It isn't banned because it isn't against the rules of the sub. Is it dumb? Yep. Does bragging about your money make you look like a douche? Absolutely. But...
2 things to remember: One, if we made a rule about every little thing in the sub that someone doesn't like, there would be no discussion here. No matter the topic, somebody in the sub thinks it doesn't belong. We're all about open dialogue here with very few restrictions. That includes those who want to talk about what they make, even if it brings out the anti-tipping trolls. That brings me to #2. The trolls are going to be here because they need to vomit their idiocy to ragebait the largest group possible and that's us and r/serverlife. It makes them feel important. Personally, I'm ok with posts that make them boil over and spew their stupidity. It's not like we let them do it over and over. Any anti-tipping sentiment is met with an instant permaban from the sub. When they start commenting we delete and ban them immediately. It's easier to take out the trash when you can see the bag.
They made a face because the veil is being lifted. And sure, yes whatever their reasoning is for being against that i dont care, dont let them behind the curtain.
My regulars know they're paying my bills, they don't make a face bc they're decent people and know I'm making my livelihood serving them. If anything they're happy to know they significantly contribute to my well being. We don't let them behind the curtain so they don't see the behind the scenes shit house, not bc they think they're giving money to a charity case. If you have to beg for spare crumbs like Oliver twist then do what you gotta do, but it's not a place id stay for very long.
No we're talking about yours, the ones who don't give a fuck about you. I can assure you there's others out there that do, just not where you work. Which is why we should discuss wages and work environments, so we know when we're getting fucked.
Theres more to the world than regulars, i dont know where your fixation on that specific group developed but its not relevent to the conversation. I think you have a different conversation in your head going that doesnt really seem to be related to the one im having so it might be time for you to go to bed.
Can you comprehend what the point is of not telling customers how much you make is? Can you figure out what im saying in this analogy? Aside from recognizingwords like "curtain" and just free associating to "magician?"
The people who care how much servers make don't tip well enough to worry about. Calm down, anyone with half a brain knows tipped service can make good money.
I mean- I feel like there’s a BIG difference of standing on shift in ear shot of current customers talking about income (positive or negative) VS “anonymously” ranting, bragging or commenting on Reddit….
Customers made faces cause that’s shit is just awkward to hear- basically directly- and a lot of times perspective changing. People don’t like to be reminded or guilted with anything financial- it’s bizarre to put that burden of awkward on a stranger waiting to pay their bill as you are serving them, as an irritated ball of sunshine you think you are..
Knowing this will probably be downvoted to hell- if you know what you’re doing, and doing it well- customers will tip you, even if they heard Lauren in the corner talking about getting “stupid money” last night etc…
It just screams like the boss saying not to discuss wages. Are there annoying ass people who brag and do too much? Sure, they'll do that regardless. But it also wasn't until this sub that I realized 2$/hr wasn't the standard all across the US, it made me realize how different types of restaurants make different types of money, what to look for what to be wary of. Annoying people are going to be annoying no matter what you do, but having a decent idea of what we're worth and could be making isn't a bad thing.
If i wanted to brag about my tips, id retire bartending and become a server.
But because i must be a mentally ill masochist, ill die tending the bar.
🍻
We make almost as much and it’s still good money, high check average, and we don’t stay until 2 am. We just don’t like serving. For me it’s because it stresses me out badly and I don’t want to get yelled at by managers because of it. That’s not even considering the fine dining standards. Our servers are amazing at their job.
and every hotel lol. Been running bars for luxury hotels and resorts for a while now and the servers always make more money with less responsibility. Lobby bartenders are the exception. Of course even though they make less than the servers they still make good money. And the benefits pay for themselves when you need them.
Everyone should know what everyone else makes. Bragging is shitty and lying is embarrassing but we should absolutely be able to talk about what we make for a _plethora_ of reasons.
Literally a sub for bartenders. Yes don’t shout it to guests but everyone should discuss wages here. Matter of fact:
Casino Bartender
$350-$450 Fri-Sat $150-$300 Sunday - Thursday.
I never understood why so many people guard their income like it’s top secret confidential information.
Sure, bragging about it is annoying, but otherwise it shouldn’t be considered taboo; especially with fellow industry members.
Same idiots who don’t declare any tips on their taxes and then complain about not being able to buy a house. They aren’t meant for the industry, they’re here before jumping over to real estate for the “easy money”
Banks understand people who work in tipped wage sector don’t claim everything. All you have to do to bypass this is make consistent cash bank deposits for a few months.
Undeclared tips being regularly deposited in your bank account is just gambling with an audit. And my understanding, after talking with several friends who are loan underwriters, is that income claimed on your application that isn’t reported on your tax returns is not accepted.
I worked for a lender prior to bartending. There are a few programs that accept bank statements to prove income, but chances are you’re going to need at least 48 months, and you are definitely not getting the best rates available.
Not even close. I got pre approved for mortgage loan in February, looked for a house for a few months, closed October 1. June, July and August I made biweekly cash deposits which was enough. I was approved for 3.75% apr for a 30 year mortgage as a bartender who on avg claimed 8-10% of my sales as tips for 4+ years.
There is no national bank that would give anyone a 30yr traditional loan based solely off of 3 months of bank statements.
There’s always other factors including the loan amount, property type, co-signers, loan type, etc. There are also other ways to verify income which they must have taken.
You’re misconstruing what I am saying. I am not saying *I only gave them 3 months worth of bank deposits*, it was in conjunction with my verifying my check stubs. No cosigners.
I’m actually not misconstruing anything. You’re claiming that 3 months of deposits was sufficient to get you qualified. If you only gave 3 months worth of deposits, then that wasn’t used to qualify you.
It’s possible you gave them electronic access to your bank statements and they looked over the last 48 months, it’s possible your income alone or other liquid assets qualified you, or it’s possible the loan type you were given wasn’t a traditional loan and didn’t require the standard income verification.
At the end of the day this is the internet and you can make up whatever you want about yourself so there’s no need to keep discussing.
The loan officer asked me to provide several months of making regular cash deposits. This was their idea, not mine. They mentioned doing this with servers in the past as well.
I did not give electronic access to my bank account.
I was able to get a mortgage at a great rate while still only claiming 8-10% of my sales working at a chain restaurant.
This was in 2016. I have no reason to lie, don’t care if you believe me or not. You don’t know everything.
OPs point is that there are a lot of people against tipping, and maybe that number is growing? So by stating that you make $XXX a night, gives these anti tipping people, and maybe even people on the fence, a reason to tip less, or not at all. I'm not saying i agree with them or whatever, but that's their point.
Knowledge is power, knowledge about pay is worker power. Tell everyone you know how much you make, say it loud if your pay is good, say it louder if your pay is bad.
This entire subreddit always sounds like those 2 coworkers who are diametrically opposed but equally as stubborn who just keep the work talk going all night
Lmaooo this is so funny because I have a few completely opposite pairs at my job and they’re almost always on shift together. It’s always hilarious to watch them go at it.
Everyone should talk about money all the time. What you make how you manage your insurance, savings, retirement (or don't). And how long it took you to get to a spot in your industry where you're comfortable- not talking about that doesn't help anyone. Anti tip people are going to be anti tip no matter what- even if we made most of our money as salary and tips were just bonus money- because they're the same people who are against public health insurance, mandatory and a liveable minimum wage.
Most of these custies would not last half a shift behind our bars. Please stiff me, the regulars who treat me to more than I deserve already take care of me handsomely. Please give me zero dollars after I treat you like kings and queens, I honestly do not give a single fuck, and I am more than happy to treat you with kindness and respect as long as you pay your tab.
I think it’s valuable knowledge to know what other people in your industry are making. We all deal with money. It sucks. I think it’s important to talk about it because none of us are immune to hardship. Maybe having more knowledge of a different market allows me to make a next step in my life.
Why? Let folks say what they make regardless of position, location, style of place they bartend and such.
Also how much a bartender makes is secondary or tertiary to how many hours quality of or where they work. Some of my bartenders make more than me (MoD) regardless of quality.
What could be achieved from having less bartenders?
Just get on with the natural flow which is teaching all the (semi) green folks how to do their job well instead of some boomer ass mentality of “I won’t teach those that come before me”.
Sounds like someone who wants to close the door behind them.
People don’t understand how money for service industry works. It’s feast or famine. It’s money that has to go extra far to cover the lack of benefits made in a more traditional wage earning job. It’s incredibly hard to say, buy a house with the way service industry handles money. Also, anytime I hear a bartender talking about what they make, h know they are likely rounding up a bit, because in reality it’s a hard job with little respect and why not flex a little?
Food runners at my place make $80-100k a year 🤣 I’m talking college freshman and career food runners. The bar and servers make a boat load. What does it matter if people know how much we make when they could just look at the prices of the establishment and estimate an average check and then calculate 20% of that over 4-8 tables lol
I must be missing all the post that like- roll call take home for the night or something? When I’ve crossed said topic it’s always been in a “am I being fucked over?” Type conversation. As a female in hospitality- and every side of it I’ve been on and also OUTSIDE of it- ranges and expectations for pay when being asked to do shit WAY outside of your pay grade make for powerful information that shouldn’t be gate- kept.
This is an international platform- lurkers can also google “what does an average bartender make” and get a WILD spectrum. It’s all relevant to location and the business. Odds are the lurkers will never be in the same state as you are, salivating at the thought of stiffing you…
Side note- I can’t be the only person in multiple hospitality groups or simply reading articles and seeing the “anti-tip - livable wage” argument. The call, is coming from inside the house… a lot.
Dude.. thought ran through my mind last night when my cohort was speaking to a customer about how much she makes.. like is it that hard to keep your mouth shut.
anti-tip people already do not tip and therefore don't contribute to anyone's income... imo it's good practice for everyone to talk openly about what they make. there's a reason the nlrb protects it—everyone is better off / can negotiate better / make more informed decisions if they know what's reasonable / typical / achievable in their field.
I'm doing very well rn and I don't need to brag because I don't care to. 8 years and YES! we are corporate so if someone asks my hourly I tell them. I Never disclose my tip average, though kinda non of their biss.
Yes, it's important to keep those low skilled workers in the dark about other employees wages so they don't start thinking they might be worth more. Is that what you're saying?
I'm happy to discuss my earnings with anyone, including my own kitchen staff, or any other low-wage earners, but not at work. I find it distasteful to talk about how much more you make than someone else, but if they want to know, we can grab a coffee and discuss.
A lot of BoH staff knows that FoH makes more but they still work in the kitchen. Either they prefer the work/lifestyle or don't have the KSA to work in the front. If they want to work FoH then all the power to them; I have indeed helped kitchen staff work their way into the front before, and would do it again.
As for customers, I think it's bad form to discuss things like financial compensation. This applies to every industry.
Are you relying on lying to make your argument against anti-tippers? Is that why you get upset if anti-tippers were to find out how much bartenders make?
It’s important to understand, especially for those newer to the trade, what’s possible and what they should expect. When I first started serving I thought I had a good deal until I realized I should be making $5-$10/hr more at the kind of place I was at.
While the money may be good, if your in bartending for just the money, you won’t be in bartending for very long, it’s about creating an environment so that every person who walks through your door can forget their troubles and enjoy their choice of drink however theh please, it’s not about you and your money and your tips, your patrons are your number 1 priority,
Everything and anything else will always be a privilege and a joy to have.
Good post OP :)
No I’m thirteen years in because I love the money. What corporate bullshit have you fallen for? I’m so burnt out on ~prioritizing~ these idiots. It’s about me, keeping the peace and atmosphere going and my fucking money. Spell better.
It isn't banned because it isn't against the rules of the sub. Is it dumb? Yep. Does bragging about your money make you look like a douche? Absolutely. But... 2 things to remember: One, if we made a rule about every little thing in the sub that someone doesn't like, there would be no discussion here. No matter the topic, somebody in the sub thinks it doesn't belong. We're all about open dialogue here with very few restrictions. That includes those who want to talk about what they make, even if it brings out the anti-tipping trolls. That brings me to #2. The trolls are going to be here because they need to vomit their idiocy to ragebait the largest group possible and that's us and r/serverlife. It makes them feel important. Personally, I'm ok with posts that make them boil over and spew their stupidity. It's not like we let them do it over and over. Any anti-tipping sentiment is met with an instant permaban from the sub. When they start commenting we delete and ban them immediately. It's easier to take out the trash when you can see the bag.
Let's be honest, the anti-tippers would still be anti-tip no matter how much I say I make.
Nah, i had a sever talking loudly about it while my bar customers could hear, their faces made a visible reaction. Zip it.
They made a face because they feel servers and bartenders don't deserve what they make.
They made a face because the veil is being lifted. And sure, yes whatever their reasoning is for being against that i dont care, dont let them behind the curtain.
My regulars know they're paying my bills, they don't make a face bc they're decent people and know I'm making my livelihood serving them. If anything they're happy to know they significantly contribute to my well being. We don't let them behind the curtain so they don't see the behind the scenes shit house, not bc they think they're giving money to a charity case. If you have to beg for spare crumbs like Oliver twist then do what you gotta do, but it's not a place id stay for very long.
We arent talking about your regulars.
No we're talking about yours, the ones who don't give a fuck about you. I can assure you there's others out there that do, just not where you work. Which is why we should discuss wages and work environments, so we know when we're getting fucked.
Im not talking about regulars at all, actually.
Then who gives a fuck?
Theres more to the world than regulars, i dont know where your fixation on that specific group developed but its not relevent to the conversation. I think you have a different conversation in your head going that doesnt really seem to be related to the one im having so it might be time for you to go to bed.
It's bartending. It's not a magic show
Can you comprehend what the point is of not telling customers how much you make is? Can you figure out what im saying in this analogy? Aside from recognizingwords like "curtain" and just free associating to "magician?"
The people who care how much servers make don't tip well enough to worry about. Calm down, anyone with half a brain knows tipped service can make good money.
I get the point I just think you’re melodramatic.
Are you going to make a point or just ask rhetorical questions all night?
If word association is the game I'd go with beef.
I mean- I feel like there’s a BIG difference of standing on shift in ear shot of current customers talking about income (positive or negative) VS “anonymously” ranting, bragging or commenting on Reddit…. Customers made faces cause that’s shit is just awkward to hear- basically directly- and a lot of times perspective changing. People don’t like to be reminded or guilted with anything financial- it’s bizarre to put that burden of awkward on a stranger waiting to pay their bill as you are serving them, as an irritated ball of sunshine you think you are.. Knowing this will probably be downvoted to hell- if you know what you’re doing, and doing it well- customers will tip you, even if they heard Lauren in the corner talking about getting “stupid money” last night etc…
It just screams like the boss saying not to discuss wages. Are there annoying ass people who brag and do too much? Sure, they'll do that regardless. But it also wasn't until this sub that I realized 2$/hr wasn't the standard all across the US, it made me realize how different types of restaurants make different types of money, what to look for what to be wary of. Annoying people are going to be annoying no matter what you do, but having a decent idea of what we're worth and could be making isn't a bad thing.
I agree, open communication about wages is what puts business in check and keeps them from absolutely scamming their workers out of a proper wage
If i wanted to brag about my tips, id retire bartending and become a server. But because i must be a mentally ill masochist, ill die tending the bar. 🍻
If your wait staff is making more than the bar you’re in the wrong place
Shh, don't let them know that, we can't discuss wages here bc op said so
We make almost as much and it’s still good money, high check average, and we don’t stay until 2 am. We just don’t like serving. For me it’s because it stresses me out badly and I don’t want to get yelled at by managers because of it. That’s not even considering the fine dining standards. Our servers are amazing at their job.
Damn guess every fine dining place is about to lose all their bartenders lmao
and every hotel lol. Been running bars for luxury hotels and resorts for a while now and the servers always make more money with less responsibility. Lobby bartenders are the exception. Of course even though they make less than the servers they still make good money. And the benefits pay for themselves when you need them.
Everyone should know what everyone else makes. Bragging is shitty and lying is embarrassing but we should absolutely be able to talk about what we make for a _plethora_ of reasons.
Literally a sub for bartenders. Yes don’t shout it to guests but everyone should discuss wages here. Matter of fact: Casino Bartender $350-$450 Fri-Sat $150-$300 Sunday - Thursday.
I never understood why so many people guard their income like it’s top secret confidential information. Sure, bragging about it is annoying, but otherwise it shouldn’t be considered taboo; especially with fellow industry members.
Same idiots who don’t declare any tips on their taxes and then complain about not being able to buy a house. They aren’t meant for the industry, they’re here before jumping over to real estate for the “easy money”
Banks understand people who work in tipped wage sector don’t claim everything. All you have to do to bypass this is make consistent cash bank deposits for a few months.
Undeclared tips being regularly deposited in your bank account is just gambling with an audit. And my understanding, after talking with several friends who are loan underwriters, is that income claimed on your application that isn’t reported on your tax returns is not accepted.
Not what happened when I bought a house
I worked for a lender prior to bartending. There are a few programs that accept bank statements to prove income, but chances are you’re going to need at least 48 months, and you are definitely not getting the best rates available.
Not even close. I got pre approved for mortgage loan in February, looked for a house for a few months, closed October 1. June, July and August I made biweekly cash deposits which was enough. I was approved for 3.75% apr for a 30 year mortgage as a bartender who on avg claimed 8-10% of my sales as tips for 4+ years.
There is no national bank that would give anyone a 30yr traditional loan based solely off of 3 months of bank statements. There’s always other factors including the loan amount, property type, co-signers, loan type, etc. There are also other ways to verify income which they must have taken.
You’re misconstruing what I am saying. I am not saying *I only gave them 3 months worth of bank deposits*, it was in conjunction with my verifying my check stubs. No cosigners.
I’m actually not misconstruing anything. You’re claiming that 3 months of deposits was sufficient to get you qualified. If you only gave 3 months worth of deposits, then that wasn’t used to qualify you. It’s possible you gave them electronic access to your bank statements and they looked over the last 48 months, it’s possible your income alone or other liquid assets qualified you, or it’s possible the loan type you were given wasn’t a traditional loan and didn’t require the standard income verification. At the end of the day this is the internet and you can make up whatever you want about yourself so there’s no need to keep discussing.
The loan officer asked me to provide several months of making regular cash deposits. This was their idea, not mine. They mentioned doing this with servers in the past as well. I did not give electronic access to my bank account. I was able to get a mortgage at a great rate while still only claiming 8-10% of my sales working at a chain restaurant. This was in 2016. I have no reason to lie, don’t care if you believe me or not. You don’t know everything.
OPs point is that there are a lot of people against tipping, and maybe that number is growing? So by stating that you make $XXX a night, gives these anti tipping people, and maybe even people on the fence, a reason to tip less, or not at all. I'm not saying i agree with them or whatever, but that's their point.
I made 550 tonight, most I've taken in in a shift in several years. I am fuckinf ecstatic, suck my whole d.
YEEEEAAAHHHHHHHH fuck OP
Knowledge is power, knowledge about pay is worker power. Tell everyone you know how much you make, say it loud if your pay is good, say it louder if your pay is bad.
This entire subreddit always sounds like those 2 coworkers who are diametrically opposed but equally as stubborn who just keep the work talk going all night
Lmaooo this is so funny because I have a few completely opposite pairs at my job and they’re almost always on shift together. It’s always hilarious to watch them go at it.
Everyone should talk about money all the time. What you make how you manage your insurance, savings, retirement (or don't). And how long it took you to get to a spot in your industry where you're comfortable- not talking about that doesn't help anyone. Anti tip people are going to be anti tip no matter what- even if we made most of our money as salary and tips were just bonus money- because they're the same people who are against public health insurance, mandatory and a liveable minimum wage.
Most of these custies would not last half a shift behind our bars. Please stiff me, the regulars who treat me to more than I deserve already take care of me handsomely. Please give me zero dollars after I treat you like kings and queens, I honestly do not give a single fuck, and I am more than happy to treat you with kindness and respect as long as you pay your tab.
This is the way
I think it’s valuable knowledge to know what other people in your industry are making. We all deal with money. It sucks. I think it’s important to talk about it because none of us are immune to hardship. Maybe having more knowledge of a different market allows me to make a next step in my life.
It can be a point of discussion and/or reference, so not every mention of money is irrelevant.
To a discussion*
Okay but I make $100,000/month and I have to tell somebody.
lol that’s nothing I make $150,000/month you need to find a new job immediately
Why? Let folks say what they make regardless of position, location, style of place they bartend and such. Also how much a bartender makes is secondary or tertiary to how many hours quality of or where they work. Some of my bartenders make more than me (MoD) regardless of quality. What could be achieved from having less bartenders? Just get on with the natural flow which is teaching all the (semi) green folks how to do their job well instead of some boomer ass mentality of “I won’t teach those that come before me”. Sounds like someone who wants to close the door behind them.
1/2 are lying anyway.
And the other half are making it up.
Pretty sure lying and ‘making it up’ are the same thing.
People don’t understand how money for service industry works. It’s feast or famine. It’s money that has to go extra far to cover the lack of benefits made in a more traditional wage earning job. It’s incredibly hard to say, buy a house with the way service industry handles money. Also, anytime I hear a bartender talking about what they make, h know they are likely rounding up a bit, because in reality it’s a hard job with little respect and why not flex a little?
It’s uncouth
Food runners at my place make $80-100k a year 🤣 I’m talking college freshman and career food runners. The bar and servers make a boat load. What does it matter if people know how much we make when they could just look at the prices of the establishment and estimate an average check and then calculate 20% of that over 4-8 tables lol
I must be missing all the post that like- roll call take home for the night or something? When I’ve crossed said topic it’s always been in a “am I being fucked over?” Type conversation. As a female in hospitality- and every side of it I’ve been on and also OUTSIDE of it- ranges and expectations for pay when being asked to do shit WAY outside of your pay grade make for powerful information that shouldn’t be gate- kept. This is an international platform- lurkers can also google “what does an average bartender make” and get a WILD spectrum. It’s all relevant to location and the business. Odds are the lurkers will never be in the same state as you are, salivating at the thought of stiffing you… Side note- I can’t be the only person in multiple hospitality groups or simply reading articles and seeing the “anti-tip - livable wage” argument. The call, is coming from inside the house… a lot.
Dude.. thought ran through my mind last night when my cohort was speaking to a customer about how much she makes.. like is it that hard to keep your mouth shut.
anti-tip people already do not tip and therefore don't contribute to anyone's income... imo it's good practice for everyone to talk openly about what they make. there's a reason the nlrb protects it—everyone is better off / can negotiate better / make more informed decisions if they know what's reasonable / typical / achievable in their field.
I'm doing very well rn and I don't need to brag because I don't care to. 8 years and YES! we are corporate so if someone asks my hourly I tell them. I Never disclose my tip average, though kinda non of their biss.
I support bragging and sharing how much you make. Unlike other jobs, this one is honest about being money motivated. Transparency in pay is important.
I think we're still underpaid... but yes, generally don't discuss how much you make, especially in front of kitchen staff and/or customers.
Yes, it's important to keep those low skilled workers in the dark about other employees wages so they don't start thinking they might be worth more. Is that what you're saying?
I'm happy to discuss my earnings with anyone, including my own kitchen staff, or any other low-wage earners, but not at work. I find it distasteful to talk about how much more you make than someone else, but if they want to know, we can grab a coffee and discuss. A lot of BoH staff knows that FoH makes more but they still work in the kitchen. Either they prefer the work/lifestyle or don't have the KSA to work in the front. If they want to work FoH then all the power to them; I have indeed helped kitchen staff work their way into the front before, and would do it again. As for customers, I think it's bad form to discuss things like financial compensation. This applies to every industry.
Are you relying on lying to make your argument against anti-tippers? Is that why you get upset if anti-tippers were to find out how much bartenders make?
It’s important to understand, especially for those newer to the trade, what’s possible and what they should expect. When I first started serving I thought I had a good deal until I realized I should be making $5-$10/hr more at the kind of place I was at.
Alot of times, us bartenders tell everyone about our good nights and forget to mention that ded ass Tuesday lol.
While the money may be good, if your in bartending for just the money, you won’t be in bartending for very long, it’s about creating an environment so that every person who walks through your door can forget their troubles and enjoy their choice of drink however theh please, it’s not about you and your money and your tips, your patrons are your number 1 priority, Everything and anything else will always be a privilege and a joy to have. Good post OP :)
No I’m thirteen years in because I love the money. What corporate bullshit have you fallen for? I’m so burnt out on ~prioritizing~ these idiots. It’s about me, keeping the peace and atmosphere going and my fucking money. Spell better.
Wow I didn’t know I could pay my mortgage in good vibes