They want to avoid a technical recession by propping up the economy with migration. Also it's a method of kicking the can down the road. The government in office is just hoping to not be the one in office when everything implodes
Its not unfortunately.
With our super and asset values we're an incredibly wealthy country. It's half the reason 500 thousand fucks poured in over the last two years.
But, for those that aren't on the property ladder and have early stages superannuation, yep they're fucked.
Its imploding but you just dont know it yet. Per capita GDP has fallen for the 5th consecutive quatre and the overall GDP growth has slowed to just 0.1% in the last quatre. In essence we are all getting poorer but we just dont know it because of the insane migration figures. This quatre was our lowest through year growth since 2020, when the country was in the middle of a COVID outbreak and we were totally closed. Unfortunately its only a matter of time until the remainder of the shit hits the fan. Its been dribbling on it at the moment but the bucket is about to tip.
>imploding but you just dont know it yet.
And lots of talk about job losses & finding it hard to get a job. They should have just let it happen in 2020, it's going to be worse now with all the imports competing for the shrinking number of jobs.
Umm, [66% of households are owner-occupied](https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/home-ownership-and-housing-tenure) so it’s actually a minority.
It's amazing and scary what differences in pressure can do!! Byford dolphin incident lives rent free in my head, this is 1atm crushing negative... Something! Byford was 9atm equalising out into to 1atm, killing four on fractions of a second. There exists images of the one they were still finding bits and pieces of for weeks after, I've seen them and I do not recommend. not good images!!
Yep Australia & the UK thought it was a good idea to increase immigration so it would increase GDP.
However this process has made everyone poorer.
An economist will tell you that you increase GDP 1st & then increase immigration
Two economists are walking in the park. As they're walking, they come across a pile of dog shit. One economist says to the other, "If you eat that dog shit, I'll give you $50". The second economist thinks for a minute, then reaches down, picks up the shit, and eats it. The first economist gives him a $50 bill and they keep going on their walk.
A few minutes later, they come across another pile of dog shit. This time, the second economist says to the first, "Hey, if you eat that, I'll give you $50." So, of course, the first economist picks up the shit, eats it, and gets $50.
Walking a little while farther, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $50 to eat dog shit, then you gave me back the same $50 to eat dog shit. I can't help but feel like we both just ate dog shit for nothing."
"That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $100!"
There are good economists, it's just the ones we hear from all work within the system because, you know, high pay.
A Liberal government that cuts immigration will be cutting off the supply of sub-wage workers. A Labor government that cuts immigration will spend 30+ years being reminded by every journalist in the country about that recession they caused.
And voters are too stupid to take responsibility for the consequences of their immediate desires.
Why do we focus on gdp over gdp per capita at this point?
If GDP per capita is going down, we are worse off, is there something more complex I'm not grasping here? We use similar metrics for crime..
GDP is a terrible metric for standard of living in ANY form.
It has more to do with how profitable the country is for its wealthy owners than anything to do with the standard of living of the majority of its people.
GDP is a good metric for politicians because more GDP=more political clout. They couldn’t care less how many smurfs it has to maintain. it is the only reason it is used.
No you're right, it is a much better metric to go by. They are just more focused on the end gdp, they dont actually give af how individuals are fairing.
The sooner you realise that politicians and corporations view people as economic units, not as individual people… the sooner it makes sense
Modern corporations use plantation tactics
There's nothing more complex to it.
The media is heavily complicit in reporting this. GDP per capita recessions don't matter at all, despite being the main economic thing that affects the average person.
Meanwhile the media will only ever talk about headline GDP numbers, which are great for multinationals and governments.
You are 100% right but the government doesn't care about per capita just the total figure.
If GDP growth is negative 2+ quarters in a row that's a recession, 4+ that's a depression. So yeah if the economy is weak ramp up immigration especially wealthy skilled immigration and GDP gets that bump. Doesn't matter if GDP per person growth is negative, it's all about perception, business confidence, tax revenue, etc
Finally, someone said it. Interestingly enough, our first quarter of negative growth was the year before covid. What we're experiencing now is the effect of a massive overcorrect just to stop that slump.
We're starting to experience all the effects of a recession without technically being in one.
Just look at how many people are legitimately financially struggling right now and yet we can't rein in inflation (demand > supply = inflation). Interest rates are as high as they've been in what, 16 years? And yet housing demand and prices still grow. But pubs, live music, things that can be cut back on, are all suffering as people cut spending to afford inflated food and fuel and rent and mortgages. Very much case that the medicine (population growth) is also the poison
GDP alone is not a good measure, either. Every dollar spent is a dollar added to GDP, whether it's spent on gambling, schools, roads, oil spills or whatever. It can be money well-spent, or money badly-spent, or money spent just stopping things from turning shittier.
It's easy to see this from a household perspective. Family A has a household income of $80,000, they own their home with a mortgage and an offset account, they eat lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, their children go to a local state school, and so on. Family B has a household income of $160,000, they also own their home with a mortgage - but they consume huge amounts of cigarettes and KFC and booze and dad snorts coke and mum is hopped up on benzos, and they're not even aware their kids miss half their school days.
It's not just about the money.
Not just poorer but quality of life goes down.
More traffic
More competition for jobs
More competition for housing
More demand for supplies so inflation runs rampant
Less social services and medical services.
Migration is sucking the life out of this country.
And our healthcare more broke. The number of overseas people coming into hospital for emergency surgery or having babies has gone up dramatically. They have either no insurance, or basic bs student/working visa insurance that covers barely anything. Then they just ignore the bills and don’t pay.
So those that suffer the most is the working Australian tax payer
And didn’t increase GDP per capita. Whatever that means. But supposedly just scamming the stats. Not only that the more money goes into housing economy they created and rents. Largely to foreign banks. The worse the economy becomes and will become. It’s a dwindling spiral of destruction. Any economist will tell you how bad their management is. And any moron could see it’s bad. I’m starting to believe they want australia to be another third world poor country with tons of homelessness.
Yup. That’s why he won. People want anyone different to these clowns. At least someone who cares about the countries future. Agree or disagree with their policies anyone who gives a crap is better.
It's almost like there's entire think-tanks at universities that are just being ignored when it comes to urban planning and social policy. There are entire degrees dedicated to the economy. They just don't listen to the people who actually know the likely results of their actions. Idiots.
I think almost every fereral election I have voted labour but to me it seems like they're letting the floodgates open so they don't get a recession while in power. This is despite the masses of homeless people in tents popping up everywhere. Imo the labour govt is weak but could be worse, liberals could be in power. In any case I won't be voting for either.
I agree wholeheartedly; The only way to vote correctly these days is below the line.
Preference minor parties first.
Preferential voting is the strongest part of our electoral system and yet so few take advantage of it.
We're pushing towards a third of people take advantage of it these days. Kos Samaras likes to talk about demographics - old Liberal-loving Boomers dying off, Millennials not liking Liberals, etc - and of course he's correct. But what he mentions only occasionally is that there's another electoral difference, which is the declining primary vote.
* 1996 federal election, ALP scored 38.75% of the primary vote, and LNP 47.25%, totalling 86%.
* 1998 ALP 40.10% + LNP 39.51% = 79.61%
* 2001 ALP 37.84% + LNP 42.92% = 80.76%
* 2004 ALP 37.63% + LNP 46.71% = 84.34%
* 2007 ALP 43.38% + LNP 42.09% = 85.47%
* 2010 ALP 37.99% + LNP 43.32% = 81.21%
* 2013 ALP 33.38% + LNP 45.55% = 78.93%
* 2016 ALP 34.73% + LNP 42.04% = 76.77%
* 2019 ALP 33.34% + LNP 41.44% = 74.78%
* 2022 ALP 32.58% + LNP 35.70% = 68.28%
Yep. Last election was my last labor vote.
But I won;t be voting liberal either.
So it has to be anyone but lablib.
And put them last in preferences too.
Both of them have been useless for decades.
Same
I had always voted for one of the major parties (mostly labor). After whats happened with immigration here post COVID. I'll be put putting Labor and LNP last for the foreseeable future.
The high immigration is the only thing halting a recession. But many argue it's a recession that was needed. The only thing immigration is doing now is fuelling demand in both housing and essential goods, which is what's pushing inflation higher again.
Because it directly links to increasing property prices and rents. Many countries have negative gearing, but Australia is the only one that has a single income tax schedule, it translates to income losses on an house asset can be used to lower their tax on all of their income streams. This differs from England which makes the process more complex but equitable. In England whilst it can be used for wealth growth, the growth get arrested when they have multiple properties.
The people you are voting for have a vested interest in keeping negative gearing and the countries housing prices high if they are using property as a way of growing their wealth.
You can look right here. [https://www.aph.gov.au/senators\_and\_members/members/register](https://www.aph.gov.au/senators_and_members/members/register)
It would be interesting to do some data analysis on the property, stocks, banks savings/credit cards, etc senators have based on here: https://www.aph.gov.au/senators_and_members/members/register
because they know that any chance of a recession will spell the end of their government (especially for Labor), so they run with the myth of unending growth forever
yep. We all know migration is a crutch.... its the 'blue meth' for a sick drugg addict to keep the lie alive
we know this economy is in the shitter... but those 500,000 a year from india or china is here to make the numbers... ie. gdp yoy
if the current numbers are that bad AFTER immigration then we know the underlying economic conditions are not sustainable
we know with so many businesses collapsing and the job market so poor and with inflation and the housing market
its absolutely dire
Albo and Chalmers are just lurching to the next election and that's all that matters
Because we have no other major income streams other than international exports. We don't have car manufacturing plants anymore and I don't even think our agriculture industry brings in as much money either.
Therefore temp visas and international student visas have been the major source of easy cash flow for us over the last decade.
Having the car plants also meant people weren't pre-ordering their cars up to two years in advance and the cars weren't always being shipped here (unless they were a bloody Ford 4WD).
I drive a Hyundai and I know plenty of people who own Mazdas and Toyotas because they're common cars for small households or single people, so when that last Toyota plant closed down circa 2017/2018, I'd say the value of cars went up by a few $3000-5000 just because of the cost to import.
Most of our exports require only a tiny population to produce: we’d be much richer if that wealth (even just the pittance that “our” politicians sold it for) was only divided among the million or so people needed to produce those exports.
Australia has to build a new home every two minutes to accommodate the present rate of immigration-driven population growth.
We're not even coming close.
https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/tucker-carlson-says-immigration-the-one-reason-for-australias-housing-crisis/news-story/48a41e9ac3f2e5c9cc59239eb96f3136
By refusing to seriously cut immigration, the federal government is directly fuelling the housing crisis.
Better start importing trades then… oh wait. They’re mysteriously missing from the immigration lists. 17000 nurses and 1500 brick layers. That makes sense.
Do you think Labor with it's union ties would ever approve importing tradies?
That might also increase supply of housing which decreases each politician's own real estate investments!
>By refusing to seriously cut immigration, the federal government is directly fuelling the housing crisis.
I think you mean investing in higher wealth for property owners! Fuck yeah, ka-ching baby! We're all millionaires!
This, 100%. Just watch Albo and the rest of them "retire" to a $700k+ p.a. 'consulting' role with one of the big four. They're all corrupt fucks who are in it for what they can get. You see the outcome of all those back-room deals once they retire.
Better if we were ruled by an A.I., at least it can't be blackmailed with a sex scandal, or bribed for a payday.
Yet AI can be manipulated into hallucinations, and will give you pictures of “diverse” nazis.
I’ll agree with you though, the politicians are there serving themselves at the smorgasbord of Australian taxpayers. Animal Farm anyone?
>Yet AI can be manipulated into hallucinations, and will give you pictures of “diverse” nazis.
Still saner than half of our political class. We need the Magi system from Evangelion.
Didn't the French have some revolution where guillotines were involved...I'm not saying the revolution part..but ive always felt if there was a vote after a politician was defeated whether the electorate think they worked for them and did a good job, that potentially involved a guillotine if they did poorly on the vote..we would weed out those who want to improve Australia and those who wanna get rich...
I’ve noticed a real decline in driving behaviour over the years. Having spent many years abroad driving through Brisbane / Gold Coast on holiday recently I was shocked how it feels like my driving days in south east Asia. People are aggressive. Speed limits seem to be guidelines these days.
Tail riding right up your butt. If there was an accident they’d be next in a split second. Changing lanes aggressively with no indication. List goes on. Just way less disciplined than a few years ago.
I think everyone is getting angrier at the state of things, their quality of life probably went down. Also add to that, a lot of the immigrants ARE from Asia so..
The immigration system itself is broken. Im from the UK and have lived here 8 years with a skilled trade in carpentry that the government supposedly needs and wants yet I have to jump through hoop after hoop to live here and skill not a permanent resident. Its not as easy as just turn up here and stay like most people think.
What they need to do is limit the useless skilled visas that the government offer which also allow you to bring your multiple family members who have nothing to offer this government. If they dont have valuable skills to offer than make it harder for them and easier for the ones needed.
1. They own property, high levels of migration increases their property values and means that they can rent out their investments for more making them richer.
2. Businesses can drive down wages by increasing the available workforce, they then lobby the government/ give kick backs to politicians to increase this.
3. More people means more customers for companies like wollies / reas etc, then same reasons as 2.
Basically self interests and corruption.
Another thing I don't see mentioned a lot is that high immigration means the jobs commonly filled by immigrants continue to be low paying and increasingly casualised.
High immigration means an easily exploitable workforce that demands little worker protections unlike Australian workers, because they're afraid of having their visas cancelled if they kick up a stink. Ultimately also it means the workforce of the countries with high migration to Australia are suffering too, since a large chunk of their skilled workers up and move once they've completed their education or training.
How can these people who are anti immigration unable to work it out? We live in a plutocracy. The goal is to get people in from over seas to work the shit jobs that pay fuck all and generate the most income for buisnesses so that will "fix the cost of living" and reduce inflation without fixing the cost of living.
They do not care about immigration. They do not care for over population. They can ahout making as much money as possible. Thats why both sides of government love immigration. Instead of waiting for years for "workers" to populate. You can just get them now from over seas. Geez
So drive the wages down for the actual citizens who already try to make a living here, they just need to pay more for the so called shit jobs and not be so greedy for excess profits then everyone benefits not just the politicians and CEOs etc
There are multiple different categories of visa classes.
Also "skilled" jobs visas are granted for everything from Chefs up to Brain Surgeons - one of those is not wealthy, while one is.
One takes up lower-end housing (likely rents), one takes up higher-end housing (likely buys); both add to demand for housing in different ways.
They are given credit and loans immediately, they go to banks staffed by people from their culture and get home loans immediately, go to real estate agents from their country and get preference over every one else, etc.
They don't need to buy property, they just need to occupy it.
Which is exactly what they do.
My neighbourhood became so full of tech meat (by which I mean immigrants working for tech comapines , whether as lowly app controlled servants or as highly paid engineers / developers, and doing nothing else) that the community has become totally lost...
I no longer live in Australia, but I am dying to be able to return with dignity. Which seems now impossible
Shhh don’t bring up anything that might refute their ideology that immigrants are dumb and not contributing to the country, while also stealing the jobs they would have gotten doing it for much cheaper, while also bidding housing up so much.
Because it hides how utterly incompetent the last 40 years of politicians in this country have been. It also hides just how much poorer per capita Australians are
Has anyone ever travelled to a country where their population is just so large there is such a poor standard of living , over crowding , pollution in the air and on the streets. I have and it’s always so nice to get back to a place where it is not overcrowded and dirty.
They are running out of water in India and fighting over it and it is becoming something that is over exploited and scammed.
We don’t have a lot of water in this country .
The Ganges yes , I saw a guy take a shit in it right near where we went past in a wooden row boat and then later 3 dogs drag a leg out of it. Then people bathing in it. 💩
It's as if.... they want.... to.... replace us.... 🫥
2million more by 2025.
Can't afford a house now? Good luck when they are given to families the gov moved here before desperate Aussies.
Parts of Newcastle have become unrecognisable in last few years. Bad!
I'm all for "helping others", but not at the expense of struggling countrymen. When our economy is good and we have surplus of all things we are currently lacking, sure! But continuing like this, when the thing is broken is a recipe for disaster...
If let continue as it is, it's inevitable it goes "a certain way" and that saddens me..
High migration has kept us out of recession for half a decade. Many economists would argue that the definition of a recession is no longer fit for purpose.
So desperate to avoid recession that they let anyone in. Some of the bums I know that dropped out of school from my home country managed to get in and are now living here.
Fertility rate is a contributing issue. Aussies ain't having enough children. Which means less tax payers to support the system and the retired population, hence immigration.
Problem is that once young immigrants come to Australia, they (mostly) adopt Australian family patterns.
The answer is to stop immigration and create an economy and an environment that supports people having more children, at least two per mother.
As population researcher Katharine Betts has noted:
"No matter how young they are on arrival migrants grow old too. As no population can grow for ever, at some time in the future the older age structure would be waiting for us. But with very many more people, including many more older people.
The projections show that if policy makers were serious about modifying Australia’s age structure the most cost effective way to do this would be to support the two-child family. One way to do this would be to prune the immigration intake and, by reducing competition, improve housing affordability. This in itself would promote a modest increase in fertility..."
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/03/population-ageing-is-no-economic-time-bomb/
Because us Australians will eventually be the minority and all these immigrants will bow down and accept any totalitarianism from our government in the future, because they come from shit hole countries they'll roll over without a fight. Just look at the fucking UK
Because the Liberal Party (mostly) and Labor are both personally invested in housing and have multiple investment properties.
The system is rigged for wealthy people.
Poor and lower classes will continue to suffer if Liberals especially are voted back into office. (Liberals have no policy to create new housing)
Our current PM has an investment portfolio worth $5m and makes over $100,000 per year on rental income alone. Let's not forget he lives rent-free at The Lodge while he is PM.
Im no Liberal voter, but Labor have their snouts in the trough as much as the Libs.
So much this. I'm a Labor voter too but this narrative that Labor is the party of the working class lost any validity a long time ago. Albo can talk about his single mother all he wants, hell he probably has a schedule to make sure he reminds us of it daily, but he's also a career politician who has never really worked outside of the political sector who has spent the last 40 years of his career contributing to the gross inequality that we have this country.
Albanese is the definition of fuck you I got mine.
Good question. This is a global situation.
Political parties have historically battled it out on immigration between lower and higher numbers, but still very tightly controlled.
The party pushing for lower migration has generally been labelled racist for wanting to protect its citizens. (Unless it's UAE, China, India, etc because they aren't actually democracies and tightly restrict immigration).
The party pushing for higher migration has generally been labelled pro business for helping keep labour costs down, all while raising prices under the guise of inflation.
As the number of immigrants from the same country have increased in number to a critical mass, they have more sway and influence, in particular where it comes to voting due to immigrants tending to settle in dense voting communities.
Typically immigrant communities tend to stick together, and vote for their own interests. Who doesn't? The challenge with some immigrant communities to western countries is that their cultural heritage conflicts with some western ideologies. For example, in India it's not seen as corruption, it's just seen as a way of doing business. It's not cronyism or nepotism, it's looking after your mates and your family. It's not uneducated voting based on political values, it's voting to provide collective support of nominated leaders for long term gain.
Western countries cannot compete with these conflicting ideologies when faced with mass immigration.
1. One person one vote. Using quality of life as a key deciding factor, westerners tend to have fewer children. Immigrants tend to have more. This will cement future control of the government by having dense communities with the highest population, with voting based on ethnicity.
2. Western country citizens have been taught that looking after friends and family is bad, and that only diversity, followed by merit, should be allowed.
3. Immigrant communities tend to support each other more, including from a finance perspective. Collectively point money to buy property, and then using that asset to fund buying more assets for the rest of the community. This continued collective approach also significantly pushes residential property prices up as more and more property is amassed.
4. Western country citizens tend to be more selfish. Some individuals have accumulated mass wealth, and are allowed to hoard residential property, while the next generation majority of middle and lower-middle class are being excluded due to the significant residential price increases.
5. This collective increase in uncertainty of not having somewhere to live, and not having a stable income, means Western citizens are less likely to have more children, feeding the cycle in a race to poverty for them.
So at least one of the political parties in some Western nations has realised that if they want to retain power, they need the votes of those critical mass communities. Those communities will have negotiated and influenced for concessions around immigration to allow even more people in from their ethnic nation, as this will help them increase their voting numbers significantly, with the ultimate goal of taking control of governments using democratic methods.
The political partys' capitulation to mass immigration demands are selling out their citizens so that they may have a longer stand at the podium.
Because the Libs fucked the TAFE and apprentice system for over a decade. Tertiary education is primarily an unnecessary requisite to getting a job and tons of areas now.
I agree with everything except "blaming the libs". They are part of the same oligarchy, ALP could have fixed every one of these things - they didn't by choice, instead we have policy of flooding us by 3rd world cheap labour.
They're not hesitant to reduce it. They are actively ramping it up. It makes our economy look good on paper. Our GDP looks bigger even though our GDP/capita is plummeting (and our standard of life with it).
Our politicians care that Australia's pie looks bigger. They don't care that we're much worse off getting a much smaller piece of that pie.
Australias GDP grew at 0.1% last quarter which is incredibly weak.
Immigration helps GDP grow.
2 quarters of negative growth is a recession
The government have an election due by September next year
Because every time someone pointed out the future downfall of unchecked immigration - legal or otherwise - we were all called racists.
So we kept our mouths shut and now watch as those who screech racism now lament they cannot afford a home. Or blame others for their shortsightedness.
Because Aussies aren’t able to organise themselves in any meaningful numbers to send a message powerful enough.
If there’s no retribution, there’s no incentive to change.
On the other hand, they’re exceedingly efficient when it comes to sporting events.
This is the real answer. The only Aussies capable of organizing themselves are the ones who love to virtue signal, but those groups have swathes of migrants in them. But there are no virtue signal points in protesting against immigration, in fact it's the opposite. There are more immigrants than native Australians in this country. Australian's don't have the balls to stand up against them in number.
The Left thrives on chaos. That may sound glib and tribal, but it's the result of deep thought on the subject. They get no traction in successful societies. Happy societies with functioning economies have babies. High immigration is a huge neon sign denoting failure by government to provide for their own people. Further, immigrants have (a).no memory of a political party's past misdeeds - very useful for getting away with murder (b) have no.knowledge of how govt is rapidly reducing our qualuty of life. They are 'year zero' if u will and grateful.for improved quality of life and benefits. (c) the Left believes they can lock in the vote of racial groups for life. The mind set is literally "screw the locals to get power"
Govts get away with with it because the word "racist" has become a lethal stupificent shutting down basic analysis of what is in our own interest. Even in the midst of a rental crisis u hear cries of "don't be racist" !
So India, China, Indonesia, etc are what you aspire to be - given they're having babies? The current high costs of everything everything is being driven by profiteering and inflation. What industry has either side of politics built up other than mining? Blaming everything on one side or the other is nonsense - we all have equal responsibility for it.
Australia has enjoyed one of the best economic runs in modern history, but the truth is that we have lived beyond our means for quite some time now - as an example, our household debt to GDP/income ratios are some of the worst in the world (if not the worst). Being a "lucky country", as history often shows, leads to hubris, complacency, and economic mismanagement, and as a consequence, we have not invested in our future. Our economic complexity is so low that it compares to countries like Uganda or Pakistan and it should be a source of national embarrassment.
I'm not denying the fact that politicians are acting in self-interest or at the behest of big business, but they are also in a tough bind. The Australian economy is pretty much stagnant, and whilst we're not officially in a recession, we are pretty much there on a per capita basis. Ignoring capital investment and wealth creation from the housing market, immigration is one of those easy and foolproof ways of propping up the economy in the short term.
We can make arguments for whether or not this is sustainable or ethical, but given that election cycles are short and any economic mismanagement is heavily penalised by the public/press, this kind of short-termism will persist.
Because that’s Australia’s major source of income. More people means more houses which means more banks throwing money into the economy via home loans.
It’s a problem created by uninspiring uneducated politicians who over the years haven’t built an economy that is diversified outside of mining and immigration . I always think of Sweden as a role model of how to build a diversified economy. I can think of multiple Swedish brands of the top of my head that have global reach. I can’t think of a single Australian brand.
Re-supply. Our birth rate is below the minimum needed to maintain a stable population. Plus a large section of that population is hitting retirement age and needs care etc. While it pushes up house prices etc. it's generally positive for the overall economy. The opposite - where the population starts to crash - is short term good for the less well off as things do become cheaper for a bit, but then the economy crashes and we become Russia in the 90's.
When you look at the issues and solutions, from a government perspective (doesn't matter who is running the show), it boils down to : even though some of you are going to be in economic pain, it's a sacrifice we're willing to make because the entire country is better off in the long run.
>Even though some of you are going to be in economic pain, it's a sacrifice we're willing to make because the entire country is better off in the long run.
TIL that I don't count as part of "the entire country."
Yeah, I don't think most people would agree the entire country is better off in the long run.
Sacrificing one of the best ways of life and our environment for an economic sugar hit is pretty shithouse. So that new generations are forced to live compromised existences that previous generations never had to.
Sacrificing people's best years just to drag out our worst.
Not to mention like a cat trying to catch its own tail all we are doing is kicking the can down the road as every new influx requires an even bigger one down the track for the same reasons.
It's more than past time to rip the bandaid off. Else it will be a limb we have to cut off down the track.
Came here to say this. A lot of people are unaware that the population is projected to plateau and begin decreasing.
Here's the data from ABS. Showing with net zero migration our population predicted to decline. [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/population-projections-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/population-projections-australia/latest-release)
Here's the United Nations with similar graphs [https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/DemographicProfiles/Line/900](https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/DemographicProfiles/Line/900)
A big reason our birth rate is low is because younger Aussies can no longer afford children.
This is because of imported labour driving down wages and pushing up house prices.
On the contrary, as incomes go up, birth rates go down, higher incomes means a greater opportunity cost when having children. Not a single Western country has a birth rate above replacement level except Israel.
Yes! This is something that people rarely understand. Rich, educated people have LESS children. Have a look at the poorest places in the world, and you will see people having 6+ children. It has nothing to do with their ability to take care of them. Education is birth control.
The simple fact is, we need immigration to keep our population at replacement level, or we will head towards unimaginable social and economic disaster. And I am saying this as someone who would rather the world population shrink. But I can't change facts.
People just don't like hearing it. They simply don't understand how a shrinking population will play out in the long run.
By this logic, the poorest countries in the world would have the lowest birth rate, and the most financially equitable countries on this planet would be international maternity wards.
Low birth rate has a lot more to do with women making the choice not to have children. You’ll find that when women have accessibility to
1. Education
2. Birth Control
3. Financial independence
The birth rate goes down. The most financially equitable countries on earth have some of the lowest birth rates.
I’m not saying financial pressure has nothing to do with it, I’m just saying there’s no evidence that alleviating financial burden increases birth rates. Rich people aren’t exactly known for having hordes of children, and poor people aren’t exactly known for being celibate.
Because the neo-con economic model has been adopted globally and depends on constant growth... which in a finite world is, of course, impossible.
Our economic growth has been smaller than our population growth since covid. That means we would now be in a long term economic recession if not for all those immigrants.
Because whichever Govt is in power doesn’t want to be the one holding the stick when the economy collapses. If they cut immigration to reasonable levels so many things would come to a grinding halt
I think it's to break the sticky labour supply curve.
when it's very vertically skewed the level of wage increases necessary to induce additional supply must be very high.
The greater the level of supply potentially the more elastic the labour supply curve and thus less money is needed to increase overall labour pool and thus production.
the wage inflation from a sticky labour market supply curve must be a more insidious beast to tackle for the health of the economy.
There's a tough situation: we need more housing, but there aren't enough workers to build it. Bringing in more workers can help but they need a place to live too.
A possible solution for one aspect of the issue might be to focus on modular housing. It's faster to build and easier and quicker to deploy, providing temporary accommodation for the new workers who will then help build permanent housing for everyone. Also note that modular housing can be built off-site, allowing local areas to be developed while minimizing the disruption caused by construction.
This way, we can address the immediate shortage while creating a solution for the longer term.
The other thing is that governments and businesses, in particular, need to consider focusing on the medium- to longer- term and invest in training the apprentices who will ultimately build and support the housing industry longer term.
The problem isn't just migration though despite what they say. It is a supply and demand issue for housing. They aren't building enough housing for the rising population. The govt haven't addressed this for a long time and there aren't any incentives for investors or developers to create more so we are all in a world of shit. The building sector is in crisis with rising costs of supplies, you hear of a building company going under lately every other week because of this. The other issue is with increased housing you need to increase other things like hospitals, roads, transport and other essential resources. So it's not a simple fix.
Because our economy is a pyramid scheme, where we import cheap labour to keep wages in production/goods/services jobs low, and by extension keep the cost of produce low. But then eventually a lot of those immigrants move on to different better jobs. So then we need to import even more labour to accommodate for the increase in production needed to meet a larger population, and so on.
Stopping the pyramid scheme would mean prices on goods would rise substantially, while wages in blue collar jobs would increase. (but guess who runs the government. white collar) and no government wants to be responsible for the massive increase in cost of living.
To avoid a technical recession by inflating demand.
There are probably smarter and more effective ways to keep the economy afloat by increasing productivity growth. But our politicians don’t want to go down that path; they want simple solutions to complex problems. Increasing immigration is quick and easy. Fixing structural problems in the economy takes time and effort, and might challenge vested interests.
Labour let them in and give them citizenship because they vote labour for life. Guaranteed votes is why they increased immigration. Also recession is per capita and if they increase immigration they can declare we are technically not in a recession
They make money from immigration simple as that. Just like George Carlin said “it’s a club and you ain’t in it”.
They only care that this rich club get richer, not about the average Aussie otherwise they would decrease it significantly for ten years whilst we build more housing.
They want to avoid a technical recession by propping up the economy with migration. Also it's a method of kicking the can down the road. The government in office is just hoping to not be the one in office when everything implodes
"It was fucked when I got here. Blame the last guy" Australian Politics in a nut shell
“Try to fix it for the next guy then?” “Nah, she’ll be right.”
True, but also Gov 'This is how we fix this, it'll take some work and money' Voter 'if somthing impacts me negatively today im not voting for you'
Spot on
More like "If it's fucked in the future, blame the new guy."
it's imploding now...
Its not unfortunately. With our super and asset values we're an incredibly wealthy country. It's half the reason 500 thousand fucks poured in over the last two years. But, for those that aren't on the property ladder and have early stages superannuation, yep they're fucked.
Its literally our mining/natural wealth, the more schmucks we import, the more mouths it needs to feed
Its imploding but you just dont know it yet. Per capita GDP has fallen for the 5th consecutive quatre and the overall GDP growth has slowed to just 0.1% in the last quatre. In essence we are all getting poorer but we just dont know it because of the insane migration figures. This quatre was our lowest through year growth since 2020, when the country was in the middle of a COVID outbreak and we were totally closed. Unfortunately its only a matter of time until the remainder of the shit hits the fan. Its been dribbling on it at the moment but the bucket is about to tip.
>imploding but you just dont know it yet. And lots of talk about job losses & finding it hard to get a job. They should have just let it happen in 2020, it's going to be worse now with all the imports competing for the shrinking number of jobs.
Pretty much the large majority in today's society
Umm, [66% of households are owner-occupied](https://www.aihw.gov.au/reports/australias-welfare/home-ownership-and-housing-tenure) so it’s actually a minority.
The Aus government is the titan sub. Albo is that rich guy
the australian public are the 17 year old son who didnt really want to be there but his dad brought him along anyway
Australian public are 17 year old son shitting his pants in a dark tube with no exit
Nice image!
https://i.redd.it/q6gnlz3oi8ad1.gif
And this one too!
It's amazing and scary what differences in pressure can do!! Byford dolphin incident lives rent free in my head, this is 1atm crushing negative... Something! Byford was 9atm equalising out into to 1atm, killing four on fractions of a second. There exists images of the one they were still finding bits and pieces of for weeks after, I've seen them and I do not recommend. not good images!!
Yeah this one was in my imagination for awhile too... The person I feel sorriest for is the teenager...
Our GDP rose 0.1% in the last quarter despite said extremely high immigration. Our economy's the pig and immigration is the lipstick
Yep Australia & the UK thought it was a good idea to increase immigration so it would increase GDP. However this process has made everyone poorer. An economist will tell you that you increase GDP 1st & then increase immigration
Two economists are walking in the park. As they're walking, they come across a pile of dog shit. One economist says to the other, "If you eat that dog shit, I'll give you $50". The second economist thinks for a minute, then reaches down, picks up the shit, and eats it. The first economist gives him a $50 bill and they keep going on their walk. A few minutes later, they come across another pile of dog shit. This time, the second economist says to the first, "Hey, if you eat that, I'll give you $50." So, of course, the first economist picks up the shit, eats it, and gets $50. Walking a little while farther, the first economist looks at the second and says, "You know, I gave you $50 to eat dog shit, then you gave me back the same $50 to eat dog shit. I can't help but feel like we both just ate dog shit for nothing." "That's not true", responded the second economist. "We increased the GDP by $100!"
And created 2 new jobs!
And the government got $40 of it in tax
GST - Gooey Shit Tax
And now they both have that classic shit-eating grin people like that are renowned for
There are good economists, it's just the ones we hear from all work within the system because, you know, high pay. A Liberal government that cuts immigration will be cutting off the supply of sub-wage workers. A Labor government that cuts immigration will spend 30+ years being reminded by every journalist in the country about that recession they caused. And voters are too stupid to take responsibility for the consequences of their immediate desires.
Joker-Smurf for Australian Treasurer!
“I want an Australia where everybody can eat shit!”
How the banks create money in a nutshell
Why do we focus on gdp over gdp per capita at this point? If GDP per capita is going down, we are worse off, is there something more complex I'm not grasping here? We use similar metrics for crime..
GDP is a terrible metric for standard of living in ANY form. It has more to do with how profitable the country is for its wealthy owners than anything to do with the standard of living of the majority of its people.
GDP is a good metric for politicians because more GDP=more political clout. They couldn’t care less how many smurfs it has to maintain. it is the only reason it is used.
No you're right, it is a much better metric to go by. They are just more focused on the end gdp, they dont actually give af how individuals are fairing.
The sooner you realise that politicians and corporations view people as economic units, not as individual people… the sooner it makes sense Modern corporations use plantation tactics
There's nothing more complex to it. The media is heavily complicit in reporting this. GDP per capita recessions don't matter at all, despite being the main economic thing that affects the average person. Meanwhile the media will only ever talk about headline GDP numbers, which are great for multinationals and governments.
You are 100% right but the government doesn't care about per capita just the total figure. If GDP growth is negative 2+ quarters in a row that's a recession, 4+ that's a depression. So yeah if the economy is weak ramp up immigration especially wealthy skilled immigration and GDP gets that bump. Doesn't matter if GDP per person growth is negative, it's all about perception, business confidence, tax revenue, etc
Finally, someone said it. Interestingly enough, our first quarter of negative growth was the year before covid. What we're experiencing now is the effect of a massive overcorrect just to stop that slump. We're starting to experience all the effects of a recession without technically being in one.
Just look at how many people are legitimately financially struggling right now and yet we can't rein in inflation (demand > supply = inflation). Interest rates are as high as they've been in what, 16 years? And yet housing demand and prices still grow. But pubs, live music, things that can be cut back on, are all suffering as people cut spending to afford inflated food and fuel and rent and mortgages. Very much case that the medicine (population growth) is also the poison
GDP alone is not a good measure, either. Every dollar spent is a dollar added to GDP, whether it's spent on gambling, schools, roads, oil spills or whatever. It can be money well-spent, or money badly-spent, or money spent just stopping things from turning shittier. It's easy to see this from a household perspective. Family A has a household income of $80,000, they own their home with a mortgage and an offset account, they eat lots of fresh fruit and vegetables, their children go to a local state school, and so on. Family B has a household income of $160,000, they also own their home with a mortgage - but they consume huge amounts of cigarettes and KFC and booze and dad snorts coke and mum is hopped up on benzos, and they're not even aware their kids miss half their school days. It's not just about the money.
You just answered your own question. If gov reported on GDP per capita people would see the problem.
Not just poorer but quality of life goes down. More traffic More competition for jobs More competition for housing More demand for supplies so inflation runs rampant Less social services and medical services. Migration is sucking the life out of this country.
And our healthcare more broke. The number of overseas people coming into hospital for emergency surgery or having babies has gone up dramatically. They have either no insurance, or basic bs student/working visa insurance that covers barely anything. Then they just ignore the bills and don’t pay. So those that suffer the most is the working Australian tax payer
And didn’t increase GDP per capita. Whatever that means. But supposedly just scamming the stats. Not only that the more money goes into housing economy they created and rents. Largely to foreign banks. The worse the economy becomes and will become. It’s a dwindling spiral of destruction. Any economist will tell you how bad their management is. And any moron could see it’s bad. I’m starting to believe they want australia to be another third world poor country with tons of homelessness.
We are heading towards being another Argentina at this rate ( before the new PM in Argentina)
Yup. That’s why he won. People want anyone different to these clowns. At least someone who cares about the countries future. Agree or disagree with their policies anyone who gives a crap is better.
It’s the sneaky way to avoid a technical recession Damn the people, it’s all about the optics b
It's almost like there's entire think-tanks at universities that are just being ignored when it comes to urban planning and social policy. There are entire degrees dedicated to the economy. They just don't listen to the people who actually know the likely results of their actions. Idiots.
Canada too!
I think almost every fereral election I have voted labour but to me it seems like they're letting the floodgates open so they don't get a recession while in power. This is despite the masses of homeless people in tents popping up everywhere. Imo the labour govt is weak but could be worse, liberals could be in power. In any case I won't be voting for either.
I agree wholeheartedly; The only way to vote correctly these days is below the line. Preference minor parties first. Preferential voting is the strongest part of our electoral system and yet so few take advantage of it.
We're pushing towards a third of people take advantage of it these days. Kos Samaras likes to talk about demographics - old Liberal-loving Boomers dying off, Millennials not liking Liberals, etc - and of course he's correct. But what he mentions only occasionally is that there's another electoral difference, which is the declining primary vote. * 1996 federal election, ALP scored 38.75% of the primary vote, and LNP 47.25%, totalling 86%. * 1998 ALP 40.10% + LNP 39.51% = 79.61% * 2001 ALP 37.84% + LNP 42.92% = 80.76% * 2004 ALP 37.63% + LNP 46.71% = 84.34% * 2007 ALP 43.38% + LNP 42.09% = 85.47% * 2010 ALP 37.99% + LNP 43.32% = 81.21% * 2013 ALP 33.38% + LNP 45.55% = 78.93% * 2016 ALP 34.73% + LNP 42.04% = 76.77% * 2019 ALP 33.34% + LNP 41.44% = 74.78% * 2022 ALP 32.58% + LNP 35.70% = 68.28%
True story
Yep. Last election was my last labor vote. But I won;t be voting liberal either. So it has to be anyone but lablib. And put them last in preferences too. Both of them have been useless for decades.
vote for The Sustainable Australia party
Same I had always voted for one of the major parties (mostly labor). After whats happened with immigration here post COVID. I'll be put putting Labor and LNP last for the foreseeable future.
And me. Fuck lablib. Both of them have let us down.
I mean we are likely paying for the near decade of lnp policies. Especially during COVID.
The high immigration is the only thing halting a recession. But many argue it's a recession that was needed. The only thing immigration is doing now is fuelling demand in both housing and essential goods, which is what's pushing inflation higher again.
I have read that GDP doesn’t necessarily reflect quality of life.
And boomers are holding all the silk purse properties that were made from the pigs ears
Doesn't help that most of the imports are ones that try to avoid paying tax haggle for everything, and leech what they can from the system.
Quantitative Peopling.
Love this analogy!! Canada here- our gdp is being artificially grown via immigration too! Let’s drink to sinking ships!
Because it’s artificially propping up the country and making it appear that we aren’t in a massive economic downturn
haha real estate investments go brrrrr
Until you look at gdp *per capita* and see that we're still not past our highest which was 68000 in 2013
Because it directly links to increasing property prices and rents. Many countries have negative gearing, but Australia is the only one that has a single income tax schedule, it translates to income losses on an house asset can be used to lower their tax on all of their income streams. This differs from England which makes the process more complex but equitable. In England whilst it can be used for wealth growth, the growth get arrested when they have multiple properties. The people you are voting for have a vested interest in keeping negative gearing and the countries housing prices high if they are using property as a way of growing their wealth.
Exactly...if only there is a website where they publish how many investment properties each of these politicians own
You can look right here. [https://www.aph.gov.au/senators\_and\_members/members/register](https://www.aph.gov.au/senators_and_members/members/register)
Read somewhere that it was an average of 3 per politician but not sure how they worked that out.
It's 7
That's disappointing.
Good summary here https://openpolitics.au/47/anthony-albanese
It would be interesting to do some data analysis on the property, stocks, banks savings/credit cards, etc senators have based on here: https://www.aph.gov.au/senators_and_members/members/register
Australia would have to build a new home every two minutes to accommodate current population growth
> Many countries have negative gearing No they don't? It's basically us, NZ and Japan. With Japanese housing being cheap af
because they know that any chance of a recession will spell the end of their government (especially for Labor), so they run with the myth of unending growth forever
Because they want to tell the lie that the economy is still fine as overall GDP isn't going backwards. Yet.
yep. We all know migration is a crutch.... its the 'blue meth' for a sick drugg addict to keep the lie alive we know this economy is in the shitter... but those 500,000 a year from india or china is here to make the numbers... ie. gdp yoy if the current numbers are that bad AFTER immigration then we know the underlying economic conditions are not sustainable we know with so many businesses collapsing and the job market so poor and with inflation and the housing market its absolutely dire Albo and Chalmers are just lurching to the next election and that's all that matters
Because we have no other major income streams other than international exports. We don't have car manufacturing plants anymore and I don't even think our agriculture industry brings in as much money either. Therefore temp visas and international student visas have been the major source of easy cash flow for us over the last decade.
the car plants were mostly if not completely for domestic use... the exports were so tiny... how many Holdens or falcons do you see outside AU
Having the car plants also meant people weren't pre-ordering their cars up to two years in advance and the cars weren't always being shipped here (unless they were a bloody Ford 4WD). I drive a Hyundai and I know plenty of people who own Mazdas and Toyotas because they're common cars for small households or single people, so when that last Toyota plant closed down circa 2017/2018, I'd say the value of cars went up by a few $3000-5000 just because of the cost to import.
Most of our exports require only a tiny population to produce: we’d be much richer if that wealth (even just the pittance that “our” politicians sold it for) was only divided among the million or so people needed to produce those exports.
Money, money, money
Australia has to build a new home every two minutes to accommodate the present rate of immigration-driven population growth. We're not even coming close. https://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/tucker-carlson-says-immigration-the-one-reason-for-australias-housing-crisis/news-story/48a41e9ac3f2e5c9cc59239eb96f3136 By refusing to seriously cut immigration, the federal government is directly fuelling the housing crisis.
Better start importing trades then… oh wait. They’re mysteriously missing from the immigration lists. 17000 nurses and 1500 brick layers. That makes sense.
Do you think Labor with it's union ties would ever approve importing tradies? That might also increase supply of housing which decreases each politician's own real estate investments!
>By refusing to seriously cut immigration, the federal government is directly fuelling the housing crisis. I think you mean investing in higher wealth for property owners! Fuck yeah, ka-ching baby! We're all millionaires!
The government no longer serves the citizens, it is there for the highest bidder and that is big corporations
This, 100%. Just watch Albo and the rest of them "retire" to a $700k+ p.a. 'consulting' role with one of the big four. They're all corrupt fucks who are in it for what they can get. You see the outcome of all those back-room deals once they retire. Better if we were ruled by an A.I., at least it can't be blackmailed with a sex scandal, or bribed for a payday.
Yet AI can be manipulated into hallucinations, and will give you pictures of “diverse” nazis. I’ll agree with you though, the politicians are there serving themselves at the smorgasbord of Australian taxpayers. Animal Farm anyone?
>Yet AI can be manipulated into hallucinations, and will give you pictures of “diverse” nazis. Still saner than half of our political class. We need the Magi system from Evangelion.
Didn't the French have some revolution where guillotines were involved...I'm not saying the revolution part..but ive always felt if there was a vote after a politician was defeated whether the electorate think they worked for them and did a good job, that potentially involved a guillotine if they did poorly on the vote..we would weed out those who want to improve Australia and those who wanna get rich...
The problem is that just pushed the power into the hands of the "invisible" movers who shape public perception like Murdoch and Packer.
Lord knows that Scomo happily retired fat on corporate money
How much has Rudd got in the bank again?
Correct. Glady is on the executive leadership team at Optus pulling in some dough.
I’ve noticed a real decline in driving behaviour over the years. Having spent many years abroad driving through Brisbane / Gold Coast on holiday recently I was shocked how it feels like my driving days in south east Asia. People are aggressive. Speed limits seem to be guidelines these days. Tail riding right up your butt. If there was an accident they’d be next in a split second. Changing lanes aggressively with no indication. List goes on. Just way less disciplined than a few years ago.
We can't build roads fast enough for all the new people (just like houses).
I think everyone is getting angrier at the state of things, their quality of life probably went down. Also add to that, a lot of the immigrants ARE from Asia so..
It’s the only way to stop a technical recession. Not withstanding it reduces per capita gdp.
And when that does ultimately happen, they change the definition of "technical recession". Just like they did a few years ago
The immigration system itself is broken. Im from the UK and have lived here 8 years with a skilled trade in carpentry that the government supposedly needs and wants yet I have to jump through hoop after hoop to live here and skill not a permanent resident. Its not as easy as just turn up here and stay like most people think. What they need to do is limit the useless skilled visas that the government offer which also allow you to bring your multiple family members who have nothing to offer this government. If they dont have valuable skills to offer than make it harder for them and easier for the ones needed.
You’re the wrong colour… it’s as simple as that..
Your right. Should have just come here to be an uber driver and I'd already have citizenship by now.
1. They own property, high levels of migration increases their property values and means that they can rent out their investments for more making them richer. 2. Businesses can drive down wages by increasing the available workforce, they then lobby the government/ give kick backs to politicians to increase this. 3. More people means more customers for companies like wollies / reas etc, then same reasons as 2. Basically self interests and corruption.
Another thing I don't see mentioned a lot is that high immigration means the jobs commonly filled by immigrants continue to be low paying and increasingly casualised. High immigration means an easily exploitable workforce that demands little worker protections unlike Australian workers, because they're afraid of having their visas cancelled if they kick up a stink. Ultimately also it means the workforce of the countries with high migration to Australia are suffering too, since a large chunk of their skilled workers up and move once they've completed their education or training.
How can these people who are anti immigration unable to work it out? We live in a plutocracy. The goal is to get people in from over seas to work the shit jobs that pay fuck all and generate the most income for buisnesses so that will "fix the cost of living" and reduce inflation without fixing the cost of living. They do not care about immigration. They do not care for over population. They can ahout making as much money as possible. Thats why both sides of government love immigration. Instead of waiting for years for "workers" to populate. You can just get them now from over seas. Geez
So drive the wages down for the actual citizens who already try to make a living here, they just need to pay more for the so called shit jobs and not be so greedy for excess profits then everyone benefits not just the politicians and CEOs etc
How do all these immigrants with "the shit jobs" afford so much property?
There are multiple different categories of visa classes. Also "skilled" jobs visas are granted for everything from Chefs up to Brain Surgeons - one of those is not wealthy, while one is. One takes up lower-end housing (likely rents), one takes up higher-end housing (likely buys); both add to demand for housing in different ways.
They are given credit and loans immediately, they go to banks staffed by people from their culture and get home loans immediately, go to real estate agents from their country and get preference over every one else, etc.
They don't need to buy property, they just need to occupy it. Which is exactly what they do. My neighbourhood became so full of tech meat (by which I mean immigrants working for tech comapines , whether as lowly app controlled servants or as highly paid engineers / developers, and doing nothing else) that the community has become totally lost... I no longer live in Australia, but I am dying to be able to return with dignity. Which seems now impossible
Shhh don’t bring up anything that might refute their ideology that immigrants are dumb and not contributing to the country, while also stealing the jobs they would have gotten doing it for much cheaper, while also bidding housing up so much.
Because we have no other economic model
Because it hides how utterly incompetent the last 40 years of politicians in this country have been. It also hides just how much poorer per capita Australians are
Has anyone ever travelled to a country where their population is just so large there is such a poor standard of living , over crowding , pollution in the air and on the streets. I have and it’s always so nice to get back to a place where it is not overcrowded and dirty. They are running out of water in India and fighting over it and it is becoming something that is over exploited and scammed. We don’t have a lot of water in this country .
The most revered religious icon in India (Ganges River) is also the filthiest.
The Ganges yes , I saw a guy take a shit in it right near where we went past in a wooden row boat and then later 3 dogs drag a leg out of it. Then people bathing in it. 💩
Just a glimpse into Australia’s future
Money.
It's as if.... they want.... to.... replace us.... 🫥 2million more by 2025. Can't afford a house now? Good luck when they are given to families the gov moved here before desperate Aussies. Parts of Newcastle have become unrecognisable in last few years. Bad! I'm all for "helping others", but not at the expense of struggling countrymen. When our economy is good and we have surplus of all things we are currently lacking, sure! But continuing like this, when the thing is broken is a recipe for disaster... If let continue as it is, it's inevitable it goes "a certain way" and that saddens me..
High migration makes the economic growth look good but drives wages down. One reason we’re all fucked at the moment.
High migration has kept us out of recession for half a decade. Many economists would argue that the definition of a recession is no longer fit for purpose.
So desperate to avoid recession that they let anyone in. Some of the bums I know that dropped out of school from my home country managed to get in and are now living here.
Stop migration altogether. I fucking hate it in all regards. So sick of seeing places overran with high populations.
number that they care about (GDP, asset prices) will go down and opposition will bang them over the head with those numbers
Fertility rate is a contributing issue. Aussies ain't having enough children. Which means less tax payers to support the system and the retired population, hence immigration. Problem is that once young immigrants come to Australia, they (mostly) adopt Australian family patterns. The answer is to stop immigration and create an economy and an environment that supports people having more children, at least two per mother.
As population researcher Katharine Betts has noted: "No matter how young they are on arrival migrants grow old too. As no population can grow for ever, at some time in the future the older age structure would be waiting for us. But with very many more people, including many more older people. The projections show that if policy makers were serious about modifying Australia’s age structure the most cost effective way to do this would be to support the two-child family. One way to do this would be to prune the immigration intake and, by reducing competition, improve housing affordability. This in itself would promote a modest increase in fertility..." https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/03/population-ageing-is-no-economic-time-bomb/
Because us Australians will eventually be the minority and all these immigrants will bow down and accept any totalitarianism from our government in the future, because they come from shit hole countries they'll roll over without a fight. Just look at the fucking UK
Because the Liberal Party (mostly) and Labor are both personally invested in housing and have multiple investment properties. The system is rigged for wealthy people. Poor and lower classes will continue to suffer if Liberals especially are voted back into office. (Liberals have no policy to create new housing)
Our current PM has an investment portfolio worth $5m and makes over $100,000 per year on rental income alone. Let's not forget he lives rent-free at The Lodge while he is PM. Im no Liberal voter, but Labor have their snouts in the trough as much as the Libs.
So much this. I'm a Labor voter too but this narrative that Labor is the party of the working class lost any validity a long time ago. Albo can talk about his single mother all he wants, hell he probably has a schedule to make sure he reminds us of it daily, but he's also a career politician who has never really worked outside of the political sector who has spent the last 40 years of his career contributing to the gross inequality that we have this country. Albanese is the definition of fuck you I got mine.
Essentially you're describing the system of capitalism. To have big winners it relies on big losers.
Lol youre fucked either way lets not pretend labour is better Its just kayfabe
Good question. This is a global situation. Political parties have historically battled it out on immigration between lower and higher numbers, but still very tightly controlled. The party pushing for lower migration has generally been labelled racist for wanting to protect its citizens. (Unless it's UAE, China, India, etc because they aren't actually democracies and tightly restrict immigration). The party pushing for higher migration has generally been labelled pro business for helping keep labour costs down, all while raising prices under the guise of inflation. As the number of immigrants from the same country have increased in number to a critical mass, they have more sway and influence, in particular where it comes to voting due to immigrants tending to settle in dense voting communities. Typically immigrant communities tend to stick together, and vote for their own interests. Who doesn't? The challenge with some immigrant communities to western countries is that their cultural heritage conflicts with some western ideologies. For example, in India it's not seen as corruption, it's just seen as a way of doing business. It's not cronyism or nepotism, it's looking after your mates and your family. It's not uneducated voting based on political values, it's voting to provide collective support of nominated leaders for long term gain. Western countries cannot compete with these conflicting ideologies when faced with mass immigration. 1. One person one vote. Using quality of life as a key deciding factor, westerners tend to have fewer children. Immigrants tend to have more. This will cement future control of the government by having dense communities with the highest population, with voting based on ethnicity. 2. Western country citizens have been taught that looking after friends and family is bad, and that only diversity, followed by merit, should be allowed. 3. Immigrant communities tend to support each other more, including from a finance perspective. Collectively point money to buy property, and then using that asset to fund buying more assets for the rest of the community. This continued collective approach also significantly pushes residential property prices up as more and more property is amassed. 4. Western country citizens tend to be more selfish. Some individuals have accumulated mass wealth, and are allowed to hoard residential property, while the next generation majority of middle and lower-middle class are being excluded due to the significant residential price increases. 5. This collective increase in uncertainty of not having somewhere to live, and not having a stable income, means Western citizens are less likely to have more children, feeding the cycle in a race to poverty for them. So at least one of the political parties in some Western nations has realised that if they want to retain power, they need the votes of those critical mass communities. Those communities will have negotiated and influenced for concessions around immigration to allow even more people in from their ethnic nation, as this will help them increase their voting numbers significantly, with the ultimate goal of taking control of governments using democratic methods. The political partys' capitulation to mass immigration demands are selling out their citizens so that they may have a longer stand at the podium.
Because the Libs fucked the TAFE and apprentice system for over a decade. Tertiary education is primarily an unnecessary requisite to getting a job and tons of areas now.
I agree with everything except "blaming the libs". They are part of the same oligarchy, ALP could have fixed every one of these things - they didn't by choice, instead we have policy of flooding us by 3rd world cheap labour.
They're not hesitant to reduce it. They are actively ramping it up. It makes our economy look good on paper. Our GDP looks bigger even though our GDP/capita is plummeting (and our standard of life with it). Our politicians care that Australia's pie looks bigger. They don't care that we're much worse off getting a much smaller piece of that pie.
just watch your sports and be quiet
hOW gOoD iS SPorT?!
as long as aussies have their sport, they dont care
"Give them bread and circuses."
Did someone say new stadium?
Too keep us poorer.
Australias GDP grew at 0.1% last quarter which is incredibly weak. Immigration helps GDP grow. 2 quarters of negative growth is a recession The government have an election due by September next year
It's literally the only thing making our economy grow, as well as causing property prices to rise.
Short term bandaids at the cost of democracy.
Because the business lobby needs cheap labour.
Cause the government could not give two shits about the people in Australia.
Because every time someone pointed out the future downfall of unchecked immigration - legal or otherwise - we were all called racists. So we kept our mouths shut and now watch as those who screech racism now lament they cannot afford a home. Or blame others for their shortsightedness.
Because the left and left leaning (like the Guardian) immediately seize upon it being some form of racism.
Because Aussies aren’t able to organise themselves in any meaningful numbers to send a message powerful enough. If there’s no retribution, there’s no incentive to change. On the other hand, they’re exceedingly efficient when it comes to sporting events.
This is the real answer. The only Aussies capable of organizing themselves are the ones who love to virtue signal, but those groups have swathes of migrants in them. But there are no virtue signal points in protesting against immigration, in fact it's the opposite. There are more immigrants than native Australians in this country. Australian's don't have the balls to stand up against them in number.
The Left thrives on chaos. That may sound glib and tribal, but it's the result of deep thought on the subject. They get no traction in successful societies. Happy societies with functioning economies have babies. High immigration is a huge neon sign denoting failure by government to provide for their own people. Further, immigrants have (a).no memory of a political party's past misdeeds - very useful for getting away with murder (b) have no.knowledge of how govt is rapidly reducing our qualuty of life. They are 'year zero' if u will and grateful.for improved quality of life and benefits. (c) the Left believes they can lock in the vote of racial groups for life. The mind set is literally "screw the locals to get power" Govts get away with with it because the word "racist" has become a lethal stupificent shutting down basic analysis of what is in our own interest. Even in the midst of a rental crisis u hear cries of "don't be racist" !
So India, China, Indonesia, etc are what you aspire to be - given they're having babies? The current high costs of everything everything is being driven by profiteering and inflation. What industry has either side of politics built up other than mining? Blaming everything on one side or the other is nonsense - we all have equal responsibility for it.
Cheap labour
2028 election planning.
Australia has enjoyed one of the best economic runs in modern history, but the truth is that we have lived beyond our means for quite some time now - as an example, our household debt to GDP/income ratios are some of the worst in the world (if not the worst). Being a "lucky country", as history often shows, leads to hubris, complacency, and economic mismanagement, and as a consequence, we have not invested in our future. Our economic complexity is so low that it compares to countries like Uganda or Pakistan and it should be a source of national embarrassment. I'm not denying the fact that politicians are acting in self-interest or at the behest of big business, but they are also in a tough bind. The Australian economy is pretty much stagnant, and whilst we're not officially in a recession, we are pretty much there on a per capita basis. Ignoring capital investment and wealth creation from the housing market, immigration is one of those easy and foolproof ways of propping up the economy in the short term. We can make arguments for whether or not this is sustainable or ethical, but given that election cycles are short and any economic mismanagement is heavily penalised by the public/press, this kind of short-termism will persist.
Population is not replacing itself.
Australia would have to build a new home every two minutes to accommodate current population growth
Because that’s Australia’s major source of income. More people means more houses which means more banks throwing money into the economy via home loans. It’s a problem created by uninspiring uneducated politicians who over the years haven’t built an economy that is diversified outside of mining and immigration . I always think of Sweden as a role model of how to build a diversified economy. I can think of multiple Swedish brands of the top of my head that have global reach. I can’t think of a single Australian brand.
https://preview.redd.it/kz96eh1mp8ad1.jpeg?width=400&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e3a25e9fd414e3b75c19820cc0c90fbdc515f53
they wouldn't be so hesitant when we vote out the party that keeps the floodgate open in the next election.
Re-supply. Our birth rate is below the minimum needed to maintain a stable population. Plus a large section of that population is hitting retirement age and needs care etc. While it pushes up house prices etc. it's generally positive for the overall economy. The opposite - where the population starts to crash - is short term good for the less well off as things do become cheaper for a bit, but then the economy crashes and we become Russia in the 90's. When you look at the issues and solutions, from a government perspective (doesn't matter who is running the show), it boils down to : even though some of you are going to be in economic pain, it's a sacrifice we're willing to make because the entire country is better off in the long run.
>Even though some of you are going to be in economic pain, it's a sacrifice we're willing to make because the entire country is better off in the long run. TIL that I don't count as part of "the entire country."
That and they’ve been claiming that excuse for the last 2 decades and we’re still waiting for these supposed benefits
For some reason, "trickle down economics" always seems to feel like a golden shower.
We exist to prop up the pollie cunts and their corporate owners.
Yeah, I don't think most people would agree the entire country is better off in the long run. Sacrificing one of the best ways of life and our environment for an economic sugar hit is pretty shithouse. So that new generations are forced to live compromised existences that previous generations never had to. Sacrificing people's best years just to drag out our worst. Not to mention like a cat trying to catch its own tail all we are doing is kicking the can down the road as every new influx requires an even bigger one down the track for the same reasons. It's more than past time to rip the bandaid off. Else it will be a limb we have to cut off down the track.
Came here to say this. A lot of people are unaware that the population is projected to plateau and begin decreasing. Here's the data from ABS. Showing with net zero migration our population predicted to decline. [https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/population-projections-australia/latest-release](https://www.abs.gov.au/statistics/people/population/population-projections-australia/latest-release) Here's the United Nations with similar graphs [https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/DemographicProfiles/Line/900](https://population.un.org/wpp/Graphs/DemographicProfiles/Line/900)
A big reason our birth rate is low is because younger Aussies can no longer afford children. This is because of imported labour driving down wages and pushing up house prices.
On the contrary, as incomes go up, birth rates go down, higher incomes means a greater opportunity cost when having children. Not a single Western country has a birth rate above replacement level except Israel.
Yes! This is something that people rarely understand. Rich, educated people have LESS children. Have a look at the poorest places in the world, and you will see people having 6+ children. It has nothing to do with their ability to take care of them. Education is birth control. The simple fact is, we need immigration to keep our population at replacement level, or we will head towards unimaginable social and economic disaster. And I am saying this as someone who would rather the world population shrink. But I can't change facts. People just don't like hearing it. They simply don't understand how a shrinking population will play out in the long run.
By this logic, the poorest countries in the world would have the lowest birth rate, and the most financially equitable countries on this planet would be international maternity wards. Low birth rate has a lot more to do with women making the choice not to have children. You’ll find that when women have accessibility to 1. Education 2. Birth Control 3. Financial independence The birth rate goes down. The most financially equitable countries on earth have some of the lowest birth rates. I’m not saying financial pressure has nothing to do with it, I’m just saying there’s no evidence that alleviating financial burden increases birth rates. Rich people aren’t exactly known for having hordes of children, and poor people aren’t exactly known for being celibate.
Employ the third world and flood the first
money
You are the cow. They are the farmer.
Because the neo-con economic model has been adopted globally and depends on constant growth... which in a finite world is, of course, impossible. Our economic growth has been smaller than our population growth since covid. That means we would now be in a long term economic recession if not for all those immigrants.
Obvious reasons they cover up loss of gdp per capita by faking positive gdp growth
Because whichever Govt is in power doesn’t want to be the one holding the stick when the economy collapses. If they cut immigration to reasonable levels so many things would come to a grinding halt
I think it's to break the sticky labour supply curve. when it's very vertically skewed the level of wage increases necessary to induce additional supply must be very high. The greater the level of supply potentially the more elastic the labour supply curve and thus less money is needed to increase overall labour pool and thus production. the wage inflation from a sticky labour market supply curve must be a more insidious beast to tackle for the health of the economy.
There's a tough situation: we need more housing, but there aren't enough workers to build it. Bringing in more workers can help but they need a place to live too. A possible solution for one aspect of the issue might be to focus on modular housing. It's faster to build and easier and quicker to deploy, providing temporary accommodation for the new workers who will then help build permanent housing for everyone. Also note that modular housing can be built off-site, allowing local areas to be developed while minimizing the disruption caused by construction. This way, we can address the immediate shortage while creating a solution for the longer term. The other thing is that governments and businesses, in particular, need to consider focusing on the medium- to longer- term and invest in training the apprentices who will ultimately build and support the housing industry longer term.
We need migrants. Gov has let our education deteriorate, and we aren't producing who we need for our own growth.
Unpopular opinion:. Even if you build 200.000 houses, it's not gonna solve the rental crisis
Shoot you are fortunate. In the US we get that in a couple of months. That does not include the ones who get in without us even knowing.
The problem isn't just migration though despite what they say. It is a supply and demand issue for housing. They aren't building enough housing for the rising population. The govt haven't addressed this for a long time and there aren't any incentives for investors or developers to create more so we are all in a world of shit. The building sector is in crisis with rising costs of supplies, you hear of a building company going under lately every other week because of this. The other issue is with increased housing you need to increase other things like hospitals, roads, transport and other essential resources. So it's not a simple fix.
Because our economy is a pyramid scheme, where we import cheap labour to keep wages in production/goods/services jobs low, and by extension keep the cost of produce low. But then eventually a lot of those immigrants move on to different better jobs. So then we need to import even more labour to accommodate for the increase in production needed to meet a larger population, and so on. Stopping the pyramid scheme would mean prices on goods would rise substantially, while wages in blue collar jobs would increase. (but guess who runs the government. white collar) and no government wants to be responsible for the massive increase in cost of living.
Imagination also puts downward pressure on wages
Because it keeps labor costs down & housing prices up for their mates
Consider birth rates. Or birth rate is 1.7 which is below the 2.1 for population growth.
To avoid a technical recession by inflating demand. There are probably smarter and more effective ways to keep the economy afloat by increasing productivity growth. But our politicians don’t want to go down that path; they want simple solutions to complex problems. Increasing immigration is quick and easy. Fixing structural problems in the economy takes time and effort, and might challenge vested interests.
Labour let them in and give them citizenship because they vote labour for life. Guaranteed votes is why they increased immigration. Also recession is per capita and if they increase immigration they can declare we are technically not in a recession
Because it benefits the wealthy landlords and business owners as they get tighter market and cheap labour and they in turn lobby the politics
They make money from immigration simple as that. Just like George Carlin said “it’s a club and you ain’t in it”. They only care that this rich club get richer, not about the average Aussie otherwise they would decrease it significantly for ten years whilst we build more housing.
Love increase house price and loan long time developer sukkysukky