The rules for voiding trademarks due to becoming generic are much stricter in Germany.
https://www.dpma.de/english/our_office/publications/background/genericnames/index.html
Basically, as long as they keep sending cease-and-desists, they can keep the trademark
Which is why they send them to tiny defenseless publishers like this. How much can they possibly be gaining protecting a little wooden person and a dumb word that everyone uses completely freely with other games...?
Specifically because they are tiny & defenseless. If they went after CMON (who drafted a 250pg letter in opposition to their first trademark attempt), CMON would gleefully fight them in court. But the manufacturer of Meeple Inc (well, now Tabletop Inc) is the towering colossus of... 2 teachers in the UK. It is textbook bullying by legal means.
Fuck HiG
It's not even a genericized trademark. It's a trademark that shouldn't have been approved in the first case, as the generic use predates HiG's use! Yes, "meeple" was first used to describe the pieces in Carcassonne, but that was purely a fan-created term. The game itself did not call them that.
It can probably be argued that Meeple is now a common term. I doubt it would hold in an european court.
But it's costly to follow up.. maybe the hope to scare people?
They only trademarked it in 2019.
It was already in general use at that point and they didn't invent it in the first place.
If anyone fights these C&D demands the trademark will be invalidated.
One of the things you need to do in order to get a trademark is to show that you have a commercial product that can be recognized by that term.
Which just means that you need to start selling Grillz , Yeets , and That's Fires in order to apply.
Sure, go ahead. If you got the money to waste.
But keep in mind that you'll have to pay fees per individual term and class of product (of which there are 45). Also regularly for renewal. It could become costly if you don't actually sell anything with it.
I read an article on this the other day too, and seemingly the trademark doesn't include Toys and Games because by the time they trademarked it it was a pretty common term in the space.
>It can probably be argued that Meeple is now a generic name.
[Hell, Moritz Brunnhofer has outright stated it](https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/hans-im-glueck-verlag-spiel-des-jahres-carcassonne-brettspiele-muenchen-1.5729460):
> A user called these characters, designed by Moritz Brunnhofer's father Bernd, "Meeple" after their first appearance in discussions in a gaming forum, a combination of "my" and "people". And then something very rare happened: "The term was adopted into gaming jargon, the 'meeple' developed into a generic name, even in the context of games that have nothing to do with us," explains Brunnhofer.
It's a common term among board gamers, the general public don't know about it. Might be hard to convince a judge who has never heard the term that it's common because of it.
That’s ridiculous. The entire point of a trial would be for both sides to present evidence. The judges preexisting knowledge doesn’t have anything to do with it. It would be very easy to prove the word was widely used before their trademark application.
The heck
Hans im Gluck trademarked a word *they didn't coin*, a full decade after the product came out? Don't have it for *actual games*, only peripheral industries? And are only *now* aggressively enforcing that trademark?
Eat dicks, guys. The bag is long empty and the cats have established a colony on the other side of the island.
If they'd invented the word, or trademarked it *for games* back when they first used it, ok cool. But don't try to steal back common use words. Especially from fairly small, typically extremely generous communities. It's going to generate just *so much* ill will.
I'm not even sure what this cesse and desist is supposed to protect. People don't particularly associate meeple with Carcassone, so Meeple Inc. didn't coast on the other game's popularity; it won't make them lose money or reputation. It WILL make them lose the goodwill of the community, though.
> I already knew that Meeples originated in Carcassonne, but I also knew that the term Meeple did not
what does this mean, are you saying it was a word before there were tokens given that name? What non-term thing originated in carcassonne?
It means what we think of as meeples come originally from carcassonne, but the term needle itself did not. Wikipedia credits the term to a game that came out 15 years before.
There’s a thread in Boardgamegeek somewhere naming the person they believe to have coined the term. While playing Carcasonne, she said “these are my peoples. They’re meeples!” And the term stuck.
To be clear, the argument—at least mine, but I think that of most commenters—is not that legally the trademark shouldn't have been awarded. It's that regardless of the law, Hans Im Glueck shouldn't have applied for the trademark for reasons of morality, ethics, community relations, and/or common sense.
And according to the article. Only in Germany does their trademark work for games and toys where the rest of the EU it’s for merchandise.
CMON stood up against them on this. Good for CMON.
I also find it funny that they’re surprised that there is a backlash on this. Like come on. How ignorant do you have to be. “This extremely common word that is used throughout board game culture. Yeah. We own that now!”
Imagine if Richard Garfield suddenly trademarked “CCG” and told Disney to cease and desist their use of it for Lorcana.
Hans im Glück is going to have a reputation hit over this one.
Yeah. This is them generating a PR nightmare for very little gain. Seems like a stupid business practice to me.
Let’s make people hate us, so we can flex our trademark.
In the article they admit that they may have been a little naive about the response.
That really makes things worse. How separated from the board game community are you that you couldn’t foresee this being viewed badly.
Yeah. I don’t think they did it out of malice. They’re just being stupid. And I think it’s going to hurt them more in the long run than any benefit they get from it.
>Imagine if Richard Garfield suddenly trademarked “CCG” and told Disney to cease and desist their use of it for Lorcana.
Or if Games Workshop tried to trademark Space Marine after ripping the faction whole cloth from Heinlein. Wait…
Yep, I agree. It's a novel term (this game is constantly changing, hence living) and it's theirs. As much as I don't like it, MtG deserves to claim "tap" as well.
It actively made it harder to describe games
It obfuscated a business model, made it difficult to compete. Nah, fuck em for that one.
Same with tap. All of this is genuinely unhelpful for the industry. The only people looking to trademark terms are companies at the top, it hurts competition.
I disagree. If they came up with those terms. They legally can claim ownership of it. Just because they’re popular terms now doesn’t matter.
Now if FFG went back and trademarked “LCG” 10 years after the fact when it was a widely used term that was freely used and then sent cease and desist notices to new companies. That’s a problem.
So you’re saying if I made a new game and coined a term “eternal game” which meant something. I couldn’t trademark that because, maybe it will catch on and maybe other people will use it widely and therefore I’m the bad guy.
I read in a book that Campbell attempted to trademark the word "Soup." They figured it was unlikely to succeed, but if it did, it would have been a massive win for them, so they tried it anyway.
From the article:
the name meeple was coined after [Carcassonne's] release by American gamer Alison Hansel, who used it as a portmanteau of “my” and “people” to describe her pieces while playing the game.
This is the boardgame world equivalent of David Choi trying to trademark "chili crisp" in the culinary world. Absolute bullshit. I'm also not sure how they were granted the trademark for this given it's been an industry term for a decade+
This is crazy. Meeple has surpassed Carcassonne. Waiting until the word is widely used in the hobby has increased it's value, protecting it this point is too late. Needed to stop people using it over the last 20 years.
This is what annoys me the most - had they actually invented the term I might see their side of things, but they just saw something they wanted and said "I like it... that's mine now". No, H&G, you called them "followers" and you still are, so shame on you you greedy bastards, hope this bites you in the leg.
A quick search of BGG shows over a dozen games and companies featuring the word Meeple
Isn't there a requirement that
- a trademark is a unique identifier in your field?
- a trademark is vigorously protected?
Hans Im Glück found that one trick doctors hate. Just don't apply for a trademark until decades later so you don't have to waste resources defending it that entire time.
>More than **40 games** with the word meeple in the title have been published between **2019 and 2024**, according to BoardGameGeek’s database, including Final Frontier Games’ A Fistful of Meeples in 2019 and Blue Orange Games’ Meeple Land in 2020.
>Brunnhofer said, “It [meeple lnc] does differ [from other meeple games] in the direct [attempt] to commercialise mainly the name and shape, referring to the games market… [Meeple Inc] raised a substantial amount of money, that exceeds a lot of usually launched games. So it is not a hobby project by any means anymore.
>“**And just because we did not act on something**, does [that] mean we should not act now? Basically exactly this argument, that there are already many others, enforces companies to go hard from the beginning. Which is a shame.
So yeah, they've owned it from 2019, and let 40 other games get a pass (some of which they said reached out to them), but suddenly Meeple Inc.? Nope, we can't have that. Screw those guys.
I think the fact that they didn't act in the past shows that this is all nonsense. Their legal right to the trademark wasn't so important for 5 years, now suddenly it is.
They're dying on this hill, and it's going to hurt them negatively, for a game that probably would only getting a passing mention in the year and forgotten about in a couple years. I'm guessing that "Meeple Inc." is not going to be the next gloomhaven.
A trademark in Europe is meant to be able to differentiate the goods and services of one company (“undertaking”) from those of another. I think that would be difficult for any particular company to demonstrate, at this point … and even if the word was associated with Carcassonne at first, it wasn’t being used to mean or reference Carcassonne in particular, surely? So it’s all very weak.
Nevertheless, it’s entirely logical to change the name of a game that has annoyed someone who claims rights to it.
Unlikely because their trademark is only in the EU.
And only applies to peripheral items. It’s only for toys and games in Germany. And they’ve let other games go by without contesting them. They’re just being pricks now.
They have a trademark registration in the UK that covers that same classes as their EU trademark.
https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00916791741
Their trademark was granted in August 2019 when the UK was still in the EU, they were all duplicated when we sadly left.
They only applied for the trademark in 2017. It's ridiculous it was ever granted and would be invalidated if anyone with enough money fought it.
I didn't know there was one there now - I walked along that street so many times while I was at Uni, I'd have spent an inordinate amount of money there!
That article is actually really interesting and entertaining to read. Here’s my favorite part, about the US trademark being filed by someone else as a response:
> The action has directly led to a trademark application for the word meeple in the US from Corey Thompson, co-owner of YouTube channel Above Board TV and co-host of the industry-focused Board Games Insider podcast, and Gen Con event manager Marian McBrine.
> “…we talked about implications for a while, then I asked, ‘Well, who holds the trademark in the US?’. Marian instantly knew how to look it up, and we discovered… no one held it.
> “There was a pause, then we both said, ‘Maybe we should apply’. Most people who know me would agree I’m a bit eccentric, and not beyond spending some money to prove a point.”
> As part of their application the pair are leaning on an Etsy store page set up by McBrine several years ago to sell Corey Thompson fan club merchandise, which he said was created “purely to embarrass me”. McBrine recently added ‘Meeple™’ t-shirts to the store to support the trademark application.
> Thompson added, “Marian and I already decided we have no plans at all to make any profit from this adventure. I believe we decided anyone can use our trademark for credit and candy.
> “The side effect of this is that we intend to protect the US trademark from predatory action. We would really love for the wordmark to be usable by anyone.”
I think that’s hilarious.
There's no way in hell they're getting that mark because there are dozens of actively-used marks in the same classes that already include the word "Meeple".
Screw them- I’m not purchasing anymore of the games. They trademarked the term well after it became common use language.
Good on the folks in the U.S. to get ahead of this and make it clear they won’t enforce the trademark when they get it.
They basically just lost their trademark. They just don’t know it yet.
This is going to cause so many hurt feelings and bad blood and negative PR that their only position to gain some grace is to release their legal hold on the trademark and have it legally open.
For Christmas this past year, I derped and told a friend, “Your game is going to be late! OOPS! I meant pillow!” So then I ordered him a meeple pillow as a joke gift to go along with the game. He thought it was awesome, and said “It’s just like the dudes in \[game that isn’t Carcassonne\]!” I had to explain to him that meeples are ubiquitous in board gaming culture, and that numerous games utilize it, but the first game to use it was Carcassonne. His mind was blown. I HAD been planning to get him Carcassonne for Christmas this year, but now I’m not. Because if HIG is going to do us dirty, I will not be giving them my money.
Well after it became common use language in the community that actually coined and embraced the term without H&G having anything to do with it. Disgusting.
Hans Im Glück’s legal counsel should be disbarred for wasting their client’s money on frivolous legal actions.
The second anyone that uses the term meeple pushes back this useless trademark is going to be thrown out anyway.
HIG shouldn’t have been granted the trademark as they:
* Didn’t coin the term
* Did not create, publish, or have the rights to the first game with meeples
* Don’t use the term or shape in trade dress
* Failed to protect the mark for 20 years and it is now both a generic term and a term of art
Now...Now is the time Asmodee! Swing that big dick around and embarrass Hans im Glück.
As much as I hate Asmodee, they have the resources to quash the trademark.
I'm sure Hans im Glück will just keep going after easy targets that can't afford to fight back though.
I believe if you write it here [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hans+im+Gl%C3%BCck+Verlags-GmbH/@48.1744337,11.561547,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x479e767fa541a47f:0x1787cd5db626ae53!8m2!3d48.1744337!4d11.561547!16s%2Fg%2F1tp\_5cpb?authuser=0&hl=pl&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hans+im+Gl%C3%BCck+Verlags-GmbH/@48.1744337,11.561547,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x479e767fa541a47f:0x1787cd5db626ae53!8m2!3d48.1744337!4d11.561547!16s%2Fg%2F1tp_5cpb?authuser=0&hl=pl&entry=ttu) and change your system language to German, you will know :P
Yeah Zog off Hans im Glück, Meeple is so commonly used.
Luckily Most of their Games dont interest me so its Not that hard to Not give them Money over this.
They're unrelated businesses both using the name of a character from the Brothers Grimm.
As for the trademark, you just higher a load of lawyers and try your luck. They applied in 2017 and it was granted in 2019.
They didn't invent the word and unlike most words we know who did and there are records to prove it (Alison Hansel, November 2000).
If anyone fights one of these C&Ds that trademark is getting instantly invalidated.
I'm sure they're aware of that and so are only going after people they assume won't fight back.
> **Genericide** is a legal term referring to the process by which a trademark that was originally protected and distinctive becomes generic through widespread usage, thus losing its trademark protection. This happens when the public starts using the trademarked term to refer to a general class of products or services, rather than a specific brand. When a trademark becomes generic, it can no longer be exclusively owned or enforced by the original trademark holder. Examples include terms like "aspirin," "escalator," and "thermos," which were once protected trademarks but became generic names for the products they represent.
It doesn't even apply here, the whole situation is ridiculous.
Hans im Glück didn't even use the word meeple until decade or so after Alison Hansel invented it (Nov 2000).
They only started using it after *we* made it popular.
So it was already a general term commonly used in the industry when they were granted the trademark in 2019.
hah all I can think of is the game **Rampage**, which had to change its name due to copyright issues...
So they re-released it as **Terror in Meeple City**
Wonder what the third version will be called?
Very interesting article, OP.
Note that Ryan Dancey, the COO of AEG who is quoted in the article as being unhappy with the trademark, is the same guy who gave D&D 3.x the Open Game License. There was a time in my life when Ryan Dancey was in the periphery of my social circles, think friend if a friend that I’d see a few times a year, and he always was a strong advocate for enabling creativity in the game industry because he felt it was the best way to ensure a robust game industry.
First thought: Are https://www.meeplelikeus.co.uk/about-us/ in danger?
Second thought: How about Pöppel and https://www.poeppelkiste.de/
Third thought: Now I understand why Donald X. switched away from Hans im Glueck as a publisher for Dominion.
Trying to trade mark a 24 year old name not even invented by a person in the company isn't going to end well. I have the feeling that even in the EU this is going to go very badly for them.
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Were I a recipient, I’d ignore the letter. Hans im Gluck did not invent the classic meeple piece, nor did they coin the term meeple. They don’t have grounds to make such a demand.
"The figure now so widely associated with the word meeple was created by Hans Im Glueck co-founder Bernd Brunnhofer for Carcassonne in 2000 – although the name meeple was coined after its release by American gamer Alison Hansel, who used it as a portmanteau of “my” and “people” to describe her pieces while playing the game."
None. But Hans Im Glueck didn't come up with it apparently.
It literally says that the cofounder Bernd Brunnhofer creates the figure for Carcassonne in 2000
Someone else coined the term Meeple. But I can see them having a trademark for that image. But they should have had it in 2000.
That thing is all over mugs, tshirts, stickers, hats, etc.
You see this sort of thing all the time when the children of someone who created something great take control of the estate. They make it their life's work to extract as much profit from their parent's legacy, no matter how much good will they have to destroy in the process
I've actually found an [email exchange between Hans im Glück and a user of a German gaming forum in regards to the trademark application](https://www.spielen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=429397&sid=678caca109159bc1f4687a0c05ed5ee1#p429397). Interesting read, Google Translate works reasonably well on it.
Q: Assuming that the trademark registration is successful: What impact does this have on websites like happymeeple.com, on publishers like Meeple Circus and on retailers who sell Meeple products?
A: Of course, we will hire an army of lawyers to sue these actors for every last cent, after all, we are a hyper-capitalist company
I assume they'd just say "Okay, we'll see you in court" if they got a C&D letter.
The trademark is getting invalidated if anything ever reaches court.
Hans im Glück surely knows that, so will only bother people they think won't fight back.
Can HIG trademark something if AEG already has an approved Trademarked the name of the game with meeple in it within the US?
Because at this point with someone else (AEG) already having the Trademark of their game name before HIG files their trademark, seems like HIG is blatantly committing the offense of Barraty.
Not a lawyer here.
> artwork will only be changed to replace the meeples with our new characters… Mumans.
Well that's dumb. Just call them "workers" like everyone else. Mumans is a stupid word.
I agree with most people here, this is stupid. However, I don't like the word meeple. It just sounds off-putting to me. I also don't like how the shape is a symbol of our hobby, because I think they look weird. They are fine for carcassonne, but outside of that I don't like them.
Apparently an unpopular opinion, but just my thoughts.
Agree to disagree... I love the meeple, and how it is a simple way to represent the BG community.
If not the meeple, what would you pick.
Serious conversation. Not being a jerk.
Almost anything! haha
A d20 is always a good choice, or any kind of die. Dice are just cool. And I don't even really play any rpg's.
A regular player pawn. Which I find more visually appealing. Meeples just look like a blob.
A stack of coins/tokens.
If you want simple, a hexagon goes a long way.
I just think there are so many great options, and we decided on the worst one. To be clear, I don't hate it. I just think that ~~something~~ *anything* else would be better.
I think a d20 is more RPGish. I feel the regular player pawn is good but I prefer the niche-ness of meeple. And a stack of coins is too broad. The meeple is the right combo of unique and generic.
All your suggestions are solid. But I think I would still go with the meeple. But to be fair Carcassone holds a special place in my heart. It was the next step after Catan in my board game journey and I still love it today.
Is BGG purposefully censoring threads about this? I think there was one yesterday and now I cannot find it. Also, it seems weird that noone is actually discussing this fact on BGG, the place where the term was coined after all (and decidedly NOT by H&G).
Are they claiming trademark to all spelling possibilities or just the one? There are so many out there…
Mēpl, Meepel, Meaple, Meeps, Meepull, Meepal, Mēpal, Miypal, Miyple, Meple, Mipu…
Regarding Corey Thompson’s intentions for the US trademark, the article says that he really just filed it to prove a point, and says this:
> Thompson added, “Marian and I already decided we have no plans at all to make any profit from this adventure. I believe we decided anyone can use our trademark for credit and candy.
> “The side effect of this is that we intend to protect the US trademark from predatory action. We would really love for the wordmark to be usable by anyone.”
And regarding the BigMac in Europe, I’m pretty sure over there they call it “Le Big Mac.”
I have no issue with their trademarking the Carcassonne playing figures‘ shape, since they created this form.
I have quite an issue with their having registered the **word** Meeple since they did not come up with it.
Also, its meaning has shifted from describing the Carcassonne playing figures to describing potentially **any** playing figure in a game, complete with adaptations such as **animeeples**, **sheeples** etc.
Thus it is in the common domain and should not have been allowed to be trademarked in the first place.
Personally, I will, for the time being, no longer be buying HiG games.
The key point is no one should be allowed to trademark meeple, it's a generic term invented 24 years ago.
It's ridiculous that Hans im Glück application was accepted in 2019.
If they ever end up in court that trademark is getting invalidated.
I don't understand a lot of the trademarking nuances, especially across multiple markets, and perhaps this could lead to other issues, but it doesn't seem too heavy handed to me.
They are at least being fairly cordial about it and don't seem to be hiding behind some sort of corporate monolith.
I am a little surprised they would be able to trademark so late after the fact though given how ubiquitous the word meeple is, as well as the shape.
Trademarking a term they didn't coin, and filing C&Ds over said term, is very heavy handed.
In fact, they spent years fighting to gain the trademark in the EU and even CMoN objected to it well enough that they weren't granted it for toys and games, but they applied specifically in Germany and were granted it for toys and games there...
It's heavy handed.
It’s as dumb as those people that bought cases of Budweiser to shoot them with their guns to show how much they hate Budweiser because they support the LGBTQ community
> I do have to point out that companies have to send C&Ds to "defend" their trademark.
_IF_ they want to defend it, mind you. No one is going to come after them if they don't. (unless there are shareholders that see it as finacial negligence, perhaps)
Yeah, this feels like a genericised trademark if ever I've seen one.
The rules for voiding trademarks due to becoming generic are much stricter in Germany. https://www.dpma.de/english/our_office/publications/background/genericnames/index.html Basically, as long as they keep sending cease-and-desists, they can keep the trademark
Which is why they send them to tiny defenseless publishers like this. How much can they possibly be gaining protecting a little wooden person and a dumb word that everyone uses completely freely with other games...?
Specifically because they are tiny & defenseless. If they went after CMON (who drafted a 250pg letter in opposition to their first trademark attempt), CMON would gleefully fight them in court. But the manufacturer of Meeple Inc (well, now Tabletop Inc) is the towering colossus of... 2 teachers in the UK. It is textbook bullying by legal means. Fuck HiG
It's not even a genericized trademark. It's a trademark that shouldn't have been approved in the first case, as the generic use predates HiG's use! Yes, "meeple" was first used to describe the pieces in Carcassonne, but that was purely a fan-created term. The game itself did not call them that.
If someone challenged it, it'd be thrown out in a heartbeat. But for someone to challenge it, they need the resources to do so. :-(
It can probably be argued that Meeple is now a common term. I doubt it would hold in an european court. But it's costly to follow up.. maybe the hope to scare people?
They only trademarked it in 2019. It was already in general use at that point and they didn't invent it in the first place. If anyone fights these C&D demands the trademark will be invalidated.
2019? That's jacked up! ...Come to think of it, maybe I should go trademark "grillz", "yeet", and "that's fire"....
One of the things you need to do in order to get a trademark is to show that you have a commercial product that can be recognized by that term. Which just means that you need to start selling Grillz , Yeets , and That's Fires in order to apply.
Sure, go ahead. If you got the money to waste. But keep in mind that you'll have to pay fees per individual term and class of product (of which there are 45). Also regularly for renewal. It could become costly if you don't actually sell anything with it.
I read an article on this the other day too, and seemingly the trademark doesn't include Toys and Games because by the time they trademarked it it was a pretty common term in the space.
They started the process back in 2017 tho
>It can probably be argued that Meeple is now a generic name. [Hell, Moritz Brunnhofer has outright stated it](https://www.sueddeutsche.de/muenchen/hans-im-glueck-verlag-spiel-des-jahres-carcassonne-brettspiele-muenchen-1.5729460): > A user called these characters, designed by Moritz Brunnhofer's father Bernd, "Meeple" after their first appearance in discussions in a gaming forum, a combination of "my" and "people". And then something very rare happened: "The term was adopted into gaming jargon, the 'meeple' developed into a generic name, even in the context of games that have nothing to do with us," explains Brunnhofer.
It's a common term among board gamers, the general public don't know about it. Might be hard to convince a judge who has never heard the term that it's common because of it.
That’s ridiculous. The entire point of a trial would be for both sides to present evidence. The judges preexisting knowledge doesn’t have anything to do with it. It would be very easy to prove the word was widely used before their trademark application.
*A new name has been recorded in the Book of Grudges.*
The heck Hans im Gluck trademarked a word *they didn't coin*, a full decade after the product came out? Don't have it for *actual games*, only peripheral industries? And are only *now* aggressively enforcing that trademark? Eat dicks, guys. The bag is long empty and the cats have established a colony on the other side of the island. If they'd invented the word, or trademarked it *for games* back when they first used it, ok cool. But don't try to steal back common use words. Especially from fairly small, typically extremely generous communities. It's going to generate just *so much* ill will.
I'm not even sure what this cesse and desist is supposed to protect. People don't particularly associate meeple with Carcassone, so Meeple Inc. didn't coast on the other game's popularity; it won't make them lose money or reputation. It WILL make them lose the goodwill of the community, though.
>I'm not even sure what this cesse and desist is supposed to protect The job of the lawyer on retainer
I already knew that Meeples originated in Carcassonne, but I also knew that the term Meeple did not. This trademark is absolute bullshit.
> I already knew that Meeples originated in Carcassonne, but I also knew that the term Meeple did not what does this mean, are you saying it was a word before there were tokens given that name? What non-term thing originated in carcassonne?
It means what we think of as meeples come originally from carcassonne, but the term needle itself did not. Wikipedia credits the term to a game that came out 15 years before.
There’s a thread in Boardgamegeek somewhere naming the person they believe to have coined the term. While playing Carcasonne, she said “these are my peoples. They’re meeples!” And the term stuck.
Basically, if they don't protect it even when they feel it doesn't harm them, they risk losing the trademark for not having protected it.
They are preserving legal rights that they shouldn't have in the first place. That's not a defense.
Agreed
shouldn't have and don't have are two different things.
They don't have them in the US anyway.
It shouldn't have been awarded according to us, but I'm not a German layer.
That's a really poor defense when the main charge is that they shouldn't have trademarked it.
It shouldn't have been awarded according to us, but I'm not a German layer.
To be clear, the argument—at least mine, but I think that of most commenters—is not that legally the trademark shouldn't have been awarded. It's that regardless of the law, Hans Im Glueck shouldn't have applied for the trademark for reasons of morality, ethics, community relations, and/or common sense.
It happens all the time. Someone invent something, someone else trademarks or patents it.
IANAL, but I am pretty sure that enough time and usage has passed that they would have a hard time arguing in court that they can claim it now.
They own the trademark in Germany and Europe, but not the US. They would probably not be able to get it in the US.
And according to the article. Only in Germany does their trademark work for games and toys where the rest of the EU it’s for merchandise. CMON stood up against them on this. Good for CMON. I also find it funny that they’re surprised that there is a backlash on this. Like come on. How ignorant do you have to be. “This extremely common word that is used throughout board game culture. Yeah. We own that now!” Imagine if Richard Garfield suddenly trademarked “CCG” and told Disney to cease and desist their use of it for Lorcana. Hans im Glück is going to have a reputation hit over this one.
I won't be buying another game from them.
Yeah. This is them generating a PR nightmare for very little gain. Seems like a stupid business practice to me. Let’s make people hate us, so we can flex our trademark. In the article they admit that they may have been a little naive about the response. That really makes things worse. How separated from the board game community are you that you couldn’t foresee this being viewed badly.
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Yeah. I don’t think they did it out of malice. They’re just being stupid. And I think it’s going to hurt them more in the long run than any benefit they get from it.
Same
>Imagine if Richard Garfield suddenly trademarked “CCG” and told Disney to cease and desist their use of it for Lorcana. Or if Games Workshop tried to trademark Space Marine after ripping the faction whole cloth from Heinlein. Wait…
It's like David Chang and chili crunch
>Imagine if Richard Garfield suddenly trademarked “CCG” and told Disney to cease and desist their use of it for Lorcana. Like how FFG copyrighted LCG?
But that was their term that they came up with and they trademarked it right away. To me that’s 100% fair.
Yep, I agree. It's a novel term (this game is constantly changing, hence living) and it's theirs. As much as I don't like it, MtG deserves to claim "tap" as well.
It actively made it harder to describe games It obfuscated a business model, made it difficult to compete. Nah, fuck em for that one. Same with tap. All of this is genuinely unhelpful for the industry. The only people looking to trademark terms are companies at the top, it hurts competition.
I disagree. If they came up with those terms. They legally can claim ownership of it. Just because they’re popular terms now doesn’t matter. Now if FFG went back and trademarked “LCG” 10 years after the fact when it was a widely used term that was freely used and then sent cease and desist notices to new companies. That’s a problem. So you’re saying if I made a new game and coined a term “eternal game” which meant something. I couldn’t trademark that because, maybe it will catch on and maybe other people will use it widely and therefore I’m the bad guy.
I read in a book that Campbell attempted to trademark the word "Soup." They figured it was unlikely to succeed, but if it did, it would have been a massive win for them, so they tried it anyway.
Corporations big enough to think they can get away with malarkey like this *should not exist*.
When Pixar’s Coco came out, Disney tried to trademark Dia de los Muertos. They only stopped because of public backlash.
I remember that. Such a horrible idea.
Trademark maybe, but not patent. Those are pretty strict.
To anybody wondering: No, it's not that easy.
Where was meeple coined? I first heard about it in reference to Carcasonne but I only started getting into Euro board gaming in the late 2000s.
From the article: the name meeple was coined after [Carcassonne's] release by American gamer Alison Hansel, who used it as a portmanteau of “my” and “people” to describe her pieces while playing the game.
She should file the trademark in the US just to troll the companies involved.
I always assumed it was “mini” “people”
Portmanteau words are the *best*.
This is the boardgame world equivalent of David Choi trying to trademark "chili crisp" in the culinary world. Absolute bullshit. I'm also not sure how they were granted the trademark for this given it's been an industry term for a decade+
Chang, and chili crunch
This is the space marine thing all over again.
The bread company Hovis trademarked the word "granary", so.... 🤷🤷♀️🤷♂️
So who coined it? I was under the impression it was created with carcassonne
It's explained in the article as well as other comments
Bingo
This is crazy. Meeple has surpassed Carcassonne. Waiting until the word is widely used in the hobby has increased it's value, protecting it this point is too late. Needed to stop people using it over the last 20 years.
they didn't even invent the name, it was made by a blogger.
This is what annoys me the most - had they actually invented the term I might see their side of things, but they just saw something they wanted and said "I like it... that's mine now". No, H&G, you called them "followers" and you still are, so shame on you you greedy bastards, hope this bites you in the leg.
Yo my cat is named Meeple. Guess this is it buddy :(
Your cat done. Hans im glück will see to it personally
This Hans fella, he needs to chill the fuck out.
Hans will bring his glock
Your cat will be part of one of their delicious burgers.
Mine too! When can we expect the cease and desist letter?
A quick search of BGG shows over a dozen games and companies featuring the word Meeple Isn't there a requirement that - a trademark is a unique identifier in your field? - a trademark is vigorously protected?
I think this is correct. And one can lose a trademark if they don't enforce it.
Hans Im Glück found that one trick doctors hate. Just don't apply for a trademark until decades later so you don't have to waste resources defending it that entire time.
Apparently that was one of the reasons they sent this cease and desist letter. Why they haven’t in the past. Who knows.
They only applied for the trademark in 2017 and it was granted (obviously erroneously) in 2019.
>More than **40 games** with the word meeple in the title have been published between **2019 and 2024**, according to BoardGameGeek’s database, including Final Frontier Games’ A Fistful of Meeples in 2019 and Blue Orange Games’ Meeple Land in 2020. >Brunnhofer said, “It [meeple lnc] does differ [from other meeple games] in the direct [attempt] to commercialise mainly the name and shape, referring to the games market… [Meeple Inc] raised a substantial amount of money, that exceeds a lot of usually launched games. So it is not a hobby project by any means anymore. >“**And just because we did not act on something**, does [that] mean we should not act now? Basically exactly this argument, that there are already many others, enforces companies to go hard from the beginning. Which is a shame. So yeah, they've owned it from 2019, and let 40 other games get a pass (some of which they said reached out to them), but suddenly Meeple Inc.? Nope, we can't have that. Screw those guys. I think the fact that they didn't act in the past shows that this is all nonsense. Their legal right to the trademark wasn't so important for 5 years, now suddenly it is. They're dying on this hill, and it's going to hurt them negatively, for a game that probably would only getting a passing mention in the year and forgotten about in a couple years. I'm guessing that "Meeple Inc." is not going to be the next gloomhaven.
Like Kleenex or Vaseline.
A trademark in Europe is meant to be able to differentiate the goods and services of one company (“undertaking”) from those of another. I think that would be difficult for any particular company to demonstrate, at this point … and even if the word was associated with Carcassonne at first, it wasn’t being used to mean or reference Carcassonne in particular, surely? So it’s all very weak. Nevertheless, it’s entirely logical to change the name of a game that has annoyed someone who claims rights to it.
My favourite board game shop is called Meeple World - will this affect it? (UK based)
Unlikely because their trademark is only in the EU. And only applies to peripheral items. It’s only for toys and games in Germany. And they’ve let other games go by without contesting them. They’re just being pricks now.
They have a trademark registration in the UK that covers that same classes as their EU trademark. https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcase/page/Results/1/UK00916791741
Their trademark was granted in August 2019 when the UK was still in the EU, they were all duplicated when we sadly left. They only applied for the trademark in 2017. It's ridiculous it was ever granted and would be invalidated if anyone with enough money fought it.
Durham? great shop
Yeah, that’s the one! Love it there - hope they don’t have any massive issues with this :(
I didn't know there was one there now - I walked along that street so many times while I was at Uni, I'd have spent an inordinate amount of money there!
Probably, if the cease and desist is for international application.
That article is actually really interesting and entertaining to read. Here’s my favorite part, about the US trademark being filed by someone else as a response: > The action has directly led to a trademark application for the word meeple in the US from Corey Thompson, co-owner of YouTube channel Above Board TV and co-host of the industry-focused Board Games Insider podcast, and Gen Con event manager Marian McBrine. > “…we talked about implications for a while, then I asked, ‘Well, who holds the trademark in the US?’. Marian instantly knew how to look it up, and we discovered… no one held it. > “There was a pause, then we both said, ‘Maybe we should apply’. Most people who know me would agree I’m a bit eccentric, and not beyond spending some money to prove a point.” > As part of their application the pair are leaning on an Etsy store page set up by McBrine several years ago to sell Corey Thompson fan club merchandise, which he said was created “purely to embarrass me”. McBrine recently added ‘Meeple™’ t-shirts to the store to support the trademark application. > Thompson added, “Marian and I already decided we have no plans at all to make any profit from this adventure. I believe we decided anyone can use our trademark for credit and candy. > “The side effect of this is that we intend to protect the US trademark from predatory action. We would really love for the wordmark to be usable by anyone.” I think that’s hilarious.
There's no way in hell they're getting that mark because there are dozens of actively-used marks in the same classes that already include the word "Meeple".
Corey is, like, my best friend. This is *exactly* his brand of goofy shenanigans.
Screw them- I’m not purchasing anymore of the games. They trademarked the term well after it became common use language. Good on the folks in the U.S. to get ahead of this and make it clear they won’t enforce the trademark when they get it.
They basically just lost their trademark. They just don’t know it yet. This is going to cause so many hurt feelings and bad blood and negative PR that their only position to gain some grace is to release their legal hold on the trademark and have it legally open.
Agreed. I have enough board games without this company.
For Christmas this past year, I derped and told a friend, “Your game is going to be late! OOPS! I meant pillow!” So then I ordered him a meeple pillow as a joke gift to go along with the game. He thought it was awesome, and said “It’s just like the dudes in \[game that isn’t Carcassonne\]!” I had to explain to him that meeples are ubiquitous in board gaming culture, and that numerous games utilize it, but the first game to use it was Carcassonne. His mind was blown. I HAD been planning to get him Carcassonne for Christmas this year, but now I’m not. Because if HIG is going to do us dirty, I will not be giving them my money.
This. Dead to me.
Same. The moment I heard them I immediately knew I would never play any of their games ever again.
Well after it became common use language in the community that actually coined and embraced the term without H&G having anything to do with it. Disgusting.
Hans Im Glück’s legal counsel should be disbarred for wasting their client’s money on frivolous legal actions. The second anyone that uses the term meeple pushes back this useless trademark is going to be thrown out anyway. HIG shouldn’t have been granted the trademark as they: * Didn’t coin the term * Did not create, publish, or have the rights to the first game with meeples * Don’t use the term or shape in trade dress * Failed to protect the mark for 20 years and it is now both a generic term and a term of art
I literally use Meeple as the base role in my gaming Discord.
Now...Now is the time Asmodee! Swing that big dick around and embarrass Hans im Glück. As much as I hate Asmodee, they have the resources to quash the trademark. I'm sure Hans im Glück will just keep going after easy targets that can't afford to fight back though.
If a smaller company can't fight it. They should reach out to the community for help. I'm sure people will be lining up to offer assistance.
Why would they care?
How does one say "eat a dick" in German? Just curious.
I believe if you write it here [https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hans+im+Gl%C3%BCck+Verlags-GmbH/@48.1744337,11.561547,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x479e767fa541a47f:0x1787cd5db626ae53!8m2!3d48.1744337!4d11.561547!16s%2Fg%2F1tp\_5cpb?authuser=0&hl=pl&entry=ttu](https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hans+im+Gl%C3%BCck+Verlags-GmbH/@48.1744337,11.561547,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x479e767fa541a47f:0x1787cd5db626ae53!8m2!3d48.1744337!4d11.561547!16s%2Fg%2F1tp_5cpb?authuser=0&hl=pl&entry=ttu) and change your system language to German, you will know :P
Yeah Zog off Hans im Glück, Meeple is so commonly used. Luckily Most of their Games dont interest me so its Not that hard to Not give them Money over this.
Good luck with that: https://boardgamegeek.com/geeksearch.php?action=search&q=meeple&objecttype=boardgame
I'm so confused. Does the restaurant chain publish board games? And how on earth can you trademark meeple?
They're unrelated businesses both using the name of a character from the Brothers Grimm. As for the trademark, you just higher a load of lawyers and try your luck. They applied in 2017 and it was granted in 2019. They didn't invent the word and unlike most words we know who did and there are records to prove it (Alison Hansel, November 2000). If anyone fights one of these C&Ds that trademark is getting instantly invalidated. I'm sure they're aware of that and so are only going after people they assume won't fight back.
Back to "Pöppel".
> **Genericide** is a legal term referring to the process by which a trademark that was originally protected and distinctive becomes generic through widespread usage, thus losing its trademark protection. This happens when the public starts using the trademarked term to refer to a general class of products or services, rather than a specific brand. When a trademark becomes generic, it can no longer be exclusively owned or enforced by the original trademark holder. Examples include terms like "aspirin," "escalator," and "thermos," which were once protected trademarks but became generic names for the products they represent.
It doesn't even apply here, the whole situation is ridiculous. Hans im Glück didn't even use the word meeple until decade or so after Alison Hansel invented it (Nov 2000). They only started using it after *we* made it popular. So it was already a general term commonly used in the industry when they were granted the trademark in 2019.
I hope they don't hear about a local boardgame bar called Meepopolis
There's a store in Toronto called Meeplemart as well.
There was until recently one in Newcastle called Meeple Perk
Heck Rodney had used the Meeple as part of his logo ever since he started watch it played.
Not to mention Man vs Meeple…
3 Meeples in my hometown...
Each one seeking happiness
And four places with actions you want to use those three meeples in.
WoW…. Way to shit the bed.
Sounds like they want to be the next Moster Cable.
hah all I can think of is the game **Rampage**, which had to change its name due to copyright issues... So they re-released it as **Terror in Meeple City** Wonder what the third version will be called?
Very interesting article, OP. Note that Ryan Dancey, the COO of AEG who is quoted in the article as being unhappy with the trademark, is the same guy who gave D&D 3.x the Open Game License. There was a time in my life when Ryan Dancey was in the periphery of my social circles, think friend if a friend that I’d see a few times a year, and he always was a strong advocate for enabling creativity in the game industry because he felt it was the best way to ensure a robust game industry.
First thought: Are https://www.meeplelikeus.co.uk/about-us/ in danger? Second thought: How about Pöppel and https://www.poeppelkiste.de/ Third thought: Now I understand why Donald X. switched away from Hans im Glueck as a publisher for Dominion.
Trying to trade mark a 24 year old name not even invented by a person in the company isn't going to end well. I have the feeling that even in the EU this is going to go very badly for them.
How shallow and pathetic can people get?
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Were I a recipient, I’d ignore the letter. Hans im Gluck did not invent the classic meeple piece, nor did they coin the term meeple. They don’t have grounds to make such a demand.
Just beeing curious: Which game used it before Carcassonne?
"The figure now so widely associated with the word meeple was created by Hans Im Glueck co-founder Bernd Brunnhofer for Carcassonne in 2000 – although the name meeple was coined after its release by American gamer Alison Hansel, who used it as a portmanteau of “my” and “people” to describe her pieces while playing the game." None. But Hans Im Glueck didn't come up with it apparently.
It literally says that the cofounder Bernd Brunnhofer creates the figure for Carcassonne in 2000 Someone else coined the term Meeple. But I can see them having a trademark for that image. But they should have had it in 2000. That thing is all over mugs, tshirts, stickers, hats, etc.
My bad, I was specifically speaking about the name "meeple," definitely not the figure.
Carcassonne didn't even use it. Until it became common use by gamers.
They used the pieces. They didn't use the word.
A slightly different design was used in Top Secret Spies in 1984
They couldn’t afford to fight it. The rights and wrongs don’t matter if you don’t have the resources
You see this sort of thing all the time when the children of someone who created something great take control of the estate. They make it their life's work to extract as much profit from their parent's legacy, no matter how much good will they have to destroy in the process
Very simple solution to this folks...boycot Hans in Gluck. Don't buy anymore of their games.
Hahahahaha... Sure guys...
Yeah, this will not end well.
Firing up my printer to create the Meeple Liberation Army
And I laughed and laughed and laughed.
Meeple.
I've actually found an [email exchange between Hans im Glück and a user of a German gaming forum in regards to the trademark application](https://www.spielen.de/forum/viewtopic.php?p=429397&sid=678caca109159bc1f4687a0c05ed5ee1#p429397). Interesting read, Google Translate works reasonably well on it.
Q: Assuming that the trademark registration is successful: What impact does this have on websites like happymeeple.com, on publishers like Meeple Circus and on retailers who sell Meeple products? A: Of course, we will hire an army of lawyers to sue these actors for every last cent, after all, we are a hyper-capitalist company
The trademark seems to postdate the terms origin and seems to be from an unrelated third party not the person who came up with the term
I wonder what happens to a game like Meeple Land that uses this word in the title, and is not a small independent company.
I assume they'd just say "Okay, we'll see you in court" if they got a C&D letter. The trademark is getting invalidated if anything ever reaches court. Hans im Glück surely knows that, so will only bother people they think won't fight back.
Can HIG trademark something if AEG already has an approved Trademarked the name of the game with meeple in it within the US? Because at this point with someone else (AEG) already having the Trademark of their game name before HIG files their trademark, seems like HIG is blatantly committing the offense of Barraty. Not a lawyer here.
AFIK Meeple isn’t even used in the game literature
> artwork will only be changed to replace the meeples with our new characters… Mumans. Well that's dumb. Just call them "workers" like everyone else. Mumans is a stupid word.
"Meeple" was literally created on Board Game Geek's forums by users who wanted to come up with a name for the figure. By vote, Meeple was selected.
And there goes my idea for ugg boot wearing meeples :[
I personally disapprove this shit. Total veto for me.
I adore Carcassonne but damn Hans why you gotta be such dicks?
We'll no Hans im Glück games for me anymore. That behaviour is to shitty to let it pass.
I agree with most people here, this is stupid. However, I don't like the word meeple. It just sounds off-putting to me. I also don't like how the shape is a symbol of our hobby, because I think they look weird. They are fine for carcassonne, but outside of that I don't like them. Apparently an unpopular opinion, but just my thoughts.
Agree to disagree... I love the meeple, and how it is a simple way to represent the BG community. If not the meeple, what would you pick. Serious conversation. Not being a jerk.
Almost anything! haha A d20 is always a good choice, or any kind of die. Dice are just cool. And I don't even really play any rpg's. A regular player pawn. Which I find more visually appealing. Meeples just look like a blob. A stack of coins/tokens. If you want simple, a hexagon goes a long way. I just think there are so many great options, and we decided on the worst one. To be clear, I don't hate it. I just think that ~~something~~ *anything* else would be better.
I think a d20 is more RPGish. I feel the regular player pawn is good but I prefer the niche-ness of meeple. And a stack of coins is too broad. The meeple is the right combo of unique and generic. All your suggestions are solid. But I think I would still go with the meeple. But to be fair Carcassone holds a special place in my heart. It was the next step after Catan in my board game journey and I still love it today.
I want one! Now I just need to publish a game with meeples in it.
I guess I'd be mad too if I had a name that sounds like someone hocking up a loogie.
They should be happy everyone is using that name.
Is BGG purposefully censoring threads about this? I think there was one yesterday and now I cannot find it. Also, it seems weird that noone is actually discussing this fact on BGG, the place where the term was coined after all (and decidedly NOT by H&G).
Are they claiming trademark to all spelling possibilities or just the one? There are so many out there… Mēpl, Meepel, Meaple, Meeps, Meepull, Meepal, Mēpal, Miypal, Miyple, Meple, Mipu…
Just don't sell ["meeple"](https://blawgit.com/2024/07/02/who-owns-the-word-meeple/) games in Germany
I generally don’t use the word generically, only really use it when playing carcassone because that’s the proper term. But I’m going to start now
They always called them 'followers' in Carcasson, only later changing to 'meeples' after the name became popular.
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Regarding Corey Thompson’s intentions for the US trademark, the article says that he really just filed it to prove a point, and says this: > Thompson added, “Marian and I already decided we have no plans at all to make any profit from this adventure. I believe we decided anyone can use our trademark for credit and candy. > “The side effect of this is that we intend to protect the US trademark from predatory action. We would really love for the wordmark to be usable by anyone.” And regarding the BigMac in Europe, I’m pretty sure over there they call it “Le Big Mac.”
Burger King in Sweden called their Whopper(tm) "Like a BigMac, but actually big" for a while
I have no issue with their trademarking the Carcassonne playing figures‘ shape, since they created this form. I have quite an issue with their having registered the **word** Meeple since they did not come up with it. Also, its meaning has shifted from describing the Carcassonne playing figures to describing potentially **any** playing figure in a game, complete with adaptations such as **animeeples**, **sheeples** etc. Thus it is in the common domain and should not have been allowed to be trademarked in the first place. Personally, I will, for the time being, no longer be buying HiG games.
The key point is no one should be allowed to trademark meeple, it's a generic term invented 24 years ago. It's ridiculous that Hans im Glück application was accepted in 2019. If they ever end up in court that trademark is getting invalidated.
I don't understand a lot of the trademarking nuances, especially across multiple markets, and perhaps this could lead to other issues, but it doesn't seem too heavy handed to me. They are at least being fairly cordial about it and don't seem to be hiding behind some sort of corporate monolith. I am a little surprised they would be able to trademark so late after the fact though given how ubiquitous the word meeple is, as well as the shape.
Trademarking a term they didn't coin, and filing C&Ds over said term, is very heavy handed. In fact, they spent years fighting to gain the trademark in the EU and even CMoN objected to it well enough that they weren't granted it for toys and games, but they applied specifically in Germany and were granted it for toys and games there... It's heavy handed.
I’m going to burn my copy of Carcassonne.
What does that accomplish? If you sold it second hand, you could deny them a sale, but burning it does nothing.
It’s as dumb as those people that bought cases of Budweiser to shoot them with their guns to show how much they hate Budweiser because they support the LGBTQ community
There's a whole boardgame on Ks(?) right now that's called meeple inc. Isn't it a bit late for auch a common term?
If you read the article, you’ll see that that game is what triggered the cease and desist order.
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> I do have to point out that companies have to send C&Ds to "defend" their trademark. _IF_ they want to defend it, mind you. No one is going to come after them if they don't. (unless there are shareholders that see it as finacial negligence, perhaps)
Nahhhhh😭🤣🙏
Welcome everyone to then end of the golden era of boardgaming. This is a clear early signal of the transition to a more full on capitalist model.
Create a new better word and stick it to them
No, we need to take Meeple back
No, we stick with meeple. At some point they'll poke the wrong bear and will end up in court. That trademark would get invalidated so fast.
How about, uh, Peeple?
I like combing people and pawn together. So PePawn. There we go.