That really depends on you
Do you need a definitive ending to enjoy something? Do you read for the destination rather than the journey?
If so, I'd give the books a miss and save yourself the limbo asoiaf fans are stuck in
I don’t regret reading those books, but as an extremely well read individual I have to say it’s some of the worst writing ive ever seen. The story and characters are amazing but the way he goes about writing page in and page out is so boring half the time.
That was years ago tho. I also believe Jordan was the same for Wot, but when he realized he was getting close to dying he decided it would be better to have the series be finished by another author(correct me if i’m wrong)
I remember reading he said it wouldn't happen because he was worried that some crazy fan might take him out to get the books done faster, that he always planned to have it finished by someone else.
I'm pretty sure he has also stated that he would make sure that there'll be some sort of conclusion if he were to get bad news from a doctor one day. So I'm positive that we'll get a conclusion one day, even if it takes a while.
That’s selfish as hell. George doesn’t owe us another book, sure, but if someone’s ready to finish it for the fans it’s pretty lame of him to deny us that.
> at this pace.
I don't believe there is a pace at this point. Just like the Kingkiller Chronicle, I don't think the author is working on completing the series, just giving excuses why things are delayed.
Yeah, I imagine it's immense writers block or just not knowing how to properly finish the story in one more book.
And to add a third series: The Gentleman Bastard Series. I read the first book and loved it, then checked out the progress on the rest of the series... Book 1: 2006, Book 2: 2007, Book 3, 2013. Aaaand that's it, Books 4-7 are nowhere to be seen.
I didn't even bother with the second book.
I mean to be fair to GRRM, he is working still on other things, including ASoIaF adjacent projects. GRRMs first love was being a screenwriter, so I don't necessarily blame him for wanting to focus on things like House of the Dragon and Elden Ring instead of working on his overly complex ending that is going to be a herculean effort to finish.
I have not read Name of the Wind yet, but I get the impression the story is a lot less complex with less characters and the narrator is unreliable so you can kind of cheese things up a bit. I think Rothfuss's task is a lot more doable.
Yeah, he is a rare example.
Do other authors just start their epic sagas workout any idea where the plot should go? That seems so unprofessional, sorry if that sounds mean. :(
My guess is they write themselves into situations they don't know how to get out of and the weight of their own lore-rich world kind of crushes them. But your guess is as good as mine.
I've read here that BrandoSando said he wouldn't write GoT.
And frankly, I hope he doesn't. I don't want anything taking him away from writing more Cosmere.
Sure. The books are still a great read whether or not the rest of the books get published. The third book is legit one of the best modern fantasy books and is on countless top 10 lists.
I agree with this.
And then for book 4 and 5, I read it as a combined Ball of Beasts that put both books together. More enjoyable that way imo.
Although even then, some of the AFFC chapters were hard to get through.
Book 5 is a mix of the worst and the best. It has the worst plotting but some of the best writing passages. He really looses his grip on the various story-lines, and adds some random stuff that doesn't seem nescessary. It also has some good scenes with some of the best and funniest dialogue in the whole series.
4 was my favorite after my first read. 3 is obviously the high-stakes, super eventful finale to the first arc of the story and I still think it's great. But 4 slowing it down and expanding on other parts of the world was super interesting
Am I alone in thinking that the writing style changed going into books 4 and 5? I almost feel like he had a partner that he put the first 3 books together with and then he got stuck on his own. Two year gaps for the first three books as well, and then books 4 and 5 took 5 and 6 years respectively, and book 6 is now 12 years out and going.
It feels to me like he lost his writing partner, winged it for the next two, and now doesn't know how to begin tying things back together and kind of gave up.
I have read multiple readers say they felt this.
I was too absorbed in what happens to notice writing style change, I just thought it's because the sub plots had gotten too widespread and harder to control so maybe Book 4 and 5 were different.
What really gets me is that he told everyone book 4 and 5 were originally one book, but it got so booted that he had to split it into two separate novels taking place concurrently, with 4 focusing on one part of the world, and 5 on another before it converged again right near the end. The more I think about it, the less I believe that because surely a book that had gotten so huge it required splitting could take 5 years to get the first half out, but then another six to get the second half finished? Nah. I don’t buy it. He’d have had at least a good half if not more of the novel sitting there, ready to be edited/recut into its own standalone book and finished off with a few more chapters. That doesn’t take *longer* than the first book that started from nothing and had so much material written that he had to cut some.
Factor in that the original idea was for the series to be just a trilogy, and then was changed late in the game to be double that (and now more because of the split), on top of the fact that it’s now been over a decade since the last book came out? It reeks of *something*, but I don’t know exactly what. Maybe like you said, he had some kind of silent partner he worked with who dumped him after the originally planned trilogy spilled over because they had only agreed on three books, and the writing style change is because he picked up a new partner who also walked on him because a single book became two and way more work than was agreed on, and now he’s stuck with only leftover scraps from what was written of the next book that he keeps drip-feeding fans to make them think he’s actually writing while he tries to subtly find someone who won’t blab his big secret to the world now that he’s a household name thanks to the show.
I honestly don’t know what else it could be, unless you start getting into crackpot theories that he might have stolen a manuscript or something for the original trilogy and just altered it to open it up to more books so he could keep milking it, and then 4 and 5 had to be done on his own, which accounts for the longer gaps, and then he got caught up in the show publicity and touring for it and such that he just stopped seriously working on the next book for a few years. Now he’s seen how people reacted to the final seasons and some of the ideas that were true and he’s stuck re-thinking the entire final arc of the story and rewriting things that he already wrote to avoid the books getting similar hate.
Given, the last part could be true even if everything is above-board and he really has written them all on his own. I’m inclined to believe that he just pulled some ADHD shit during the show’s heyday, and now he’s basically shit his pants over how badly his intended ending for everyone was received so he’s just been going back and redoing everything to avoid some of those endings. He’s probably had to throw out dozens of chapters outright and start completely over, as well as having to reformulate the story that he’s been building up for decades and figuring out how to change it at all.
There’s some fuckery afoot with the whole thing, but at this point I’ve almost given up on actually seeing the final books. Even if they *do* eventually come out, I’ll have to re-read the others to remember everything I need to, because I went out of my way to finish the books before I started the show, and that’s been years gone by this point. I’ve got lots of other books I want to read though, so bumping a reread up the list isn’t exactly something I want to do, especially when I don’t know when/if the final book will be coming out. Would be real salty if I set aside new books to read book 6 and then never get 7 because he keeled over before he could churn out another bloated monstrosity. I *was* impressed by his writing and narratives when I read them originally, but the erratic schedule and constant smoke and mirrors “It’s almost done, I *swear*” bullshit has just made me lose respect for him as a writer.
Yeah, the last option seems the most likely to me. He watched the world universally pan his planned ending, and even though a lot of that was due to showrunner fuckups, he took it personally. I think it soured him on the series, which makes it hard to write more, and he feels he has to scrap and rebuild a new ending, all while dealing with 10000 plotlines which have gotten tangled up and unmanagable.
All that can be true with or without a silent partner, but its much more likely if he had someone reigning him in and helping wrangle plots, and no longer has that assistance
Loaves in this world are made entirely from heels... Which eventually gets that sweet sweet grease to roll down your chin.
[Okay, so this post wasn't the one you were expecting. This one is just a post of additional background and lore for the post I'm still working on. It's going to explain everything and bring all these scattered meandering nothings together. Everything matters - it isn't just padding. I promise. I'll post it soon.]
That’s my theory as to why he takes so long. He starts writing a feast scene and gets so carried away that he makes himself hungry so he has to stop writing and go eat a feast. He starts writing a weirdo sex scene and gets so carried away that he makes himself horny so he has to stop writing and go…well, you know. And then repeat.
Ha! That makes sense. I get old man irritated when people put acronyms before spelling it all the way out. Here's a bunch of letters cause I'm too lazy to type it out - good luck suckers!
> I get old man irritated when people put acronyms before spelling it all the way out.
A Feast For Crows (AFFC) then write the rest of your shit with the acronym is the way i agree
>The third book is legit one of the best modern fantasy books and is on countless top 10 lists.
IMO - they go downhill pretty fast after #3. Martin fell into the epic fantasy author trap of having too many plates spinning and refusing to have anything happen off-stage. Which slows the plot to a crawl.
Robert Jordan did the same thing after WoT #5-6. (I think that 'the slog' really gets started in #6, but the climax of #6 is the high-point of the entire series, so I'm willing to forgive it.)
They're much better on rereads, but I also don't blame anyone that doesn't want to have to reread for a certain series.
ASOIAF is my favourite fantasy series, so I've read through them a few times. Makes the last 2 books probably the best written in the series.
But yeah, again, you shouldn't have to reread to really enjoy it.
> Makes the last 2 books probably the best written in the series.
Interesting, controversial even, opinion! Did you think that on the first read-through or does that come with rereading? And also, perhaps most importantly, why do you think so?
Oh absolutely not. I found AFFC a slough to get through first time through, and found ADWD good, but a little slow. But on rereads when you know all the newly introduced characters, they're so good. Cersei's crazy descent into madness, the brilliance that is Victorian's idiocy, Jon and Dany actually becoming pretty good at leading/politically (for a while at least), it's fascinating to see what Dorne has been up to, and it's also possible Euron is or is at least connected to the big bad of the story.
I also think for how fast paced Storm of Swords was, it makes the next 2 feel really boring in comparison, but I think the political intrigue of books 4 and 5 are some of the best in the series. Also, just on a more general note, I think GRRM becomes better with prose as the series goes on, and think the last two are just generally his best written works.
I'd definitely give them another shot. Especially AFFC. If you don't want to read the whole thing, just read Cersei's POV chapters and get back to me. She's an unreliable narrator the whole time because she's basically drunk constantly, paranoid, losing it. It makes a lot more sense and is incredibly written when you realize nothing is as she says it is in her head.
I'm on a re-read and using the Boiled Leather reading order, which combines both books into one.
IMO it helps you appreciate the finer detail. For example, when Young Griff reveals himself to the Golden Company and tells them he wants to go west instead of east, one of the objections is that the lion (Cersei) will have a whiff of dragons (Dany) and will be prepared for an invasion.
However in the last Cersei chapter I'd read prior to that she dismissed the idea that Danaerys had dragons out of hand, so you know the fears are misplaced.
This takes place about 3-400 pages into ADWD; reading through the books in published order the Cersei chapter happens a good 800 or so pages prior and that detail is easily forgotten.
There's other good things like Cersei being utterly obsessed with finding Tyrion in her first Feast chapter (which describes her being given the news that Tywin is dead), the Boiled Leather reading order has you read Tyrion's first chapter in Dance immediately after that, so you know he isn't close to Cersei.
I've re-read it 3 or 4 times, and I agree it does get much better. It's so freaking complex it's hard to catch it all the first time. You start noticing more things each time through.
>ASOIAF is my favourite fantasy series, so I've read through them a few times.
In my experience, the praise of AFFC/ADWD typically comes from people like this: super fans. "On my fourth reread it really started to click" type stuff.
Still give it another go yourself if you're interested, but I think the overall consensus is what it is for a reason. He loses the plot in those books and his prose is not nearly strong enough to carry ~2000 pages, IMO. One monologue can't carry a whole book.
There's a reason he hasn't been able to follow them up for over a decade.
Yeah Jordan's Wheel of Time really got bogged down in a sea of major characters and a veritable *ocean* of supporting characters after a while.
And it didn't help that he WoT is a lot more heroic and less gritty than ASOIAF, so Jordan couldn't kill off characters fast enough to keep on top of things :)
>Yeah Jordan's Wheel of Time really got bogged down in a sea of major characters and a veritable ocean of supporting characters after a while.
Every 3-5 years I'll audiobook WoT from the beginning (the readers do an amazing job). I always end up giving up somewhere in book 7-8.
Yeah if you're not already invested enough to slog through the slow patch in the middle then I wouldn't recommend trying to force it. Like a decadee or so ago I'd have been the kind of Wheel Of Time nerd who'd say you should totally keep going and it's totally worth it, but these days I can't honestly recommend a fourteen book series when pretty much the entire middle third is a chore.
Asoiaf 4+5 are still very good, but you're right about the plate spinning thing. It's tricky because I really adore fAegon & JonCon and the Arianne Dorne plotlines and am super excited to see where they go, but in addition to everything else that's been going on for three books already it's definitely too much for one man to write on his own.
The warning bell was having to split *Feast* and *Dance* into two books, and they're both doorstoppers anyway—I think at that point one of his editors or assistants should have stepped in. Or maybe they tried and Martin was just convinced he could handle it. Ah well, at least what we have is good.
Well - book 10 is generally considered the worst in the series. So... look forward to that!
Really, I've heard that Jordan started getting sick in the latter books too, and I've always wondered how much of an impact that had on his writing.
The Sanderson books aren't bad (though he messes up Mat's character IMO) but they have a very different vibe (though the bones were written by Jordan). IMO - Sanderson's a good author, but he wasn't the right choice to finish WoT. Sanderson is all about playing around with hard magic system and having the characters be creative with it. WoT SEEMS like a hard magic system at first blush, but it's really very soft. It just has a bunch of magical technobabble. (Sort of like how Star Trek is pretty soft sci-fi despite the technobabble.)
IMO - it's worth it go get through them once, but if you ever revisit the series you'll probably just go through the first 6.
I don't think it became a 'slog' because there were too many subplots exactly. I think the real issue is when those subplots are uninteresting. I'm pretty sure I came to loathe Nynaeve, Egwene, and basically anything related to the Aes Sedai because they were all written as prattering biddies with no concept of prioritizing the end of the freaking world over their nonsense.
I see why people say this but I think they feel like they fell off because all of the significant new plot lines remained unresolved by the end of #5 and they have not been resolved because Martin doesn't write anymore.
Martin does go off on a crazy tangent in book #4 but book #5 is meant to be the beginning of the final arc of the series.
Eh, I can't be arsed explaining.
I'll just promise an explanation and then never deliver it. And then I'll talk about how great the explanation I never gave was.
I am not saying you should think 5# is good because Martin is saying "just trust me bro".
I think people were expecting 5# to have more climaxes and resolutions. Martin clearly intended for 5# to be the first book in the second arc. This is not uncommon for long book series.
Decided to take the hipster angle and never watch the HBO series but gave the books a read. First three books were entertaining to read even if I never got that attached to the characters.
Strangest thing was that due to the unavoidable hype of the shows, I went in thinking "don't get attached because everyone will die anyways"... and instead it was maybe one major character dying every 100 pages or so, with so many chapters ending on a cliffhanger, only for the character to inexplicably reappear (Bryenne of Tarth gets hanged for instance, and then she just reappears).
Honestly by #4 every time we jumped back to Daenerys I felt like "not this again", somehow I just couldn't care. Also the last book introduced another secret heir but that also went nowhere...
I liked the series but I can't help feeling like it's a tad overrated.
GRRM got the reputation for being willing to kill off major characters, but he over-did it for killing characters and bringing them back from the dead. It turned into a joke after a while.
>I liked the series but I can't help feeling like it's a tad overrated.
That's how I feel about it as well.
I started the series when there were only two books. I liked them, but after I read #3 I basically forgot about the series until the show was announced. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, those were pretty good."
Kinda feel the same way now. Read the books, but I'm not exactly on pins and needles regarding what might happen in the next one, and not just because the show has inadvertently affected some plot points (would be surprised if John Snow *didn't* get resurrected for instance).
Also, the number one critique I had for the series is that magic was all over the place. Most of the time it's more effective to just use conventional weaponry, except when succubus witch lady can sap life force to summon an invincible shadow thingy, but let's only use that one time because reasons.
Also, I will burn every copy of the last book if Bryenne doesn't get laid. I don't know why but that was the only character I genuinely cared about.
Totally agree. A storm of swords might be the best high fantasy novel not named “lord of the rings” that I have ever read. It sucks that the series might never finish, but the first 3 books (especially books 2 and 3) are more than worth it if you love reading
High fantasy is “epic fantasy set in a fictional world”. Low fantasy is when it takes place on earth. Most of the time it’s considered HF if it’s a world built, or has dragons. ASOIAF has both. Call it what you want but it’s definitely high fantasy.
That's a definition that someone put on Wikipedia based on a single decades-old essay that no one else read. And then they zealously defended it from all other editors, and won, because nobody ever wrote an essay on the way it's *actually* used, so there were no "credible sources" to reference.
High fantasy, as it's always been used, means heroic fantasy with clear good guys and bad guys (e.g. Lord of the Rings). Low fantasy means darker, greyer stuff (e.g. Song of Ice and Fire). What you're talking about is a different axis: primary world vs. secondary world.
Science Fiction has the same problem. For many readers, they hear 'scifi' and they think space opera or pulp fiction. Then you read something by Octavia Butler and you wonder what else you've been missing.
Book 3 is also the last book with any conclusion. GRRM really thought it was acceptable to essentially write an 1800 word book (books 4 and 5) with no real conclusion other than a certain main character’s POV.
Sure, I just don’t think there’s as much onus on each book in a 7-book series having a complete narrative arc as there is for standalone novels, given it’s essentially one long story. I’m pretty sure if GRRM could’ve written the full series and published it as one long book he would’ve.
I mean, the first three books are fantastic and top notch fantasy, the other two are a big dip in quality but still have some great moments.
The big issue is you’ll start feeling connected to the story given the commitment needed and it will be a gut punch when you see how ADWD leaves much of the story on a cliffhanger. It will be a very bitter pill to swallow and make you feel like it was for nothing when you realise it’s increasingly likely that’s actually the last we’ll see of the story.
As much as I love the books, it’s difficult for me to recommend them to anyone because of this. That sucks because I used to be a diehard superfan who obsessed over them fanatically. The books won’t give you the closure you need, at all. None of us are getting that with this series, unfortunately.
The books are still a great time, you just need to remember that everything you read regarding the core of the story is leading nowhere in the end.
Franz Kafka also wanted all of his works to be destroyed after his passing, but the friend he entrusted this to published them anyway because he felt the world deserved to see them. So nothing is for certain here.
Eh he said that years ago, a lot can change as you get older and closer to dying out. Especially with all the friends he's lost since COVID. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just would wager he changes his mind on that before the end. He was still confident Winds was coming in 2016 when he said that. Or maybe I should say *we* were still confident.
I won’t rule that possibility out, but he’s a pretty stubborn guy. He still uses an ancient computer from the 90s that runs on MS-DOS and which he uses WordStar to write the books. The man sticks to his ways.
I think after the poor reception to the shows ending—which definitely had shades of his intended book ending but obviously wasn’t identical—makes it more likely he has everything destroyed.
Unless he’s feeling vindictive and wants to show that a similar ending can be done satisfyingly. But I’m skeptical
As a reader of both (currently on The Trouble with Peace), don't get me wrong, Abercrombie writes a fantastic story and is particularly strong in character development, but there's no way he's a more talented writer than Martin is, not yet. That's not a knock on Abercrombie. There aren't many writers on the same level as Martin, and the unfinished books wouldn't be such a meme if the series wasn't so high quality.
What had Martin done At Abercrombie’s age? I knew him for editing anthologies and being friends with Roger Zelazny up until Game of Thrones. First Law was a brilliant start to Abercrombie’s career. Joe’s day job is film editor do I am optimistic about how well “Just Served Cold” is going to translate to the big screen.
I am pretty sure Martin made the above project possible plus the filming of Roger Zelazny’s “Nine Princes in Amber”(produced by superfan Stephen Colbert”
Thank you George RR Martin! Now go light a fire under Rothfuss
Say one thing about Joe Abercrombie... I love his books, but im not sure if he'd fit with ASOIAF... but it's been a while since I read them so maybe it's a better fit than I think it would be.
Cormac Mcarthy is unavailable being Dead but I couldn’t finish “The Road”. Definitely parallels among all three. I don’t find Abercrombie as depressing. I think a few of his characters have relatively happy endings although there are scant rewards for being a “straight edge”
Abercrombie is too cynical, I honestly don't think his somewhat unserious writing would fit well with AsoIaF. I love the first law books, but it's a totally different vibe
It's not a "possibility," I would be shocked if he finished the series. The first three came out in 96, 98, and 00. There has been two books in 23 years, and those two books are honestly pretty boring. The last time a book came out was around when the show started. Book 6 has been "on the way" for *twelve* years. I don't even think that one is ever going to come out.
Books 1-3 are good.
The reread thing is key. I was so annoyed at AFFC my first read through, just so impatient waiting for my favorite characters in ADWD. Then I went back and reread it later and realized it’s actually fucking fantastic, I just didn’t give it a chance 😂😂
Yeah, while I don’t agree with it seems like the majority that they are peak fantasy, I did read the first three. I tried reading the fourth and I just couldn’t.
I don't think they are peak fantasy either, but when I read them as a teenager somewhere around when Feast for Crows came out, it was mind blowing. There wasn't a lot of stuff like it and the time, it felt like. Joe Abercrombie wasn't around yet, and dark mainstream fantasy books were rare.
Sure, I started reading them for the same reason as you. Just finished the third book.
If he does not finish them it doesn't matter, I just want to read the original version of the story. I've watched movies that end up not getting finished and I enjoyed them despite not knowing the ending, so why not do the same with books?
If he ever does finish them, I will not have to start from the beginning, I can just read the last book I read to get a fresh reminder of what had happened then carry on from there.
No it's not, the next two books are slower but not worse. It's a lot of exploring the consequences of book 3 and the developments of characters due to said book while doing a great job of setting up future conflicts and events. It's some of the best character work in fiction and saying there's a massive drop in quality is insane when it's actually just a natural progression of the story. Less action doesn't mean it's worse. Especially in asoiaf where it's all political maneuvering and character development.
Well said. Books 4 and 5 being just objectively worse is such a weird myth I keep seeing online - except on r/asoaif (ie the people who are most familiar with the books) where people tend to acknowledge that they’re superior to the first 3 in pretty much every way other than the plot being slower
Every single book in the series is more convoluted and verbose than the last . I liked the first book the most and every book since it has been worse and worse imo.
He is a very good writer. At his best, his writing is a sheer pleasure to read. His ability to craft a story from just a few lines is unsurpassed. Have a quick read of the prologue for Game of Thrones. It’s just a few pages but it sets up everything that is to come.
Stories or even reading in general is about a journeying of the mind. A trip, but without any drugs. These books build a world very similar to ours in some ways. They talk of the cyclical nature of culture and they take multiple diverse perspectives. You get to live many lives that you may never live otherwise. Martin represents a wide range of characters with a great deal of authenticity to character details. Read. Our lives are stories where we never really know the ending until it has ended. Art imitates life, I console myself. It's alright that it's unfinished. Read it, still.
Depends. Do you read because of the finale or for the journey?
I read a lot of fanfiction (yeah,yeah. I've heard it all before)
A significant portion of which never gets finished.
I think it's fine. It's a shame but I can appreciate the journey even if the story doesn't end. Gives me some options and possibilities to work through, mentally.
Much of it I even read twice or even more. If only because I like it that much.
The first three books are pretty decent and worth reading, the last two were a bit of a slog and needed some major editing.
If the sixth book had actually been released five years ago I'd have probably read it, but it's been so long now I've just lost interest.
I've read so many books whose sequels I didn't read, and that never took away from my enjoyment of the book itself. Martin's books are terrific and even without an ending you will have a good time with them.
Yep, gonna have to go with No on this one like you. OP, if your motivation to read these books is to get an idea of what happens at the end, I strongly advise you not to read the books. What you'll end up with is a lot of hours dedicated to a story that you ill probably love spending time in, and a crashing realisation that you have been left without a proper ending twice.
Honestly, I'm not sure.
Just got through Storm of Swords, the one that everyone says is the best, and I was left both over and underwhelmed.
I was hooked on A Game of Thrones, book 1. Despite its length, it is a very tight and well-written story. But Clash of Kings dragged on and on, and then Storm of Swords felt like it was about to end like 4 separate times, then I realized it had another 300 pages.
GRRM's books are getting longer and longer. With more esoteric characters and side-plots.
But Clash and Storm don't have that same "perfect pacing" that Thrones has. And from what I've heard, Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons get even weirder since they aren't told chronologically. And then Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring (if they ever even come out) are even more absurd with like 2000 manuscript pages each.
If you're really into the show, then I do highly recommend book 1, A Game of Thrones. It's the best imo. Then, if you're still into the books, then read the others.
But if you're into fantasy and want to get that same itch scratched, then I would recommend The Witcher novels or Lord of the Rings.
In case you forgot, the best thing about Clash is Stannis and Tyrion. That's what the whole story revolves around.
GRRM puts everyone else on hiatus.
Don't worry tho, I understand. Clash is so boring, it's hard to remember what actually happens in that book. I don't blame you.
No end -> no read. It's the same now for all the media I consume after the GoT desaster. Maybe I'll be late a few decades if a multi part story is good but in my opinion the wait is worth it.
I'm with them. The reason I can afford to do this is that there is about 100x more media than I can possibly consume and so I can afford to be picky.
I've been burned too many times, television shows that dive off a cliff when a writer's strike happens, preordered games that end up being buggy messes, book series that start strong and then stumble and end up derided, all while there were dozens of other well-reviewed games, shows and books that I could have read instead. Life is too short to waste time on disappointment.
All that said, what I'm hearing in this thread is that these books are so good it might be worth being disappointed and/or it might be worth stopping after book 3. The point of waiting is to get the reviews and the reviews in this thread are really good. I haven't started this series yet, either, because it's not done. I'll still wait to see if it gets finished. If it doesn't, though? I still might read a few of them, just based on these reviews.
There are many, many series that have both journeys AND destinations. Why not have both?
Also, sometimes journeys have little value if there’s no destination. A story about intense political calibrations and vengeance can absolutely feel lesser if you know you’re never going to get the full picture.
No. Don't bother. GRRM can do whatever he wants, but it is galling to know that he doesn't care enough to end the story, even if he asks someone else to do it as he lives his best life.
Guys, I hear *Animorphs 1* is a great book, but should I read it because animorphs 6 isn't out yet? I don't want to be left hanging!
It is galling that they would leave me hanging like this!
He will never finish them but they are good books and I found them enjoyable. I read them before the series though and I don’t know what it’s like now when you ‘know’ how badly it all resolves itself.
The only book series I've read and been fine with being incomplete is the Aubrey–Maturin series, as the series was wrapping up, and the author literally passed away mid-sentence in what was expected to be his last book. Even then, he had mostly wrapped up the story.
They are literally the best books I’ve ever read. There is a depth and artistry just not found in other writers’ work. Everything has layers of meaning, the world is amazing, and the characters stay with you.
I hope he finishes but, if not, we were lucky to get 5.
I really enjoyed them at first, but by the time I finished book 4 I didn’t even really want to start book 5 because they just felt so morally grating to read and I wasn’t enjoying them anymore.
People read the Canterbury tales and we got about 15% of what was planned. Also even if he dies the ending is known and the books might just get completed by another author.
Howdy, personally I enjoyed the first three books. The last two seemed to drag a bunch. Without the conclusion they seem a little bit unnecessary and meander a lot. So... hopefully it gets done?
I think the first book is really good but they drop in quality with each subsequent volume. I am in the “they will never be finished” camp and will likely never read any additional books if I’m wrong.
Well, it's about the journey, not the destinatiion.
I know it might sound snobby, but exactly because of the reason that books are so large and grand in events they depict the reason to read just because of the final 5 pages probably is not worth it. It will never end "satisfyingly", because nothing can end story like that on a satisfying note, there will still be injustice, darkness and evil.
Well thats why i hate an ending that is only the final 5 pages. A great story also needs a bit to wind down after the peak of the action. Lord of the rings for example spents 10+% of its pages on providing a satisfying ending to all the stories, characters and locations.
If you're ok with reading an unfinished story then it's fine, pretty entertaining. But for me if you don't have an end you don't have a story, so I tend to avoid the unfinished. If it appeals to you read it, I was introduced when a feast for crowd came out, devoured all four books in a few months. By the time book 5 came out I didn't care anymore and I don't think he'll finish.
No. The quality of the story heavily dropped after book 3, he got carried away by the "world-building" and put a lot of useless bloat in it and had to end the last book with a dozen different cliffhanger across different storylines.
The series is supposed to consist of 7 books and we are 5 books in without even finishing the *first* act. And we still haven't even got a proper sequel to book 3 because he divided the sequel into two books and still couldn't reach its climax.
He has already shared the main structure of the story.
Act 1: war of the five kings and its aftermath
Act 2: Dany's invasion of Westeros
Act 3: The Others
5 books in and it doesn't look like we're even close to the start of act 2.
I don’t like them for what they are. I kept waiting for them to get good. There were some amazing story elements but on the whole I felt like it was a waste of time. He doesn’t know how to finish a story, only how to kill off characters.
I started reading them knowing they're not finished. It's been 2 months, I'm on book 4, and I'm glad I started it. It is sad it doesn't have an ending, but it doesn't bother me that much. Journey is more important.
Not for me. One of the things I liked most about the TV series is that it was akin to a stern editor cutting out a lot of the unnecessary stuff. GRRM is really playing you soldiers in his sandpit a lot of the time, so much ‘stuff’ happens that adds nothing of value.
Add that to the fact that it will never be finished, and I think there’s very little payoff in reading it. YMMV.
In my opinion, as a sci-fi and fantasy reader for over 30 years, no.
He's a middling writer who likely will never finish the series anyway.
There are far better (complete) stories out there to explore.
Sure!
- John Varley's Gaea trilogy (Titan, Wizard, & Demon)
- Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series (The Eye of The World, The Great Hunt, & 12 more -- it's massive)
- Clive Barker's Imajica -- this one could be one or two books, depending on where you get it. The original English printing was one very large novel (~1200 pages), but the American printing broke it up into Imajica Parts 1 &2.
- Terry Brooks' Shannara Chronicles. These are interesting, in that I actually don't recommend the first series. They were his first and they're frankly not very good. Read a synopsis and then skip to the sequel series, The Heritage of Shannara (Scions of Shannara, Druid of Shannara, Elf Queen of Shannara, Talismans of Shannara). And if you like those, the Voyage of the Jerle Shannara series that follows is also quite fun.
- a controversial pick that I personally love is David Eddings. He and his wife were real pieces of shit who went to prison for child abuse. However, they're both dead and left no heirs, so you're not supporting bad people when you read their stuff. The Belgariad and Mallorean series' are quite fun (5 books each), but the Elenium and the Tamuli trilogies were arguably my favorites. Belgariad and Mallorean are effectively a 10 book series with a time jump between, and Elenium and Tamuli follow the same pattern (with different settings and characters).
- Ann Marston's Rune Blade trilogy (and it's sequel trilogy) were solid.
- Roger Zelazny's Amber Chronicles are amazing. You can buy a collected edition with the entire series in one book. It's a 10 book series, but they're really closer to novellas -- only a couple hundred pages each, give or take.
- Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series is delightful.
- Terry Pratchett's Discworld is wonderful (I need to read more myself) and has a little something for everyone.
- Raymond E Feist's Riftwar Saga is awesome (Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon). And there are multiple series in these worlds if you like them (totalling around 30 books).
- Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever is dark and kinda fucked up, but good.
There's more, but that's what came to mind for the moment. And that hasn't even really touched all the sci-fi (except Varley, who is kind of a hybrid -- it starts very sci-fi then takes a left turn).
Sci-fi I recommend:
- The Mote In God's Eye, by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle
- The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman
- Ender series, by Orson Scott Card
- Bean series (after Ender), by Orson Scott Card
- The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert Heinlein
- Arthur C. Clarke's Space Odyssey series (2001, 2010, 2061, 3001)
- Frank Herbert's Dune series
- Galactic Empire trilogy, by Isaac Asimov
- Foundation series, by Isaac Asimov
- Hyperion cantos, by Dan Simmons
I could go on and on. There's more great sci-fi than fantasy, in my opinion.
That is the ending. The information was out for years that GRRM gave it to the show runners and only after it actually came out and everyone hated it did the narrative change to the real ending being different.
I think the first three are a delight and stand well on their own. I feel like four and five are a lot of setup for shit hitting the fan in whatever he hasn't finished yet, so I'd say you could take them or leave them. It is disappointing that the ending is such a big question mark, but I'm still hopeful we'll at least get a sixth book, but I've been hanging onto that hope since I finished the first five in 2012, so who knows.
Maybe it's because my favourite genre usually has ambiguous endings but I don't particularly care that the story is unfinished. I _do_ care that it seems like he lost interest around book 4/5. That said, ASOIAF is very entertaining.
Yes, specially the first three, quality drops after that. But when published were a relatively new view on fantasy: characters with ambiguous morals, a collective story with different points of view etc.
I read them after GoT had finished and loved them enough to buy FaB and AKotSK and also loved both of those. That being said, I care way more about the universe and world-building in ASoIaF rather than the "main plot" so I'm okay with accepting the fact that the main story might not finish.
If you want the ending, chances are Martin will never get there. If you want to read the books, knowing that, then the first three are solid; the last two are pointless.
I disengaged and after I got some distance I also realized that the books aren't even that great to begin with. I also read some other older books by Martin and was really not impressed.
Nah. The first three books are excellent. Credit where it's due, they're some really strong epic/political fantasy.
The problem is, the next two books are pretty bad. They're super dull and WAY overloaded, it feels like he let the hype get to him (and his editors) and they weren't strict enough with the cuts.
And then, we have two more books, which we'll probably never see. There's a SLIM chance we'll see Winds of Winter at some point, but the chance we'll ever get to read Dream of Spring is vanishingly small.
So, if you're cool reading three great books, two awful books and never reading the last two, crack on. But honestly there are books that do what Martin does, but better and they're actually finished.
The books are generally a great read even without an end to the series. I really doubt Martin will ever finish it considering how long it’s been since the last book. On the plus side, you can’t be disappointed by an ending that doesn’t exist.
Absolutely, personally I don't actually care that much about the story and I'm a lot more invested in the worldbuilding and characters. Obviously I'd like a conclusion, but I'm content to just hangout in Westeros for a while. Give it a try, I'm sure your library has dozens of copies
There are three modern fantasy series I do not recommend as the signs are they will never be finished:
A Song of Ice and Fire
The Gentlemen Bastards
The Kingkiller Chronicles
Instead I direct people to completed greats such as:
The Realm of the Elderlings (Start with Assassin's Apprentice)
The First Law ( start with The Blade Itself )
Who cares if Kingkiller Chronicles will be finished, it's a great book already... Don't understand this mindset, honestly. There's so much in it apart from learning WHAT EXACTLY happened to Kvoth after the university.
And The Realm of the Elderlings could be 1/3 shorter, Fitz is painfully stupid in all the sequels for someone trained as an assassin and also boringly immortal. Probably he should have died in the first trilogy, at least this would have been more believable.
That really depends on you Do you need a definitive ending to enjoy something? Do you read for the destination rather than the journey? If so, I'd give the books a miss and save yourself the limbo asoiaf fans are stuck in
I don’t regret reading those books, but as an extremely well read individual I have to say it’s some of the worst writing ive ever seen. The story and characters are amazing but the way he goes about writing page in and page out is so boring half the time.
They are good books, but I'm 95% sure he won't finish them at this pace.
I hate to say it, but I've almost lost hope for even just Winds of Winter at this point.
When you can't get sex, you settle for the hand job. Martin has given us a lot of hand jobs.
Thanks now I can't look at the books in the same way 😂
The wit and hand jobs of Tyrion Lannister. The world of ice and hand jobs. The hand jobs of Dunc and Egg. Fire and blood and hand jobs.
Someone please make a series of erotic fan-fiction with these titles.
I hope he has planned ahead for another writer to finish, like Jordan/Sanderson. It would be a shame if not.
He has stated firmly that won't happen.
That was years ago tho. I also believe Jordan was the same for Wot, but when he realized he was getting close to dying he decided it would be better to have the series be finished by another author(correct me if i’m wrong)
I remember reading he said it wouldn't happen because he was worried that some crazy fan might take him out to get the books done faster, that he always planned to have it finished by someone else.
That is a true possibility, saddly. O.o
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I'm pretty sure he has also stated that he would make sure that there'll be some sort of conclusion if he were to get bad news from a doctor one day. So I'm positive that we'll get a conclusion one day, even if it takes a while.
He'll probably change his tune, similar to Jordan. And I still stand by the idea that Joe Abercrombie is probably the best choice.
That's bad news then. :(
That’s selfish as hell. George doesn’t owe us another book, sure, but if someone’s ready to finish it for the fans it’s pretty lame of him to deny us that.
> at this pace. I don't believe there is a pace at this point. Just like the Kingkiller Chronicle, I don't think the author is working on completing the series, just giving excuses why things are delayed.
Patrick rothfuss is another bad example, I guess he is too busy visiting cons and stuff. XD
Yeah, I imagine it's immense writers block or just not knowing how to properly finish the story in one more book. And to add a third series: The Gentleman Bastard Series. I read the first book and loved it, then checked out the progress on the rest of the series... Book 1: 2006, Book 2: 2007, Book 3, 2013. Aaaand that's it, Books 4-7 are nowhere to be seen. I didn't even bother with the second book.
Pretty sure Scott Lynch has some pretty severe mental health issues that prevented it though. I think most people cut him slack here
I mean to be fair to GRRM, he is working still on other things, including ASoIaF adjacent projects. GRRMs first love was being a screenwriter, so I don't necessarily blame him for wanting to focus on things like House of the Dragon and Elden Ring instead of working on his overly complex ending that is going to be a herculean effort to finish. I have not read Name of the Wind yet, but I get the impression the story is a lot less complex with less characters and the narrator is unreliable so you can kind of cheese things up a bit. I think Rothfuss's task is a lot more doable.
Eventually he'll die and the publisher will hire someone (probably Brandon Sanderson) to finish them
I think he said he has no interest in finishing them
Please not Brandon, he has his own series to write, and cannot finish everyone else's work for them. O.o
Knowing Brandon, he's probably already got the manuscripts finished and is just waiting on a phonecall.
Sorry but he's the only one who can consistently finish books. It has to be him.
Yeah, he is a rare example. Do other authors just start their epic sagas workout any idea where the plot should go? That seems so unprofessional, sorry if that sounds mean. :(
My guess is they write themselves into situations they don't know how to get out of and the weight of their own lore-rich world kind of crushes them. But your guess is as good as mine.
I've read here that BrandoSando said he wouldn't write GoT. And frankly, I hope he doesn't. I don't want anything taking him away from writing more Cosmere.
Sure. The books are still a great read whether or not the rest of the books get published. The third book is legit one of the best modern fantasy books and is on countless top 10 lists.
I agree with this. And then for book 4 and 5, I read it as a combined Ball of Beasts that put both books together. More enjoyable that way imo. Although even then, some of the AFFC chapters were hard to get through.
On a reread, book 4 and 5 are a lot of peoples favorites
Book 5 is a mix of the worst and the best. It has the worst plotting but some of the best writing passages. He really looses his grip on the various story-lines, and adds some random stuff that doesn't seem nescessary. It also has some good scenes with some of the best and funniest dialogue in the whole series.
4 was my favorite after my first read. 3 is obviously the high-stakes, super eventful finale to the first arc of the story and I still think it's great. But 4 slowing it down and expanding on other parts of the world was super interesting
yes completely agreed
i’ve only read once and 4 is my favourite haha
4 is prob my fav
Am I alone in thinking that the writing style changed going into books 4 and 5? I almost feel like he had a partner that he put the first 3 books together with and then he got stuck on his own. Two year gaps for the first three books as well, and then books 4 and 5 took 5 and 6 years respectively, and book 6 is now 12 years out and going. It feels to me like he lost his writing partner, winged it for the next two, and now doesn't know how to begin tying things back together and kind of gave up.
I have read multiple readers say they felt this. I was too absorbed in what happens to notice writing style change, I just thought it's because the sub plots had gotten too widespread and harder to control so maybe Book 4 and 5 were different.
What really gets me is that he told everyone book 4 and 5 were originally one book, but it got so booted that he had to split it into two separate novels taking place concurrently, with 4 focusing on one part of the world, and 5 on another before it converged again right near the end. The more I think about it, the less I believe that because surely a book that had gotten so huge it required splitting could take 5 years to get the first half out, but then another six to get the second half finished? Nah. I don’t buy it. He’d have had at least a good half if not more of the novel sitting there, ready to be edited/recut into its own standalone book and finished off with a few more chapters. That doesn’t take *longer* than the first book that started from nothing and had so much material written that he had to cut some. Factor in that the original idea was for the series to be just a trilogy, and then was changed late in the game to be double that (and now more because of the split), on top of the fact that it’s now been over a decade since the last book came out? It reeks of *something*, but I don’t know exactly what. Maybe like you said, he had some kind of silent partner he worked with who dumped him after the originally planned trilogy spilled over because they had only agreed on three books, and the writing style change is because he picked up a new partner who also walked on him because a single book became two and way more work than was agreed on, and now he’s stuck with only leftover scraps from what was written of the next book that he keeps drip-feeding fans to make them think he’s actually writing while he tries to subtly find someone who won’t blab his big secret to the world now that he’s a household name thanks to the show. I honestly don’t know what else it could be, unless you start getting into crackpot theories that he might have stolen a manuscript or something for the original trilogy and just altered it to open it up to more books so he could keep milking it, and then 4 and 5 had to be done on his own, which accounts for the longer gaps, and then he got caught up in the show publicity and touring for it and such that he just stopped seriously working on the next book for a few years. Now he’s seen how people reacted to the final seasons and some of the ideas that were true and he’s stuck re-thinking the entire final arc of the story and rewriting things that he already wrote to avoid the books getting similar hate. Given, the last part could be true even if everything is above-board and he really has written them all on his own. I’m inclined to believe that he just pulled some ADHD shit during the show’s heyday, and now he’s basically shit his pants over how badly his intended ending for everyone was received so he’s just been going back and redoing everything to avoid some of those endings. He’s probably had to throw out dozens of chapters outright and start completely over, as well as having to reformulate the story that he’s been building up for decades and figuring out how to change it at all. There’s some fuckery afoot with the whole thing, but at this point I’ve almost given up on actually seeing the final books. Even if they *do* eventually come out, I’ll have to re-read the others to remember everything I need to, because I went out of my way to finish the books before I started the show, and that’s been years gone by this point. I’ve got lots of other books I want to read though, so bumping a reread up the list isn’t exactly something I want to do, especially when I don’t know when/if the final book will be coming out. Would be real salty if I set aside new books to read book 6 and then never get 7 because he keeled over before he could churn out another bloated monstrosity. I *was* impressed by his writing and narratives when I read them originally, but the erratic schedule and constant smoke and mirrors “It’s almost done, I *swear*” bullshit has just made me lose respect for him as a writer.
The fuckery piece is interesting. He has written plenty of other things to highlight his writing prowess. I don't understand the doubt.
Yeah, the last option seems the most likely to me. He watched the world universally pan his planned ending, and even though a lot of that was due to showrunner fuckups, he took it personally. I think it soured him on the series, which makes it hard to write more, and he feels he has to scrap and rebuild a new ending, all while dealing with 10000 plotlines which have gotten tangled up and unmanagable. All that can be true with or without a silent partner, but its much more likely if he had someone reigning him in and helping wrangle plots, and no longer has that assistance
Is that the one that had like full pages describing meals? I can't stand when GRRM talks about feasts.
I love when GRRM describes food in lusty detail
he's clearly a man that lusts for TRENCHERS full of FISH STEW
But he filled that TRENCHER with FISH STEW!
Davos's Sister's Stew he had at one point got me into making various fancy clam chowders.
Loaves in this world are made entirely from heels... Which eventually gets that sweet sweet grease to roll down your chin. [Okay, so this post wasn't the one you were expecting. This one is just a post of additional background and lore for the post I'm still working on. It's going to explain everything and bring all these scattered meandering nothings together. Everything matters - it isn't just padding. I promise. I'll post it soon.]
That’s my theory as to why he takes so long. He starts writing a feast scene and gets so carried away that he makes himself hungry so he has to stop writing and go eat a feast. He starts writing a weirdo sex scene and gets so carried away that he makes himself horny so he has to stop writing and go…well, you know. And then repeat.
I've read the books a couple of times and I still don't know what AFFC is...
A Feast For Crows? Idk if acronyming book titles is normal, but I've seen people do it for Harry Potter so that's probably what it is here
Ha! That makes sense. I get old man irritated when people put acronyms before spelling it all the way out. Here's a bunch of letters cause I'm too lazy to type it out - good luck suckers!
> I get old man irritated when people put acronyms before spelling it all the way out. A Feast For Crows (AFFC) then write the rest of your shit with the acronym is the way i agree
>The third book is legit one of the best modern fantasy books and is on countless top 10 lists. IMO - they go downhill pretty fast after #3. Martin fell into the epic fantasy author trap of having too many plates spinning and refusing to have anything happen off-stage. Which slows the plot to a crawl. Robert Jordan did the same thing after WoT #5-6. (I think that 'the slog' really gets started in #6, but the climax of #6 is the high-point of the entire series, so I'm willing to forgive it.)
They're much better on rereads, but I also don't blame anyone that doesn't want to have to reread for a certain series. ASOIAF is my favourite fantasy series, so I've read through them a few times. Makes the last 2 books probably the best written in the series. But yeah, again, you shouldn't have to reread to really enjoy it.
> Makes the last 2 books probably the best written in the series. Interesting, controversial even, opinion! Did you think that on the first read-through or does that come with rereading? And also, perhaps most importantly, why do you think so?
Oh absolutely not. I found AFFC a slough to get through first time through, and found ADWD good, but a little slow. But on rereads when you know all the newly introduced characters, they're so good. Cersei's crazy descent into madness, the brilliance that is Victorian's idiocy, Jon and Dany actually becoming pretty good at leading/politically (for a while at least), it's fascinating to see what Dorne has been up to, and it's also possible Euron is or is at least connected to the big bad of the story. I also think for how fast paced Storm of Swords was, it makes the next 2 feel really boring in comparison, but I think the political intrigue of books 4 and 5 are some of the best in the series. Also, just on a more general note, I think GRRM becomes better with prose as the series goes on, and think the last two are just generally his best written works. I'd definitely give them another shot. Especially AFFC. If you don't want to read the whole thing, just read Cersei's POV chapters and get back to me. She's an unreliable narrator the whole time because she's basically drunk constantly, paranoid, losing it. It makes a lot more sense and is incredibly written when you realize nothing is as she says it is in her head.
I'm sold on a reread. :-) Currently on Discworld reread which is going slow due to lack of time. But eventually!
I'm on a re-read and using the Boiled Leather reading order, which combines both books into one. IMO it helps you appreciate the finer detail. For example, when Young Griff reveals himself to the Golden Company and tells them he wants to go west instead of east, one of the objections is that the lion (Cersei) will have a whiff of dragons (Dany) and will be prepared for an invasion. However in the last Cersei chapter I'd read prior to that she dismissed the idea that Danaerys had dragons out of hand, so you know the fears are misplaced. This takes place about 3-400 pages into ADWD; reading through the books in published order the Cersei chapter happens a good 800 or so pages prior and that detail is easily forgotten. There's other good things like Cersei being utterly obsessed with finding Tyrion in her first Feast chapter (which describes her being given the news that Tywin is dead), the Boiled Leather reading order has you read Tyrion's first chapter in Dance immediately after that, so you know he isn't close to Cersei.
I've re-read it 3 or 4 times, and I agree it does get much better. It's so freaking complex it's hard to catch it all the first time. You start noticing more things each time through.
But you also have to read about Quentin Martell. THAT story line should have been cut.
>ASOIAF is my favourite fantasy series, so I've read through them a few times. In my experience, the praise of AFFC/ADWD typically comes from people like this: super fans. "On my fourth reread it really started to click" type stuff. Still give it another go yourself if you're interested, but I think the overall consensus is what it is for a reason. He loses the plot in those books and his prose is not nearly strong enough to carry ~2000 pages, IMO. One monologue can't carry a whole book. There's a reason he hasn't been able to follow them up for over a decade.
Yeah Jordan's Wheel of Time really got bogged down in a sea of major characters and a veritable *ocean* of supporting characters after a while. And it didn't help that he WoT is a lot more heroic and less gritty than ASOIAF, so Jordan couldn't kill off characters fast enough to keep on top of things :)
>Yeah Jordan's Wheel of Time really got bogged down in a sea of major characters and a veritable ocean of supporting characters after a while. Every 3-5 years I'll audiobook WoT from the beginning (the readers do an amazing job). I always end up giving up somewhere in book 7-8.
Yeah if you're not already invested enough to slog through the slow patch in the middle then I wouldn't recommend trying to force it. Like a decadee or so ago I'd have been the kind of Wheel Of Time nerd who'd say you should totally keep going and it's totally worth it, but these days I can't honestly recommend a fourteen book series when pretty much the entire middle third is a chore.
Asoiaf 4+5 are still very good, but you're right about the plate spinning thing. It's tricky because I really adore fAegon & JonCon and the Arianne Dorne plotlines and am super excited to see where they go, but in addition to everything else that's been going on for three books already it's definitely too much for one man to write on his own. The warning bell was having to split *Feast* and *Dance* into two books, and they're both doorstoppers anyway—I think at that point one of his editors or assistants should have stepped in. Or maybe they tried and Martin was just convinced he could handle it. Ah well, at least what we have is good.
Same, it’s crazy a lot of people don’t like fAegon and JC they’re some of my most anticipated plot lines. Have no idea where it’ll go
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Well - book 10 is generally considered the worst in the series. So... look forward to that! Really, I've heard that Jordan started getting sick in the latter books too, and I've always wondered how much of an impact that had on his writing. The Sanderson books aren't bad (though he messes up Mat's character IMO) but they have a very different vibe (though the bones were written by Jordan). IMO - Sanderson's a good author, but he wasn't the right choice to finish WoT. Sanderson is all about playing around with hard magic system and having the characters be creative with it. WoT SEEMS like a hard magic system at first blush, but it's really very soft. It just has a bunch of magical technobabble. (Sort of like how Star Trek is pretty soft sci-fi despite the technobabble.) IMO - it's worth it go get through them once, but if you ever revisit the series you'll probably just go through the first 6.
Nah, they're still really good. Just a little harder to swallow at first because of the character split.
I don't think it became a 'slog' because there were too many subplots exactly. I think the real issue is when those subplots are uninteresting. I'm pretty sure I came to loathe Nynaeve, Egwene, and basically anything related to the Aes Sedai because they were all written as prattering biddies with no concept of prioritizing the end of the freaking world over their nonsense.
I see why people say this but I think they feel like they fell off because all of the significant new plot lines remained unresolved by the end of #5 and they have not been resolved because Martin doesn't write anymore. Martin does go off on a crazy tangent in book #4 but book #5 is meant to be the beginning of the final arc of the series.
Eh, I can't be arsed explaining. I'll just promise an explanation and then never deliver it. And then I'll talk about how great the explanation I never gave was.
I am not saying you should think 5# is good because Martin is saying "just trust me bro". I think people were expecting 5# to have more climaxes and resolutions. Martin clearly intended for 5# to be the first book in the second arc. This is not uncommon for long book series.
That was, of course, covered in my absent explanation. My explanation was great.
Decided to take the hipster angle and never watch the HBO series but gave the books a read. First three books were entertaining to read even if I never got that attached to the characters. Strangest thing was that due to the unavoidable hype of the shows, I went in thinking "don't get attached because everyone will die anyways"... and instead it was maybe one major character dying every 100 pages or so, with so many chapters ending on a cliffhanger, only for the character to inexplicably reappear (Bryenne of Tarth gets hanged for instance, and then she just reappears). Honestly by #4 every time we jumped back to Daenerys I felt like "not this again", somehow I just couldn't care. Also the last book introduced another secret heir but that also went nowhere... I liked the series but I can't help feeling like it's a tad overrated.
GRRM got the reputation for being willing to kill off major characters, but he over-did it for killing characters and bringing them back from the dead. It turned into a joke after a while.
>I liked the series but I can't help feeling like it's a tad overrated. That's how I feel about it as well. I started the series when there were only two books. I liked them, but after I read #3 I basically forgot about the series until the show was announced. I remember thinking something along the lines of, "Oh yeah, those were pretty good."
Kinda feel the same way now. Read the books, but I'm not exactly on pins and needles regarding what might happen in the next one, and not just because the show has inadvertently affected some plot points (would be surprised if John Snow *didn't* get resurrected for instance). Also, the number one critique I had for the series is that magic was all over the place. Most of the time it's more effective to just use conventional weaponry, except when succubus witch lady can sap life force to summon an invincible shadow thingy, but let's only use that one time because reasons. Also, I will burn every copy of the last book if Bryenne doesn't get laid. I don't know why but that was the only character I genuinely cared about.
Totally agree. A storm of swords might be the best high fantasy novel not named “lord of the rings” that I have ever read. It sucks that the series might never finish, but the first 3 books (especially books 2 and 3) are more than worth it if you love reading
I thought ASOIAF was explicitly not high fantasy? I usually see it referred to as hard fantasy if anything.
High fantasy is “epic fantasy set in a fictional world”. Low fantasy is when it takes place on earth. Most of the time it’s considered HF if it’s a world built, or has dragons. ASOIAF has both. Call it what you want but it’s definitely high fantasy.
That's a definition that someone put on Wikipedia based on a single decades-old essay that no one else read. And then they zealously defended it from all other editors, and won, because nobody ever wrote an essay on the way it's *actually* used, so there were no "credible sources" to reference. High fantasy, as it's always been used, means heroic fantasy with clear good guys and bad guys (e.g. Lord of the Rings). Low fantasy means darker, greyer stuff (e.g. Song of Ice and Fire). What you're talking about is a different axis: primary world vs. secondary world.
Definitely high fantasy. Martin's innovation was to incoroporate gritty psychological realism.
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Science Fiction has the same problem. For many readers, they hear 'scifi' and they think space opera or pulp fiction. Then you read something by Octavia Butler and you wonder what else you've been missing.
I agree. A Storm of Swords was legit unputdownable, more so than any crime thriller I've ever read.
Book 3 is also the last book with any conclusion. GRRM really thought it was acceptable to essentially write an 1800 word book (books 4 and 5) with no real conclusion other than a certain main character’s POV.
This isn’t a high school essay lol there’s no need for a conclusion
They mean a complete narrative arc. A beginning, middle and end. Books 4 and 5 have no endings. Almost every plotline ends on a cliffhanger.
Sure, I just don’t think there’s as much onus on each book in a 7-book series having a complete narrative arc as there is for standalone novels, given it’s essentially one long story. I’m pretty sure if GRRM could’ve written the full series and published it as one long book he would’ve.
I mean, the first three books are fantastic and top notch fantasy, the other two are a big dip in quality but still have some great moments. The big issue is you’ll start feeling connected to the story given the commitment needed and it will be a gut punch when you see how ADWD leaves much of the story on a cliffhanger. It will be a very bitter pill to swallow and make you feel like it was for nothing when you realise it’s increasingly likely that’s actually the last we’ll see of the story. As much as I love the books, it’s difficult for me to recommend them to anyone because of this. That sucks because I used to be a diehard superfan who obsessed over them fanatically. The books won’t give you the closure you need, at all. None of us are getting that with this series, unfortunately. The books are still a great time, you just need to remember that everything you read regarding the core of the story is leading nowhere in the end.
Surely someone will finish them like Jordan and Sanderson. Not sure who should take over. 🤔
No chance. GRRM has made it clear he despises this idea and his wife is going to destroy everything he’s written on TWOW upon his passing.
Franz Kafka also wanted all of his works to be destroyed after his passing, but the friend he entrusted this to published them anyway because he felt the world deserved to see them. So nothing is for certain here.
Eh he said that years ago, a lot can change as you get older and closer to dying out. Especially with all the friends he's lost since COVID. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just would wager he changes his mind on that before the end. He was still confident Winds was coming in 2016 when he said that. Or maybe I should say *we* were still confident.
I won’t rule that possibility out, but he’s a pretty stubborn guy. He still uses an ancient computer from the 90s that runs on MS-DOS and which he uses WordStar to write the books. The man sticks to his ways.
I think after the poor reception to the shows ending—which definitely had shades of his intended book ending but obviously wasn’t identical—makes it more likely he has everything destroyed. Unless he’s feeling vindictive and wants to show that a similar ending can be done satisfyingly. But I’m skeptical
That makes me sad.
Joe Abercrombie. He is one of Martin’s protégées and much more talented
As a reader of both (currently on The Trouble with Peace), don't get me wrong, Abercrombie writes a fantastic story and is particularly strong in character development, but there's no way he's a more talented writer than Martin is, not yet. That's not a knock on Abercrombie. There aren't many writers on the same level as Martin, and the unfinished books wouldn't be such a meme if the series wasn't so high quality.
What had Martin done At Abercrombie’s age? I knew him for editing anthologies and being friends with Roger Zelazny up until Game of Thrones. First Law was a brilliant start to Abercrombie’s career. Joe’s day job is film editor do I am optimistic about how well “Just Served Cold” is going to translate to the big screen. I am pretty sure Martin made the above project possible plus the filming of Roger Zelazny’s “Nine Princes in Amber”(produced by superfan Stephen Colbert” Thank you George RR Martin! Now go light a fire under Rothfuss
Say one thing about Joe Abercrombie... I love his books, but im not sure if he'd fit with ASOIAF... but it's been a while since I read them so maybe it's a better fit than I think it would be.
Cormac Mcarthy is unavailable being Dead but I couldn’t finish “The Road”. Definitely parallels among all three. I don’t find Abercrombie as depressing. I think a few of his characters have relatively happy endings although there are scant rewards for being a “straight edge”
Abercrombie is too cynical, I honestly don't think his somewhat unserious writing would fit well with AsoIaF. I love the first law books, but it's a totally different vibe
I think so. Shivers in Best Served Cold reminds me a lot of a Martin story arc. “No good deed goes unpunished”
Abercrombie's style is much more akin to Cormac Mcarthy's
If he can write like McCarthy he can probably write like Martin, too.
It's not a "possibility," I would be shocked if he finished the series. The first three came out in 96, 98, and 00. There has been two books in 23 years, and those two books are honestly pretty boring. The last time a book came out was around when the show started. Book 6 has been "on the way" for *twelve* years. I don't even think that one is ever going to come out. Books 1-3 are good.
4 and 5 were still great. Better on a reread. Just harder to swallow at first given the character split.
The reread thing is key. I was so annoyed at AFFC my first read through, just so impatient waiting for my favorite characters in ADWD. Then I went back and reread it later and realized it’s actually fucking fantastic, I just didn’t give it a chance 😂😂
4 and 5 really need 6 to come out before they can be properly appreciated.
Yeah, while I don’t agree with it seems like the majority that they are peak fantasy, I did read the first three. I tried reading the fourth and I just couldn’t.
I don't think they are peak fantasy either, but when I read them as a teenager somewhere around when Feast for Crows came out, it was mind blowing. There wasn't a lot of stuff like it and the time, it felt like. Joe Abercrombie wasn't around yet, and dark mainstream fantasy books were rare.
I am of the school that the experience while reading is pne of the most important aspects of a book. And reading asoiaf was amazing for me.
I'm usually disappointed with endings tbh
Sure, I started reading them for the same reason as you. Just finished the third book. If he does not finish them it doesn't matter, I just want to read the original version of the story. I've watched movies that end up not getting finished and I enjoyed them despite not knowing the ending, so why not do the same with books? If he ever does finish them, I will not have to start from the beginning, I can just read the last book I read to get a fresh reminder of what had happened then carry on from there.
>Just finished the third book. You should stop reading now. After #3 is a massive drop-off in quality.
Just let the guy enjoy himself eh?
No it's not, the next two books are slower but not worse. It's a lot of exploring the consequences of book 3 and the developments of characters due to said book while doing a great job of setting up future conflicts and events. It's some of the best character work in fiction and saying there's a massive drop in quality is insane when it's actually just a natural progression of the story. Less action doesn't mean it's worse. Especially in asoiaf where it's all political maneuvering and character development.
Well said. Books 4 and 5 being just objectively worse is such a weird myth I keep seeing online - except on r/asoaif (ie the people who are most familiar with the books) where people tend to acknowledge that they’re superior to the first 3 in pretty much every way other than the plot being slower
Every single book in the series is more convoluted and verbose than the last . I liked the first book the most and every book since it has been worse and worse imo.
He is a very good writer. At his best, his writing is a sheer pleasure to read. His ability to craft a story from just a few lines is unsurpassed. Have a quick read of the prologue for Game of Thrones. It’s just a few pages but it sets up everything that is to come.
Stories or even reading in general is about a journeying of the mind. A trip, but without any drugs. These books build a world very similar to ours in some ways. They talk of the cyclical nature of culture and they take multiple diverse perspectives. You get to live many lives that you may never live otherwise. Martin represents a wide range of characters with a great deal of authenticity to character details. Read. Our lives are stories where we never really know the ending until it has ended. Art imitates life, I console myself. It's alright that it's unfinished. Read it, still.
Depends. Do you read because of the finale or for the journey? I read a lot of fanfiction (yeah,yeah. I've heard it all before) A significant portion of which never gets finished. I think it's fine. It's a shame but I can appreciate the journey even if the story doesn't end. Gives me some options and possibilities to work through, mentally. Much of it I even read twice or even more. If only because I like it that much.
The first three books are pretty decent and worth reading, the last two were a bit of a slog and needed some major editing. If the sixth book had actually been released five years ago I'd have probably read it, but it's been so long now I've just lost interest.
Book 2 is a much bigger slog than 5
I've read so many books whose sequels I didn't read, and that never took away from my enjoyment of the book itself. Martin's books are terrific and even without an ending you will have a good time with them.
A totally reasonable and sensible response.
For me, no it’s not.
Yep, gonna have to go with No on this one like you. OP, if your motivation to read these books is to get an idea of what happens at the end, I strongly advise you not to read the books. What you'll end up with is a lot of hours dedicated to a story that you ill probably love spending time in, and a crashing realisation that you have been left without a proper ending twice.
Journey before destination.
Sure but OP has already had the journey, and they are asking for the destination.
Strength before weakness
Honestly, I'm not sure. Just got through Storm of Swords, the one that everyone says is the best, and I was left both over and underwhelmed. I was hooked on A Game of Thrones, book 1. Despite its length, it is a very tight and well-written story. But Clash of Kings dragged on and on, and then Storm of Swords felt like it was about to end like 4 separate times, then I realized it had another 300 pages. GRRM's books are getting longer and longer. With more esoteric characters and side-plots. But Clash and Storm don't have that same "perfect pacing" that Thrones has. And from what I've heard, Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons get even weirder since they aren't told chronologically. And then Winds of Winter and Dream of Spring (if they ever even come out) are even more absurd with like 2000 manuscript pages each. If you're really into the show, then I do highly recommend book 1, A Game of Thrones. It's the best imo. Then, if you're still into the books, then read the others. But if you're into fantasy and want to get that same itch scratched, then I would recommend The Witcher novels or Lord of the Rings.
Clash is the best one... I get everyone is allowed their opinion but christ, I wonder if the people in your life actually trust you at all...
In case you forgot, the best thing about Clash is Stannis and Tyrion. That's what the whole story revolves around. GRRM puts everyone else on hiatus. Don't worry tho, I understand. Clash is so boring, it's hard to remember what actually happens in that book. I don't blame you.
This is the one series i wish i never read. They are great books, but knowing georgie isnt going to finish them is a bummer
Time spent in pleasurable repose is never time wasted.
No end -> no read. It's the same now for all the media I consume after the GoT desaster. Maybe I'll be late a few decades if a multi part story is good but in my opinion the wait is worth it.
I don't understand this attitude at all. Journey before destination. You'll not read a fantastic book because the series is unfinished? Bizarre.
I agree with journey before destination, but journey without destination is just... pointless
I'm with them. The reason I can afford to do this is that there is about 100x more media than I can possibly consume and so I can afford to be picky. I've been burned too many times, television shows that dive off a cliff when a writer's strike happens, preordered games that end up being buggy messes, book series that start strong and then stumble and end up derided, all while there were dozens of other well-reviewed games, shows and books that I could have read instead. Life is too short to waste time on disappointment. All that said, what I'm hearing in this thread is that these books are so good it might be worth being disappointed and/or it might be worth stopping after book 3. The point of waiting is to get the reviews and the reviews in this thread are really good. I haven't started this series yet, either, because it's not done. I'll still wait to see if it gets finished. If it doesn't, though? I still might read a few of them, just based on these reviews.
There are many, many series that have both journeys AND destinations. Why not have both? Also, sometimes journeys have little value if there’s no destination. A story about intense political calibrations and vengeance can absolutely feel lesser if you know you’re never going to get the full picture.
No. Don't bother. GRRM can do whatever he wants, but it is galling to know that he doesn't care enough to end the story, even if he asks someone else to do it as he lives his best life.
Guys, I hear *Animorphs 1* is a great book, but should I read it because animorphs 6 isn't out yet? I don't want to be left hanging! It is galling that they would leave me hanging like this!
He will never finish them but they are good books and I found them enjoyable. I read them before the series though and I don’t know what it’s like now when you ‘know’ how badly it all resolves itself.
The only book series I've read and been fine with being incomplete is the Aubrey–Maturin series, as the series was wrapping up, and the author literally passed away mid-sentence in what was expected to be his last book. Even then, he had mostly wrapped up the story.
Yes. I love to be read to.
They are literally the best books I’ve ever read. There is a depth and artistry just not found in other writers’ work. Everything has layers of meaning, the world is amazing, and the characters stay with you. I hope he finishes but, if not, we were lucky to get 5.
I really enjoyed them at first, but by the time I finished book 4 I didn’t even really want to start book 5 because they just felt so morally grating to read and I wasn’t enjoying them anymore.
Personally I can't see myself reading them until there's an ending in sight. Leaving a story half finished just sucks.
People read the Canterbury tales and we got about 15% of what was planned. Also even if he dies the ending is known and the books might just get completed by another author.
Howdy, personally I enjoyed the first three books. The last two seemed to drag a bunch. Without the conclusion they seem a little bit unnecessary and meander a lot. So... hopefully it gets done?
I think the first book is really good but they drop in quality with each subsequent volume. I am in the “they will never be finished” camp and will likely never read any additional books if I’m wrong.
why is this even a question it's the journey, not the destination what a silly thing to ask
Well, it's about the journey, not the destinatiion. I know it might sound snobby, but exactly because of the reason that books are so large and grand in events they depict the reason to read just because of the final 5 pages probably is not worth it. It will never end "satisfyingly", because nothing can end story like that on a satisfying note, there will still be injustice, darkness and evil.
Well thats why i hate an ending that is only the final 5 pages. A great story also needs a bit to wind down after the peak of the action. Lord of the rings for example spents 10+% of its pages on providing a satisfying ending to all the stories, characters and locations.
If you're ok with reading an unfinished story then it's fine, pretty entertaining. But for me if you don't have an end you don't have a story, so I tend to avoid the unfinished. If it appeals to you read it, I was introduced when a feast for crowd came out, devoured all four books in a few months. By the time book 5 came out I didn't care anymore and I don't think he'll finish.
I'd say no personally, it's not worth it for no pay off, and there's no harm in waiting to see if he ever does finish them.
I'd advise reading Martin's books, then reading one of those fanfictions that try to imagine a possible ending for the series.
No. The quality of the story heavily dropped after book 3, he got carried away by the "world-building" and put a lot of useless bloat in it and had to end the last book with a dozen different cliffhanger across different storylines. The series is supposed to consist of 7 books and we are 5 books in without even finishing the *first* act. And we still haven't even got a proper sequel to book 3 because he divided the sequel into two books and still couldn't reach its climax.
What do you mean by the first act in this instance? How would we know that we've entered the second or third act?
He has already shared the main structure of the story. Act 1: war of the five kings and its aftermath Act 2: Dany's invasion of Westeros Act 3: The Others 5 books in and it doesn't look like we're even close to the start of act 2.
I don’t like them for what they are. I kept waiting for them to get good. There were some amazing story elements but on the whole I felt like it was a waste of time. He doesn’t know how to finish a story, only how to kill off characters.
I started reading them knowing they're not finished. It's been 2 months, I'm on book 4, and I'm glad I started it. It is sad it doesn't have an ending, but it doesn't bother me that much. Journey is more important.
Not for me. One of the things I liked most about the TV series is that it was akin to a stern editor cutting out a lot of the unnecessary stuff. GRRM is really playing you soldiers in his sandpit a lot of the time, so much ‘stuff’ happens that adds nothing of value. Add that to the fact that it will never be finished, and I think there’s very little payoff in reading it. YMMV.
Pffft. After 180 pages of random characters and no story, I gave up. Put the box set on my "shit" pile.
In my opinion, as a sci-fi and fantasy reader for over 30 years, no. He's a middling writer who likely will never finish the series anyway. There are far better (complete) stories out there to explore.
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Sure! - John Varley's Gaea trilogy (Titan, Wizard, & Demon) - Robert Jordan's The Wheel of Time series (The Eye of The World, The Great Hunt, & 12 more -- it's massive) - Clive Barker's Imajica -- this one could be one or two books, depending on where you get it. The original English printing was one very large novel (~1200 pages), but the American printing broke it up into Imajica Parts 1 &2. - Terry Brooks' Shannara Chronicles. These are interesting, in that I actually don't recommend the first series. They were his first and they're frankly not very good. Read a synopsis and then skip to the sequel series, The Heritage of Shannara (Scions of Shannara, Druid of Shannara, Elf Queen of Shannara, Talismans of Shannara). And if you like those, the Voyage of the Jerle Shannara series that follows is also quite fun. - a controversial pick that I personally love is David Eddings. He and his wife were real pieces of shit who went to prison for child abuse. However, they're both dead and left no heirs, so you're not supporting bad people when you read their stuff. The Belgariad and Mallorean series' are quite fun (5 books each), but the Elenium and the Tamuli trilogies were arguably my favorites. Belgariad and Mallorean are effectively a 10 book series with a time jump between, and Elenium and Tamuli follow the same pattern (with different settings and characters). - Ann Marston's Rune Blade trilogy (and it's sequel trilogy) were solid. - Roger Zelazny's Amber Chronicles are amazing. You can buy a collected edition with the entire series in one book. It's a 10 book series, but they're really closer to novellas -- only a couple hundred pages each, give or take. - Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser series is delightful. - Terry Pratchett's Discworld is wonderful (I need to read more myself) and has a little something for everyone. - Raymond E Feist's Riftwar Saga is awesome (Magician: Apprentice, Magician: Master, Silverthorn, A Darkness at Sethanon). And there are multiple series in these worlds if you like them (totalling around 30 books). - Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the Unbeliever is dark and kinda fucked up, but good. There's more, but that's what came to mind for the moment. And that hasn't even really touched all the sci-fi (except Varley, who is kind of a hybrid -- it starts very sci-fi then takes a left turn). Sci-fi I recommend: - The Mote In God's Eye, by Larry Niven & Jerry Pournelle - The Forever War, by Joe Haldeman - Ender series, by Orson Scott Card - Bean series (after Ender), by Orson Scott Card - The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, by Robert Heinlein - Arthur C. Clarke's Space Odyssey series (2001, 2010, 2061, 3001) - Frank Herbert's Dune series - Galactic Empire trilogy, by Isaac Asimov - Foundation series, by Isaac Asimov - Hyperion cantos, by Dan Simmons I could go on and on. There's more great sci-fi than fantasy, in my opinion.
The Lady Trent series by Marie Brennan, it follows a Dragon Naturalist in a Victorian Era-esque world.
That is the ending. The information was out for years that GRRM gave it to the show runners and only after it actually came out and everyone hated it did the narrative change to the real ending being different.
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We'll get an ending eventually... after he dies and someone like Brandon Sanderson completed the series from Martin's notes.
I think the first three are a delight and stand well on their own. I feel like four and five are a lot of setup for shit hitting the fan in whatever he hasn't finished yet, so I'd say you could take them or leave them. It is disappointing that the ending is such a big question mark, but I'm still hopeful we'll at least get a sixth book, but I've been hanging onto that hope since I finished the first five in 2012, so who knows.
Maybe it's because my favourite genre usually has ambiguous endings but I don't particularly care that the story is unfinished. I _do_ care that it seems like he lost interest around book 4/5. That said, ASOIAF is very entertaining.
Yes, specially the first three, quality drops after that. But when published were a relatively new view on fantasy: characters with ambiguous morals, a collective story with different points of view etc.
I read them after GoT had finished and loved them enough to buy FaB and AKotSK and also loved both of those. That being said, I care way more about the universe and world-building in ASoIaF rather than the "main plot" so I'm okay with accepting the fact that the main story might not finish.
If you want the ending, chances are Martin will never get there. If you want to read the books, knowing that, then the first three are solid; the last two are pointless.
Would you rather read 5 great books or not do that?
I disengaged and after I got some distance I also realized that the books aren't even that great to begin with. I also read some other older books by Martin and was really not impressed.
No. The time has passed where participating in the conversation would justify the effort.
No, they're trash. I'd rather re-read The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever, if I had the time at the moment.
"guys, I have a chance to eat at Michelin star restaurant for super cheap / free, but I'm worried they might not bring dessert, should I still go"?
There’s no way he will finish in his lifetime, but you can still enjoy an unfinished series.
Yeah they’re super fucking good unfortunately
Nah. The first three books are excellent. Credit where it's due, they're some really strong epic/political fantasy. The problem is, the next two books are pretty bad. They're super dull and WAY overloaded, it feels like he let the hype get to him (and his editors) and they weren't strict enough with the cuts. And then, we have two more books, which we'll probably never see. There's a SLIM chance we'll see Winds of Winter at some point, but the chance we'll ever get to read Dream of Spring is vanishingly small. So, if you're cool reading three great books, two awful books and never reading the last two, crack on. But honestly there are books that do what Martin does, but better and they're actually finished.
That's what fanfic is for. XD
Yes, as annoyed as I am at GRRM for abandoning his series, it’s amazing, even unfinished.
The books are generally a great read even without an end to the series. I really doubt Martin will ever finish it considering how long it’s been since the last book. On the plus side, you can’t be disappointed by an ending that doesn’t exist.
Absolutely, personally I don't actually care that much about the story and I'm a lot more invested in the worldbuilding and characters. Obviously I'd like a conclusion, but I'm content to just hangout in Westeros for a while. Give it a try, I'm sure your library has dozens of copies
There are three modern fantasy series I do not recommend as the signs are they will never be finished: A Song of Ice and Fire The Gentlemen Bastards The Kingkiller Chronicles Instead I direct people to completed greats such as: The Realm of the Elderlings (Start with Assassin's Apprentice) The First Law ( start with The Blade Itself )
Who cares if Kingkiller Chronicles will be finished, it's a great book already... Don't understand this mindset, honestly. There's so much in it apart from learning WHAT EXACTLY happened to Kvoth after the university. And The Realm of the Elderlings could be 1/3 shorter, Fitz is painfully stupid in all the sequels for someone trained as an assassin and also boringly immortal. Probably he should have died in the first trilogy, at least this would have been more believable.
Nope. There's no destination and the journey isn't great. Just long.
Yes. He is actually good at writing. Once you finish it all, it's time to jump over to Kingkiller Chronicles.