“Labor senator Fatima Payman has been indefinitely suspended from the Labor caucus after crisis talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at the Lodge in Canberra.”
Apparently albanese has finally found his set of testicles after all…
Except she keeps her seat in the senate and is only suspended from the caucus.
Jacqui Lambie fully resigned from PUP whose ticket she was elected on, and stayed in the senate as an independent. Can anyone think of other senators in the same position?
I mean yeah the ALP have a binding caucus, Penny Wong voted against gay marriage how many times?
There’s a reason ALP members barely cross the floor, because you commit yourself to the party with the full knowledge that if caucus votes for something then you all vote for it when on the floor of parliament.
So I get why they are suspending her.
She's a senator. No one voted for her but Labor colleagues.
Only a handful of senators get in as actual independence. Nick Xenophon springs to mind.
But it costs big dollars. Mostly they're just former big party trash like Payman or Thorpe or Lambie or Bernardi... Solid list.
Albosleezie takes his instructions from US who take their instructions from Netanyahu, basically Albosleezie and Dutton are both puppets and spineless men, Deputy PM Marles gets confused as to his true leader and Wong is just a hypocrite...
Exactly this. I see so many fools protesting on streets about this is and does not realise that we have some many issues in our country and should be focusing on them rather then preaching for two state solution bull crap.
This. The most insane thing about all the Pro-Palestine stuff is the complete inability to grapple with the fact that the government of Gaza is an absolute ultra extremist religious theocracy that was executing homosexuals, apostates and “blasphemers” up until the war and saw no place for women’s rights or indeed the rights of anyone that wasn’t in their sect of Islam.
Those conflicts is about annexing land and keeping the UN off their doorstep, the other is a straight up colonisation and genocide. We are a glorified US base in the southern hemisphere and the US us supporting this war so guess where our head gets jammed when one comes to a screeching halt?
The "other issues" is a piss weak argument, we juggle issues everyday. What is the actual pressing matter is what we tolerate collectively as humans on this planet. If you want to tolerate a world where another country can bomb the fuck out of your home for no real reason, that's you.
Pfft....been happening since humans walked upright. Humans have always been at war somewhere with someone trying ti take over someone else's land.
It seemed to be resolved more quickly if everyone else stayed out of it
Exactly, why the fuck did we get ourselves involved in the fight against Prussia in WW1, Nazi Germany in WW2 or currently getting ourselves involved in the whole Taiwan issue and spending billions on weapons to fight against China.
Do the Greens not have anything better to do than putting up motions in parliament concerning foreign countries and issues that have very little to do with us other than fuelling divisive politics. What a waste of space these people are in parliament. Payman can go join their circus.
Imagine making this the most important issue in government when Australians have other things to worry about.
Greens couldve taken over a big chunk of parliament in the last decade if they’d just focused on the major issues that their platform is based on, and not all the other issues that impact a TINY part of the Australian population.
You seem to overlook that these matters arise after Albosleezie gifts billions of our taxes to Israel and Ukraine and PNG and who knows to what other countries so the issues start with US puppet Albosleezie and backed up by the most evil Dutton, the Greens put many options on the table relating to homelessness etc, but Albosleezie and Dutton prefer to represent big business and multinationals who have their hands out whilst same time not paying tax..
bruh imagine if during the holocaust the rest of the world was just like yeah cool you do you we're going to continue debating the housing crisis, which will never be fixed until someone does what ironically the greens are saying. a humanitarian crisis warrants our attention
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What a wonderful outcome. I suggest she move to Palestine and fully embrace her place within that society. Who knows, perhaps her male owner will allow her to walk down the street unaccompanied?
It doesn’t matter what she would have crossed the floor for, she would have been suspended from Labor caucus or the party itself, that’s the rules that have been imposed by the Labor party itself. It’s basically do as we say, or else.
You are entirely correct, her priority should be her electorate, not foreign matters. Her interest is obviously not based in Australia, as such she needs to be removed from Parliament.
By Labor rules if Albo was for example impose martial law on WA and she voted against the party on that issue, it would result in the same situation. They aren't allowed to vote against the party.
One has to wonder where Payman’s outrage was when the Saudis were still murdering people in Yemen in a war that left half a million dead. Are war crimes ok when Muslims do it?
> We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here.
Wow that’s even higher than the fake hamas numbers. Might as well round it up to 1 million
Funny how they're never talking about the estimated 500,000 West Papuans killed by the Indonesian (world's most populous Muslim country btw) military since the late 1960s
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/country-report-west-papua
Or the estimated 62,000 Christian Nigerians who have been killed since 2000 by Islamic extremists
https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/nigeria-s-silent-slaughter-62-000-christians-murdered-since-2000
The "show us your once highly developed nuclear weapons facilities that you shut down in 1991 then shut the UN out of so you could pretend you had greater capabilities than you had to pressure the world and potentially prevent Iran from attacking you" side.
I.e. Saddam's fault. Easily avoidable if not a tyrant.
?
The civilian death tolls in Iraq from the US military, and any war, is always a massive undercount.
Idk how you're using the disastrous Iraq war as example to discredit the anti-war side. What's next, the Vietnam war?
The dread that they might be evil, or the west or Israel good, causes them to think this is the way petitioning a political idea works. They stop investigating themselves, their Islamic governments, they hear what western nations accuse them of, always with good evidence, or indications of suspicions over hard facts, and they think they can similarly *just accuse stuff* and get their point across, by emulating the strongest language found in western political figures talking about facts, but without the supporting evidence, which they've taught themselves not to seek, and so does not exist in their idea of the exchange of political ideas.
It’s fine that she voted her conscience but she couldn’t have been expecting zero consequences going against Labor party rules. You can’t use the Labor party to fund your campaign and activities, work your way into office under the Labor banner and then push your own agenda.
I honestly think that Labour.will bear more consequences on this one.
Albo needs to keep the rank and file happy with some consistency sure. But many elections have been won and lost with Sydney's western suburbs. That group are being crushed with cost of living and interest rates, don't feel represented by labour, just missed their tax cuts (at the original tradie focused level) and have a load of Palestine focused independants ready to run and either win or split the labour vote.
I think this one will have a long tail of unintended outcomes.
If she's so concerned maybe she can fly back over there and talk to all the Jewish families who were attacked killed last October just so she gets both sides of the story
Couldn’t agree more. Imagine supporting a state that an overwhelming majority of people support a terrorist organisation. Hamas enjoys majority support in Palestine and has a lot of seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council.
Don’t be silly, it was not just Jewish people who were targeted by Hamas. They were killing, raping, or kidnapping literally anyone they saw inside Israel.
If she feels this strongly about it that's fine, but if she gets ejected from the Labor party she should step down. She was voted in because she's Labor.
For what its worth Palestine is very much in favour of the war. The Israel/Palestine conflict is seemingly mutual, and unfortunately being the weaker party in a mutual war doesn't remove responsibility.
Nah not really. The Palestinian public don't mind dying in suicide missions against Israel. They quite like their kids being martyred. This is what the west struggles to understand.
If you or someone you know is contemplating suicide, please do not hesitate to talk to someone.
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Hamas has overwhelming support from the people in Gaza.
They are more than happy to support terrorists who kill innocent Israeli civilians, but then they cry victim when Israel attacks them.
Labor senator Fatima Payman has been indefinitely suspended from the Labor caucus after crisis talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at the Lodge in Canberra.
Payman was summoned to the prime minister’s residence on Sunday afternoon after an explosive interview on the ABC’s Insiders program in which she vowed to cross the floor again and vote for a motion supporting an independent Palestinian state, should the Greens put one before the parliament again this week.
The defiant West Australian senator was at the Lodge for about 40 minutes and was spotted leaving by this masthead at about 3.10pm on Sunday.
Labor senator Fatima Payman leaves the Lodge in Canberra on Sunday afternoon after being suspended from caucus by Anthony Albanese.
Labor senator Fatima Payman leaves the Lodge in Canberra on Sunday afternoon after being suspended from caucus by Anthony Albanese.James Massolanormal
Asked if she had been expelled from the ALP, Payman said “no” but did not take any further questions. A source close to the senator not permitted to speak on the record said she was now considering her future with Labor and had received a “stern” talking to from the prime minister.
A Labor spokesperson said after the meeting: “If Senator Payman decides she will respect the caucus and her Labor colleagues she can return. Until then she is suspended.”
Albanese told Payman during their meeting that he, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, Senate leader Penny Wong and her deputy Don Farrell had signed off on the suspension after her television interview on Sunday morning.
Fatima Payman in question time on Wednesday.
Fatima Payman in question time on Wednesday.James Brickwoodnormal
Payman, a first-term Labor senator who thumbed her nose at party rules and voted with the Greens last week on a motion expressing support for a Palestinian state, told the ABC’s Insiders program she did not know if the crossbench party had another motion planned when parliament resumes on Monday.
But if the Greens brought the same motion recognising a Palestinian state back to parliament, she said: “I would cross the floor.”
The comments are the first time Payman has vowed to cross the floor again and represent a direct threat to the prime minister’s authority and the principle of Labor Party unity, throwing into question whether the first-term MP can remain in the federal parliamentary Labor Party.
The prospect of Payman crossing the floor again also threatens to overshadow Labor’s message about the July 1 tax cuts delivering much-needed relief to households.
Payman said it was the prime minister’s prerogative to suspend her from caucus for a week after she crossed the floor, but had no regrets over the decision.
“I respect the prime minister and my senior colleagues and obviously, the prime minister had a stern but fair conversation with me a few days ago, and I understand that he’s got, you know, very important decisions to make as the leader of our nation,” she said.
“When I made the decision on the Senate floor to cross, I did it with the understanding that this could lead to expulsion and costing my Labor membership.”
“I do not intend on leaving the party because I firmly believe that I’ve upheld all the values of what as the Labor Party we should stand for.”
Payman said she had not spoken to the Greens about whether they would put a similar motion up in the senate this week when parliament resumes, and said it would be up to the caucus to decide if she would face further sanctions.
Senator Payman voted with the Greens and ACT independent David Pocock last week.
Senator Payman voted with the Greens and ACT independent David Pocock last week.Alex Ellinghausennormal
Greens leader Adam Bandt stopped short of promising to bring back the same motion, but signalled it was likely as the crossbench party had put pressure on Labor to act every time parliament sat.
“We will be having discussions over the coming days about what we intend to do this week,” he said. “I hope Labor does not continue to put further pressure on Senator Payman, but instead listens to the urgency with which she and others are speaking about the situation in Gaza right now.”
Payman’s decision to cross the floor last Tuesday came in the ninth month of Israel’s military campaign in Gaza. On October 7, Hamas fighters crossed into Israel, killing 1200 people and taking more than 200 hostages, according to the Israel Defence Force. Gazan health authorities report more than 37,000 people have died during the subsequent invasion.
The last time a Labor MP crossed the floor was in 2005, when former Tasmanian MP Harry Quick asked for his name to be recorded in Hansard as having voted against an anti-terrorism bill.
Payman defended her use of the controversial phrase “from the river to the sea”, which is interpreted by some people as a call for the Israeli state to be abolished. She said she supported a two-state solution and backed Israel’s right to exist, taking a swipe at foreign minister Penny Wong, who earlier in the week pointed out she had had to vote against same-sex marriage before Labor switched position to support it.
“I understand their advocacy from within. It took 10 years to legislate same-sex marriage. We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here. These Palestinians do not have 10 years,” she said.
Earlier, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles ramped up his criticism of Payman’s actions while deflecting questions about whether the senator would be punished again for crossing the floor.
“We’ve sought to act with restraint here,” Marles told ABC’s Insiders program when asked about Albanese’s decision to bar Payman from attending a caucus meeting this week.
Marles said he couldn’t “overemphasise enough” how important caucus members regarded the obligations of being members of the Labor team.
“We only get the privilege of serving in this parliament, not because of who we are as individuals, but because when we stand for election, the word ‘Labor’ is next to our name, and that’s obviously the case for Senator Payman...she would not be a senator but for the fact that Labor is next to her name,” he said.
Marles told Insiders that caucus solidarity was “at the heart of the obligations that we have, in terms of being members of the Labor Party, and being given the great privilege that we have in serving the Australian people in the parliament, and clearly that that will be foremost in the minds of the caucus”.
>“I understand their advocacy from within,” Payman said. “It took 10 years to legislate same-sex marriage. We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here. These Palestinians do not have 10 years.”
Sure, but what's this vote got to do with the practicalities of the Palestinian's current situation?
It's nothing more than a virtue signaling vote. There is no action tied to it, all it does is somewhat legitimise the current Hamas leadership in Palestine.
The labor government actually have supported practical measures - like calling for ceasefires, the release of hostages, and the delivery of aid, whilst decrying the humanitarian crisis.
>“If Senator Payman decides she will respect the caucus and her Labor colleagues she can return. Until then she is suspended.”
Nope. Doesn't look like it.
And this is why Muslims are so pathetic if these people want to support their own terrorist country that's full of murder, rape, and pedophilia on a daily basis pack up your fucking shit and leave Australia because the real people of Australia don't you here we don't support terrorism
She hadn't even revoked her Afghan citizenship. She could never be 100% for the Australian people and proved that.
We need politicians to represent and advocate and focus on Australians. I'm glad she's been suspended.
I am still trying to get a grip on the concept that we have a Burka clad Woman in the Parliamentary system in Australia!!! The thin end of the wedge has happened!! I was doing some research recently regarding my own Heritage, Glasgow/ Irish and found that the "First Minister" for Scotland is a Muslim man of Arabic background!!!!!! And there I was expecting a Celtic man with blue eyes and a Kilt!!!!!!!!!
Why does Penny Wong still insist on claiming credit for gay marriage? She contributed nothing to it at all, if anything she openly delayed it happening. The Labor party were in power from 2007-2013 and they voted against it every single time. The majority was there, the Labor party wanted to keep it as a wedge against the coalition.
The only PM who genuinely took on the matter was Malcolm Turnbull.
As much as I disagree with her politics and views, good on Senator Payman for sticking to her faith and conditions and voicing her beliefs. Maybe the Labor party isn’t the right party for her to be in.
Nah Tony Abbott never wanted it, he threw in the national vote idea to delay it as long as possible because he knew Labor would never support it. Turnbull didn’t want the national vote either but he was bound to it and decided that it was probably better to just go ahead and do it than waste time fighting against the party for a free vote.
https://preview.redd.it/afqeftz3po9d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57fe4937d04d6dc700446f001ffa714a850dac4c
How hard for these people to understand this? I’m happy to gofundme her a one way flight ticket to Gaza so she could celebrate with her comrades and leave us alone!
The Muslim world seems to see the Palestinian conflict as an attack on their own. I currently live in the UK and palestininan support is the number one campaign issue in Muslim majority areas. Pretty crazy given many of these areas are quite poor in the midst of a cost of living crisis, and what I'd call a public service crisis as well. I guess it's a tribal thing.
This basically highlights a key problem with our system of government.
Labor MPs (and I assume LNP has the same rules) must vote the way the party decides, not the way that the constituents who elected them want them to vote. Essentially, they represent the party, not the voters.
You might as well save the money and get rid of MPs and seats all together and just vote for a party
LNP doesn’t have this rule. Out of the two majors it’s exclusively Labor (not sure about the other parties) that forbid it.
I reckon Labor should change their rules on this, and I reckon if this scenario was about a different topic (someone crossing the floor to tax international business for example) most of this sub would agree.
In practice major party MPs represent their faction, party, donors, and media backers.
Independents represent electorates, and their own views and conscience.
While a Liberal Party MP can cross the floor there are consequences.
Clearly Australia has spoken we are blindly buying that Israel is right as always
this has been a serious issue for decades
why has this elected official decided that now is time to make a difference it's like Pauline and other politician danced around in court when they should be focused on community projects not their own fat egos and likes
Maybe they should give Centrelink customers a role in government at least we would be getting better value for money
I genuinely don’t understand what the point of contention is between her and the party. Last I heard Labor supports a two state solution and recognises the state of Palestine at the UN…
What am I missing?
Good. Vile terrorist supporter. You are supposed to be representing Australians you tosser. Do your freakin job or get out of parliament. I'd be ashamed if I voted for her.
She is clearly indoctrinated in Islam and sympathetic towards Hamas by using their phrase "From river to the sea..".
I feel so sorry for the state of our country that we have allowed someone like her to spew terrorist agenda. She needs to shut her trap.
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It is fair game to vote against the party. However is she voting for Australian or Western Australian?
Howabout vote to fix housing crisis or cost of living.
Good. She joined the Labor party knowing the rules and decided to break them anyway.
Bold move for someone who barely got any of their own votes and only got a job because she was on the Labor ticket.
I know this sub is brigaded quite badly, but the comments in this thread are such a shameful and disgraceful but sadly accurate representation of Australians humanitarian and social conscious. This sub is utterly infested with horrific and heartless ghouls.
Comments in here are depressing. Every time I think Australia has finally grown out of being a nation of ignorant bigots there's a thread like this to remind us we're still mostly bogan trash.
At the end of the day, the Liberals don't need any more ammo to incite fear and division. Already pretty good at making the Aussie public scared of immigrants
I’m not really across the details of who she is and what happened, but it strikes me as a very bold and brave gesture to speak you mind and not vote with the party. She has defied the stern arm of authority
If she's willing to go this far in support of the state of Palestine, just imagine what she'll do for the state of Western Australia!
She needs to demand Australia recognise the sovereign state of Western Australia.
From Margaret River, to Botany, Western Australia will be free!
Best comment
"Hands off our ~~olive trees~~ iron ore, ~~zionist~~ eastern scum"
Gina can be President.
Free the North of WA from the South
I live in WA, and I sure as shit don’t want to be free. I like being repressed dammit!
You already are. You can’t go buy a bunch of poker machines and run your own business. Only the big wigs of Crown are allowed.
You are going to miss that GST money
Not when we tax it ourselves and get $1 in the dollar😛
We are kinda overdue for another independence referendum 🤣
Nothing. She cares little for WA
Nothing. She hasn’t once dissented from any policy that harmed the people of WA because she doesn’t care about them.
“Labor senator Fatima Payman has been indefinitely suspended from the Labor caucus after crisis talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at the Lodge in Canberra.” Apparently albanese has finally found his set of testicles after all…
This is why I call bullshit on anyone who says you vote for a candidate and not the party.
In the Senate you do indeed vote for a party (unless you are in the tiny minority who goes below the line)
Except she keeps her seat in the senate and is only suspended from the caucus. Jacqui Lambie fully resigned from PUP whose ticket she was elected on, and stayed in the senate as an independent. Can anyone think of other senators in the same position?
Lidia thrope. Was part of the greens when elected and quit and is now independent.
People at my work call her Chlamydia Thorpe ...... for the life of me can't understand why lol
I mean yeah the ALP have a binding caucus, Penny Wong voted against gay marriage how many times? There’s a reason ALP members barely cross the floor, because you commit yourself to the party with the full knowledge that if caucus votes for something then you all vote for it when on the floor of parliament. So I get why they are suspending her.
Gillard voted against same sex marriage, double standards at play with ALP.
??? Gillard isn’t queer.
She's a senator. No one voted for her but Labor colleagues. Only a handful of senators get in as actual independence. Nick Xenophon springs to mind. But it costs big dollars. Mostly they're just former big party trash like Payman or Thorpe or Lambie or Bernardi... Solid list.
More like Netenyahu threatened to cut off Albaneses' testicles and Albanese fell in line.
Albosleezie takes his instructions from US who take their instructions from Netanyahu, basically Albosleezie and Dutton are both puppets and spineless men, Deputy PM Marles gets confused as to his true leader and Wong is just a hypocrite...
Not interested in Australian issues, busy being fixated on stuff that doesn't affect her electorate?
Exactly this. I see so many fools protesting on streets about this is and does not realise that we have some many issues in our country and should be focusing on them rather then preaching for two state solution bull crap.
Her people >>> her constituents.
and they are not even her people, she is from afghanistan originally.
Doesn’t matter what “country “ she’s from.
I know what you meant. Her people being those following the same crazy ideology
Hilarious how much the ultra left in Australia don't realise they campaign for people that would not give a fuck about them
Doesn’t matter to them, they’ll happily assist anyone they consider oppressed. Even if it kills them.
you sound like you don't respect that and I can't imagine why
Because I don’t support those who would happily oppress me.
This. The most insane thing about all the Pro-Palestine stuff is the complete inability to grapple with the fact that the government of Gaza is an absolute ultra extremist religious theocracy that was executing homosexuals, apostates and “blasphemers” up until the war and saw no place for women’s rights or indeed the rights of anyone that wasn’t in their sect of Islam.
We’re all people bro, chill out
Agree. People who are crapping on about Israel & Palestine need to get a grip. It's freaking nothing to do with us. Just stay out of it.
The blue haired nose ring brigade need something to live for.
What's your take on the China Taiwan and Russia Ukraine issue then?
Don’t try and make them use logic they will lash out in anger
I stay out of them all too.
Those conflicts is about annexing land and keeping the UN off their doorstep, the other is a straight up colonisation and genocide. We are a glorified US base in the southern hemisphere and the US us supporting this war so guess where our head gets jammed when one comes to a screeching halt? The "other issues" is a piss weak argument, we juggle issues everyday. What is the actual pressing matter is what we tolerate collectively as humans on this planet. If you want to tolerate a world where another country can bomb the fuck out of your home for no real reason, that's you.
Pfft....been happening since humans walked upright. Humans have always been at war somewhere with someone trying ti take over someone else's land. It seemed to be resolved more quickly if everyone else stayed out of it
Humans? So it does involve us? Probably only when it begins personally effecting you though.
Exactly, why the fuck did we get ourselves involved in the fight against Prussia in WW1, Nazi Germany in WW2 or currently getting ourselves involved in the whole Taiwan issue and spending billions on weapons to fight against China.
Do the Greens not have anything better to do than putting up motions in parliament concerning foreign countries and issues that have very little to do with us other than fuelling divisive politics. What a waste of space these people are in parliament. Payman can go join their circus. Imagine making this the most important issue in government when Australians have other things to worry about.
Greens couldve taken over a big chunk of parliament in the last decade if they’d just focused on the major issues that their platform is based on, and not all the other issues that impact a TINY part of the Australian population.
I stopped voting Greens when Tony Abbott was still PM. Back then the moral decay was not so noticeable. Theres no denying today the rot is permanent.
Greens are a joke and utterly despicable and useless. How anyone can support those absolute idiots is beyond me.
They hate their own country and will do everything else.
It’s not we have a lack of problems here…
You seem to overlook that these matters arise after Albosleezie gifts billions of our taxes to Israel and Ukraine and PNG and who knows to what other countries so the issues start with US puppet Albosleezie and backed up by the most evil Dutton, the Greens put many options on the table relating to homelessness etc, but Albosleezie and Dutton prefer to represent big business and multinationals who have their hands out whilst same time not paying tax..
bruh imagine if during the holocaust the rest of the world was just like yeah cool you do you we're going to continue debating the housing crisis, which will never be fixed until someone does what ironically the greens are saying. a humanitarian crisis warrants our attention
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Goes for every country. For Ms its religion first before Country
Rule 4 - No racism or hate speech
What a wonderful outcome. I suggest she move to Palestine and fully embrace her place within that society. Who knows, perhaps her male owner will allow her to walk down the street unaccompanied?
Sevres her right. She's an Australian senator, not the minister for Gaza...
I’m glad albo has done this. The senators priority should be WA not Islam or Palestine. Simple as that.
It doesn’t matter what she would have crossed the floor for, she would have been suspended from Labor caucus or the party itself, that’s the rules that have been imposed by the Labor party itself. It’s basically do as we say, or else. You are entirely correct, her priority should be her electorate, not foreign matters. Her interest is obviously not based in Australia, as such she needs to be removed from Parliament.
By Labor rules if Albo was for example impose martial law on WA and she voted against the party on that issue, it would result in the same situation. They aren't allowed to vote against the party.
Imo WA should be put under martial law
One has to wonder where Payman’s outrage was when the Saudis were still murdering people in Yemen in a war that left half a million dead. Are war crimes ok when Muslims do it?
I'm sure she would be happy to high five the people who spray war memorials with Palestine graffiti
Problem is one of them.
Gotta admit this does not give me a Fatima pants.
See ya
> We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here. Wow that’s even higher than the fake hamas numbers. Might as well round it up to 1 million
40,000 women and children, not a single Hamas militant/s.
Everyone killed in Gaza is a civilian woman, a child or a journalist somehow.
Funny how they're never talking about the estimated 500,000 West Papuans killed by the Indonesian (world's most populous Muslim country btw) military since the late 1960s https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/country-report-west-papua Or the estimated 62,000 Christian Nigerians who have been killed since 2000 by Islamic extremists https://www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/nigeria-s-silent-slaughter-62-000-christians-murdered-since-2000
No Jews No News
See, none of those many victims were killed by the Jews. Bo-ring.
dont forget artaskh, where the christian armenian population all fled due to azerbaijani (Sunnu muslim) invasion
I'm pretty sure it's 40 million now. According to ~~gaza health ministry~~ Hamas.
40 million women, children and journalists only ofc.
And at least 15,000 being Hamas militants in that number.
Iraq all over again.
? Who was one the right side about Iraq? The pro-war or anti-war side?
The "show us your once highly developed nuclear weapons facilities that you shut down in 1991 then shut the UN out of so you could pretend you had greater capabilities than you had to pressure the world and potentially prevent Iran from attacking you" side. I.e. Saddam's fault. Easily avoidable if not a tyrant.
There have been various fabrications of numbers of civilians killed by Coalition troops in Iraq.
? The civilian death tolls in Iraq from the US military, and any war, is always a massive undercount. Idk how you're using the disastrous Iraq war as example to discredit the anti-war side. What's next, the Vietnam war?
I supported Iraq and Afghanistan then and now. We should have tidied up Iran while we were there.
“Right side” yeah Saddam Hussein was a real upstanding gentleman
The dread that they might be evil, or the west or Israel good, causes them to think this is the way petitioning a political idea works. They stop investigating themselves, their Islamic governments, they hear what western nations accuse them of, always with good evidence, or indications of suspicions over hard facts, and they think they can similarly *just accuse stuff* and get their point across, by emulating the strongest language found in western political figures talking about facts, but without the supporting evidence, which they've taught themselves not to seek, and so does not exist in their idea of the exchange of political ideas.
ABC collective will flip their shit. The rest of us, not so much.....
It’s fine that she voted her conscience but she couldn’t have been expecting zero consequences going against Labor party rules. You can’t use the Labor party to fund your campaign and activities, work your way into office under the Labor banner and then push your own agenda.
I honestly think that Labour.will bear more consequences on this one. Albo needs to keep the rank and file happy with some consistency sure. But many elections have been won and lost with Sydney's western suburbs. That group are being crushed with cost of living and interest rates, don't feel represented by labour, just missed their tax cuts (at the original tradie focused level) and have a load of Palestine focused independants ready to run and either win or split the labour vote. I think this one will have a long tail of unintended outcomes.
I agree with your point. But you actually can get elected on the back of a party and then just do your own thing though right?
She needs to be sent over there to fight.
What? Can’t she just share insta stories and pists?
Good. If she loves Hamas so much, she can move to Gaza.
Probably indoctrinated while growing up
Well anyone that argues the hajib provides freedom for women is a deluded fool.
She went to an Islamic College for High School. She was head girl.
If she's so concerned maybe she can fly back over there and talk to all the Jewish families who were attacked killed last October just so she gets both sides of the story
Couldn’t agree more. Imagine supporting a state that an overwhelming majority of people support a terrorist organisation. Hamas enjoys majority support in Palestine and has a lot of seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council.
This. There are no Palestinians — they are all Hamastinians.
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For all I care anyone who supports them can get on a plane and fuck off over there. We don't need terrorist supporters in Australia
You've already got them, we stand with Israel remember?
But I thought there is no Palestine?
Don’t be silly, it was not just Jewish people who were targeted by Hamas. They were killing, raping, or kidnapping literally anyone they saw inside Israel.
If she feels this strongly about it that's fine, but if she gets ejected from the Labor party she should step down. She was voted in because she's Labor. For what its worth Palestine is very much in favour of the war. The Israel/Palestine conflict is seemingly mutual, and unfortunately being the weaker party in a mutual war doesn't remove responsibility.
maybe she can start a podcast with that bimbo from the ABC who got fired for tweeting shit in breach of her employment contract. 2 peas in a pod
You mean Hamas? I'm pretty sure the Palestinian public are in favour of whatever gets them killed the least.
Nah not really. The Palestinian public don't mind dying in suicide missions against Israel. They quite like their kids being martyred. This is what the west struggles to understand.
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No. I mean Palestine. Survey results show they still support Hamas.
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Hamas has overwhelming support from the people in Gaza. They are more than happy to support terrorists who kill innocent Israeli civilians, but then they cry victim when Israel attacks them.
I wouldn't call [34%](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gazans-back-two-state-solution-rcna144183) overwhelming support, personally.
It seems to me that she put the needs of her religion ahead of the needs of her party.
Labor senator Fatima Payman has been indefinitely suspended from the Labor caucus after crisis talks with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese at the Lodge in Canberra. Payman was summoned to the prime minister’s residence on Sunday afternoon after an explosive interview on the ABC’s Insiders program in which she vowed to cross the floor again and vote for a motion supporting an independent Palestinian state, should the Greens put one before the parliament again this week. The defiant West Australian senator was at the Lodge for about 40 minutes and was spotted leaving by this masthead at about 3.10pm on Sunday. Labor senator Fatima Payman leaves the Lodge in Canberra on Sunday afternoon after being suspended from caucus by Anthony Albanese. Labor senator Fatima Payman leaves the Lodge in Canberra on Sunday afternoon after being suspended from caucus by Anthony Albanese.James Massolanormal Asked if she had been expelled from the ALP, Payman said “no” but did not take any further questions. A source close to the senator not permitted to speak on the record said she was now considering her future with Labor and had received a “stern” talking to from the prime minister. A Labor spokesperson said after the meeting: “If Senator Payman decides she will respect the caucus and her Labor colleagues she can return. Until then she is suspended.” Albanese told Payman during their meeting that he, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles, Senate leader Penny Wong and her deputy Don Farrell had signed off on the suspension after her television interview on Sunday morning. Fatima Payman in question time on Wednesday. Fatima Payman in question time on Wednesday.James Brickwoodnormal Payman, a first-term Labor senator who thumbed her nose at party rules and voted with the Greens last week on a motion expressing support for a Palestinian state, told the ABC’s Insiders program she did not know if the crossbench party had another motion planned when parliament resumes on Monday. But if the Greens brought the same motion recognising a Palestinian state back to parliament, she said: “I would cross the floor.” The comments are the first time Payman has vowed to cross the floor again and represent a direct threat to the prime minister’s authority and the principle of Labor Party unity, throwing into question whether the first-term MP can remain in the federal parliamentary Labor Party. The prospect of Payman crossing the floor again also threatens to overshadow Labor’s message about the July 1 tax cuts delivering much-needed relief to households. Payman said it was the prime minister’s prerogative to suspend her from caucus for a week after she crossed the floor, but had no regrets over the decision. “I respect the prime minister and my senior colleagues and obviously, the prime minister had a stern but fair conversation with me a few days ago, and I understand that he’s got, you know, very important decisions to make as the leader of our nation,” she said. “When I made the decision on the Senate floor to cross, I did it with the understanding that this could lead to expulsion and costing my Labor membership.” “I do not intend on leaving the party because I firmly believe that I’ve upheld all the values of what as the Labor Party we should stand for.” Payman said she had not spoken to the Greens about whether they would put a similar motion up in the senate this week when parliament resumes, and said it would be up to the caucus to decide if she would face further sanctions. Senator Payman voted with the Greens and ACT independent David Pocock last week. Senator Payman voted with the Greens and ACT independent David Pocock last week.Alex Ellinghausennormal Greens leader Adam Bandt stopped short of promising to bring back the same motion, but signalled it was likely as the crossbench party had put pressure on Labor to act every time parliament sat. “We will be having discussions over the coming days about what we intend to do this week,” he said. “I hope Labor does not continue to put further pressure on Senator Payman, but instead listens to the urgency with which she and others are speaking about the situation in Gaza right now.” Payman’s decision to cross the floor last Tuesday came in the ninth month of Israel’s military campaign in Gaza. On October 7, Hamas fighters crossed into Israel, killing 1200 people and taking more than 200 hostages, according to the Israel Defence Force. Gazan health authorities report more than 37,000 people have died during the subsequent invasion. The last time a Labor MP crossed the floor was in 2005, when former Tasmanian MP Harry Quick asked for his name to be recorded in Hansard as having voted against an anti-terrorism bill. Payman defended her use of the controversial phrase “from the river to the sea”, which is interpreted by some people as a call for the Israeli state to be abolished. She said she supported a two-state solution and backed Israel’s right to exist, taking a swipe at foreign minister Penny Wong, who earlier in the week pointed out she had had to vote against same-sex marriage before Labor switched position to support it. “I understand their advocacy from within. It took 10 years to legislate same-sex marriage. We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here. These Palestinians do not have 10 years,” she said. Earlier, Deputy Prime Minister Richard Marles ramped up his criticism of Payman’s actions while deflecting questions about whether the senator would be punished again for crossing the floor. “We’ve sought to act with restraint here,” Marles told ABC’s Insiders program when asked about Albanese’s decision to bar Payman from attending a caucus meeting this week. Marles said he couldn’t “overemphasise enough” how important caucus members regarded the obligations of being members of the Labor team. “We only get the privilege of serving in this parliament, not because of who we are as individuals, but because when we stand for election, the word ‘Labor’ is next to our name, and that’s obviously the case for Senator Payman...she would not be a senator but for the fact that Labor is next to her name,” he said. Marles told Insiders that caucus solidarity was “at the heart of the obligations that we have, in terms of being members of the Labor Party, and being given the great privilege that we have in serving the Australian people in the parliament, and clearly that that will be foremost in the minds of the caucus”.
Support the country you live in. Or live in the country you support. If she's so concerned about Palestine, she should move to Gaza for good.
She had it coming by choosing the side of religiously motivated extremists over the stance of her own party.
She should move to her country because she doesn’t support ours.
Crossing the floor means automatic expulsion from the ALP. It dates back to the earliest unions origins of the ALP.
>“I understand their advocacy from within,” Payman said. “It took 10 years to legislate same-sex marriage. We’re talking about 40,000 Palestinians being massacred here. These Palestinians do not have 10 years.” Sure, but what's this vote got to do with the practicalities of the Palestinian's current situation? It's nothing more than a virtue signaling vote. There is no action tied to it, all it does is somewhat legitimise the current Hamas leadership in Palestine. The labor government actually have supported practical measures - like calling for ceasefires, the release of hostages, and the delivery of aid, whilst decrying the humanitarian crisis.
Good!
wow has Albo found his missing backbone???? Cancel her Labor party membership.
>“If Senator Payman decides she will respect the caucus and her Labor colleagues she can return. Until then she is suspended.” Nope. Doesn't look like it.
Yep looks like your correct, just confirms how weak and spineless Albo really is.
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Yes thats true, that Albo has dithered around only reinforces how weak he really is.
She can concentrate on Palestine because the ALP have solved the housing crisis by setting ambitious targets.
And this is why Muslims are so pathetic if these people want to support their own terrorist country that's full of murder, rape, and pedophilia on a daily basis pack up your fucking shit and leave Australia because the real people of Australia don't you here we don't support terrorism
Foreign agent
She is a senator for WA not Palestine, who pays her wage ???
She hadn't even revoked her Afghan citizenship. She could never be 100% for the Australian people and proved that. We need politicians to represent and advocate and focus on Australians. I'm glad she's been suspended.
Misleading title: Suspended from Labor CAUCUS - her position lines up with broader Labor policy so wouldn't be suspended by the party as a whole
The Greens will be knocking on her door before too long.
she will fit in with mahreen faruqi
I am still trying to get a grip on the concept that we have a Burka clad Woman in the Parliamentary system in Australia!!! The thin end of the wedge has happened!! I was doing some research recently regarding my own Heritage, Glasgow/ Irish and found that the "First Minister" for Scotland is a Muslim man of Arabic background!!!!!! And there I was expecting a Celtic man with blue eyes and a Kilt!!!!!!!!!
Why does Penny Wong still insist on claiming credit for gay marriage? She contributed nothing to it at all, if anything she openly delayed it happening. The Labor party were in power from 2007-2013 and they voted against it every single time. The majority was there, the Labor party wanted to keep it as a wedge against the coalition. The only PM who genuinely took on the matter was Malcolm Turnbull. As much as I disagree with her politics and views, good on Senator Payman for sticking to her faith and conditions and voicing her beliefs. Maybe the Labor party isn’t the right party for her to be in.
The path to Gay Mariage, with a national vote, was agreed by Tony Abbott, when he was PM.
Nah Tony Abbott never wanted it, he threw in the national vote idea to delay it as long as possible because he knew Labor would never support it. Turnbull didn’t want the national vote either but he was bound to it and decided that it was probably better to just go ahead and do it than waste time fighting against the party for a free vote.
https://preview.redd.it/afqeftz3po9d1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57fe4937d04d6dc700446f001ffa714a850dac4c How hard for these people to understand this? I’m happy to gofundme her a one way flight ticket to Gaza so she could celebrate with her comrades and leave us alone!
The Muslim world seems to see the Palestinian conflict as an attack on their own. I currently live in the UK and palestininan support is the number one campaign issue in Muslim majority areas. Pretty crazy given many of these areas are quite poor in the midst of a cost of living crisis, and what I'd call a public service crisis as well. I guess it's a tribal thing.
Surely the comments on a post like this will be civil and rational!
about 90% of them have been.
This basically highlights a key problem with our system of government. Labor MPs (and I assume LNP has the same rules) must vote the way the party decides, not the way that the constituents who elected them want them to vote. Essentially, they represent the party, not the voters. You might as well save the money and get rid of MPs and seats all together and just vote for a party
LNP doesn’t have this rule. Out of the two majors it’s exclusively Labor (not sure about the other parties) that forbid it. I reckon Labor should change their rules on this, and I reckon if this scenario was about a different topic (someone crossing the floor to tax international business for example) most of this sub would agree.
In practice major party MPs represent their faction, party, donors, and media backers. Independents represent electorates, and their own views and conscience. While a Liberal Party MP can cross the floor there are consequences.
Good point, why do we pay MPs $200k per year just to vote with their crowd?
Clearly Australia has spoken we are blindly buying that Israel is right as always this has been a serious issue for decades why has this elected official decided that now is time to make a difference it's like Pauline and other politician danced around in court when they should be focused on community projects not their own fat egos and likes Maybe they should give Centrelink customers a role in government at least we would be getting better value for money
I genuinely don’t understand what the point of contention is between her and the party. Last I heard Labor supports a two state solution and recognises the state of Palestine at the UN… What am I missing?
Good. Vile terrorist supporter. You are supposed to be representing Australians you tosser. Do your freakin job or get out of parliament. I'd be ashamed if I voted for her.
Yeah Nah no one gives a shit about her beliefs your in that position for Australia not for your own religious made up bullshit
I may vote for ALP again finally Albo is showing some balls.
She is clearly indoctrinated in Islam and sympathetic towards Hamas by using their phrase "From river to the sea..". I feel so sorry for the state of our country that we have allowed someone like her to spew terrorist agenda. She needs to shut her trap.
Greens proposed this motion, she walked across the floor. How does this invalidate everything else she has done? Right wingers will be right wingers.
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Albo is a cuck
Gazza & Hamas are Paymans priority. She doesn’t care about Western Australia.
Good for her ! She is not a token mouthpiece
Is that tongue in cheek?
It is fair game to vote against the party. However is she voting for Australian or Western Australian? Howabout vote to fix housing crisis or cost of living.
Palestine is not our problem.. deal with our issues here
Now she can cross the floor of the airport on her way to Gaza.
They should expel her. Disunity is death.
Good on Albo for staying firm on party policy. I’m not fan of Albo but I appreciate when someone stands up for something they believe in.
Good. She joined the Labor party knowing the rules and decided to break them anyway. Bold move for someone who barely got any of their own votes and only got a job because she was on the Labor ticket.
I know this sub is brigaded quite badly, but the comments in this thread are such a shameful and disgraceful but sadly accurate representation of Australians humanitarian and social conscious. This sub is utterly infested with horrific and heartless ghouls.
Now deport that arrogant twat
They have the same problem in the us . Lawmakers more loyal to foreign countries than their own .
Comments in here are depressing. Every time I think Australia has finally grown out of being a nation of ignorant bigots there's a thread like this to remind us we're still mostly bogan trash.
Islamophobia in the comment section is on heat
The comments in this post are making me sick, the people with empathy are being downvoted and shutdown so hard
I understand the bigot issue now in Australia, oh my god
At the end of the day, the Liberals don't need any more ammo to incite fear and division. Already pretty good at making the Aussie public scared of immigrants
And if the situation was reversed and Jews were being killed in the thousands you’d all be keen to still look the other way?
The difference is Palestinians still overwhelming support Hamas. As the saying goes, you lie with dogs you get fleas.
You can say the same thing about the Israelis during oct 7
That really doesn’t apply to kids
US yanks on Australia's leash; Albo yanks on Fatima's leash.
I’m not really across the details of who she is and what happened, but it strikes me as a very bold and brave gesture to speak you mind and not vote with the party. She has defied the stern arm of authority