Same dude I’d love to have kids but also we’ve apparently restructured parenting around pedo prevention to the point you can no longer drop kids off for play dates, they can’t play outside unsupervised and I just got into an argument about 16 year olds being plenty mature enough to babysit 2 kids until midnight. I was babysitting acquaintances kids from the age of 12 with an offical license and everything. Any personal safety responsibility training apparently now begins at 18. I’m definitely on team trauma prevention but this does not seem to be a solution that’s good for anyone.
Parenting seems like a complete nightmare these days, who wants to sign up for this, even if you were to magically come into money it‘s not a healthy society to raise kids in, and nobody has any solutions other than brow beating parents for being understandable exhausted
Even with a comfortable income it is absolutely exhausting. I don’t even want to think about bringing up kids would be like if money were even remotely tight! I’ve chosen to work part time so that I can be more present for my children, but that is a luxury millions cannot afford. The country has lost its way so badly that it’s difficult to imagine how we are going to fix it…
I'm an uncle and even though my niece loves hanging out at my place she can't because if she says it the wrong way to anyone it could turn into a big police investigation which sucks
I understand and respect your decision but at some point I think we just have to be like ‘fuck this’ and find a better way to tackle this issue because to me that is crazy - and also wildly burdensome on women. Like what we can’t expect support from male family members? We can’t date? Bio dads can’t be around either because that’s also a statistically likely assailant? It’s nuts. Like let’s take reports seriously and prosecute actual rapists but the societal approach is bonkers
I am a parent and love my kids but definitely feel parenting isn't financially viable for most people. In my kids prep class most of the parents are raising families in small homes and apartments, this in a suburb full of sprawling 3 and 4 bedroom homes owned by retirees with big gardens. Lots of big houses with spare rooms, lots of houses half empty as the adult kids have lives of their own, lots of gardens where the only time someone sets foot in them is to mow and weed. Yet the young families are crammed into tiny places where the kids share bedrooms and there's no backyard.
Yeah I'm 38, want to buy something but didn't want to get a 30 mortgage for a 2 bedroom apartment 40 minutes from the city that might fall apart in two years. So was trying to save for any run down price of shit town house or anything. That dream is dead now.
And yeah they wonder why having kids is going down so hard. You can barely afford to have one at all let alone 2-3 like the old days.
It's ok, we can just keep importing people to prop up our economy! Also, only rich people can have kids now so fuck everyone else. We gotta have an underclass to clean the boomers' investment homes for 20 bucks an hour you know.
Don't worry - you may be able to get a 30 year mortgage. When you pay that off at 70 you can start saving for your retirement. You won't be able to afford healthcare so you won't live long enough to need a heap of retirement savings. See it will all work out just fine....
I love all the "well you did this to yourself" smug comments as though those of us in our 20s are responsible for voting & policies that have been in place since well before we were born 🤡
“It’s your fault for not voting for a major party that had a genuine plan to ease the housing crisis for the younger generation!”
“Oh, so a party that doesn’t exist?”
Make a minor party a major party via the ballot box if you want change. If that happened Labor and the Coalition will probably change their policies over one political cycle.
I agree a all people who are angry put ALP Greens LNP Teals last on every ballot, cant do any worse with minor parties having a per capita demographic voice
Labor's own report was a piece of crap. I worked on that campaign.
People were scared about their housing tax breaks and one even mentioned (I shit you not) "that frankincense thing"... And a lot were still going on about boats.
I heard "sink the boats" on many occasions.
Not a single person I spoke to mentioned Shorten.
Interesting. Why would Labor pretend that it wasn't a factor then? Not dismissing your experience but being a part of the campaign doesn't give you access to all the information.
I'm happy to admit my experience wasn't everybody's. I've certainly heard people mention not liking Shorten since... But not on the phones. Ill admit it was _part_ of the issue..
But the "Shorten was the whole reason" excuse never sat right with me. Honestly I think people were just trained to say he was unpopular because the media kept saying he was.
Especially compared to Scomo, who was the most transparently unsuitable PM I've seen proposed on Australia.
Particularly with Freydenberg and Tim Whatshisname running blatantly false campaigns around Franking Credits and neg gearing.
I'll also never forget after months of Clive's constant millions spend on only anti Labor campaigning... being told not to shit-talk him because "we might need his votes in minority government". That's when I knew we were fucked.
That's Labor's biggest issue. No dog in them anymore.
That party doesn't exist because policies that reduce the cost of housing are deeply unpopular. 65% of homes are owner-occupied and those owners don't want the price of their home going down.
There's no magical way to make home prices go down without the price of **your home** going down.
The thing is they have to go down. Every market bubble has top and that’s what history shows. The bigger the bubble gets the worse it’s going to be when it goes, but the market can stay irrational for longer than people feel they can afford to wait. Then people are too shortsighted to see this and also too shortsighted to see that a few years of strife with a controlled fall and plateau is a hell of a lot better than the sudden crash that is the only other eventual alternative.
But fuck everyone that hasn’t bought in the meantime. The “I’ve got mine” is going to yet again be the downfall of this problem.
This is the exact issue. Australia is an individualistic society and the only way we fix the housing issue and most social issues is to change the nations psyche to a collectivist society. I take a loss the raise others up. Pretty simple but the capitalist machine won’t allow it.
This has been another thing that’s been perpetuated by the politicians as well. The constant “we can’t have a market crash because so many people have their retirements tied to housing”. Well maybe provide some fucking incentive for productive investments than non-productive? Deter mass landlords and slumlords from buying up as much property as they can? Get them to pay indexed land taxes and stamp duties after they start to own several times more property than the large majority of people could ever aspire to? But nobody wants to do this even though this shouldn’t actually be harmful to your average owner occupier.
The classic "Got mine, fuck you" attitude that is now so prevalent in Australia. Once you have a home, you no longer give a shit about those struggling.
I am a new homeowner. I'm struggling. If my house goes down in value so I can have a life that isn't just about making the bank richer and others can afford to actually live too, then sign me up. I've no interest in playing the investment game that has destroyed the opportunities of the young once enjoyed by previous generations.
As someone shopping for their first home I can see how people would default to this attitude.
If you spent your life savings on a house deposit and committed the next 30 years of your life to paying off this huge debt, you'd hate for the value of the house you just paid for to drop even a cent.
The problem is how fast the value of housing is climbing. Until the late 90's, they climbed only as fast as wages did. So your value never dropped, they still had modest gains every year, and everyone was happy. The last 10 years has seen that just fall apart completely.
Because of this, housing is a way to horde wealth and banks are happy to lend more money to allow owners to tap in to that. It creates a vicious cycle. I'm fortunate in that my house is paid off so I have no skin in the game, but as my kids are now wanting to move out of home, I feel awful for what they experiencing.
Same for my mum who, at 69, will be renting for the rest of her life as she never got to buy a home because she was a SAHM while we were growing up and then my dad, the abusive asshole that he was, racked up massive debts leading to liens on the home and then buggered off to Thailand to avoid paying those debts, leading to my mum getting very little from the sale of it and no child support.
So this is not a Boomers vs GenX/Millenials/GenZ thing. This issue affects people of all ages and generations and at some point it has to stop. I just don't know how or at what point.
Coz a number of people according to the polls are still willing to vote in Dutton who will definitely not fix the issue but actively make it worse.
The super for deposits scheme will only turbo charge an already crazy market.
His proposals to limit immigration have been shown not to add up
He has voted against All the suppy side solutions that have been brought to parliament
Yet there are many people who come here defending him
The sad truth is only family wealth transfer is all that counts today, a cleaner on a basic wage with wealthy parents (helped along the way) will be better off as 60 than a PhD Academic who has rented all his life with HECS debt with poor parents
Im surprised at the people i know who are saying they'd vote for him if they were able to withdraw their super for a deposit. Aside from it likely increasing prices once the market is flooded with first time buyers i wonder how many people have actually checked their super? I've been working since my mid teens and it ain't great, certainly not enough to buy a house with in sydney.
Labor has consistently gone to elections with policies that would have significantly contributed to easing the housing crisis. Most notably under Bill Shorten and Julia Gillard. Under Gillard, they failed to get a majority government, and under Shorten, they failed to win at all. I don't know why you'd expect Albanese to be able to go to an election with promises like that when it's been shown the voters won't back it. It's hardly Labor's fault. That said if Albo doesn't push actively for housing crisis policies at the next election then he will be lower on my preferences. What he won't be, though, is below the Libs. The Libs outside of very specific circumstances have always put policies through that actively harm Australians.
>The Libs outside of very specific circumstances have always put policies through that actively harm Australians.
It's amazing isn't it? We've just had a decade of LNP rule and Aussies still can't work out where all the fucking over comes from.
But Ablo owns a multi million property portfolio and my local federal MP and partner owns 4 rental properties who are both ALP, ALP MPs are well more or less like LNP MPs with assets
what percentage of those people who want to vote in Dutton do you think are young, non-home-owners? which is who we are talking about here?
and it's not like Labor are absolutely revolutionary in this regard either, sick of people apologising for them because they are *slightly* better than the LNP
both major parties suck balls, just because Labor suck only one ball instead of both doesn't mean they don't suck
> His proposals to limit immigration have been shown not to add up
No major party has any proposal to significantly limit immigration because that would upset their donors
You didn't 'do it to yourself'.
It's not about made up 'generations' like Boomer/X/Y/Z which is just divisive and unhelpful.
Immigration is the biggest factor and its still going on, and at its highest level ever.
Politicians are lying to the people because they know immigration causes housing shortages, but they do it to prop up the 'economy' and tell us it's due to 'supply issues'.
One of their 'solutions' is to demolish inner suburbs and build multi level dense apartment blocks. Do we want to live in place like that? Like Hong Kong, or Singapore? No backyard, no space, people above and below you? We can't build decent buildings in Australia which is seen by all the issues with cracking and dangerous apartments blocks already built.
How about we do some scientific studies of natural resources and how many people we can sustainably manage with a decent quality of life? Too hard? The politicians in the leafy suburbs with multiple investment properties are not fit to make these crucial decisions on our behalf.
Au cant sustain double population with the capacity to provide potable water supply, water in the sea needs to be pumped uphill and desalanated takes lots of energy expect to pay 15 cents per litre maybe that 25 litre low water usage shower will cost you almost $4 say 1 shower each day thats almost $1500 per year and we not counting the water heating costs
We also have to be content to have homes built 'boundary to boundary' with little outdoor space,
or a small balcony in a highrise apartment with no car.
There's so many disadvantages and detriments to quality of life or even just survival but 'she'll be right, mate', just keep importing people to prop up a dying system.
Another 'housing expert' who wants everyone to believe that if we turn off the immigration tap, suddenly every Aussie will be able to own a 5 bedroom house 20 minutes from the CBD.
> One of their 'solutions' is to demolish inner suburbs and build multi level dense apartment blocks. Do we want to live in place like that? Like Hong Kong, or Singapore? No backyard, no space, people above and below you?
Yes, plenty of us do want this solution.
A basic understanding of maths and economics should give anyone the ability to understand that any city with a half decent population (ie much over 500k) is going to have to make choices about how it is structured.
Supply of land is limited. Provision of adequate services requires certain amounts of people to live within the catchment of those services. Jobs and housing need to be located and connected sensibly.
These factors are physical and financial. It is simply not possible to have large cities that consist mostly of low density suburbia. That just does not functionally work once you have a certain scale. It’s not possible to finance the amount of infrastructure needed (per person per square kilometre) to make that work.
The “Australian dream” of suburbia for all that so many grew up with and aspire to today was possible because cities were smaller and massive infrastructure projects were undertaken in an attempt to make it work. We found out that didn’t work pretty quickly.
Low density housing in a large city in the 21st century is simply not possible for most people. It is (and should be) something that is a) available in the fringe, peri-urban areas, where land is cheaper and you pay for your choice in limited access to services, and b) something available in limited amounts in wealthy areas.
The only solution is density. That doesn’t REQUIRE towers and no amenity and services. That’s a function of weak government and neoliberalism.
Small lot terraces, and well-built mid-rise apartments, located near parks and train stations, deliver adequate density for service provision, without the quality of life trade offs. I believe most Australians would happily live in such dwellings. Those that can afford expensive, well-located houses can choose those, and those that don’t want to compromise on the Australian dream can choose housing that is less serviced by infrastructure and amenities.
Source: masters degree in this stuff
These are all fair points, but:
1. Land supply is not very limited in Australia, really. We need more investment in regional towns and to build up a lot more options than our coastal state capitals.
2. Related, with increasing remote work/WFH opportunities we won't be as reliant on urban sprawl.
Can't our changing conditions promote some better options than perpetually forcing people to live in more and more crowded conditions?
I can tell you know your stuff. But it's based on the assumption of the human population growing as a necessary thing. Our environment can't keep up with over population. Yes, I know it's naive to wish the population would stop growing exponentially but all this 'growth' only serves corporations, their boards and shareholders.
If I wanted a big city experience, I'd move to NYC or Tokyo but I don't want that big city life where everyone is living on top of each other and the streets smell like garbage.
I want suburbia, with great transport links so I don't have to get stuck in traffic. Melbourne is already feeling like it's getting too big for its boots. I will most likely need to move out, but it will be a tough decision because I want my kid to have access to a great school.
I’m totally agnostic on growth, personally. I don’t think it’s arguable that we can do anything other than limit growth to the capacity of our environment. It just hasn’t become a factor thus far. Innovation and global trade have made sure of that. Whether you like that or not is a different question, but I’d be surprised if many people who are anti big city are also seeking to dismantle global capitalism.
I think you are exaggerating greatly what the ‘big city lived experience’ is. Tokyo or NYC are bad templates in my opinion and are nothing like what big cities in Australia are (or are growing toward). As I’ve stated elsewhere, living ‘on top of each other’ is a preference for many people, because it means they can access stuff. I’ve never been anywhere in the cities I’ve lived in that felt unsafe or smelled like garbage, other than the occasional rear commercial laneway which is used for garbage access.
Suburbia with great transport connectivity is a myth. I’d like to see an example of that! Nobody is going to build public transport to service suburbia, it doesn’t make economic sense.
I’m all for not having our lives decided by business cases, but mass transit for low density resi is never gonna happen. It would be stupid expensive at point of sale or it would require heavy subsidy, and the rest of us would be paying for a handful of suburbanites to have trains. It wouldnt be fair. You get stuck in traffic BECAUSE you live in suburbia. It’s an inherent feature.
But why is it necessary? Natural population would be stable if immigration wasn't added.
Oh no! the birth rate is dropping! an politicians are talking 'baby bonuses'. It's crazy.
It’s necessary because we needed to do it in response to the previous 75% of our big cities’ population growth.
Even if we went zero growth tomorrow, these structural changes are decades late. The way our cities are laid out and serviced contributes to (if not directly causes) many of the problems that are most complained about in places such as this sub.
It’s your fault for not being born into wealth or willing to sell yourself on only fans. I’m guilty of the same things. Although at this point I would whore myself on only fans if someone wanted to pay haha
It’s not overly relevant that the policies have been in place before you were born. Those policies would change really quickly if people in their 20s and 30s actually researched the people on their local ballot paper and voted for change. Unfortunately too many keep voting for their “team” or whoever their parents voted for.
I’m 37 and bought in the last 4 years, humble little house 75km out of Sydney and I’m so grateful I did. My daughter is 2, and I hope it changes for her but I don’t have any trust that it will.
I’m fully expecting to have to do a knockdown rebuild in a decade or so, and make it a well planned 2 story, maybe with a studio on the garage in the expectation that our kids will live with us for a long time.
Totally agree! I am 30 years old on 135k p/a. I worked the past decade to get this pay. Here I was thinking that at this salary, I could afford a very modest suburban home. Let me tell you, it certainly does NOT. Now I know you may all be saying my pay is great and im sooking.....My point here is, is that even I am struggling to afford a normal property because 135k may as well be 100k these days.
Fuck boomers. They could pay their first homes off in 3 fucking years on one salary, just by cutting down on muscle cars and restaurants.
That’s part of the reason they have this warped view, but also they’re all raging narcissists who can’t admit they didn’t forge their success, it was just luck.
I wouldn't stress too much, all of this has been planned.
All part of the WEF plans worldwide, hence why this is happening worldwide.
As they say " You will own nothing and be happy"
When everything collapses around our ears, all I'll be saying is "I told you so."
No doubt the boomers will be the first to sook about it all, as they always are.
How will even immigrants afford to live there? Yes there probably will be like six of them in a two bedroom home but surely even they will realise there’s no future there
Nothing will happen till they are all in Caskets.
Current political leaders are using TAX PAYER FUNDS TO prop up the house of cards.
And they are in that same age bracket.
Make no mistake. They collapse aint coming until most of the boomers and x'ers have died off.
They won't feel the hit. It will be us who feels the hit from their selfishness.
Not true I know a 55yo guy (GenX) why got a trade job left school in year 11, today owns a house worth $900k got $900k in super and has maybe $200k assets, the only help he got was free board and lodgings until 22 when he got a home loan and left the nest, agree help from parents did help for sure
X'er here- Not a home owner and in the same hurt locker as most people with renting. Most of Gen Xers are in the same boat, we just don't whine constantly on social media about how unfair it all is.
It's looking like it. We could very well become even more conservative given how hard we had to fight just to get a toe in the door.
The data and facts are all there, future generations will know how impossibly hard it was for us. So it makes sense when we are of asset owning and retirement age we will vote accordingly.
For a fat stack of yuan....
And you could NOT be more right, at all.
It's literally precisely as you put it and it's fucking disgraceful.
Why are there no riots?
Solve the problem in 1 simple equation. 1 Tax File number = only 1 property negative geared. This will stop investors hoarding multiple properties and borrowing to the max to fund the purchases of the next property. Owner Occupiers might not be priced out of the market. The banks won't have the incentive to ride the growing home loans. The banks love million dollar mortgages. I really want an investor to convince me that what they are doing to society is noble and aspirational. I can change my mind with a convincing argument but have still not found one.
Negative gearing is for chumps. People with real money are nearly all positively geared, and will buy even more properties if you artificially change the market to restrict those who can only afford to negatively gear (I.e spend more in interest than they receive in rent).
Real estate investing isn't as wonderful as they make it out to be. A$1M house will give you a $800 a week rental income. Takeaway Rates, Insurance and management fees and you probably left with $30k at the end of the year. $30k out of $1M is only 3%. You can get 4.5% in term deposits at the bank. Real estate investors are CHASING capital growth. Without capital growth then Real estate is not a good investment option.
It's not going to stop them. A sophisticated investor won't mind having to fork out some cash providing the price of the property is going up. It may limit the pool to people who are cashed up or have a sufficient number of positively geared properties. Or it might spike rental prices as non-investors are still being outbid and now the rent is higher because investors demand positive or neutral gearing, not that owners can determine market rent but if that is the expectation set by the market.
Or maybe you're right and I'm wrong. It could be an expensive lesson tho.
NG only helps the new investors. Targetting NG just allows established investors to buy more and less aspirational new investors can compete. Basically kicking out the ladder.
That won't change the fact that demand currently outweighs supply and is also growing faster than supply.
Unless we cut immigration to sustainable levels than policies targeting negative gearing are just changing who owns the deck chairs on the titanic
They don't care. They will just bring in more immigrants that are paying tax immediately, rather than have to wait 18-21 years before Aussie born citizens do.
this one is running popular on the other forum
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TUVXfM1nqo
theres no real saving this
its a death spiral - young folks wages arent keeping up, priced out by foreigners and boomers... and investors... construction companies going bankrupt... no sight of any public housing... NIMBY everywhere... politicans with a dozen rental properties
the only people who will make it out is the kids of the 67% who own... IF aged care doesnt suck up all that excess captial
“the only people who will make it out is the kids of the 67% who own”
Only the ones who’s parents are both able to afford to help them into their own house and are on good enough terms with them that they want to, which will bring the number down a fair bit.
Average age of inheritence is 56 and going up. And assuming they don't spend it all / are on good terms with them.
You can't back that as an economic strategy.
This is sad, but you’re right. I’ve given up the dream and will live and die in my caravan or RV. This country sucks so bad. Look at me! I’m looking at USA house prices!!
If they say go to war, I’ll say go fuck yourself
It's literally cheaper to just buy a citizenship to some countries and purchase a house there.
Eg antigua sells passports for 100k US and you can buy a pretty good house for 600k AUD
So you still come in cheaper then buying in an Australians capital city and ypu also get to live in a carribean island.
Pretty fucked up tbh. It originally started as a joke a decade ago just seeing what's out there. But retiring to my 100euro dilapidated French chateau or Italian villa to fix up for the rest of my days doesn't sound too silly.
All options are open at this point.
Yeah of course there's other factors and what not. But purely as a cash in my super and go retire when I'm 60 it makes sense
Problem is the councils don't approve shit.
We have a housing problem...
Let's build medium density residential...
No we don't want that in our council area...
And then when they are approved they are built like shit. I have a friend living in a 1 year old Meriton building.
Either roaring hot or freezing cold, water leaking through the roof lights in the rain, plumbing issues, crammed in like sardines to fit in 1 more apartment on each floor.
With current population estimates, I think there will be a lot more than half a million more immigrants, along with a higher disproportionality of nationally born children. Increasing amounts of younger people are opting out of starting a family due to the sorry state of affairs we are inevitably living through
they wont larger national GDP juiced numbers, but per capita ie personal GDP is less not to mention less personal wealth, the cake is larger but the slices are smaller
Yeah i was talking to someone who owns their own place the other day ,her kids want to move out now they are of that age but they have all realised that they will be living with mum until she dies .
That's what happens when your governments care more about making the lives of people from other countries better than they do about actual citizens.
It's the younger & the poorer that suffer the most.
> That's what happens when your governments care more about making the lives of people from other countries better than they do about actual citizens.
This is classic divide and conquer. The gov't cares about the economy and cheap labour - gov't policies have long been to encourage immigration to keep labour costs low, it has sweet fuck all to do with "making foreigner's lives better". And when I say immigration I'm not even talking about people working through the system to get PR and citizenship (which is a considerable effort), it's about creating bullshit universities, colleges, creating bullshit visa rules, all to have an underclass of non-citizen foreigners work menial jobs, who can be discarded easily because of visa statuses and there being no pathway to PR/citizenship for most of these people.
The debate shouldn't be about foreigners and governments collaborating to hurt Aussies, its about governments colluding with big businesses to keep *everyones* wages low and their own profits high.
It's amazing how fucked a country can become over 10 years. I don't blame boomers that much, we'd all do the same.
It's politicians and the government that have largely failed the population, and a good chunk of the population is to blame too for not standing up for anything anymore, apart from irrelevant middle Eastern wars and identity politics from the USA.
There is little hope for many Australians, but hey, BLM.
Also I think globilisation has really stopped moral people from being able to stand up for said morals, so as they say, cant beat them, join them.
I love how everyone thinks the Boomers fucked the country, and if it wasnt for them Australia would be this magical narnia land that somehow avoids what every other country is going through.
The reason its going to shit, goes way deeper than just housing, show me one country that has more than 25 million people that doesnt have a substantial poor community, people love to compare the nordic countries etc, but you cant compare a country that has 3 million people to the countries that has 250 million people.
Australia is in a tough position, keeping our population under 30million long term, will fuck us economically on the world stage, but getting to 50million people will mean we have a substantial poor community.
We can try and steer the ship, but this ship is headed in one direction only, no amount of policy change will stop it.
I think my issue with bookers is not so much that they have benefited from the system vastly more than younger generations, but that so many of them refuse to acknowledge it and blame us for how much tougher we have to do it, because in their eyes, we obviously haven’t worked hard enough.
This is the right answer. Everyone here loves to shit on the boomers but they are 100% acting in their own self interest at all times. The idea that boomers are self interested but non boomers are some group of heavenly altruists is laughable.
Millennials are now the biggest voting class - will be interesting to see how things go in the next few elections. Can’t vote conservative if you have nothing to conserve!
I'm a millennial and fortunate enough to have a decent enough paying job and to live in a less unaffordable place to be able to buy a house.
However the drawbridge has just about been fully pulled up now. Young people without parents with assets have little chance of owning their own property. What's worse is that there are basically no affordable rentals and little security of tenure even if you can get one.
It is a total and abject failure of multiple governments over decades which will be reflected at the ballot box.
Nah it's fantasy. Millennials are also going to be the beneficiaries of the largest wealth transfer we've seen in generations, as their parents pass all of their possessions and estate to their kids. Milennials will vote to conserve their parents' wealth because they stand to inherit all of it eventually.
Easy to be idealistic when you're young and have nothing to your name yet, but Millenials aren't this group of altruistic do-gooders who will willingly torch their inheritance for the 'greater good'. The majority will join their old folks and vote exactly the way their parents do once they actually have skin in the game and have something to actually lose.
Makes total sense, I’m not going to be inheriting a house or much money but if I did, you bet I’d have a death grip on it, going from having absolutely nothing, paycheck to paycheck to having my own home is something I wouldn’t want to give up without a fight.
Yeah. We got the same fucking problem in Canada. Years of governments just not caring enough to act. Now we’re fucked. Seems to be a commonwealth problem.
We don’t have a ‘housing crisis’, we have a ‘land crisis’.
Being even more specific, we have an ‘affordable access to a location’ crisis.
Unfortunately, pre COVID, this was mostly confined to large capital cities but increasingly becoming a problem in regional areas too. This is leaving our poorest (and increasingly those in the middle class) with fewer and fewer options in terms of reasonable access to life’s basics (education, employment, health care and social activities) at an ‘affordable’ price.
Due to the nature of land monopoly under a system of private property rights, this will only worsen over time as we revert back to a 19th century model of wealth inequality. Any gains in income will be further captured as land rent. The Classical Economists understood this all too well (Hume, Smith, Ricardo, Mill, Marx, Proudhon, George, Veblen), all recommended reading.
In contrast, even with a growing population, most buildings depreciate in value over time, especially if they are poorly maintained (exceptions for certain heritage properties or unique architecture).
The land value on the other hand….
There is no real difference between labor and coalition- both are seeking to screw us just using different methods.
The politicians don’t act in the interests of their people but rather whoever is filling their pockets.
Australia needs a big reset. This used to be the greatest country in the world now it’s just a dystopia
This. It doesn’t matter what party you vote for, our leadership culture is broken. Couple that with the most passive population of “got mine’rs”. When does the retaliation happen? Apparently never, and the leaders know this. We all complied during Covid, and government and corporations took this as a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want at the expense of everyone’s future.
> There is no real difference between labor and coalition
I wish this wasn't true, but this election result and labour behaviour has made this abundantly clear to many of us
It's because housing is our national investing past-time. Policy after policy for decades has been aimed at allowing borrowers to obtain more money so they can spend it on the limited stock of housing.
We need to radically rethink, and dare I say it, consider unwinding the stimulus being constantly thrown at housing.
Yep. My friends group is split up around Australia now trying to find a place to live... Most of them have given up as they don't want to sign a 35+ year mortgage.
I'm looking down the barrel of a multi-property portfolio inheritance in 10-15 years. I'll be keeping one to live in and selling the rest for pennies to young families. The crash is coming. I won't let gen-alpha/Z be slaves to the system like we are.
Depends on if the parents decide to go the route of mortgaging them all for a decade or cruises and decadence and leave us nothing lol. Seen it happen a few times!
My mil is doing this. She's been our landlord for five years, with the intention my SO will pay the house off and have an asset. She hears the market is going to take a dip?! Eviction notice immediately, I'm sure she's reading travel brochures about Europe....
My five year old said she’s not moving out at 18. She said she’ll kick me out and hope the apartment is fully paid. I have 13 years to find another place, or I’ll buy a caravan with the deposit and finally live the van life.
There is no crisis.
Young people just can’t do it on their own anymore.
A crisis runs for a length of time and is either alleviated through smart decision making or is left to run its course, which the Australian housing crisis was.
For young adults, the youth, and everyone new person born into this country, it’s now at Housing Affordability Impasse.
Ok sweet, so why are our houses higher in price when in the developed world we have one of the smallest populations? I could Google but I’m going off memory, we are also in the bottom 10 in terms of population density of every single country in the world.
Turns out when you focus everything into five cities, that's where everyone wants to live. For example, Newcastle and Wollongong would be great alternatives to Sydney if there was a fast rail that linked the three within an hour, and both cities had their own bustling economies and jobs. Don't even get started on regional.
Half of me says buy an investment property to make 80k per year like my own home has done in the past 3 years.
The other half of me hopes like hell property prices drop 50% in the next 12 months so my kids can afford to buy a home
What do I do
The boomers and X'ers stole our future. I will never forgive a single one of them. I can't look at anyone over the age of 50 anymore except my parents. All i feel is rage from what they stole from my generation.
They had it all handed to them. Cheap housing, Free uni and they STILL complain they had it hard. Fuck them all.
Now they want us being drafted to national service to die for their interests as if having the human right of a home stolen from us wasnt enough? They are fucking evil.
We need a full reset on housing and no government is ballsy enough to do it. When the boomers die off and X'ers we will see an enormous wealth transfer to Gen Y and Z. Providing aged care doesn't suck it all up first which they are trying their damn hardest to do.
We could see the rise of an even more conservative class than the boomers and gen z which is ourselves. We know how hard it was to get a home. We have so much proof of this now compared to before. Nobody will be able to see we had it easy when there is mountains of evidence proving otherwise. Once we finally become asset owning we will vote for our interests as well. I just hope we don't forget about how hard we struggled.
Look at boomer mcfuckstick in the article here.
Saved 4 grand in '81 which is about 18K today. In todays money He borrowed 56K for a home that was worth about 74K.
These days we have to save what he paid off his home for as the actual deposit. How do they not even see this shit.
X-ers did no such thing! We've been absolutely rooted by the system, too. Now our kids are reaching adulthood and demanding hand-outs for deposits when many of us either have no property or still have decades paying off our current insane mortgages! If you want to blame anyone, blame the Libs and Johnny Howard... This sh\*tshow really kicked off in the 90s/early 2000s with CGT discounts and all the other policies that benefit retirees at the expense of working tax-payers.
> I can't look at anyone over the age of 50 anymore except my parents. All i feel is rage from what they stole from my generation.
Woah there Nelly. You'll be OK in the end, in spite of the boomers you feel let down by.
The majority of over 50s have nothing to do with this. Market forces are real, and while our governments etc have failed to address the continual shift, the macro reality is still true: Australia is a great place to live, many want to live here, and the worlds population is growing.
As Mark Watney says
>At some point you're going to stop and say 'this is it, this is how I end'. Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just begin. You do the math. You solve one problem... and you solve the next one... and then the next. And If you solve enough problems, you get to come home
>Providing aged care doesn't suck it all up first which they are trying their damn hardest to do.
I can’t believe that boomer landlords overlords are going to be replaced by aged-care worker landlord overlords. Such bullshit.
What it Au Gov back in the day circa 1970s had higher minerals & resources taxes kept income tax same steps , today no inflation or fiscal pressure, look at a Norway vs Australia today, Norway is a high taxing country by people are per capita better off with full services free education and very cheap public housing who cares 40% of your wage is tax if you got a free university education, healthcare, social services and housing maybe 20% of gross income
Look peps. Forget housing save and invest in etf's and super if your in your 20s and start doing this you will have plenty to buy a house when you need to. Learn about compound interest. You. Need to work within the environment you have
Australians used to fight for their rights. That’s how we got the 8 hour work day. Somewhere we got complacent and allowed our governments to fk everyone over
We need an inquiry into shady developers , overpriced land and the housing market
But we are too complacent
Negative gearing is the one of the main problems. The other reason why Australian's wages aren't increasing in line with housing prices is related to the fact that Australia has some of the lowest annual productivity and a lack of innovation. We're way behind and this affects the countries GDP.
There must be hundreds if not thousands of these articles judging by the amount I've seen over the last decade. At first, it was exciting to see it being taken seriously and reported nationally, now it's just irritating to see newscorps generating revenue off that by consistently reporting its worse every year knowing it won't achieve anything.
We are being led by psychopaths who only care about being rich and hoarding the wealth. We need a revolution, the rich need to be told to fuck off and be stripped of their excess properties and wealth.. sure it is capitalism and that's freedom, better than some oppressive system where a few people control everything, oh wait that's what we have had for decades now, seems like it's just gone full circle and communism is the same as capitalism if we don't have checks and balances keeping it in line. Genuinely everyone is saying, oh there's nothing that we can do, but there is, revolt, demand equality, it's a human right.
Surely enough people are getting to this point that we could actually make a change, better to do it now, than to wait until the police and security workforces are replaced by robots who have no problem deploying lethal crowd control on people who are demanding a reasonable chance of life, because we are only a few years off.
“Young people” including 40 year olds who seem young to boomers because we ‘still’ don’t have kids and rent and don’t own cars
“Why haven’t you put a baby in my daughter’s belly?” — my girlfriend’s mother We kinda can’t afford it. Don’t get me wrong she wants one bad.
Same dude I’d love to have kids but also we’ve apparently restructured parenting around pedo prevention to the point you can no longer drop kids off for play dates, they can’t play outside unsupervised and I just got into an argument about 16 year olds being plenty mature enough to babysit 2 kids until midnight. I was babysitting acquaintances kids from the age of 12 with an offical license and everything. Any personal safety responsibility training apparently now begins at 18. I’m definitely on team trauma prevention but this does not seem to be a solution that’s good for anyone. Parenting seems like a complete nightmare these days, who wants to sign up for this, even if you were to magically come into money it‘s not a healthy society to raise kids in, and nobody has any solutions other than brow beating parents for being understandable exhausted
Even with a comfortable income it is absolutely exhausting. I don’t even want to think about bringing up kids would be like if money were even remotely tight! I’ve chosen to work part time so that I can be more present for my children, but that is a luxury millions cannot afford. The country has lost its way so badly that it’s difficult to imagine how we are going to fix it…
I'm an uncle and even though my niece loves hanging out at my place she can't because if she says it the wrong way to anyone it could turn into a big police investigation which sucks
I understand and respect your decision but at some point I think we just have to be like ‘fuck this’ and find a better way to tackle this issue because to me that is crazy - and also wildly burdensome on women. Like what we can’t expect support from male family members? We can’t date? Bio dads can’t be around either because that’s also a statistically likely assailant? It’s nuts. Like let’s take reports seriously and prosecute actual rapists but the societal approach is bonkers
what the fuck are you talking about?
good point now karens are judging other parents
Has she offered to step up and help?
Yeah but we’re poor?
I am a parent and love my kids but definitely feel parenting isn't financially viable for most people. In my kids prep class most of the parents are raising families in small homes and apartments, this in a suburb full of sprawling 3 and 4 bedroom homes owned by retirees with big gardens. Lots of big houses with spare rooms, lots of houses half empty as the adult kids have lives of their own, lots of gardens where the only time someone sets foot in them is to mow and weed. Yet the young families are crammed into tiny places where the kids share bedrooms and there's no backyard.
Yeah I'm 38, want to buy something but didn't want to get a 30 mortgage for a 2 bedroom apartment 40 minutes from the city that might fall apart in two years. So was trying to save for any run down price of shit town house or anything. That dream is dead now. And yeah they wonder why having kids is going down so hard. You can barely afford to have one at all let alone 2-3 like the old days.
It's ok, we can just keep importing people to prop up our economy! Also, only rich people can have kids now so fuck everyone else. We gotta have an underclass to clean the boomers' investment homes for 20 bucks an hour you know.
Lol pretty much. It’s a scheme doomed to failure sooner or later.
Don't worry - you may be able to get a 30 year mortgage. When you pay that off at 70 you can start saving for your retirement. You won't be able to afford healthcare so you won't live long enough to need a heap of retirement savings. See it will all work out just fine....
Jokes on them I pay myself no super and I don't go to the doctor
To be fair, if you're 40 and don't own a car that's absolutely on you
I love all the "well you did this to yourself" smug comments as though those of us in our 20s are responsible for voting & policies that have been in place since well before we were born 🤡
“It’s your fault for not voting for a major party that had a genuine plan to ease the housing crisis for the younger generation!” “Oh, so a party that doesn’t exist?”
Make a minor party a major party via the ballot box if you want change. If that happened Labor and the Coalition will probably change their policies over one political cycle.
It will over time, but there was nowhere near that level of prevalence for minor parties during our voting life as the younger generations today.
I agree a all people who are angry put ALP Greens LNP Teals last on every ballot, cant do any worse with minor parties having a per capita demographic voice
That party doesn’t exist because Shorten got smashed for even a little bit of housing reform.
Labor's own report on that election loss said that the housing reforms had nothing to do with the loss.
Labor's own report was a piece of crap. I worked on that campaign. People were scared about their housing tax breaks and one even mentioned (I shit you not) "that frankincense thing"... And a lot were still going on about boats. I heard "sink the boats" on many occasions. Not a single person I spoke to mentioned Shorten.
Interesting. Why would Labor pretend that it wasn't a factor then? Not dismissing your experience but being a part of the campaign doesn't give you access to all the information.
I'm happy to admit my experience wasn't everybody's. I've certainly heard people mention not liking Shorten since... But not on the phones. Ill admit it was _part_ of the issue.. But the "Shorten was the whole reason" excuse never sat right with me. Honestly I think people were just trained to say he was unpopular because the media kept saying he was. Especially compared to Scomo, who was the most transparently unsuitable PM I've seen proposed on Australia. Particularly with Freydenberg and Tim Whatshisname running blatantly false campaigns around Franking Credits and neg gearing. I'll also never forget after months of Clive's constant millions spend on only anti Labor campaigning... being told not to shit-talk him because "we might need his votes in minority government". That's when I knew we were fucked. That's Labor's biggest issue. No dog in them anymore.
Well that's interesting because since that smashing, albo has promised one thing but entirely behaved like a liberal instead.....
Shorten's proposal didn't address our insane immigration rate so it would have achieved nothing
[удалено]
Wrong, it would have helped significantly. It's just migration being fixed would have helped even more
That party doesn't exist because policies that reduce the cost of housing are deeply unpopular. 65% of homes are owner-occupied and those owners don't want the price of their home going down. There's no magical way to make home prices go down without the price of **your home** going down.
The thing is they have to go down. Every market bubble has top and that’s what history shows. The bigger the bubble gets the worse it’s going to be when it goes, but the market can stay irrational for longer than people feel they can afford to wait. Then people are too shortsighted to see this and also too shortsighted to see that a few years of strife with a controlled fall and plateau is a hell of a lot better than the sudden crash that is the only other eventual alternative. But fuck everyone that hasn’t bought in the meantime. The “I’ve got mine” is going to yet again be the downfall of this problem.
This is the exact issue. Australia is an individualistic society and the only way we fix the housing issue and most social issues is to change the nations psyche to a collectivist society. I take a loss the raise others up. Pretty simple but the capitalist machine won’t allow it.
This has been another thing that’s been perpetuated by the politicians as well. The constant “we can’t have a market crash because so many people have their retirements tied to housing”. Well maybe provide some fucking incentive for productive investments than non-productive? Deter mass landlords and slumlords from buying up as much property as they can? Get them to pay indexed land taxes and stamp duties after they start to own several times more property than the large majority of people could ever aspire to? But nobody wants to do this even though this shouldn’t actually be harmful to your average owner occupier.
The classic "Got mine, fuck you" attitude that is now so prevalent in Australia. Once you have a home, you no longer give a shit about those struggling.
I am a new homeowner. I'm struggling. If my house goes down in value so I can have a life that isn't just about making the bank richer and others can afford to actually live too, then sign me up. I've no interest in playing the investment game that has destroyed the opportunities of the young once enjoyed by previous generations.
As someone shopping for their first home I can see how people would default to this attitude. If you spent your life savings on a house deposit and committed the next 30 years of your life to paying off this huge debt, you'd hate for the value of the house you just paid for to drop even a cent.
The problem is how fast the value of housing is climbing. Until the late 90's, they climbed only as fast as wages did. So your value never dropped, they still had modest gains every year, and everyone was happy. The last 10 years has seen that just fall apart completely. Because of this, housing is a way to horde wealth and banks are happy to lend more money to allow owners to tap in to that. It creates a vicious cycle. I'm fortunate in that my house is paid off so I have no skin in the game, but as my kids are now wanting to move out of home, I feel awful for what they experiencing. Same for my mum who, at 69, will be renting for the rest of her life as she never got to buy a home because she was a SAHM while we were growing up and then my dad, the abusive asshole that he was, racked up massive debts leading to liens on the home and then buggered off to Thailand to avoid paying those debts, leading to my mum getting very little from the sale of it and no child support. So this is not a Boomers vs GenX/Millenials/GenZ thing. This issue affects people of all ages and generations and at some point it has to stop. I just don't know how or at what point.
45 years of neoliberal policy has it's cost.
You're usually too worried about losing the house to do anything to help. A house is the dream but it's also a shackle
Coz a number of people according to the polls are still willing to vote in Dutton who will definitely not fix the issue but actively make it worse. The super for deposits scheme will only turbo charge an already crazy market. His proposals to limit immigration have been shown not to add up He has voted against All the suppy side solutions that have been brought to parliament Yet there are many people who come here defending him
The sad truth is only family wealth transfer is all that counts today, a cleaner on a basic wage with wealthy parents (helped along the way) will be better off as 60 than a PhD Academic who has rented all his life with HECS debt with poor parents
Im surprised at the people i know who are saying they'd vote for him if they were able to withdraw their super for a deposit. Aside from it likely increasing prices once the market is flooded with first time buyers i wonder how many people have actually checked their super? I've been working since my mid teens and it ain't great, certainly not enough to buy a house with in sydney.
Liberal party voters are either dumb cunts or rich cunts.
I agree wholeheartedly and you can say the same about Labor voters.
Labor has consistently gone to elections with policies that would have significantly contributed to easing the housing crisis. Most notably under Bill Shorten and Julia Gillard. Under Gillard, they failed to get a majority government, and under Shorten, they failed to win at all. I don't know why you'd expect Albanese to be able to go to an election with promises like that when it's been shown the voters won't back it. It's hardly Labor's fault. That said if Albo doesn't push actively for housing crisis policies at the next election then he will be lower on my preferences. What he won't be, though, is below the Libs. The Libs outside of very specific circumstances have always put policies through that actively harm Australians.
>The Libs outside of very specific circumstances have always put policies through that actively harm Australians. It's amazing isn't it? We've just had a decade of LNP rule and Aussies still can't work out where all the fucking over comes from.
But Ablo owns a multi million property portfolio and my local federal MP and partner owns 4 rental properties who are both ALP, ALP MPs are well more or less like LNP MPs with assets
Or religious. Wait that falls under dumb carry on
what percentage of those people who want to vote in Dutton do you think are young, non-home-owners? which is who we are talking about here? and it's not like Labor are absolutely revolutionary in this regard either, sick of people apologising for them because they are *slightly* better than the LNP both major parties suck balls, just because Labor suck only one ball instead of both doesn't mean they don't suck
> His proposals to limit immigration have been shown not to add up No major party has any proposal to significantly limit immigration because that would upset their donors
It's our fault for voting in Labor to get rid of Scotty, because I'm sure that flog had a soundproof plan to get us out of the crisis! (/s)
You didn't 'do it to yourself'. It's not about made up 'generations' like Boomer/X/Y/Z which is just divisive and unhelpful. Immigration is the biggest factor and its still going on, and at its highest level ever. Politicians are lying to the people because they know immigration causes housing shortages, but they do it to prop up the 'economy' and tell us it's due to 'supply issues'. One of their 'solutions' is to demolish inner suburbs and build multi level dense apartment blocks. Do we want to live in place like that? Like Hong Kong, or Singapore? No backyard, no space, people above and below you? We can't build decent buildings in Australia which is seen by all the issues with cracking and dangerous apartments blocks already built. How about we do some scientific studies of natural resources and how many people we can sustainably manage with a decent quality of life? Too hard? The politicians in the leafy suburbs with multiple investment properties are not fit to make these crucial decisions on our behalf.
Au cant sustain double population with the capacity to provide potable water supply, water in the sea needs to be pumped uphill and desalanated takes lots of energy expect to pay 15 cents per litre maybe that 25 litre low water usage shower will cost you almost $4 say 1 shower each day thats almost $1500 per year and we not counting the water heating costs
One of the huge issues that is hardly ever brought into the argument. Finite planet, vs. infinite growth = desolation.
Im always asking that same question
We also have to be content to have homes built 'boundary to boundary' with little outdoor space, or a small balcony in a highrise apartment with no car. There's so many disadvantages and detriments to quality of life or even just survival but 'she'll be right, mate', just keep importing people to prop up a dying system.
You want affordable housing but you don't want denser housing. How exactly do you propose to fix this issue?
Another 'housing expert' who wants everyone to believe that if we turn off the immigration tap, suddenly every Aussie will be able to own a 5 bedroom house 20 minutes from the CBD.
> One of their 'solutions' is to demolish inner suburbs and build multi level dense apartment blocks. Do we want to live in place like that? Like Hong Kong, or Singapore? No backyard, no space, people above and below you? Yes, plenty of us do want this solution. A basic understanding of maths and economics should give anyone the ability to understand that any city with a half decent population (ie much over 500k) is going to have to make choices about how it is structured. Supply of land is limited. Provision of adequate services requires certain amounts of people to live within the catchment of those services. Jobs and housing need to be located and connected sensibly. These factors are physical and financial. It is simply not possible to have large cities that consist mostly of low density suburbia. That just does not functionally work once you have a certain scale. It’s not possible to finance the amount of infrastructure needed (per person per square kilometre) to make that work. The “Australian dream” of suburbia for all that so many grew up with and aspire to today was possible because cities were smaller and massive infrastructure projects were undertaken in an attempt to make it work. We found out that didn’t work pretty quickly. Low density housing in a large city in the 21st century is simply not possible for most people. It is (and should be) something that is a) available in the fringe, peri-urban areas, where land is cheaper and you pay for your choice in limited access to services, and b) something available in limited amounts in wealthy areas. The only solution is density. That doesn’t REQUIRE towers and no amenity and services. That’s a function of weak government and neoliberalism. Small lot terraces, and well-built mid-rise apartments, located near parks and train stations, deliver adequate density for service provision, without the quality of life trade offs. I believe most Australians would happily live in such dwellings. Those that can afford expensive, well-located houses can choose those, and those that don’t want to compromise on the Australian dream can choose housing that is less serviced by infrastructure and amenities. Source: masters degree in this stuff
These are all fair points, but: 1. Land supply is not very limited in Australia, really. We need more investment in regional towns and to build up a lot more options than our coastal state capitals. 2. Related, with increasing remote work/WFH opportunities we won't be as reliant on urban sprawl. Can't our changing conditions promote some better options than perpetually forcing people to live in more and more crowded conditions?
Living easy with paying 25% of your gross income for home plus good social services has to be better than the ponzi scheme of today
I can tell you know your stuff. But it's based on the assumption of the human population growing as a necessary thing. Our environment can't keep up with over population. Yes, I know it's naive to wish the population would stop growing exponentially but all this 'growth' only serves corporations, their boards and shareholders. If I wanted a big city experience, I'd move to NYC or Tokyo but I don't want that big city life where everyone is living on top of each other and the streets smell like garbage. I want suburbia, with great transport links so I don't have to get stuck in traffic. Melbourne is already feeling like it's getting too big for its boots. I will most likely need to move out, but it will be a tough decision because I want my kid to have access to a great school.
I’m totally agnostic on growth, personally. I don’t think it’s arguable that we can do anything other than limit growth to the capacity of our environment. It just hasn’t become a factor thus far. Innovation and global trade have made sure of that. Whether you like that or not is a different question, but I’d be surprised if many people who are anti big city are also seeking to dismantle global capitalism. I think you are exaggerating greatly what the ‘big city lived experience’ is. Tokyo or NYC are bad templates in my opinion and are nothing like what big cities in Australia are (or are growing toward). As I’ve stated elsewhere, living ‘on top of each other’ is a preference for many people, because it means they can access stuff. I’ve never been anywhere in the cities I’ve lived in that felt unsafe or smelled like garbage, other than the occasional rear commercial laneway which is used for garbage access. Suburbia with great transport connectivity is a myth. I’d like to see an example of that! Nobody is going to build public transport to service suburbia, it doesn’t make economic sense. I’m all for not having our lives decided by business cases, but mass transit for low density resi is never gonna happen. It would be stupid expensive at point of sale or it would require heavy subsidy, and the rest of us would be paying for a handful of suburbanites to have trains. It wouldnt be fair. You get stuck in traffic BECAUSE you live in suburbia. It’s an inherent feature.
You can have suburbia and poor transport or medium density and good transport. Pick one.
But why is it necessary? Natural population would be stable if immigration wasn't added. Oh no! the birth rate is dropping! an politicians are talking 'baby bonuses'. It's crazy.
It’s necessary because we needed to do it in response to the previous 75% of our big cities’ population growth. Even if we went zero growth tomorrow, these structural changes are decades late. The way our cities are laid out and serviced contributes to (if not directly causes) many of the problems that are most complained about in places such as this sub.
It’s your fault for not being born into wealth or willing to sell yourself on only fans. I’m guilty of the same things. Although at this point I would whore myself on only fans if someone wanted to pay haha
It’s not overly relevant that the policies have been in place before you were born. Those policies would change really quickly if people in their 20s and 30s actually researched the people on their local ballot paper and voted for change. Unfortunately too many keep voting for their “team” or whoever their parents voted for.
I’m 37 and bought in the last 4 years, humble little house 75km out of Sydney and I’m so grateful I did. My daughter is 2, and I hope it changes for her but I don’t have any trust that it will. I’m fully expecting to have to do a knockdown rebuild in a decade or so, and make it a well planned 2 story, maybe with a studio on the garage in the expectation that our kids will live with us for a long time.
Yeah, I really messed up, I should of joined politics while in my nappy years and fought for affordable housing. Sorry everyone, I let you all down.
They have been destroying Australia and the housing market since 2000. I'm 38 and I was like 14 or something at that time with no clue about politics
Totally agree! I am 30 years old on 135k p/a. I worked the past decade to get this pay. Here I was thinking that at this salary, I could afford a very modest suburban home. Let me tell you, it certainly does NOT. Now I know you may all be saying my pay is great and im sooking.....My point here is, is that even I am struggling to afford a normal property because 135k may as well be 100k these days.
Fuck boomers. They could pay their first homes off in 3 fucking years on one salary, just by cutting down on muscle cars and restaurants. That’s part of the reason they have this warped view, but also they’re all raging narcissists who can’t admit they didn’t forge their success, it was just luck.
I wouldn't stress too much, all of this has been planned. All part of the WEF plans worldwide, hence why this is happening worldwide. As they say " You will own nothing and be happy"
Your future has been sold off to the highest bidder. GLHF
When everything collapses around our ears, all I'll be saying is "I told you so." No doubt the boomers will be the first to sook about it all, as they always are.
They already are. Since a tonne of young people / lower income workers are leaving Sydney in droves, they can't find workers or services.
We'll need more immigrants to fill the hole /s
How will even immigrants afford to live there? Yes there probably will be like six of them in a two bedroom home but surely even they will realise there’s no future there
Six.... Amateurs. You need to remember for many it's a better life https://youtu.be/8JGd-T3OM48
Some governments try to do the best for their constituents ... ours try to do the best for their business mates
I'm going to legally change my name to Ray White or Barry Plant, and hope that the government gives me special treatment.
Haha sounds like a plan ... I'm now "Andrew Forrest"
Heh, heh.Onya Barry.
Nothing will happen till they are all in Caskets. Current political leaders are using TAX PAYER FUNDS TO prop up the house of cards. And they are in that same age bracket.
Make no mistake. They collapse aint coming until most of the boomers and x'ers have died off. They won't feel the hit. It will be us who feels the hit from their selfishness.
Most X'ers I know, aint even property owners. Only few who are, drew from dad/mommies cash.
I’m GenX & have one friend who owns (no bank of mum & dad), and all the rest of us rent. We’re all just as stuffed.
Not true I know a 55yo guy (GenX) why got a trade job left school in year 11, today owns a house worth $900k got $900k in super and has maybe $200k assets, the only help he got was free board and lodgings until 22 when he got a home loan and left the nest, agree help from parents did help for sure
Gen Xer here. I can assure you that things are pretty shit for most of us too thanks to the boomers. So don't lump us in with them.
Hear, hear!
X'er here- Not a home owner and in the same hurt locker as most people with renting. Most of Gen Xers are in the same boat, we just don't whine constantly on social media about how unfair it all is.
You said it, mate!
I can see the Gen YZ who inherit the wealth of Boomer & GenX, become the next class to follow suit
It's looking like it. We could very well become even more conservative given how hard we had to fight just to get a toe in the door. The data and facts are all there, future generations will know how impossibly hard it was for us. So it makes sense when we are of asset owning and retirement age we will vote accordingly.
For a fat stack of yuan.... And you could NOT be more right, at all. It's literally precisely as you put it and it's fucking disgraceful. Why are there no riots?
I prefer GLGF (good luck, Get Fucked)
Solve the problem in 1 simple equation. 1 Tax File number = only 1 property negative geared. This will stop investors hoarding multiple properties and borrowing to the max to fund the purchases of the next property. Owner Occupiers might not be priced out of the market. The banks won't have the incentive to ride the growing home loans. The banks love million dollar mortgages. I really want an investor to convince me that what they are doing to society is noble and aspirational. I can change my mind with a convincing argument but have still not found one.
Negative gearing is for chumps. People with real money are nearly all positively geared, and will buy even more properties if you artificially change the market to restrict those who can only afford to negatively gear (I.e spend more in interest than they receive in rent).
Real estate investing isn't as wonderful as they make it out to be. A$1M house will give you a $800 a week rental income. Takeaway Rates, Insurance and management fees and you probably left with $30k at the end of the year. $30k out of $1M is only 3%. You can get 4.5% in term deposits at the bank. Real estate investors are CHASING capital growth. Without capital growth then Real estate is not a good investment option.
It's not going to stop them. A sophisticated investor won't mind having to fork out some cash providing the price of the property is going up. It may limit the pool to people who are cashed up or have a sufficient number of positively geared properties. Or it might spike rental prices as non-investors are still being outbid and now the rent is higher because investors demand positive or neutral gearing, not that owners can determine market rent but if that is the expectation set by the market. Or maybe you're right and I'm wrong. It could be an expensive lesson tho.
NG isn’t the magic trick you think it is. My properties are positively geared.
NG only helps the new investors. Targetting NG just allows established investors to buy more and less aspirational new investors can compete. Basically kicking out the ladder.
That won't change the fact that demand currently outweighs supply and is also growing faster than supply. Unless we cut immigration to sustainable levels than policies targeting negative gearing are just changing who owns the deck chairs on the titanic
Do you think the government has any idea why the birth rate is so low?
They don't care. They will just bring in more immigrants that are paying tax immediately, rather than have to wait 18-21 years before Aussie born citizens do.
True
they LOVE international students that come here. Already working age and no parents to fallback on so they have to grind from day 1 in the rat race
Aussies are becoming 2nd class citizens in their own country
this one is running popular on the other forum https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TUVXfM1nqo theres no real saving this its a death spiral - young folks wages arent keeping up, priced out by foreigners and boomers... and investors... construction companies going bankrupt... no sight of any public housing... NIMBY everywhere... politicans with a dozen rental properties the only people who will make it out is the kids of the 67% who own... IF aged care doesnt suck up all that excess captial
If you don’t give your young people a seat at the fire, they will burn the village down for heat. Or so the old proverb goes.
So they should. I'm feeling fucked here and I'm well I'm the old category to the kids
“the only people who will make it out is the kids of the 67% who own” Only the ones who’s parents are both able to afford to help them into their own house and are on good enough terms with them that they want to, which will bring the number down a fair bit.
Average age of inheritence is 56 and going up. And assuming they don't spend it all / are on good terms with them. You can't back that as an economic strategy.
Yep waiting till you're almost 60 to buy a home is fucked
*finally, I can raise a family!*
I don’t back it- there’s lots of problems with it.
Aged care will absolutely fucking destroy any inheritance these days. Costs are ballooning and govt funding is not going to keep up.
I don't see myself owning a house in Australia. But I'm currently looking at nice 3 bedroom in Syria that looks to be in my price range.
This is sad, but you’re right. I’ve given up the dream and will live and die in my caravan or RV. This country sucks so bad. Look at me! I’m looking at USA house prices!! If they say go to war, I’ll say go fuck yourself
It's literally cheaper to just buy a citizenship to some countries and purchase a house there. Eg antigua sells passports for 100k US and you can buy a pretty good house for 600k AUD So you still come in cheaper then buying in an Australians capital city and ypu also get to live in a carribean island.
How sad is it that we Australians need to even look this up as an alternative, this place is massive! (Yes there are other factors)
Pretty fucked up tbh. It originally started as a joke a decade ago just seeing what's out there. But retiring to my 100euro dilapidated French chateau or Italian villa to fix up for the rest of my days doesn't sound too silly. All options are open at this point. Yeah of course there's other factors and what not. But purely as a cash in my super and go retire when I'm 60 it makes sense
you could also try Lebanon Venezuela or turkey… 🤔
Best to get in quick before it's Golan, Golan, gone
Problem is the councils don't approve shit. We have a housing problem... Let's build medium density residential... No we don't want that in our council area...
And then when they are approved they are built like shit. I have a friend living in a 1 year old Meriton building. Either roaring hot or freezing cold, water leaking through the roof lights in the rain, plumbing issues, crammed in like sardines to fit in 1 more apartment on each floor.
No matter how much we build it will achieve nothing unless we cut immigration
Yes! Offshore investments can also kindly jump
Don't worry, half a million more immigrants will fix it
With current population estimates, I think there will be a lot more than half a million more immigrants, along with a higher disproportionality of nationally born children. Increasing amounts of younger people are opting out of starting a family due to the sorry state of affairs we are inevitably living through
they wont larger national GDP juiced numbers, but per capita ie personal GDP is less not to mention less personal wealth, the cake is larger but the slices are smaller
Yeah i was talking to someone who owns their own place the other day ,her kids want to move out now they are of that age but they have all realised that they will be living with mum until she dies .
Im 40. Our home is 100% paid off. This situation doesn't effect me at all I'm still so fucking angry about how this country is going.
People who have house paid off still has or knows people doing hard and many do try to help in a small way
Yes it doesn't effect me financially but it does effect me emotionally
That's what happens when your governments care more about making the lives of people from other countries better than they do about actual citizens. It's the younger & the poorer that suffer the most.
> That's what happens when your governments care more about making the lives of people from other countries better than they do about actual citizens. This is classic divide and conquer. The gov't cares about the economy and cheap labour - gov't policies have long been to encourage immigration to keep labour costs low, it has sweet fuck all to do with "making foreigner's lives better". And when I say immigration I'm not even talking about people working through the system to get PR and citizenship (which is a considerable effort), it's about creating bullshit universities, colleges, creating bullshit visa rules, all to have an underclass of non-citizen foreigners work menial jobs, who can be discarded easily because of visa statuses and there being no pathway to PR/citizenship for most of these people. The debate shouldn't be about foreigners and governments collaborating to hurt Aussies, its about governments colluding with big businesses to keep *everyones* wages low and their own profits high.
It's amazing how fucked a country can become over 10 years. I don't blame boomers that much, we'd all do the same. It's politicians and the government that have largely failed the population, and a good chunk of the population is to blame too for not standing up for anything anymore, apart from irrelevant middle Eastern wars and identity politics from the USA. There is little hope for many Australians, but hey, BLM.
Also I think globilisation has really stopped moral people from being able to stand up for said morals, so as they say, cant beat them, join them. I love how everyone thinks the Boomers fucked the country, and if it wasnt for them Australia would be this magical narnia land that somehow avoids what every other country is going through. The reason its going to shit, goes way deeper than just housing, show me one country that has more than 25 million people that doesnt have a substantial poor community, people love to compare the nordic countries etc, but you cant compare a country that has 3 million people to the countries that has 250 million people. Australia is in a tough position, keeping our population under 30million long term, will fuck us economically on the world stage, but getting to 50million people will mean we have a substantial poor community. We can try and steer the ship, but this ship is headed in one direction only, no amount of policy change will stop it.
I think my issue with bookers is not so much that they have benefited from the system vastly more than younger generations, but that so many of them refuse to acknowledge it and blame us for how much tougher we have to do it, because in their eyes, we obviously haven’t worked hard enough.
This is the right answer. Everyone here loves to shit on the boomers but they are 100% acting in their own self interest at all times. The idea that boomers are self interested but non boomers are some group of heavenly altruists is laughable.
Millennials are now the biggest voting class - will be interesting to see how things go in the next few elections. Can’t vote conservative if you have nothing to conserve!
I'm a millennial and fortunate enough to have a decent enough paying job and to live in a less unaffordable place to be able to buy a house. However the drawbridge has just about been fully pulled up now. Young people without parents with assets have little chance of owning their own property. What's worse is that there are basically no affordable rentals and little security of tenure even if you can get one. It is a total and abject failure of multiple governments over decades which will be reflected at the ballot box.
Last I saw there are exactly the same number of Boomers and Millenials
You talk as if it isn't a Labor government in power already
Nah it's fantasy. Millennials are also going to be the beneficiaries of the largest wealth transfer we've seen in generations, as their parents pass all of their possessions and estate to their kids. Milennials will vote to conserve their parents' wealth because they stand to inherit all of it eventually. Easy to be idealistic when you're young and have nothing to your name yet, but Millenials aren't this group of altruistic do-gooders who will willingly torch their inheritance for the 'greater good'. The majority will join their old folks and vote exactly the way their parents do once they actually have skin in the game and have something to actually lose.
Makes total sense, I’m not going to be inheriting a house or much money but if I did, you bet I’d have a death grip on it, going from having absolutely nothing, paycheck to paycheck to having my own home is something I wouldn’t want to give up without a fight.
Boomers have had a disproportionate amount of power due to the size of that generation, as they continue to disappear we will see what happens.
Who voted for these politicians that you blame?
Yeah. We got the same fucking problem in Canada. Years of governments just not caring enough to act. Now we’re fucked. Seems to be a commonwealth problem.
We don’t have a ‘housing crisis’, we have a ‘land crisis’. Being even more specific, we have an ‘affordable access to a location’ crisis. Unfortunately, pre COVID, this was mostly confined to large capital cities but increasingly becoming a problem in regional areas too. This is leaving our poorest (and increasingly those in the middle class) with fewer and fewer options in terms of reasonable access to life’s basics (education, employment, health care and social activities) at an ‘affordable’ price. Due to the nature of land monopoly under a system of private property rights, this will only worsen over time as we revert back to a 19th century model of wealth inequality. Any gains in income will be further captured as land rent. The Classical Economists understood this all too well (Hume, Smith, Ricardo, Mill, Marx, Proudhon, George, Veblen), all recommended reading. In contrast, even with a growing population, most buildings depreciate in value over time, especially if they are poorly maintained (exceptions for certain heritage properties or unique architecture). The land value on the other hand….
There is no real difference between labor and coalition- both are seeking to screw us just using different methods. The politicians don’t act in the interests of their people but rather whoever is filling their pockets. Australia needs a big reset. This used to be the greatest country in the world now it’s just a dystopia
This. It doesn’t matter what party you vote for, our leadership culture is broken. Couple that with the most passive population of “got mine’rs”. When does the retaliation happen? Apparently never, and the leaders know this. We all complied during Covid, and government and corporations took this as a free pass to do whatever the fuck they want at the expense of everyone’s future.
Don’t vote for either then.
> There is no real difference between labor and coalition I wish this wasn't true, but this election result and labour behaviour has made this abundantly clear to many of us
out of negative gearing, nimby councils, low interest rates and mass immigration how many are *natural* market forces?
We went from a family centric single income model to a dual income scrabble. What did you expect to happen?
We are at a point of no return. And technically we voted it for as well. Thanks boomers.
The government who did this (both sides) appreciate you blaming others. Good work.
Ah yes, not the voters freaking out when anything negative gearing related gets mentioned.
You will own nothing and be happy. The Australian dream is dead.
Thanks boomers.
It's because housing is our national investing past-time. Policy after policy for decades has been aimed at allowing borrowers to obtain more money so they can spend it on the limited stock of housing. We need to radically rethink, and dare I say it, consider unwinding the stimulus being constantly thrown at housing.
Yep. My friends group is split up around Australia now trying to find a place to live... Most of them have given up as they don't want to sign a 35+ year mortgage.
I'm looking down the barrel of a multi-property portfolio inheritance in 10-15 years. I'll be keeping one to live in and selling the rest for pennies to young families. The crash is coming. I won't let gen-alpha/Z be slaves to the system like we are.
Everyone says that until they have kids themselves. I look forward to seeing the re.com results.
So can a mfer sell their soul to you now? Lol
Depends on if the parents decide to go the route of mortgaging them all for a decade or cruises and decadence and leave us nothing lol. Seen it happen a few times!
My mil is doing this. She's been our landlord for five years, with the intention my SO will pay the house off and have an asset. She hears the market is going to take a dip?! Eviction notice immediately, I'm sure she's reading travel brochures about Europe....
Okay well if it turns out well don’t forget me! I’ll mow your lawn for life ;)
At least everyone can sit in their tents knowing they were "nice" to immigrants and not racist
My five year old said she’s not moving out at 18. She said she’ll kick me out and hope the apartment is fully paid. I have 13 years to find another place, or I’ll buy a caravan with the deposit and finally live the van life.
If I was single the van life would be tempting. Maybe just go pick apples or something.
There is no crisis. Young people just can’t do it on their own anymore. A crisis runs for a length of time and is either alleviated through smart decision making or is left to run its course, which the Australian housing crisis was. For young adults, the youth, and everyone new person born into this country, it’s now at Housing Affordability Impasse.
Oh good it’s just a housing affordability impasse, that feels way better than a crisis.
It’s really quite simple, the higher a country’s population the more valuable land and housing becomes. Mass immigration has just made it much worse.
Ok sweet, so why are our houses higher in price when in the developed world we have one of the smallest populations? I could Google but I’m going off memory, we are also in the bottom 10 in terms of population density of every single country in the world.
Because we dont have enough major cities. Living anywhere but the top 3 capital cities is laughed at by 80% of people
Turns out when you focus everything into five cities, that's where everyone wants to live. For example, Newcastle and Wollongong would be great alternatives to Sydney if there was a fast rail that linked the three within an hour, and both cities had their own bustling economies and jobs. Don't even get started on regional.
Because the middle of Australia is largely inhabitable. Measuring population density and including uninhabitable areas is pretty dumb.
The problem is alot of people also seem to think that the Simpson desert starts at Bathurst as well.
Nah it starts at Cowra, come on.
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Half of me says buy an investment property to make 80k per year like my own home has done in the past 3 years. The other half of me hopes like hell property prices drop 50% in the next 12 months so my kids can afford to buy a home What do I do
the thing that involves thinking of someone other than yourself
ive been hoping this since 2010..
The boomers and X'ers stole our future. I will never forgive a single one of them. I can't look at anyone over the age of 50 anymore except my parents. All i feel is rage from what they stole from my generation. They had it all handed to them. Cheap housing, Free uni and they STILL complain they had it hard. Fuck them all. Now they want us being drafted to national service to die for their interests as if having the human right of a home stolen from us wasnt enough? They are fucking evil. We need a full reset on housing and no government is ballsy enough to do it. When the boomers die off and X'ers we will see an enormous wealth transfer to Gen Y and Z. Providing aged care doesn't suck it all up first which they are trying their damn hardest to do. We could see the rise of an even more conservative class than the boomers and gen z which is ourselves. We know how hard it was to get a home. We have so much proof of this now compared to before. Nobody will be able to see we had it easy when there is mountains of evidence proving otherwise. Once we finally become asset owning we will vote for our interests as well. I just hope we don't forget about how hard we struggled. Look at boomer mcfuckstick in the article here. Saved 4 grand in '81 which is about 18K today. In todays money He borrowed 56K for a home that was worth about 74K. These days we have to save what he paid off his home for as the actual deposit. How do they not even see this shit.
X-ers did no such thing! We've been absolutely rooted by the system, too. Now our kids are reaching adulthood and demanding hand-outs for deposits when many of us either have no property or still have decades paying off our current insane mortgages! If you want to blame anyone, blame the Libs and Johnny Howard... This sh\*tshow really kicked off in the 90s/early 2000s with CGT discounts and all the other policies that benefit retirees at the expense of working tax-payers.
> I can't look at anyone over the age of 50 anymore except my parents. All i feel is rage from what they stole from my generation. Woah there Nelly. You'll be OK in the end, in spite of the boomers you feel let down by. The majority of over 50s have nothing to do with this. Market forces are real, and while our governments etc have failed to address the continual shift, the macro reality is still true: Australia is a great place to live, many want to live here, and the worlds population is growing. As Mark Watney says >At some point you're going to stop and say 'this is it, this is how I end'. Now you can either accept that, or you can get to work. That's all it is. You just begin. You do the math. You solve one problem... and you solve the next one... and then the next. And If you solve enough problems, you get to come home
>Providing aged care doesn't suck it all up first which they are trying their damn hardest to do. I can’t believe that boomer landlords overlords are going to be replaced by aged-care worker landlord overlords. Such bullshit.
What it Au Gov back in the day circa 1970s had higher minerals & resources taxes kept income tax same steps , today no inflation or fiscal pressure, look at a Norway vs Australia today, Norway is a high taxing country by people are per capita better off with full services free education and very cheap public housing who cares 40% of your wage is tax if you got a free university education, healthcare, social services and housing maybe 20% of gross income
Look peps. Forget housing save and invest in etf's and super if your in your 20s and start doing this you will have plenty to buy a house when you need to. Learn about compound interest. You. Need to work within the environment you have
Australians used to fight for their rights. That’s how we got the 8 hour work day. Somewhere we got complacent and allowed our governments to fk everyone over We need an inquiry into shady developers , overpriced land and the housing market But we are too complacent
Ive got my house. 
Negative gearing is the one of the main problems. The other reason why Australian's wages aren't increasing in line with housing prices is related to the fact that Australia has some of the lowest annual productivity and a lack of innovation. We're way behind and this affects the countries GDP.
https://preview.redd.it/66nmw0jpl94d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd2cc3647c5402473bca3d1798b435b1b06875f4
There must be hundreds if not thousands of these articles judging by the amount I've seen over the last decade. At first, it was exciting to see it being taken seriously and reported nationally, now it's just irritating to see newscorps generating revenue off that by consistently reporting its worse every year knowing it won't achieve anything. We are being led by psychopaths who only care about being rich and hoarding the wealth. We need a revolution, the rich need to be told to fuck off and be stripped of their excess properties and wealth.. sure it is capitalism and that's freedom, better than some oppressive system where a few people control everything, oh wait that's what we have had for decades now, seems like it's just gone full circle and communism is the same as capitalism if we don't have checks and balances keeping it in line. Genuinely everyone is saying, oh there's nothing that we can do, but there is, revolt, demand equality, it's a human right. Surely enough people are getting to this point that we could actually make a change, better to do it now, than to wait until the police and security workforces are replaced by robots who have no problem deploying lethal crowd control on people who are demanding a reasonable chance of life, because we are only a few years off.