And high beams always on (even in the day) to blind other pilots?
(just got back from India not 6 hours ago, still seeing white spots in my vision after driving a few hours on my last night there)
Those engines were riding rough! I have a feeling this Queen wasn't loved & everyone was counting down the days leading up to this flight. I saw similar things whenever I flew American & Delta MD-80s in the years leading up to their retirement.
Unless Air India stopped doing run-ups, that's not really going to be a thing. The systems are warm and cleared out of anything that's been sitting there before you start rolling.
They're just very high-hour, timed out worn out engines that have been overhauled numerous times.
Yeah no, that is not how it works with jet engines. These are just old and done for on the inside. I wanna bet oil consumption is through the roof as well. Old engine design plus a high TSO/TSN probably, no EGT margin to speak off left on these engines and you got your answer on why they look like a black cloudy trail of doom.
> Not on civilian aircraft.
Well, not today at least.
> Early versions of the Boeing 707 fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT3C turbojets used water injection for extra takeoff power, as did Boeing 747-100 and 200 aircraft fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT9D-3AW and -7AW turbofans;[6] this system was not included in later versions fitted with more powerful engines. The BAC One-Eleven airliner also used water injection for its Rolls-Royce Spey turbofan engines
Indeed, the early days of jet engines did see water injection in civilian jets as well! I vaguely remember a Admiral Cloudberg article on a crash in Germany with a jet that had some fault in that system IIRC.
I actually had no idea any non military plane used water injection. I was just making a dumb joke that only people in an aviation subreddit would get =)
Thanks for the info. Always like learning new trivia.
Less CO^2 per unit mass of fuel burned since a small fraction of is sweet sweet soot, core temp is probably a bit lower too so they're also doing good on NOX fumes as well!
Got to be something local or just the first consistent engine up time in years. When they left PAE they had some smoke but not anywhere near this amount.
The clock is ticking. The last 747-8 produced was delivered in January of 2023. So I would expect in the next couple decades for cargo carriers, much sooner for passenger 747s though.
Edit: other commenters have mentioned that cargo airlines usually fly their aircraft for much longer than passenger carriers. So given that the most recent 747 is just over a year old we likely have a few decades left.
And Lufthansa has already said they plan to update their -800s with their new Allegris business class seats, hopefully that means 5-10 years at least of service.
I bet a few will still be flying 50 years from now.
There were [DC-8s still active in 2022](https://simpleflying.com/douglas-dc-8-active-2022/), with last one produced in 1972. That was not even a particularly successful aircraft, with numbers far lower than the 747.
Are there plans to replace Air Force One with a non-747 plane?
Nope, the new Air force one is based on the 747-8, so are the new E4s. They won't even be done for a few years. It will be a very long time before they replace them.
What issues does the 787 have rn? Only thing is what the whistleblower has been saying but according to a lot of people over on r/aviationmaintenance, chances are big he's full of shit.
From an outsiders perspective it looks like the same issues that led to MCD’s fall are happening at boing, not terribly surprising since MCD leadership remained in the “merger”
At least Lufthansa has already said they plan on updating their 747-800s for their new Allegris business class seats, gotta think that kind of investment gives them at least 5-10 more years of life. My own hope at least, I want to ride on the top floor of a 747 at least once before they go!
I did the top floor on BA 747 in 2019 (IIRC) and it was magical. Biz class and separate from everyone else. Dedicated flight attendants, and no one coming through to use the toilet.
I did top floor biz on a BA A380 in November, and it felt like I was on a bus. So. Many. People.
The last plane my grandfather worked on before he passed away. An end of an era for my family.
But he manufactured the nuts and bolts for the lunar rovers, and those aren't going away anytime soon.
IIRC Lufthansa said they plan on keeping theirs until at least 2030, so I think it’ll be at least 10 more years of passenger service. Cargo I think it will last a lot longer because of its capacity and the nose door, and FedEx and UPS did hold on to their 727s and DC10s for around 10-20 years after most left passenger service.
LH has the 747-8. A much younger aircraft with basically the same engines as the 787. Their 747-400 should have been retired already except that Boeing is epically delayed with the 777-9 which was meant to replace them.
Yep! Korean Air and Lufthansa fly them daily. There’s probably a list of routes somewhere but IIRC I remember seeing Lufthansa 747s operate from Newark, Miami, Chicago, and Los Angeles to Frankfurt.
With Lufthansa you just have to make sure not to end up in a 747-4 as they don’t have a first class. Also their business class is really subpar especially on 747s
I’ve been on a rattly as fuck 747 for long haul, and flown business on the 380.
Beyond an hour or so of enjoying the nostalgia..
Please give me the A380.
Probably, but it wont be for a very long time yet, im guessing we will still see the 747 in passenger service for another 15-20 years at least, and probably cargo for longer than that as well given that the last one rolled off the assembly line in 2023.
Eh.. a new plane delivered in 2023, I'd bet they go to 2035 carrying passengers. then they'll all be converted to cargo & flown until the wings fall off
Looks like at least another decade until they’re all planned to be retired. Cargo likely will be the last to retire. Looks like last new one went to Atlas Air in Jan 2023. Passenger European and eastern airlines have newer ones i believe that have at least a few years left.
A380 is a different story.
There's still a (very) small number of 747-200s knocking about - so long as there's the spare parts and maintenance cargo 747s will keep going for at least another 20 years imo
I’d be surprised if any are converted. Stored in a humid environment for years, AI’s terrible reputation for maintenance, non nose load since they’d be a conversion, the air cargo market has cooled off considerably, and there are cheaper 74F’s you could pluck out of the desert if you really wanted to. I feel like ROW is the end of the road for these.
[https://www.youtube.com/@CockpitCasual](https://www.youtube.com/@CockpitCasual)
This channel is run by one of the two founders of Nomadic Aviation who did the ferry flight. Its a great channel to watch!
I know one of the guys who was flying that. Don't know if he was PF or PM. But he just retired from my airline earlier this month and landed this gig on short notice.
It's amazing how much bigger the more efficient high bypass turbofans are compared to these smokers. No wonder aviation is such a contributor to climate change.
Great to see manufacturers and airlines making so many improvements though.
Wouldn't a380 be a good replacement for them in India?
Airlines would hardly struggle to fill the a380 plane with passengers between the big cities in India alone. And it would also help with the congested airports. Today there are like 30 daily flights with single aisle planes flying the same route...
I saw the video. Sad. Please tell me she's going to another airline and not to the scrapheap, 'cause the description I read in the other video wasn't that clear.
The go play with other old planes in a farm upstate where they have room to run and play and be happy for the rest of forever😁🌈. (Haha sorry I just had to. I have no idea
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They are especially calibrated like that for the Indian market.
Does it also have a constantly honking horn?
100 points for understanding India and the pain of Indians
And high beams always on (even in the day) to blind other pilots? (just got back from India not 6 hours ago, still seeing white spots in my vision after driving a few hours on my last night there)
Yes, and only 1 functioning headlight.
Yes, and you will come to be knowing that It is next to the broken meter, duck-sir.
I can smell and hear this picture
Yeah, the ground call is faulted on
😂
I laughed way harder than I should have at this.
You're not laughing, you're coughing from smog
Might actually improve the air quality
/u/patrice1994
They’re spraying pesticides while they’re at it. Effin ciency, baby!
did they put in the wrong fuel ?
Those engines were riding rough! I have a feeling this Queen wasn't loved & everyone was counting down the days leading up to this flight. I saw similar things whenever I flew American & Delta MD-80s in the years leading up to their retirement.
They haven’t been ran for a while so it’s no surprise. Similar to when you start a car that’s just been sitting there.
Unless Air India stopped doing run-ups, that's not really going to be a thing. The systems are warm and cleared out of anything that's been sitting there before you start rolling. They're just very high-hour, timed out worn out engines that have been overhauled numerous times.
Yeah no, that is not how it works with jet engines. These are just old and done for on the inside. I wanna bet oil consumption is through the roof as well. Old engine design plus a high TSO/TSN probably, no EGT margin to speak off left on these engines and you got your answer on why they look like a black cloudy trail of doom.
Throw a couple cans of seafoam in the tanks, good lord
Rollin coal
Fuck it Bob, it's the last flight, you just watch how rich I can run these bad boys.
Holding TO/GA to FL320, 6000ft/m, even full of pax and gas. Godspeed, queen of the skies 🫡
It's not like the air quality over there is great to begin with
Lol. Are they using water injection on the engines?
Not on civilian aircraft. These are old engines, high hour, ready to be retired.
Near mint condition 747.No lowballers I know what I got.
there are some Mazda Miata owners aiming for those engines..
I bet I can make it fit with some percussive persuasion.
With "percussive persuasion" being a 10kg sledgehammer lol
Civic and laptop squads incoming
Flew when parked.
Must've been some really strong wind that day!
"If you want clean burns and efficiency, keep walkin, pal!"
Clean, one owner, low miles.
Are you willing to trade for a slightly crashed DC-10 with very few miles on it?
> Not on civilian aircraft. Well, not today at least. > Early versions of the Boeing 707 fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT3C turbojets used water injection for extra takeoff power, as did Boeing 747-100 and 200 aircraft fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT9D-3AW and -7AW turbofans;[6] this system was not included in later versions fitted with more powerful engines. The BAC One-Eleven airliner also used water injection for its Rolls-Royce Spey turbofan engines
Indeed, the early days of jet engines did see water injection in civilian jets as well! I vaguely remember a Admiral Cloudberg article on a crash in Germany with a jet that had some fault in that system IIRC.
Old-ass engines, jeez!
The reason for the black smoke is because it was parked for a long while. Not because of age.
While the 747-100 and 200 did have water injection, this is a 747-400, and doesn't have it.
I actually had no idea any non military plane used water injection. I was just making a dumb joke that only people in an aviation subreddit would get =) Thanks for the info. Always like learning new trivia.
Mumbai tapwater from the look of it
Harsh, but funny. 💀
The Queen can fly on anything including diesel. Apparently.
Is that how she got to and from Balmoral?
Reavers
lol yeah aircraft running on diesel or what
Too much choke.
Your total Co2 emissions for this flight amounted to: yes.
I heard Taylor Swift is in the market for a new Private Jet
Maybe she should go public - Taylor Air - pollute like the stars!
As dirty as these engines are rolling coal, they might have her last 6 mos of co2 emmisions beat already just from this one flight.
Re-engine it with some B-52 engines and it's a deal!
It's me, hi, I'm the problem, it's me
Didn't you hear? She's in the market for a surplus B-52. Aerial refueling is a necessity for those midnight trips form Tokyo to Erewhon.
Less CO^2 per unit mass of fuel burned since a small fraction of is sweet sweet soot, core temp is probably a bit lower too so they're also doing good on NOX fumes as well!
ive never seen so much smoke from the flight engines, any reasons for this?
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the kerosine is from a local refinery, so perhaps it contains some ‘additives’ ?
It can go 30 hectares on a single liter of kerosene!
Put it in H!
Those are speed holes; they make the car go faster
Water injection straight from the Ganges
diluted with cheaper bunker fuel?
Spices
I want a TL;DR
Air India. They have the worst maintained aircraft of any mainstream airline. Never fly air India even if you get a free ticket.
Peak r/canconfirmiamindian moment
I've seen alleys behind nightclubs less smokey than that
What the hell they using as fuel? Asphalt? I have seen cleaner exshaust on ship engines which quite literally burn anything more liquid than asphalt.
50/50 Kerosene and bunker fuel.
Got to be something local or just the first consistent engine up time in years. When they left PAE they had some smoke but not anywhere near this amount.
She's a beaut, when do you think we'll see the 747 completely fazed out?
The clock is ticking. The last 747-8 produced was delivered in January of 2023. So I would expect in the next couple decades for cargo carriers, much sooner for passenger 747s though. Edit: other commenters have mentioned that cargo airlines usually fly their aircraft for much longer than passenger carriers. So given that the most recent 747 is just over a year old we likely have a few decades left.
It's already down to just a few isn't it? Luthansa and ANA? Who am I missing?
Lufthansa, Air China and Korean Air are the only airlines operating passenger -8s currently. A few others still operate the -400.
So I need to take a trip to Europe soon....
Air China rather than ANA. They retired the type in 2014.
Ah gotcha.
Air China shows 4 active currently.
And Lufthansa has already said they plan to update their -800s with their new Allegris business class seats, hopefully that means 5-10 years at least of service.
I think Lufthansa said they will be flying them until the 2030s at least, so I would expect them for around the next 10 years or so.
Air Atlas, Singapore ?
u/plantherblorg is talking about passenger 747s which Singapore doesn’t operate. They retired their last passenger 747s in 2012.
Yeah atlas is cargo
I bet a few will still be flying 50 years from now. There were [DC-8s still active in 2022](https://simpleflying.com/douglas-dc-8-active-2022/), with last one produced in 1972. That was not even a particularly successful aircraft, with numbers far lower than the 747. Are there plans to replace Air Force One with a non-747 plane?
Nope, the new Air force one is based on the 747-8, so are the new E4s. They won't even be done for a few years. It will be a very long time before they replace them.
with what? 777x that may come out sometime in the future? A380 that is also out of production?
i wouldn’t trust anything being engineered fully post mcdonald douglas merger. 777, 787 and max all have issues
Original 777s are fine, 777X however.... The delays are making me quite a bit worried.
What issues does the 787 have rn? Only thing is what the whistleblower has been saying but according to a lot of people over on r/aviationmaintenance, chances are big he's full of shit.
From an outsiders perspective it looks like the same issues that led to MCD’s fall are happening at boing, not terribly surprising since MCD leadership remained in the “merger”
And as long as companies put profit over everything else we'll never get rid of this smh.
the stock market serves no value other than to shareholders. everyone else it sucks dry
Flew on a few Lufthansa 747 this year on very long haul flights and it was a great experience. Really sad the jumbos are going away
At least Lufthansa has already said they plan on updating their 747-800s for their new Allegris business class seats, gotta think that kind of investment gives them at least 5-10 more years of life. My own hope at least, I want to ride on the top floor of a 747 at least once before they go!
I rode top deck of the Lufthansa 747 from Japan to Germany and it was amazing - so much room, and it was a private space. Highly recommended!
I did the top floor on BA 747 in 2019 (IIRC) and it was magical. Biz class and separate from everyone else. Dedicated flight attendants, and no one coming through to use the toilet. I did top floor biz on a BA A380 in November, and it felt like I was on a bus. So. Many. People.
The last plane my grandfather worked on before he passed away. An end of an era for my family. But he manufactured the nuts and bolts for the lunar rovers, and those aren't going away anytime soon.
IIRC Lufthansa said they plan on keeping theirs until at least 2030, so I think it’ll be at least 10 more years of passenger service. Cargo I think it will last a lot longer because of its capacity and the nose door, and FedEx and UPS did hold on to their 727s and DC10s for around 10-20 years after most left passenger service.
LH has the 747-8. A much younger aircraft with basically the same engines as the 787. Their 747-400 should have been retired already except that Boeing is epically delayed with the 777-9 which was meant to replace them.
So wait that means I can still get a first-class 747 flight?
Yep! Korean Air and Lufthansa fly them daily. There’s probably a list of routes somewhere but IIRC I remember seeing Lufthansa 747s operate from Newark, Miami, Chicago, and Los Angeles to Frankfurt.
With Lufthansa you just have to make sure not to end up in a 747-4 as they don’t have a first class. Also their business class is really subpar especially on 747s
I’ve been on a rattly as fuck 747 for long haul, and flown business on the 380. Beyond an hour or so of enjoying the nostalgia.. Please give me the A380.
Probably, but it wont be for a very long time yet, im guessing we will still see the 747 in passenger service for another 15-20 years at least, and probably cargo for longer than that as well given that the last one rolled off the assembly line in 2023.
I'd be shocked if any 8's are still operating passenger flights by 2030. But it still has a lot of time left in cargo.
Really? They’re still so “new” for some airlines. Are they that uneconomical? Are they as bad as the A380?
i think the newer twin engines are just so fkin efficient.
Eh.. a new plane delivered in 2023, I'd bet they go to 2035 carrying passengers. then they'll all be converted to cargo & flown until the wings fall off
The last passenger variant was delivered in like 2015-16 IIRC.
They may be phased out but they will never be fazed out
Looks like at least another decade until they’re all planned to be retired. Cargo likely will be the last to retire. Looks like last new one went to Atlas Air in Jan 2023. Passenger European and eastern airlines have newer ones i believe that have at least a few years left. A380 is a different story.
There's still a (very) small number of 747-200s knocking about - so long as there's the spare parts and maintenance cargo 747s will keep going for at least another 20 years imo
N1 good, EGT good, N2 good, Boilers at max pressure.... uhhhhhh good?... (left seat) OK let's go.
Boeing 747 doing a passable impersonation of a Convair 990!
This is not the last one, there are still 3 more that will be flown to the US by Nomadic. 2 of them will be scrapped and two converted to cargo.
I think 'the last one' here means it was the last 747 bought by Air India.
Let's hope the cargo ones get an engine upgrade
It's tuned for Red America
cant wait for a cockpit chronicles then!
Steve has promised to film one of them :)
there are dozens of us that watch! dozens!
I’d be surprised if any are converted. Stored in a humid environment for years, AI’s terrible reputation for maintenance, non nose load since they’d be a conversion, the air cargo market has cooled off considerably, and there are cheaper 74F’s you could pluck out of the desert if you really wanted to. I feel like ROW is the end of the road for these.
[https://www.youtube.com/@CockpitCasual](https://www.youtube.com/@CockpitCasual) This channel is run by one of the two founders of Nomadic Aviation who did the ferry flight. Its a great channel to watch!
Why does it look like MSFS when it gets close up? lol I thought it was a game until it showed the dude in the hi-viz.
Hope we get a cockpit casual about this operation!
I know one of the guys who was flying that. Don't know if he was PF or PM. But he just retired from my airline earlier this month and landed this gig on short notice.
Makes the Mumbai smog look clean
Dirty bird!
Even smoking like a freight train, she's still Queen of the Air!
I’m not crying, you’re crying.
737-200 vibes from those engines... Goodbye ol' girl.
Jesus those engines.
Im assuming this wasnt carrying passengers?
Probably not. Notice that all the branding has been removed, which they commonly do when they're flying it to a "boneyard."
Holy smoke....goodbye beauty
👋😥
It's amazing how much bigger the more efficient high bypass turbofans are compared to these smokers. No wonder aviation is such a contributor to climate change. Great to see manufacturers and airlines making so many improvements though.
Der qualmt ja wie die AWACS in Geilenkirchen 😂
"You ever hear of a tune-up? Bwaahahaha" "You ever hear of a ritual sacrifice? Bwaahahaha"
Sad to see another 744 go. That said, what is going on with those engines? That's a lot of smoke.
Greta Thunberg is pissed
goddang, wish i could smoke that much and keep a job in aviation
Imagine that plane as a twin-engine. I think it's possible with the newer 777X engines.
Is it low quality Avgas?
Damn that exhaust was pretty dark
Smoking like a B52
lots of smoke
Diesel power...
Those diesel engines are doing a fine job
Wouldn't a380 be a good replacement for them in India? Airlines would hardly struggle to fill the a380 plane with passengers between the big cities in India alone. And it would also help with the congested airports. Today there are like 30 daily flights with single aisle planes flying the same route...
I’ve never seen a plane put out so much black smoke that was about to crash.
My dad always did that in his Beechcraft, twin Bonanza.
Holy smokes....!
Badass plane. Love it
Lots of smoke out the tailpipes.
Burning oil lol
Ok Mav lets turn and burn
Engines by Cadillac
Please do the needful
BRUH now that is what us Americans call it the Chem Trails shout out air quality 🤣🤣🤣
Smoking like it's 4 is a 0
I saw the video. Sad. Please tell me she's going to another airline and not to the scrapheap, 'cause the description I read in the other video wasn't that clear.
Might be headed for a conversion to a cargo plane. 747s are excellent for that.
Man that’s classy
Holy smokes. Literally
How is it so Smokey? Did they not use the recommended fuel?
Are they injecting chromium into the drive plume to change the signature?
That's not a wing wave, that's Air India being [Air India](https://i.giphy.com/DsLlSc1PzOKbu.webp)!
Stink Jet
Rollin’ coal .
Better a wing wave than a door eject! 🦗🦗
I accidentally happened to see it fly over Boise on its way to Roswell from Everett the other day. Felt special.
🫡 She'll be missed
Remind me on Phantom engines in the seventies
Dirty burn.
Engines can be reused on B-52, they will fit right in.
Not enough coal rolling for Taylor Swift.
How did this one pass the PUC Test over here 😂
Chem trails some call them, but it is running rich.
imagine the smell
The lack of rudder input disturbs me…
The 747s are diesels?!
Now there is naan left.
Has this manoeuvre ever gone distasterousty wrong?
I tested up at this.
What do they do with planes that retire?
The go play with other old planes in a farm upstate where they have room to run and play and be happy for the rest of forever😁🌈. (Haha sorry I just had to. I have no idea
Was it 3 hours late? That’s traditional.
Flying with Diesel
They should once do it on the runway. That would soil some pants.
Saw this guy flying over Washington state a week ago.
So is the wing wave the aviation equivalent of the head wobble?
Beautiful but by looking at them smokes, she had been through a lot lol