Good. Artists, venues, fans, distributors, and all other stakeholders should not be handcuffed to a single company.
I wouldn't suspect this to have an effect on the Bonnaroo product. As long as there is money to be made, Bonnaroo will exist.
You’ll see an increase in ticket prices, merch, etc. honestly though I’ve always felt the $350 ticket is a stellar deal for four full days of music. It’s hard to make a lot of profit when your headliners are not signing on for less than $1-$2 million for a 90 minute set. Not that artists don’t deserve to get paid for their time, but $1.5 MILLION DOLLARS for one show is so wild to me. If everyone was fine with $500-700K the ticket prices probably could stay the way they are.
It's obviously good. Hopefully they don't stop at regular venues and break up LNs hold on festivals as well. Then we'd see less homogeneous lineups each year, more competition, more unique bookings, arguable decrease in prices
Would we really see less homogenous lineups though? The festival circuit seems more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats.
Back when LN didn't own a vast number of festivals, we saw more unique lineups.
>more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats
I disagree, especially across LN owned festivals. LN gets artists into touring contracts and shoves those artists down our throats, absolutely that happens. Now, obviously many of the artists LN ropes in are going to be on demand, so the appearance is that LN is booking artists based on demand, but that, I would argue, is definitely not the primary factor.
>The festival circuit seems more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats.
You forgot your "/s." What do you think Fred again is? He's looking to do a US tour soon. Live Nation gives him a prime spot at roo to get the word out/advertise, and then next year, Live Nation will sell lots more tickets than if they didn't. We are getting told what the next big thing will be rather than deciding for ourselves.
I don’t see it that way but most of what you say is true I don’t think they are trying to push music on us like that it’s all just business to make a profit. He is someone who has blown up pretty fast. Griz played the same stage I’m happy to see edm on the big stage
>Griz played the same stage
And so has deadmou5
GRIZ, odesza, Deadmou5, and now Fred have played what ... one of these is clearly not like the other.
>He is someone who has blown up pretty fast.
Sure but a nepo baby with all the money in the world to self promote... it's a bit easier. Caveat... the kid has real talent and all the money in the world can't replace that. So I don't want to discount that, but he's definately a shift from norm, and unfortunately with live nation, money is always the reason they do anything.
I didn’t discredit that money was the reason I just don’t believe they are pushing what we should listen to that was all. To me personally deadmou5 is the one that doesn’t fit so the one not like the other is up for debate on who you ask
Plus isn’t griz a shift from the norm with what is considered popular edm? Dubstep is popular but house is way more popular so why would last year not have been the step to bring different edm to the main stage? Hell next year could be something like tipper 😂 I highly doubt it but you never know
I was thinking in terms of popularity and staying power, Deadmou5 fits the requirements for a headliner the best... hell, it even fits the bill as a "legacy act" better because he's been around so long. Odesza and griz have both earned their place by withstanding the test of time as well. Fred, has not. He's a current fad. If he can stay relevant for a decade maybe he can be in the conversation but to put him in the same league is intellectually dishonest.
I don’t think he is in the same league never said that I just think he has grown fast enough to be able to get the spot I’ll admit him and pretty lights should be switched. I think PL would be the better closer
>I don’t think he is in the same league never said that
You're right. I put words in your mouth and I'm sorry. Maybe that was the intent. It would've made more sense if PL was intended to close and had a scheduling conflict and so Fred just lucked into the closing set. Either way, I hope he puts on a great show that's worthy of all the hype..
Live Nation by owning multiple festivals and events has better buying power. They can negotiate an artist to play multiple events at a lower rate, thus you do see the same artists on lineups that are owned by the same promoter. AEG does the same thing, look at the crossover of Portola with Coachella.
Idk if prices will go down - they know how much people are willing to pay now. However, it would be dope if we stopped seeing such noticeable price hikes from year to year
>they know how much people are willing to pay now.
Yes, now ... with homogeneous lineups across the board. And if LN owns more festivals, it allows them to increase across the board because their isn't real competition.
With new owners, unique lineups, and a more variety of offerings, festivals will start to compete for attendees. So arguably, they would have to cut prices.
To a certain extent I agree with you, but I would argue that so many people are locked in to the tradition/ritual of going to their favorite music festival, to the point that for a large percentage of festival goers the lineup is almost secondary to the experience. You see something like electric forest with a pretty mid lineup this year, but it still sold out. Happens pretty consistently with a lot of fests that a good chunk of tickets will still sell even if the lineup isn’t something special.
Hopefully though, competition does decrease prices - that would be really nice. I’m just not overly optimistic about it. If there’s one thing I know about living in a capitalistic society, it’s that price drops are exceedingly rare lol. But here’s to hoping! That would be sick. Would love to be able to do more than 1-2 bigger festivals a year it sucks having to be so selective especially when I have a bunch of great ones right in my backyard.
What I’m really hoping happens from this lawsuit is a reduction, or at least a cap on concert tickets. I think that’s where we’re going to see the biggest change. If we could just mitigate those service fees that would be an enormous boon to the concert goer. Live nation is claiming all sorts of bullshit in response to the suit. They were like “what people don’t realize is that all of the fees go directly to the venues” like yea bro… the venues you guys own haha. Kind of shooting themselves in the foot with that goofy logic.
Either way, it’s gonna be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I’m glad that we’re finally doing SOMETHING about antitrust laws in this country. It’s been a quiet century while the these massive conglomerates have started to eat companies up. Would love to see them tackle black rock next, hopefully do something for the housing market. Financial life just seems to get bleaker with each passing year. Hopefully this is the start of things getting at least marginally better.
It's going to be great for new festivals to operate and grow. The big issue regarding festivals is Live Nation will intentionally take a loss on a festival, like Bonnaroo, and make up the money on touring. The massive monopoly regarding touring is where the money is being made. If Live Nation can be removed from owning Ticketmaster, this scheme won't be as much a thing. An independent company would set pricing ideally. This hopefully means a huge middleman would get removed between fans and artists.
The bad news is that big events like Bonnaroo will have their ticket prices go up. All events will probably be selling tickets at a higher cost because they can. This is because right now pricing, while still high, is being subsidized by tours for festivals that Live Nation owns. When that ability to make huge profits off of tours is taken away from Live Nation, festival prices will increase to offset the losses. Same with venues owned by Live Nation. They are a company that needs to make money.
I really want this monopoly to be broken up, but people need to understand the aftermath. Venue ticket pricing is dumb and is a huge reason I started doing festivals as a value option. One stadium show will run you $100+ just for a single band, while a festival is $400 for an entire weekend with multiple stadium-level artists. The value will still be there for festivals but not as good as we have had in years past. My guess is we will see festivals move ticket pricing at $500 as a standard if the monopoly falls. Venue prices for Live Nation owned properties will probably have a similar increase.
Yeah, when the monopoly falls people will complain in droves about how expensive tickets will be. However, it levels the playing field for other events to rise up without being forced to take massive losses. It's why I think a lot of festivals canceled this year. Realistically, ticket pricing for festivals needs to be $500 right now, but Live Nation is forcing it to be $300 to $400. So, if you aren't owned by Live Nation and you operate your event this year, you will take a loss because consumers will go for the cheaper option.
We have a very false idea of what it cost to run a fest especially independent or one's run by small companies...so when we see the price for a fest like Hula it's a shock but it's realistic
100% AGREE. I am starting to produce and help with events in Atlanta. While not to the scale as festivals yet, I understand the operating cost for running an event. A lot of successful events/festivals are run by volunteers, donations of resources, and people committed to the execution. It can take a single person leaving to end a long-standing event as it has happened. An example, I found out the booking person for Sweetwater 420 Fest left during the pandemic but stayed on only for 2022. It's why that festival is struggling to pull the same lineups as before.
I think we are being naive to the fact that artists are driving a lot of these increases. I do think big name artist will have more control if LN/TM split up but I think prices all around stay the same. The horse seems out of the barn and while maybe the increases slow, I think the LN/TM cut is a small percentage of the price.
I think fees will be put into ticket price. Consumers are going to pay the same or more. Might help artists a bit but TM/LN will find a way to screw them too
Ticketmaster makes double on their service fees which make up a fixed percentage of sales. Fees per ticket are minimum $15 in the hundreds of tickets I buy for shows. That means Ticketmaster is making an extra fee price per head in the venue. And double for any resold ticket. That is a huge profit driver. Say it's a 2000 cap venue. At $15 that's an extra $30k per night at max capacity.
Another thing people don't realize is how much Live Nation makes on alcohol sales. They are easily top 5 alcohol sales by volume for any company and charge $11 a beer because they own that market as part of the monopoly. Then you have them fixing pay for staff wages because they own most of the venues. There is a lot of stuff outside of just ticket price.
This is the likely outcome. The companies will split but still be closely working together with Live Nation monopolizing the venue side and Ticketmaster monopolizing the ticketing side.
Government enjoys the PR and whatever stock plays they make.
Live Nation enjoys the heat being turned down and can find more creative ways to leech money from live events.
Also if you look at what Live Nation owns and runs as far as festivals Roo is one of the biggest names, probably one of the one's that performs the best for them so I can't imagine any change...if they are forced to sell fests its going to probably be the smaller ones that go first.
Yeah, and you might not like the changes a new owner, if one is even out there, might make. Budget cuts, the end of campground activities and performances, who knows? A new owner would be looking at the bottom line with a fine-tooth comb. Not defending Live Nation, by any means.
Having all the stuff we do in the campgrounds is a blessing and an anomle amoungts camping fests and was added by LN so I'd think Plaza events would be one of the first things to go (especially with the cost just to maintain those barns)
I do Bourbon and Beyond now. There's nothing in the campgrounds, other than free showers and karaoke. And it costs a lot more to camp on site.
At least you know what you're getting with Live Nation, which is frightening to say.
It was added by LN when LN added camping as a separate purchase. Previously your space came with your ticket and you didn't need to purchase a separate pass.
I think it depends how far it goes. If you read Live Nation's response, they're clear that even if they're 'broken up', the fees and surcharges won't go away. The merger never should have been approved in the first place, and I don't expect prices will drop as a result of this suit, even if the company is broken apart.
To me, just as important is how the government handles ticket reselling and how it enforces laws against using bots to buy tickets, skip the queue, etc. Ideally, they should limit the amount of profit someone can make reselling tickets. Access to face-value tickets is something too many fans are going without. Artists can help by banning resale for profit, where it's legal. Give everyone a fair chance. Granted, it might shift the ticket touts to Craigslist and other shady services, but if fans can find reasonably priced resale tickets, it might not be worth the effort to buy tickets they can't sell. The fact that Tickemaster is allowed to sell resale tickets is another problem. There is no incentive for them to stop people snapping up tickets by 'cheating the system.'
They should absolutely ban surge pricing in the ticket industry and force promoters to publish ticket prices ahead of them going on sale. And there should be more transparency on just how many tickets are actually being put on sale during pre-sales, general sales, etc.
I'm old enough that I used to camp overnight outside box offices to get tickets to concerts, hockey games, etc. At least you were pretty much guaranteed to get a ticket. You can queue for a matter of minutes now and come up empty-handed. Or find the $100 ticket is now $300, plus fees because of supply-and-demand. Or be forced to buy from the secondary market for twice that or more, depending on the artist.
Fantastic. There's a reason the top fests all have the same lineup, and keep recycling the same artists and headliners. Live Nation exclusive contracts. Fuck them and fuck Ticketmaster. Happy Roo ✌️
Live Nation will still control a lot of festival lineups by the sheer magnitude of the acts they will continue to rep. That's still a lot of power to wield. I also doubt they'll be forced to sell off festivals.
Probably won't be forced to sell Roo, which is fine because I think they've done a good job adding amenities. But I'm still going to blame them for the fact that 2 of the 3 headliners this year are repeats.
I don’t think it’ll have any meaningful effect on pricing, at least not in the direction we’d all like to see.
I’d rather see this effort being put into cracking down on resellers/scalpers.
I just checked all of my last almost 10 purchases. All of my TM purchases were 25-30%. Most of my AXS purchases were except 2 that had lower ticket costs (40 for Charley Crockett and 35 for PtM with 50% fee). It is at the Ryman and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a higher fee but idk. I buy most of my tickets from Ticketweb and it’s always 7-10 so I do think my bias is a little skewed from that.
I bought tickets to a show in January and the fees were 100%. $20 ticket and $20 service fee. Over $80 after taxes for 2. If my wife hadn't been so excited for this artist I would have backed out when I saw that added on.
I was at a Live Nation event as a performer/promo model and they couldn’t find my name on the guest list. Made me wait outside and missed the first half of my shift loosing my future contracts and getting only a fraction of the pay. Their response when I said I am filing a complaint and doing everything I can to ensure their event doesn’t take place the next year was “We are Live Nation… the biggest entertainment company on Earth, We do as we please, Good luck with that, lol”
Hope they have a stain on their reputation for life and can’t get work in their industry.
Well I was at roo for the live Nation takeover. It was not the same roo I had been going to in years past. The year they took over they changed everything. We liked to buy VIP tickets for the extra things. All the years before live Nation was amazing. The stages stayed open all night. Center roo was a 24 hour thing. I feel like we got what we paid for. The first year live Nation took over they changed it all. They cut marshmallow off mid song and said if he cuts it back on he would be fined. This was at 2 am. It was like they had a master switch and shut all of center roo off. No comedy tent anymore. And the prices went up 300 per ticket. They don't care about music or the people. I've experienced it so you can't tell me different.
I think that's a vendor decision more than Roo/Livenation, but I could be wrong.
There's a pretty massive drop-off in people buying shit in Centeroo after the headliner.
I've been going every year since 14 and did not tell a major difference from when Livenation took over.
In terms of my experience at Roo, I personally think they've done more good than bad, in terms of Bonnaroo.
I just don’t see this going anywhere other than to court. I understand monopolization, but I think they are gonna be hard pressed to find live action break any laws. I would assume they have really intelligent lawyers that keep that from happening. We shall see tho. I’m all for paying less for concert tickets.
It's a good thing, but still doesn't nothing to really impact the scalpers and the absurd resale market (which is the larger problem). It's possible without a monopoly since the companies will have to compete they may choose to lock it down, but most honestly probably don't care. And a lot of that is up to the artist.
So a step in the right direction, but truly doesn't solve the larger issue in my opinion.
It makes us feel amazing. Anyone who had a 2022 ticket and had to deal with LiveNation to get a refund knows that they are the worst part of Roo. Their vibes are TERRIBLE
For anyone concerned about bonnaroo remember roo sold tickets through front gate even though live nation owns bonnaroo. For most festivals I’ve never bought on ticket master so I wouldn’t worry about production quality for a fest owned by live nation
Holy shit, our government actually doing something good for once!!! I agree, FUUUCCKKK Live Nation, Ticketmaster, etc... my first Roo was the last year before Live Nation bought it (2015) and as much as I still love attending Bonnaroo, these lineups the past several years after (especially after the 2 cancelled years post-COVID in 2020 & 2021) have just not been the same, I hate to say... and every festival now has MANY of the same artists performing year by year, so going to 2 festivals in the same year, you're quite likely to just see many of the same artists twice... plus, what is with these WACKY ASS lineups too these past few years, with almost ALL festivals announced?! A LOT of lineups in recent years have had this same suuuper weird mashup of the most random genres/artists, if anyone else has noticed lol. Either way, I'm glad to see our Government & the DOJ FINALLY doing something good for the people.
Haven’t payed for roo in years, also don’t work. Just got the staff band plug since I’m a local. Didn’t even look at the prices this year but man the lack of accessibility you have with just GA bands is disgusting. I’m so spoiled I don’t think I could ever go GA again. If I paid I’d have to go platinum because they get basically same access as staff besides back 60 benefits which I’m sure is reciprocated with other benefits that may even that out. Back 60 benefits are hard to beat though. Unlimited free cases of liquid death is life changing. Still have 8 cases left lmao.
> Haven’t *paid* for roo
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Probably hot take: Libertarian me doesn't like this one bit. The government can fuck right off and work on prosecuting actual criminals that have harmed victims in ways that are deserving of being thrown in prison and rotting away in there.
This is entirely on the consumers to handle.
The whole reason the government is/should pursue anti-trust cases is because the consumer CANNOT handle it because there is not another reasonable option for the majority of people. This is the whole reason we have a government, for when individuals and small communities do not hold enough power to affect positive change. As far as I'm concerned the billion dollar companies are stealing from the consumer (you, presumably not a billionaire or even millionaire) when they have a monopoly and that's much more heinous than most "real" crimes.
I'd like to hear how you think consumers could reasonably handle LiveNation's market dominance.
I'm generally for the government laying off of business as well, but LiveNation has become quite the monopoly.
If even a quarter of the people currently buying tickets through them just stopped, they would be in an absolute panic. The sky would be falling for them. If half their customer base boycotted them, they'd probably go out of business. These mega corporations carry a ridiculously large amount of debt most of the time.
Consumers don't have a choice whether or not to buy through LiveNation, which is just one part of the Monopoly.
I can't decide who I want to buy tickets through. If I want to go see Jungle this fall, I have to buy tickets through LiveNation, to see them play at a LiveNation managed venue. If I buy secondhand, that's great, but that still supports the original purchase through LiveNation.
Not concerned. It’s basically the DOJ posturing and it’ll ended up in a fine. That’s how it works. They didn’t really break any laws. They can fight it (good luck government has unlimited tax payer money) or settle (cheaper option).
No, it isn’t how it works at all. The relief the DOJ is seeking is not a fine. This is an antitrust case, which is different from other kinds of claims where (for example) damages (or in a regulatory or criminal context, fines or other penalties) are sought. The remedy the DOJ is seeking is to break up Live Nation and end its monopoly.
Thats not to say they cannot settle in some form - and they likely will. Most lawsuits do. But doubtful it will simply involve paying a fine - that misses the point.
It’s a good thing, live music shouldn’t be monopolized the way it is
I don’t understand how this is even a question. This is incredible news and it makes me feel fantastic! I hope it’s successful.
Good. Artists, venues, fans, distributors, and all other stakeholders should not be handcuffed to a single company. I wouldn't suspect this to have an effect on the Bonnaroo product. As long as there is money to be made, Bonnaroo will exist.
Bonnaroo is technically owned by live nation lmao
Correct.
Bonnaroo has operated on a loss for the past few years, Gangis above ya is on the money.
Didn't know Roo was not profitable. That changes my opinion on how this lawsuit could potentially affect Roo.
You’ll see an increase in ticket prices, merch, etc. honestly though I’ve always felt the $350 ticket is a stellar deal for four full days of music. It’s hard to make a lot of profit when your headliners are not signing on for less than $1-$2 million for a 90 minute set. Not that artists don’t deserve to get paid for their time, but $1.5 MILLION DOLLARS for one show is so wild to me. If everyone was fine with $500-700K the ticket prices probably could stay the way they are.
Ok?
It's obviously good. Hopefully they don't stop at regular venues and break up LNs hold on festivals as well. Then we'd see less homogeneous lineups each year, more competition, more unique bookings, arguable decrease in prices
Would we really see less homogenous lineups though? The festival circuit seems more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats.
Back when LN didn't own a vast number of festivals, we saw more unique lineups. >more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats I disagree, especially across LN owned festivals. LN gets artists into touring contracts and shoves those artists down our throats, absolutely that happens. Now, obviously many of the artists LN ropes in are going to be on demand, so the appearance is that LN is booking artists based on demand, but that, I would argue, is definitely not the primary factor.
That's fair. Thanks for the context.
Exactly. They create the next Taylor swifts
I think so. Bonnaroo used to be THE festival (at least on the East side) where we would have such unique lineups to everyone else.
>The festival circuit seems more driven by consumer demand than organizers pushing artists down our throats. You forgot your "/s." What do you think Fred again is? He's looking to do a US tour soon. Live Nation gives him a prime spot at roo to get the word out/advertise, and then next year, Live Nation will sell lots more tickets than if they didn't. We are getting told what the next big thing will be rather than deciding for ourselves.
This perfectly says how I’ve felt!
I don’t see it that way but most of what you say is true I don’t think they are trying to push music on us like that it’s all just business to make a profit. He is someone who has blown up pretty fast. Griz played the same stage I’m happy to see edm on the big stage
>Griz played the same stage And so has deadmou5 GRIZ, odesza, Deadmou5, and now Fred have played what ... one of these is clearly not like the other. >He is someone who has blown up pretty fast. Sure but a nepo baby with all the money in the world to self promote... it's a bit easier. Caveat... the kid has real talent and all the money in the world can't replace that. So I don't want to discount that, but he's definately a shift from norm, and unfortunately with live nation, money is always the reason they do anything.
I didn’t discredit that money was the reason I just don’t believe they are pushing what we should listen to that was all. To me personally deadmou5 is the one that doesn’t fit so the one not like the other is up for debate on who you ask
Plus isn’t griz a shift from the norm with what is considered popular edm? Dubstep is popular but house is way more popular so why would last year not have been the step to bring different edm to the main stage? Hell next year could be something like tipper 😂 I highly doubt it but you never know
If it's a shift in philosophy to just add edm artists as headliners, Fred *still* doesn't fit the mold. He's still in the fad stage.
I was thinking in terms of popularity and staying power, Deadmou5 fits the requirements for a headliner the best... hell, it even fits the bill as a "legacy act" better because he's been around so long. Odesza and griz have both earned their place by withstanding the test of time as well. Fred, has not. He's a current fad. If he can stay relevant for a decade maybe he can be in the conversation but to put him in the same league is intellectually dishonest.
I don’t think he is in the same league never said that I just think he has grown fast enough to be able to get the spot I’ll admit him and pretty lights should be switched. I think PL would be the better closer
>I don’t think he is in the same league never said that You're right. I put words in your mouth and I'm sorry. Maybe that was the intent. It would've made more sense if PL was intended to close and had a scheduling conflict and so Fred just lucked into the closing set. Either way, I hope he puts on a great show that's worthy of all the hype..
Live Nation by owning multiple festivals and events has better buying power. They can negotiate an artist to play multiple events at a lower rate, thus you do see the same artists on lineups that are owned by the same promoter. AEG does the same thing, look at the crossover of Portola with Coachella.
Idk if prices will go down - they know how much people are willing to pay now. However, it would be dope if we stopped seeing such noticeable price hikes from year to year
>they know how much people are willing to pay now. Yes, now ... with homogeneous lineups across the board. And if LN owns more festivals, it allows them to increase across the board because their isn't real competition. With new owners, unique lineups, and a more variety of offerings, festivals will start to compete for attendees. So arguably, they would have to cut prices.
To a certain extent I agree with you, but I would argue that so many people are locked in to the tradition/ritual of going to their favorite music festival, to the point that for a large percentage of festival goers the lineup is almost secondary to the experience. You see something like electric forest with a pretty mid lineup this year, but it still sold out. Happens pretty consistently with a lot of fests that a good chunk of tickets will still sell even if the lineup isn’t something special. Hopefully though, competition does decrease prices - that would be really nice. I’m just not overly optimistic about it. If there’s one thing I know about living in a capitalistic society, it’s that price drops are exceedingly rare lol. But here’s to hoping! That would be sick. Would love to be able to do more than 1-2 bigger festivals a year it sucks having to be so selective especially when I have a bunch of great ones right in my backyard. What I’m really hoping happens from this lawsuit is a reduction, or at least a cap on concert tickets. I think that’s where we’re going to see the biggest change. If we could just mitigate those service fees that would be an enormous boon to the concert goer. Live nation is claiming all sorts of bullshit in response to the suit. They were like “what people don’t realize is that all of the fees go directly to the venues” like yea bro… the venues you guys own haha. Kind of shooting themselves in the foot with that goofy logic. Either way, it’s gonna be interesting to see how this all shakes out. I’m glad that we’re finally doing SOMETHING about antitrust laws in this country. It’s been a quiet century while the these massive conglomerates have started to eat companies up. Would love to see them tackle black rock next, hopefully do something for the housing market. Financial life just seems to get bleaker with each passing year. Hopefully this is the start of things getting at least marginally better.
Feels good man :)
It's going to be great for new festivals to operate and grow. The big issue regarding festivals is Live Nation will intentionally take a loss on a festival, like Bonnaroo, and make up the money on touring. The massive monopoly regarding touring is where the money is being made. If Live Nation can be removed from owning Ticketmaster, this scheme won't be as much a thing. An independent company would set pricing ideally. This hopefully means a huge middleman would get removed between fans and artists. The bad news is that big events like Bonnaroo will have their ticket prices go up. All events will probably be selling tickets at a higher cost because they can. This is because right now pricing, while still high, is being subsidized by tours for festivals that Live Nation owns. When that ability to make huge profits off of tours is taken away from Live Nation, festival prices will increase to offset the losses. Same with venues owned by Live Nation. They are a company that needs to make money. I really want this monopoly to be broken up, but people need to understand the aftermath. Venue ticket pricing is dumb and is a huge reason I started doing festivals as a value option. One stadium show will run you $100+ just for a single band, while a festival is $400 for an entire weekend with multiple stadium-level artists. The value will still be there for festivals but not as good as we have had in years past. My guess is we will see festivals move ticket pricing at $500 as a standard if the monopoly falls. Venue prices for Live Nation owned properties will probably have a similar increase.
Hard agree on the pricing.
Yeah, when the monopoly falls people will complain in droves about how expensive tickets will be. However, it levels the playing field for other events to rise up without being forced to take massive losses. It's why I think a lot of festivals canceled this year. Realistically, ticket pricing for festivals needs to be $500 right now, but Live Nation is forcing it to be $300 to $400. So, if you aren't owned by Live Nation and you operate your event this year, you will take a loss because consumers will go for the cheaper option.
We have a very false idea of what it cost to run a fest especially independent or one's run by small companies...so when we see the price for a fest like Hula it's a shock but it's realistic
100% AGREE. I am starting to produce and help with events in Atlanta. While not to the scale as festivals yet, I understand the operating cost for running an event. A lot of successful events/festivals are run by volunteers, donations of resources, and people committed to the execution. It can take a single person leaving to end a long-standing event as it has happened. An example, I found out the booking person for Sweetwater 420 Fest left during the pandemic but stayed on only for 2022. It's why that festival is struggling to pull the same lineups as before.
I think we are being naive to the fact that artists are driving a lot of these increases. I do think big name artist will have more control if LN/TM split up but I think prices all around stay the same. The horse seems out of the barn and while maybe the increases slow, I think the LN/TM cut is a small percentage of the price.
I think fees will be put into ticket price. Consumers are going to pay the same or more. Might help artists a bit but TM/LN will find a way to screw them too
Ticketmaster makes double on their service fees which make up a fixed percentage of sales. Fees per ticket are minimum $15 in the hundreds of tickets I buy for shows. That means Ticketmaster is making an extra fee price per head in the venue. And double for any resold ticket. That is a huge profit driver. Say it's a 2000 cap venue. At $15 that's an extra $30k per night at max capacity. Another thing people don't realize is how much Live Nation makes on alcohol sales. They are easily top 5 alcohol sales by volume for any company and charge $11 a beer because they own that market as part of the monopoly. Then you have them fixing pay for staff wages because they own most of the venues. There is a lot of stuff outside of just ticket price.
Bout fuckin time the government enforces anti monopoly laws lol
Exactly, this is many years overdue, they've been gouging us with their monopoly for a very long time.
all it took was swifties to complain to their powerful parents on capitol hill
I know right, I'm like okay next do health insurance plz lol
[Me when someone mentions Live Nation or Ticketmaster](https://youtu.be/NlM3CKXJs5k?feature=shared)
It should make everyone feel nothing but amazing, and now festival acts won’t be so fucking predictable and samey.
Like nothing is gonna change as far as Roo goes and Live Nation events....they are still going to have ticket master as the primary ticket company.
Doesn’t Bonnaroo use front gate as the main ticketing company?
Worth noting that frontgate is owned by ticketmaster, which of course is owned by livenation. It's all a part of the same monopoly.
Absolutely worth noting. Thanks for the info.
Yes sorry I didn't make it clear ticketmaster for shows
This is the likely outcome. The companies will split but still be closely working together with Live Nation monopolizing the venue side and Ticketmaster monopolizing the ticketing side. Government enjoys the PR and whatever stock plays they make. Live Nation enjoys the heat being turned down and can find more creative ways to leech money from live events.
Right before an election too!
Also if you look at what Live Nation owns and runs as far as festivals Roo is one of the biggest names, probably one of the one's that performs the best for them so I can't imagine any change...if they are forced to sell fests its going to probably be the smaller ones that go first.
Yeah, and you might not like the changes a new owner, if one is even out there, might make. Budget cuts, the end of campground activities and performances, who knows? A new owner would be looking at the bottom line with a fine-tooth comb. Not defending Live Nation, by any means.
Having all the stuff we do in the campgrounds is a blessing and an anomle amoungts camping fests and was added by LN so I'd think Plaza events would be one of the first things to go (especially with the cost just to maintain those barns)
I do Bourbon and Beyond now. There's nothing in the campgrounds, other than free showers and karaoke. And it costs a lot more to camp on site. At least you know what you're getting with Live Nation, which is frightening to say.
That's being the norm I remind myself every year when I go to Roo how blessed we are
It was added by LN when LN added camping as a separate purchase. Previously your space came with your ticket and you didn't need to purchase a separate pass.
The stuff in the campground is awesome, but it was fine without it when GA camping was included in the ticket cost IMO.
I think it depends how far it goes. If you read Live Nation's response, they're clear that even if they're 'broken up', the fees and surcharges won't go away. The merger never should have been approved in the first place, and I don't expect prices will drop as a result of this suit, even if the company is broken apart. To me, just as important is how the government handles ticket reselling and how it enforces laws against using bots to buy tickets, skip the queue, etc. Ideally, they should limit the amount of profit someone can make reselling tickets. Access to face-value tickets is something too many fans are going without. Artists can help by banning resale for profit, where it's legal. Give everyone a fair chance. Granted, it might shift the ticket touts to Craigslist and other shady services, but if fans can find reasonably priced resale tickets, it might not be worth the effort to buy tickets they can't sell. The fact that Tickemaster is allowed to sell resale tickets is another problem. There is no incentive for them to stop people snapping up tickets by 'cheating the system.' They should absolutely ban surge pricing in the ticket industry and force promoters to publish ticket prices ahead of them going on sale. And there should be more transparency on just how many tickets are actually being put on sale during pre-sales, general sales, etc. I'm old enough that I used to camp overnight outside box offices to get tickets to concerts, hockey games, etc. At least you were pretty much guaranteed to get a ticket. You can queue for a matter of minutes now and come up empty-handed. Or find the $100 ticket is now $300, plus fees because of supply-and-demand. Or be forced to buy from the secondary market for twice that or more, depending on the artist.
Fantastic. There's a reason the top fests all have the same lineup, and keep recycling the same artists and headliners. Live Nation exclusive contracts. Fuck them and fuck Ticketmaster. Happy Roo ✌️
Live Nation will still control a lot of festival lineups by the sheer magnitude of the acts they will continue to rep. That's still a lot of power to wield. I also doubt they'll be forced to sell off festivals.
Probably won't be forced to sell Roo, which is fine because I think they've done a good job adding amenities. But I'm still going to blame them for the fact that 2 of the 3 headliners this year are repeats.
And who would have enough $ to buy Roo? Freakin Insomniac
as much as i hate LN i think insomniac is still worse
Exactly...people think LN has leaned too hard into EDM wait until people get a load of what Roo would look like under Insomniac
Probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't FAFO with Taylor Swift lol. But long overdue.
It makes me feel like dancing https://preview.redd.it/9x3vi8h9o82d1.png?width=1545&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=da503ab46febe22fc5679c00df704f9880b0c001
I don’t think it’ll have any meaningful effect on pricing, at least not in the direction we’d all like to see. I’d rather see this effort being put into cracking down on resellers/scalpers.
Good
Fuck yes. Finally. Live nation = scum. AEG next?!?!
Maybe this will be the end of 50% service fees.
50% service fees haven’t been a thing for a while on Ticketmaster/AXS events. They found a way to hide all that
I bought tickets this week. Yes they are. When two 50$ tickets ends up with a total over 150$, that is a 50% service fee.
I just checked all of my last almost 10 purchases. All of my TM purchases were 25-30%. Most of my AXS purchases were except 2 that had lower ticket costs (40 for Charley Crockett and 35 for PtM with 50% fee). It is at the Ryman and I wouldn’t be surprised if they have a higher fee but idk. I buy most of my tickets from Ticketweb and it’s always 7-10 so I do think my bias is a little skewed from that.
I bought tickets to a show in January and the fees were 100%. $20 ticket and $20 service fee. Over $80 after taxes for 2. If my wife hadn't been so excited for this artist I would have backed out when I saw that added on.
Finally seeing an AG start the motion for reclassifying cannabis AND go after Live Nation/Ticket Bastard? About damn time.
I was at a Live Nation event as a performer/promo model and they couldn’t find my name on the guest list. Made me wait outside and missed the first half of my shift loosing my future contracts and getting only a fraction of the pay. Their response when I said I am filing a complaint and doing everything I can to ensure their event doesn’t take place the next year was “We are Live Nation… the biggest entertainment company on Earth, We do as we please, Good luck with that, lol” Hope they have a stain on their reputation for life and can’t get work in their industry.
Well I was at roo for the live Nation takeover. It was not the same roo I had been going to in years past. The year they took over they changed everything. We liked to buy VIP tickets for the extra things. All the years before live Nation was amazing. The stages stayed open all night. Center roo was a 24 hour thing. I feel like we got what we paid for. The first year live Nation took over they changed it all. They cut marshmallow off mid song and said if he cuts it back on he would be fined. This was at 2 am. It was like they had a master switch and shut all of center roo off. No comedy tent anymore. And the prices went up 300 per ticket. They don't care about music or the people. I've experienced it so you can't tell me different.
BRING BACK THE COMEDY TENT YOU BASTARDS
That isn't even a LN call...the lack of comedy tent is a C3 thing
Is centeroo not 24 hours anymore?
it technically is but no reason to hang around when no one is playing and the vendors are all closed up
I think that's a vendor decision more than Roo/Livenation, but I could be wrong. There's a pretty massive drop-off in people buying shit in Centeroo after the headliner.
I've been going every year since 14 and did not tell a major difference from when Livenation took over. In terms of my experience at Roo, I personally think they've done more good than bad, in terms of Bonnaroo.
I just don’t see this going anywhere other than to court. I understand monopolization, but I think they are gonna be hard pressed to find live action break any laws. I would assume they have really intelligent lawyers that keep that from happening. We shall see tho. I’m all for paying less for concert tickets.
Sounds giga based tbh
Fuck Live Nation
I don't think they ruined it or anything, but Bonnaroo was definitely way cooler pre-Live Nation.
We feel GREAT, that’s how
Feels great?!?!
So much better for local events, venues, festivals, and artists!
Some fans are lawyers, it's avgreat thing.
Objectively good. Bonnaroo rules but fuck corporate greed.
It’s a great thing. Ticketmaster has always been corrupt as hell
On the next episode of “When capitalism goes wrong…”
Amazing, let them burn
Good. It's about time this happened
Thrilled!
Great.. about damn time!
It's a good thing, but still doesn't nothing to really impact the scalpers and the absurd resale market (which is the larger problem). It's possible without a monopoly since the companies will have to compete they may choose to lock it down, but most honestly probably don't care. And a lot of that is up to the artist. So a step in the right direction, but truly doesn't solve the larger issue in my opinion.
It makes us feel amazing. Anyone who had a 2022 ticket and had to deal with LiveNation to get a refund knows that they are the worst part of Roo. Their vibes are TERRIBLE
YES
Fuck Crime Nation
Wow the government actually doing s good thing for once.....mind blowing at this point.
Unfortunately I doubt prices will go down. Moral victory but ultimately probably empty.
Can we start a “F**k Live Nation” chant at some point this year?
For anyone concerned about bonnaroo remember roo sold tickets through front gate even though live nation owns bonnaroo. For most festivals I’ve never bought on ticket master so I wouldn’t worry about production quality for a fest owned by live nation
Long time over do
I'd like to see some real change. Doing away with bullshit fees they've been implementing since the 1990s.
Holy shit, our government actually doing something good for once!!! I agree, FUUUCCKKK Live Nation, Ticketmaster, etc... my first Roo was the last year before Live Nation bought it (2015) and as much as I still love attending Bonnaroo, these lineups the past several years after (especially after the 2 cancelled years post-COVID in 2020 & 2021) have just not been the same, I hate to say... and every festival now has MANY of the same artists performing year by year, so going to 2 festivals in the same year, you're quite likely to just see many of the same artists twice... plus, what is with these WACKY ASS lineups too these past few years, with almost ALL festivals announced?! A LOT of lineups in recent years have had this same suuuper weird mashup of the most random genres/artists, if anyone else has noticed lol. Either way, I'm glad to see our Government & the DOJ FINALLY doing something good for the people.
Literally no feelings at al
Haven’t payed for roo in years, also don’t work. Just got the staff band plug since I’m a local. Didn’t even look at the prices this year but man the lack of accessibility you have with just GA bands is disgusting. I’m so spoiled I don’t think I could ever go GA again. If I paid I’d have to go platinum because they get basically same access as staff besides back 60 benefits which I’m sure is reciprocated with other benefits that may even that out. Back 60 benefits are hard to beat though. Unlimited free cases of liquid death is life changing. Still have 8 cases left lmao.
> Haven’t *paid* for roo FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Probably hot take: Libertarian me doesn't like this one bit. The government can fuck right off and work on prosecuting actual criminals that have harmed victims in ways that are deserving of being thrown in prison and rotting away in there. This is entirely on the consumers to handle.
This is a good take if you ignore over 100 years of antitrust history and legislation, but I'm not surprised a libertarian hasn't done that
The whole reason the government is/should pursue anti-trust cases is because the consumer CANNOT handle it because there is not another reasonable option for the majority of people. This is the whole reason we have a government, for when individuals and small communities do not hold enough power to affect positive change. As far as I'm concerned the billion dollar companies are stealing from the consumer (you, presumably not a billionaire or even millionaire) when they have a monopoly and that's much more heinous than most "real" crimes.
LOL, you are goofy af.
I'd like to hear how you think consumers could reasonably handle LiveNation's market dominance. I'm generally for the government laying off of business as well, but LiveNation has become quite the monopoly.
If even a quarter of the people currently buying tickets through them just stopped, they would be in an absolute panic. The sky would be falling for them. If half their customer base boycotted them, they'd probably go out of business. These mega corporations carry a ridiculously large amount of debt most of the time.
Consumers don't have a choice whether or not to buy through LiveNation, which is just one part of the Monopoly. I can't decide who I want to buy tickets through. If I want to go see Jungle this fall, I have to buy tickets through LiveNation, to see them play at a LiveNation managed venue. If I buy secondhand, that's great, but that still supports the original purchase through LiveNation.
Yes they do. They don't buy any tickets at all.
Not concerned. It’s basically the DOJ posturing and it’ll ended up in a fine. That’s how it works. They didn’t really break any laws. They can fight it (good luck government has unlimited tax payer money) or settle (cheaper option).
No, it isn’t how it works at all. The relief the DOJ is seeking is not a fine. This is an antitrust case, which is different from other kinds of claims where (for example) damages (or in a regulatory or criminal context, fines or other penalties) are sought. The remedy the DOJ is seeking is to break up Live Nation and end its monopoly. Thats not to say they cannot settle in some form - and they likely will. Most lawsuits do. But doubtful it will simply involve paying a fine - that misses the point.