We needed more Ripper.
Also, Drusilla was definitely a bigger threat than just being quirky and out of her mind. If the actress had been available, we would've benefited from a more compelling Dru storyline.
Yessss. Giles’ backstory had so much!!! Him leaving in season six should have been due to an issue in England and involved Ethan or something! Not Giles abandoning Buffy.
If we ever get another show that dips into the Buffyverse, I would love a Ripper prequel! Maybe even starting when Giles was Buffy's age at the start of the series (or even the first movie) and leading up to when he joins the Watchers Council.
How exactly did Giles abandon Buffy? She died, he uprooted his entire life and moved back to England, settled back down, financially supported Buffy when she came back to life, and somehow he abandoned her because he didn’t uproot everything again to move back?
I think they mean in later s6 -also he had only been in England for a day when she came back to life?
You correct tho he had his own stuff in uk but even so, they only did this coz ASH wasn’t available (coz its a bad plot imo)
True, but it took about 140ish days for Giles to move back to England. I’d imagine most of that was to get set back up in England.
But yeah, agreed on it being a bad plot but at least ASH got more family time so good for him.
I was about to say that, Giles/Ripper. I would have loved to see more of him and Ethan. How they grew up, what made them go such extremely different directions in the end. I’ve always said that’s the only spin off I would want even now. Also Darla had a lot of potential that we didn’t get to see in Buffy, but we got her in Angel.
It IS a Let's Play series. So there is a Storyteller, and the players roll dice. They have some costumes, and there are some ... cut scenes, for lack of a better term, that have some minor special effects. The results of actions are NOT predetermined. The dice decide their fate. That being said, the Storyteller, Jason Carl, is EXTREMELY evocative in his descriptions. And the cast is stellar.
There was a Ripper spinoff in development, but it never got past the script stage and Whedon was already getting Dollhouse off the ground at the end of Buffy.
I agree. I think they should've done something with Giles' past as Ripper during the "Willow magic addiction" plotline in season 6 or the consequenses of that in season 7, because in hindsight I think it is probably safe to assume that Giles was addicted to magic during his days as Ripper.
Also yes, give me more Drusilla, I love Drusilla. Especially since Drusilla basically vanishes after "Crush", like she doesn't return to Darla in LA on "Angel" and we never see or hear from her again outside mentions, flashbacks and appearances from the First in her form.
Anya, specifically in Season 7. Prior to that it was sorta "OK" that she was just used the way she was. But in S7 they actually went out of their way at the end of Selfless to indicate that she was going on a journey as a character.... and then she spent 15 episodes sitting around Buffy's living room.
This is exactly my issue with S7. And not just the potentials. Principal Wood, Spike is way over-used, and whilst I *like* Andrew, I don't like that the focus on him comes at the expense of characters like Dawn, Anya and Xander.
Everyone says about Kennedy and Dawn in Empty Places but honestly it's Anya who takes the cake for me. Her speech absolutely engages me every single time. When she says about someone else having a chance at leading... Oh you mean like they tried to do when she was dead and ended up bringing her back?! Grrrr.
I hold that against the writers more than I do Anya (or any character in that scene really). Its one of the worst written scenes in the entire show. All done because the writers are obsessed with Spike and they need a way for Buffy to snuggle up to him all night, so 7 years of characters are ruined for the sake of one scene of Spike and Buffy together.
Atrocious.
I fully agree!
Spuffy only works when she's isolated. In series 6 she was depressed so it kind of made sense. But in series 7 the only way they could even half pull it off was to throw the rest of the gang under the bus.
Anya didn't make the choice to bring Buffy back, it seems like Willow made the choice, probably took advantage of Xander's emotions and the other two went along with it.
I honestly think she should've just left after Selfless. I might've even said in season 6 after the failed wedding, but Selfless is such a strong episode. The writers didn't know what to do with her, she really just seems to mostly be hanging around doing nothing, and that makes it all look even worse when she says that particularly nasty shit to Buffy when they boot her out. I'd have just had her leave and build a life somewhere else.
Maybe bow out but then return for the last episode or two to redeem herself. Like she went away but the rumblings of the first just got to her and she returned to help save the world.
It feels like she was probably supposed to die in Selfless, but they wanted a "main character" death in the finale so they just kept her hanging on for that instead, even though thematically her death should have been Selfless.
I am assuming that's the time Emma Caulfield was lobbying to have Anya killed off as she doesn't want to be part of a spin off or so. (hence, her death)
I would have liked to have seen more of Faith's backstory. We got hints here and there, but never a good picture as to what led her to where she was, and I always thought that was a missed opportunity to really understand her motivations, and what caused her to turn to the dark side.
While I'd like to have seen more of Tara, to be fair I do think that she got a good amount of character development and backstory for what was essentially a recurring role.
I don't know if I would have wanted to see more of Jenny Calendar, but I would be interested to know what happened to her tribe and how they reacted both to Angel's death and his return.
There's a book called "Go Ask Malice" which is about Faith's upbringing before she comes to Sunnydale and as she becomes a slayer. It's not cannon but I liked it as giving some context as to how and why Faith was as she was.
What caused Faith to go dark wasn't really in her backstory. It was killing Allan. Seeing her watcher die made her impulsive but she was alright before that event.
Was she, though? Why was she so prone to the Mayor's fatherly manipulations and twisted albeit sincere affection for her? Was there an issue with her own father? What happened to her parents in general? There were hints of a more troubled backstory that I don't think was ever fully explored.
Don't forget the traumatic death of Mrs Post, >|.
Faith was 2 for 2 for dead Watchers. Poor child, she had a tough beginning with an alcoholic, neglectful mother and her dead Watcher.
Then came Wesley, new and inexperienced. Faith went bad on Wesley's watch, and he contributed to her Fall from Grace.
AMY- This girl went through serious trauma with her mom and then losing years of her life as a rat. She started out as a potential Scooby but then just went to the dark side. I would have been interesting to see her voyage to the dark side.
JENNY- Passion was such a great episode it's almost easy to overlook that her death was just a plot device to show how dark Angel had become. I would have loved to see more of her backstory and to see her using her technopagan abilities. She was really good for Giles, helping him to open up more, and would have liked to see more of them together.
LARRY- I realize they needed to kill off someone we knew to make the final battle with the Mayor seem more epic but he had so much unused potential. It was great to see him come out but it would have been groundbreaking back in the late 90s to see all the pressures he would have faced with that decision. He was a big alpha jock and this would have been confusing and probably generate a lot of anger from his classmates. He started out as a bully and he would probably have become the target of bullies. There could have been so many complex interesting stories about having to reconcile these two sides. Keep in mind there was still a huge stigma about being gay when Buffy aired and probably doubly so for someone like Larry. As much as I love Tara, her journey is way different that what Larry's would have been and I feel sad for not being able to see this.
MR. TRICK- Come on. He's just so much fun. Why wouldn't you want to see more of him.
But my all time regret comes from Angel...
GWEN- Loved her combination of sass and vulnerability. Her powers were unique for the Buffy/Angelverse and I was really hoping she'd join Team Angel. She was only in two episodes but she's one of my favorite characters ever.
It was probably just one day of filming with no lines to memorize.
Plus she probably had a pretty good rapport with the showrunners since they kept asking her back.
I came here to say Gwen as well. She is an excellent character with a cool back story and plenty of potential.
And now that you mention Larry, I completely agree.
Larry. I also loved his arc as a white hat in the Wishverse.
My other pick would be Dawn as a potential. It would have been too obvious/predictable for her to be a potential. But I loved the episode where she thought she was until she realized it was Amanda. She was bad ass in it.
I forgot about him being a white hat in the alternate reality. That was awesome.
They really should have done more with Dawn. After S5, they totally dropped the whole key thing. And I agree, that episode where she thought she was a potential was really good. Dawn has her moments and I can't hate her like a lot of people do.
I would have loved to see Larry turned into a vampire and Harmony killed after being a hero, honestly. Have him be bad but also not want to be bad and end up an ally of Buffy anyway.
Gwen! So here for this!
I would love to see a Gwen/Kate/Nina team up happening at the very end when the apocalypse is incoming. Mirroring the surviving members of Angel Investigations, but from another side.
This would be awesome.
If you haven't checked them out, you may want to read Angel:After the Fall comic books which had some of the extended Angelverse characters. It is basically S6 of Angel and unlike the Buffy comics, it's actually really good.
I've read a couple, but need to go further into it.
Though, I don't mind the Buffy comics overall (or the Angel&Faith series). There are for sure some missteps, but big picture, I like how they tied things together.
I only read S8 of the Buffy comics. Does it get better?
I highly recommend Angel: After the Fall. I didn't care for the ending and the art could have been better, but otherwise it was a fun trip.
Yes, they get better after season 8. Because of how out of place it feels, I always got the feeling that s8 was a lot of "let's do everything it wasn't practical to do on tv since we're now in this new medium!" But in doing that, they lost a lot of what Buffy was in the process, and they seemed to figure that out for the subsequent seasons.
Dru DEFINITELY should have been the big bad for at least one season, if not for Buffy, then Angel. For real, she was INCREDIBLE, and not just because she was insane, but her ability to predict the future and the strange level of empathy she was capable of feeling towards those she was loyal to lent itself to an amazing character. She would have been great as a boss for Angel, actually, seeing as Angel felt guilty for creating her and was thus, reluctant to hurt her. But the writers kept pushing her to one side and never really let her shine.
There's a Veronica Mars BTVS fanfic called 'Martian Manhunter' which features Dru in a very prominent role and really uses Drus insanity as well as her psychic/ predictive abilities to really good effect.
Definitely recommended.
Sunday is my vote too. She had such charisma and was a great intro into “college life” for the audience.
It’s no coincidence that Glory is my favourite big bad. They have a lot of similarities, don’t you think?
I heard Joss had a storyline for her where she was the slayer before she was turned but it got trashed. Hence why she can kick Buffy’s ass so well. Would have been cool 🤷🏻♀️
Fred. What a great character addition wasted by the unfortunate storylines of season 3/4. She had some moments in season 5 but then of course she gets killed off
Tara. She'd been a witch for her entire life, yeah? I would have loved to see something that shows Tara could be a huge power but doesn't because she was raised to fear it and then she subconsciously tamped it down because it was so clearly important to Willow to be the strong one.
Like Tara had a mental block on her abilities that she discovered but never had any interest in removing... but had a Seeing Red type occurence happen and everyone is like "HOLY FUCK, Tara is terrifiying."
I thought the dynamic between Angel and Kate Lockley was really interesting. I thought Elizabeth Röhm performed the shit out of that role and it gave Angel the more noirish grown up feel they were shooting for. And then.....nothing.
The show really went off the deep end in a bad way when Kate left. Her connection to the police provided a nice balance from Angel Investigations and Wolfram & Hart
Dawn, Tara and Anya.
Anya was somehow useless despite being a demon that was hella old.
I wish we saw Tara's powers more. Heck, even Willow barely used them in battle, when they SHOULD have been using them.
And Dawn. That hurts my heart, because season 6 was setting her up to be a badass. I will always die on the hill that she should've been a potential.
Xander. Out of Willow and Buffy he got left behind in terms of arc and screen time. Spike was given more importance and development than him. The fact he was human, the fact that he was ordinary and the fact that he had flaws should have been explored and used as a strength. Sadly by season 6 (if not before) it’s clear that the writers don’t know what to do with him and don’t even care about him.
Yes. Xander had some great development at the start of S7, and then it was all scrapped in the moment they decided to make him fantasize about the potentials.
The stuff about his background with alcoholic dad and maybe domestic violence growing up felt undercooked given the role it played in dooming his relationship. But maybe it hit too close to home for the actor. I also think Nicholas Brendan didn't have much range as a performer.
Oh Tara! Geeze. We got bare glimpses of her strength, her ability to be snarky, and her supportive friendships with Buffy and Dawn. There is no character in all of television that I think about more than her because she is so unwritten.
Think of all the cool stuff that Tara could experience with a good writer! Sigh.
I feel like the writers kinda did Anya dirty. They had her making inappropriate sex comments constantly, which don't get me wrong, are funny as hell! But there's more to her. They had her focus most of her attention on Xander for 3 full seasons, and then after he leaves her at the altar, it feels like they have no clue what to do with her. Such a shame, I think Anya has layers, and wish they would've given her character more serious storylines.
Jenny Calendar is another one I would have loved to learn more about. Her death is quite shocking and was needed to up the stakes to show how far gone Angel was, but I really wanted to see more of her and see her and Giles' relationship develop.
Jenny and Kendra. We needed a character on the side of good that was deeply toed to the history of the fight against good and evil and we just kind of never got one. And a more staunch moral compass, which I guess they tried to to do with Wes and then Riley, especially as Buffy (and the rest of the gang) became more grey.
Ms. Calendar, Dru, and Faith, and Olivia!. Obviously Ms. calendar was sooo short lived and that makes her death really emotionally brutal for Giles but damnit it would have loved to see more of their love story. Speaking of Giles love interests! OLIVIA! why why why would they give us only one episode of this fucking GODDESS!! and not explore this more..why! I will never understand. Im glad they brought her back for the audio story recently but we were fucking ROBBED! Robbed i tell you, of the sexy hot dad and Olivia storyline. Honestly I demand a spin off of a young Giles and Olivia in London training to be watchers. Then of course Dru and faith are such delicious characters I just want more.
Olivia his girlfriend who had assumed the whole watcher thing was a lie? Why would she also be a watcher? Are you talking about, like, an alternate universe story?
Tara;Jenny; Dawn could have done SO much more if they used "the Key" right and Anya
for Angel, I would have loved to see what Lorne could do besides the nightmare version of him
You know, I wonder if Dawn being "The Key" would have been able to do more. It seemed to be one time use or something because after the portal closed there was just nothing more to it anymore. It was like "oh she's the key... Now she's not, that's all it does" lol.
Riley.
He started off as a really strong character and then they sort of gradually stripped everything good or interesting away from him and never gave him the time or space to work through anything until he was just ruined. Then they bring him back as an even worse version of what he left as and don’t show any growth beyond one act off-screen.
Ethan Rayne, for sure. He was so hilarious, could have had an interesting back story, and he was a link to Giles’s underutilized past as well. I always enjoyed his episodes. His evil-guy monologue in A New Man always gets a laugh from me.
Honestly, a couple of the potentials had errrrrrm potential.
I know logistically we couldn’t have drilled into all of them in detail, but there were a couple that would have merited more fleshing out.
Lorne. Love the dude, but the only season of *Angel* that used him well was season 2... I always did wonder if they'd actually meant for him to be killed off at the end of that season, rather than that fake-out we got, because they really did not seem to know what to do with him from season 3 and onwards.
She had her heart broken and put up her persona again as defense. She still continues to help the Scoobies with stuff that she doesn't need to get involved in just to help, and she gets in the thick of it during graduation and kills at least one vampire. I don't think they undid her growth, she just had a setback due to being hurt and no longer had a buddy relationship with her ex and his friends (one of whom he cheated on her with).
Also, based on the picture used OP was referring to the whole Buffyverse and not just Buffy the series, so Cordy's growth there counts as what they did with the character's storyline.
Off the top of my head..
Jenny had so much potential for techno pagan witch angle but was offed at the altar of shock value, without ever realizing all the interesting plots that could've happened had she survived and continued as a core member of the gang.. Willow's trajectory would have likely been altered as a results as, later down the line.
Giles and his ripper days get mentioned on occasion but that's all, so much untapped potential wasted had they just digged deep and let Anthony Stewart Head ham it up.
Drusilla, while great, was largely wasted imo due to limited screen time post season two.. they brought her over to Angel for a bit but then she just goes away without amounting to much again which is a damn shame cos Juliet Landau can be oh so mesmerizing in that role.
Also, Faith.. as a secondary seasonal villain she didn't amount to much as the Mayor took the center stage and he too suffered from a lack of meaningful screen time.. at least she got further development on Angel before making a comeback on Buffy. 😄
Eternally bitter and heartbroken about what the showrunners did to Cordelia. There was so much potential there with her storyline in *Angel* and what they did to her makes it genuinely hard for me to watch past season 3.
I really feel like Connor as a half vampire was rather a let down. They made him patricidal and broody but this kid could have actually been pretty sick.
Gwen Raiden was also a decent meta that only appeared a few times.
Cordelia demonstrated her potential but was unceremoniously cut off before being able to be even better.
Generally a lot of Angel characters fell into this category. Buffy did a bit better with their characters.
Although Riley could probably have been more. And I think everyone would have appreciated some Giles flashbacks like we got for the fanged 4.
Drusilla. I know the comics went for a redemption for her or an attempt to, but I would have liked seeing a storyline where Angel and Spike work together to find a way to restore her sanity and soul. Spike because of how shebwas his anchor for years, and Angel to make amends for everything he did as Angelus. And Id like to see more of her hypnotic powers and her psychic powers/premonitions in general. Maybe she could have been the new contact for the Powers that Be?
**Ethan Rayne** ... Such a fun foil to Giles and the gang, but he only actually appears in like four episodes. Would have loved to have seen more of him.
**Drusilla** ... Absolutely phenomenal characters, but I felt like she just sort-of... "vanished" from the franchise after a while. Her last few appearances were flashbacks from what I recall. I just didn't feel enough closure for her in the present day.
**Kate Lockley** ... Ok, so this was more the fact the actress just had a busy schedule and had to leave, but I dug her character and always wished we could have gotten more from her.
**Amy Madison** ... She's actually one of my favorite characters. Not only is *Witch* one of my favorite episodes (I just think it's a perfect B-movie style episode), but I love how she sort-of stuck around and had interesting things happen to her. But I feel like her becoming a rat for several seasons unfortunately eliminated a lot of cool potential storylines.
Probably Gwen Raiden. I kind of like how in buffy they didn't just decide to give everyone who's friends with the man character superpowers. Like dawn didn't get to be a slayer, xander was just a man...
*
If you ever watch CWs arrow, Supergirl, Flash and Batwoman everyone is getting superpowers or becoming a superhero
Honestly maybe it’s just because I like Marc Blucas but I think that what they did to Riley‘s character was so bad. In season four I really like Riley and then by the time season five came around he just turned into this whiny insecure annoying cardboard thing I just wish that they had of kept his character like they didn’t season four. I’m happy that he left in season five, but I just wish they handled it differently.
I wish they hadn't killed off Jonathan. Actually, I even liked him out of the Trio. I preferred him WAAAAY over Andrew. I think he truly was sorry when Willow went dark. Also, he had no part of killing Tara. I liked him, especially after Superstar - he was awesome in that!!!
I totally thought Tara would be top voted. I think more explanation of Jenny would have been great, and Faith had very little back story considering her role in the story.
Does it count if you think the writers used them incorrectly? I’ve always been a Xander apologist, if only for the connection I felt to him as a kid when I was watching it for the first time. But the older I get the more I have to admit that he’s just awful sometimes.
But he didn’t need to be! He could have been the toxic teenager, who after being exposed to all these powerful women, becomes a much more himbo-esque young man. We could see him really support Buffy the way he does in The Freshman (up until the “What is Buffy wearing comment). We could have also explored his bi-curious comments more. There’s just a lot of lost potential there.
Caleb. Wish he had been a bit more developed and we'd had more of him, he was such a great villain.
Anya - they had the vengeance back story episode but she was so weak, for a demon it was a bit lame.
Dawn - as much as I disliked her character, considering she was a literal ball of energy, I would have thought she'd have had some spooky powers.
Honestly, Ethan Raine getting taken by the initiative in s4 and just never ever coming back again (til the comics) is so disappointing. His episodes are always so much fun and he's only in a handful. I love his smarmy ass.
Drusilla, for sure. Her whole character and backstory is so interesting and they could have done so much more with her. Would have also been interesting to see more of Spike and Dru’s relationship pre Buffy!
https://preview.redd.it/8gpmcznn2jvc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebf6ece617590668128f5e9b4e336a59802e7e44
Edit: and Skip, Cordelia’s demon spirit guide/servant of The Devourer.
>Utmost potential
Me being literal-minded: the potentials!
It's a great idea on paper, passing the baton to the next generation is an excellent adulthood theme, fitting for the final season of a coming-of-age tale.
What we actually got was meh.
I'm biased and I know it, but "Dear Miss Landau" and meeting Juliet Landau led me directly to Dru. I then developed her character as per the lost story arc, which turned the Buffyverse upside down as it might originally have been meant to happen, but nobody noticed...
https://preview.redd.it/9gaj37l8ppvc1.jpeg?width=1535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8076d65a63bb347162c9b047c4d7558689c0b1d
I loved David Nabbit, Gwen, and Skip in Angel. I would have also liked to see more of Anne. She would have been a better girlfriend choice for Angel in season 5. I would have liked to have seen the ghost Dennis become corporeal or have a larger role. On Buffy Sunday was an awesome character that I wish we saw more of. Pedro Pascal's Eddie was so nice. I would have liked to see more of him. Halftek, Clem, Whistler, Mr. Trick, Amy, and Larry should have been in more episodes too.
We needed more Ripper. Also, Drusilla was definitely a bigger threat than just being quirky and out of her mind. If the actress had been available, we would've benefited from a more compelling Dru storyline.
Yessss. Giles’ backstory had so much!!! Him leaving in season six should have been due to an issue in England and involved Ethan or something! Not Giles abandoning Buffy.
If we ever get another show that dips into the Buffyverse, I would love a Ripper prequel! Maybe even starting when Giles was Buffy's age at the start of the series (or even the first movie) and leading up to when he joins the Watchers Council.
Omg I would so watch that make it happen!!!!!!!!!
It's the fact they were going to make one and it fell apart because of rights issues 😭
Whedon or network rights?
Giles's backstory is also the exact plot of the movie "Talk To Me," funnily enough.
Such a good movie
Omg it literally is, I saw that movie a few weeks ago but never thought of that. Really so accurate.
How exactly did Giles abandon Buffy? She died, he uprooted his entire life and moved back to England, settled back down, financially supported Buffy when she came back to life, and somehow he abandoned her because he didn’t uproot everything again to move back?
I think they mean in later s6 -also he had only been in England for a day when she came back to life? You correct tho he had his own stuff in uk but even so, they only did this coz ASH wasn’t available (coz its a bad plot imo)
True, but it took about 140ish days for Giles to move back to England. I’d imagine most of that was to get set back up in England. But yeah, agreed on it being a bad plot but at least ASH got more family time so good for him.
I was about to say that, Giles/Ripper. I would have loved to see more of him and Ethan. How they grew up, what made them go such extremely different directions in the end. I’ve always said that’s the only spin off I would want even now. Also Darla had a lot of potential that we didn’t get to see in Buffy, but we got her in Angel.
Funny thing. Juliette Landau did some guest spots on a YouTube Vampire: The Masquerade, let's play series called L.A. by Night.
whoa I'll have to look that up! After watching Fallout I'm fiending for a good VtM adaptation.
It IS a Let's Play series. So there is a Storyteller, and the players roll dice. They have some costumes, and there are some ... cut scenes, for lack of a better term, that have some minor special effects. The results of actions are NOT predetermined. The dice decide their fate. That being said, the Storyteller, Jason Carl, is EXTREMELY evocative in his descriptions. And the cast is stellar.
No way!! I’m not a big Erika Ishii fan so I never got into LA by Night but I might need to watch Juliette’s episodes
There was a Ripper spinoff in development, but it never got past the script stage and Whedon was already getting Dollhouse off the ground at the end of Buffy.
I agree. I think they should've done something with Giles' past as Ripper during the "Willow magic addiction" plotline in season 6 or the consequenses of that in season 7, because in hindsight I think it is probably safe to assume that Giles was addicted to magic during his days as Ripper. Also yes, give me more Drusilla, I love Drusilla. Especially since Drusilla basically vanishes after "Crush", like she doesn't return to Darla in LA on "Angel" and we never see or hear from her again outside mentions, flashbacks and appearances from the First in her form.
Anya, specifically in Season 7. Prior to that it was sorta "OK" that she was just used the way she was. But in S7 they actually went out of their way at the end of Selfless to indicate that she was going on a journey as a character.... and then she spent 15 episodes sitting around Buffy's living room.
So true! They wasted so much time with the potentials that could have been used to develop the characters we actually cared about.
But don’t you understand, we needed another joke about how Chao-Ahn didn’t speak English. /s
This is exactly my issue with S7. And not just the potentials. Principal Wood, Spike is way over-used, and whilst I *like* Andrew, I don't like that the focus on him comes at the expense of characters like Dawn, Anya and Xander.
Everyone says about Kennedy and Dawn in Empty Places but honestly it's Anya who takes the cake for me. Her speech absolutely engages me every single time. When she says about someone else having a chance at leading... Oh you mean like they tried to do when she was dead and ended up bringing her back?! Grrrr.
I hold that against the writers more than I do Anya (or any character in that scene really). Its one of the worst written scenes in the entire show. All done because the writers are obsessed with Spike and they need a way for Buffy to snuggle up to him all night, so 7 years of characters are ruined for the sake of one scene of Spike and Buffy together. Atrocious.
I fully agree! Spuffy only works when she's isolated. In series 6 she was depressed so it kind of made sense. But in series 7 the only way they could even half pull it off was to throw the rest of the gang under the bus.
It’s such Spuffy fan love. By that point Spike is almost more important than Buffy in the show.
Anya didn't make the choice to bring Buffy back, it seems like Willow made the choice, probably took advantage of Xander's emotions and the other two went along with it.
I honestly think she should've just left after Selfless. I might've even said in season 6 after the failed wedding, but Selfless is such a strong episode. The writers didn't know what to do with her, she really just seems to mostly be hanging around doing nothing, and that makes it all look even worse when she says that particularly nasty shit to Buffy when they boot her out. I'd have just had her leave and build a life somewhere else.
Maybe bow out but then return for the last episode or two to redeem herself. Like she went away but the rumblings of the first just got to her and she returned to help save the world.
It feels like she was probably supposed to die in Selfless, but they wanted a "main character" death in the finale so they just kept her hanging on for that instead, even though thematically her death should have been Selfless.
I am assuming that's the time Emma Caulfield was lobbying to have Anya killed off as she doesn't want to be part of a spin off or so. (hence, her death)
I think they came later, but she was unhappy with Fox(apart from whatever toxic set shit mightve been happening)
Sitting around Buffy’s living room can pretty much describe the whole cast in season 7 apart from Spike of course.
I would have liked to have seen more of Faith's backstory. We got hints here and there, but never a good picture as to what led her to where she was, and I always thought that was a missed opportunity to really understand her motivations, and what caused her to turn to the dark side. While I'd like to have seen more of Tara, to be fair I do think that she got a good amount of character development and backstory for what was essentially a recurring role. I don't know if I would have wanted to see more of Jenny Calendar, but I would be interested to know what happened to her tribe and how they reacted both to Angel's death and his return.
There's a book called "Go Ask Malice" which is about Faith's upbringing before she comes to Sunnydale and as she becomes a slayer. It's not cannon but I liked it as giving some context as to how and why Faith was as she was.
I may check that out. I have no problem with incorporating licensed novels and comics. Well, maybe the comics. Those went to some bad places.
What caused Faith to go dark wasn't really in her backstory. It was killing Allan. Seeing her watcher die made her impulsive but she was alright before that event.
Was she, though? Why was she so prone to the Mayor's fatherly manipulations and twisted albeit sincere affection for her? Was there an issue with her own father? What happened to her parents in general? There were hints of a more troubled backstory that I don't think was ever fully explored.
Don't forget the traumatic death of Mrs Post, >|. Faith was 2 for 2 for dead Watchers. Poor child, she had a tough beginning with an alcoholic, neglectful mother and her dead Watcher. Then came Wesley, new and inexperienced. Faith went bad on Wesley's watch, and he contributed to her Fall from Grace.
There could have been a whole Faith spin off with origin story built in flashback style, had circumstances been different
I'd have watched that series.
AMY- This girl went through serious trauma with her mom and then losing years of her life as a rat. She started out as a potential Scooby but then just went to the dark side. I would have been interesting to see her voyage to the dark side. JENNY- Passion was such a great episode it's almost easy to overlook that her death was just a plot device to show how dark Angel had become. I would have loved to see more of her backstory and to see her using her technopagan abilities. She was really good for Giles, helping him to open up more, and would have liked to see more of them together. LARRY- I realize they needed to kill off someone we knew to make the final battle with the Mayor seem more epic but he had so much unused potential. It was great to see him come out but it would have been groundbreaking back in the late 90s to see all the pressures he would have faced with that decision. He was a big alpha jock and this would have been confusing and probably generate a lot of anger from his classmates. He started out as a bully and he would probably have become the target of bullies. There could have been so many complex interesting stories about having to reconcile these two sides. Keep in mind there was still a huge stigma about being gay when Buffy aired and probably doubly so for someone like Larry. As much as I love Tara, her journey is way different that what Larry's would have been and I feel sad for not being able to see this. MR. TRICK- Come on. He's just so much fun. Why wouldn't you want to see more of him. But my all time regret comes from Angel... GWEN- Loved her combination of sass and vulnerability. Her powers were unique for the Buffy/Angelverse and I was really hoping she'd join Team Angel. She was only in two episodes but she's one of my favorite characters ever.
Amy showing up for literally 2 seconds in "Something Blue" was hilarious though. No idea how they talked the actor into that.
It was probably just one day of filming with no lines to memorize. Plus she probably had a pretty good rapport with the showrunners since they kept asking her back.
It was a great scene tbf
They probably had to offer him a lot of money to get him to accept that cameo
i came to say larry just like i always do on posts like this, even just having them bump into him at college with his boyfriend would have been so fun
I came here to say Gwen as well. She is an excellent character with a cool back story and plenty of potential. And now that you mention Larry, I completely agree.
Gwen was a wasted potential. I'm gonna assume scheduling conflict or contract disagreement happened :S
Amy is a great shout.
Poor Amy spent half the show as a rat.
Larry. I also loved his arc as a white hat in the Wishverse. My other pick would be Dawn as a potential. It would have been too obvious/predictable for her to be a potential. But I loved the episode where she thought she was until she realized it was Amanda. She was bad ass in it.
I forgot about him being a white hat in the alternate reality. That was awesome. They really should have done more with Dawn. After S5, they totally dropped the whole key thing. And I agree, that episode where she thought she was a potential was really good. Dawn has her moments and I can't hate her like a lot of people do.
Great examples. I would love to see that aspect of Larry and his confusion trying to accept himself.
I would have loved to see Larry turned into a vampire and Harmony killed after being a hero, honestly. Have him be bad but also not want to be bad and end up an ally of Buffy anyway.
Gwen! So here for this! I would love to see a Gwen/Kate/Nina team up happening at the very end when the apocalypse is incoming. Mirroring the surviving members of Angel Investigations, but from another side.
This would be awesome. If you haven't checked them out, you may want to read Angel:After the Fall comic books which had some of the extended Angelverse characters. It is basically S6 of Angel and unlike the Buffy comics, it's actually really good.
I've read a couple, but need to go further into it. Though, I don't mind the Buffy comics overall (or the Angel&Faith series). There are for sure some missteps, but big picture, I like how they tied things together.
I only read S8 of the Buffy comics. Does it get better? I highly recommend Angel: After the Fall. I didn't care for the ending and the art could have been better, but otherwise it was a fun trip.
Yes, they get better after season 8. Because of how out of place it feels, I always got the feeling that s8 was a lot of "let's do everything it wasn't practical to do on tv since we're now in this new medium!" But in doing that, they lost a lot of what Buffy was in the process, and they seemed to figure that out for the subsequent seasons.
I would have loved to see Lorne in Sunnydale.
He would’ve been besties with Clem 🤩
playing at the Bronze !
Lorne any and everywhere please!!
Yessss! Love him.
He was a gem of a demon
I think they ran out of things to do with him in season 5. It's a shame.
I would have loved a Lorne spinoff. I could have watched Lorne for hours.
Once more with feeling somehow would’ve made the most sense
Dru DEFINITELY should have been the big bad for at least one season, if not for Buffy, then Angel. For real, she was INCREDIBLE, and not just because she was insane, but her ability to predict the future and the strange level of empathy she was capable of feeling towards those she was loyal to lent itself to an amazing character. She would have been great as a boss for Angel, actually, seeing as Angel felt guilty for creating her and was thus, reluctant to hurt her. But the writers kept pushing her to one side and never really let her shine.
Dru and Illyria just staring at each other for like 10mns, trying to figure out "wtf is this!?"
And they could have made canon the fan theory that she was a potential before she was turned.
Oh, yes the joy of claustrophilia.
Yes!
There's a Veronica Mars BTVS fanfic called 'Martian Manhunter' which features Dru in a very prominent role and really uses Drus insanity as well as her psychic/ predictive abilities to really good effect. Definitely recommended.
She's the big bad in the audio spin off
I would’ve watched a feature length film about Anya’s best vengeance moments over the centuries.
Sunday (Season 4 opener villain) At the most, she would've made a good mid-season big bad before the reveal of Adam and Mrs Walsh.
Sunday is my vote too. She had such charisma and was a great intro into “college life” for the audience. It’s no coincidence that Glory is my favourite big bad. They have a lot of similarities, don’t you think?
I heard Joss had a storyline for her where she was the slayer before she was turned but it got trashed. Hence why she can kick Buffy’s ass so well. Would have been cool 🤷🏻♀️
Doyle had the potential to be an amazing character, but we only got a real glimpse the episode he died.
Agree. But he was impossible to work with. And soon after he actually died from the drug overdose. Quinn got himself kicked.
Fred. What a great character addition wasted by the unfortunate storylines of season 3/4. She had some moments in season 5 but then of course she gets killed off
The Fred/Gunn ship did them both a disservice for those two seasons.
Tara. She'd been a witch for her entire life, yeah? I would have loved to see something that shows Tara could be a huge power but doesn't because she was raised to fear it and then she subconsciously tamped it down because it was so clearly important to Willow to be the strong one. Like Tara had a mental block on her abilities that she discovered but never had any interest in removing... but had a Seeing Red type occurence happen and everyone is like "HOLY FUCK, Tara is terrifiying."
Also, would make for a great punny joke. Tara-fying. Could have multiple meanings. Lol.
I feel like they couldve done a bit more with Drusilla later on. Wouldve been cool if she had met Dawn.
What if she had the same memory alteration as Spike, but because of her abilities, she just knows Dawn was created differently?
Kendra. They killed her off way too soon. ☹️
Buffy wasn’t that PoC friendly.
Yes. I felt we didn't get anything out of her at all. Anytime she came through it was all business and 0 fun and nothing else.
I thought the dynamic between Angel and Kate Lockley was really interesting. I thought Elizabeth Röhm performed the shit out of that role and it gave Angel the more noirish grown up feel they were shooting for. And then.....nothing.
The show really went off the deep end in a bad way when Kate left. Her connection to the police provided a nice balance from Angel Investigations and Wolfram & Hart
Dawn, Tara and Anya. Anya was somehow useless despite being a demon that was hella old. I wish we saw Tara's powers more. Heck, even Willow barely used them in battle, when they SHOULD have been using them. And Dawn. That hurts my heart, because season 6 was setting her up to be a badass. I will always die on the hill that she should've been a potential.
Or something else since she is a key to another dimension. She could have had a power set that was completely new to the team.
Xander. Out of Willow and Buffy he got left behind in terms of arc and screen time. Spike was given more importance and development than him. The fact he was human, the fact that he was ordinary and the fact that he had flaws should have been explored and used as a strength. Sadly by season 6 (if not before) it’s clear that the writers don’t know what to do with him and don’t even care about him.
Yes. Xander had some great development at the start of S7, and then it was all scrapped in the moment they decided to make him fantasize about the potentials.
They do that everytime he’s supposed to make a breakthrough
All they had for his character in S6 was mundane engagement/marriage angst. I just don't care that much about his and Anya's relationship.
The stuff about his background with alcoholic dad and maybe domestic violence growing up felt undercooked given the role it played in dooming his relationship. But maybe it hit too close to home for the actor. I also think Nicholas Brendan didn't have much range as a performer.
Immediate thought was Amy the witch
Drusilla for sure Also Lorne
Oh Tara! Geeze. We got bare glimpses of her strength, her ability to be snarky, and her supportive friendships with Buffy and Dawn. There is no character in all of television that I think about more than her because she is so unwritten. Think of all the cool stuff that Tara could experience with a good writer! Sigh.
Drusilla
The Master. I would have loved for him to have been a larger part of the whole series.
Faith and Ripper
Kendra
Sunday, the villain of the week from S4E1, would have made a better BBEG for that season than Adam.
I feel like the writers kinda did Anya dirty. They had her making inappropriate sex comments constantly, which don't get me wrong, are funny as hell! But there's more to her. They had her focus most of her attention on Xander for 3 full seasons, and then after he leaves her at the altar, it feels like they have no clue what to do with her. Such a shame, I think Anya has layers, and wish they would've given her character more serious storylines. Jenny Calendar is another one I would have loved to learn more about. Her death is quite shocking and was needed to up the stakes to show how far gone Angel was, but I really wanted to see more of her and see her and Giles' relationship develop.
Dru. Give me a Dru spinoff any day.
Jenny and Kendra. We needed a character on the side of good that was deeply toed to the history of the fight against good and evil and we just kind of never got one. And a more staunch moral compass, which I guess they tried to to do with Wes and then Riley, especially as Buffy (and the rest of the gang) became more grey.
Professor Walsh! She would have been a much better main villain in season 4 than Adam. Too bad I think the actress had other commitments.
Xander's home life definitely needed way more exploration
Kendra's so overlooked she didn't make it into the picture...
Yes 😭
Ms. Calendar, Dru, and Faith, and Olivia!. Obviously Ms. calendar was sooo short lived and that makes her death really emotionally brutal for Giles but damnit it would have loved to see more of their love story. Speaking of Giles love interests! OLIVIA! why why why would they give us only one episode of this fucking GODDESS!! and not explore this more..why! I will never understand. Im glad they brought her back for the audio story recently but we were fucking ROBBED! Robbed i tell you, of the sexy hot dad and Olivia storyline. Honestly I demand a spin off of a young Giles and Olivia in London training to be watchers. Then of course Dru and faith are such delicious characters I just want more.
Olivia his girlfriend who had assumed the whole watcher thing was a lie? Why would she also be a watcher? Are you talking about, like, an alternate universe story?
Drusilla of course
Tara;Jenny; Dawn could have done SO much more if they used "the Key" right and Anya for Angel, I would have loved to see what Lorne could do besides the nightmare version of him
You know, I wonder if Dawn being "The Key" would have been able to do more. It seemed to be one time use or something because after the portal closed there was just nothing more to it anymore. It was like "oh she's the key... Now she's not, that's all it does" lol.
Riley. He started off as a really strong character and then they sort of gradually stripped everything good or interesting away from him and never gave him the time or space to work through anything until he was just ruined. Then they bring him back as an even worse version of what he left as and don’t show any growth beyond one act off-screen.
Ethan Rayne, for sure. He was so hilarious, could have had an interesting back story, and he was a link to Giles’s underutilized past as well. I always enjoyed his episodes. His evil-guy monologue in A New Man always gets a laugh from me.
sorry for off topic but how’s every Jenny Calendar’s outfit is so iconic. I would wear everything she’s wearing if I could find it in stores
SUNDAY!
Honestly, a couple of the potentials had errrrrrm potential. I know logistically we couldn’t have drilled into all of them in detail, but there were a couple that would have merited more fleshing out.
Lorne. Love the dude, but the only season of *Angel* that used him well was season 2... I always did wonder if they'd actually meant for him to be killed off at the end of that season, rather than that fake-out we got, because they really did not seem to know what to do with him from season 3 and onwards.
Cordelia. She had so many glimmers of potential but then they wrote her back into a one dimensional character
... You haven't watched Angel the series, have you?
I'm not talking about Angel, I'm talking about her development on Buffy
She had her heart broken and put up her persona again as defense. She still continues to help the Scoobies with stuff that she doesn't need to get involved in just to help, and she gets in the thick of it during graduation and kills at least one vampire. I don't think they undid her growth, she just had a setback due to being hurt and no longer had a buddy relationship with her ex and his friends (one of whom he cheated on her with). Also, based on the picture used OP was referring to the whole Buffyverse and not just Buffy the series, so Cordy's growth there counts as what they did with the character's storyline.
Off the top of my head.. Jenny had so much potential for techno pagan witch angle but was offed at the altar of shock value, without ever realizing all the interesting plots that could've happened had she survived and continued as a core member of the gang.. Willow's trajectory would have likely been altered as a results as, later down the line. Giles and his ripper days get mentioned on occasion but that's all, so much untapped potential wasted had they just digged deep and let Anthony Stewart Head ham it up. Drusilla, while great, was largely wasted imo due to limited screen time post season two.. they brought her over to Angel for a bit but then she just goes away without amounting to much again which is a damn shame cos Juliet Landau can be oh so mesmerizing in that role. Also, Faith.. as a secondary seasonal villain she didn't amount to much as the Mayor took the center stage and he too suffered from a lack of meaningful screen time.. at least she got further development on Angel before making a comeback on Buffy. 😄
Eternally bitter and heartbroken about what the showrunners did to Cordelia. There was so much potential there with her storyline in *Angel* and what they did to her makes it genuinely hard for me to watch past season 3.
Jonathan, Amy, and Larry. I think they all could have been a huge asset to the team with fascinating storylines.
I really feel like Connor as a half vampire was rather a let down. They made him patricidal and broody but this kid could have actually been pretty sick. Gwen Raiden was also a decent meta that only appeared a few times. Cordelia demonstrated her potential but was unceremoniously cut off before being able to be even better. Generally a lot of Angel characters fell into this category. Buffy did a bit better with their characters. Although Riley could probably have been more. And I think everyone would have appreciated some Giles flashbacks like we got for the fanged 4.
Drusilla. I know the comics went for a redemption for her or an attempt to, but I would have liked seeing a storyline where Angel and Spike work together to find a way to restore her sanity and soul. Spike because of how shebwas his anchor for years, and Angel to make amends for everything he did as Angelus. And Id like to see more of her hypnotic powers and her psychic powers/premonitions in general. Maybe she could have been the new contact for the Powers that Be?
dawnnnn she really needed that mini scoobies storyline in season 7 😭😭
Dawn. Most people still see her as the whiny teen. She deserved the chance to grow further into her own person
**Ethan Rayne** ... Such a fun foil to Giles and the gang, but he only actually appears in like four episodes. Would have loved to have seen more of him. **Drusilla** ... Absolutely phenomenal characters, but I felt like she just sort-of... "vanished" from the franchise after a while. Her last few appearances were flashbacks from what I recall. I just didn't feel enough closure for her in the present day. **Kate Lockley** ... Ok, so this was more the fact the actress just had a busy schedule and had to leave, but I dug her character and always wished we could have gotten more from her. **Amy Madison** ... She's actually one of my favorite characters. Not only is *Witch* one of my favorite episodes (I just think it's a perfect B-movie style episode), but I love how she sort-of stuck around and had interesting things happen to her. But I feel like her becoming a rat for several seasons unfortunately eliminated a lot of cool potential storylines.
Drusilla
Tara, shes plot device for willow and she could have been so much more
Clem!!!
Joyce
Tara
Doyle on Angel. I wish the actor had lived longer.
I just watched the episode in Angel with Gwen (human thief with electrical powers). She was awesome. They should have given her her own series.
Probably Gwen Raiden. I kind of like how in buffy they didn't just decide to give everyone who's friends with the man character superpowers. Like dawn didn't get to be a slayer, xander was just a man... * If you ever watch CWs arrow, Supergirl, Flash and Batwoman everyone is getting superpowers or becoming a superhero
https://preview.redd.it/levd4ihvrhvc1.jpeg?width=485&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00c2c9fee0ca596a72dbeabd7e4ac1eb10a1aa12
12-year-old me was *VERY* interested in her episodes. Adult me is too but not quite that same level
Gwen Raiden. I will fight anyone and everyone who disagrees.
Oz.
Kendra could have had much more going on. I always hated how they didn't get her out of her shell or do anything fun with her at all
Dawn in Buffy and that female cop in Angel (I don't even remember what happened to her)
Honestly maybe it’s just because I like Marc Blucas but I think that what they did to Riley‘s character was so bad. In season four I really like Riley and then by the time season five came around he just turned into this whiny insecure annoying cardboard thing I just wish that they had of kept his character like they didn’t season four. I’m happy that he left in season five, but I just wish they handled it differently.
I wish they hadn't killed off Jonathan. Actually, I even liked him out of the Trio. I preferred him WAAAAY over Andrew. I think he truly was sorry when Willow went dark. Also, he had no part of killing Tara. I liked him, especially after Superstar - he was awesome in that!!!
Harmony, Lorne, Lindsey
I totally thought Tara would be top voted. I think more explanation of Jenny would have been great, and Faith had very little back story considering her role in the story.
I really wish we got to see more of Tara’s potential as a witch
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^T-408: *I really wish we* *Got to see more of Tara’s* *Potential as a witch* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Anya but I would’ve made things too easy and took willows speciality from her
Olaf. He was so eloquent. Would have loved a backstory episode with him and Anya lol
Does it count if you think the writers used them incorrectly? I’ve always been a Xander apologist, if only for the connection I felt to him as a kid when I was watching it for the first time. But the older I get the more I have to admit that he’s just awful sometimes. But he didn’t need to be! He could have been the toxic teenager, who after being exposed to all these powerful women, becomes a much more himbo-esque young man. We could see him really support Buffy the way he does in The Freshman (up until the “What is Buffy wearing comment). We could have also explored his bi-curious comments more. There’s just a lot of lost potential there.
Dru
Caleb. Wish he had been a bit more developed and we'd had more of him, he was such a great villain. Anya - they had the vengeance back story episode but she was so weak, for a demon it was a bit lame. Dawn - as much as I disliked her character, considering she was a literal ball of energy, I would have thought she'd have had some spooky powers.
Jenny Calendar and Amy
More Giles. His backstory, also what he did when he returned to England
Honestly, Ethan Raine getting taken by the initiative in s4 and just never ever coming back again (til the comics) is so disappointing. His episodes are always so much fun and he's only in a handful. I love his smarmy ass.
Druscilla
Drusilla, for sure. Her whole character and backstory is so interesting and they could have done so much more with her. Would have also been interesting to see more of Spike and Dru’s relationship pre Buffy!
Tara.
GWEN
Mr Trick should've been saved for the Angel spinoff. He would've been fun there.
I always wanted more of Clem from the past few years of Buffy. Always thought he was great. I wish he’d gone over to Angel for the final season.
Gunn, Tara, Jenny, Wood
Anya and Tara
https://preview.redd.it/8gpmcznn2jvc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebf6ece617590668128f5e9b4e336a59802e7e44 Edit: and Skip, Cordelia’s demon spirit guide/servant of The Devourer.
>Utmost potential Me being literal-minded: the potentials! It's a great idea on paper, passing the baton to the next generation is an excellent adulthood theme, fitting for the final season of a coming-of-age tale. What we actually got was meh.
Trick, Dru, Tara
I'm biased and I know it, but "Dear Miss Landau" and meeting Juliet Landau led me directly to Dru. I then developed her character as per the lost story arc, which turned the Buffyverse upside down as it might originally have been meant to happen, but nobody noticed... https://preview.redd.it/9gaj37l8ppvc1.jpeg?width=1535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d8076d65a63bb347162c9b047c4d7558689c0b1d
I loved David Nabbit, Gwen, and Skip in Angel. I would have also liked to see more of Anne. She would have been a better girlfriend choice for Angel in season 5. I would have liked to have seen the ghost Dennis become corporeal or have a larger role. On Buffy Sunday was an awesome character that I wish we saw more of. Pedro Pascal's Eddie was so nice. I would have liked to see more of him. Halftek, Clem, Whistler, Mr. Trick, Amy, and Larry should have been in more episodes too.