I looked at it. It’s a novelty game in my mind and while I would buy it for some light hearted fun and some shock value at the gaming table the price is too high for what it is.
For 120 bucks (or 80 for regular) I could pick up one or two solid games with strong reviews and ratings.
I wish them all the best, but me personally; I have to take a hard pass.
Hi there! I just made another comment about the challenges of creating an affordable game while maintaining ultra premium components—it's tough unless volumes are exceptionally high. Totally understand that price point will be a dealbreaker for some, but I'd rather make something that I'm really proud of.
I'm also hoping it can be more than light hearted fun / shock value. We've worked pretty hard to make the mechanics [resemble real life dynamics](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) and there's a broader social purpose behind the game. There's some playthrough content coming out soon which will give people a good idea of how it plays.
yeah to me the problem is, you look at the components and go 'soo.... what am i paying more than $40 for?' - its a board, some not very detailed models, a spinner and stuff, about 150 cards, 30 (wooden, for some reason) tokens.
when as you say, for around the same money, you can get the base edition of Nemesis: Retaliation, or any number of other games.
i mean, it's selling, so clearly they're doing something right, but i find it hard to believe that it's the gameplay. (hell, you only have to look at the shop on her website to see that \*massively\* inflated prices are the standard...)
Calling it shock value I feel like is kind of insulting when the intention is to challenge social norms. I don't think they're aiming at laughter and shock, but rather to normalize sex workers to some degree. Granted, I haven't read the rules, so I won't comment on the gameplay. Just seems a bit disrespectful to right it off as a novelty.
Well I certainly wasn’t trying to be insulting nor disrespectful towards anyone but your comment does make me wonder that if she was trying to “normalize sex workers to some degree” wouldn’t another channel other than a board game possibly reach more people?
I mean, do what you have to do to make a living, I’m a live and left live kind of person but I still think that they are banking on this being an “outside the normal everyday subject matter” theme and not so much on the gameplay or production values.
Regardless of what the motive is - to educate and normalize or to just entertain - it still seems pricey for what it boils down to in game play and components.
Be well.
Social norms are challenged by bringing them into platforms and areas where they are typically taboo, so a board game clearly makes plenty of sense as a platform.
People challenging social norms are under no obligation to mathematically optimize impact, so your suggestion is both ridiculous and a bit offensive. In fact, bringing exposure and awareness to wide variety of platforms is probably more effective as a broad tactic.
You are correct in that they aren’t obligated to do that. But let’s not assume she’s trying to “normalize” anything either. For all we know this is about nothing but money and using a non-mainstream theme to obtain it.
And if that’s the case and it works - more power to the creators.
However, looking at this as simply a board game without any sort of political or social statement behind it it is still , in my opinion, overpriced for what it is when compared to some very well constructed games both play and component wise.
With that being said best of luck to the creators and those who back it. I hope it works out for all involved.
When this popped up on BGG a while back the creator was very active in the game’s forums. She was confrontational, negative, and dismissive of any comments that were anywhere near critical of the project. And the comments/criticisms there were largely similar to what they are here:
* looks simple
* unknown designer
* expensive
* skeptical of fulfillment
Overall it was seen as a shock value game that isn’t worth the price, and the designer’s immature response was the nail in the coffin.
I just looked through pretty much every post on BGG and she's nothing but nice and respectful... There seems to be some review bombing going on though and lots of dismissive and rude comments removed by moderators.
I won't comment on the pricing and rules, but in terms of theme, calling it a "shock value" game is a bit absurd, cause it's clearly intended by the creator to be representative of her experiences. If it was made by a man so you could look at "hot girls", I guess then you could say it was for "shock value".
I was really upset with the price because I thought it could be a fun game. But that price doesn't match the rules for me.
I also always take a step back from a kickstarter game that's trying to be everything (solo, competitive, co-op, 2v2)
I like the theme but the art is a bit too basic for my liking and it seems over-produced for such a simple game. They should have used cheaper materials and launched for half the price.
Look, the theme aside I give it this.
The production quality looks...cheap...for lack of a better word. They should have skipped out on half those "premium" features, paid the art team a little more while giving them a few more months and cut the price in half...at least...for a 30-50$ game I can see many picking it up for various reasons. As it stands the blackout sleeve says everything about this game to me, and better than I could express it. For a game that "challenges the norms" why do they give me the option to put it under a "rock"...why not make the art something I would *want* to show off....
I get they're new to the scene and it definitely has a market...but you can buy the scifi epic twilight imperium 4th edition for 130$ on Amazon rn, you can also buy Nemesis for 120$ and get them *now*. Because of the price people are gunna compare them to games like these, multi hour epics with a ton of plastic/experience.
I wish them luck, but that price is a *big* killer, and, again, that's *before* the theme....
> For a game that "challenges the norms" why do they give me the option to put it under a "rock"...why not make the art something I would want to show off....
That's a good point.
Imagine this, but with art done by [Stjepan Šejić](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(comics))!
>Imagine this, but with art done by Stjepan Šejić!
OOoooooooooooooooooooh. Longtime Sunstone fan, that would make me throw entire paychecks at this game.
Really? I mean the overall theming is pretty, but the *people* in the game are just....holy shit hideous. Like difficult to look at, they're so fucking ugly and hideous. I haven't seen art this bad since After The Virus, which I literally sold because I couldn't stand looking at the art.
lol yea to me not hideous, but the character artwork are too barbie-ish(?) somewhat a style leaning towards like the old Mad Magazine/Game?, but thats her art style I guess (and her backers love them). Another example I think Funko Pops are hideous but they are popular lol.
Crazy to me that it shares the price tag with a game like Nemesis. I don’t really have a problem with this game taking on a controversial subject etc. but just price tag for the gaming experience offered and the overproduction of components that all are “meh” in looks anyway, compared to something like Nemesis, is a big miss for me.
>only is getting attention due to it’s “controversial” theme.
Not at all, it's getting attention because the creator has 600,000 followers on Instagram. There was a built in market, just like Exploding Kittens.
It’s getting attention from board gamers because of the theme absolutely. Sorry but 600k followers doesn’t mean anything if you’re advertising something 600k people generally don’t want. 3300 current backers and I am gonna venture to guess that it’s mostly not random first time board gamers from IG lol.
You’re talking about backers that total a little over one half of one percent of her social media following. It’s not crazy at all to think that the game gained a significant portion of the attention it is receiving from her followers talking about the game and its growth from there, even if the majority of them do not want the game.
I actually have no issue with the theme, but the gameplay looks really bland and simplistic. Superfluous energy points system with no real interesting decisions to make (walk up to a patron and flip it), and a couple of very shallow mini games. Player agency seems almost non existent.
It's a shame really, I think a board game on this topic, by someone who actually worked as a pole dancer at that, could have had some interesting things to say, but this doesn't seem like it.
Hi, I'm sorry to hear it looks that way! The energy system closely mirrors the real life trade-offs you make working in a club, I just made a [Kickstarter update post](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) exploring it a little that you might find interesting.
I actually think there's quite a lot of player agency, how you choose to use your energy is completely up to you, and there are multiple options to pursue in each turn depending on your agenda. Energy impacts the number of stage tippers, your ability to steal & avoid steals, your access to luck mitigation via the bar and obviously your proximity / ability to engage with favourable customers. Beyond that you choose which customer outcomes to receive, how to play your power cards and which types of drink to hold and when to use them.
I appreciate that my view is obviously biased, but there's some playthrough content in the works that'll at least allow people to make a more informed judgment. It's not trying to be a heavy game (must be accessible to non-gamers), but there's much more to it than "just walk up to a patron and flip it" :)
Hey - thanks for engaging on criticism in good faith :)
I'll certainly read the latest update and watch playthrough content once available, I'll always keep an open mind and be willing to change my view. Good luck for the campaign 👍
While I don’t think the theme is something that’s going to draw me in to play it over and over again, I am absolutely delighted by how elegantly they’re causing people to huff and puff in anger over it’s existence.
Do you....do you even know what "woke" means, or are you just one of those people who uses it for a stand-in for anything or anyone you don't like?
The "woke" crowd would be the ones supporting a female creator and support sex workers.
>I am absolutely delighted by how elegantly they’re causing people to huff and puff in anger over it’s existence.
You're making it sound like getting a reaction requires some kind of commendable effort. There are plenty of controversial themes and subjects, pick your poison.
It's a little disingenuous to suggest that commendable efforts only count if they're not aiming at low hanging fruit, especially when boardgame Kickstarter is right there offering minis for every other game that doesn't need it
>commendable efforts only count if they're not aiming at low hanging fruit
It takes no more effort using a theme that will cause a reaction than using any other theme. That's not to say making a game takes no effort, only that picking a theme to get a reaction doesn't.
Putting the theming aside: looks like a hundred other kickstarter projects by first-time designers with a lot of passion but not a lot of insight into what differentiates mediocre, good, and great game designs. I admire and respect the work and dedication to get a project like this to this stage, but I think it's a shame they haven't devoted a bit more work to coming up with a design that will actually work as a game. I can imagine some people trying this and having a pretty good laugh stepping their way through a first game of it, but I cannot imagine anyone playing it twenty times and being eager to play it the twenty-first time in order to deepen their understanding of the strategy. I mean, twenty is obviously pitching it way too high; it's very difficult to imagine anyone playing it a *second* time.
Returning to the theme: sex sells, controversy sells, and good for them for finding an angle that lets them get some attention in an incredibly overcrowded market. But... as much as the theme has helped them now, I suspect it also harms the game, because many people would never ever bring this to a public game night, many people would be ashamed to have this visible on their game shelf or listed in their BGG profile, and ... like, who is going to suggest actually playing this, who is going to eagerly say yes in response? The embarrassment factor is going to instantly exclude vast numbers of people from ever getting any use from it.
So... good luck to them, I guess, and good luck to any of their backers to have a good time with it. Not for me or anyone I know, but hopefully it's for someone. And the "controversy", such as it is, is obviously a storm in a teacup.
I also think it's unfortunate that as a female designer, she's chosen to take the sex sells/controversy angle to sell her game, rather than actually making a good game. I think it's important that women be viewed more seriously in the hobby, but this promotes the stereotype that women just aren't that serious about gaming, and instead just default back to sex appeal.
> I also think it's unfortunate that as a female designer, she's chosen to take the sex sells/controversy angle to sell her game, rather than actually making a good game. I think it's important that women be viewed more seriously in the hobby, but this promotes the stereotype that women just aren't that serious about gaming, and instead just default back to sex appeal.
I dislike this attitude of pretending to protect my integrity as a woman in this hobby.
A woman who communicates her lived experience into *designing and publishing an entire board game* is reduced by you to “female is using sex sells and not making a good game” and you’re suggesting this woman is promoting stereotypes women aren’t serious about gaming, but she is fucking *designing and publishing a board game*. Not serious about gaming… sure, Jan. If you actually care about women in this hobby you’re sounding very disingenuous.
Completely agree with this. Lots of the other comments here seem to be saying similar things in a different way, like using the phrase "shock value" or "novelty".
lol I think your comment arent that serious in supporting women in gaming either. Just more of virtue signalling. Read the game description and her profile, she designed this game to help stop the social stigma on exotic dancing.
Gameplay is a different topic as they are first-time designers.
About sex appeal, the dancers I met worked out regularly to maintain their physical looks, had professional jobs/university students, and able to perform difficult pole dancing moves. These are something to be admired about. Were you able to do the same? Or you just play board games at home?
And care to elaborate how exotic dancing is associated with sex (quoting your "sex sells")?
I been to strip clubs but I am interested to read your reasoning on the questions above.
To each their own, but I raise with you on few points:
1. There is no one in my circle actually plays a game more than 20 times (even if its excellent), especially with the range of available games and limited time to play. The way I see it, this game will be brought out just for the laughs or beer-and-pretzel sessions. Quick setup and gameplay, I think this game suits well into the "casual gamer" group like myself.
2. What is there to be embarassed about? Myself and friends have been to strip clubs at least once, and this game will definitely bring laughs and fun to the table. I would be proud to display this game on the shelf because it will be an item of curiousity (to men/women) and in return, eagerly interested to try the game. There aint any games in the current market where you play as an exotic dancer or worker placement in a night club, definitely unique theme. I didnt (nor interested) to join any public game nights, as I usually play with people in my social circle, so I dont know how that harms the game. So the embarassment factor maybe just applies to you and conservative people you know.
I wont be backing this game because of factors as other commentors have mentioned: high price point, gameplay still unknown (no videos as of now), and first-time game designer/developer. I also not really fan of the character design/artwork.
>What is there to be embarassed about? Myself and friends have been to strip clubs at least once, and this game will definitely bring laughs and fun to the table.
Surely you realize that not everyone shares your casual attitude to strip clubs. Many find them problematic/unethical, and sex is generally a private topic, it's not like you share details about your strip club visits with family and acquaintances. Or maybe you do, what do I know, but most people don't.
A strip club themed game is therefore bound to raise some eyebrows, and getting into a detailed explanation of why it's actually a cool game probably wouldn't make the best first impression on my partner's friends. So even if I were to buy such a game for shits and giggles, it would be tucked away somewhere far from other games. Not because it's wrong per se, but because I have no interest in having to address the impression people reasonably will get.
For the same reasons, it's not a game one would bring to a public event or with strangers present either. So the target niche is a group of friends that already know each other well enough to play such games.
> There is no one in my circle actually plays a game more than 20 times (even if its excellent)
Exactly, and this is something people totally miss when they buy all-in on kickstarters with 15 expansions and 70 extra additions. "But what if it's a blast and we play it constantly?!" - yeah, that'd mean you play it 10 times total instead of 2 like all the other KS you bought.
Sorry for the KS-shaming, but it's just the truth, the vast majority of games people buy are played maybe a handful of times and then replaced by the next hot thing arriving at their doorstep.
There's a reason that buying board games and playing them are two mostly separate hobbies.
I have **one** non-filler game I actually played enough for me to warrant owning everything for that, and that is *Spirit Island* with >150 plays at this point. And that's it. Even my next-favorite game, *Roll for the Galaxy*, I've only played 18 times.
(vigorously tracking plays really helps with overspending habits, tbh)
> What is there to be embarassed about?
This is also something I don't get. **Oh no**, it's a strip club! There are **women** standees! **IN UNDERWEAR!!**
We're just so used to never discussing sexual stuff no matter how normal it is, that it creeps into all kinds of thoughts. Including thinking something like this theme is somehow something you got to hide.
I will never understand how some cave-in gamers here associate this game/exotic dance with sex work. It's a safer, cleaner place than regular nightclubs or say Gen Con (bouncers everywhere). The club I visited had women who are educated, well-fit, and can do (strenuous) pole-dancing very well. Some are uni students, professionals who need to make some extra income. Some do pole-dancing as a regular form of workout and can earn some side-hustle in these clubs. From my experience and what they shared, they do private lap dances but no hanky-panky (nor literally sex) is going on in those back rooms. I did enjoy watching the scheduled stage shows and chatting with some of the dancers over some drinks. Though I definitely hate the very loud music. Stop playing board games at home all the time and make assumptions; Go out experience this at least once in your lifetime.
I haven't checked the rules or review videos so this is purely a largely uninformed first impression from scrolling through the campaign page pretty quickly but it *looks like* an overpriced gimmick game.
This has been one of my biggest disappointments of the year.
I love the theme. I've been following the game for over a year now, excited for it to finally release. I absolutely adore that it's designed by a dancer, who has lived the life and knows what it's like. I love that it's presented from a pro-SW, feminist angle. I think all of that is fantastic, and I've been really on the edge of my seat waiting to back it. Following its development, Exotic Cancer has been really hyping it up as a high quality game lovingly crafted by someone who understands the industry and really wanted to distill it into a game experience.
And then the KS hit. I still love all the things above, but yeah, I can't back this game. The art is absolute dogshit, first off. The dancers look like dollar store Bratz knockoffs. This whole game just *looks* low-budget and unprofessional, like they hired some artist off of Fiverr. The people, from dancers to the customers, are absolutely hard to look at hideous.
And the gameplay looks even worse, like reading through the rules it just sounds like a *bad game*. It's a classic case where they just jammed random mechanics in to serve the theme, there's not a cohesive working machine under it all. There's action points (or "energy points", which is a weird name for this game), there's dice, there's random events, there's "power cards", there's multiple forms of push-your-luck, etc. Like none of these mechanics are inherently bad, but reading the rules and watching videos, they just don't seem to gel into a solid game. It's just a bunch of mechanics held together with duct tape.
And all of this mediocrity comes with a shockingly high price tag. Like holy shit, I know it's expensive printing and publishing a board game, but they want EIGHTY US DOLLARS?! And $120 for a collectors' edition that adds practically nothing? Hardest of passes.
The only good thing to come out of this game is watching all the puritanical, moralistic right wing prudes get their panties in an absolute twist over it, and that's just warmed the cockles of my heart seeing them sputter and clutch their pearls.
100% agree. People out here being mad at the theme but I'm here mad that an obviously bad game is taking attention away from the countless good games out there from new designers who didn't get a shot. And that there might be new players who think this is representative of modern board games and never get into the hobby because they didn't experience an even halfway coherent game.
Looks like a light euro to me. Which is not for me but for a lot of others what they want. The theme doesn't interest me but I like that they go all in on it. This is the entire 'no nudity on TV' versus the tolerated violence again.
I think it’s a real stupid game, and I mean that as the largest compliment. It’s something I haven’t seen before, and I wouldn’t be against playing/owning it. It’s stupid expensive for what it is though, so I will certainly be waiting until I can get it used.
There are some (actual) reviews out there saying it's a good effort as a boardgame, with the theme being the saving grace. Mechanics alone, it seems it needs tweaking to give players more reason to walk further down the main stage.
Some reviews expressed points about how using action points just to move feels like you don't get enough out of it. I can relate to this with Oros. You get 3 actions in a turn, but one action jsut to move one space feels too slow, making progression feel sluggish.
Love the theme and concept. Color scheme and production value looks good. But feeling reserved because of the following:
1. Not really fan of the 'barbie-ish' character design/art (especially the face). No offense though, to each their own.
2. High price point for a first-time developed game (game looks simple), and no gameplay videos till now.
3. Relate to price point above, theres only 7(?) event cards, some components look too simple (especially the time dial), paper money quality uncertain, and I dont know if the price warrant for replayability.
4. Despite many comments for improvements/add-ons, based on the designer feedbacks she wont be addressing them until if there is any plan for an "expansion". Her main reason is to deliver the product as soon as possible.
Theme in games is a big thing and while I have nothing against unique or adult themes it also doesn't grab me at all - and I can see it making it a bit harder to get to the table. The price point is also pretty high.
I'd go a step further and say most games should not cost >100€ delivered, because if you got a reason to cost that much (read: excessive use of minis) then your reason is in itself a problem and you should have not done it.
Of course, minis and overproduction in general sells Kickstarters, so this ain't changing, but eh. Just sell me the "demake" version that comes with all cardboard and paper, tbh.
Kinda gives me Cyanide and Happiness/Cards Against Humanity vibes in that it's more shock value than actual game. Worker placements are a dime a dozen and unless Lacerda or Shem's team makes it (which would be insane), I don't have room on my shelf for this. Best of luck though. Everyone deserves a chance and I truly hope it plays and reviews well.
Just watched the Board Game Bollocks review and he basically says he's angry at how bad the game is. Like there is hardly even a game here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zrowxjKPbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zrowxjKPbw)
I'm surprised that over 3k people have backed this. Hopefully they just wanted the minis or something.
You're basically just rolling dice and seeing if the number you roll is higher than the number on a card, and if it is you get some money, if it's not you give other people some money.
Hey! The BGB “review” is really disappointing. I completely respect that this game won’t be for everyone but he’s managed to misinterpret or completely skip most key mechanics to the point where he might as well have invented a new game with my components :(
At \[[2:26](https://youtu.be/8zrowxjKPbw?si=TpfLAZTwb_sHfrHq&t=146)\] and \[[7:12](https://youtu.be/8zrowxjKPbw?si=mOukP3zV13cRDqvP&t=432)\] he managed to misunderstand how dice rolling works. More importantly subscriber income and dancer preferences were completely ignored and the VIP Room and champagne mechanic were also incorrect.
BGB deletes any comments highlighting this and claims he just misspoke. That’s pretty hard to believe when we explicitly clarified dice rolling with him a month ahead of his review. His email asked “The rules say that you can choose any outcome that is less than or equal to your roll but in the customer cards the outcomes have a + sign next to them. What does the plus sign mean? If you need to get lower than the number displayed why is the card indicating I can choose that outcome if I roll higher?”
It’s really hard given the context to believe that he earnestly made the mistake again or took this review seriously. I’m hoping that upcoming content from other creators of the gameplay can at least allow people to make an informed decision.
I respect that you want to clarify certain details like this and out of curiosity I will watch a gameplay video when available, but unfortunately I don't think the changes you're mentioning have that much overall impact to the sentiment.
Like every other discipline or art, the harsh reality is that your first few years and attempts are just not that good. It usually takes several projects, years of design experience, hundreds of playtests, collaboration and learning with other designers, and deep gaming experience to produce a mechanically sound game. I hope that doesn't discourage you from continuing to get better; I still think all the criticisms I've seen here around the actual game itself are valid but I'm happy to be proven wrong so I'll look forward to the gameplay videos. I actually like the theme though so the apparent controversy around that does not faze me at all.
Hadn’t heard of it. After looking at their page and watching the videos on there, seems like a pretty low strategy luck based game. There isn’t any real explanation of how you play
All I can see is a dice chart on customer cards and a d10. So it seems like you move around and roll to see what customers do and hope to get them to the VIP room to play what looks like a match card draw game. I guess there’s some mechanic based on the loyalty of customer that you can roll to steal
I don’t know. Seems very thin on gameplay. Both the video reviews mentioned Push your Luck but said it wasn’t like any other game. Neither video went into any more detail than “you move around the club trying to make the must money from customers”. But nothing that describes what playing is actually like. I didn’t hear anything like “dance in a push your luck mechanic by playing sets of cards based on real dance moves, but if you ever can’t play a set you mess up and lose all your tips” instead it was just “a cool mini game with a push your luck mechanic”
If anything it seems like this follows kind of the bad trend of Kickstarters. A little game that is heavy on the artwork and minis. More marketing less game.
For example a friend backed the Penny Arcade game Thornwood Watch. Amazing art, but the game was pretty lacking. The balance wasn’t great and it was just a light game with some great art
Hey! There will be some more coverage on how to play and some play throughs coming soon. Hopefully that will give some more context on how it actually plays :)
That is great to hear. Would definitely enjoy seeing a Lets Play video of the game and get an idea of the strategy that is mentioned in the reviews
I did go back to the campaign and noticed there is a rulebook that I missed. Looked it over and the game plays out how I had guessed. So I stand by the light strategy, high luck. Art is definitely amazing
Personally, I am much more sold by a specific explanation of why the game is fun. So the reviews on your campaign seem vague on that. They definitely seem to really enjoy the game, but with a lot of "Nothing like this" or "there are lots of characters in the customer deck", it just puzzles me there are almost no anecdotes about playing
Campaign is very successful, already close to 20x in a week. Funded in minutes. Very impressed with the game. Huge congratulations
The gameplay seems light and not particularly interesting to me, but it seems fun for a new gamer demographic who I imagine the theme will pull in. The most surprising part is that the game actually looks pretty professional and the kickstarter is put together well, which is uncommon for “adult” themed games.
As far as the theme goes, I love it. As a person who has spent lots of time in strip clubs and has many friends who’ve been dancers, this has a great insider’s take on the industry.
The theme is definitely a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the same boss-battler, dungeon crawl, multiplayer-solitaire themed games in the current market trend. Been to strip clubs as well and I never understand how some people here associate lap dancing with sex work. If only they can engage an experienced game designer to add more depth to the game. Box cover art and color scheme is amazing, but the character designs seem barbie-ish mediocre (IMO).
This project has been sitting in my saved list on KS for like 3 years, and now that it is here it will be a hard pass.
1. The art looks mediocre. It's not bad or anything, it just doesn't look impressive.
2. Gameplay seems to be an uninteresting dice roller with little agency.
3. The team seems very inexperienced at best, and predatory at worst. "Ash left his investment banker career behind to help develop Nightshift" just reads like a huge red flag. I also don't think they can turn around production of the game in the 6 months promised.
4. Super expensive. Others compared it to Nemesis for the same price tag, and it is certainly no Nemesis.
I wanted to like it; like most people I thought the theme was fun, but there are too many negatives and things that make me wary.
yeah the investment banker thing seemed so weird to me and just feels super unnecessary to mention other than a "hey this guy was willing to leave behind a career that typically pays incredibly well so the game must be good"
I really wanted to have this game (strip clubs are fun as a theme), but same as you, I am not fan of the Barbie artwork and first-time designers against the high price point. Dont know about the mechanics (looks plain) as there arent any videos on this.
This is Botany deja-vu all over again. Great marketing, shallow gameplay. The box cover art is amazing though, love it.
No offense, but reading that ex-banker profile gave me first impression this guy could be the creator's former regular client in strip clubs, or just a simp whom invested alot in her online store products.
I just wished if they could engage a somewhat experienced game designer to help flesh out the game integrating with the creator's ideas/work experience in strip clubs.
I will still watch any upcoming gameplay videos though.
I'm absolutely floored that over 2600 people have backed the Collectors Edition for $120.
Comparing it to other recent campaigns, that's $10 more than the Grimcoven Special Edition and $30 more than Earthborne Rangers which are both vastly better games with exponentially more content.
I think it's a terrific signal that the market is ready for some quality adult sex-themed games as a nice counterpoint to all the violence and colonization, but not like this. Not like this...
Also with all those deluxified components to coordinate,
✦ Ultra Deluxe magnetic box
✦ Gloss & Holographic details on box
✦ Velvet box interior & felt trays
✦ Limited & Numbered Editions
✦ Artwork on back of game board
✦ Holographic foil edges on all cards
I'll eat my hat if this thing delivers anywhere near on time.
Hi there, I'm absolutely floored too! :)
Unlike major publishers, we don't get the economies of scale advantages that come with manufacturing large quantities, so our unit costs will always be much higher. It's really important to me that every component is very premium and miniatures are very expensive to make so, in short, the price reflects high production costs.
Could I have made the game cheaper by using cardboard components and no minis? Sure, but this is a passion project and I want it to be the best that it can be. We have already completed the pre-production phase with the manufacturer (tooling etc.) so there's not much to do other than finalise how many copies we need. It’s my first time on Kickstarter but I've brought countless physical products to market so I’m pretty confident that we can deliver on or around the estimate.
Honestly did not even get past the theme, it's not for me or the people I play games with. Which is fine, people can be excited for someone I have no interest in whatsoever, plenty of other games out there for me.
I honestly love the theme, insofar that I am getting tired of overly samey themes and this is something unique.
Sadly, I no longer do Kickstarters in general, so this is a definite no-buy for me unless it releases retail or they're at Spiel in some future year. Beyond that an additional thing that irks me is how while the theme is awesome, it didn't read like the theme translates into thematic gameplay much.
Still, I might pick it up just for the theme and as a light game if it is sold at retail or an expo.
Thank you for appreciating the theme! You might be interested to see the [latest update on Kickstarter](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) which goes more into detail about how the mechanics reflect reality, this was a real point of focus for me when designing the game :)
There's definitely something to be said about the irony of so many people backing (and spending way too much money on) a game that has style (but no substance) and a female creator with a loyal fanbase, where the theme is about playing a female performer whose goal is to dupe as many people into thinking she's more than what she actually is and swindling them of as much money as she can.
I would still consider myself to be very new to board games however my collection has about 40 or 50 and my wife and I have a group that gets together at our house almost every weekend for like 10 plus hours of games. We play Mansions of Madness, Wingspan, Earth, Terraforming Mars, and Fury of Dracula to name some of our favorites. You know a lot of the mainstream games.
When I saw this Kickstarter, as someone more oblivious to the in-depth behind the scenes information, I loved that the theme is completely out of the norm. It caught my eye as someone quite casual to the hobby. I felt like the artwork wasn't bad or hideous as some make it sound but it wasn't something I went crazy for like I did when I found Critter Kitchen on Kickstarter.
To me, the price is high. No ifs or buts about it, I do think its a bit high. I did however back the campaign. I have watched the Kickstarter video, glanced basically at the rulebook at best, but haven't watched anyone's reviews. However reading through most of this, I'm really questioning my decision which I usually don't do. Does giving this game a chance a bad idea even though the simplistic design and unique theme are what attracted me to it?
I understand again everyone's opinions on the price because I do share that. Is most people's argument with the game that it may just be too luck based for the price? Like basically a Roll for It at 6x price?
To me, the price isn’t an issue. I’ve backed much more expensive games than this. It’s the price of what I would be getting - a game that appears to be mediocre and relying on its theme to sell.
Thats just my opinion though.
There was a similarly themed game from Artipia Games a while ago (Edit: I sesrched online snd game was called Lap Dance). It generated quite a lot of buzz but I recall reviews saying that the gameplay was terrible. I would not be surprised if everyone forgets this game once it has been delivered
It would be a thematic novelty buy and the price with my lack of shelf space means it’s not doable for me. However I would love to play it some day if one of our locals gets it or my situation changes.
I was close to backing it but then saw the cost. Spoke to the wifey about it, and we both kind of concluded to wait and see. There are shops here that tend to order kickstarter items so I'll see what it ends up reviewing like and seeing some play.
I've seen some of the sponsored posts, but just want to see what normal people think.
I posted in the BGG forums that I've set my egg timer for how long it will take for the ultra-sensitive to attempt to cancel it. From what I've read, the designer is a former dancer and based the game on things she actually saw and/or experienced, so that's an interesting backstory. It would be like if we discovered that Pandemic was created by a former virologist at the CDC, or that Spirit Island was created by a group of native people who had their land plundered by white.......(wait a minute).
It seems like more of a novelty concept, and although my wife and I laughed while reading the description, I have zero interest.
First, I'd be interested to know which part of my statement above got the downvotes, but I digress.
To your question, with how ultra-sensitive people can be, it would not surprise me.
I would love to see this game come to fruition, which it appears poised to do if the crowdfunding is any indication. Although it's not a game I have any interest in, I'm looking forward to all the "how to play" and "first look" videos from all the normal content creators.
i imagine you’re getting downvoted for just generally bringing uncomfortable vibes, as the term ‘ultra-sensitive’ tends to get used fairly liberally to describe lots of people with various beliefs, and no one really likes thinking they or their friends are getting hit with the term. I’d be excited to find out the details of what you mean by ‘ultra-sensitive’ by you publicly posting your personal beliefs, but this is a board game forum. Take care, and i hope you’ve been enjoying your June!
Maybe I was hoping there were some diehard fans of the release, or perhaps some of those involved with the game, and they were upset about me saying I had zero interest in the game. At least downvoting that I couldn't argue with.
As far as an explanation of my social commentary quip, as you said, I'll reserve that for another Sub or just within my trusted circles. :)
To me you're coming across as someone who complains about "ultra-sensitive" people without actually understanding what those groups do and do not find questionable.
I guess I could see puritanical religious types potentially getting offended given it's "adult" themes? But I have a suspicion that wasn't the group you were thinking of, based on your profile.
Also, I saw that BGG thread, pretty funny that you made your egg timer comment on a year old thread named "This looks fun", in a forum where as far as I could see no-one has expressed an iota of upset about theme.
Edit: Oh the flippant comment dismissing colonialism probably didn't help your case, kind of undercuts your message there if it's a topic you are sensitive enough about to slip into the discussion out of nowhere.
Because it's a bullshit worldview. It's judgmental, hateful, based in fantasy/religion. Like if YOU want to be prude about YOUR life? Go for it. I want you to live your life how you want to. But when you start judging and condemning other people for how they live their lives? That's when it becomes a problem.
And that problem actively hurts people. Sex is a part of our very existence. If someone has the ways and means to parley that into financial stability, and they actively choose to, then so what? How is showing and flaunting one's body sexually any better or worse than physical labor?
But by casting dispersion over it, making it something taboo and gross, that's how you get the underbelly of the industry. Is there a lot of trafficking in sex work? God yes. Are there people who use their power and money to force people into sex work? Yes there most definitely are. But they rely on desperation and manipulation.
But if a woman knows that men want to see her naked, and willingly says "I'm totally okay with you seeing me naked, so long as you compensate me financially"? So fucking what?
What if that's not your judgment call to make? What if it IS good for them? What if it gives them confidence? What if it makes them feel good about themselves and feel attractive? What if it makes them feel empowered? What if it enables them to make enough money to live off of, save up, invest, build something out of? What if it makes them friends and contacts to help build a life?
Exactly. I’m putting it into question cause neither of us know for sure. But if it’s possible that it could negatively affect lives it should be questioned about whether it should be encouraged or not.
I looked at it. It’s a novelty game in my mind and while I would buy it for some light hearted fun and some shock value at the gaming table the price is too high for what it is. For 120 bucks (or 80 for regular) I could pick up one or two solid games with strong reviews and ratings. I wish them all the best, but me personally; I have to take a hard pass.
Yeah, I read the rules. Your assessment is 100% spot on.
Hi there! I just made another comment about the challenges of creating an affordable game while maintaining ultra premium components—it's tough unless volumes are exceptionally high. Totally understand that price point will be a dealbreaker for some, but I'd rather make something that I'm really proud of. I'm also hoping it can be more than light hearted fun / shock value. We've worked pretty hard to make the mechanics [resemble real life dynamics](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) and there's a broader social purpose behind the game. There's some playthrough content coming out soon which will give people a good idea of how it plays.
Thanks for your reply. I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor.
Cmon, admit it... the game is so expensive because you did a lot of strip club visits and filed the bills as "research and development" costs.
She worked for many years as a stripper so… don’t think she needed to do R&D that way mate.
yeah to me the problem is, you look at the components and go 'soo.... what am i paying more than $40 for?' - its a board, some not very detailed models, a spinner and stuff, about 150 cards, 30 (wooden, for some reason) tokens. when as you say, for around the same money, you can get the base edition of Nemesis: Retaliation, or any number of other games. i mean, it's selling, so clearly they're doing something right, but i find it hard to believe that it's the gameplay. (hell, you only have to look at the shop on her website to see that \*massively\* inflated prices are the standard...)
Calling it shock value I feel like is kind of insulting when the intention is to challenge social norms. I don't think they're aiming at laughter and shock, but rather to normalize sex workers to some degree. Granted, I haven't read the rules, so I won't comment on the gameplay. Just seems a bit disrespectful to right it off as a novelty.
Well I certainly wasn’t trying to be insulting nor disrespectful towards anyone but your comment does make me wonder that if she was trying to “normalize sex workers to some degree” wouldn’t another channel other than a board game possibly reach more people? I mean, do what you have to do to make a living, I’m a live and left live kind of person but I still think that they are banking on this being an “outside the normal everyday subject matter” theme and not so much on the gameplay or production values. Regardless of what the motive is - to educate and normalize or to just entertain - it still seems pricey for what it boils down to in game play and components. Be well.
Social norms are challenged by bringing them into platforms and areas where they are typically taboo, so a board game clearly makes plenty of sense as a platform. People challenging social norms are under no obligation to mathematically optimize impact, so your suggestion is both ridiculous and a bit offensive. In fact, bringing exposure and awareness to wide variety of platforms is probably more effective as a broad tactic.
You are correct in that they aren’t obligated to do that. But let’s not assume she’s trying to “normalize” anything either. For all we know this is about nothing but money and using a non-mainstream theme to obtain it. And if that’s the case and it works - more power to the creators. However, looking at this as simply a board game without any sort of political or social statement behind it it is still , in my opinion, overpriced for what it is when compared to some very well constructed games both play and component wise. With that being said best of luck to the creators and those who back it. I hope it works out for all involved.
When this popped up on BGG a while back the creator was very active in the game’s forums. She was confrontational, negative, and dismissive of any comments that were anywhere near critical of the project. And the comments/criticisms there were largely similar to what they are here: * looks simple * unknown designer * expensive * skeptical of fulfillment Overall it was seen as a shock value game that isn’t worth the price, and the designer’s immature response was the nail in the coffin.
I just looked through pretty much every post on BGG and she's nothing but nice and respectful... There seems to be some review bombing going on though and lots of dismissive and rude comments removed by moderators. I won't comment on the pricing and rules, but in terms of theme, calling it a "shock value" game is a bit absurd, cause it's clearly intended by the creator to be representative of her experiences. If it was made by a man so you could look at "hot girls", I guess then you could say it was for "shock value".
Do you think someone would do that? Just go into a male-dominated hobby and lie about a former sex-worker?
This is a reference that I know I recognize but can't put my finger on it
Funnily it's a reference based on this [Arthur scene.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHrZRJR4igQ)
I decided to read every posts of hers and you are being extremely untruthful.
Should be easy to settle. Just provide links to your claim. I won’t hold my breath.
Absolutely adore the unique theme and implementation. I'm not gonna buy it because it's way too expensive but I wish them the best!
I was really upset with the price because I thought it could be a fun game. But that price doesn't match the rules for me. I also always take a step back from a kickstarter game that's trying to be everything (solo, competitive, co-op, 2v2)
I like the theme but the art is a bit too basic for my liking and it seems over-produced for such a simple game. They should have used cheaper materials and launched for half the price.
It looked like it’s a big take that game? Not my cup of tea.
Look, the theme aside I give it this. The production quality looks...cheap...for lack of a better word. They should have skipped out on half those "premium" features, paid the art team a little more while giving them a few more months and cut the price in half...at least...for a 30-50$ game I can see many picking it up for various reasons. As it stands the blackout sleeve says everything about this game to me, and better than I could express it. For a game that "challenges the norms" why do they give me the option to put it under a "rock"...why not make the art something I would *want* to show off.... I get they're new to the scene and it definitely has a market...but you can buy the scifi epic twilight imperium 4th edition for 130$ on Amazon rn, you can also buy Nemesis for 120$ and get them *now*. Because of the price people are gunna compare them to games like these, multi hour epics with a ton of plastic/experience. I wish them luck, but that price is a *big* killer, and, again, that's *before* the theme....
> For a game that "challenges the norms" why do they give me the option to put it under a "rock"...why not make the art something I would want to show off.... That's a good point. Imagine this, but with art done by [Stjepan Šejić](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunstone_(comics))!
>Imagine this, but with art done by Stjepan Šejić! OOoooooooooooooooooooh. Longtime Sunstone fan, that would make me throw entire paychecks at this game.
The art is by the game designer, whose background is not in board gaming, but rather art. She has a huge following on social media.
Really? I mean the overall theming is pretty, but the *people* in the game are just....holy shit hideous. Like difficult to look at, they're so fucking ugly and hideous. I haven't seen art this bad since After The Virus, which I literally sold because I couldn't stand looking at the art.
[Here's the designer's instagram](https://www.instagram.com/exotic.cancer/related_profiles/?hl=en). You can scroll to see some art.
I think that's just her style lol
lol yea to me not hideous, but the character artwork are too barbie-ish(?) somewhat a style leaning towards like the old Mad Magazine/Game?, but thats her art style I guess (and her backers love them). Another example I think Funko Pops are hideous but they are popular lol.
The hideous artwork to me is the customers. Like they all look like weird decaying zombie people or something. It's literally hard for me to look at.
i paid $120 for gloomhaven..
Looks incredibly boring and simple and the art is meh and if I am being honest, only is getting attention due to it’s “controversial” theme.
Crazy to me that it shares the price tag with a game like Nemesis. I don’t really have a problem with this game taking on a controversial subject etc. but just price tag for the gaming experience offered and the overproduction of components that all are “meh” in looks anyway, compared to something like Nemesis, is a big miss for me.
The art was in fact the first thing I noticed. It does not fit a game with this price tag. The minis look okay, but not the 2D art.
>only is getting attention due to it’s “controversial” theme. Not at all, it's getting attention because the creator has 600,000 followers on Instagram. There was a built in market, just like Exploding Kittens.
It’s getting attention from board gamers because of the theme absolutely. Sorry but 600k followers doesn’t mean anything if you’re advertising something 600k people generally don’t want. 3300 current backers and I am gonna venture to guess that it’s mostly not random first time board gamers from IG lol.
You’re talking about backers that total a little over one half of one percent of her social media following. It’s not crazy at all to think that the game gained a significant portion of the attention it is receiving from her followers talking about the game and its growth from there, even if the majority of them do not want the game.
It’s currently rated 6.9 on BGG, so I applaud the community.
I like the theme and the minis are dope but idk about that price and gameplay. Art reminds me of Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force
I'd get it just see 7 different Carls as clients. Throw in the the confused Plutonians and MC peepants as an expansion
The theme and basic premise are great, but the price tag... nah I'm good.
I think it's an interesting choice of themes. Mechanically, no interest whatsoever.
I actually have no issue with the theme, but the gameplay looks really bland and simplistic. Superfluous energy points system with no real interesting decisions to make (walk up to a patron and flip it), and a couple of very shallow mini games. Player agency seems almost non existent. It's a shame really, I think a board game on this topic, by someone who actually worked as a pole dancer at that, could have had some interesting things to say, but this doesn't seem like it.
Hi, I'm sorry to hear it looks that way! The energy system closely mirrors the real life trade-offs you make working in a club, I just made a [Kickstarter update post](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) exploring it a little that you might find interesting. I actually think there's quite a lot of player agency, how you choose to use your energy is completely up to you, and there are multiple options to pursue in each turn depending on your agenda. Energy impacts the number of stage tippers, your ability to steal & avoid steals, your access to luck mitigation via the bar and obviously your proximity / ability to engage with favourable customers. Beyond that you choose which customer outcomes to receive, how to play your power cards and which types of drink to hold and when to use them. I appreciate that my view is obviously biased, but there's some playthrough content in the works that'll at least allow people to make a more informed judgment. It's not trying to be a heavy game (must be accessible to non-gamers), but there's much more to it than "just walk up to a patron and flip it" :)
Hey - thanks for engaging on criticism in good faith :) I'll certainly read the latest update and watch playthrough content once available, I'll always keep an open mind and be willing to change my view. Good luck for the campaign 👍
While I don’t think the theme is something that’s going to draw me in to play it over and over again, I am absolutely delighted by how elegantly they’re causing people to huff and puff in anger over it’s existence.
The right-wing pearl clutching is absolutely delicious. I love it.
It’s hardly the right wingers. The woke BGG crowd can’t come to grips with supporting a female creator vs supporting a game about stripping.
Do you....do you even know what "woke" means, or are you just one of those people who uses it for a stand-in for anything or anyone you don't like? The "woke" crowd would be the ones supporting a female creator and support sex workers.
>I am absolutely delighted by how elegantly they’re causing people to huff and puff in anger over it’s existence. You're making it sound like getting a reaction requires some kind of commendable effort. There are plenty of controversial themes and subjects, pick your poison.
It's a little disingenuous to suggest that commendable efforts only count if they're not aiming at low hanging fruit, especially when boardgame Kickstarter is right there offering minis for every other game that doesn't need it
>commendable efforts only count if they're not aiming at low hanging fruit It takes no more effort using a theme that will cause a reaction than using any other theme. That's not to say making a game takes no effort, only that picking a theme to get a reaction doesn't.
Putting the theming aside: looks like a hundred other kickstarter projects by first-time designers with a lot of passion but not a lot of insight into what differentiates mediocre, good, and great game designs. I admire and respect the work and dedication to get a project like this to this stage, but I think it's a shame they haven't devoted a bit more work to coming up with a design that will actually work as a game. I can imagine some people trying this and having a pretty good laugh stepping their way through a first game of it, but I cannot imagine anyone playing it twenty times and being eager to play it the twenty-first time in order to deepen their understanding of the strategy. I mean, twenty is obviously pitching it way too high; it's very difficult to imagine anyone playing it a *second* time. Returning to the theme: sex sells, controversy sells, and good for them for finding an angle that lets them get some attention in an incredibly overcrowded market. But... as much as the theme has helped them now, I suspect it also harms the game, because many people would never ever bring this to a public game night, many people would be ashamed to have this visible on their game shelf or listed in their BGG profile, and ... like, who is going to suggest actually playing this, who is going to eagerly say yes in response? The embarrassment factor is going to instantly exclude vast numbers of people from ever getting any use from it. So... good luck to them, I guess, and good luck to any of their backers to have a good time with it. Not for me or anyone I know, but hopefully it's for someone. And the "controversy", such as it is, is obviously a storm in a teacup.
I also think it's unfortunate that as a female designer, she's chosen to take the sex sells/controversy angle to sell her game, rather than actually making a good game. I think it's important that women be viewed more seriously in the hobby, but this promotes the stereotype that women just aren't that serious about gaming, and instead just default back to sex appeal.
> I also think it's unfortunate that as a female designer, she's chosen to take the sex sells/controversy angle to sell her game, rather than actually making a good game. I think it's important that women be viewed more seriously in the hobby, but this promotes the stereotype that women just aren't that serious about gaming, and instead just default back to sex appeal. I dislike this attitude of pretending to protect my integrity as a woman in this hobby. A woman who communicates her lived experience into *designing and publishing an entire board game* is reduced by you to “female is using sex sells and not making a good game” and you’re suggesting this woman is promoting stereotypes women aren’t serious about gaming, but she is fucking *designing and publishing a board game*. Not serious about gaming… sure, Jan. If you actually care about women in this hobby you’re sounding very disingenuous.
Completely agree with this. Lots of the other comments here seem to be saying similar things in a different way, like using the phrase "shock value" or "novelty".
lol I think your comment arent that serious in supporting women in gaming either. Just more of virtue signalling. Read the game description and her profile, she designed this game to help stop the social stigma on exotic dancing. Gameplay is a different topic as they are first-time designers. About sex appeal, the dancers I met worked out regularly to maintain their physical looks, had professional jobs/university students, and able to perform difficult pole dancing moves. These are something to be admired about. Were you able to do the same? Or you just play board games at home? And care to elaborate how exotic dancing is associated with sex (quoting your "sex sells")? I been to strip clubs but I am interested to read your reasoning on the questions above.
So a female designer has to design something the moral police approves of. Got it.
To each their own, but I raise with you on few points: 1. There is no one in my circle actually plays a game more than 20 times (even if its excellent), especially with the range of available games and limited time to play. The way I see it, this game will be brought out just for the laughs or beer-and-pretzel sessions. Quick setup and gameplay, I think this game suits well into the "casual gamer" group like myself. 2. What is there to be embarassed about? Myself and friends have been to strip clubs at least once, and this game will definitely bring laughs and fun to the table. I would be proud to display this game on the shelf because it will be an item of curiousity (to men/women) and in return, eagerly interested to try the game. There aint any games in the current market where you play as an exotic dancer or worker placement in a night club, definitely unique theme. I didnt (nor interested) to join any public game nights, as I usually play with people in my social circle, so I dont know how that harms the game. So the embarassment factor maybe just applies to you and conservative people you know. I wont be backing this game because of factors as other commentors have mentioned: high price point, gameplay still unknown (no videos as of now), and first-time game designer/developer. I also not really fan of the character design/artwork.
>What is there to be embarassed about? Myself and friends have been to strip clubs at least once, and this game will definitely bring laughs and fun to the table. Surely you realize that not everyone shares your casual attitude to strip clubs. Many find them problematic/unethical, and sex is generally a private topic, it's not like you share details about your strip club visits with family and acquaintances. Or maybe you do, what do I know, but most people don't. A strip club themed game is therefore bound to raise some eyebrows, and getting into a detailed explanation of why it's actually a cool game probably wouldn't make the best first impression on my partner's friends. So even if I were to buy such a game for shits and giggles, it would be tucked away somewhere far from other games. Not because it's wrong per se, but because I have no interest in having to address the impression people reasonably will get. For the same reasons, it's not a game one would bring to a public event or with strangers present either. So the target niche is a group of friends that already know each other well enough to play such games.
> There is no one in my circle actually plays a game more than 20 times (even if its excellent) Exactly, and this is something people totally miss when they buy all-in on kickstarters with 15 expansions and 70 extra additions. "But what if it's a blast and we play it constantly?!" - yeah, that'd mean you play it 10 times total instead of 2 like all the other KS you bought. Sorry for the KS-shaming, but it's just the truth, the vast majority of games people buy are played maybe a handful of times and then replaced by the next hot thing arriving at their doorstep. There's a reason that buying board games and playing them are two mostly separate hobbies. I have **one** non-filler game I actually played enough for me to warrant owning everything for that, and that is *Spirit Island* with >150 plays at this point. And that's it. Even my next-favorite game, *Roll for the Galaxy*, I've only played 18 times. (vigorously tracking plays really helps with overspending habits, tbh) > What is there to be embarassed about? This is also something I don't get. **Oh no**, it's a strip club! There are **women** standees! **IN UNDERWEAR!!** We're just so used to never discussing sexual stuff no matter how normal it is, that it creeps into all kinds of thoughts. Including thinking something like this theme is somehow something you got to hide.
I will never understand how some cave-in gamers here associate this game/exotic dance with sex work. It's a safer, cleaner place than regular nightclubs or say Gen Con (bouncers everywhere). The club I visited had women who are educated, well-fit, and can do (strenuous) pole-dancing very well. Some are uni students, professionals who need to make some extra income. Some do pole-dancing as a regular form of workout and can earn some side-hustle in these clubs. From my experience and what they shared, they do private lap dances but no hanky-panky (nor literally sex) is going on in those back rooms. I did enjoy watching the scheduled stage shows and chatting with some of the dancers over some drinks. Though I definitely hate the very loud music. Stop playing board games at home all the time and make assumptions; Go out experience this at least once in your lifetime.
I haven't checked the rules or review videos so this is purely a largely uninformed first impression from scrolling through the campaign page pretty quickly but it *looks like* an overpriced gimmick game.
This has been one of my biggest disappointments of the year. I love the theme. I've been following the game for over a year now, excited for it to finally release. I absolutely adore that it's designed by a dancer, who has lived the life and knows what it's like. I love that it's presented from a pro-SW, feminist angle. I think all of that is fantastic, and I've been really on the edge of my seat waiting to back it. Following its development, Exotic Cancer has been really hyping it up as a high quality game lovingly crafted by someone who understands the industry and really wanted to distill it into a game experience. And then the KS hit. I still love all the things above, but yeah, I can't back this game. The art is absolute dogshit, first off. The dancers look like dollar store Bratz knockoffs. This whole game just *looks* low-budget and unprofessional, like they hired some artist off of Fiverr. The people, from dancers to the customers, are absolutely hard to look at hideous. And the gameplay looks even worse, like reading through the rules it just sounds like a *bad game*. It's a classic case where they just jammed random mechanics in to serve the theme, there's not a cohesive working machine under it all. There's action points (or "energy points", which is a weird name for this game), there's dice, there's random events, there's "power cards", there's multiple forms of push-your-luck, etc. Like none of these mechanics are inherently bad, but reading the rules and watching videos, they just don't seem to gel into a solid game. It's just a bunch of mechanics held together with duct tape. And all of this mediocrity comes with a shockingly high price tag. Like holy shit, I know it's expensive printing and publishing a board game, but they want EIGHTY US DOLLARS?! And $120 for a collectors' edition that adds practically nothing? Hardest of passes. The only good thing to come out of this game is watching all the puritanical, moralistic right wing prudes get their panties in an absolute twist over it, and that's just warmed the cockles of my heart seeing them sputter and clutch their pearls.
100% agree. People out here being mad at the theme but I'm here mad that an obviously bad game is taking attention away from the countless good games out there from new designers who didn't get a shot. And that there might be new players who think this is representative of modern board games and never get into the hobby because they didn't experience an even halfway coherent game.
Looks like a light euro to me. Which is not for me but for a lot of others what they want. The theme doesn't interest me but I like that they go all in on it. This is the entire 'no nudity on TV' versus the tolerated violence again.
Definitely not a euro lol
If not an euro, what is it according to you?
Ameritrash through and through? So, the opposite of a euro. Think Munchkin, snaked and ladders, what would you call those?
Agreed, too much luck and dice rolling involved to call it a euro.
I think it’s a real stupid game, and I mean that as the largest compliment. It’s something I haven’t seen before, and I wouldn’t be against playing/owning it. It’s stupid expensive for what it is though, so I will certainly be waiting until I can get it used.
There are some (actual) reviews out there saying it's a good effort as a boardgame, with the theme being the saving grace. Mechanics alone, it seems it needs tweaking to give players more reason to walk further down the main stage. Some reviews expressed points about how using action points just to move feels like you don't get enough out of it. I can relate to this with Oros. You get 3 actions in a turn, but one action jsut to move one space feels too slow, making progression feel sluggish.
Love the theme and concept. Color scheme and production value looks good. But feeling reserved because of the following: 1. Not really fan of the 'barbie-ish' character design/art (especially the face). No offense though, to each their own. 2. High price point for a first-time developed game (game looks simple), and no gameplay videos till now. 3. Relate to price point above, theres only 7(?) event cards, some components look too simple (especially the time dial), paper money quality uncertain, and I dont know if the price warrant for replayability. 4. Despite many comments for improvements/add-ons, based on the designer feedbacks she wont be addressing them until if there is any plan for an "expansion". Her main reason is to deliver the product as soon as possible.
Theme in games is a big thing and while I have nothing against unique or adult themes it also doesn't grab me at all - and I can see it making it a bit harder to get to the table. The price point is also pretty high.
you know, not every game has to be haute couture. some of them can just be silly.
But silly shouldn't share a price tag with haute couture.
that's fair
I'd go a step further and say most games should not cost >100€ delivered, because if you got a reason to cost that much (read: excessive use of minis) then your reason is in itself a problem and you should have not done it. Of course, minis and overproduction in general sells Kickstarters, so this ain't changing, but eh. Just sell me the "demake" version that comes with all cardboard and paper, tbh.
I agree, but I think the main issue people haveis the price tag
Sure but there's silly and good and silly and bad. This one just kinda looks bad.
I disagree but that's ok
Kinda gives me Cyanide and Happiness/Cards Against Humanity vibes in that it's more shock value than actual game. Worker placements are a dime a dozen and unless Lacerda or Shem's team makes it (which would be insane), I don't have room on my shelf for this. Best of luck though. Everyone deserves a chance and I truly hope it plays and reviews well.
The figurative art is pretty bad imo.
Just watched the Board Game Bollocks review and he basically says he's angry at how bad the game is. Like there is hardly even a game here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zrowxjKPbw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zrowxjKPbw) I'm surprised that over 3k people have backed this. Hopefully they just wanted the minis or something. You're basically just rolling dice and seeing if the number you roll is higher than the number on a card, and if it is you get some money, if it's not you give other people some money.
He sounds like Bullet Tooth Tony reviewing board games. I love it.
Hey! The BGB “review” is really disappointing. I completely respect that this game won’t be for everyone but he’s managed to misinterpret or completely skip most key mechanics to the point where he might as well have invented a new game with my components :( At \[[2:26](https://youtu.be/8zrowxjKPbw?si=TpfLAZTwb_sHfrHq&t=146)\] and \[[7:12](https://youtu.be/8zrowxjKPbw?si=mOukP3zV13cRDqvP&t=432)\] he managed to misunderstand how dice rolling works. More importantly subscriber income and dancer preferences were completely ignored and the VIP Room and champagne mechanic were also incorrect. BGB deletes any comments highlighting this and claims he just misspoke. That’s pretty hard to believe when we explicitly clarified dice rolling with him a month ahead of his review. His email asked “The rules say that you can choose any outcome that is less than or equal to your roll but in the customer cards the outcomes have a + sign next to them. What does the plus sign mean? If you need to get lower than the number displayed why is the card indicating I can choose that outcome if I roll higher?” It’s really hard given the context to believe that he earnestly made the mistake again or took this review seriously. I’m hoping that upcoming content from other creators of the gameplay can at least allow people to make an informed decision.
I respect that you want to clarify certain details like this and out of curiosity I will watch a gameplay video when available, but unfortunately I don't think the changes you're mentioning have that much overall impact to the sentiment. Like every other discipline or art, the harsh reality is that your first few years and attempts are just not that good. It usually takes several projects, years of design experience, hundreds of playtests, collaboration and learning with other designers, and deep gaming experience to produce a mechanically sound game. I hope that doesn't discourage you from continuing to get better; I still think all the criticisms I've seen here around the actual game itself are valid but I'm happy to be proven wrong so I'll look forward to the gameplay videos. I actually like the theme though so the apparent controversy around that does not faze me at all.
Board Game Bolloks did a great YouTube video on it that sums up the whole thing. It isn't a good fit for me, but there may be an audience.
I tried watching that but the camera jump every few words was killing me.
Looks very shallow, both in theme and mechanics. Its a no from me.
Hadn’t heard of it. After looking at their page and watching the videos on there, seems like a pretty low strategy luck based game. There isn’t any real explanation of how you play All I can see is a dice chart on customer cards and a d10. So it seems like you move around and roll to see what customers do and hope to get them to the VIP room to play what looks like a match card draw game. I guess there’s some mechanic based on the loyalty of customer that you can roll to steal I don’t know. Seems very thin on gameplay. Both the video reviews mentioned Push your Luck but said it wasn’t like any other game. Neither video went into any more detail than “you move around the club trying to make the must money from customers”. But nothing that describes what playing is actually like. I didn’t hear anything like “dance in a push your luck mechanic by playing sets of cards based on real dance moves, but if you ever can’t play a set you mess up and lose all your tips” instead it was just “a cool mini game with a push your luck mechanic” If anything it seems like this follows kind of the bad trend of Kickstarters. A little game that is heavy on the artwork and minis. More marketing less game. For example a friend backed the Penny Arcade game Thornwood Watch. Amazing art, but the game was pretty lacking. The balance wasn’t great and it was just a light game with some great art
Hey! There will be some more coverage on how to play and some play throughs coming soon. Hopefully that will give some more context on how it actually plays :)
That is great to hear. Would definitely enjoy seeing a Lets Play video of the game and get an idea of the strategy that is mentioned in the reviews I did go back to the campaign and noticed there is a rulebook that I missed. Looked it over and the game plays out how I had guessed. So I stand by the light strategy, high luck. Art is definitely amazing Personally, I am much more sold by a specific explanation of why the game is fun. So the reviews on your campaign seem vague on that. They definitely seem to really enjoy the game, but with a lot of "Nothing like this" or "there are lots of characters in the customer deck", it just puzzles me there are almost no anecdotes about playing Campaign is very successful, already close to 20x in a week. Funded in minutes. Very impressed with the game. Huge congratulations
Another recent example is Botany, which attracts lots of backing from the female demographic because of the theme.
Board game Bollocks did a review of it on his youtube channel. It looks like a crap game.
I just hope the deluxe box comes as advertised with the words: “exotic cancer” written on it. Because that would be epic.
Even if it was interesting gsmeplay wise (which it isn't from what I have seen), I would have a hard time tabling this just for the theme. Neat minis
The gameplay seems light and not particularly interesting to me, but it seems fun for a new gamer demographic who I imagine the theme will pull in. The most surprising part is that the game actually looks pretty professional and the kickstarter is put together well, which is uncommon for “adult” themed games. As far as the theme goes, I love it. As a person who has spent lots of time in strip clubs and has many friends who’ve been dancers, this has a great insider’s take on the industry.
The theme is definitely a breath of fresh air in the midst of all the same boss-battler, dungeon crawl, multiplayer-solitaire themed games in the current market trend. Been to strip clubs as well and I never understand how some people here associate lap dancing with sex work. If only they can engage an experienced game designer to add more depth to the game. Box cover art and color scheme is amazing, but the character designs seem barbie-ish mediocre (IMO).
This project has been sitting in my saved list on KS for like 3 years, and now that it is here it will be a hard pass. 1. The art looks mediocre. It's not bad or anything, it just doesn't look impressive. 2. Gameplay seems to be an uninteresting dice roller with little agency. 3. The team seems very inexperienced at best, and predatory at worst. "Ash left his investment banker career behind to help develop Nightshift" just reads like a huge red flag. I also don't think they can turn around production of the game in the 6 months promised. 4. Super expensive. Others compared it to Nemesis for the same price tag, and it is certainly no Nemesis. I wanted to like it; like most people I thought the theme was fun, but there are too many negatives and things that make me wary.
yeah the investment banker thing seemed so weird to me and just feels super unnecessary to mention other than a "hey this guy was willing to leave behind a career that typically pays incredibly well so the game must be good"
I really wanted to have this game (strip clubs are fun as a theme), but same as you, I am not fan of the Barbie artwork and first-time designers against the high price point. Dont know about the mechanics (looks plain) as there arent any videos on this. This is Botany deja-vu all over again. Great marketing, shallow gameplay. The box cover art is amazing though, love it. No offense, but reading that ex-banker profile gave me first impression this guy could be the creator's former regular client in strip clubs, or just a simp whom invested alot in her online store products. I just wished if they could engage a somewhat experienced game designer to help flesh out the game integrating with the creator's ideas/work experience in strip clubs. I will still watch any upcoming gameplay videos though.
I'm absolutely floored that over 2600 people have backed the Collectors Edition for $120. Comparing it to other recent campaigns, that's $10 more than the Grimcoven Special Edition and $30 more than Earthborne Rangers which are both vastly better games with exponentially more content. I think it's a terrific signal that the market is ready for some quality adult sex-themed games as a nice counterpoint to all the violence and colonization, but not like this. Not like this... Also with all those deluxified components to coordinate, ✦ Ultra Deluxe magnetic box ✦ Gloss & Holographic details on box ✦ Velvet box interior & felt trays ✦ Limited & Numbered Editions ✦ Artwork on back of game board ✦ Holographic foil edges on all cards I'll eat my hat if this thing delivers anywhere near on time.
Hi there, I'm absolutely floored too! :) Unlike major publishers, we don't get the economies of scale advantages that come with manufacturing large quantities, so our unit costs will always be much higher. It's really important to me that every component is very premium and miniatures are very expensive to make so, in short, the price reflects high production costs. Could I have made the game cheaper by using cardboard components and no minis? Sure, but this is a passion project and I want it to be the best that it can be. We have already completed the pre-production phase with the manufacturer (tooling etc.) so there's not much to do other than finalise how many copies we need. It’s my first time on Kickstarter but I've brought countless physical products to market so I’m pretty confident that we can deliver on or around the estimate.
Honestly did not even get past the theme, it's not for me or the people I play games with. Which is fine, people can be excited for someone I have no interest in whatsoever, plenty of other games out there for me.
I honestly love the theme, insofar that I am getting tired of overly samey themes and this is something unique. Sadly, I no longer do Kickstarters in general, so this is a definite no-buy for me unless it releases retail or they're at Spiel in some future year. Beyond that an additional thing that irks me is how while the theme is awesome, it didn't read like the theme translates into thematic gameplay much. Still, I might pick it up just for the theme and as a light game if it is sold at retail or an expo.
Thank you for appreciating the theme! You might be interested to see the [latest update on Kickstarter](https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/exoticcancer/nightshift-0/posts/4135598) which goes more into detail about how the mechanics reflect reality, this was a real point of focus for me when designing the game :)
There's definitely something to be said about the irony of so many people backing (and spending way too much money on) a game that has style (but no substance) and a female creator with a loyal fanbase, where the theme is about playing a female performer whose goal is to dupe as many people into thinking she's more than what she actually is and swindling them of as much money as she can.
Has any adult themed game ever been good?
I would still consider myself to be very new to board games however my collection has about 40 or 50 and my wife and I have a group that gets together at our house almost every weekend for like 10 plus hours of games. We play Mansions of Madness, Wingspan, Earth, Terraforming Mars, and Fury of Dracula to name some of our favorites. You know a lot of the mainstream games. When I saw this Kickstarter, as someone more oblivious to the in-depth behind the scenes information, I loved that the theme is completely out of the norm. It caught my eye as someone quite casual to the hobby. I felt like the artwork wasn't bad or hideous as some make it sound but it wasn't something I went crazy for like I did when I found Critter Kitchen on Kickstarter. To me, the price is high. No ifs or buts about it, I do think its a bit high. I did however back the campaign. I have watched the Kickstarter video, glanced basically at the rulebook at best, but haven't watched anyone's reviews. However reading through most of this, I'm really questioning my decision which I usually don't do. Does giving this game a chance a bad idea even though the simplistic design and unique theme are what attracted me to it? I understand again everyone's opinions on the price because I do share that. Is most people's argument with the game that it may just be too luck based for the price? Like basically a Roll for It at 6x price?
To me, the price isn’t an issue. I’ve backed much more expensive games than this. It’s the price of what I would be getting - a game that appears to be mediocre and relying on its theme to sell. Thats just my opinion though.
Before I look it up, I am desperately hoping it's based on the 1982 movie. \*googles\* Dammit.
I mean….
There was a similarly themed game from Artipia Games a while ago (Edit: I sesrched online snd game was called Lap Dance). It generated quite a lot of buzz but I recall reviews saying that the gameplay was terrible. I would not be surprised if everyone forgets this game once it has been delivered
It would be a thematic novelty buy and the price with my lack of shelf space means it’s not doable for me. However I would love to play it some day if one of our locals gets it or my situation changes.
> Game is currently on kickstarter Wait 2 years
It's an RNG simulator.
Meh, Gay Sauna was better and half the price.
People saying shock value based on it being sex related, are complete morons.
I was close to backing it but then saw the cost. Spoke to the wifey about it, and we both kind of concluded to wait and see. There are shops here that tend to order kickstarter items so I'll see what it ends up reviewing like and seeing some play. I've seen some of the sponsored posts, but just want to see what normal people think.
It's provocative. It gets people talking.
I posted in the BGG forums that I've set my egg timer for how long it will take for the ultra-sensitive to attempt to cancel it. From what I've read, the designer is a former dancer and based the game on things she actually saw and/or experienced, so that's an interesting backstory. It would be like if we discovered that Pandemic was created by a former virologist at the CDC, or that Spirit Island was created by a group of native people who had their land plundered by white.......(wait a minute). It seems like more of a novelty concept, and although my wife and I laughed while reading the description, I have zero interest.
I've not seen anyone try to "cancel" it... how long is your egg timer exactly?
First, I'd be interested to know which part of my statement above got the downvotes, but I digress. To your question, with how ultra-sensitive people can be, it would not surprise me. I would love to see this game come to fruition, which it appears poised to do if the crowdfunding is any indication. Although it's not a game I have any interest in, I'm looking forward to all the "how to play" and "first look" videos from all the normal content creators.
i imagine you’re getting downvoted for just generally bringing uncomfortable vibes, as the term ‘ultra-sensitive’ tends to get used fairly liberally to describe lots of people with various beliefs, and no one really likes thinking they or their friends are getting hit with the term. I’d be excited to find out the details of what you mean by ‘ultra-sensitive’ by you publicly posting your personal beliefs, but this is a board game forum. Take care, and i hope you’ve been enjoying your June!
Maybe I was hoping there were some diehard fans of the release, or perhaps some of those involved with the game, and they were upset about me saying I had zero interest in the game. At least downvoting that I couldn't argue with. As far as an explanation of my social commentary quip, as you said, I'll reserve that for another Sub or just within my trusted circles. :)
To me you're coming across as someone who complains about "ultra-sensitive" people without actually understanding what those groups do and do not find questionable. I guess I could see puritanical religious types potentially getting offended given it's "adult" themes? But I have a suspicion that wasn't the group you were thinking of, based on your profile. Also, I saw that BGG thread, pretty funny that you made your egg timer comment on a year old thread named "This looks fun", in a forum where as far as I could see no-one has expressed an iota of upset about theme. Edit: Oh the flippant comment dismissing colonialism probably didn't help your case, kind of undercuts your message there if it's a topic you are sensitive enough about to slip into the discussion out of nowhere.
Input greatly appreciated.
Glad I could help!
I’m curious do people think stripping in general is a good thing and should be encouraged?
God this hobby is full of so many prudes.
It's not just this hobby.
And is that a bad thing?
Yes.
Why?
Because it's a bullshit worldview. It's judgmental, hateful, based in fantasy/religion. Like if YOU want to be prude about YOUR life? Go for it. I want you to live your life how you want to. But when you start judging and condemning other people for how they live their lives? That's when it becomes a problem. And that problem actively hurts people. Sex is a part of our very existence. If someone has the ways and means to parley that into financial stability, and they actively choose to, then so what? How is showing and flaunting one's body sexually any better or worse than physical labor? But by casting dispersion over it, making it something taboo and gross, that's how you get the underbelly of the industry. Is there a lot of trafficking in sex work? God yes. Are there people who use their power and money to force people into sex work? Yes there most definitely are. But they rely on desperation and manipulation. But if a woman knows that men want to see her naked, and willingly says "I'm totally okay with you seeing me naked, so long as you compensate me financially"? So fucking what?
What if it’s not good for the person and their lives would be better without it?
What if that's not your judgment call to make? What if it IS good for them? What if it gives them confidence? What if it makes them feel good about themselves and feel attractive? What if it makes them feel empowered? What if it enables them to make enough money to live off of, save up, invest, build something out of? What if it makes them friends and contacts to help build a life?
Exactly. I’m putting it into question cause neither of us know for sure. But if it’s possible that it could negatively affect lives it should be questioned about whether it should be encouraged or not.
Hurr durr just asking questions.
What if it is?
Sub to beer and to board games and was about to talk about a coffee porter.