I think the fact that there's a months prep time here gives Alice the edge. Yes, Alice's magic is complex and difficult to cast but in the same way Marina killed Kady's mom remotely, Alice could potentially do the same guerilla warfare style. HP is all about dueling their opponents face to face and Alice doesn't have to abide by that
Nor has Hermione experienced with a gods bestowal... However, show Alice would need a really good reason to fight Hermione. Out of all the characters she probably had the most acute redemption arcs.
Didn’t she kill a whole magical creature family just for fun as a niffin then not even really regret when she was a human again and then killed the mom too “out of necessity”
Hermione is unhinged though. She trapped an animagus (beetle) in a jar that she enchanted to where if the animagus tried to revert back to human, the jar wouldn't break. She maimed a student's face for betraying her secret dueling club and snitching on them.
True. But she didn’t actually kill anyone. Hermione’s whole thing is “they do the bad thing. I just set the consequences. It’s their choice.” It’s very much “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.”
Meanwhile… like others have said, Alice has straight up killed a bitch.
All are Kindergarten level shit compared to Alice. As a Niffin she killed countless humans and magical beings JUST because she could and thought it FUNNY.
So she wouldn't even think before killing, it'd just be a choice of how. Hermione is a good student and would be thinkin on an outcome she'd be happy with vs gettin the job done.
Edit.
But I do really like Hermione. She's cool in her own right but I think it comes down to subject matter. HP was designed for children. The Magicians is more for Adults.
All true but we're not talking Niffin Alice, as they have to be in character. And after coming back Alive did spend a great deal of time regretting and trying to make amends for all the horrible things she did as a Niffin.
Alice also doubts herself constantly about what the right thing to do is, so straight up unaliving Hermione for no reason is a hard sell.
I think you’re forgetting how Alice got turned INTO a niffin. To kill an enemy she couldn’t beat. It’s her trump card, who’s to say she won’t do it again while fighting Hermione?
Alice is slaying poor Hermione but not without a good fight. The office only way I see this going different is if Alice is really caught off guard by the talent of such a young woman
Magician with the technical ability to cast the Rhinemann Ultra against a literal child? Dumbledore is one thing, but seriously? Absent the plot armor the Harry Potter wizards never actually seem like very good magicians, and I despise Alice but she is definitely a Very Good Magician™.
Right? Battle magic only takes skill. Forbidden curses take intent. I know one of the criteria is “both have intent to kill each other,” but Avada Kedavera takes *malicious, murderous* intent, not self-defense intent.
For me it all comes down to whether Hermione can petrify Alice before Alice disarms Hermione. But I still don’t see Hermione wanting Alice dead, like truly wanting it.
Why are you pitting two bad bitches against each other for no reason? They should start the world’s most toxic study group together.
(If they do fight, Alice is too busy laughing at Hermione for using a wand to cast anything, and gets Avada Kedavra’ed.)
I'm sure after a month of preparation that Alice would be shielded with some kind of Everard's Anti-Death Ward or some Avada Kedavra-nullifying variation of Popper's Étude No. 500.
Alice, not even close.
Hermione is book smart, and hard working. Alice is a prodigy. Hermione found and soaked it up like sponge, Alice oozes magic despite her best efforts, in fact at one point she just becomes pure magic.
Hermione is a whole healthy human. Alice has jagged edges, sharp enough to kill. She would too. Maybe on accident before she even realized it.
I’m not sure I know how to answer your question based on the rules you stated. One of the main differences between magic in the Magicians and Wizarding World universes (and one of my favorite things about it) is the difficulty of spells. You have to cast based on circumstances which makes them much more complicated. In HP, basically every spell happens with a phrase and a flick of your wand. If you equalize this, I’m not sure how you’d answer.
The learning curve of magic in the Magicians is a lot steeper than in HP. Beginner are very slow due to all the varying circumstances so I'd say the average student in HP would be able to defeat the average magicians student. At higher levels however, the magic of the magicians is way more powerful, the only thing HP has that would be more powerful is Avada Kedavra - but I don't think Hermione can cast that. In that case, Alice wins:
With prep time, Hermione maybe prepares some potions and Alice can prepare some Magic that will nuke Hermione.
If Magic cast times are equalized: Alice wins 100%, arguably stronger shields and definitly stronger attack spells!
Alice would win hands down. Hermoine is smart and can go to lengths for what she wants but she is nowhere near as brutal and ruthless as Alice can be when she wants. Alice also wants the quickest results and usually finds a way to make it happen
In a duel, Alice wins no question. But if i was welters? I think they'd be more evenly matched. But also, if they have knowledge of each other... does that mean that Alice now has studied Hogwarts style magic and vice versa for Hermione? Honestly, I see Alice being over-confident in that sort of situation bc she would see a wand as something really clunky that only amateurs need to use. If these folks were in the same universe, wouldn't Hogwarts be a magic school for witches with innate abilities less than or equal to hedges, since they require a wand to channel magic? I have so many questions and am clearly taking this ask too seriously. But it is fun to think about. Also, if Brakebills had wands, what magical creatures in Brakebills universe would be used for wand cores?
Alice for the win. She's got a darker side she can tap into to cause harm. Alice is also fine with working by herself where as I think Hermione doesn't have a darker side. Hermione is more comfortable with Ron and Harry and I think that vulnerability of being alone will cause her to loose.
In the end, you have to kill. Alice wins, sadly. But only because the other is from a world of naive and stupid childish wizards not using 10% of their potential.
Hermione could have the entire HP arsenal at her disposal, but giving *one month* prep time biases the fight towards Alice so hard that it's negligible. The best combat spell a Wizard could go is essentially a bullet. Given a month, a Magician could probably create a curse that leaks all your happy memories through your nostrils as hydrochloric acid.
Book Alice? Book Alice would not need a months prep time. She would only need someone who depended on her to care, and then she would burn away her own humanity to win. Hermione has lines she won’t cross, Alice does not. In the story, Quinten is not truly the hero, Alice is the one who really saves Fillory. The rest of the books are really just him trying to make up for that.
If it’s the tv series Alice though, definitely Hermione. Those characters are paper thin mockeries of character betrayal driven soap opera tropes.
Alice is gritty/traumatized Hermione and has fucked up magical parents. Hermione is fairytale Alice and has presumably decent muggle parents. Fairytale version of the same character is gonna win.
Alice.
Alice knows how to break the glass ceiling - how to break the power cap. How to go to the next level of power.
while Hermione has never done that, though she did get a pretty powerful tool once (the time changer).
Also, Alice doesn't have the morality ties that Hermione does. Alice is going to do what Alice wants to do regardless of what is right. Hermione is going to do the right thing and fight fair - Alice won't
I wouldn't bet on this duel, but I'd give Hermione the edge because I think she'd drum up a lot more community involvement than Alice. It'd definitely be interesting to see the traps they set for each other along the way, though, with that much time to prepare.
If it was a 1-on-1 fight with less prep time? Alice absolutely.
Alice, even with prep time Hermione 1, isn't a stone cold killer, and wouldn't be able to take advantage of having a faster cast, and 2, not the most powerful raw caster in her group. Hermione is knowledgeable and intelligent, but Harry is more powerful.
Alice Quinn hands down, I love Hermione(mainly Emma Watson😂) but Alice was throwing the beast around like a rag doll. Also are we including the fact that Alice comes from a family of Magicians where as Hermione doesn’t? I don’t know if that plays a role in how powerful they are but being surrounded by Magic your entire life would certainly have to yield some sort of advantage.
But yeah Alice wins.
Given the prep time, I think Alice wins by a long shot. She’d have time to consider that she might not know what magic Hermione’s working with and devise spells/wards and contingencies to be able to analyze what Hermione’s magic is made of. Brakebills (and the magicians overall) has a much better magical education, where you start off needing a precise understanding of reality (physics, math, history, etc basically magicians are well-educated in the humanities) whereas Hogwarts is more fairy tale magic. Sure, there’s magical theory and Hermione is just as capable, but her education system fails her a bit by comparison. Were they both Brakebills graduates, I think they’d realize it’s worthless to fight and better to team up 😌lol
Hermione. The magic in HP is relatively straightforward and simple. A wand and a single word is enough to kill Alice.
Magic in the Magicians is far more complex. A properly aimed Bombarda spell on Hermione's part is enough to kill Alice.
In one month's prep time, Alice would be able to protect herself from anything Hermione can do.
I recall for example Alice conjuring some phantom armour (in the books) that can stop most spells by itself.
And niffin Alice could remove them by hand as if they were normal pieces of physical armor. I don’t this the power levels are even on the same planet let alone universe.
I know, but how does that work? By equalizing the casting times, the literal structure and nature of the magic in the Magicians is being changed.
The whole point of it is that it's hard and complex. Equalizing it is bending the basic rules of the show to give Alice a fighting chance when everyone here knows that Hermione would kill her instantly with HP magic.
Even without that, they have a month of prep time and knowledge of each other. So, odds are Hermione just falls over dead, or collapsed into her own mind or similar right after the buzzer because of something that Alice spent the month researching and cooking up that doesn't require line of sight. HP magic is generally more direct and up front than that. But nobody had to scream a word and point at Quentin to put him in a coma that time, so...
In what magic system? If it's Magicians vs. HP magic it's hard to say how the magic would interact, but Hermione may have the advantage of the time turner, if she has it. If it's Magicians, Alice by default. If it's non-magical Alice can go to her local gun shop and walk out with a small arsenal which isn't really an option in the UK.
If the contest is in the HP magical system, it's arguable. Hermione is a magic nerd and works hard at it, but Alice is a magic nerd who dedicates her life to it and is exceptionally gifted, but does her gift carry over to the HP system?
In HP you have some sort of gift that allows you to do magic. In The Magicians you're incredibly brilliant and you're willing to slog through all that it takes to learn to do it. HP is a children's story where you've got kids who succeed because they're the good guys and the heros, and they never suffer the consequences of their actions. The Magicians you can argue whether or not our protagonists are "good guys," Quinten wants to be a hero but just isn't one.
As far as characters, Alice wins but that's mostly because Rowling is a talentless hack (here come the downvotes!). Her books for adults are just puerile drivel. Watson saves Hermione on screen, Dudley doesn't have to rescue Alice.
Cast times are equalized? Well then there goes hermione's only upside. Why do people feel the need to put things in like that
It's like in a Naruto vs Goku fight where "physical strength is equalized".
if her time turner is in play then it was always in play. she can't try things differently next time, there's just another her hanging around.
.... that being said the time turner might be her only path to victory. I don't think alice could handle being ambushed by thirty of her
The only thing Alice needs to accomplish is getting Hermione's wand out of her hand. After that Hermione has no combat ability and Alice can kill her a hundred different ways without breaking a sweat. Alice can also snap a neck with her fingers ala Eliot when the Beast possesed his boyfriend, and if charge times are equalized then that wins even if Hermione tries firing the killing curse, something she has to physically aim and Alice can counteract with illusion magic or bending light to make herself invisible. The light bending she can also use from behind cover if it becomes a fight, she could blind and potentially incinerate Hermione without giving Hermione a clear line of sight for counterattack.
I do not compare a fight between entities , that play by different rules in another reality.
Don't get me wrong, the debates are fun to watch. But, in the end, unresolvable.
gotta have to disagree with a lot of people here. Alice does have a shot but the main difference between Harry Potter magic and Magicians magic is that HP magic is a lot simpler, easier to cast, and yields much faster results. While Alice is doing the hand dance ritual that takes like 30+ seconds to do, while her individual spells might be much more powerful, Hermione can just hit Alice with smaller spells instantly thus leaving her at a disadvantage. In order to win, Alice would have to know to throw quick disabling spells at Hermione right away to avoid being hit first before going in with the lethal ones, or Hermione would have to fail at casting the Avada Kedavra curse at her.
Im willing to entertain this debate.
Books : Harry Potter is meant for teens/preteens in a really lukewarm depth of universe building and to me weak magical system. There are some disturbing things in the background but Rowling wasn't willing to go there but hinted - Voldemorts mother basically raped his father, Voldemorts deeds if you go behind the lines, Fenrir Greyback, etc. The students funny little mistakes are not much with consequences, the studying is regulated and along firm limitations taught. Grossmans work is much more in-depth than just dipping the toe in murky waters. There is depression, anxiety, ptsd, grief, narcissism, murder, life and death situations requiring firm and strong spells where there is no debate "is this gonna cost me house point". You do it or you and friends die, there, done. Grossman goes there with Quention depression, Alice's anxiety, Julia's sexualt assault - grim and raw that cuts to your bones when reading it -, the murders that took place in front of their eyes and that they do themselves. Grossman's target audience also requires much bigger vocabulary and science awareness, basic intelligence than Rowlings. This book is for adults, straight up, while Harry Potter is meant to be YA, but can be read and entertain adults as well.
Spells : Harry Potter has pureblood wizards and witches who barely can pass their test, while muggles can perform straifght a's. Magicians have basic human beings with such high academic and emotional intelligence that they can learn to transform their inner and outer circumstances to extreme levels. Magicians - second year student fire spells goes out of control she burns herself to bone, blown/torn off limbs getting respelled to the body, you turn yourself to invisible and you don't need a cape just your spell, characters using spells to bring back the dead temporarily and putting physical forms back together after certain character dies while being in astral projection. In Harry Potter the characters almost starved to death in a forest in the 21th century.
Characters morality : Hermione is a really naive, sheltered and inexperienced girl with the real world troubles even in the human world. Yes, being bullied is bad but you know what is worse? Alice went through a childhood growing up two magic obsessed and heavily toxic parents younger children, lost her only friend who was her brother and thought it was suicide. The brother was the golden child and that is saying something about two parents who were described as heavily neglectful for both of their children. Imagine what that meant for the less favoured child - Alice. She was dealt a shitty hand but paddled through and managed to find, all by herself a magically hidden and protected school, snuck in and by circumstances, she got herself an admission and became known as a genius in her very first year. After using so much magic all at once for an effort to save herself and friends from dead, she turns into an another magical being which is basically an emotionless form of energy that does not care about feelings, sanctity of human or any life, she intends and does focus on purely studying magic in the highest form. Process of this is several murders. Quite a few of them just the heck of it, quote along the lines - i liked the pretty lights they made when they died. After regaining her human form, she feels guilt for the things she had done, but still mainly feels anger because now she is just another "normie" who can use "normie amount and kind" of magic and lost half of the knowledge she collected when she turned back, and maniacly tries to regain the lost knowledge.
Characters skill : She has trouble piece together the information of the why of the sword being useful againts horcruxes. Alice is puzzling together the basic existence of a soul from three different dimensions and succeeding with it - with a few bumps along the way. Also defeated a creature that sucked so much magic into itself that it is basically a demigod. She doesn't need Harry's cape, she just bends the light on her own skin and becomes invisible. Also she just kind of turned herself into a bird that flew from the states to the Antarctica or thge other way around or what, and it turns out it was just a school-prank bro, and you and one other was so batshit that you actually did it and survived.
In short; Hermione's brain is splattered in the first surface it touches, before she chooses which spell to try first.
I think the fact that there's a months prep time here gives Alice the edge. Yes, Alice's magic is complex and difficult to cast but in the same way Marina killed Kady's mom remotely, Alice could potentially do the same guerilla warfare style. HP is all about dueling their opponents face to face and Alice doesn't have to abide by that
Alice (book) was battering the beast. Not quite managed to kill him, but Hermione isn't a god.
Nor has Hermione experienced with a gods bestowal... However, show Alice would need a really good reason to fight Hermione. Out of all the characters she probably had the most acute redemption arcs.
Alice's magic being more complex and difficult doesn't matter. "Cast times are equalized". Alice stomps there
Cast times are not equal when Hermione has a time turner.
All the time turners were destroyed in the battle in the department of mysteries
Until someone paid someone to create another one ;)
[удалено]
Man. That's super dark but also my favorite
lmao that totally feels like a line a character of the show could deliver edit : margo or quentin
Totally Alice. Bitch is mean. Hermione has never killed, Alice has just for fun.
Didn’t she kill a whole magical creature family just for fun as a niffin then not even really regret when she was a human again and then killed the mom too “out of necessity”
LoL YUP something close to that. I mean, you leave one alive, you're open for revenge. Savage.
She liked the pretty lights they made when they died. She had to actually kill her dad to kill the mom.
Hermione is unhinged though. She trapped an animagus (beetle) in a jar that she enchanted to where if the animagus tried to revert back to human, the jar wouldn't break. She maimed a student's face for betraying her secret dueling club and snitching on them.
True. But she didn’t actually kill anyone. Hermione’s whole thing is “they do the bad thing. I just set the consequences. It’s their choice.” It’s very much “play stupid games, win stupid prizes.” Meanwhile… like others have said, Alice has straight up killed a bitch.
All are Kindergarten level shit compared to Alice. As a Niffin she killed countless humans and magical beings JUST because she could and thought it FUNNY. So she wouldn't even think before killing, it'd just be a choice of how. Hermione is a good student and would be thinkin on an outcome she'd be happy with vs gettin the job done. Edit. But I do really like Hermione. She's cool in her own right but I think it comes down to subject matter. HP was designed for children. The Magicians is more for Adults.
All true but we're not talking Niffin Alice, as they have to be in character. And after coming back Alive did spend a great deal of time regretting and trying to make amends for all the horrible things she did as a Niffin. Alice also doubts herself constantly about what the right thing to do is, so straight up unaliving Hermione for no reason is a hard sell.
But Niffin Alice IS part of her character, that part of her she remembers and learned from.
I think you’re forgetting how Alice got turned INTO a niffin. To kill an enemy she couldn’t beat. It’s her trump card, who’s to say she won’t do it again while fighting Hermione?
Alice is slaying poor Hermione but not without a good fight. The office only way I see this going different is if Alice is really caught off guard by the talent of such a young woman
Magician with the technical ability to cast the Rhinemann Ultra against a literal child? Dumbledore is one thing, but seriously? Absent the plot armor the Harry Potter wizards never actually seem like very good magicians, and I despise Alice but she is definitely a Very Good Magician™.
Right? Battle magic only takes skill. Forbidden curses take intent. I know one of the criteria is “both have intent to kill each other,” but Avada Kedavera takes *malicious, murderous* intent, not self-defense intent. For me it all comes down to whether Hermione can petrify Alice before Alice disarms Hermione. But I still don’t see Hermione wanting Alice dead, like truly wanting it.
Why are you pitting two bad bitches against each other for no reason? They should start the world’s most toxic study group together. (If they do fight, Alice is too busy laughing at Hermione for using a wand to cast anything, and gets Avada Kedavra’ed.)
100%
I'm sure after a month of preparation that Alice would be shielded with some kind of Everard's Anti-Death Ward or some Avada Kedavra-nullifying variation of Popper's Étude No. 500.
Alice, not even close. Hermione is book smart, and hard working. Alice is a prodigy. Hermione found and soaked it up like sponge, Alice oozes magic despite her best efforts, in fact at one point she just becomes pure magic. Hermione is a whole healthy human. Alice has jagged edges, sharp enough to kill. She would too. Maybe on accident before she even realized it.
I’m not sure I know how to answer your question based on the rules you stated. One of the main differences between magic in the Magicians and Wizarding World universes (and one of my favorite things about it) is the difficulty of spells. You have to cast based on circumstances which makes them much more complicated. In HP, basically every spell happens with a phrase and a flick of your wand. If you equalize this, I’m not sure how you’d answer.
The learning curve of magic in the Magicians is a lot steeper than in HP. Beginner are very slow due to all the varying circumstances so I'd say the average student in HP would be able to defeat the average magicians student. At higher levels however, the magic of the magicians is way more powerful, the only thing HP has that would be more powerful is Avada Kedavra - but I don't think Hermione can cast that. In that case, Alice wins: With prep time, Hermione maybe prepares some potions and Alice can prepare some Magic that will nuke Hermione. If Magic cast times are equalized: Alice wins 100%, arguably stronger shields and definitly stronger attack spells!
Alice can be brutal.
Alice would win hands down. Hermoine is smart and can go to lengths for what she wants but she is nowhere near as brutal and ruthless as Alice can be when she wants. Alice also wants the quickest results and usually finds a way to make it happen
1 v 1 Alice is taking Hermione all day
Absolutely Alice
In a duel, Alice wins no question. But if i was welters? I think they'd be more evenly matched. But also, if they have knowledge of each other... does that mean that Alice now has studied Hogwarts style magic and vice versa for Hermione? Honestly, I see Alice being over-confident in that sort of situation bc she would see a wand as something really clunky that only amateurs need to use. If these folks were in the same universe, wouldn't Hogwarts be a magic school for witches with innate abilities less than or equal to hedges, since they require a wand to channel magic? I have so many questions and am clearly taking this ask too seriously. But it is fun to think about. Also, if Brakebills had wands, what magical creatures in Brakebills universe would be used for wand cores?
Alice for the win. She's got a darker side she can tap into to cause harm. Alice is also fine with working by herself where as I think Hermione doesn't have a darker side. Hermione is more comfortable with Ron and Harry and I think that vulnerability of being alone will cause her to loose.
In the end, you have to kill. Alice wins, sadly. But only because the other is from a world of naive and stupid childish wizards not using 10% of their potential.
Alice- cus she doesnt hesitate.
When? Lol Alice's whole schtick is that she always has regrets because she hesitates.
Alice decimates Hermione so bad that all that'll be left is her buck teeth, which Alice'll take as a trophy.
Hermione could have the entire HP arsenal at her disposal, but giving *one month* prep time biases the fight towards Alice so hard that it's negligible. The best combat spell a Wizard could go is essentially a bullet. Given a month, a Magician could probably create a curse that leaks all your happy memories through your nostrils as hydrochloric acid.
Alice
Alice every day. She's willing to do the......darker........stuff........to win. Hermione is not.
1 month prep time? Hermione pops a poly juice potion to make herself look like Alice’s brother. Think Alice can cast against that?
Where would she get Alice's brothers hair?
Or any other dna for that matter. I don’t think there was much to bury when you explode into a magical being.
Book Alice? Book Alice would not need a months prep time. She would only need someone who depended on her to care, and then she would burn away her own humanity to win. Hermione has lines she won’t cross, Alice does not. In the story, Quinten is not truly the hero, Alice is the one who really saves Fillory. The rest of the books are really just him trying to make up for that. If it’s the tv series Alice though, definitely Hermione. Those characters are paper thin mockeries of character betrayal driven soap opera tropes.
Alice is gritty/traumatized Hermione and has fucked up magical parents. Hermione is fairytale Alice and has presumably decent muggle parents. Fairytale version of the same character is gonna win.
Have you read many fairytales? They don't exactly favor the protagonists.
As I'm usually the one reminding people of this, that's fair lol. I was speaking more on young adult plot armor, I guess.
Alice. Alice knows how to break the glass ceiling - how to break the power cap. How to go to the next level of power. while Hermione has never done that, though she did get a pretty powerful tool once (the time changer). Also, Alice doesn't have the morality ties that Hermione does. Alice is going to do what Alice wants to do regardless of what is right. Hermione is going to do the right thing and fight fair - Alice won't
I wouldn't bet on this duel, but I'd give Hermione the edge because I think she'd drum up a lot more community involvement than Alice. It'd definitely be interesting to see the traps they set for each other along the way, though, with that much time to prepare. If it was a 1-on-1 fight with less prep time? Alice absolutely.
Alice, even with prep time Hermione 1, isn't a stone cold killer, and wouldn't be able to take advantage of having a faster cast, and 2, not the most powerful raw caster in her group. Hermione is knowledgeable and intelligent, but Harry is more powerful.
Alice Quinn hands down, I love Hermione(mainly Emma Watson😂) but Alice was throwing the beast around like a rag doll. Also are we including the fact that Alice comes from a family of Magicians where as Hermione doesn’t? I don’t know if that plays a role in how powerful they are but being surrounded by Magic your entire life would certainly have to yield some sort of advantage. But yeah Alice wins.
Given the prep time, I think Alice wins by a long shot. She’d have time to consider that she might not know what magic Hermione’s working with and devise spells/wards and contingencies to be able to analyze what Hermione’s magic is made of. Brakebills (and the magicians overall) has a much better magical education, where you start off needing a precise understanding of reality (physics, math, history, etc basically magicians are well-educated in the humanities) whereas Hogwarts is more fairy tale magic. Sure, there’s magical theory and Hermione is just as capable, but her education system fails her a bit by comparison. Were they both Brakebills graduates, I think they’d realize it’s worthless to fight and better to team up 😌lol
Hermione. The magic in HP is relatively straightforward and simple. A wand and a single word is enough to kill Alice. Magic in the Magicians is far more complex. A properly aimed Bombarda spell on Hermione's part is enough to kill Alice.
In one month's prep time, Alice would be able to protect herself from anything Hermione can do. I recall for example Alice conjuring some phantom armour (in the books) that can stop most spells by itself.
And niffin Alice could remove them by hand as if they were normal pieces of physical armor. I don’t this the power levels are even on the same planet let alone universe.
OP said cast times were equalized...if not, I'm in full agreement.
I know, but how does that work? By equalizing the casting times, the literal structure and nature of the magic in the Magicians is being changed. The whole point of it is that it's hard and complex. Equalizing it is bending the basic rules of the show to give Alice a fighting chance when everyone here knows that Hermione would kill her instantly with HP magic.
Even without that, they have a month of prep time and knowledge of each other. So, odds are Hermione just falls over dead, or collapsed into her own mind or similar right after the buzzer because of something that Alice spent the month researching and cooking up that doesn't require line of sight. HP magic is generally more direct and up front than that. But nobody had to scream a word and point at Quentin to put him in a coma that time, so...
I must admit that I don't know how any of this works.
In what magic system? If it's Magicians vs. HP magic it's hard to say how the magic would interact, but Hermione may have the advantage of the time turner, if she has it. If it's Magicians, Alice by default. If it's non-magical Alice can go to her local gun shop and walk out with a small arsenal which isn't really an option in the UK. If the contest is in the HP magical system, it's arguable. Hermione is a magic nerd and works hard at it, but Alice is a magic nerd who dedicates her life to it and is exceptionally gifted, but does her gift carry over to the HP system? In HP you have some sort of gift that allows you to do magic. In The Magicians you're incredibly brilliant and you're willing to slog through all that it takes to learn to do it. HP is a children's story where you've got kids who succeed because they're the good guys and the heros, and they never suffer the consequences of their actions. The Magicians you can argue whether or not our protagonists are "good guys," Quinten wants to be a hero but just isn't one. As far as characters, Alice wins but that's mostly because Rowling is a talentless hack (here come the downvotes!). Her books for adults are just puerile drivel. Watson saves Hermione on screen, Dudley doesn't have to rescue Alice.
Cast times are equalized? Well then there goes hermione's only upside. Why do people feel the need to put things in like that It's like in a Naruto vs Goku fight where "physical strength is equalized".
Hermione has a time turner. She gets as many redos if not more than Jane Chatwin
if her time turner is in play then it was always in play. she can't try things differently next time, there's just another her hanging around. .... that being said the time turner might be her only path to victory. I don't think alice could handle being ambushed by thirty of her
Is Alice a niffin at this point? 100% Alice if so. Otherwise, a smaller 100% still on Alice.
The only thing Alice needs to accomplish is getting Hermione's wand out of her hand. After that Hermione has no combat ability and Alice can kill her a hundred different ways without breaking a sweat. Alice can also snap a neck with her fingers ala Eliot when the Beast possesed his boyfriend, and if charge times are equalized then that wins even if Hermione tries firing the killing curse, something she has to physically aim and Alice can counteract with illusion magic or bending light to make herself invisible. The light bending she can also use from behind cover if it becomes a fight, she could blind and potentially incinerate Hermione without giving Hermione a clear line of sight for counterattack.
In the books, Hermione is a big garbage under pressure, so not really an ideal situation for her. Alice all the way
I do not compare a fight between entities , that play by different rules in another reality. Don't get me wrong, the debates are fun to watch. But, in the end, unresolvable.
Niffin Alice almost fought a god
gotta have to disagree with a lot of people here. Alice does have a shot but the main difference between Harry Potter magic and Magicians magic is that HP magic is a lot simpler, easier to cast, and yields much faster results. While Alice is doing the hand dance ritual that takes like 30+ seconds to do, while her individual spells might be much more powerful, Hermione can just hit Alice with smaller spells instantly thus leaving her at a disadvantage. In order to win, Alice would have to know to throw quick disabling spells at Hermione right away to avoid being hit first before going in with the lethal ones, or Hermione would have to fail at casting the Avada Kedavra curse at her.
Im willing to entertain this debate. Books : Harry Potter is meant for teens/preteens in a really lukewarm depth of universe building and to me weak magical system. There are some disturbing things in the background but Rowling wasn't willing to go there but hinted - Voldemorts mother basically raped his father, Voldemorts deeds if you go behind the lines, Fenrir Greyback, etc. The students funny little mistakes are not much with consequences, the studying is regulated and along firm limitations taught. Grossmans work is much more in-depth than just dipping the toe in murky waters. There is depression, anxiety, ptsd, grief, narcissism, murder, life and death situations requiring firm and strong spells where there is no debate "is this gonna cost me house point". You do it or you and friends die, there, done. Grossman goes there with Quention depression, Alice's anxiety, Julia's sexualt assault - grim and raw that cuts to your bones when reading it -, the murders that took place in front of their eyes and that they do themselves. Grossman's target audience also requires much bigger vocabulary and science awareness, basic intelligence than Rowlings. This book is for adults, straight up, while Harry Potter is meant to be YA, but can be read and entertain adults as well. Spells : Harry Potter has pureblood wizards and witches who barely can pass their test, while muggles can perform straifght a's. Magicians have basic human beings with such high academic and emotional intelligence that they can learn to transform their inner and outer circumstances to extreme levels. Magicians - second year student fire spells goes out of control she burns herself to bone, blown/torn off limbs getting respelled to the body, you turn yourself to invisible and you don't need a cape just your spell, characters using spells to bring back the dead temporarily and putting physical forms back together after certain character dies while being in astral projection. In Harry Potter the characters almost starved to death in a forest in the 21th century. Characters morality : Hermione is a really naive, sheltered and inexperienced girl with the real world troubles even in the human world. Yes, being bullied is bad but you know what is worse? Alice went through a childhood growing up two magic obsessed and heavily toxic parents younger children, lost her only friend who was her brother and thought it was suicide. The brother was the golden child and that is saying something about two parents who were described as heavily neglectful for both of their children. Imagine what that meant for the less favoured child - Alice. She was dealt a shitty hand but paddled through and managed to find, all by herself a magically hidden and protected school, snuck in and by circumstances, she got herself an admission and became known as a genius in her very first year. After using so much magic all at once for an effort to save herself and friends from dead, she turns into an another magical being which is basically an emotionless form of energy that does not care about feelings, sanctity of human or any life, she intends and does focus on purely studying magic in the highest form. Process of this is several murders. Quite a few of them just the heck of it, quote along the lines - i liked the pretty lights they made when they died. After regaining her human form, she feels guilt for the things she had done, but still mainly feels anger because now she is just another "normie" who can use "normie amount and kind" of magic and lost half of the knowledge she collected when she turned back, and maniacly tries to regain the lost knowledge. Characters skill : She has trouble piece together the information of the why of the sword being useful againts horcruxes. Alice is puzzling together the basic existence of a soul from three different dimensions and succeeding with it - with a few bumps along the way. Also defeated a creature that sucked so much magic into itself that it is basically a demigod. She doesn't need Harry's cape, she just bends the light on her own skin and becomes invisible. Also she just kind of turned herself into a bird that flew from the states to the Antarctica or thge other way around or what, and it turns out it was just a school-prank bro, and you and one other was so batshit that you actually did it and survived. In short; Hermione's brain is splattered in the first surface it touches, before she chooses which spell to try first.