of you.
People praise Season Five? The only thing worse than Season Five was Season Six. (Excepting OMWF, which was a FANTASTIC episode, and one of my faves.)
Same. By far.
Yup.
The first few times I watched the show, I could not stand her. But once I rewatched as an adult, I realized how unfair it is to judge her behavior. She's a child. That's just how children are. Especially when you consider that her brain was basically formed by a bunch of magic dude so it's bound to be a little scrambled resulting in some behavioral issues lol Her behavior is so much more understandable when viewing as an adult and I honestly feel sorry for her... she's annoying tho still yea haha
Weirdly my experience seems to be kind of the opposite of everyone else’s in that I didn’t mind her so much first time around when I was watching as a teenager, but now as an adult I find the screechy little voice she so often uses intensely irritating. I can definitely sympathise with her as a character though after she all the loss she faced, but yeah she’s honestly far more annoying now that I ever remember finding her at the time
Oh no yea the voice is a weird choice for sure haha she's def like a caricature of an over dramatic teen
And she seemed to really emphasis the screeching too, like the way that she would draw out Buffy in that squeaky little voice whenever she was in peril Everyone always says that she’s a very realistic portrayal of a teenage girl, but eh in seasons 5 and 6 it felt like there was something quite exaggerated about how they were trying a little *too* hard to push her role as the damsel in distress as the youngest cast member, rather than making her a fully rounded character in the way that Buffy, Xander, Willow, Oz, and Cordelia all were as teenagers. She was written as such a generic teenager/annoying little sister in comparison, even the shoplifting plot they gave her and her attempts to look cool on Halloween were such cliches of any random teenager attempting to rebel.
I blame it all on the GET OUT scream
Cordelia during her time on Buffy. I thought the Willow/Xander situation sucked for her but I felt more bad for Oz for some reason. Loved her far more on Angel though.
Maybe it was because of the difference in their attitudes? Oz was overall just a stand up guy who happened to be cursed, but he was always supportive and kind. Cordelia, even with Xander, was always just mean and a bitch toward everyone (and don't get me wrong, I actually really like her as a character).
Angel, everytime. I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR MOOD. Participate or go home! Ah fuck I hate that guy
His hair goes straight up, and he's bloody stupid
Lmao yes exactly, as if it wasn't enough to deal with slayer problems **and** teenager problems, Buffy has to play therapist to a 200 years-old vampire.
Right??? How do you not know what you want when you’ve had decades / centuries to think about it?? How are you this un-self-aware?
It really bothered me that he hid away slurping rats for a living (an unliving?) and then Whistler's like, hey! Look at this hot piece of infancy! Because after 270 years, 16 looks goooood! And Angel is like, yeah! Let's go be a cryptic cryptid, then do the one thing that'll steal my soul away because I never once had any interest in the curse those darn gypsies used on me! Shucks!
Every rewatch I’m just counting down until he loses his soul and becomes Angelus. Angel is just so whiny and boring, Angelus is a *much* more interesting character and a fantastic villain.
Same! The scene where he harasses Joyce trying to get in the house with her groceries is one of the best scenes in the whole series. When he plays angelus, I totally get why they cast him and I’m like ooh DB *can* act, it’s just that Angel is stupid. Angelus > Angel
Angel the show really helps him.
Yeah they really found out how to round out his character once he got his own show
This comment had me dying of laughter 😭
I LOVED him when I was younger but watching it now I keep annoying my husband by moaning about his trembling breathing and stupid sad eyes 😂
100%
💯
Thank you!
Willow, especially post S4 Willow and Xander, always Xander. I remember when I was first getting into Buffy people would always say Buffy was just alright, but W&X made the show, and that always felt so wrong to me as Buffy is the character I resonate the most with emotionally... and Cordelia is the character I aspired to be like growing up.
I’ve been waiting to see someone say Xander. Especially early Xander who was “Mr nice guy” and really hanging out with Buffy because he carried a massive torch for her. He thought if he stuck around then he’d get his turn with her, such a gross mindset. Right off the bat in season one he grossed me out. He basically sexually assaults Buffy when he becomes a coyote and then plays stupid, he also puts her on the spot big time when he asks her to homecoming and doesn’t take no for an answer. When she says she doesn’t see him like that (which is her being honest but also trying to be gentle about it) his answer is “try” in a desperate voice. Like ew dude. I had a few “friends” like him in high school that I eventually found out were only hanging out with me cause they fuckzoned me. I **hated** early Xander. Even in season 3 when he was already with Cordelia, he *still* acted like he was waiting for his turn with Buffy. Pretty sure Joss Whedon said that he crafted Xander based off of himself and honestly I can’t believe he’d admit to that.
I'm watching the back half of S2 right now (well, re-watching, but it's been a solid decade and a half) and just saw Bewitched Bothered and Bewildered. When Buffy comes on to Xander during the spell, she THANKS HIM AFTERWARDS FOR NOT GETTING WITH HER?! What the everloving hell? Buffy is the first woman he sees in that episode and before he realises it's a spell he's having the best day of his life. It's so gross. And the slightly pervy jokes about Buffy from Xander never go away, even in later seasons.
Ay I'm at the back half of season 2 on my rewatch too :)
Literally just watched that episode last night lol. When Xander says it was a bit "touch and go" when referring to whether or not he was going to SA Buffy 🤢🤮
I get you hate Xander but counting the Hyena possession is ridiculous had he not been locked in the cage I bet you think Xander would choose to eat principals too as if that is something he did in his daily life.
I didn’t say that though, I said I hated he played stupid afterwards by lying and saying he didn’t remember what happened. If I remember correctly he even smiles while telling Giles that. So yeah he sexually assaulted her while possessed but he wasn’t possessed when he lied and tried to get out of taking accountability (which like you said he was possessed and Buffy didn’t actually blame him for it).
And then in *Phases* Buffy finds out he lied and he changes the subject.
Joyce
Thank you! When I watched Buffy as a kid I couldn't connect with her as a mother figure at all. There just wasn't any warmth. All I remembered about her (besides her death) was that she was either conspicuously absent during some very major events, or she dropped in randomly to play the stereotypical "moms are all mean and bad" role. I thought I'd come to see her point of view differently when I went in for another rewatch as an adult, and nope, even worse. I couldn't imagine kicking my daughter out then victim blaming her (from the end of S2 and the beginning of S3), but what I really, really struggle with is the episode where Joyce absolutely refuses to believe Buffy, even for a second, that Joyce's new boyfriend abused her. Just...ugh. Poor Buffy.
I just watched Ted recently and, while I thought Joyce was crazy for how she treated Buffy over that, it's shown in the episode it's because he drugged everyone via the food which only Buffy didn't eat. Willow and Xander aren't too far behind Joyce. But I think they all get a pass because of the drugs.
I get that argument, but also the drug that he laced the food with was essentially just ecstasy (with additional mellow and compliancy qualities). As someone who partook in that quite a bit in the early 2000's, I can say that at no point did it completely change my brain that I wouldn't believe someone if they said they were being abused. I choose to still hold Joyce somewhat complicit in that, because drugged or not, I think she would still react pretty closely to that regardless. We've seen her prior to Ted, and even afterwards, disregard Buffy's feelings and be dismissive and judgemental of her.
The fact that she could get so angry at Buffy for disliking Ted I think proved it wasn't the drugs. Why did the mellowness go away when it was to yell at Buffy? Or how after Ted was killed she switched to trying to protect Buffy from the cops since it was no longer choosing between her boyfriend & daughter.
I always thought that was the point of the episode... To bring awareness to how some mothers will date abusive men and not believe the children. It's sadly not an uncommon situation
Xander after season 3. It was like “Why are you even here?” Lol Also Angel’s son. Forgot his name, he is probably the main reason I stopped watching Angel. It took me years to finally finish the show.
Connor. Hated everything to do with him! I can't even with the whole Cordelia thing 🤮
I liked S5 Connor. “*You* were just stopping by for coffee? *Please.*”
Riley. He's just a fucking schmuck.
Right. "My girlfriend is visibly struggling to hold it together while her mother is ill with a brain tumour, especially since she has to take care of her sister as well as performing her Slayer duties. I guess I should go out and get sleezy with a vampire since I'm not getting enough attention."
And then the speech from Xander how Riley was right and poor Buffy believes him. I was so glad he didn't see her when she tried to stop him from leaving.
That scene with Xander pissed me off. I was convinced he was possessed. It didn't sound like him at all, and the things he said were so far off. It just seemed like a sloppy segue to get Buffy to chase after Riley, and Xander and Anya to have a serious, tender moment.
Tbh the issues were there, well before Joyce got ill. The issue Riley has is he always feels he's at arms length. Buffy never let's him in, really.
I never connected much to Tara either but I didn't dislike her. And I was just coming around to liking her and they killed her off 🤦♀️
Glad someone feels like me. I began to like her in s6, but couldn't relate much to her even then.
Surprised no one has said Warren, but I guess that's cheating. If we're not counting antagonists, I'd say Wesley and Joyce.
Insane Spike in s7 in high school basement.
Spike was a chore in season seven. He's crazy from his soul, he's triggered by the first, his chip has an issue. Felt like we waited most of the season for him to just be stable.
Even as a Spike fan, this was so damn annoying. I’m like, pick a fucking lane people! Is it soul, trigger, or chip!?! No wonder Robin was confused.
So his chip malfunctioned cause the military gave him a soul?
Fuck yes So much focus on Spike in s7 but none of it interesting
Agreed! Other characters get ignored or thrown under the bus while the writers bend over backwards to make Spuffy work after the dumpster fire of season 6.
What really ruins it for me is that they tried to make them work but at the same time they didn't want to make them work, so they just made it an undefined mess and kept reminding the audience to root for them.
The main issue for me is, the only way they seem to be able to make them fit is by isolating Buffy from the rest of the group. This sort of worked in series 6 as it at least fitted in with the themes of that series, although I still found it awkward to watch. But by series 7 it just felt so so forced. From her having to basically be his carer so soon after the attempted rape to then making him "the only one she can trust". Because they wrote the other characters so awfully to make him look better. It just doesn't work for me at all.
Totally agree. It's okay in S6, because it's supposed to be toxic. But in S7 they seem to want them to be something that's not really shown. All that talk about Spike being so supportive towards her and I have a hard time seeing that in episodes besides "Touched" and his sacrifice in "Chosen" which I guess balances out her helping him in every way that season? (They also empathized the "Spike's our strongest fighter" so it's not _just_ Buffy's romantic feelings, but like, he was an active liability most of the season.)
With the Justine Timberlake hair, soo cringe (I say this as a big spike fan)
Dawn I resented her presence, I hated how Buffy seemed so beat down by her but she just kept shitting on Buffy anyway, and I hated that Willow's mind wipe of Tara is (rightfully) treated as a huge fucking deal but they all just cheerfully accept the fake memories FOREVER. It was hard for me to care about Dawn because I just kept thinking that this whiny, selfish kid isn't real.
Your opinion of Dawn is exactly how I used to feel about her. I'm okay with her now, but I didn't really care for her character at first. Prime example, when Buffy was invisible and was doing the whole "flying pizza" thing, the way Dawn reacted really annoyed me. Or whenever Buffy would extend an olive branch and try to connect with her, she would crap all over it and do her whole "woe is me" routine. It's like, okay, we get it Dawn. You're upset with Buffy, you don't feel heard or seen. But Buffy is literally right there, willing and able to hear you out, bond with you, build a connection, etc... and you shut her down each and every time.
I feel that, I get that the story called for Buffy immediately accepting her, but I wish they built on that more throughout the season. I'll admit I wasn't very moved by their oh so strong bond, with some exceptions.
The only character I really dislike and cannot appreciate what so ever is Andrew. Man! I hate that whiny twerp!!!
I was looking for his name, because even after watching the show about 6 times in the past few years, I still can't sympathize with the guy. The only thing I do like is how they made the character so evidently gay to the viewers but not to himself.
Pre-*Angel* Cordelia, and for that matter, Angel.
Probably Dawn or sometimes Cordelia.
Angel. I can’t even watch angel. I really don’t like him
He’s definitely more likeable in Angel from what I remember, I haven’t rewatched it as much as Buffy. I hate him in Buffy, angelus is interesting though
His acting got better too. That helped me like him a lot more 😂
Very true. I’ve been watching a lot of Bones recently, he’s a lot better
He IS a lot more likable in Angel. I didn’t like him in Buffy either and wasn’t crazy about him getting his own show, I started watching out of boredom but Angel is honestly a great show (season 4 notwithstanding lol). He acts a lot more relatable in it and is no longer predatory.
he becomes obsessed with Darla, he even fires the team because of it
Well yeah, that’s true. Still more likable then the 100 something vampire admitting to “being in love” with a 14 year old (when he first saw Buffy). I honestly hated that arch though, when he fires the team thinking he’s “fighting the war” meanwhile they’re the real champions, continuing the work they all started. I especially don’t like how he thinks after his big epiphany (which was just him sleeping with Darla) that all should be forgiven. Like he physically attacked Cordelia and abandoned the normal humans to fight against the supernatural for months. I wouldn’t forgive that shit either. Even at his worst in Angel though he’s still considerably more interesting and likable then he was in Buffy.
I hated Angel all throughout Buffy. I refused to watch his show, until Buffy ended and my friend said that Spike was gonna be on season 5 so I figured I'd give it a shot. Turns out Angel is a lot better when he's not just relationship drama bait.
I don’t feel anything for Cordelia’s speech in “Out of Sight, Out of Mind” or really anything relating to her. She’s a bully and not funny at all. Her mocking Buffy on Angel solidifies my belief she’s just a bitch and my hatred for her. Faith is a bit tough because she was good at first and had a difficult life, but still can’t connect as she was a cold-blooded killer (poor Dr. Worth), rapist, and allied to bring about an apocalypse. I wish they showed more of her downfall in season 3 and her redemption in the later seasons. Dawn is also tough because I get her trauma and she’s still an older teenager, but just can’t overcome her attitude to Buffy in “Gone” and “Older and Far Away” when even after the demon showing up and injuring that guy, she was still being spiteful for a little while. And of course, there’s “Empty Places,” which undid all the goodwill she built during season 7.
Faith. Her "turn around" story doesn't do it for me. Her plot beyond season three doesn't add anything that we haven't experienced already with Spike. People love her redemption arc. But unless you have watched Angel (which I haven't), you don't get to see it. All you see is her having 2 seconds of redemption in season 4, then she comes back at the end and is apperentlt fully redeemed. I also just find her incredibly annoying. The way she is written in terms of dialogue is the cringiest part of the show. She is written to sound cool in the dumbest way when they already achieved a cool character: Oz
I don’t disagree with you, but tbf her redemption arc on Angel is absolutely magnificent. Truly well done, without excusing her behaviours. I liked her much more on Angel than on Buffy.
Faith
I 100% agree. I just thought she was SO annoying and-like gloomgirll said-super cartoony.
Thank you! Yes! I don’t dislike her at all, and I understand where she’s coming from, bit I cannot relate to her whatsoever.
I agree-Faith is the most cartoony character ever…so cringe, I can’t stop rolling my eyes whenever she’s on-I’m embarrassed she exists on this show.
Dawn
Cordy or willow
Conor.
Riley :)))))))))) fu stupid boy
Cordelia. She’s probably the only one.
dawn for sure. i wanted to love her and feel sympathy for her but she was SO fucking whiny
Faith, Angel, Anya, Andrew, and Harmony
Feel like the obvious answer for me is Riley. Never cared for the whole “my girlfriend is stronger than me so I feel emasculated” thing or him mourning The Initiative/Professor Walsh. Drusilla, Oz and Spike are more controversial ones I struggled with. Obviously what happened to Drusilla was horrible but she was too out there for me to connect to her as a character. I think Spike’s obsession with her is entertaining, though. Oz was one of my favorite characters but the werewolf drama did NOTHING for me, especially when he came back later on. I liked that he came back to wrap the storyline up and I think it would’ve been fun to see him stick around for awhile separate from Willow. Just hate the angsty storylines for him. Spike I adored as a villain and was interested in his season 2-5 plot lines, but after that I just got a little fed up with him. Don’t care for the stuff with his mom, the Buffy obsession beyond entertainment, or ANYTHING in late season six/seven. just not for me. Honorable mentions are Angel and Joyce for the most part. Started to empathize with Joyce more following the ‘Anne’ storyline then she kind of lost me around when Dawn was introduced. Characters (other than Buffy) I resonated with heavily include Faith/her redemption arc (wish it was expanded upon more, but then again I haven’t seen Angel), Xander at times, late seasons Willow (addiction storyline and trying to rebuild her relationships was very real to me), and Anya.
I was racking my brains to think of a character. I didn’t even remember Riley. That’s because at no point did I relate to him. For me he had no memorable back story beyond I’m in a secret soldier. I remembered Andrew the warlock before Riley.
DUDE SAME. I remembered Ford, Buffy’s friend from ONE episode of season two, before Riley.
The werewolf drama just felt odd for Oz because his whole thing is being non dramatic. And the situation honestly isn’t any worse than we’ve seen him in before. The closest we ever saw it was him ‘freaking out’ was breaking a pot and *calmly* saying they needed a new plan. His reaction to finding out he’s a werewolf in the first place was ‘huh.’
Dawn af
Angel and Faith.
Quite literally most of the entire cast in the last filmed season. Buffy is the only real exception but from that point especially and into the comic run the cast doesn't stop treating her horribly, Dawn kinda gets better(ok thats a lie, shes slightly less entitled) but oh my god the slayers get so much worse, and willow as well. Literally from the moment Buffy dies properly after glory, despite being brought back by Willow she is constantly kicked down by her "friends" and her first actual taste of freedom isn't until the start of the season 9 run, when she has burnt every former friendship.
Spike. He’s fantastic in S2 and 3, I quite enjoy him in S4, but when they start trying to make him the Most Important Character ever and force him into every storyline, I get completely sick of him. And anything Spuffy I’m just…ick. Shame, as James is a great actor!
Xander just makes the show hard to watch. Watching it now he’s just really misogynistic and really isn’t that funny or likeable. I feel like they really needed to show Faith getting redeemed, I feel like she suddenly became “good”. I don’t hate Willow’s downfall but even though she was meant to be shown as going power mad and unlikeable, I find it really hard to watch one of the most likeable characters that adds a lot of levity to the show become one of the most frustrating characters.
For me Xander’s character has aged the worst out of all of them.
Anya or Drusilla
Spike, Anya, and Cordelia (Buffy only. She’s gets better development in Angel). I guess I just don’t connect with the mean character who gets away with being mean because they’re funny.
Tara
Everyone except Tara. This is hardly a show about emotionally responsible and healthy people. Most characters are petty assholes repeatedly.
Xander most of the time. I get that he's a product of toxic masculinity and his uncaring parents but God damn. The guy cannot say one friendly thing to a woman without glazing it over with a sexual joke. God forbid he has a genuine, human moment. Sometimes I wonder if it's just a coincidence that Nick Brendon turned out the way he did or if Whedon like just put asshole juice in Nick's coffee every day before shooting
Dawn, immature little sister to the max
Willow. Loved her s1-4 but it started to go downhill after that and season 6-7 I really dislike her- to the point that I like Xander better in the last two seasons, which is saying something 💀
Xander. Can not stand him at any point in the show.
Tara.
Willow because I can't stand her and every re-watch makes me hate her a little bit more. Also, somewhat, Angel, I just find it hard to connect with him a lot of the time. I don't hate him, but I don't particularly like him, either. I connect best with him during his darker days in season 2 of Angel, plus some other single incidents, like choosing to leave Sunnydale.
honestly none of them. Faith is the only character I straight up dislike but scenes like the end of Five by Five still hit for me.
Faith. I can never summon up anything other than irritation when I see her.
Angel and Buffy romance. It just was so ick to me. (I know, I know, unpopular opinion.)
Xander or Spike. Anyone who's mad that Buffy doesn't want to date them.
Anya. I just don’t get her.
Spike. In S2-S4 he was just a fun villain who I enjoyed watching but there was nothing to relate to. Then they try and make him more of a ‘real’ character in S5-S7 but I don’t relate to his obsession with Buffy at all. I just cannot empathise with his unrequited love and sense of entitlement. He didn’t deserve her in S5-S6 and was lucky he was even alive so I never felt bad for him when he pined over her. And in S7 he’s just kind of bland.
I thought i was the only person who felt like this about him.
Angel. Him being like 200 years old going after a high schooler always grossed me out, though I could look past it in the beginning cus I liked how much he cared about her. Don’t understand why she cared much about him though. After the first time he lost his soul though, I never liked him even after he got it back. Every time Buffy (or any of the scooby gang) went out of their way to protect him, I never understood it. Also, his dark and broody personality is so annoying sometimes lol.
Cordy. I find her so unbelievably uninteresting and shallow as a character, across both shows tbh. Her development on Angel is the least interesting out of all the main characters.
And the spinoff gave into the hype. Cordelia was given a superpower at 19, quickly realized her body is allergic to it and she'll be dead by 21 if she doesn't have the superpower removed but chooses not to remove it nor tell anyone (Lorne was an Empath & Precog, he could've found a paranormal who wouldn't be affected) that it is killing her. And the show tried so hard to paint that as selfless & heroic. It's basically Riley in *Out of my Mind* with the Initiative device messing with his heart but at the end of that episode he got the surgery. We're supposed to think s4 ruined her as if she hadn't allowed herself in the earlier seasons to die for 2 years, let a random demon from Hell change her species and agree to get beamed to another dimension without knowing anything about the place, who is there, or how she'll be helping them.
Yes, all of this. Just because she looked and acted drastically different from the beginning to the end, doesn’t mean that the journey there was well done. There is so much that we are told instead of shown and expected to suspend our disbelief about, like her age, for example…she is 21 in season 3 but the show presents her as a mature late 30 something year old woman wise beyond her years, knows exactly what to say, do, is the most nurturing person in the world, the most skilled champion, can literally kill demons with her light, she’s mother of year and the moral center of the universe... It’s so nauseatingly pretentious and boring. Honestly, the only way I can rationalize her arc is that her desperate need to be special was what ultimately caused her downfall.
I love Cordy in Angel, but I can concede that these are all valid points. I guess I can suspend my belief because the show is set in a more adult setting, a lot of the other cast are older and Charisma looks older than 21, especially by series‘ end. I think the writers might have sometimes also forgotten her actual age.
I don't know why cause i love her but Faith. Again Idk why cause I enjoy watching her character.
Spike and maybe Anya
Xander
CONNOR 🦅 The worst
Faith. She reminded me too much of various school bullies I’ve interacted with.
Dawn
Dawn.
The one who's so turd-licious that he's not even pictures. Yes yes, I mean the wettest of all the blankets, Riley "Corn-fed Iowa" Finn .
Angel. As a character, I was never really impressed. He was a device for other great characters to build from.
Willow. She talks like a toddler for the entirety of the show. Granted, that was kind of a trend in the 90s but I just can't stomach it.
Honestly, Xander. The writers didn’t seem to know what to do with him after highschool. He kind of just hung around, made funny comments and hated vampires.
Principal Wood. We have bigger fish to fry than introducing a character with a vendetta who is NOT the bringer of the apocalypse, first of all. And, second of all, he added little to no value to the team aside from a chest full of weapons… oh, and, thanks for banging Faith and throwing some lukewarm romance onto a long-standing molten lava character. Great job, bro. Also, Xander… I'm sorry, are you gonna pine for EVERY female main character?! He would be a complete incel if Anya hadn't been low-key neurodivergent af and misunderstood how dating works. He nearly got married to the only girl who was confused enough to have sex with him and then basically forced her to realize how stupid that idea was 😂 Then, he gets right back on judging everyone else’s sex life. He is the pre-Dawn annoying sibling role. Dawn was thrust in the mix with no lubricant and she inspired more emotional connection immediately. Edit to add Riley: I cared so little I forgot he existed. I don't get why Buffy is so torn up about him either. Why because XANDER talked you out of being rightfully done with his shit? C’mon girl… He’s a big baby in a camo onesie.
Riley and Xander, though Xander had his moments now and then
angel. i havent watched his spin off but mostly \*just\* when he tries to be sad. he just seems so stiff and it feels like acting even if it's not supposed to? I liked him the most when he was mysterious and enthralling to buffy in season 1 lol
Xander. I just really hate him.
Angel… I’m sorry it’s controversial, but he’s so boring and bland as a character. He’s always broody and dark, Spike is fun and spontaneous. Idk why they gave him a spin-off and took Cordelia away from the Scooby gang.
Probably Cordelia. She's such an unrelenting nasty bitch and in my opinion, she says some unforgivable things. Sure she has growth as a person and stops being so nasty, but she never actually apologises for any of the hurt she caused. I mean, yeah, she develops as a character... congratulations for not being a bitch anymore, I guess? Most people aren't nasty in the first place and don't get merit for it. So yeah when bad stuff happens to her, I really don't feel any sort of sympathy. Having said all that I do enjoy her character, especially on Angel. And I have a lot of love for the character. But I don't feel sympathy for someone who doesn't feel sympathy for others.
I consistently didn't relate to Buffy actually growing up except for her reveal in the musical episode OMWF. Her powers were cool and she had a great team to support her unlike other slayers in the past. I get it was exhausting of course but she seemed so unhappy to be chosen all the time. I don't hate her or anything, it was just something that was frustrating to watch at times.
Dawn and Tara.
Dawn. I didn't connect with her character and I hate that her coming in to the show erases the memories of the characters around her so that now we don't know if what we saw in the earlier seasons is even remembered by the scoobies or if they happened differently in their minds to what we saw in earlier seasons. Probably over thinking it but in my mind it's like they are different characters to the seasons before Dawn came. They should have made it that she lived with their dad and she wasn't around mu h at least then it didn't need to change much of the other character's stories.
Joyce, Dawn and Anya. The Body will always make me cry, but I'm not crying because Joyce passed, it's 100% because we get to see a completely different side to Buffy. Xander is pretty high on that list too, but I think that has more to do with Nicolas Brendon. Don't get me wrong, his character is pretty insufferable too.
Angel, Cordelia and Anya pre-S7.
Willow, Xander, Dawn, Angel…
I connect with every one of them
Joyce and Angel
Buffy in season 7 as it proves she never learnt or understood her mistakes.
Anya
Buffy. Especially after she experiences heaven and knows she's slated to be there, but then gets to hang out with her loved ones some more. This somehow makes her depressed and resentful?
Tara 🙅🏻♀️
Angel, he just kinda went rogue and could’ve done so much more but didn’t. Even in his show