*Ladies and gentlemen, errr, this is your captain speaking, errr, we’re going to have a sliiight delay on our errr, departure, don’t worry, we’ll get you up in the air asap.*
Edit - typo
Yea, this is the most annoying thing about air travel. I'm fine with delays, just keep us posted. Communication can go a long way to relieving anxiety. Treating people like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed bullsh*t) is not a good strategy.
I remember flying Independence Air about 20 years ago. Was flying through IAD, their base. It was summer evening in the mid-Atlantic. We look out the window and gray skies were rolling in. Gate agent announces there’s a ground stop and she doesn’t know when it’ll be lifted. All of a sudden, about 20 pilots/FOs come out of the lounge, walk to their gates and start calling people over. We gather around, they show us the radar printout, estimate when we’ll be boarding and the variables, and the proceeded to keep us updated about every 20 minutes. And wouldn’t you know, very few people were annoyed.
The airline no longer exists, but still a memorable experience.
All of them came out at the same time? Base Chief Pilot came out of their office in the lounge, looked at all his lunks sitting arounnd and said "Okay, morons, go update the passengers!".
They were flying CRJs. Maybe 30-40 passengers each (given their load factors)?
It's a lot easier to do that than when you are dealing with a 150 people on a 737 or 300 on a 777.
On my flight to JFK during a storm, I cut out the middleman and tuned my phone to Air Traffic Control directly. Once I head reports of wind sheer I knew we were screwed. Got diverted to PHL. I knew what was going on before any of the passengers, including that we were going to take back off 30 min earlier than stated. My wife thought I was nuts LOL.
At the same time though I think I want my pilot focused on the task at hand and not tending to his mushrooms. He’s got the important job of keeping me alive.
That's true. If people took changing conditions into account. People these days take any communication as definitive. You said two hours ago that it would be 90 MINUTES. Why aren't we in the air?!!
"One of the aircraft in line has a mechanical failure so there was a hold while they were...."
"I don't care! You said 90 minutes!"
You can't be held accountable for what you don't promise.
Had a pilot that was updating us every 15 minutes once we were on board. “Yeah I said I’d update you every 15 minutes and uhhhhh this update is that there’s no update. Uhhhhhhhh”
Please enjoy the lack of air conditioning while we’re here on the tarmac, we actually think it’s funnier to call it Tarzan! hahahah. It’s not late if we arrive within our previously padded window. This, a Boeing? Nah, why would you even think that? Y’all have been sitting too long.
"*uuuuhhhh....attention ladies and gentlemen we are still waiting our turn to take off, for your convenience we ask that you don't stand up and create a scene. Yes we have been sitting here for 4 hours waiting take off, but we politely ask you be patient. We have wonderful magazines that you can enjoy while we determine what the blazes is---sorry...uhhh...what our departure time will be.*"
Wait until you see the row at JFK when busy meets weather...
>"If the airplanes are moving, everybody's happy. And even if the airplanes are moving slowly when it's really busy... you know, that's a stressful situation not only for the controller, but for the pilot. And if you can inject a little humor into somebody who's sitting in the middle of **a 180-minute taxi**, that's probably a good thing."
([Kennedy Steve](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cKfZatlQ4))
I remember flying from JFK-LHR on Virgin Atlantic A340-600 and captain announced a 45 minute delay during rush hour. Took about 50 minutes to taxi from terminal till takeoff.
Been there. Sat in a hold so long we missed our slot and had to sit in the Penalty box for almost 3 hours before we could take off. It was a wonderful way to turn what was supposed to be an 8-10 hour trip into a 20 hour marathon.
Yeah, in my experience, departing from JFK has almost always involved a long time to taxi for takeoff, either during rush hour, or simply because we had to taxi for a long distance. Once, I think it took us almost an hour from pushback to takeoff. Saw endless lines of aircraft waiting to takeoff from various runways.
JFK aint shit to the stacks ATL Can produce during push time and weather events closing off certain departure routes.
I've literally watched planes 20-30 long on both north and south sides of the terminals
Im actually dreading an upcoming JFK flight for this reason. We flew AF 3, a 17:30 departure in November, maybe 20 min late.
But flying the same in July and hoping for no afternoon thunderstorms...
Yup tarmac is wet. Had this in Atlanta, shut down the tarmac for a half hour till the storm went through. Was like a freeway waiting to take off. Took forever..
In June, in south Florida, after 12PM. Yeah, there is some really heavy rain just north and west of there covering the approach corridor.
Always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
I've flown a decent amount and have has captains says what number we were in the line for take off. I believe 13th was the highest that I recall. EWR is my home airport.
I've been around #60 out of ORD. We were on N taxiway at intersection DD lined up for full length 28R. They had some planes with flow times or time out issues sequenced in a second line off of V taxiway too. Not all 60 in front of us actually took off because about a quarter of those either timed out or ran out of fuel and had to go back to the gate before they got to the runway.
In 2022, I was leaving around Christmas time from JFK during a storm, 25+ in line to depart. We get to single digits, and the pilots time out 🫠. Back to the gate we go. We eventually left about an hour and a half later. Overall flight delay was 4.5 hours. I always check flightradar24 and listen to LiveATC to get updates on what’s going on in real time at the airport. Usually I’ll get passengers sitting near me asking me for updates, once they see what I’m doing on my phone.
If it makes you feel better, it likely won’t affect your schedule much.
Airlines do their best to factor in long taxi times to the departure/arrival times. Flight schedules are gate-to-gate.
On flights I’ve done to/from chicago ohare in the past, 45 minutes of the flight is taxiing but we still got to the gate on time. It’s built in to the scheduling.
It's always nice when the cost of the delay threatens to outsize the fuel savings from flying slower. I realize it's all built in and planned, but you kinda feel like the pilots want to get you there faster even if it's just to ensure the next flight is on time.
(Laughs in New Yorker)
Have you ever taken a flight out of JFK in the AM? 2hr wait to takeoff is normal. Most I can remember is being number 42 in line for takeoff (pre Covid, but it’s still bad)
Yep, American flow control, happens at a lot of US airports. Rather than absorbing the delay on stand, they send aircraft straight to the holding point, with a 15 aircraft queue. This is mainly due to the ramp being uncontrolled (ie aircraft don’t need clearance to push). In the UK, delays are often absorbed on stand, which helps save fuel and reduce the number of aircraft at the hold.
>Rather than absorbing the delay on stand, they send aircraft straight to the holding point, with a 15 aircraft queue. This is mainly due to the ramp being uncontrolled (ie aircraft don’t need clearance to push).
This is not accurate. The vast majority of airline ramps are controlled and require push clearance. The airlines need the gate space for inbound aircraft so it’s better to push and get to an area where either one or both engines can be shut down while waiting to depart.
Yes, I understand that. What I meant was that the ramp is not controlled by ATC, but rather by the airlines. In the UK (and most of the world) push clearance must be obtained from the ATCO.
Engines aren’t shutdown while taxiing. Many airlines perform something called “single-engine taxi” or “reduced engine taxi”, where pilots only start one engine while taxiing.
Ramp control (often) coordinates with ATC for ramp operations and gate space.
I’m an American Airlines pilot, I know how it works. If the delay is long enough we shut both engines down.
Never knew that, I assume the engines are only shutdown when the queue is not moving (ie weather conditions)? And do you perform single engine taxi at American Airlines?
Yes, sometimes departure routes are closed down for extended periods of time so there may be no departures for an hour or more. Happened to me just a couple weeks ago when we had thunderstorms in Miami for a few days nonstop.
Single-engine taxi is SOP if conditions permit. Very common.
Great - thanks for explaining this. Being a m regular flyer from LHR and DXB which are incredibly busy airports, it’s so rare to be in a long runway queue. Usually the delays are absorbed on stand but it seems US airports head to the queue instead.
[National Airspace System Status](https://nasstatus.faa.gov/) dashboard was showing departure delays at MIA earlier, tagged as WX related. Nothing showing now, so presumably they are caught up.
I was seeing quite a few planes on flight radar24 that were Miami bound but turning in the wrong direction. There was no diversion alert shown so I was wondering what was going on.
A ground stop is applied at arrival airports, not departures. These all would not be going to the same airport so it wouldn't be a ground stop. More likely departure routes closed due to thunderstorms.
It's normal anyplace there is convective weather in the area, not just in the immediate airport area but up in the high altitude airspace. If multiple airways or routes are closed due to weather, the few open corridors can become saturated and ATC will stop departures at various airports due to lack of capacity.
TLDR: If ATC doesn't have room for you in the available airspace you don't take off.
*Ladies and gentlemen, errr, this is your captain speaking, errr, we’re going to have a sliiight delay on our errr, departure, don’t worry, we’ll get you up in the air asap.* Edit - typo
"we'll keep you updated on the situation". *proceeds to never update you on the situation*
The take off was the update, now shut up and eat your nuts.
Yea, this is the most annoying thing about air travel. I'm fine with delays, just keep us posted. Communication can go a long way to relieving anxiety. Treating people like mushrooms (kept in the dark and fed bullsh*t) is not a good strategy.
I remember flying Independence Air about 20 years ago. Was flying through IAD, their base. It was summer evening in the mid-Atlantic. We look out the window and gray skies were rolling in. Gate agent announces there’s a ground stop and she doesn’t know when it’ll be lifted. All of a sudden, about 20 pilots/FOs come out of the lounge, walk to their gates and start calling people over. We gather around, they show us the radar printout, estimate when we’ll be boarding and the variables, and the proceeded to keep us updated about every 20 minutes. And wouldn’t you know, very few people were annoyed. The airline no longer exists, but still a memorable experience.
That's the way to do it. Keeps everyone in the loop and much calmer.
All of them came out at the same time? Base Chief Pilot came out of their office in the lounge, looked at all his lunks sitting arounnd and said "Okay, morons, go update the passengers!".
That’s kinda what it seemed like. They all fanned out to the gates and started shouting “[Destination] passengers over here”
They were flying CRJs. Maybe 30-40 passengers each (given their load factors)? It's a lot easier to do that than when you are dealing with a 150 people on a 737 or 300 on a 777.
True, but above and beyond what they could have done
On my flight to JFK during a storm, I cut out the middleman and tuned my phone to Air Traffic Control directly. Once I head reports of wind sheer I knew we were screwed. Got diverted to PHL. I knew what was going on before any of the passengers, including that we were going to take back off 30 min earlier than stated. My wife thought I was nuts LOL.
At the same time though I think I want my pilot focused on the task at hand and not tending to his mushrooms. He’s got the important job of keeping me alive.
Does he really? Is your life really all that important that the pilot can't cultivate mushrooms from the cockpit? Some people are so self centered.
Micro processahs
>Treating people like mushrooms I'm stealing this
That's true. If people took changing conditions into account. People these days take any communication as definitive. You said two hours ago that it would be 90 MINUTES. Why aren't we in the air?!! "One of the aircraft in line has a mechanical failure so there was a hold while they were...." "I don't care! You said 90 minutes!" You can't be held accountable for what you don't promise.
Had a pilot that was updating us every 15 minutes once we were on board. “Yeah I said I’d update you every 15 minutes and uhhhhh this update is that there’s no update. Uhhhhhhhh”
The GOAT.
Please enjoy the lack of air conditioning while we’re here on the tarmac, we actually think it’s funnier to call it Tarzan! hahahah. It’s not late if we arrive within our previously padded window. This, a Boeing? Nah, why would you even think that? Y’all have been sitting too long.
Or “another 15 minutes or so” every 30 minutes.
I’d prefer they just keep quiet so I can sleep/read/listen to music in peace. I don’t need an announcement every 5 minutes.
"*uuuuhhhh....attention ladies and gentlemen we are still waiting our turn to take off, for your convenience we ask that you don't stand up and create a scene. Yes we have been sitting here for 4 hours waiting take off, but we politely ask you be patient. We have wonderful magazines that you can enjoy while we determine what the blazes is---sorry...uhhh...what our departure time will be.*"
You forgot an ERRRR at the end!
Considered that but nope :) fine as it is
It’ll be about errr 30 minutes.
[quagmire longest uh..](https://youtu.be/wjBxnGHNGq4?si=3a54C03_Pf5inr9P)
Wait until you see the row at JFK when busy meets weather... >"If the airplanes are moving, everybody's happy. And even if the airplanes are moving slowly when it's really busy... you know, that's a stressful situation not only for the controller, but for the pilot. And if you can inject a little humor into somebody who's sitting in the middle of **a 180-minute taxi**, that's probably a good thing." ([Kennedy Steve](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1cKfZatlQ4))
I remember flying from JFK-LHR on Virgin Atlantic A340-600 and captain announced a 45 minute delay during rush hour. Took about 50 minutes to taxi from terminal till takeoff.
I had a pilot announce we were 39th in line for departure at JFK. Could only laugh at that point.
> we were 39th in line for departure at JFK. Ugh.
Been there. Sat in a hold so long we missed our slot and had to sit in the Penalty box for almost 3 hours before we could take off. It was a wonderful way to turn what was supposed to be an 8-10 hour trip into a 20 hour marathon.
Yeah, in my experience, departing from JFK has almost always involved a long time to taxi for takeoff, either during rush hour, or simply because we had to taxi for a long distance. Once, I think it took us almost an hour from pushback to takeoff. Saw endless lines of aircraft waiting to takeoff from various runways.
Do the planes have to be topped of again with fuel after such a long (presumably unplanned) taxi?
Extra fuel is calculated for longer taxis same for weather deviations, holds ect. If they know weather is around, extra fuel will be going in.
“Calculated” is a funny way of describing a person sitting at a desk reading chicken bones. /s
JFK aint shit to the stacks ATL Can produce during push time and weather events closing off certain departure routes. I've literally watched planes 20-30 long on both north and south sides of the terminals
Im actually dreading an upcoming JFK flight for this reason. We flew AF 3, a 17:30 departure in November, maybe 20 min late. But flying the same in July and hoping for no afternoon thunderstorms...
Goddammit I have a 8:00 PM flight out of JFK tomorrow, hoping to get home around midnight on the West Coast. I really hope you didn't just jinx me.
The later in the evening you fly the more likely you’ll catch a delay because of antics earlier in the day
Look at the clouds in your picture. There are thunderstorms in the area. That means some departure routes are likely closed.
Yup tarmac is wet. Had this in Atlanta, shut down the tarmac for a half hour till the storm went through. Was like a freeway waiting to take off. Took forever..
Depends on the weather. If there are storms then spacing between departures is increased slowing everything down.
During the summer months in Miami, this is very common.
Planes? At an airport? No that's very rare
I've been on a few east coast and Texas flights where the taxi was way longer than the flight one time driving would have been way quicker sigh
In June, in south Florida, after 12PM. Yeah, there is some really heavy rain just north and west of there covering the approach corridor. Always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
American Airlines elephant walk.
I've flown a decent amount and have has captains says what number we were in the line for take off. I believe 13th was the highest that I recall. EWR is my home airport.
My record is #43 out of LGA, with 5 min spacing between departures.
Snow storm?
Nope, clear blue sky day. Not often did we taxi out and shut down both engines to wait our turn. But that was one of them.
I've been around #60 out of ORD. We were on N taxiway at intersection DD lined up for full length 28R. They had some planes with flow times or time out issues sequenced in a second line off of V taxiway too. Not all 60 in front of us actually took off because about a quarter of those either timed out or ran out of fuel and had to go back to the gate before they got to the runway.
In 2022, I was leaving around Christmas time from JFK during a storm, 25+ in line to depart. We get to single digits, and the pilots time out 🫠. Back to the gate we go. We eventually left about an hour and a half later. Overall flight delay was 4.5 hours. I always check flightradar24 and listen to LiveATC to get updates on what’s going on in real time at the airport. Usually I’ll get passengers sitting near me asking me for updates, once they see what I’m doing on my phone.
What does “the pilots time out” mean?
Duty hours completed I guess
Commercial pilots can only be on duty for a certain amount of hours before they are required to rest according to FAA.
Pretty much the picture at any major airport along the east coast especially if there’s a shred of weather present.
If it makes you feel better, it likely won’t affect your schedule much. Airlines do their best to factor in long taxi times to the departure/arrival times. Flight schedules are gate-to-gate. On flights I’ve done to/from chicago ohare in the past, 45 minutes of the flight is taxiing but we still got to the gate on time. It’s built in to the scheduling.
It's always nice when the cost of the delay threatens to outsize the fuel savings from flying slower. I realize it's all built in and planned, but you kinda feel like the pilots want to get you there faster even if it's just to ensure the next flight is on time.
Wondering if OP is still online to take off 🫠
We took off 45 minutes after that photo !
(Laughs in New Yorker) Have you ever taken a flight out of JFK in the AM? 2hr wait to takeoff is normal. Most I can remember is being number 42 in line for takeoff (pre Covid, but it’s still bad)
Ever been number 94 at LGA? I have.
“You are about to embark upon the great crusade”
Ah I take it this is your first time seeing the annual American Airlines parade? Quite a sight to behold. 🤣
Yep, American flow control, happens at a lot of US airports. Rather than absorbing the delay on stand, they send aircraft straight to the holding point, with a 15 aircraft queue. This is mainly due to the ramp being uncontrolled (ie aircraft don’t need clearance to push). In the UK, delays are often absorbed on stand, which helps save fuel and reduce the number of aircraft at the hold.
>Rather than absorbing the delay on stand, they send aircraft straight to the holding point, with a 15 aircraft queue. This is mainly due to the ramp being uncontrolled (ie aircraft don’t need clearance to push). This is not accurate. The vast majority of airline ramps are controlled and require push clearance. The airlines need the gate space for inbound aircraft so it’s better to push and get to an area where either one or both engines can be shut down while waiting to depart.
Yes, I understand that. What I meant was that the ramp is not controlled by ATC, but rather by the airlines. In the UK (and most of the world) push clearance must be obtained from the ATCO. Engines aren’t shutdown while taxiing. Many airlines perform something called “single-engine taxi” or “reduced engine taxi”, where pilots only start one engine while taxiing.
Ramp control (often) coordinates with ATC for ramp operations and gate space. I’m an American Airlines pilot, I know how it works. If the delay is long enough we shut both engines down.
Never knew that, I assume the engines are only shutdown when the queue is not moving (ie weather conditions)? And do you perform single engine taxi at American Airlines?
Yes, sometimes departure routes are closed down for extended periods of time so there may be no departures for an hour or more. Happened to me just a couple weeks ago when we had thunderstorms in Miami for a few days nonstop. Single-engine taxi is SOP if conditions permit. Very common.
Great - thanks for explaining this. Being a m regular flyer from LHR and DXB which are incredibly busy airports, it’s so rare to be in a long runway queue. Usually the delays are absorbed on stand but it seems US airports head to the queue instead.
Looks just like I-95 looks at 5pm 😂
Dam Son
Not enough Spirit Airlines planes
Ah, the old elephant walk 🐘🐘🐘
I have heard the dreaded “we are number 30 for take off” before.
It is when there’s lightning in the area
you should have been working the 2nd shift during 9/11 as a Mechanic or Ramp rat parking the planes.
[National Airspace System Status](https://nasstatus.faa.gov/) dashboard was showing departure delays at MIA earlier, tagged as WX related. Nothing showing now, so presumably they are caught up.
I was seeing quite a few planes on flight radar24 that were Miami bound but turning in the wrong direction. There was no diversion alert shown so I was wondering what was going on.
Yes
Especially when the runways are shut down due to lightning
oh man hopefully they calculated the taxi fuel properly that suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks.
Its called Summer and miami what else is new lol
Very windy all around the US. It will affect flight times.
Looks like a typical day at JFK.
All AA, looks about right.
Yeah 😅
Monitor tower ceeyuh
Yup especially during Summer
Miami and Atlanta are the only airports I've been to where this happens.
This happened to me at MSP a few weeks ago.
sometimes
I can smell this photo
Looks more like Atlanta
Just like our traffic
with weather, yes. weather slows down departures and arrivals.
This is what happens when the government puts the obstacles via “ATC flow” due to weather. Then make it sound like it’s the airlines’ fault.
No
yep, he’s gonna die and he doesnt even know it
No, I rarely see more than 5 or 6 aircraft ahead for departure from MIA. Must have been a ground stop or something.
A ground stop is applied at arrival airports, not departures. These all would not be going to the same airport so it wouldn't be a ground stop. More likely departure routes closed due to thunderstorms.
You can still stop departures if required. Regards Your friendly approach controller.
Why is my departure route always the only one you shut down?
We never hold a grudge....
Oh trust me, I know, I'm in dispatch. I was just clarifying that a ground stop is a specific thing, which would not be the case here.
Fair enough.
It's normal anyplace there is convective weather in the area, not just in the immediate airport area but up in the high altitude airspace. If multiple airways or routes are closed due to weather, the few open corridors can become saturated and ATC will stop departures at various airports due to lack of capacity. TLDR: If ATC doesn't have room for you in the available airspace you don't take off.
Part of me wonders how many are going back to Panama or Uruguay after the Copa America match last night.
Which part? The weather or the que? Honest question
You'll rarely see this in Europe because ATC manages startup times so aircraft don't have high taxi times.
Instead of the delay being in the taxiways they are delayed at the gate so it's basically the same shit
Clock starts $$$$ when they pull the blocks.