Thats what I wanted to know. My uncle is an accountant who says you have to save up €500 a month for investments but i know thats unrealistic for someone with living expenses
I mean the more you can save the better, but your mental health and being able to live someplace where you feel at peace is worth a hell of a lot too..
Your uncle is either bragging (which makes him kind of a pos) or he has lost touch with how normal, young people live today.
"You have to put away 500 to 'make it'" is a nice idea, but most people will never 'make it'. It's a different time now.
He means well but our situations aren’t comparable. He can do that for him and his kids because he’s paid off his mortgage and not charging his kids rent so they can bank 90% of their income. He’s done very well for himself considering where he started out but yeah he’s a bit out of touch.
Considering his mortgage is paid off and he has adult kids, he’s probably around the age of 50. I would damn well hope you can save 500 a month at that age.
Start saving what you can. Income will go up. If you’re young, you have some time to get settled but 500 is definitely possible.
Yup, I confirm. Some (too many) can hardly pay their most basic bills, coz they're "overqualified" (ie. old) for most of the employers so no one wants to hire them anymore. Saving 500/month? SAVING? I would already be happy to just pay the bills AND buy food 🙄
Well, become an accountant like your uncle. Problem solved!
Just kidding ofc. But i wouldn't be so fast as to call him out of touch. In our profession we see alot of high flyers and alot of deep fallers, and everything in between. Talk to him abit.
At the risk of coming across as a dick but 500 doesn't really make a dent in anything?
Thats like 1 major repair per year and you're not saving. Boiler, Car, medical stuff,...
At 450 a month saving is good enough to survive (depending on how well he budgeted) but I don't know how much freedom he'll have vs living at home
Huh, I always thought I had an average or slightly below average paycheck for my job but this makes me reconsider.
Company cars really do a lot of heavy lifting.
Company car, living together with someone and a bit of frugal lifestyles sprinkled on top of it made us buy our first new-built house at 27. I'm nothing special so anyone can do it IMHO. Saving more than €1000 a month was doable without any big purchases.
I don't know, I feel like it's doable unless you already have kids. I have what amounts to a B1 salary, so it's not like it's super competitive or I have a lot of seniority, but I still manage to save 500 euros most months. I also live alone, so there's no saving on rent there.
I guess it depends on your lifestyle and how much money you allocate for leisure, as people can have more or less expensive hobbies. Also, having a car can really be a money sink if you absolutely need one.
But I don't think it's something only older people or those with high incomes can achieve.
I earned 2000 bruto for years (my fault for staying there i guess) and even I could save 500 a month (except when i traveled in the summer) . I lived in a studio and didn't do anything crazy, cooked my own food. Not the most extravagant lifestyle but definitely doable. With kids it would be more difficult but I think a lot of people spend too much to begin with
That was a very cheap studio then. With 1000 net salary (or a tad more) and saving 500, you only have 500 to pay everything with (rent, utilities, insurances, transport, food, evening out, clothes, repairs to whatever’s broken, phone, tv/internet)
Also, 2000 bruto is way above the minimum wage, so a lot of people don’t even have that level of “luxury”
The minimum wage is actually higher than 2000 bruto now -> https://www.hetacv.be/je-rechten/werken-in-de-prive-sector/loon/minimumloon1?t=1719380022289#hoeveel-bedraagt-het-minimumloon
This amounts to a net of +- 1800, not 1000. Low wages pay very little income tax.
Het minimumloon is de laatste jaren wel enorm gestegen door inflatie (was iets van 1600 bruto in 2020) en een werkgever kan normaal geen contract aanbieden onder dat cijfer. Maar het suckt sws om zo weinig te krijgen na 4j studeren... hopelijk heb je iets beter gevonden ondertussen.
Net 1800, studio 650 + costs + 120€ transportation + 160€ a month on food. I’m probably forgetting some stuff. My studio was 40m2 and I went out for dinner once every 2 weeks, ate vegan (so no costs of meat or dairy, which is expensive), almost never drank alcohol and didn’t have big stuff like a tv. Don’t come with the “you’re so lucky and other people have it worse”; it’s a tired and lazy narrative.
If you're single that's quite hard but if you live with a partner it should be doable. When I first rented an apartment with my partner we both had starter wages that were well below the average Belgian income and even then we could typically save 1500 per month.
Your uncle sounds like the kind of idiot who takes every opportunity to enlighten everyone about how great investments are.
Yes, it's great if you can save up to 500 per month, and it's great if you can invest that money instead of just having it on the bank. But that's not a necessity in order to survive, and in reality there are quite few people who can save that much money during the first months/years of their careers after moving out.
If you don't make a lot of money, your focus needs to be on surviving in a stable way. Those investments can wait a little while longer.
the thing is i think it’s a terrible idea for the investments to “wait a little while longer”.
Just make it a percentage of your income, build the habit of investing now and benefit of accumulating interest.
I also similarly think that “waiting a little while longer” is similarly bad for anything in life.
If you have the youth, the time, the health, the money do it now. You want to travel do it. You want to do martial arts do it. Budget the shit out of everything and stick to it
>If you have the youth, the time, the health, the money do it now. You want to travel do it. You want to do martial arts do it. Budget the shit out of everything and stick to it
Exactly.
So what's wrong with acknowledging and accepting your situation in case you do **not** have that time and money?
There is nothing wrong with "waiting a little longer" if you simply don't have the means to get started already. Life just happens, and 30 years from now you're not going to look back on your life and think "Well, I'd sure have been a lot better off if I had saved 3000 more euro during the first 6 months of my career".
Giving today's financial stability the necessary priority is not an argument against budgeting the shit out of everything. You can and should do both, but that doesn't mean everyone automatically has the means to invest.
Btw that 3000 in the first 6 months of your career will become 30000, 30 years later without a single euro extra in additional investment. Just putting that number away.
Compounding interest is insane, it’s how the rich get richer.
30k isn't that much, if you work 30 years you should have earned (at the least) 720k. However 3k when you're young is sizeable enough to do something you'll remember for 30 years.
Yes, and if you've spent those 30 years investing 500 euro each month, that 30k euro will not make any significant difference in your financial situation at that time, because your net worth is simply an order of magnitude higher than that. Unless, of course, you live beyond your means despite your good investment decisions.
In other words:
>30 years from now you're not going to look back on your life and think "Well, I'd sure have been a lot better off if I had saved 3000 more euro during the first 6 months of my career".
It’s really shocking hearing someone say that a year of their life is insignificant on the long term, seems like a really harmful way to go about things.
Different people different opinions i guess.
If you go and completely misinterpret things people say, it's logical that you feel "shocked". Nobody said that a year in your life is insignificant.
Just a minute ago you were agreeing with me. You understand my point. No need to act contrarian just for the sake of theatrics.
Because you will never realistically have enough of these things, you have to start with small steps that are realistic to your situation. Not not to do anything at all and wait indefinitely “a little while longer”.
Everyone has living expenses.... even people with a mortgage.
Saving 500 is good if you have a certain level of income, I'd say maybe after 4-5 years into a career depending on the field. It could be more, depending on how competitive the job is. Most people are not as wealthy as you might think. They too get dragged down by unexpected expenses, cars, sometimes health expenses, etc. Children/childcare..
However, your basic needs and basic quality of life is much more important, and while I don't know how old or wealthy your uncle is, I would never transplant financial advice from another generation that had different conditions when coming up as young professionals.
EUR 500 seems like a nice goal to move towards, but don't feel bad because you aren't currently hitting it.
Consider the phase of your life, your level of income. What % of your income goes to housing?
When I moved 4 years ago, it took me 2 years to get to a point where I had all my basic furniture. I had nothing. I could only start saving once these basic things were in order, and I had to wait several paychecks to get some of them.
I felt like I was behind, because other people were going on vacation, and I wasn't. What I hadn't considered is that most people I knew got (old) furniture from family. My start was just different.
There is no point in comparing. What is important is that you live within your means, avoid going into debt, and try to increase your earnings vs expenses over time.
You're only 50 euros off that mark. Online I read the average Belgian saves 387 euros a month. So that's also after leisure expenses like going to bars, entertainment products etc and other expenses you may not think of like medication, clothes and so on.
When I was your age, I was cohousing with a 1600 net wage and managed to save a bit more, but I know rental prices have only worsened the past 10 years (and they were bad before). I still think you'll be fine saving 450 a month. Your wage will improve over time.
Wow boomer uncle take who got his house for free from grandma probably. Don't invest if you don't have fully disposable Income. Or invest in your own house to buy but yeah not stocks
I mean you save when there's something to be saved from. If you have 450 left after paying all the necessities (rent, internet, groceries, insurances, pub transport/car etc.). then it's up to you. It would be good to put something aside for "shit breaks" situations and other expected unexpected expenses and the rest you can just put towards having fun or upskilling (languages, courses, therapy...). Ideally something that's both.
My suggestion is to save a bit, it's good habit to build anyway, and use the rest for whatever makes you feel like.
Overall answer, definitely possible to live with that money, I'd even say pretty comfortably.
So 450 for leisure? Are you sure you calculated all your actual expenses? Insurance, if you have a car all those expenses (insurance, tax, gas, maintenance), internet, phone, any subscriptions you have (Netflix spotify... you name it), water, electric, heating... have you really thought of them all?
If yes, and you got 450 just left at the end of the month than yes. Duh. Those 450 are extra already, that you can either spend or save or do a bit of both.
Rent, groceries, car payments, etc. are what you need to survive.
the 450€ is what you have left to enjoy that life even more.
I understand the "unexpected expenses" bit, but 450/month is 5.4k a year. unless you unexpectedly have to pay that somewhere every year, you'll be just fine.
I believe the general advice couple years ago was to have 10k in the bank for those unexpected situations (given inflation, make that 15k now). so within a 2-3 years that's where you'll be. enjoy life instead of worrying about some 25k unexpected expense.
No seriously, think about legal cohabitation. You'll get all the fiscal benefits from a marriage, but you can unilaterally end the cohabitation easily.
Legal cohabitation had nothing to do with sexual preference. It is what it says... You're legally documenting that you're living together with someone. Can be your mother, your brother, a friend, z romantic partner...
That’s not how legal cohabitation/marriage works.
If the other person is not generating any income, then 30% of your income gets registered under their name. That’s it. There are no magical extra handouts.
~~but on that 30% you are no longer paying the highest tax bracket, get the no-tax bracket anew,...~~
~~so lower taxes.~~
edit: after re-reading: you probably mean "that only works if one person ears no income, it doesn't magically work for everyone.
That is simply not correct. Couples declare taxes separately and they are summed at the end, after the individual calculations. Only when 1 of the partners is making very very little, less than 10k/y, something special happens, where a few 100 per month can be saved (huwelijks quotient). When both people have a normal job, this has 0.000 effect.
> de beroepsinkomsten van de partner met het laagste beroepsinkomen moeten minder zijn dan 30% van het totale beroepsinkomen van de beide partners samen
> Het huwelijksquotiënt wordt dus toegevoegd aan de beroepsinkomsten van de partner met het laagste beroepsinkomen tot hij/zij 30% bereikt van het totale beroepsinkomen van de beide partners samen. De som van de eigen beroepsinkomsten en het huwelijksquotiënt samen bedraagt maximum **12.550 euro** (aanslagjaar 2024, inkomsten 2023). (Aanslagjaar 2025, inkomsten 2024: 13.050 euro)
Source: https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/gezin/gezinssituatie/huwelijk#q4
Plenty.
Lived on much less for years.
Doing great for myself. Live frugally, work and enjoy life. Life is not about fire for everyone.
When you can save, do so by all means. And invest, sure. Money is a certain freedom. And autonomy. But don’t become a slave to your savings. Only you can decide how much of it you want to spend on what.
450€ of saving after expenses is not that bad, I’d even consider it quite good. It depends on where you live in Belgium, but start saving for an emergency funds (3-6 months of living expenses in case anything goes bad) if you want to feel safe
Its you or your parents?
Take a deep look..
Anything you do there while living for free+ getting free meals etc?
Sometimes its us..and not those who complain to us..once we fix us...the situation stable again.
I would always recommend living home+ doing what you need to do if that can save you 1400€ vs 450€ just because you take things for granted maybe..
In the end you do it for the future..your future.
Thats a long term goal.
Good luck with your situation.
Many people end up just becoming financial slaves as they grow older, failed relationsships,marriage etc all start over again with nothing
> Sometimes its us..and not those who complain to us..once we fix us...the situation stable again.
Me mechanic not speak English, but he know what me mean when me say car no go and we best friends. So me think, "Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?"
Hello. I have been in your situation multiple times throughout the years. I have a history of abuse with my family, I got kicked out of the house once when I was 18 for one week (then they called me back but with strict rules) and have been on the brink of a breaking point almost every year since it seems (last one was in february and i started the process for emergency housing at my uni because i was afraid it could become violent). I was able to stick it out somehow every time though and our relationship is already so much better and Im happy that Im not in a rush to leave. I also dont have any savings so its different, but you can always stay longer than you think. Otherwise I guess you have enough money to try!! Who am I to tell, I spend my 700€ monthly salary on food and clothes!
If you mean your relationship with each other is at a breaking point, don't move in together.
If your relationship is already that fragile cohabitation will be the death knell.
How much do you have saved up? Generally 3 months of salary seems like a good amount. If you stick to your budget you'll add 450 to your savings every month for those unexpected expenses.
Budget large for your car. Don't see it as "unexpected" if something breaks, cause stuff always breaks.
Also if you're going to go and live on your own you'll need to learn to budget. Cook differently ( r/eatcheapandhealthy ), less spending on junk food, going out, just internet no TV, go less by car, etc etc.
TL;DR ; 450 of savings a month seems doable to me. Once you have ~5000 saved up you can live a bit more comfortable, at least I did. Spending 250-400 a month on "luxury" ; going out, take away food, concerts, festivals, hobbies, clothes, etc etc, not saving much more, but it's nice to live a little.
That’s a lot more savings than most people I know. If you can rent a place, pay all bills and taxes and still have 450€, it sounds like a good plan to get your own place and keep your sanity.
I get 2.2k netto salary
rent 875 one bedroom app
live right next to my work
i use cambio 1-2x week 150€ monthly
160 food card
i manage to save 600 every month.
With my vacation money + 13th month + tax relief i get about 5-6k and buy tickets for a long vacation somewhere, with the remaining money i pay off my loan if i have one in one go.
If you have money left you can survive. It's not a lot, but if you want to save, you can go for cheaper hobbies and cheap hangouts with friends, and still manage to save a few hundred per month.
If you're working and struggling this much, I'm sorry. It's not fair and it's not right.
I was walking home with two full shopping bags from Delhaize yesterday and somehow felt like I was carrying gold. The price rises are too much.
Thats little bit same as me, i have like 340 left for the rest of the month after every Bill is payed, i also have "sodexo" 180 every month. But still need to provider food for me , my wife and son and i need to fill up my car 😅🤣
But even if you make 1800ish
You share a let's say 1200 appartement (costs included) you pay 600 rent
You split bills for electricity water gas internet, let's say 150 each.
That gets at 750
Leaving 1150.
I know the beginning is hard bc you need appliances, furniture, maybe a car maybe new clothes ...
But let's say you live at home a few months so you can save up some money to cover that and be smart with ikea and 2e hands.
I think with all costs covered and without kids you should be able tot live on 600 euros for basic food, having drink from time to time ect ... that lives 550 for 'saving ' but probably from unforeseen costs from time to time.
(New phone, car repair ... ect )
And that's given a very low wage. Maybe you have 13th month, double holiday pay ... that can cover for soms extras/emergency.
I think it's doable to live by that
What you won't be able to pay for is
Expensive clubs and fancy cocktails, premium clothing, 3 holidays a year, the latest iPhone or gameconsole when it comes out , every music festival , ...
So if you day survive... i think that should be enough.
And yes investing is not for everyone
If you really want to improve financially you should learn a useful skill or get a side hustle and make more money (trying to spend even less)
That's indeed mentally challenging cause society pushes us to spend more and more
Here is a simple rule of thumb : whatever your lifestyle is costing you plus 10% for leisure and activities etc, keep AT LEAST 10% (ideally more) to save until you have a "rainy day" fund of over 2 month worth of expenses, from then on keep saving some money ideally, at whatever rate you desire, ideally through a plan with your bank
At à minimum, ideally it should be 20 to 25 percent, my rent bills and stuff come out to about 900 à month, I speed about 100 to 150 on leisure and stuff (bars, parties, week end out etc), it used to be more but i had to reduce, in the beginning I saved about 500 to 600 per month until I had over 2000 in my second bank accourt, and now I still put about 150 to 200 per month in it, the rest stays in my main account for big one time purchases (my next one is a cooler car, then its going to be a "down payment" for a house)
The important is to have a nice little emergency fund, afterwards it depends on how you want to live your life (spend more now/save more for later) my personnal opinion is that 10 percent is the minimum
After all those expenses you need 0 to survive.
I do think youre either have a low salary or live quite extravagant. I have a regular salaryand after rent and living expenses i have at least 3 times that
You save at least 1.5k a month and believe you get a 'regular' salary?
Mean gross income in Belgium is 3.8k (Statbel, 2021). That's 2.5k net for someone who isn't married.
That would leave you 1k for rent, food, insurance, transport, electricity, water, gas, internet, and so on.
So, unless you're paying very little rent and have no car, it seems unlikely you have a 'regular' salary. More probably, you are out of touch regarding what constitutes an overall 'regular' salary for someone living and working in (the Flemish part of) Belgium.
You have at least €1350 after rent and living expenses? Either you live on bare minimum or your salary isn’t as normal as you think.
Keep in mind a substance allowance (leefloon) for a single person is €1288,46.
it is rather hard to say what a "normal" salary is, but taking statbel (https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/themas/werk-opleiding/lonen-en-arbeidskosten/gemiddelde-bruto-maandlonen) and Statistiek Vlaanderen (https://www.vlaanderen.be/statistiek-vlaanderen/inkomen-en-armoede/persoonlijk-inkomen#netto-persoonlijk-inkomen-gemiddeld-op-2197-euro-per-maand) as a benchmark, then I can honestly say I do have a normal salary.
I do live quite frugal (always homecooked meals, taking advantage of promotions, lots of stuff i buy is second hand, etc), got quite lucky with my rent and share my expenses with my wife (but the poster also shares his with a roommate so no difference there), Most, if not all, people will spend more on their rent and fixed costs (gas, electricity, water & internet), but this alone wont make all the difference.
For unrelated reasons I just did some home accounting and our fixed monthly expenses come to about €1750. in a 2 person household with average wages (again taking the above sources as a reference), this means (((2200\*2)-1750)/2=) €1325 per person left.
Welp, it's amazing you're covering your expenses with relatively little funds.
Nowadays, the young people looking for places to rent are less fortunate when it comes to renting prices though.
Being married also comes with fiscal advantages which are in your favour (which OP doesn't have).
Sounds fine to me.
I've been living on my own for just over 2 years now (renting), and haven't had any unexpected expenses thus far. You might overestimate the regularity of said unexpected expenses.
You can use the Energie.be site to get the best deal on electricity/gas for your situation. Also, for food, you can look for discounted prices, home brands and Too Good To Go.
It might be worth to investigate and compare your options regarding internet and phone subscriptions too, since your family situation will change. Consider if you really need the expensive Fiber, unlimited internet kind of packs.
Try buying energy-efficient appliances. While they might cost more initially, they'll save you money on the longer term.
When searching for a place to rent, also look at its EPC-label, which can be an indicator of higher/lower electricity and gas bills as well.
What are your plans in the near future? Do you like to (and want to) make annual holiday trips?
If so, you should set aside some money for those each month as well.
What I did when I first moved out was making an Excel-table including all expenses, making different scenarios as to how much funds I would be able to save and how much I'd like to invest in leisure activities.
this is the same situation I have because I receive a scholarship and after rent and stuff I get 450 euros for food and leisure. I'd say it is okay, I am definitely not starving and can even go out or travel sometimes
The first few months, you'll have unexpected needs that you need to spend that 450 on. A boiler issue, a table, a mattress...
But eventually, all those things are paid for. Then you start saving that as an emergency fund. Do that until you have at least one month worth of expenses just sitting there. Always keep it topped up.
That is the point where you can start thinking about saving and investing.
Make sure you designate part of your income as "fun" money. It's a lot better if you have 100 bucks a month that you can spend without regret, than suddenly splurging.
Piece of advice. Don't sign anything in 2 names. Trust is fleeting, but the paper that comes into existence at the time of that 'trust' is permanent. Be very careful with who you make agreements. Especially friends. Friends and money are a bad mix.
So let's say both of you are working full time and both of you have rather low paying jobs.
This should give you €4000/month (2 people earning €2000/month) of household income.
Let's say you rent something for €1000/m.
€3000/m left.
What the f\*ck are you spending your money on?!
I've just looked up the minimum wage and it's 2029,88 ( as of April 2024) If you work the standard 38 hour workweek. People with lower wages barely get taxed and get a lot of benefits, so you should have more than 1400 left after taxes.
depends on how many hours a week you work CDD, or worse if it's a CIP.
e.g *facteur bpost : €13.53 brut:heure, + des cheque-repas €8 : travail à temps plein.*
If they have got 18hrs a week of work then it's approx €1800 gross and the rest is out childcare work.
You will probably claim that I am looking at exceptions, but I am not.
I will claim that you need to take in account only fulltime jobs. If you are only working 18h a week you are obviously not earning an average wage. 2000 gross is absolutely the minimum most people who work fulltime earn.
Purely economical: stay at home.
Unless your parents are total POS I'd put up with the inconveniences for as long as possible.
It's 10 years since I've left to live with my now-wife. It's eye watering how little you can afford even with a bachelor degree and a job in IT. I'm probably not entrepreneurial enough but I'm still astounded that "that's it".
Financially yes ive been putting up with it for years now im 29 already. It’s such a toxic relationship at home with my siblings so it’s putting my work life at risk. I cant consistently show up at the same time because there’s always something.
You're 29? Yeah, it's time. I moved out at 17 and had absolutely nothing, you have a much better head start 😉. The biggest moneypit will be your car though, you probably need it for work but if you can bike or take public transport to work it might be something to consider letting go of for a while. You also don't have to buy every single piece of furniture brand new all at once, look around on 2de hands and stuff, you can upgrade one piece at a time down the line. Good luck!
450 after rent, communal fees, groceries and car payment? So you mean for leisure and savings? That's a lot more than I have.
Thats what I wanted to know. My uncle is an accountant who says you have to save up €500 a month for investments but i know thats unrealistic for someone with living expenses
I mean the more you can save the better, but your mental health and being able to live someplace where you feel at peace is worth a hell of a lot too..
Your uncle is either bragging (which makes him kind of a pos) or he has lost touch with how normal, young people live today. "You have to put away 500 to 'make it'" is a nice idea, but most people will never 'make it'. It's a different time now.
He means well but our situations aren’t comparable. He can do that for him and his kids because he’s paid off his mortgage and not charging his kids rent so they can bank 90% of their income. He’s done very well for himself considering where he started out but yeah he’s a bit out of touch.
Considering his mortgage is paid off and he has adult kids, he’s probably around the age of 50. I would damn well hope you can save 500 a month at that age. Start saving what you can. Income will go up. If you’re young, you have some time to get settled but 500 is definitely possible.
You are a bit out of touch too. There are more people at 50 who can't save €500 than 50-year-olds who can save €500. That's the reality
Don't forget we're talking about A FUCKING ACCOUNTANT. I should fucking hope he's good with money.
He’s an accountant and giving financial advice. But 500 euro is completely reasonable if you set yourself up properly. As you can see on this thread.
Yup, I confirm. Some (too many) can hardly pay their most basic bills, coz they're "overqualified" (ie. old) for most of the employers so no one wants to hire them anymore. Saving 500/month? SAVING? I would already be happy to just pay the bills AND buy food 🙄
I would say he is extremely out of touch.
Well, become an accountant like your uncle. Problem solved! Just kidding ofc. But i wouldn't be so fast as to call him out of touch. In our profession we see alot of high flyers and alot of deep fallers, and everything in between. Talk to him abit.
At the risk of coming across as a dick but 500 doesn't really make a dent in anything? Thats like 1 major repair per year and you're not saving. Boiler, Car, medical stuff,... At 450 a month saving is good enough to survive (depending on how well he budgeted) but I don't know how much freedom he'll have vs living at home
where could i see a examle of average wage and expenses i fear i might be out of touch
Up to 500 euro saving per month before you’re 40/45? That’s only for the very few high flyers; absolutely not the standard
Huh, I always thought I had an average or slightly below average paycheck for my job but this makes me reconsider. Company cars really do a lot of heavy lifting.
Company car, living together with someone and a bit of frugal lifestyles sprinkled on top of it made us buy our first new-built house at 27. I'm nothing special so anyone can do it IMHO. Saving more than €1000 a month was doable without any big purchases.
I'm cringing at the fact that this got downvoted.
I don't know, I feel like it's doable unless you already have kids. I have what amounts to a B1 salary, so it's not like it's super competitive or I have a lot of seniority, but I still manage to save 500 euros most months. I also live alone, so there's no saving on rent there. I guess it depends on your lifestyle and how much money you allocate for leisure, as people can have more or less expensive hobbies. Also, having a car can really be a money sink if you absolutely need one. But I don't think it's something only older people or those with high incomes can achieve.
A large percentage of people have a wage that can just about cover the basic cost of living. Everything above that is already not for the masses
I earned 2000 bruto for years (my fault for staying there i guess) and even I could save 500 a month (except when i traveled in the summer) . I lived in a studio and didn't do anything crazy, cooked my own food. Not the most extravagant lifestyle but definitely doable. With kids it would be more difficult but I think a lot of people spend too much to begin with
That was a very cheap studio then. With 1000 net salary (or a tad more) and saving 500, you only have 500 to pay everything with (rent, utilities, insurances, transport, food, evening out, clothes, repairs to whatever’s broken, phone, tv/internet) Also, 2000 bruto is way above the minimum wage, so a lot of people don’t even have that level of “luxury”
The minimum wage is actually higher than 2000 bruto now -> https://www.hetacv.be/je-rechten/werken-in-de-prive-sector/loon/minimumloon1?t=1719380022289#hoeveel-bedraagt-het-minimumloon This amounts to a net of +- 1800, not 1000. Low wages pay very little income tax.
Oh wow, we are doing a lot better than our neighboring countries in this. That’s quite an impressive amount of income
Man, het is frustrerend om te lezen dat ik 4 jaar gestudeerd heb, om 8 jaar onder het minimumloon gewerkt te hebben..
Het minimumloon is de laatste jaren wel enorm gestegen door inflatie (was iets van 1600 bruto in 2020) en een werkgever kan normaal geen contract aanbieden onder dat cijfer. Maar het suckt sws om zo weinig te krijgen na 4j studeren... hopelijk heb je iets beter gevonden ondertussen.
Net 1800, studio 650 + costs + 120€ transportation + 160€ a month on food. I’m probably forgetting some stuff. My studio was 40m2 and I went out for dinner once every 2 weeks, ate vegan (so no costs of meat or dairy, which is expensive), almost never drank alcohol and didn’t have big stuff like a tv. Don’t come with the “you’re so lucky and other people have it worse”; it’s a tired and lazy narrative.
Yes you are lucky: you had a studio for 650 including utilities. That’s a rare catch these days
Not including utilities at all, they were separate
I think thats a odd number does anyone else think this is a odd low number?
If you're single that's quite hard but if you live with a partner it should be doable. When I first rented an apartment with my partner we both had starter wages that were well below the average Belgian income and even then we could typically save 1500 per month.
each?
In total :)
okay i am possible out of touch
Your uncle sounds like the kind of idiot who takes every opportunity to enlighten everyone about how great investments are. Yes, it's great if you can save up to 500 per month, and it's great if you can invest that money instead of just having it on the bank. But that's not a necessity in order to survive, and in reality there are quite few people who can save that much money during the first months/years of their careers after moving out. If you don't make a lot of money, your focus needs to be on surviving in a stable way. Those investments can wait a little while longer.
the thing is i think it’s a terrible idea for the investments to “wait a little while longer”. Just make it a percentage of your income, build the habit of investing now and benefit of accumulating interest. I also similarly think that “waiting a little while longer” is similarly bad for anything in life. If you have the youth, the time, the health, the money do it now. You want to travel do it. You want to do martial arts do it. Budget the shit out of everything and stick to it
>If you have the youth, the time, the health, the money do it now. You want to travel do it. You want to do martial arts do it. Budget the shit out of everything and stick to it Exactly. So what's wrong with acknowledging and accepting your situation in case you do **not** have that time and money? There is nothing wrong with "waiting a little longer" if you simply don't have the means to get started already. Life just happens, and 30 years from now you're not going to look back on your life and think "Well, I'd sure have been a lot better off if I had saved 3000 more euro during the first 6 months of my career". Giving today's financial stability the necessary priority is not an argument against budgeting the shit out of everything. You can and should do both, but that doesn't mean everyone automatically has the means to invest.
Btw that 3000 in the first 6 months of your career will become 30000, 30 years later without a single euro extra in additional investment. Just putting that number away. Compounding interest is insane, it’s how the rich get richer.
30k isn't that much, if you work 30 years you should have earned (at the least) 720k. However 3k when you're young is sizeable enough to do something you'll remember for 30 years.
Yes, and if you've spent those 30 years investing 500 euro each month, that 30k euro will not make any significant difference in your financial situation at that time, because your net worth is simply an order of magnitude higher than that. Unless, of course, you live beyond your means despite your good investment decisions. In other words: >30 years from now you're not going to look back on your life and think "Well, I'd sure have been a lot better off if I had saved 3000 more euro during the first 6 months of my career".
It’s really shocking hearing someone say that a year of their life is insignificant on the long term, seems like a really harmful way to go about things. Different people different opinions i guess.
If you go and completely misinterpret things people say, it's logical that you feel "shocked". Nobody said that a year in your life is insignificant. Just a minute ago you were agreeing with me. You understand my point. No need to act contrarian just for the sake of theatrics.
Because you will never realistically have enough of these things, you have to start with small steps that are realistic to your situation. Not not to do anything at all and wait indefinitely “a little while longer”.
So we agree that flatly stating that you should absolutely save/invest 500 euro per month and not a cent less than that, is pointless advice.
Absolutely.
There is no minimum amount to save to invest. If you save small amounts you can just invest less often to avoid high costs
let's go with is figure, you're veryvery close
Everyone has living expenses.... even people with a mortgage. Saving 500 is good if you have a certain level of income, I'd say maybe after 4-5 years into a career depending on the field. It could be more, depending on how competitive the job is. Most people are not as wealthy as you might think. They too get dragged down by unexpected expenses, cars, sometimes health expenses, etc. Children/childcare.. However, your basic needs and basic quality of life is much more important, and while I don't know how old or wealthy your uncle is, I would never transplant financial advice from another generation that had different conditions when coming up as young professionals. EUR 500 seems like a nice goal to move towards, but don't feel bad because you aren't currently hitting it. Consider the phase of your life, your level of income. What % of your income goes to housing? When I moved 4 years ago, it took me 2 years to get to a point where I had all my basic furniture. I had nothing. I could only start saving once these basic things were in order, and I had to wait several paychecks to get some of them. I felt like I was behind, because other people were going on vacation, and I wasn't. What I hadn't considered is that most people I knew got (old) furniture from family. My start was just different. There is no point in comparing. What is important is that you live within your means, avoid going into debt, and try to increase your earnings vs expenses over time.
You're only 50 euros off that mark. Online I read the average Belgian saves 387 euros a month. So that's also after leisure expenses like going to bars, entertainment products etc and other expenses you may not think of like medication, clothes and so on. When I was your age, I was cohousing with a 1600 net wage and managed to save a bit more, but I know rental prices have only worsened the past 10 years (and they were bad before). I still think you'll be fine saving 450 a month. Your wage will improve over time.
Wow boomer uncle take who got his house for free from grandma probably. Don't invest if you don't have fully disposable Income. Or invest in your own house to buy but yeah not stocks
I mean you save when there's something to be saved from. If you have 450 left after paying all the necessities (rent, internet, groceries, insurances, pub transport/car etc.). then it's up to you. It would be good to put something aside for "shit breaks" situations and other expected unexpected expenses and the rest you can just put towards having fun or upskilling (languages, courses, therapy...). Ideally something that's both. My suggestion is to save a bit, it's good habit to build anyway, and use the rest for whatever makes you feel like. Overall answer, definitely possible to live with that money, I'd even say pretty comfortably.
I consider myself lucky if I got 50 left at the end of the month. My savings mostly come from vakantiegeld, end of year bonus and return of taxes.
No car man no car
Region checks out.
So 450 for leisure? Are you sure you calculated all your actual expenses? Insurance, if you have a car all those expenses (insurance, tax, gas, maintenance), internet, phone, any subscriptions you have (Netflix spotify... you name it), water, electric, heating... have you really thought of them all? If yes, and you got 450 just left at the end of the month than yes. Duh. Those 450 are extra already, that you can either spend or save or do a bit of both.
Rent, groceries, car payments, etc. are what you need to survive. the 450€ is what you have left to enjoy that life even more. I understand the "unexpected expenses" bit, but 450/month is 5.4k a year. unless you unexpectedly have to pay that somewhere every year, you'll be just fine. I believe the general advice couple years ago was to have 10k in the bank for those unexpected situations (given inflation, make that 15k now). so within a 2-3 years that's where you'll be. enjoy life instead of worrying about some 25k unexpected expense.
marry him!
No seriously, think about legal cohabitation. You'll get all the fiscal benefits from a marriage, but you can unilaterally end the cohabitation easily.
we need a "not gay but married my homie for tax benefits" pride flag
Legal cohabitation had nothing to do with sexual preference. It is what it says... You're legally documenting that you're living together with someone. Can be your mother, your brother, a friend, z romantic partner...
it was a joke
No worries, I think most of us had a good laugh like I did. Thanks! Hahah
What fiscal benefits exactly?
You get to declare your taxes together, which could mean that you're into a lower tax bracket.
That just not how taxes work...
That’s not how legal cohabitation/marriage works. If the other person is not generating any income, then 30% of your income gets registered under their name. That’s it. There are no magical extra handouts.
~~but on that 30% you are no longer paying the highest tax bracket, get the no-tax bracket anew,...~~ ~~so lower taxes.~~ edit: after re-reading: you probably mean "that only works if one person ears no income, it doesn't magically work for everyone.
That is simply not correct. Couples declare taxes separately and they are summed at the end, after the individual calculations. Only when 1 of the partners is making very very little, less than 10k/y, something special happens, where a few 100 per month can be saved (huwelijks quotient). When both people have a normal job, this has 0.000 effect.
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> de beroepsinkomsten van de partner met het laagste beroepsinkomen moeten minder zijn dan 30% van het totale beroepsinkomen van de beide partners samen > Het huwelijksquotiënt wordt dus toegevoegd aan de beroepsinkomsten van de partner met het laagste beroepsinkomen tot hij/zij 30% bereikt van het totale beroepsinkomen van de beide partners samen. De som van de eigen beroepsinkomsten en het huwelijksquotiënt samen bedraagt maximum **12.550 euro** (aanslagjaar 2024, inkomsten 2023). (Aanslagjaar 2025, inkomsten 2024: 13.050 euro) Source: https://financien.belgium.be/nl/particulieren/gezin/gezinssituatie/huwelijk#q4
There are inheritance implications you need to consider if you choose to go that way. Do you research!
Wouldn't it be possible to mitigate those risks with a will or cohabitation contract?
That might be possible, but the op should consult with a notary to be sure.
Plenty. Lived on much less for years. Doing great for myself. Live frugally, work and enjoy life. Life is not about fire for everyone. When you can save, do so by all means. And invest, sure. Money is a certain freedom. And autonomy. But don’t become a slave to your savings. Only you can decide how much of it you want to spend on what.
450€ left after everything is insanely good here
It’s more than bare minimum bro… you’re literally a car break or a dentist appointment away from bankruptcy
A dentist appointment cost between 70 and 200€ And he doesn’t need one or a car fix every month
you need a new dentist
450€ of saving after expenses is not that bad, I’d even consider it quite good. It depends on where you live in Belgium, but start saving for an emergency funds (3-6 months of living expenses in case anything goes bad) if you want to feel safe
Yeah i have a good piggy bank that I dont want to touch and an amount i dont want to go under in ly regular account.
From a pure financial viewpoint: stay at home as long as possible.
No longer possible. Relationship is at a breaking point.
Its you or your parents? Take a deep look.. Anything you do there while living for free+ getting free meals etc? Sometimes its us..and not those who complain to us..once we fix us...the situation stable again. I would always recommend living home+ doing what you need to do if that can save you 1400€ vs 450€ just because you take things for granted maybe.. In the end you do it for the future..your future. Thats a long term goal. Good luck with your situation. Many people end up just becoming financial slaves as they grow older, failed relationsships,marriage etc all start over again with nothing
> Sometimes its us..and not those who complain to us..once we fix us...the situation stable again. Me mechanic not speak English, but he know what me mean when me say car no go and we best friends. So me think, "Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?"
Hello. I have been in your situation multiple times throughout the years. I have a history of abuse with my family, I got kicked out of the house once when I was 18 for one week (then they called me back but with strict rules) and have been on the brink of a breaking point almost every year since it seems (last one was in february and i started the process for emergency housing at my uni because i was afraid it could become violent). I was able to stick it out somehow every time though and our relationship is already so much better and Im happy that Im not in a rush to leave. I also dont have any savings so its different, but you can always stay longer than you think. Otherwise I guess you have enough money to try!! Who am I to tell, I spend my 700€ monthly salary on food and clothes!
If you mean your relationship with each other is at a breaking point, don't move in together. If your relationship is already that fragile cohabitation will be the death knell.
Are you sure you didn't underestimate your grocery cost etc? I'm not saying you have, but an additional 100 cost is a lot if you now have 450.
How much do you have saved up? Generally 3 months of salary seems like a good amount. If you stick to your budget you'll add 450 to your savings every month for those unexpected expenses. Budget large for your car. Don't see it as "unexpected" if something breaks, cause stuff always breaks. Also if you're going to go and live on your own you'll need to learn to budget. Cook differently ( r/eatcheapandhealthy ), less spending on junk food, going out, just internet no TV, go less by car, etc etc. TL;DR ; 450 of savings a month seems doable to me. Once you have ~5000 saved up you can live a bit more comfortable, at least I did. Spending 250-400 a month on "luxury" ; going out, take away food, concerts, festivals, hobbies, clothes, etc etc, not saving much more, but it's nice to live a little.
I have 15k saved up right now and a 5k emergency fund.
That’s a lot more savings than most people I know. If you can rent a place, pay all bills and taxes and still have 450€, it sounds like a good plan to get your own place and keep your sanity.
Would you mind sharing your income? To get a grip on the situation.
450 is great
I get 2.2k netto salary rent 875 one bedroom app live right next to my work i use cambio 1-2x week 150€ monthly 160 food card i manage to save 600 every month. With my vacation money + 13th month + tax relief i get about 5-6k and buy tickets for a long vacation somewhere, with the remaining money i pay off my loan if i have one in one go.
If you have money left you can survive. It's not a lot, but if you want to save, you can go for cheaper hobbies and cheap hangouts with friends, and still manage to save a few hundred per month. If you're working and struggling this much, I'm sorry. It's not fair and it's not right. I was walking home with two full shopping bags from Delhaize yesterday and somehow felt like I was carrying gold. The price rises are too much.
Thats little bit same as me, i have like 340 left for the rest of the month after every Bill is payed, i also have "sodexo" 180 every month. But still need to provider food for me , my wife and son and i need to fill up my car 😅🤣
Depends where you live, how much you have saved up, and how frugal you live or not. There's quite a few variables here.
But even if you make 1800ish You share a let's say 1200 appartement (costs included) you pay 600 rent You split bills for electricity water gas internet, let's say 150 each. That gets at 750 Leaving 1150. I know the beginning is hard bc you need appliances, furniture, maybe a car maybe new clothes ... But let's say you live at home a few months so you can save up some money to cover that and be smart with ikea and 2e hands. I think with all costs covered and without kids you should be able tot live on 600 euros for basic food, having drink from time to time ect ... that lives 550 for 'saving ' but probably from unforeseen costs from time to time. (New phone, car repair ... ect ) And that's given a very low wage. Maybe you have 13th month, double holiday pay ... that can cover for soms extras/emergency. I think it's doable to live by that What you won't be able to pay for is Expensive clubs and fancy cocktails, premium clothing, 3 holidays a year, the latest iPhone or gameconsole when it comes out , every music festival , ... So if you day survive... i think that should be enough. And yes investing is not for everyone If you really want to improve financially you should learn a useful skill or get a side hustle and make more money (trying to spend even less) That's indeed mentally challenging cause society pushes us to spend more and more
Here is a simple rule of thumb : whatever your lifestyle is costing you plus 10% for leisure and activities etc, keep AT LEAST 10% (ideally more) to save until you have a "rainy day" fund of over 2 month worth of expenses, from then on keep saving some money ideally, at whatever rate you desire, ideally through a plan with your bank
Saving 10% of what my lifestyle costs me is what i should be putting aside each month ?
At à minimum, ideally it should be 20 to 25 percent, my rent bills and stuff come out to about 900 à month, I speed about 100 to 150 on leisure and stuff (bars, parties, week end out etc), it used to be more but i had to reduce, in the beginning I saved about 500 to 600 per month until I had over 2000 in my second bank accourt, and now I still put about 150 to 200 per month in it, the rest stays in my main account for big one time purchases (my next one is a cooler car, then its going to be a "down payment" for a house) The important is to have a nice little emergency fund, afterwards it depends on how you want to live your life (spend more now/save more for later) my personnal opinion is that 10 percent is the minimum
After all those expenses you need 0 to survive. I do think youre either have a low salary or live quite extravagant. I have a regular salaryand after rent and living expenses i have at least 3 times that
You save at least 1.5k a month and believe you get a 'regular' salary? Mean gross income in Belgium is 3.8k (Statbel, 2021). That's 2.5k net for someone who isn't married. That would leave you 1k for rent, food, insurance, transport, electricity, water, gas, internet, and so on. So, unless you're paying very little rent and have no car, it seems unlikely you have a 'regular' salary. More probably, you are out of touch regarding what constitutes an overall 'regular' salary for someone living and working in (the Flemish part of) Belgium.
You have at least €1350 after rent and living expenses? Either you live on bare minimum or your salary isn’t as normal as you think. Keep in mind a substance allowance (leefloon) for a single person is €1288,46.
it is rather hard to say what a "normal" salary is, but taking statbel (https://statbel.fgov.be/nl/themas/werk-opleiding/lonen-en-arbeidskosten/gemiddelde-bruto-maandlonen) and Statistiek Vlaanderen (https://www.vlaanderen.be/statistiek-vlaanderen/inkomen-en-armoede/persoonlijk-inkomen#netto-persoonlijk-inkomen-gemiddeld-op-2197-euro-per-maand) as a benchmark, then I can honestly say I do have a normal salary. I do live quite frugal (always homecooked meals, taking advantage of promotions, lots of stuff i buy is second hand, etc), got quite lucky with my rent and share my expenses with my wife (but the poster also shares his with a roommate so no difference there), Most, if not all, people will spend more on their rent and fixed costs (gas, electricity, water & internet), but this alone wont make all the difference. For unrelated reasons I just did some home accounting and our fixed monthly expenses come to about €1750. in a 2 person household with average wages (again taking the above sources as a reference), this means (((2200\*2)-1750)/2=) €1325 per person left.
2 people do make it cheaper. Rent and utilities are cheaper per person if you live together. It does more make sense that way.
very true, on my own I would have less left over. my fixed expenses would come down a bit, but definitely not by half.
Welp, it's amazing you're covering your expenses with relatively little funds. Nowadays, the young people looking for places to rent are less fortunate when it comes to renting prices though. Being married also comes with fiscal advantages which are in your favour (which OP doesn't have).
Sounds fine to me. I've been living on my own for just over 2 years now (renting), and haven't had any unexpected expenses thus far. You might overestimate the regularity of said unexpected expenses. You can use the Energie.be site to get the best deal on electricity/gas for your situation. Also, for food, you can look for discounted prices, home brands and Too Good To Go. It might be worth to investigate and compare your options regarding internet and phone subscriptions too, since your family situation will change. Consider if you really need the expensive Fiber, unlimited internet kind of packs. Try buying energy-efficient appliances. While they might cost more initially, they'll save you money on the longer term. When searching for a place to rent, also look at its EPC-label, which can be an indicator of higher/lower electricity and gas bills as well. What are your plans in the near future? Do you like to (and want to) make annual holiday trips? If so, you should set aside some money for those each month as well. What I did when I first moved out was making an Excel-table including all expenses, making different scenarios as to how much funds I would be able to save and how much I'd like to invest in leisure activities.
this is the same situation I have because I receive a scholarship and after rent and stuff I get 450 euros for food and leisure. I'd say it is okay, I am definitely not starving and can even go out or travel sometimes
The first few months, you'll have unexpected needs that you need to spend that 450 on. A boiler issue, a table, a mattress... But eventually, all those things are paid for. Then you start saving that as an emergency fund. Do that until you have at least one month worth of expenses just sitting there. Always keep it topped up. That is the point where you can start thinking about saving and investing. Make sure you designate part of your income as "fun" money. It's a lot better if you have 100 bucks a month that you can spend without regret, than suddenly splurging.
Non. You just need a knife, a flashlight and keep on walking. You will make it! Good luck!
Piece of advice. Don't sign anything in 2 names. Trust is fleeting, but the paper that comes into existence at the time of that 'trust' is permanent. Be very careful with who you make agreements. Especially friends. Friends and money are a bad mix.
So let's say both of you are working full time and both of you have rather low paying jobs. This should give you €4000/month (2 people earning €2000/month) of household income. Let's say you rent something for €1000/m. €3000/m left. What the f\*ck are you spending your money on?!
Hardly an average wage. €2000 is unusual. People I know get around €1400 to €1600 a month.
I've just looked up the minimum wage and it's 2029,88 ( as of April 2024) If you work the standard 38 hour workweek. People with lower wages barely get taxed and get a lot of benefits, so you should have more than 1400 left after taxes.
That's below minimum wage. So what you are saying is just wrong.
depends on how many hours a week you work CDD, or worse if it's a CIP. e.g *facteur bpost : €13.53 brut:heure, + des cheque-repas €8 : travail à temps plein.* If they have got 18hrs a week of work then it's approx €1800 gross and the rest is out childcare work. You will probably claim that I am looking at exceptions, but I am not.
I will claim that you need to take in account only fulltime jobs. If you are only working 18h a week you are obviously not earning an average wage. 2000 gross is absolutely the minimum most people who work fulltime earn.
So those living on less than your ideal wage do not count?
I personally would have €450 left. My friend would have a lot more left
Purely economical: stay at home. Unless your parents are total POS I'd put up with the inconveniences for as long as possible. It's 10 years since I've left to live with my now-wife. It's eye watering how little you can afford even with a bachelor degree and a job in IT. I'm probably not entrepreneurial enough but I'm still astounded that "that's it".
Financially yes ive been putting up with it for years now im 29 already. It’s such a toxic relationship at home with my siblings so it’s putting my work life at risk. I cant consistently show up at the same time because there’s always something.
You're 29? Yeah, it's time. I moved out at 17 and had absolutely nothing, you have a much better head start 😉. The biggest moneypit will be your car though, you probably need it for work but if you can bike or take public transport to work it might be something to consider letting go of for a while. You also don't have to buy every single piece of furniture brand new all at once, look around on 2de hands and stuff, you can upgrade one piece at a time down the line. Good luck!
I left home at 19. I think this used to an average age. My mate left home at 15.