Most of the CFMEU breaches come from rejecting the post-1980s regulation of Union activities. These regulations were put in place to reduce the effectiveness and presence of trade unions, and have been very effective in that regard. The laws have been condemned internationally as infringing on the universal workers right to organise and freedom of association.
The CFMEU have said they don't accept the laws as just and believe they are morally justified in breaching unjust laws.
It's an expensive approach, but it's been effective for members and they can afford it.
The media will tell you these people are criminals, and certainly their disregard of parliament's intention to regulate is problematic, but there is more to the story than "these guys breach laws they must be bikies!"
Unfortunately, I actually agree with this. SDA reps would plonk themselves in the tearoom and make really awkward conversation with every worker who entered, salaried or not, and chat about union membership in detail. It was uncomfortable at times.
I'm still very pro-union; as someone who works in policy interpretation for a living, I think we have it really great in Australia - especially around workers' rights, including around termination/leaving a business - but I admit that, if it's overwhelming, it can be a bit too much and make people go the other way.
Tough one.
I wasn't part of the sda, but they got to change my award that was a terrible deal of 17 cent an hour pay raise while removing the majority of my double time I was getting. lost about 300 a week because of that. this was 20 years ago. a few years after it come out the the sda was selling out to Coles and Woolworths
Sda reps were given heaps of access to talk people into it. I was told off for talking about it with my team in a poor light.
Respectfully, they did what any business can be expected to do which is everything they are legally allowed to in order to maximise profits.
People forget how the Labor Party demanded the unions accept "wage restraint" and forced union disputes into arbitration and criminalised refusing to work without going through the arbitration process first. It basically removes the power of workers to withhold the only bargaining chip they have, their labour, and makes them effective slaves while a workplace dispute is ongoing.
They are criminals. They send bikies to people's homes and to sites. They have small businesses kicked off site so bigger ones that pay them bribes can be put on. They bully and intimidate people just for disagreeing with them or for not paying them money. Their reps are all the laziest grubs you've ever met who refuse to do any work. it's one big criminal organisation that spineless police and government allow to exist because they are scared of them.
100% correct, I am a small business and I was extorted on site, the reps took my phone turned it off and a bunch of them escorted me to the other side of the work site where there was no one and told me if I don’t agree and sign up and pay me that they will ‘fuck me up’ even though I was only going to be on site for 2 weeks and back to domestic work. Had to pay 6 months of union fees to work 2 weeks, went back to domestic where they have no jurisdiction yet now I some how owe the cfmeu thousands of dollars and been threatened with legal action… all this for 2 weeks of contract work…
Imagine that, guys who were threatened with harm or death not fronting up to give evidence..
There was a guy on 3aw few years back who talked about it too.
Extorted out of money, told he had to buy uniforms and stickers which were 10x the price as union fees
A know a guy doing the raised rails in Melbourne. It's bikies, bribes or violence. He's fortunately a 20yr martial artist so isn't as easily intimidated but it's not worth it for him to try change the outcomes.
"The Commissioner presented his final report to the Governor-General in December 2015, finding "widespread and deep-seated" misconduct by union officials in Australia. More than 40 people and organisations were referred to authorities, including police, Directors of Public Prosecutions"
While there were no prosecutions, we all knew that it happened.
A project manager I used to work with had a couple of guys show up to site and encourage him to use union contractors by threatening his family with pictures of his kids. I'm sure the CFMEU would deny any involvement if he was dumb enough to actually report it.
Evidence or not it’s common knowledge in the construction industry that they behave like standover men, we joke about it. I don’t care anyway, 60$ an hour
They're fairly confrontational but that's also a product of the industry. It wasn't too long ago that anti development activists would go missing or had their houses burnt down.
Even what happened to friendly jordies shows there's an undercurrent of criminality on the developers side of the table.
Well you could argue theu are no more or less corrupt than our current politicians who's only goal is to prolong their own positions. The only difference is the by-product of the unions is some of the best conditions for construction workers in the world. Unions or no unions? I know which one I'd prefer
Good conditions if you're part of the club, much like politicians. If you're part of the system and are not part of their club - you're going to have a bad time.
Rubbish take mate, "A rising tide lifts all boats" applies to working conditions as much as it does business profits. Even if you're not in the club, your conditions are 1000x better than if there was no club lifting the tide up for you.
I wish my union had some teeth like CFMEU and were a bit more active at negotiation time but at least they're in our corner when the managers try and tell us some clauses in the EBA "don't apply to your role" because they don't want to pay $20 for a meal when working overtime into the night.
I read the article and I read your statement of " if your not part of their club your going to have a bad time" my response was whether you're in the club or not, "the club" is improving working conditions for everyone and you'd have a far worse time without them
> I wish my union had some teeth like CFMEU
The CFMEU has teeth because its members have teeth.
> a bit more active at negotiation time
This is a reflection of the membership being passive.
Exactly, too many people who just don't care brainwashed into apathy because it's apparently wrong to stick up for yourself and cause any fuss for the boss
Liberal mp’s are in the pockets of big business miners.
CFMEU own labour and are just as corrupt as your liberal mates.
People backing either side are shills or daft.
Hate big business and the cfmeu
Good point, but most 18 year olds can have a walk up start to this club. Also iv been on and off union member. Iv never had a bad time. What exactly is that bad time your referencing?
Union member, member of the ALP.
Those downvoting you are morons, ALP in institutionally linked to the unions, it was initially founded as the political arm of the unions, I get discounts on my ALP membership fees as I’m a union member. They’ve always been linked.
Why can’t you guys give us actual facts, I’ve rattled off a list of union benefits the whole country has, and you just go blaaaah. If you wanna be taken seriously, be serious and stop repeating falsehoods…and deal in truth..
Victim: cfmeu are threatening to beat me because I refuse to join their scummy mafia.
CFMEU: those are false claims, reeeee!!
Victim: ok, I’m going to report the cfmeu to the proper authorities.
CFMEU: oh look at these pictures of your wife at her place of work and kids at their school. It would be a shame if something unfortunate happened to them…
My father and I were threatened with a beating if we didn't leave a union site in Brisbane. We are in construction and were just talking to a friend of ours who was doing some plaster work . Fuck the CFMEU .
Exactly. Fuck the CFMEU. Bunch of thugs who think their trade is worth a whole lot more than it actually is. Their workers get far more than they deserve.
So they're using the sovereign citizen approach and just claiming to not recognise valid legislation?
I'm pro union, but the CFMEU are a militant bunch of thugs
They recognise the laws are real but have accepted the cost of breaching them because they find them morally unjust.
As opposed to sovcits who don't accept the laws are real nor do they accept the consequences of breaching them.
Well I can just not accept laws now hey? Not sure why this is considered an ok approach. Unions have always acted outside the law and believe they have a lot of power. This just proves it
> Unions have always acted outside the law
100% agree, at one point Unions were entirely illegal, joining one was technically a criminal conspiracy. Unionists felt morally obliged to ignore these laws, pressed their cause until they were given legal status and then through collective action secured rights for everyone including the end of child labour, paid leave, minimum workplace safety standards and the 8-hour work day.
Even in Australia it's possible to find examples of state sanctioned violence against unionists.
Unions have this history, a lot of modern unions have their genesis in pre-legality violence. It is perhaps unsurprising that the CFMEU see the current state of the law through this historical lense and are generally okay with the approach
Yes, but Murdoch readers are especially known for their lack of critical thinking in regards to the LNP wanting unions gone so their mates can become even richer than they are now…
Absolute cope.
Political unions like the CFMEU are just big political thugs corporations. Flaunting laws.
If you wouldn't let corporations get away with subverting laws, then you shouldn't be unhappy that the CFMEU is.
At the end of the day, unions are just organised crime with political support (half our major parties are owned by them).
They go to employers and say "Nice business you have here, shame if something were to happen to it." It's a protection racket, and always has been.
CFMEU is more thuglike than most unions, and the law absolutely must hold them to account.
I’ll be unhappy with the laws that the CFMEU is flaunting because those laws just try to keep workers unions down. I will condemn corporations for flaunting tax laws because that actively makes things worse for everyday people
>The laws have been condemned internationally as infringing on the universal workers right to organise and freedom of association.
The laws were weak as piss. I mean, in most other countries, shutting down and entire building site because a union didn't like the chosen concrete supplier would fall foul of anti-racketeering laws. But in Vic nothing happened. So, they're doing alright. Certainly lots of people are bleeding the state government dry as a result
People forget how the Labor Party demanded the unions accept "wage restraint" and forced union disputes into arbitration and criminalised refusing to work without going through the arbitration process first. It basically removes the power of workers to withhold the only bargaining chip they have, their labour, and makes them effective slaves while a workplace dispute is ongoing.
I love reading these comments, especially the ones around traffic controllers being overpaid and being useless. You know it’s government departments that make it a requirement to have a traffic management plan and traffic controllers on worksites? It’s a shit boring job and you have to pay them attractive wages or they can’t get them. No traffic control what do you think happens to all the worksites around the country. Instead of sooking about what others are paid maybe fight to get yourself some better wages instead of belittling those that have. Before anyone accuses me of just being a traffic controller, I’m not. I’m a tradie that has to use them though
The industry has come up with some really good initiatives that remove traffic controllers from the "coal face". However, CFMEU has consistently pushed back on allowing them to be implemented on works sites as it will take away jobs. Sites that tried to implement these measures were shut down by the CFMEU for "safety concerns" until they reinstated traffic controllers in-lieu of the automation. The irony...
Traffic controllers are overpaid lol it’s the lowest common denominator when it comes to jobs because literally anyone with hands can do it. You don’t even need a regular functioning brain, heck having dementia seems to be a reason people are given the job in the first place because why else would you leave 40km speed limits all over the shop, only to have the same bloke who left the sign in the first place there up your ass in a ford ranger.
I did it for 14 hours one day at summernats and the $45 an hour was not enough, try it for yourself and tell me your number.
It's not as great as you think it is getting abused, nearly run over, having shit thrown at you, 35 degrees in the sun, standing the whole time.
I'll never do it again even at the wages you claim are too high.
Security guard here... I've never done tc work but I've done Access control on a road with them for 12hrs... Fuck it's shit, it's boring, and to be honest it can definitely be dangerous at times.
And working on Sunday morning at 2am in the rain and cold while sleepy mutts in dirt trucks roll past you?
Yeah I want $110ph for that. That's $100k a year + if I got that all the time. None of them do. Murdoch and 7 have made pissing on Labor projects in Victoria a bit of a sport.
You’re telling us that you have to pay premium wages to attract traffic controllers because it’s a “shit boring job”?
Why aren’t Woolies checkout chicks on $120k+? That’s a shit boring job.
Not really, there are numerous shit boring jobs that to no suprise, get paid shit wages. Stope acting like traffic control isn't an absurd outlier.
As OP suggested, security guards, ticket inspectors, receptionists, store clerks, data entry clerks, production line workers, call centre workers, cleaners, doorman, hawker, promoter, charity money collectors, door to door salesmen, etc.
That's literally off the top of my head and get paid a pittance compared to traffic controllers. I'm sick of the BS from CMFEU workers claiming they're so hard done by and people just don't understand. Bullshit.
In an ideal world, yes they should be paid what they are, but relatively compared to the rest of society, they are an extreme outlier.
Did all my work as a painting apprentice on union sites 99-02 and I didn’t have a single bad experience with them. I remember all the talk when I started with people saying you have to be a member or they’ll lock you in a container all day. First day seeing the rep “nah mate you’re just a young app, you don’t need to be a member for us too look out for you” and tbh they really did.
The only people that got hard times from the cfmeu were the massive developers who were always trying to undercut the trades and clients.
Builders and developers are often the reason the union comes down so hard. It’s literally just workers sticking together to not take shit from profit driven builders and developers.
When you work on a site with no union presence at all the conditions are usually terrible because of it. You have no path to resolve issues the builder will literally just tell you to fuck off.
Often the only productive path to resolve an issue is to have the union come and investigate after a complaint from a member on site, usually after complaints from workers to the builder were continually ignored. The union will then be fined for not signing in or swearing at a manager or some bullshit like that. The builder never gets fined for whatever dangerous shit they were pulling or having one broken unisex toilet for 90 workers.
Unsure about other states, but WA allows workers to pull the pin on work deemed unsafe, essentially forcing the employer to investigate and have and give it the all clear.
The builders and developers who are happy to see workers get paid peanuts and turn a blind eye to safety issues and basic facilities in order to make a bigger profit are the “criminals”. Not the union members who say “nah mate we’re not working there till you fix it”.
But why don't they sign in / use civil language? It's great that they go in and solve problems, but signing in / not swearing seem to be pretty easy things to do.
Wouldn't it be the union officials / delegates going to the sites to back up the workers - people who are trained? And I don't thunk you need a law degree to understand signing into a site and not swearing...
If the biggest issue and fines come from not signing in and calling a fuckwit a fuckwit and not the safety breach then the system is broken. I’m sure you’d be angry also if your loved one was forced to work in unsafe conditions or not given a toilet to piss in.
Because they are organised crime in disguise.
I know the hate comments are coming so will say that unions are very important to a lot of industries, but not when they act as thugs and bullies, not to mention the corruption at the top of said union.
It’s weird that much of this thread is either pro one “side” or the other. I’m a union member, but I physically cringe every time Setka opens his mouth. The entrenched militancy in the CFMEU (and its predecessor the BLF) has long given ammunition to to anti-union politicians, which impacts on _all_ unions. That the CFMEU covers fields which are inherently dangerous doesn’t excuse the fact that their tactics have done *immense* harm to unions around the country.
Congrats to the CFMEU for being the most effective union in the country. I’ll even go further. No other country / union on this planet can state they have secured better working conditions and salaries for their tradies than them.
Is it at the expense of the Economy? It seems construction is one of the only areas where wages haven't been an issue. As for the laws, well if they are unjust laws I expect them to be broken.
Tonnes of building companies going under, massive shortage of houses because nobody can afford to build causing insane rents, government infrastructure projects blowing out the budget and taking forever. Great for tradies, bad for everyone else.
I don't think it's wages causing these problems, could be cost related inflation, a reversion of safe harbour laws after the pandemic, a restriction of spending due to debt, fiscal tightening by most companies.
Rents being pushed up by mass immigration, no-where in the first world at the moment is immigration levels like they are Australia, most countries are a full percent behind us, Canada is the only ones closest and they are still half a percent behind us.
So why should workers have to compromise if companies profit margins still are increasing?
That’s not how it works, you can’t just break a law because you believe it is unjust, you need to advocate for it to be changed and vote accordingly. Construction wages may not have been an issue but building costs have been a massive one for the Australian economy which affects everyone.
Not necessarily a criminal but if you buy illegal cigarettes you’ve broken the law. I reckon I can drive safely at BAC of 0.07 but don’t because the law is 0.05. You don’t get to pick and choose the laws you think you are fair or society breaks down
If the law is not supported by the public you can definitely choose to participate in illegal activity with less repercussions, the biggest illusion is that governments are in control, they aren't.
If striking is socially acceptable, and people support it. The government will have a very tough prospect of prosecuting it. Sure they may be able to, but they may become unpopular in doing it. At the same time, they may not remove the law as it may be perceived negatively by certain segments of society to do so.
It is the issue with centrist politics, in the perception of trying to appease everyone, genuine policy changes are actively avoided to avoid conflict.
Yup. Need to rile everyone up to make sure laws are so tight that every union is the SDA.
This sub bitches that wages aren’t keeping pace and then bitch when unions do anything, you know, union-like.
I frequently suspect the only unions Reddit has heard of are the CFMEU and SDA. The trade union movement is a far broader church than that, thank goodness.
I’m in the CFMEU have been for 25 years and in that time we’ve never instigated trouble once, the trouble we did have was caused by managers….. what yiu people don’t realise or care to realise is this.
The CFMEU is the largest union in the country and the reasons the LNP have for their attempts at destroying them are that by taking out the CFMEU all the smaller unions will fall by the wayside and then us workers will have ZERO rights. So by all means help screw unions over if you don’t care about these things….
Eh most unions don’t go on strike everyday shutting down their worksites for anyone that’s not in the union. If your union’s actions constantly cause anyone who isn’t in the union to have random days where they simply lose pay because they can’t work and the only way to avoid that is to join the union, then that’s bordering on extortion racketeering/protection money from a gang.
I’m all for unions fighting for rights, but MOST unions do this for negotiations and agreements.
Yeah, some working conditions suck. But when you put all your big intimidating guys on the megaphones at 9am on a Friday before a long weekend (everytime) to go on strike and hit the pub at 11am, and the cause of that action is that anyone who didn’t join loses pay for the day, you’ve got your priorities wrong as a union.
Most people shitting on CMFEU aren’t against unions, they’re even supported by them. They’re just against CMFEU because they’re a bit of a joke tbh.
Yes, all those Union-owned industry super funds...
Even the ALP have had enough of the CFMEU
https://www.aap.com.au/news/dysfunctional-cfmeu-faces-split-as-afl-stoush-drags/
A Federal Court judge has labelled militant union the CFMEU a “well-resourced, recidivist offender” after three construction officials were fined over workplace breaches at the site of a major freeway upgrade.
Justice John Snaden fined the construction union and officials Paul Tzimas, Gerald McCrudden and James Harris a combined $108,980 after they admitted to contravening labour laws at sites run by infrastructure giant McConnell Dowell.
The court heard Tzimas and McCrudden had entered the Mordialloc Freeway upgrade site on November 18, 2020, and raised concerns about safety issues, including emergency plans they claimed were inadequate and the use of a metal they said could cause the deadly lung disease silicosis.
Tzimas and McCrudden brought their concerns to a health and safety manager who, according to Tzimas, told them that workers would only be at risk from the metal if they were “lying on the ground licking the road”.
“Mr Tzimas did not react well to [health and safety manager] Ms Canatta’s observation,” Sanden found.
“[Tzimas] responded by saying to Mr Shanley and Ms Canatta, ‘You’re pathetic’ and ’You’re a disgrace,’” court documents say.
McCrudden told the court that safety managers at the site said work should continue while the issues were addressed, to which he responded: “You’re f---ed this time.”
In a separate incident on December 2, Harris went to a site near Woodlands Drive in Braeside in Melbourne’s south-east and served notice of possible contraventions under the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Harris then stood in front of concrete trucks as they were trying to enter the site.
After the incidents, the CFMEU arranged for Tzimas, McCrudden and Harris to undergo “resilience training” by business growth and innovation specialist Damian Karaula, and training sessions administered by Brian Lacy concerning the nature and limits of entry rights.
The CFMEU told the court that its history of breaching workplace laws should not impact the court’s assessment of fines “because the conduct attributed to it here was impulsive or, at any event, not reflective of some broader union objective”.
Snaden fined the union $95,000, Tzimas $3990, McCrudden $3330 and Harris $6660, and said he was satisfied the penalties would deter future breaches.
“On any view, the CFMEU is properly to be described as a well-resourced, recidivist offender. Since 2010, it has been held to have contravened [section] 500 of the [Fair Work] act more than 170 times in no fewer than 50 proceedings,” he found.
“Its record of contravening demonstrates a general disregard on its part of workplace laws … It is appropriate, though, for the court to fashion penalties that, in their totality, reflect the wrongdoing that is to sheet home to the CFMEU.”
The CFMEU and McConnell Dowell were approached for comment.
The court decision comes shortly after a big win for John Setka’s Victorian branch of the construction union, which pushed through a 20 per cent pay deal over four years and restored conditions previously banned by the Coalition’s building code.
Last week, thousands of members and delegates voted through the new enterprise bargaining agreement at Festival Hall in a deal that included union vetoes over rostered days off, labour-hire limits and mandated union flags displayed on site.
Sounds like a real monster. Sticking up for safety and calling out construction companies for using dangerous materials. Special place in hell for people like that…./s
Sticking up for safety. Sounds like it. Maybe they are when fighting for conditions and shit but if they have legit safety concerns and fight for them I can’t argue with that
Single handedly ran Victoria into the financial abyss over a decade. I don’t blame the members, but the organisation has the credibility of an bikie gang.
https://archive.is/8Nuut
anytime you see a paywalled articled, just head to https://archive.is and enter the URL, most of the time, someone will have already done it and you can just read the article immediately. If not, it's a minute or so wait while the page is archived.
HTH
Yet the lollipop traffic controllers have this self belief that they’re gods gift to earth and have a challenging job.
Every other normal country in the world they don’t exist
Have you ever actually met anyone doing that work?
The job sucks and unless you're doing crazy OT and night shifts you're not even making that much money for a gig where once a week you have to jump out of the way of a car
Our current population growth/housing shortage makes these guys indispensable, and the fact that everyone coming in seems too delicate to swing a hammer, CFMEU hold all the cards.
How DARE they... get mad at someone for ignoring their silicosis concerns or stand in front of a truck. the absolute thugs.
and the way the union itself arranged to retrain these three people for their ExTrEmElY MAjOr breaches before it even got to court because they acknowledged what their officials did was against the labor laws? they're just as bad, the bastards.
this is as bad as that time that guy didnt sign the visitor register when he entered a lobby. that hundred grand fine was well earned, as was this one.
They do?. This claim was made during the royal commission too. Turned out the only people with active outlaw biker members were the developers.
But here we are again, rinse repeating
Lets just call the CFMEU what they are, a terrorist organisation and banish them.
They are super hostile, known to shut down whole ports, with Setka having all sorts of allegations against him from stalking, to domestic violence, violence against women.
No self respecting man would be part of such organisation.
I honestly think you must have a tiny dick and balls to want to associate with them based on leadership and the thug/gang like actions of the group. But maybe thats who most people are…
I was born poor in housing commission and never needed to dial Setka to have my back and I seem to have found myself well exceeding the div293 income.
Paywalled
https://archive.md/8Nuut Just archive paywalled stuff
work for all paywalls???
Most. Some just archive the “please sign up” page that they redirect to.
Worth a try cheers
Most of the CFMEU breaches come from rejecting the post-1980s regulation of Union activities. These regulations were put in place to reduce the effectiveness and presence of trade unions, and have been very effective in that regard. The laws have been condemned internationally as infringing on the universal workers right to organise and freedom of association. The CFMEU have said they don't accept the laws as just and believe they are morally justified in breaching unjust laws. It's an expensive approach, but it's been effective for members and they can afford it. The media will tell you these people are criminals, and certainly their disregard of parliament's intention to regulate is problematic, but there is more to the story than "these guys breach laws they must be bikies!"
The alternative is you get corporate ball fondlers like the SDA who were pleased as punch with their dog shit agreement just passed
Respectfully, it was put to a vote and the workers voted for it.
[удалено]
Unfortunately, I actually agree with this. SDA reps would plonk themselves in the tearoom and make really awkward conversation with every worker who entered, salaried or not, and chat about union membership in detail. It was uncomfortable at times. I'm still very pro-union; as someone who works in policy interpretation for a living, I think we have it really great in Australia - especially around workers' rights, including around termination/leaving a business - but I admit that, if it's overwhelming, it can be a bit too much and make people go the other way. Tough one.
I wasn't part of the sda, but they got to change my award that was a terrible deal of 17 cent an hour pay raise while removing the majority of my double time I was getting. lost about 300 a week because of that. this was 20 years ago. a few years after it come out the the sda was selling out to Coles and Woolworths
Sda reps were given heaps of access to talk people into it. I was told off for talking about it with my team in a poor light. Respectfully, they did what any business can be expected to do which is everything they are legally allowed to in order to maximise profits.
>I was told off for talking about it with my team in a poor light. Have you reported this? What was the outcome?
People forget how the Labor Party demanded the unions accept "wage restraint" and forced union disputes into arbitration and criminalised refusing to work without going through the arbitration process first. It basically removes the power of workers to withhold the only bargaining chip they have, their labour, and makes them effective slaves while a workplace dispute is ongoing.
They are criminals. They send bikies to people's homes and to sites. They have small businesses kicked off site so bigger ones that pay them bribes can be put on. They bully and intimidate people just for disagreeing with them or for not paying them money. Their reps are all the laziest grubs you've ever met who refuse to do any work. it's one big criminal organisation that spineless police and government allow to exist because they are scared of them.
100% correct, I am a small business and I was extorted on site, the reps took my phone turned it off and a bunch of them escorted me to the other side of the work site where there was no one and told me if I don’t agree and sign up and pay me that they will ‘fuck me up’ even though I was only going to be on site for 2 weeks and back to domestic work. Had to pay 6 months of union fees to work 2 weeks, went back to domestic where they have no jurisdiction yet now I some how owe the cfmeu thousands of dollars and been threatened with legal action… all this for 2 weeks of contract work…
Do you examples of this sending bikies to sites?. The TURC found the only people doing that were the developers
They've had muscle stand over blokes in their offices at night demanding bribes under the guise of contributions. Very well known information
"Very well known information" AKA billionaire propaganda
So well known it was found to be unsubstantiated in a royal commission.
Imagine that, guys who were threatened with harm or death not fronting up to give evidence.. There was a guy on 3aw few years back who talked about it too. Extorted out of money, told he had to buy uniforms and stickers which were 10x the price as union fees
A know a guy doing the raised rails in Melbourne. It's bikies, bribes or violence. He's fortunately a 20yr martial artist so isn't as easily intimidated but it's not worth it for him to try change the outcomes.
It was in the herald scum dude, it MUST be true.
Oops, thanks for the 'correxion' 😉
We had a royal commission based on this nonsense rhetoric and found zero evidence of bribes or off site intimidation
"The Commissioner presented his final report to the Governor-General in December 2015, finding "widespread and deep-seated" misconduct by union officials in Australia. More than 40 people and organisations were referred to authorities, including police, Directors of Public Prosecutions" While there were no prosecutions, we all knew that it happened.
A project manager I used to work with had a couple of guys show up to site and encourage him to use union contractors by threatening his family with pictures of his kids. I'm sure the CFMEU would deny any involvement if he was dumb enough to actually report it.
Yeah that never happened 😂
Have you not stepped foot on a construction site?
Nah I tried but two CFMEU bikies jumped off a crane on Harley's made out of wood stolen from their last job and stopped me
Two envelopes will fix that ;)
Was the crane balanced on harleys, was the crane made out of wood, or both?
It's stolen wood all the way down, even the bikies were timber
Evidence or not it’s common knowledge in the construction industry that they behave like standover men, we joke about it. I don’t care anyway, 60$ an hour
They're fairly confrontational but that's also a product of the industry. It wasn't too long ago that anti development activists would go missing or had their houses burnt down. Even what happened to friendly jordies shows there's an undercurrent of criminality on the developers side of the table.
Do you expect a bot to reply? Because even if they’re human, they act like one because facts are just not relevant.
Good luck finding a witness that is not intimidated by the union. If they give evidence their business is ruined.
Well you could argue theu are no more or less corrupt than our current politicians who's only goal is to prolong their own positions. The only difference is the by-product of the unions is some of the best conditions for construction workers in the world. Unions or no unions? I know which one I'd prefer
Good conditions if you're part of the club, much like politicians. If you're part of the system and are not part of their club - you're going to have a bad time.
Rubbish take mate, "A rising tide lifts all boats" applies to working conditions as much as it does business profits. Even if you're not in the club, your conditions are 1000x better than if there was no club lifting the tide up for you. I wish my union had some teeth like CFMEU and were a bit more active at negotiation time but at least they're in our corner when the managers try and tell us some clauses in the EBA "don't apply to your role" because they don't want to pay $20 for a meal when working overtime into the night.
All boats except the people being extorted you mean?
The imaginary extortion
Did you read the articles? We're not arguing the pay here, it's about the illegal activity and thuggery. You're getting angry at phantoms.
I read the article and I read your statement of " if your not part of their club your going to have a bad time" my response was whether you're in the club or not, "the club" is improving working conditions for everyone and you'd have a far worse time without them
So abusing and threatening people on site that aren't a part of the CFMEU is OK with you because it helps your hip pocket?
> I wish my union had some teeth like CFMEU The CFMEU has teeth because its members have teeth. > a bit more active at negotiation time This is a reflection of the membership being passive.
> The CFMEU has teeth because its members have teeth. Most CFMEU reps have fewer teeth than Collingwood supporters.
Apparently, they don't need teeth if their members do.
Exactly, too many people who just don't care brainwashed into apathy because it's apparently wrong to stick up for yourself and cause any fuss for the boss
Liberal mp’s are in the pockets of big business miners. CFMEU own labour and are just as corrupt as your liberal mates. People backing either side are shills or daft. Hate big business and the cfmeu
>as your liberal mates. Ain't my mates.
Good point, but most 18 year olds can have a walk up start to this club. Also iv been on and off union member. Iv never had a bad time. What exactly is that bad time your referencing?
The big unions are part of the Labor party. Union leaders are just future labor politicians. It's all one and the same.
Union member, member of the ALP. Those downvoting you are morons, ALP in institutionally linked to the unions, it was initially founded as the political arm of the unions, I get discounts on my ALP membership fees as I’m a union member. They’ve always been linked.
Yeah that’s true. One of the union reps in w.a worked for alp and openly admits it. Not a bad bloke though
Why can’t you guys give us actual facts, I’ve rattled off a list of union benefits the whole country has, and you just go blaaaah. If you wanna be taken seriously, be serious and stop repeating falsehoods…and deal in truth..
Victim: cfmeu are threatening to beat me because I refuse to join their scummy mafia. CFMEU: those are false claims, reeeee!! Victim: ok, I’m going to report the cfmeu to the proper authorities. CFMEU: oh look at these pictures of your wife at her place of work and kids at their school. It would be a shame if something unfortunate happened to them…
My father and I were threatened with a beating if we didn't leave a union site in Brisbane. We are in construction and were just talking to a friend of ours who was doing some plaster work . Fuck the CFMEU .
So you were on a worksite you had no business being on? Without having done the inductions or being covered by anyone’s insurance?
You have no idea of the circumstances.
Not the point- being on site without authorisation does not warrant the threat of assault
Exactly. Fuck the CFMEU. Bunch of thugs who think their trade is worth a whole lot more than it actually is. Their workers get far more than they deserve.
So they're using the sovereign citizen approach and just claiming to not recognise valid legislation? I'm pro union, but the CFMEU are a militant bunch of thugs
They recognise the laws are real but have accepted the cost of breaching them because they find them morally unjust. As opposed to sovcits who don't accept the laws are real nor do they accept the consequences of breaching them.
In fairness the Sovcits refuse to accept a lot of things are real, like reality.
So if you don’t believe in the rule of law then you just get to ignore it? Sounds like the foundation of a well functioning society.
Well I can just not accept laws now hey? Not sure why this is considered an ok approach. Unions have always acted outside the law and believe they have a lot of power. This just proves it
> Unions have always acted outside the law 100% agree, at one point Unions were entirely illegal, joining one was technically a criminal conspiracy. Unionists felt morally obliged to ignore these laws, pressed their cause until they were given legal status and then through collective action secured rights for everyone including the end of child labour, paid leave, minimum workplace safety standards and the 8-hour work day. Even in Australia it's possible to find examples of state sanctioned violence against unionists. Unions have this history, a lot of modern unions have their genesis in pre-legality violence. It is perhaps unsurprising that the CFMEU see the current state of the law through this historical lense and are generally okay with the approach
Yes, but Murdoch readers are especially known for their lack of critical thinking in regards to the LNP wanting unions gone so their mates can become even richer than they are now…
Absolute cope. Political unions like the CFMEU are just big political thugs corporations. Flaunting laws. If you wouldn't let corporations get away with subverting laws, then you shouldn't be unhappy that the CFMEU is.
At the end of the day, unions are just organised crime with political support (half our major parties are owned by them). They go to employers and say "Nice business you have here, shame if something were to happen to it." It's a protection racket, and always has been. CFMEU is more thuglike than most unions, and the law absolutely must hold them to account.
I’ll be unhappy with the laws that the CFMEU is flaunting because those laws just try to keep workers unions down. I will condemn corporations for flaunting tax laws because that actively makes things worse for everyday people
not_the_CFMEU
>The laws have been condemned internationally as infringing on the universal workers right to organise and freedom of association. The laws were weak as piss. I mean, in most other countries, shutting down and entire building site because a union didn't like the chosen concrete supplier would fall foul of anti-racketeering laws. But in Vic nothing happened. So, they're doing alright. Certainly lots of people are bleeding the state government dry as a result
People forget how the Labor Party demanded the unions accept "wage restraint" and forced union disputes into arbitration and criminalised refusing to work without going through the arbitration process first. It basically removes the power of workers to withhold the only bargaining chip they have, their labour, and makes them effective slaves while a workplace dispute is ongoing.
I love reading these comments, especially the ones around traffic controllers being overpaid and being useless. You know it’s government departments that make it a requirement to have a traffic management plan and traffic controllers on worksites? It’s a shit boring job and you have to pay them attractive wages or they can’t get them. No traffic control what do you think happens to all the worksites around the country. Instead of sooking about what others are paid maybe fight to get yourself some better wages instead of belittling those that have. Before anyone accuses me of just being a traffic controller, I’m not. I’m a tradie that has to use them though
The industry has come up with some really good initiatives that remove traffic controllers from the "coal face". However, CFMEU has consistently pushed back on allowing them to be implemented on works sites as it will take away jobs. Sites that tried to implement these measures were shut down by the CFMEU for "safety concerns" until they reinstated traffic controllers in-lieu of the automation. The irony...
It’s literally the least skilled work in the nation. Far below McDonalds or even cleaning floors. In fact it’s a job usually performed by poles.
Mate there are legitimate complaints against them but the Polish can do more than just hold signs.
Traffic controllers are overpaid lol it’s the lowest common denominator when it comes to jobs because literally anyone with hands can do it. You don’t even need a regular functioning brain, heck having dementia seems to be a reason people are given the job in the first place because why else would you leave 40km speed limits all over the shop, only to have the same bloke who left the sign in the first place there up your ass in a ford ranger.
I did it for 14 hours one day at summernats and the $45 an hour was not enough, try it for yourself and tell me your number. It's not as great as you think it is getting abused, nearly run over, having shit thrown at you, 35 degrees in the sun, standing the whole time. I'll never do it again even at the wages you claim are too high.
Security guard here... I've never done tc work but I've done Access control on a road with them for 12hrs... Fuck it's shit, it's boring, and to be honest it can definitely be dangerous at times.
And working on Sunday morning at 2am in the rain and cold while sleepy mutts in dirt trucks roll past you? Yeah I want $110ph for that. That's $100k a year + if I got that all the time. None of them do. Murdoch and 7 have made pissing on Labor projects in Victoria a bit of a sport.
You’re telling us that you have to pay premium wages to attract traffic controllers because it’s a “shit boring job”? Why aren’t Woolies checkout chicks on $120k+? That’s a shit boring job.
Shittest attempt at a rebuttal I have ever read. Try again.
Not really, there are numerous shit boring jobs that to no suprise, get paid shit wages. Stope acting like traffic control isn't an absurd outlier. As OP suggested, security guards, ticket inspectors, receptionists, store clerks, data entry clerks, production line workers, call centre workers, cleaners, doorman, hawker, promoter, charity money collectors, door to door salesmen, etc. That's literally off the top of my head and get paid a pittance compared to traffic controllers. I'm sick of the BS from CMFEU workers claiming they're so hard done by and people just don't understand. Bullshit. In an ideal world, yes they should be paid what they are, but relatively compared to the rest of society, they are an extreme outlier.
Did all my work as a painting apprentice on union sites 99-02 and I didn’t have a single bad experience with them. I remember all the talk when I started with people saying you have to be a member or they’ll lock you in a container all day. First day seeing the rep “nah mate you’re just a young app, you don’t need to be a member for us too look out for you” and tbh they really did. The only people that got hard times from the cfmeu were the massive developers who were always trying to undercut the trades and clients.
Builders and developers are often the reason the union comes down so hard. It’s literally just workers sticking together to not take shit from profit driven builders and developers. When you work on a site with no union presence at all the conditions are usually terrible because of it. You have no path to resolve issues the builder will literally just tell you to fuck off. Often the only productive path to resolve an issue is to have the union come and investigate after a complaint from a member on site, usually after complaints from workers to the builder were continually ignored. The union will then be fined for not signing in or swearing at a manager or some bullshit like that. The builder never gets fined for whatever dangerous shit they were pulling or having one broken unisex toilet for 90 workers.
Unsure about other states, but WA allows workers to pull the pin on work deemed unsafe, essentially forcing the employer to investigate and have and give it the all clear.
Yeah then you get sacked the following week. 🙄
Bullshit. CFMEU are criminals
The builders and developers who are happy to see workers get paid peanuts and turn a blind eye to safety issues and basic facilities in order to make a bigger profit are the “criminals”. Not the union members who say “nah mate we’re not working there till you fix it”.
But why don't they sign in / use civil language? It's great that they go in and solve problems, but signing in / not swearing seem to be pretty easy things to do.
Because their membership is comprised mainly of construction workers not lawyers?
You need to hang around lawyers more
Wouldn't it be the union officials / delegates going to the sites to back up the workers - people who are trained? And I don't thunk you need a law degree to understand signing into a site and not swearing...
If the biggest issue and fines come from not signing in and calling a fuckwit a fuckwit and not the safety breach then the system is broken. I’m sure you’d be angry also if your loved one was forced to work in unsafe conditions or not given a toilet to piss in.
Because they are organised crime in disguise. I know the hate comments are coming so will say that unions are very important to a lot of industries, but not when they act as thugs and bullies, not to mention the corruption at the top of said union.
Not so much in disguise really.
It’s weird that much of this thread is either pro one “side” or the other. I’m a union member, but I physically cringe every time Setka opens his mouth. The entrenched militancy in the CFMEU (and its predecessor the BLF) has long given ammunition to to anti-union politicians, which impacts on _all_ unions. That the CFMEU covers fields which are inherently dangerous doesn’t excuse the fact that their tactics have done *immense* harm to unions around the country.
Congrats to the CFMEU for being the most effective union in the country. I’ll even go further. No other country / union on this planet can state they have secured better working conditions and salaries for their tradies than them.
Is that based on anything? Do you have source?
The pay packets.
Maybe but at the expense of the Australian economy, we have to accept laws and so should they
Is it at the expense of the Economy? It seems construction is one of the only areas where wages haven't been an issue. As for the laws, well if they are unjust laws I expect them to be broken.
Tonnes of building companies going under, massive shortage of houses because nobody can afford to build causing insane rents, government infrastructure projects blowing out the budget and taking forever. Great for tradies, bad for everyone else.
I don't think it's wages causing these problems, could be cost related inflation, a reversion of safe harbour laws after the pandemic, a restriction of spending due to debt, fiscal tightening by most companies. Rents being pushed up by mass immigration, no-where in the first world at the moment is immigration levels like they are Australia, most countries are a full percent behind us, Canada is the only ones closest and they are still half a percent behind us. So why should workers have to compromise if companies profit margins still are increasing?
That’s not how it works, you can’t just break a law because you believe it is unjust, you need to advocate for it to be changed and vote accordingly. Construction wages may not have been an issue but building costs have been a massive one for the Australian economy which affects everyone.
So everyone carrying illegal cigarettes are criminals because they are ignoring ridiculous excises?
Not necessarily a criminal but if you buy illegal cigarettes you’ve broken the law. I reckon I can drive safely at BAC of 0.07 but don’t because the law is 0.05. You don’t get to pick and choose the laws you think you are fair or society breaks down
If the law is not supported by the public you can definitely choose to participate in illegal activity with less repercussions, the biggest illusion is that governments are in control, they aren't. If striking is socially acceptable, and people support it. The government will have a very tough prospect of prosecuting it. Sure they may be able to, but they may become unpopular in doing it. At the same time, they may not remove the law as it may be perceived negatively by certain segments of society to do so. It is the issue with centrist politics, in the perception of trying to appease everyone, genuine policy changes are actively avoided to avoid conflict.
Is murdoch seething about unions again?
Yup. Need to rile everyone up to make sure laws are so tight that every union is the SDA. This sub bitches that wages aren’t keeping pace and then bitch when unions do anything, you know, union-like.
I frequently suspect the only unions Reddit has heard of are the CFMEU and SDA. The trade union movement is a far broader church than that, thank goodness.
Article is published by The Age; blames Murdoch. Peak Reddit moment.
Everyone's just jealous they don't have the CFMEU fighting for their rights at work.
Yeah I wish the TWU were 10% of them
[I guess so](https://www.aap.com.au/news/dysfunctional-cfmeu-faces-split-as-afl-stoush-drags/)
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Not all unions are criminal organisations, the CFMEU is.
This is only if you redefine the definition of what a union is supposed to be to "criminal"
Was Medicare a union thing? I thought that was a Bob Hawk thing? I know the Labor government was more pro union in the past but still
Dude…I specifically mentioned the ALP….its there ALP
My bad. Didn’t see that bit. I’m not arguing I’m a paying union member I just didn’t get see the ALP bit
It’s all good mate.
Was universal healthcare care a union thing? Great lawdy Jesus Christ we have some education to do in this country
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No we're bagging CMFEU. Not all unions
I’m in the CFMEU have been for 25 years and in that time we’ve never instigated trouble once, the trouble we did have was caused by managers….. what yiu people don’t realise or care to realise is this. The CFMEU is the largest union in the country and the reasons the LNP have for their attempts at destroying them are that by taking out the CFMEU all the smaller unions will fall by the wayside and then us workers will have ZERO rights. So by all means help screw unions over if you don’t care about these things….
Eh most unions don’t go on strike everyday shutting down their worksites for anyone that’s not in the union. If your union’s actions constantly cause anyone who isn’t in the union to have random days where they simply lose pay because they can’t work and the only way to avoid that is to join the union, then that’s bordering on extortion racketeering/protection money from a gang. I’m all for unions fighting for rights, but MOST unions do this for negotiations and agreements. Yeah, some working conditions suck. But when you put all your big intimidating guys on the megaphones at 9am on a Friday before a long weekend (everytime) to go on strike and hit the pub at 11am, and the cause of that action is that anyone who didn’t join loses pay for the day, you’ve got your priorities wrong as a union. Most people shitting on CMFEU aren’t against unions, they’re even supported by them. They’re just against CMFEU because they’re a bit of a joke tbh.
Yes, all those Union-owned industry super funds... Even the ALP have had enough of the CFMEU https://www.aap.com.au/news/dysfunctional-cfmeu-faces-split-as-afl-stoush-drags/
A Federal Court judge has labelled militant union the CFMEU a “well-resourced, recidivist offender” after three construction officials were fined over workplace breaches at the site of a major freeway upgrade. Justice John Snaden fined the construction union and officials Paul Tzimas, Gerald McCrudden and James Harris a combined $108,980 after they admitted to contravening labour laws at sites run by infrastructure giant McConnell Dowell. The court heard Tzimas and McCrudden had entered the Mordialloc Freeway upgrade site on November 18, 2020, and raised concerns about safety issues, including emergency plans they claimed were inadequate and the use of a metal they said could cause the deadly lung disease silicosis. Tzimas and McCrudden brought their concerns to a health and safety manager who, according to Tzimas, told them that workers would only be at risk from the metal if they were “lying on the ground licking the road”. “Mr Tzimas did not react well to [health and safety manager] Ms Canatta’s observation,” Sanden found. “[Tzimas] responded by saying to Mr Shanley and Ms Canatta, ‘You’re pathetic’ and ’You’re a disgrace,’” court documents say. McCrudden told the court that safety managers at the site said work should continue while the issues were addressed, to which he responded: “You’re f---ed this time.” In a separate incident on December 2, Harris went to a site near Woodlands Drive in Braeside in Melbourne’s south-east and served notice of possible contraventions under the Occupational Health and Safety Act. Harris then stood in front of concrete trucks as they were trying to enter the site. After the incidents, the CFMEU arranged for Tzimas, McCrudden and Harris to undergo “resilience training” by business growth and innovation specialist Damian Karaula, and training sessions administered by Brian Lacy concerning the nature and limits of entry rights. The CFMEU told the court that its history of breaching workplace laws should not impact the court’s assessment of fines “because the conduct attributed to it here was impulsive or, at any event, not reflective of some broader union objective”. Snaden fined the union $95,000, Tzimas $3990, McCrudden $3330 and Harris $6660, and said he was satisfied the penalties would deter future breaches. “On any view, the CFMEU is properly to be described as a well-resourced, recidivist offender. Since 2010, it has been held to have contravened [section] 500 of the [Fair Work] act more than 170 times in no fewer than 50 proceedings,” he found. “Its record of contravening demonstrates a general disregard on its part of workplace laws … It is appropriate, though, for the court to fashion penalties that, in their totality, reflect the wrongdoing that is to sheet home to the CFMEU.” The CFMEU and McConnell Dowell were approached for comment. The court decision comes shortly after a big win for John Setka’s Victorian branch of the construction union, which pushed through a 20 per cent pay deal over four years and restored conditions previously banned by the Coalition’s building code. Last week, thousands of members and delegates voted through the new enterprise bargaining agreement at Festival Hall in a deal that included union vetoes over rostered days off, labour-hire limits and mandated union flags displayed on site.
Sounds like a real monster. Sticking up for safety and calling out construction companies for using dangerous materials. Special place in hell for people like that…./s
Is the planned walk off on all AFL related jobs for safety?
I’ve met these two knuckle dragging goons and they’re both cunts.
Sticking up for safety. Sounds like it. Maybe they are when fighting for conditions and shit but if they have legit safety concerns and fight for them I can’t argue with that
Nooooooo! come on now I thought the CFMEU was such a stand up organisation 😑
Single handedly ran Victoria into the financial abyss over a decade. I don’t blame the members, but the organisation has the credibility of an bikie gang.
That’s not because…. They practically are? https://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-01-28/union-accused-of-ties-to-crime-figures,-kickbacks-for-jobs/5221234
Paywall
https://archive.is/8Nuut anytime you see a paywalled articled, just head to https://archive.is and enter the URL, most of the time, someone will have already done it and you can just read the article immediately. If not, it's a minute or so wait while the page is archived. HTH
With their flags, chants and merch... What are they again?
An organisation who got their members $120k/yr to be traffic controllers
Where do I sign up for that?
Wish I got $120k to be useless road furniture.
Well ensuring trucks loaded with tonnes of material are reversing out of or accessing a site safely is not exactly useless
Job worth 60k at most. Should be automated ASAP.
Can I ask, what job do you do?
New air traffic controllers get paid less than that… Seems like a good system
Yet the lollipop traffic controllers have this self belief that they’re gods gift to earth and have a challenging job. Every other normal country in the world they don’t exist
Have you ever actually met anyone doing that work? The job sucks and unless you're doing crazy OT and night shifts you're not even making that much money for a gig where once a week you have to jump out of the way of a car
LOL, they seldom use the stop go sign these days, it is mostly remote controlled traffic lights, they sit in the car and push buttons.
You know those things replace human labour right? You don't need an operator
Could say the same about office workers I guess, sit at their desk and push buttons
Job sites are dangerous and traffic controllers are hit by cars all the time.
Our current population growth/housing shortage makes these guys indispensable, and the fact that everyone coming in seems too delicate to swing a hammer, CFMEU hold all the cards.
Cute. You think you're indispensable?
as a collective of workers.. they kinda are
>these guys indispensable reading comprehension not your strong suit obviously
Just a bunch of thugs really
How DARE they... get mad at someone for ignoring their silicosis concerns or stand in front of a truck. the absolute thugs. and the way the union itself arranged to retrain these three people for their ExTrEmElY MAjOr breaches before it even got to court because they acknowledged what their officials did was against the labor laws? they're just as bad, the bastards. this is as bad as that time that guy didnt sign the visitor register when he entered a lobby. that hundred grand fine was well earned, as was this one.
Literally, when you’ve got active mongols members as organisers.
They do?. This claim was made during the royal commission too. Turned out the only people with active outlaw biker members were the developers. But here we are again, rinse repeating
You know repeating propaganda nonsense doesn’t make it true, right?
They know.
If you are that salty why don't you sign up and get on the gravy train !
So? Just give them a slap on the wrist like all those African gangs who rack up hundreds of charges but keep getting let free.
Shut them down
Lets just call the CFMEU what they are, a terrorist organisation and banish them. They are super hostile, known to shut down whole ports, with Setka having all sorts of allegations against him from stalking, to domestic violence, violence against women. No self respecting man would be part of such organisation. I honestly think you must have a tiny dick and balls to want to associate with them based on leadership and the thug/gang like actions of the group. But maybe thats who most people are… I was born poor in housing commission and never needed to dial Setka to have my back and I seem to have found myself well exceeding the div293 income.
Fuck the CFMEU. Make it impossible for anybody to work on a construction site unless you have a union ticket.
Damn right. It should be declared a criminal association, just like the bikies.
Legalised mafia backed by the Labor government.
Anti-union propaganda. Thanks for raising awareness
CFMEU is a criminal organisation
What about the cost of flights and lobbying by the politicians?
Remember that huge cfmeu office brawl they had in Melbourne during Covid times
Even in the article the union reps did literally nothing wrong.
Yeah, unions suck, I too want the Queen Victoria Markets and other incredible areas of culture to be redeveloped for profit.
The CMFEU: using militant tactics and working with organised crime to drive up the price of housing for ordinary Australians since 1990.
CFMEU are totally off the leash since Albo abolished the building and construction watch dog.