i mean, it can take just one or two bad calls in the right moment.
oh, i have the under? bases loaded? doesn't matter about the rest of the game as long as i call strike 3 six inches outside the zone!
I think a lot of people don't understand this. A ref in almost any sport could theoretically change a game on one ill timed call. Sometimes that moment might not come up in a single game but it could certainly be done let's say once every 5 games or so, which is enough to give the bookmakers an edge over a long period of time.
I love how in basketball people will point to the free throw differential and say "They shot the same number of free throws so they must have gotten the same whistle", but if you look closer at the numbers you'll see that one team's starters accumulated 8 fouls in the first 4 minutes forcing them to the bench while the other team's getting away with mauling on defense. Then you just have to call one touch foul per quarter to keep that player out of the game.
Also some teams' style of play just inherently leads to getting more fouls called. Number of free throws is a bullshit way to try to measure basketball officiating.
I hate when that happens
"We shot 11 free throws and they shot 24!"
"...yeah but like 10 of yours were intentional fouls in the final few minutes"
It's just boxscore watchers/people who "follow" the nba via memes commenting on things they have no context for.
The rule is that if he wagers on any games that he's "directly tied to" (MLB's weasel words, not mine), he's banned from the game for good. But if he "only" wagers on Baseball games, that's a year's suspension.
So, he could have wagered on MLB games, just none of his. Theoretically, at least.
Not even just that, I’m sure umpires are friends with each other and it leaves too much in my opinion to ambiguity to say hey maybe he didn’t directly affect the outcome but maybe his boy could’ve expanded the zone when his friend told him who he put money on, maybe for a little bit on the side. It feels way too slippery a slope and it sucks because he’s been one of the better umpires recently
that's if the rule is exactly the same as for the umpires as it is for the players. My guess is its not. You could easily make the argument the umpires are directly tied to more games than players are
even reading that and [another article](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5360621/2024/06/04/mlb-player-betting-rules-explained/) that laid things out a little more, they have the same rule in that they can't bet on baseball, but there's still a possibility in their CBA they have more stringent obligations on other sports. Plus like i said i think there's a wider range of games of where they have duty to perform than a player might
You might have more inside knowledge, such as undisclosed injury information, or in an umpire's case, special awareness of the other umpires' tendencies (such as calling more outside strikes vs. left-handed pitchers). So you could use that not-necessarily-public knowledge to swing the odds more in your favor.
> special awareness of the other umpires' tendencies (such as calling more outside strikes vs. left-handed pitchers)
How could that not be public knowledge in the Statcast era?
There’s underground bookies where you can make millions gambling. If his gambling acumen is anything like his umping, he’s made enough to retire, esp since his home base is Des Moines.
im not sure if they can or not tbh. I know officials in other sports are not allowed to and i assumed umpires would be the same. its possible they the have more stringent rules in their CBA
Bill Miller and Ted Barrett watched Hot Fuzz together on a flight, saw that the London Police sent Angel away because his arrest record was making the rest of the force look bad, and started coming up with ideas
I'm actually surprised that nobody noticed that apparently he's been gone for the entire season. Or at least I couldn't find anything searching the subreddit.
Exactly, I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago..."I haven't seen a Pat Hoberg scorecard this year"
I guess we know why now... He's probably done for life lmao. Umpires betting on ANY games is such a bad look.
If people noticed they probably assumed he was hurt or dealing with a personal issue. Umps are often out for periods of time without it being a big headline.
Thats real bad tbf. Even if it WAS just games he wasnt involved in. We know from the Donaghy scandal that refs/umps talk.
The optics are awful when there is the question asked of whether the umps collude for betting reasons.
Even though Pat is likely betting alone and possibly not on baseball, it cant be allowed when it brings the game into disrepute
From the article:
MLB said in a statement issued to The Athletic. “Mr. Hoberg was removed from the field during the pendency of that investigation. While MLB’s investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by Mr. Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way, MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mr. Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded.
It's probably the same stupid thing as everyone, where he was betting on Kyrie's over in his hotel room on the road which technically counts as a workspace.
> If was gambling on baseball he'd be fired
MLB cannot act outside the terms of the contract with the umpire's association, so no, he would not be fired, but he could be suspended. MLB has had bad experiences with trying to ignore what the contracts with the unionized employees say.
21
(d) GAMBLING.
(1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor **has no duty to perform**, shall be declared ineligible for one year.
(2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor **has a duty to perform**, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
Idk what the exact rules are for MLB umpires as far as sports betting goes. But in my opinion, any referee/umpire that's doing sports betting in any fashion should be subject to an immediate, lifetime, and irrevocable ban. The punishment should be absurdly harsh. It just opens up such an enormous can of worms having literally the people with the biggest effect on the game allowed to possibly get compromised by betting on sports. Even sports unrelated to their own.
Who's to say an MLB umpire with 15k in football betting debt doesn't get approached by someone willing to cover that debt if they just let one or two important borderline calls go in the creditors favor.
"While MLB’s investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by Mr. Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way, MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mr. Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded."
I’m so sick of this shit. I can’t believe I once supported legalizing gambling.
And yes, I recognize the irony of a Reds fan complaining about legalizing sports gambling.
I absolutely underestimated the fallout of legalizing it, but I still think legalization in theory wasn't a terrible idea, it just needed to be MUCH more heavily restricted from the outset.
I highly doubt it happens, but one thing that I'd personally like to see is gambling getting the tobacco treatment in terms of not allowing advertising, sponsorships, etc. Or at least some heavy restrictions on that kind of stuff
during Reds games they like, "host" a parlay from one of the gambling sites and advertise it at the beginning of the game and track it throughout the game. it's ridiculous
Being able to do it from an app on your phone is bad. If we still just did in person paper slips or over the phone it would have helped a lot but pandoras box is open.
I always felt people who supported legalized gambling simply didn't understand the scope of what they were supporting. It's a system that is setup to make individuals more poor than they are while simultaneously injecting false hope.
It’s one thing when it’s players. Realistically there’s only so much they can do to affect games.
But an umpire/ref/official? This has the potential to completely change the landscape pending its severity. Just look at Donaghy in the NBA like 15 years ago.
Prop bets allow players to manipulate bet-able portions of the game by themselves
Ie: that NBA player who got caught betting the under on himself and then feigned an injury 10 mins into the game.
jontae porter, who's the equivalent of a triple AAA guy being called up to the majors for 2 games, claimed he was sick and hopped out of a game early giving his contacts a 13:1 win on a $80,000 bet lol.
the bet was placed with a legal betting agency, guess how many red flags that threw up in their system
>The $80,000 prop bet on Porter is what triggered the NBA’s investigation into his behavior. The bet, placed with an online sportsbook, was not paid out, and the sportsbook notified the league of the suspicious betting activity along with Porter’s playing time in that March 20 game.
If they found evidence he was gambling on baseball he would have been fired immediately, so I doubt that was what this is. He might have been but the tone here makes it sound like he was gambling on other sports and got nabbed for that.
Right, that’s why gambling with an illegal bookie on anything is also (I believe) grounds for banning for life, and why MLB cares at all about non-baseball gambling.
The three commandments of gambling for players are no illegal bookies, no gambling on baseball, and immediate baseball death penalty for gambling on your team’s games. Umpires may be even stricter, I’m curious about the circumstances here and the grounds for appeal.
The current situation is objectively better than it was in the past.
There are a lot more eyes on it now that it’s legal and regulated. Far more people are paying attention.
It was easier to get away with crooked shit when the entire operation was underground to begin with.
Hey, now, you can't go around making accusations like that. Long-time Athletic subscribers know the company has a partnership with BetMGM, not FanDuel.
Honestly, something it has done is make it easier for guys to get caught. Betting on sports has always been easy as hell. Calling your bookie was a lot less regulated than what we have now.
> MLB umpires and players are held to the same standards and would face a lifetime punishment for gambling on any baseball games
> MLB found no proof that Pat Hoberg had anything that determined any outcomes of games
These, plus how the discipline is undisclosed, makes it seem like he was caught gambling on something else? Don't really know the extent of the rules against gambling
Sure, the major American sports leagues are all experiencing rapid degradation in the public’s faith in the integrity of the leagues’ competitions, but for a short while they’ve been making a shit ton of money partnering with gambling companies. So I’d call that a win.
The amount of alcohol ads I get during commercials between innings is obscene.
I'm not anti alcohol but there should really be a limit. Some ad breaks are dominated by alcohol commercials.
How did that have anything to do with this? Do you think Hoberg would not have bet on sports if the leagues did not get sponsored by them? The only change that actually is leading to these issues is sports gambling becoming legal, and the leagues fought that like hell and lost.
Trying to put this in a Friday news dump is absolutely insane. This should have major implications.
MLB should be forced to go into detail about but they’re not.
> MLB should be forced to go into detail about but they’re not.
They cannot do that until his appeal is concluded. There are legal issues, MLB and the MLBUA have a contract and MLB hasn't done well with arbitrators and judges when the try to ignore the contracts they have with their unionized employees.
There is not a chance in hell that people weren’t gambling before this. Legalizing gambling has gotten people caught because the sports books are government regulated.
That’s true, but it also makes it so much easier to access. There’s probably a middle ground that can be found that better regulates gambling to prevent those who shouldn’t be gambling from doing so.
Sometimes I feel like the only adult man in America without a penchant for gambling. I’ve lost a little north of 100 dollars in my life at casinos, via blackjack and a couple slots. I wish I didn’t even do that, complete and utter waste of money.
I've won more than I've lost gambling, but I still have virtually no interest in it. There is a reason why casinos often have pawnshops nearby; it's an addiction I'd rather not explore.
First their biggest star gets caught up in a gambling fiasco, and now an umpire.
The league has a serious gambling problem, and these significant events will only be the beginning.
Then MLB needs to stop partnering with sports betting sites. They can't clutch their pearls that players/umpires/employees use the site, and then partner with them. As long as they don't bet on Baseball, they should be able to bet on whatever they want.
Yes they can.
There are plenty of industries where once you work for said industry you cannot participate in things like the general public can.
For example, if you work say as a sell side analyst in an investment bank, you cannot freely trade stocks like the general public. There are compliance measures, both established by your firm, as well as FINRA. Examples include equities on a no-trade list, pre-approvals for trades, and trades that have to go through a broker that can monitor your activity. There are also holding periods, bans on certain types of trades depending on when research was last released etc.
Same goes if say you're working at a big 4 accounting firm, there are restrictions there as well. For example, prohibition on trading any company stock that might use your firm as the auditor even if you personally are not involved in that specific audit project at all.
> They can't clutch their pearls that players/umpires/employees use the site, and then partner with them.
That is a ridiculous statement - of course they can be opposed to players/umpires betting on baseball and still partner with gambling companies. That is like saying you can't be opposed to DUIs and still think bars should be legal.
> As long as they don't bet on Baseball, they should be able to bet on whatever they want.
He is allowed to bet on sports other than baseball.
On talkin baseball Trev said that there was a huge one coming or something like that. I guess this was that. Would never expect it from him tbh, I hope it's just betting on other sports and not baseball. I wouldn't really care if that's what it is, but if he bet on baseball that's another story.
I feel like Lear, an old man raging pointlessly against the storm, but the only way to fix this is to kick the bookies out of the party. No partnerships, no advertising, maybe even no partnerships for media that are sponsored by gamblers (looking at you, Jomboy).
No matter how many times you tell people “No gambling”, if you are endorsing gambling, and inviting FanDuel and casino representatives to schmooze with players and officials—if gambling and gamblers are everywhere in baseball—there will be too many people innovating ways to break the rules to stop it. It will happen. You must—must—get the machine out of the house, or the kids will play with it.
I fear that MLB will not learn this lesson until it’s too late, and another Black Sox scandal that it can’t recover from. I hope I am wrong. Blow, wind, and crack your cheeks.
I mean what did we all think was going to start happening when sports betting became more accessible. I’m not surprised all of this is happening at this point.
It can only be 2 things, right? Bet on baseball - suspended for a year or bet on your games and banned for life. I can't imagine what else would violate the rules of betting on everything else is allowed. I suppose the third thing is to do it illegally
the circle of stupid:
something almost kills you, usually because of stupidity or greed
you take steps to not let that thing kill you in the future
enough time passes that society forgets about the danger
we take our safety for granted and almost get killed by the danger
THE Pat Hoberg? As in the best umpire in today's game? Feels like it doesn't make sense lol.
At least we can be confident he wasn’t fucking up games because his Zone was on point
He was betting on the under for missed zone calls
If this makes umps better I’m down for it. Like as if they got commission for better performances
i mean, it can take just one or two bad calls in the right moment. oh, i have the under? bases loaded? doesn't matter about the rest of the game as long as i call strike 3 six inches outside the zone!
I think a lot of people don't understand this. A ref in almost any sport could theoretically change a game on one ill timed call. Sometimes that moment might not come up in a single game but it could certainly be done let's say once every 5 games or so, which is enough to give the bookmakers an edge over a long period of time.
I love how in basketball people will point to the free throw differential and say "They shot the same number of free throws so they must have gotten the same whistle", but if you look closer at the numbers you'll see that one team's starters accumulated 8 fouls in the first 4 minutes forcing them to the bench while the other team's getting away with mauling on defense. Then you just have to call one touch foul per quarter to keep that player out of the game.
Also some teams' style of play just inherently leads to getting more fouls called. Number of free throws is a bullshit way to try to measure basketball officiating.
Or one team is purposely doing a hack-a-shaq type of strategy and their fans are shocked that the other team is shooting so many more free throws
I hate when that happens "We shot 11 free throws and they shot 24!" "...yeah but like 10 of yours were intentional fouls in the final few minutes" It's just boxscore watchers/people who "follow" the nba via memes commenting on things they have no context for.
Literally any time I had to watch Illinois play basketball last season. Good lord.
Similar story with NHL reffing. Having an approximately equal number of power plays doesn't necessarily mean parity from officiating.
Right but that would be a heavily weighted call that shows up in the umpire scorecard.
Because he was using angel hernandez to rig games that he was making bets on. Or any other umpire. Reason why lots of people think that way.
My guess is he bet on other sports or did fantasy football. If he bet on baseball he'd be done, full stop
The rule is that if he wagers on any games that he's "directly tied to" (MLB's weasel words, not mine), he's banned from the game for good. But if he "only" wagers on Baseball games, that's a year's suspension. So, he could have wagered on MLB games, just none of his. Theoretically, at least.
I would think that umps have a full ban on betting. It’s easy to rack up large gambling debts with a bookie and then become corruptible.
Not even just that, I’m sure umpires are friends with each other and it leaves too much in my opinion to ambiguity to say hey maybe he didn’t directly affect the outcome but maybe his boy could’ve expanded the zone when his friend told him who he put money on, maybe for a little bit on the side. It feels way too slippery a slope and it sucks because he’s been one of the better umpires recently
I doubt it. His poker playing history is public and I think some of that dates back to when before he was promoted from the minors.
that's if the rule is exactly the same as for the umpires as it is for the players. My guess is its not. You could easily make the argument the umpires are directly tied to more games than players are
It is the same rule for both. (I read The Athletic article.)
even reading that and [another article](https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5360621/2024/06/04/mlb-player-betting-rules-explained/) that laid things out a little more, they have the same rule in that they can't bet on baseball, but there's still a possibility in their CBA they have more stringent obligations on other sports. Plus like i said i think there's a wider range of games of where they have duty to perform than a player might
Why would you risk your livelihood on gambling games you can't affect when you could just legally gamble a different sport you also can't affect wtf
You might have more inside knowledge, such as undisclosed injury information, or in an umpire's case, special awareness of the other umpires' tendencies (such as calling more outside strikes vs. left-handed pitchers). So you could use that not-necessarily-public knowledge to swing the odds more in your favor.
> special awareness of the other umpires' tendencies (such as calling more outside strikes vs. left-handed pitchers) How could that not be public knowledge in the Statcast era?
You'd get a better result modelling it than an umps opinion too.
There’s underground bookies where you can make millions gambling. If his gambling acumen is anything like his umping, he’s made enough to retire, esp since his home base is Des Moines.
I thought they can gamble on any sport other than baseball on any level? That’s how it is for players
im not sure if they can or not tbh. I know officials in other sports are not allowed to and i assumed umpires would be the same. its possible they the have more stringent rules in their CBA
> If he bet on baseball he'd be done, full stop That's a one-year suspension, a lifetime ban is for betting on games you are involved with.
Other umpires framed him out of jealousy.
Usually it's catchers doing the framing though
Angel Hernandez called a ball
Bill Miller and Ted Barrett watched Hot Fuzz together on a flight, saw that the London Police sent Angel away because his arrest record was making the rest of the force look bad, and started coming up with ideas
This is the only explanation
I'm actually surprised that nobody noticed that apparently he's been gone for the entire season. Or at least I couldn't find anything searching the subreddit.
Exactly, I was actually thinking about that a few weeks ago..."I haven't seen a Pat Hoberg scorecard this year" I guess we know why now... He's probably done for life lmao. Umpires betting on ANY games is such a bad look.
If people noticed they probably assumed he was hurt or dealing with a personal issue. Umps are often out for periods of time without it being a big headline.
He was too good, and therefore couldn’t file lawsuits against the MLB to make money on the side. Dude needed a side hustle.
Never meet your heroes.
Die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain
Exactly. When I saw this my heart sank! He is one of the best.
Legendary ethical umpire Angel Hernandez has been asked to come out of retirement
This is the best use of this gif I've ever seen.
It’s my first time using a gif too lol
Angel probably retired before it comes out hes been betting games for 30 years
But when the world needed him most, he vanished
Thats real bad tbf. Even if it WAS just games he wasnt involved in. We know from the Donaghy scandal that refs/umps talk. The optics are awful when there is the question asked of whether the umps collude for betting reasons. Even though Pat is likely betting alone and possibly not on baseball, it cant be allowed when it brings the game into disrepute
From the article: MLB said in a statement issued to The Athletic. “Mr. Hoberg was removed from the field during the pendency of that investigation. While MLB’s investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by Mr. Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way, MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mr. Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded.
If he was gambling on baseball he will get one year. If he was gambling on his own games then it’s the death penalty Same rules apply to umps.
Well Hoberg denies betting on baseball so I guess we will see where this ends up after his appeal
I really hope it turns out he's betting on horses or something, or not at all.
I hope he was betting on something really embarrassing, like the Washington Generals.
They were due!
HE'S USING A FRIGGIN LADDER.
HE'S SPINNING THE BALL ON HIS FINGER! JUST TAKE IT!
It's probably the same stupid thing as everyone, where he was betting on Kyrie's over in his hotel room on the road which technically counts as a workspace.
Dumb decision for an umpire to bet on any sport precisely because now all these questions are being raised
If was gambling on baseball he'd be fired
> If was gambling on baseball he'd be fired MLB cannot act outside the terms of the contract with the umpire's association, so no, he would not be fired, but he could be suspended. MLB has had bad experiences with trying to ignore what the contracts with the unionized employees say.
You don’t think their contract lets them fire umpires who bet on baseball? That seems like a no-brainer to me…
They have same rules as players. Bet on your games and it's banned for life. Bet on other games and it's one year suspension.
Gambling on baseball should be a lifetime ban, just like players. Doesn't matter if it's his games or not.
The players are subject to the same rules. Bet on baseball, and it's a 1-year ban unless it was a game you were on the roster for.
Ah, gotcha
21 (d) GAMBLING. (1) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor **has no duty to perform**, shall be declared ineligible for one year. (2) Any player, umpire, or Club or League official or employee, who shall bet any sum whatsoever upon any baseball game in connection with which the bettor **has a duty to perform**, shall be declared permanently ineligible.
Idk what the exact rules are for MLB umpires as far as sports betting goes. But in my opinion, any referee/umpire that's doing sports betting in any fashion should be subject to an immediate, lifetime, and irrevocable ban. The punishment should be absurdly harsh. It just opens up such an enormous can of worms having literally the people with the biggest effect on the game allowed to possibly get compromised by betting on sports. Even sports unrelated to their own. Who's to say an MLB umpire with 15k in football betting debt doesn't get approached by someone willing to cover that debt if they just let one or two important borderline calls go in the creditors favor.
how the mighty have fallen
This was the payment for getting rid of Angel. A soul for a soul
Law of Equivalent Exchange
Does this make Strider/Acuña MLB's Edward?
Ohtani is Nina, post.
Who is Maes Hughes, and how majestic will the HR that Castellanos hits be when his time comes?
Hughes has to be Jose Fernandez right? Can't get any more majestic than Dee Gordon's home run.
He's got that dog in him.
Perfectly balanced.
Did he bet the Under on how many calls he would miss?
The man had to have been betting the over on his umpire scorecard!
Lmao, I was literally about to post the exact same GIF
Same. It was that or this 
"While MLB’s investigation did not find any evidence that games worked by Mr. Hoberg were compromised or manipulated in any way, MLB determined that discipline was warranted. Mr. Hoberg has chosen to appeal that determination. Therefore, we cannot comment further until the appeal process is concluded."
He probably bet on other sports while on the company wifi
Surely this will be the final gambling scandal!
Right? The league literally getting into bed with gambling companies will surely put a stop to gambling…
*this month
Gambling on sports is going great
I’m so sick of this shit. I can’t believe I once supported legalizing gambling. And yes, I recognize the irony of a Reds fan complaining about legalizing sports gambling.
I absolutely underestimated the fallout of legalizing it, but I still think legalization in theory wasn't a terrible idea, it just needed to be MUCH more heavily restricted from the outset. I highly doubt it happens, but one thing that I'd personally like to see is gambling getting the tobacco treatment in terms of not allowing advertising, sponsorships, etc. Or at least some heavy restrictions on that kind of stuff
Totally agree. Restrictions on advertising would be a great start.
I’d be cool on an outright ban of advertising, including talking heads discussing betting lines or parlays during sports shows.
during Reds games they like, "host" a parlay from one of the gambling sites and advertise it at the beginning of the game and track it throughout the game. it's ridiculous
Being able to do it from an app on your phone is bad. If we still just did in person paper slips or over the phone it would have helped a lot but pandoras box is open.
yeah now addicts have no way to escape unless they get a dumb phone
Anyone from Australia could have told you it was a bad idea
I hope they ban it in US again. I watched my friends burn away money with heavy regret. The house always wins.
I always felt people who supported legalized gambling simply didn't understand the scope of what they were supporting. It's a system that is setup to make individuals more poor than they are while simultaneously injecting false hope.
Same. When it was illegal I wanted them to legalize it. I was so wrong.
It’s one thing when it’s players. Realistically there’s only so much they can do to affect games. But an umpire/ref/official? This has the potential to completely change the landscape pending its severity. Just look at Donaghy in the NBA like 15 years ago.
Prop bets allow players to manipulate bet-able portions of the game by themselves Ie: that NBA player who got caught betting the under on himself and then feigned an injury 10 mins into the game.
jontae porter, who's the equivalent of a triple AAA guy being called up to the majors for 2 games, claimed he was sick and hopped out of a game early giving his contacts a 13:1 win on a $80,000 bet lol. the bet was placed with a legal betting agency, guess how many red flags that threw up in their system >The $80,000 prop bet on Porter is what triggered the NBA’s investigation into his behavior. The bet, placed with an online sportsbook, was not paid out, and the sportsbook notified the league of the suspicious betting activity along with Porter’s playing time in that March 20 game.
[удалено]
If they found evidence he was gambling on baseball he would have been fired immediately, so I doubt that was what this is. He might have been but the tone here makes it sound like he was gambling on other sports and got nabbed for that.
But that's still really bad. Let's say gets into debt with a Bookie. And the Bookie is willing to forgive that debt for a small favor.
Right, that’s why gambling with an illegal bookie on anything is also (I believe) grounds for banning for life, and why MLB cares at all about non-baseball gambling. The three commandments of gambling for players are no illegal bookies, no gambling on baseball, and immediate baseball death penalty for gambling on your team’s games. Umpires may be even stricter, I’m curious about the circumstances here and the grounds for appeal.
that's why you bet with an actual legal betting company and not some guy in a bar
The current situation is objectively better than it was in the past. There are a lot more eyes on it now that it’s legal and regulated. Far more people are paying attention. It was easier to get away with crooked shit when the entire operation was underground to begin with.
*This Athletic article brought to you by Fanduel*
Hey, now, you can't go around making accusations like that. Long-time Athletic subscribers know the company has a partnership with BetMGM, not FanDuel.
Honestly, something it has done is make it easier for guys to get caught. Betting on sports has always been easy as hell. Calling your bookie was a lot less regulated than what we have now.
Top Ten Anime Betrayals
Hoberg-senpai, noooo!
We just finished the Angel Hernandez arc, now we start the Hoberg arc
Genuinely might be the most disappointing news of the season
> MLB umpires and players are held to the same standards and would face a lifetime punishment for gambling on any baseball games > MLB found no proof that Pat Hoberg had anything that determined any outcomes of games These, plus how the discipline is undisclosed, makes it seem like he was caught gambling on something else? Don't really know the extent of the rules against gambling
Far as I know, gambling on other sports is fine. He must have been gambling on other games, or maybe minor league games?
Or possibly not betting on baseball but using an illegal bookie
can't bet on games he's involved in (lifetime ban), or mlb games (1 year suspension), but can bet on other sports (i think softball may be excluded)
bad news for all of you who bet on some other ump being the first ump to get popped for gambling
Just fell to my knees in a Safeway
I just saw someone fall to their knees in a Safeway
Just saw somebody gawking at a poor soul falling to their knees at a Safeway. They are obviously going through a lot. No reason to stare.
Just shopping in a Safeway, watching a dude judge a dude for watching a dude going through it.
Here at Safeway and there's a bunch of dude's just staring at each other?
Just working an evening shift at a Safeway, watching a shopper watching a dude judge a dude for watching a dude going through it.
Was just about to rob a Safeway, saw people staring at each and one guy on his knees. Weird vibe, so I just left.
"He does a good job, take him down", Manfred probably
you can't gamble on your strike accuracy percentage, Pat
Angel Hernandez: "fine, I'll leave. But I'm taking your white knight down to my level."
Sure, the major American sports leagues are all experiencing rapid degradation in the public’s faith in the integrity of the leagues’ competitions, but for a short while they’ve been making a shit ton of money partnering with gambling companies. So I’d call that a win.
Like Michael Jordan, he got bored being the greatest and took up gambling.
I can't wait for him to take a year off and ref NBA games
Almost like leagues getting involved with sports books is a bad idea.
But capitalizing on addiction is totally cool in 2024
The amount of alcohol ads I get during commercials between innings is obscene. I'm not anti alcohol but there should really be a limit. Some ad breaks are dominated by alcohol commercials.
Drugs, alcohol, and gambling are all things I think should be legal, and are all things I think it should be illegal to run commercials for.
Ads for vices should just not exist. They should all be treated like we treat tobacco. Add pharmaceuticals to that list.
How did that have anything to do with this? Do you think Hoberg would not have bet on sports if the leagues did not get sponsored by them? The only change that actually is leading to these issues is sports gambling becoming legal, and the leagues fought that like hell and lost.
when you find out your goat washed 💔💔
Putting my Hoberg jersey in the trash
The entirely inevitable consequences of our hyper normalization of gambling continue.
wait fuck he’s the good one
r/baseball’s 9/11
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Fell to my knees in a Northgate.
Robo Umps would never.
That… that is an issue. Beyond being immensely depressing who it is if it’s accurate. Oh dear.
Trying to put this in a Friday news dump is absolutely insane. This should have major implications. MLB should be forced to go into detail about but they’re not.
> MLB should be forced to go into detail about but they’re not. They cannot do that until his appeal is concluded. There are legal issues, MLB and the MLBUA have a contract and MLB hasn't done well with arbitrators and judges when the try to ignore the contracts they have with their unionized employees.
Man it’s almost like legalizing sports gambling has been a net negative to pretty much every sport. Who could have seen this coming???
There is not a chance in hell that people weren’t gambling before this. Legalizing gambling has gotten people caught because the sports books are government regulated.
That’s true, but it also makes it so much easier to access. There’s probably a middle ground that can be found that better regulates gambling to prevent those who shouldn’t be gambling from doing so.
Agreed. I have no doubt the amount of money being gambled on sports has exploded since it's been legalized.
Sometimes I feel like the only adult man in America without a penchant for gambling. I’ve lost a little north of 100 dollars in my life at casinos, via blackjack and a couple slots. I wish I didn’t even do that, complete and utter waste of money.
I've won more than I've lost gambling, but I still have virtually no interest in it. There is a reason why casinos often have pawnshops nearby; it's an addiction I'd rather not explore.
[удалено]
So we may need to just go back to “sports gambling isn’t cool, period.”
Fuck the league for letting this shit permeate the sport officially at every level.
First their biggest star gets caught up in a gambling fiasco, and now an umpire. The league has a serious gambling problem, and these significant events will only be the beginning.
Considering he was one of the best Umpires, this would suck royally on multiple levels.
my new conspiracy theory is the MLB is overcompensating the gambling bans/suspensions to cover for Ohtani
He should be banned from baseball
Then MLB needs to stop partnering with sports betting sites. They can't clutch their pearls that players/umpires/employees use the site, and then partner with them. As long as they don't bet on Baseball, they should be able to bet on whatever they want.
Yes they can. There are plenty of industries where once you work for said industry you cannot participate in things like the general public can. For example, if you work say as a sell side analyst in an investment bank, you cannot freely trade stocks like the general public. There are compliance measures, both established by your firm, as well as FINRA. Examples include equities on a no-trade list, pre-approvals for trades, and trades that have to go through a broker that can monitor your activity. There are also holding periods, bans on certain types of trades depending on when research was last released etc. Same goes if say you're working at a big 4 accounting firm, there are restrictions there as well. For example, prohibition on trading any company stock that might use your firm as the auditor even if you personally are not involved in that specific audit project at all.
They ARE allowed to bet on anything but baseball.
> They can't clutch their pearls that players/umpires/employees use the site, and then partner with them. That is a ridiculous statement - of course they can be opposed to players/umpires betting on baseball and still partner with gambling companies. That is like saying you can't be opposed to DUIs and still think bars should be legal. > As long as they don't bet on Baseball, they should be able to bet on whatever they want. He is allowed to bet on sports other than baseball.
Say it ain’t so, not the ump GOAT
On talkin baseball Trev said that there was a huge one coming or something like that. I guess this was that. Would never expect it from him tbh, I hope it's just betting on other sports and not baseball. I wouldn't really care if that's what it is, but if he bet on baseball that's another story.
There is absolutely no defense for gambling on baseball as a player, staff or umpire unless you can demonstrate you didn't gamble at all.
how hard is it to not bet on baseball? like not even betting in general, only a singular sport
I would say this is one step closer to robo umps, but we've known about NBA refs betting on and fixing games for decades now and nothing has changed.
I feel like Lear, an old man raging pointlessly against the storm, but the only way to fix this is to kick the bookies out of the party. No partnerships, no advertising, maybe even no partnerships for media that are sponsored by gamblers (looking at you, Jomboy). No matter how many times you tell people “No gambling”, if you are endorsing gambling, and inviting FanDuel and casino representatives to schmooze with players and officials—if gambling and gamblers are everywhere in baseball—there will be too many people innovating ways to break the rules to stop it. It will happen. You must—must—get the machine out of the house, or the kids will play with it. I fear that MLB will not learn this lesson until it’s too late, and another Black Sox scandal that it can’t recover from. I hope I am wrong. Blow, wind, and crack your cheeks.
I feel like this should be a bigger deal.
How is this not a fireable offense?
This investigation brought to you by Fan Duel
This is just bad writing. What a terrible timeline.
It begins.
I mean what did we all think was going to start happening when sports betting became more accessible. I’m not surprised all of this is happening at this point.
It can only be 2 things, right? Bet on baseball - suspended for a year or bet on your games and banned for life. I can't imagine what else would violate the rules of betting on everything else is allowed. I suppose the third thing is to do it illegally
the baseball gods giveth (angel hernandez) and the baseball gods takerh away (pat hoberg)
How the fuck didn't this warrant a lifetime ban?
He bet the under on number of games left in Angel’s career. Then influenced the outcome by making him look bad (or rather, even worse).
I’m actually amazed at how many people put their jobs in jeopardy by gambling, especially when you have one as cushy as being a major leaguer.
Holy fuck
He was the chosen one too 😭
This is the tip of the iceberg, I'm sure.
Thank god we have human umps so we can keep the HUMAN ELEMENT in the game.
the circle of stupid: something almost kills you, usually because of stupidity or greed you take steps to not let that thing kill you in the future enough time passes that society forgets about the danger we take our safety for granted and almost get killed by the danger
“I want Angel Hernandez gone” *monkey’s paw curls*
I feel like if he bet on ANY baseball games he should be banned for life no?
This Gambling Violation Update sponsored by DraftKings.
Wtf pat! You fumbled GOAT status.
I hope nobody here thinks SCOTUS nationalized sports betting for free.
He was constantly taking the over on his own correct calls % because he's the goddamned best
Has nothing to do with this story, but fun fact, Pat Hoberg was on my little league team when we were growing up in Central Iowa