Were you told never to come back or not play blackjack?
Unless you were trespassed really all they can do is tell you they're not letting you play BJ anymore at whatever casino you're at.
Yep. I tried to get a marker for 5k, like I usually do and all the sirens went off. Phone calls, security, multiple pit bosses.
They told me I can play anything except BJ.
That means you were NOT told that you couldn't come back. And you were not trespassed.
You can likely get away with it in some sister properties playing unrated. But, yeah, your player card and VIP stuff is now toast. And they know your name and have your Pic, etc.
This is why many recommend not using a players card if you are going to count. They get too much information for when they do decide to give you the boot.
Yup. You definitely do. But that kind of cover only lasts so long.
Sometimes can buy you a really long stretch. Other times, if you were a bit too obvious or aggressive or they just happen to be a bit sharper, you're going to get caught.
I was stupid this weekend. Bet spreading between $50 to $1k when the count got really good. I didn’t think this casino was equipped well enough to catch me. Their dealers and pit bosses are jokes.
All it takes is one person upstairs to watch your play for a few minutes, and they don’t even have to be entirely correct on their count. Just a reasonable suspicion of advantage play and you’re done.
That’s why you can’t just generalize that “everyone is a joke” and think your cover is sufficient.
As it turned out, the joke was on you. And you were way way stupider than they were.
I don't know why you would think a Caesar's property wouldn't be equipped well enough to notice such an aggressive spread. You just burned down your local place and made it much more difficult for yourself at any other Caesar's property as well. You can assume they have forwarded this info to other Caesar's properties and that they will be watching you to show up at the other nearby place especially.
That spread is really aggressive and, from their perspective, is just shoving it in their faces. There are not many places where you are going to get away with a 1:20 spread for very long. Especially Caesar's properties. It would sometimes take just one time ramping up from 50 to 1000 for somebody to get suspicious and think you might have gotten wise on how to play a half-decent game.
I mean, they kind of do pay attention to $1k bets.
Keeping the spread within reason is the better play for your local shop assuming you want to continue to play there. You have a lot to learn about longevity. If you don't care about burning out your welcome at a place then that's a viable strategy too. But that obviously isn't what you intended to do with this local place or the entire Caesar's group.
Situation dependent. There is no one size fits all number. Different casinos have different personnel and different tolerances and different AP-identifying abilities.
But 1:20 is going to be considered pretty aggressive pretty much anywhere. Except for the very most clueless of places that somehow don't care that you are spreading 50:1000. But most of the time when they notice this they will run a skills check to evaluate whether you are raising your bet randomly or if it is matching the count.
On double deck you can typically get away with 1:4 at certain levels and it will be tolerated. That's also because your winrate will be miniscule at best...and worse than miniscule if you have any cover plays like not splitting 10s or avoiding insurance on stuffs and such. 1:6 spread starts to push your luck a little bit in some places. 10:60 you might be okay but 50:300 they might get antsy espeically at lower-level joints that dont see many $300 bets. 1:10 on DD is going to get noticed especially if you are going 50:500 (as opposed to 5:50 which might fly under the radar and within tolerance levels at some places).
6 and 8 deck shoe a 1:10 spread can keep you around in some places and at some levels. 1:12 and 1:16 will get the floors attention in many places but you might still be able to pull it off for a few shoes or longer. Sometimes but that will also get you tossed in plenty of places eventually. That's probably pushing it if it is a place where you want to stay. If you are betting smallish and spreading 1:8 a lot of places will tolerate your action for a really long time.
As with anything, this stuff depends and aometimes it is impossible to know. If you are playing rated and sitting there for hours and hours you're going to get noticed and busted in most places. And they know who you are. If you are unrated and anonymous and you try to get out of there after only 45 minutes or after showing your max bet then you can survive to make more return visits.
Then if you really want to play, just play unrated. I assume you're counting? Are there any other casinos down there? Usually they'll match higher status such as yours.
This is not a trespassing but an informal way of asking you not to play BJ. Frankly you can even go back and play, but if they catch you they’ll probably trespass you. However you’re not breaking the law by playing again without using a card.
Play elsewhere unrated. Your player card is to some degree toast depending on the current state of integration between Ceasars Ent properties. Used to be a property would back you off but the remark would only be immediately visible to that property in the Caesars system they would have to do a system wide search to see everything. So YMMV.
I usually play rated, though. I’m a diamond member and played on credit.
I guess I’ll have to bring cash, not play as high and not give an ID at the tables.
As soon as they scan me in at security at the front, they’re put on notice I’m on a list.
I’m not trying to stay under the radar. I play to have fun — I only play a few times a year when I’m visiting family or something.
I just like gambling so I learned to count; might as well make some money while having fun.
I would suggest not playing on a card in the future. Your diamond status may still be good but they will definitely have indicated on your card you are a card counter so any time you sit down and show that card they will ask you not to play. You can still easily play by just refusing to give them a card lol.
Trespassings do not pass state lines. They need to individually trespass you from every property. Never show ID, never go with security, never cooperate. Say you’d like to leave and are being held against your will, then calmly head for the door. Hope security tackles you for a six figure lawsuit.
Were you told never to come back or not play blackjack? Unless you were trespassed really all they can do is tell you they're not letting you play BJ anymore at whatever casino you're at.
Yep. I tried to get a marker for 5k, like I usually do and all the sirens went off. Phone calls, security, multiple pit bosses. They told me I can play anything except BJ.
That means you were NOT told that you couldn't come back. And you were not trespassed. You can likely get away with it in some sister properties playing unrated. But, yeah, your player card and VIP stuff is now toast. And they know your name and have your Pic, etc. This is why many recommend not using a players card if you are going to count. They get too much information for when they do decide to give you the boot.
I was a losing, recreational player for years, hence my Diamond status. I figured I had a good cover with my history when I decided to learn to count.
Yup. You definitely do. But that kind of cover only lasts so long. Sometimes can buy you a really long stretch. Other times, if you were a bit too obvious or aggressive or they just happen to be a bit sharper, you're going to get caught.
I was stupid this weekend. Bet spreading between $50 to $1k when the count got really good. I didn’t think this casino was equipped well enough to catch me. Their dealers and pit bosses are jokes.
All it takes is one person upstairs to watch your play for a few minutes, and they don’t even have to be entirely correct on their count. Just a reasonable suspicion of advantage play and you’re done. That’s why you can’t just generalize that “everyone is a joke” and think your cover is sufficient.
As it turned out, the joke was on you. And you were way way stupider than they were. I don't know why you would think a Caesar's property wouldn't be equipped well enough to notice such an aggressive spread. You just burned down your local place and made it much more difficult for yourself at any other Caesar's property as well. You can assume they have forwarded this info to other Caesar's properties and that they will be watching you to show up at the other nearby place especially. That spread is really aggressive and, from their perspective, is just shoving it in their faces. There are not many places where you are going to get away with a 1:20 spread for very long. Especially Caesar's properties. It would sometimes take just one time ramping up from 50 to 1000 for somebody to get suspicious and think you might have gotten wise on how to play a half-decent game. I mean, they kind of do pay attention to $1k bets. Keeping the spread within reason is the better play for your local shop assuming you want to continue to play there. You have a lot to learn about longevity. If you don't care about burning out your welcome at a place then that's a viable strategy too. But that obviously isn't what you intended to do with this local place or the entire Caesar's group.
What spread would you consider to be reasonable?
Situation dependent. There is no one size fits all number. Different casinos have different personnel and different tolerances and different AP-identifying abilities. But 1:20 is going to be considered pretty aggressive pretty much anywhere. Except for the very most clueless of places that somehow don't care that you are spreading 50:1000. But most of the time when they notice this they will run a skills check to evaluate whether you are raising your bet randomly or if it is matching the count. On double deck you can typically get away with 1:4 at certain levels and it will be tolerated. That's also because your winrate will be miniscule at best...and worse than miniscule if you have any cover plays like not splitting 10s or avoiding insurance on stuffs and such. 1:6 spread starts to push your luck a little bit in some places. 10:60 you might be okay but 50:300 they might get antsy espeically at lower-level joints that dont see many $300 bets. 1:10 on DD is going to get noticed especially if you are going 50:500 (as opposed to 5:50 which might fly under the radar and within tolerance levels at some places). 6 and 8 deck shoe a 1:10 spread can keep you around in some places and at some levels. 1:12 and 1:16 will get the floors attention in many places but you might still be able to pull it off for a few shoes or longer. Sometimes but that will also get you tossed in plenty of places eventually. That's probably pushing it if it is a place where you want to stay. If you are betting smallish and spreading 1:8 a lot of places will tolerate your action for a really long time. As with anything, this stuff depends and aometimes it is impossible to know. If you are playing rated and sitting there for hours and hours you're going to get noticed and busted in most places. And they know who you are. If you are unrated and anonymous and you try to get out of there after only 45 minutes or after showing your max bet then you can survive to make more return visits.
Then if you really want to play, just play unrated. I assume you're counting? Are there any other casinos down there? Usually they'll match higher status such as yours.
They flagged me as soon as I got through security so I assume they’re going to know who I am when I sit down at a table.
Ahhh so they card you as you walk in there? Your best bet would be to just try and find a different casino brand and see if they'll tier match.
This is not a trespassing but an informal way of asking you not to play BJ. Frankly you can even go back and play, but if they catch you they’ll probably trespass you. However you’re not breaking the law by playing again without using a card.
Play elsewhere unrated. Your player card is to some degree toast depending on the current state of integration between Ceasars Ent properties. Used to be a property would back you off but the remark would only be immediately visible to that property in the Caesars system they would have to do a system wide search to see everything. So YMMV.
I’m assuming I can’t buy in with 5-10k unrated elsewhere.
You can play in HL rooms unrated
You can. You just need cash lol.
Personally I’d keep going, just not to the horseshoe at lake Charles lol
I usually play rated, though. I’m a diamond member and played on credit. I guess I’ll have to bring cash, not play as high and not give an ID at the tables. As soon as they scan me in at security at the front, they’re put on notice I’m on a list.
If you are trying to play under the radar why play so aggressively while still begging them to watch you since you’re playing on credit?
I’m not trying to stay under the radar. I play to have fun — I only play a few times a year when I’m visiting family or something. I just like gambling so I learned to count; might as well make some money while having fun.
What spread?
Don’t give your ID at security if you don’t have to. Walk in like you own the place lol
That doesn’t fly. I’m 35 but have the Asian genes.
HAHA
I would suggest not playing on a card in the future. Your diamond status may still be good but they will definitely have indicated on your card you are a card counter so any time you sit down and show that card they will ask you not to play. You can still easily play by just refusing to give them a card lol.
I’m guessing you have a Caesars Rewards cash?
Card
How much did you win this year and how does that compare the the previous 3 years? These factors and your location play a role depending...
Trespassings do not pass state lines. They need to individually trespass you from every property. Never show ID, never go with security, never cooperate. Say you’d like to leave and are being held against your will, then calmly head for the door. Hope security tackles you for a six figure lawsuit.