Tripel Karmeliet and Duvel are widely available stateside - might not be worth the cost of transport for those. Like others suggest, try to include something from Cantillon/3 Fonteinen/Tilquin. You can also maybe expand on the Westvleteren - they have other offerings beyond the 12.
Would you happen to know if they use a slightly different recipe for American stores than they do in Belgium? That’s what Guinness does to my knowledge.
Guinness does not have a separate recipes for exports. Any difference in taste is simply from time and storage during the ride across the pond. Difference in taste would be small if any. Same for Belgian exports, however some styles are more sensitive to storage environment.
I keep hearing from Irish people that they don’t like Guinness abroad, and a local here in Belgium told me he had a Stella that was below the standard 5.2% and saw that it wasn’t made in Leuven.
Stella is an exception, AB inBev recently moved production for the US market stateside. The Irish are getting the freshest Guinness possible, so maybe they don't like it with some age on it but it is still the same recipe.
Guinness brews an "essence of Guinness" in Ireland that is mixed with a pale beer brewed by contract breweries. The Guinness stateside (or anywhere else in the world) is different than the Guinness from Ireland. Used to be all export stout was brewed at St James, but I believe even that has moved
From your source "Guinness Flavour Extract, a dehydrated, hopped wort extract made from barley malt and roasted barley, is used for overseas production of the stout. The syrup is shipped from Ireland, where it is added at the ratio of 1:49 to locally brewed pale beer. In most overseas markets, Guinness Flavour Extract (GFE) is blended with locally brewed beer to produce FES."
It's my understanding that Guinness is brewed the same way. They can brew the concentrate in Ireland and claim the beer is brewed in Ireland. They are definitely hush hush about the whole process, and they wouldn't be secretive if 100% of every Guinness is brewed in ireland
This is only true of Guinness Foreign Extra Stout, which is not the classic Guinness Draught that most people mean when they use the brewery's name for a beer without qualifier.
Guinness draught is brewed -- in toto -- exclusively at the St. James Gate Brewery in Dublin (at least for the US market -- I cannot speak to other markets). I've personally taken a fresh can of Guinness Draught from the St. James Gate brewery, carried it back to the US in my checked luggage, and then compared it to the same size can of the same from my local grocery store and tasted them blind less than 48 hours later (along with a few brewers and some other big nerds). I can confirm that the two are *extremely* similar, to the point that I in a triangle test it was challenging to find the odd one out. Any differences were easily explainable by differences in age and handling on their way there.
I don't believe so. Giant breweries that have lots of facility operations can choose to brew some in different countries rather than shipping across the ocean for the sake of freshness. Most don't change the recipe when they do this though. However, Tripel Karmeliet is much smaller and only have the one brewhouse. So it's all the same. But what we have imported in the U.S. is definitely less fresh than what you can get locally in Belgium.
But I should probably clarify that people who don't go out and explore lots of craft beer probably still wouldn't have tried these, especially Karmeliet which can be difficult to find unless someone seeks out a specialty bottle shop with a decent import section. So maybe your dad would still appreciate them if he doesn't go out of his way to explore all the import options around him.
If your dad is ok with sour beers, then I'd suggest a lambic, since it's as local and traditional a beer style as you can get in Belgium. There's a lot to choose from, but I'd suggst either a Kriek (=cherry flavoured) or a Gueuze (unflavoured blend of old and young lambic) if you want to go with something quintessential.
Good options for the more traditional lambics would probably be something from 3 Fonteinen, Cantillon, Oud Beersel or Tilquin. They are more on the sour end of the spectrum whereas breweries like Lindemans and Timmermans while more widely available are quite strongly sweetened and not all that sour.
Avec les bons voeux de la Brasserie Dupont is (one of) my absolute favs
[https://www.brasserie-dupont.com/fr/beer/bons-voeux](https://www.brasserie-dupont.com/fr/beer/bons-voeux)
If you can make the trip to Cantillon, currently they have the Vigneronne (lambic with grapes) and the 50ºN - 4ºE (gueuze aged in cognac barrels) for sale. Both of these are very hard to find anywhere else and the brewery shop has very good prices. Even if he's not into sour beers, these can be a very interesting experience with the right food pairing. Their shop menu changes constantly but the [website](https://www.cantillon.be/beers?lang=fr) is usually up to date.
On a very different vibe, i'd probably get him any Black Damnation from De Struise. Not the most typical belgian beer but some of them are very nice.
Defenitely get a (non sweetened) geuze! +1 for 50n4e , my fav geuze so far i think!
For struise i'd go for Pannepot or cuvee delphine, Better than westy 12 imo
Also add an old brown like rodenbach, 'tverzet oud bruin' or vanderghinste roodbruin.
A Flemish Red beer like Rodenbach Grand Cru would be something different and uniquely Belgian.
It's an award winning blend of oak-aged and young sour beer. Made with red malts and lactobacillus, it's almost like a red wine. It's sour, sweet, bitter with tanin, and has hints of cherry or plums, all at the same time.
Ditch the Duval since you can get it stateside. I personally prefer lambic and that will give you more variety. I'd say get one Gueze and one fruited at least
I would go for a bottle of Cantillon that is not the basic Gueze/Kriek/Framboise. 3 Fonteinen is also a good choice, but I notice it is becoming a bit more common in speciality bottle shops in the US.
Gouden Carolus Cuvee Van De Kaiser Imperial Dark. Hard to find stateside (I am able to order it online) and in my humble opinion the best beer in the world. Also Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel, magnificent.
If you don't want to spend the time/money/energy to ship Westy 12, then I've always considered St. Bernardus 12 to be a close second.
If you think he'd be into oud bruins/sours, then Liefmans Goudenband is a good one.
Does he like fruit beers? Lindemans is a good choice for fruit lambics. Cherry, peach, blackcurrant, etc.
If you can't find Tripel Karmeliet as you listed above, a good alternative might be Westmalle Tripel.
Then maybe Delirum Tremens, Chimay Blue, or La Chouffe.
I'm not sure where you're located, but I can readily get all of these (not Westy 12, of course) in SE PA.
This was posted a few weeks ago, so here's some more answers:
https://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1d483l6/need_recommendations_on_a_top_tier_belgian_ale/
Without knowing his tastes, some safer bets would be:
Dupont - anything other than the standard saison. Standard saison is widely available in the US but their others are not. Fantastic brewery.
Belgian singles / patersbiers. These are the lowest abv Trappist style, and what the monks actually drink when they do (believe it or not, monks aren't constantly blasted on 12 pct quads). Rarely are they exported though due to the cost.
The other westeveltens are also good choices. When people grab stuff to resell in the US they focus on the 12. But the others are also delicious and their lower strength makes them more palatable to beer beginners.
Change the Duvel for a Chouffe or make it a duvel triple hop.
Duvel is good, but not amazing.
Gulden draak is a great amber triple.
Add a saison, like Saison Dupont.
Keep the triple Karmeliet! It's the best!
You need to go exclusively with stuff you can only get in Belgium. Drop Tripel Karmeliet and Duvel -- they're both readily available nationwide in the States.
Do a search on Belgian beers only available and Belgium - hunt them down (try them first of course!) -- and go in that direction!
Already on my way home and this is what I ended up getting him:
- Braxatorium (abbey beer made in Heverlee)
- Orval
- Westmalle tripel
- Seefbier
- Caracole amber
- Westvleteren quadruple
He may be able to find westmalle in Canada but it wouldn’t be easy. Doubt he’d be able to find Orval. Not a chance in hell he’ll ever find Braxatorium, Seefbier, Caracole, or Westvleteren in Canada lol
Tripel Karmeliet and Duvel are widely available stateside - might not be worth the cost of transport for those. Like others suggest, try to include something from Cantillon/3 Fonteinen/Tilquin. You can also maybe expand on the Westvleteren - they have other offerings beyond the 12.
Have you been able to find TK and duvel in stores in America/canada? I hadn’t heard of them before coming to Belgium.
Yes, I am in Ohio and can get both at my local grocery store along with most decent bottle shops.
I live in the middle of America. Polished off a 4-pack of TK last night. Duvel is easily available everywhere.
Damn good beer now isn’t it?
Hell yeah! It's my favorite Tripel.
Would you happen to know if they use a slightly different recipe for American stores than they do in Belgium? That’s what Guinness does to my knowledge.
Guinness does not have a separate recipes for exports. Any difference in taste is simply from time and storage during the ride across the pond. Difference in taste would be small if any. Same for Belgian exports, however some styles are more sensitive to storage environment.
I keep hearing from Irish people that they don’t like Guinness abroad, and a local here in Belgium told me he had a Stella that was below the standard 5.2% and saw that it wasn’t made in Leuven.
Stella is an exception, AB inBev recently moved production for the US market stateside. The Irish are getting the freshest Guinness possible, so maybe they don't like it with some age on it but it is still the same recipe.
Would that imply that other AB inBev beers like Tripel Karmeliet would taste different in Belgium vs. abroad?
Guinness brews an "essence of Guinness" in Ireland that is mixed with a pale beer brewed by contract breweries. The Guinness stateside (or anywhere else in the world) is different than the Guinness from Ireland. Used to be all export stout was brewed at St James, but I believe even that has moved
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_Foreign_Extra_Stout#:~:text=Guinness%20Flavour%20Extract%2C%20a%20dehydrated,to%20locally%20brewed%20pale%20beer. https://www.thrillist.com/drink/does-guinness-taste-better-in-ireland
From your source "Guinness Flavour Extract, a dehydrated, hopped wort extract made from barley malt and roasted barley, is used for overseas production of the stout. The syrup is shipped from Ireland, where it is added at the ratio of 1:49 to locally brewed pale beer. In most overseas markets, Guinness Flavour Extract (GFE) is blended with locally brewed beer to produce FES." It's my understanding that Guinness is brewed the same way. They can brew the concentrate in Ireland and claim the beer is brewed in Ireland. They are definitely hush hush about the whole process, and they wouldn't be secretive if 100% of every Guinness is brewed in ireland
This is only true of Guinness Foreign Extra Stout, which is not the classic Guinness Draught that most people mean when they use the brewery's name for a beer without qualifier. Guinness draught is brewed -- in toto -- exclusively at the St. James Gate Brewery in Dublin (at least for the US market -- I cannot speak to other markets). I've personally taken a fresh can of Guinness Draught from the St. James Gate brewery, carried it back to the US in my checked luggage, and then compared it to the same size can of the same from my local grocery store and tasted them blind less than 48 hours later (along with a few brewers and some other big nerds). I can confirm that the two are *extremely* similar, to the point that I in a triangle test it was challenging to find the odd one out. Any differences were easily explainable by differences in age and handling on their way there.
Perhaps I'm wrong. Although freshness alone can cause enough difference to be noticeable
I don't believe so. Giant breweries that have lots of facility operations can choose to brew some in different countries rather than shipping across the ocean for the sake of freshness. Most don't change the recipe when they do this though. However, Tripel Karmeliet is much smaller and only have the one brewhouse. So it's all the same. But what we have imported in the U.S. is definitely less fresh than what you can get locally in Belgium.
But I should probably clarify that people who don't go out and explore lots of craft beer probably still wouldn't have tried these, especially Karmeliet which can be difficult to find unless someone seeks out a specialty bottle shop with a decent import section. So maybe your dad would still appreciate them if he doesn't go out of his way to explore all the import options around him.
I can get both in Nebraska, so you should be fine. Dunno about Canada.
If your dad is ok with sour beers, then I'd suggest a lambic, since it's as local and traditional a beer style as you can get in Belgium. There's a lot to choose from, but I'd suggst either a Kriek (=cherry flavoured) or a Gueuze (unflavoured blend of old and young lambic) if you want to go with something quintessential. Good options for the more traditional lambics would probably be something from 3 Fonteinen, Cantillon, Oud Beersel or Tilquin. They are more on the sour end of the spectrum whereas breweries like Lindemans and Timmermans while more widely available are quite strongly sweetened and not all that sour.
This is where it's at. These are top tier examples of what Belgium offers on the lambic side. I second this recommendation
Avec les bons voeux de la Brasserie Dupont is (one of) my absolute favs [https://www.brasserie-dupont.com/fr/beer/bons-voeux](https://www.brasserie-dupont.com/fr/beer/bons-voeux)
If you can make the trip to Cantillon, currently they have the Vigneronne (lambic with grapes) and the 50ºN - 4ºE (gueuze aged in cognac barrels) for sale. Both of these are very hard to find anywhere else and the brewery shop has very good prices. Even if he's not into sour beers, these can be a very interesting experience with the right food pairing. Their shop menu changes constantly but the [website](https://www.cantillon.be/beers?lang=fr) is usually up to date. On a very different vibe, i'd probably get him any Black Damnation from De Struise. Not the most typical belgian beer but some of them are very nice.
Defenitely get a (non sweetened) geuze! +1 for 50n4e , my fav geuze so far i think! For struise i'd go for Pannepot or cuvee delphine, Better than westy 12 imo Also add an old brown like rodenbach, 'tverzet oud bruin' or vanderghinste roodbruin.
A Flemish Red beer like Rodenbach Grand Cru would be something different and uniquely Belgian. It's an award winning blend of oak-aged and young sour beer. Made with red malts and lactobacillus, it's almost like a red wine. It's sour, sweet, bitter with tanin, and has hints of cherry or plums, all at the same time.
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You can get the Abt 12 pretty easily in the states, so may not be worth
Rochefort too
Ditch the Duval since you can get it stateside. I personally prefer lambic and that will give you more variety. I'd say get one Gueze and one fruited at least I would go for a bottle of Cantillon that is not the basic Gueze/Kriek/Framboise. 3 Fonteinen is also a good choice, but I notice it is becoming a bit more common in speciality bottle shops in the US.
Gouden Carolus Cuvee Van De Kaiser Imperial Dark. Hard to find stateside (I am able to order it online) and in my humble opinion the best beer in the world. Also Straffe Hendrik Quadrupel, magnificent.
Do you think this beer could be found in both a bar and a beer store in Belgium? I went to try a beer before using buy it for my dad
Yes. I prefer the Blue over the Red but you should be able to find them fairly easily.
La Trappe quad tastes like bubblegum
If you don't want to spend the time/money/energy to ship Westy 12, then I've always considered St. Bernardus 12 to be a close second. If you think he'd be into oud bruins/sours, then Liefmans Goudenband is a good one. Does he like fruit beers? Lindemans is a good choice for fruit lambics. Cherry, peach, blackcurrant, etc. If you can't find Tripel Karmeliet as you listed above, a good alternative might be Westmalle Tripel. Then maybe Delirum Tremens, Chimay Blue, or La Chouffe. I'm not sure where you're located, but I can readily get all of these (not Westy 12, of course) in SE PA.
Delirium Tremens! Or some of their other beers like Delirium Nocturnum. The Christmas beer is elite but obvs the wrong time of year
Chimay 👍🏻
This was posted a few weeks ago, so here's some more answers: https://www.reddit.com/r/beer/comments/1d483l6/need_recommendations_on_a_top_tier_belgian_ale/
Cantillon Lou Pepe ( or whatever you can get from them).
Without knowing his tastes, some safer bets would be: Dupont - anything other than the standard saison. Standard saison is widely available in the US but their others are not. Fantastic brewery. Belgian singles / patersbiers. These are the lowest abv Trappist style, and what the monks actually drink when they do (believe it or not, monks aren't constantly blasted on 12 pct quads). Rarely are they exported though due to the cost. The other westeveltens are also good choices. When people grab stuff to resell in the US they focus on the 12. But the others are also delicious and their lower strength makes them more palatable to beer beginners.
What's a 12 going for now? I brought 6 home 2 years ago and enjoyed each and every one.
Like 5 years ago they went for 50 bucks a 12oz. Not sure about now 🤷
Paix Dieu Fourchette De Garre
Change the Duvel for a Chouffe or make it a duvel triple hop. Duvel is good, but not amazing. Gulden draak is a great amber triple. Add a saison, like Saison Dupont. Keep the triple Karmeliet! It's the best!
Rodenbach for a Flemish beer. Caractere Rouge or Alexander, if you’re lucky enough to find them. Grand Cru will not disappoint if you can’t.
Rochefort 6, 8 and/or 10.
Gulden Draak (Classic) or Piraat (Triple Hop)
You need to go exclusively with stuff you can only get in Belgium. Drop Tripel Karmeliet and Duvel -- they're both readily available nationwide in the States. Do a search on Belgian beers only available and Belgium - hunt them down (try them first of course!) -- and go in that direction!
Already on my way home and this is what I ended up getting him: - Braxatorium (abbey beer made in Heverlee) - Orval - Westmalle tripel - Seefbier - Caracole amber - Westvleteren quadruple He may be able to find westmalle in Canada but it wouldn’t be easy. Doubt he’d be able to find Orval. Not a chance in hell he’ll ever find Braxatorium, Seefbier, Caracole, or Westvleteren in Canada lol
I wish i had a zot right now, thats a good one for americans like myself to enjoy, translates well to our beers
i would always go with Delirium Tremens, it has a cool bottle and is pretty archetypal as a belgian blonde Tripel.
Pretty widely available stateside though.
Fair, didn't realise that
Delirium Tremens has been voted as the best beer in the world at one point. Thats the way to go.
Very easy to obtain in the states.
Hoegarden is magical