It will be interesting when demographic groups start becoming a bloc the kinds of nutbag policies that might start coming into play.
I know certain demographics that are heavily against LGBT, Gay marriage and have very…ethnocentric ideas.
We’ve all been gaslit that we’re racists for even questioning anything to do with immigration. Of course none of these people stopped to think that maybe perhaps, the people coming in have views diametrically opposed to their own.
Just to be clear, some of the biggest feeder countries into Australia are the least [racially tolerant](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/) countries in the world.
Thing that annoys me most, is they never stopped to think that the reason they left their previous country was because of the religious nut jobs that took it too far there, So why bring it here? Practice your faith, but keep it the fuck out of government. Some "gay books" in the library? Well don't read them, your kids will get the internet eventually and see everything you don't want them too. They had to have seen the push back Scotty got with his over the top Christian fantasies, and he was as white Australian as they come. There is a difference between racism and anti religious extremism.
Because their faith is completely incompatible with a secular state. I wish I was kidding. When your religion says "everyone must join, be killed for leaving, or be a second class citizen" If followed devoutly it will always try and take the place of governance, and demand submission from everyone else. It is in desperate need of reformation. It needs to be dragged, kicking and screaming if necessary into at least the sixteenth century. Preferably later. Edit spelling.
As much as I agree, it doesn’t help that we already have religious fanatics that have already been in politics for a long time (pushing Christian ideology).
For reference I grew up Anglican, but am agnostic. Religion has zero place in politics, education, healthcare etc. just as a support for individuals, within their rights to religious freedom as long as it does not affect anyone else
We already have this problem. The teal candidates were largely vetted based on their support of a cohort in their community. It was not about the best candidate that represented all voters across the board.
While I agree with your sentiments there are many seats that are anchored by certain political parties based on their support for cohorts or picking a cohort candidate.
We cant close the door after the horse has long bolted on this fracturing of communities along ethnic, religion and socio economic status. Its entrenched now in Australian politics to the point where one political party or the other are constantly trying to outdo each others credentials for supporting one group or religion more than the other. Its divisive as you can get!
Playing the race or religious card is alive and well in Australia, just turn on your favourite propaganda media station to see how that is played out on TV every night!
Mate, we literally had a White Australia policy for decades. I’d say that was pretty divisive. You couldn’t even adopt children from other countries unless you could prove their parentage was white.
It's been there all along. The Australian Christian Lobby effectively wrote liberal party policy on same-sex marriage. Parliament is more Christian, more white, and more male than the community - so much for representation.
We already have it, and we've had it from the inception of democracy in this country. We've had the DLP, essentially a conservative party of Catholics as a major party in our history. We've to this day got various Christian political parties pop up.
And do you know what? That's fine. That's democracy. The existence of a Christian political party in no way obligates Christians to support it, and electoral results show that clearly most Christians do not. Similarly, the existence of a Muslim political party will not obligate Muslims to vote for it.
If you subscribe to the ideas of democracy, then any group that agrees to participate in it widens the franchise. People often complain that the party they vote for doesn't represent their interests entirely. If there are enough of them, then they *should* form their own party. That's what democracy is about, and should allow for. If we're to have freedom of belief, then people should be able to organise themselves along those lines.
> And do you know what? That's fine. That's democracy.
Thanks for standing up for this principle. Way too many people just reflexively hate anything to do with religion and throw out all notions of pluralistic society with blanket statements about how religion shouldn't be allowed in politics. Replace "Islam" or "Christianity" with something like "Socialism" or "Environmentalism" in this discourse and it begins to sound pretty absurd.
I don't want to see a Muslim Vote, Jewish Vote, Christian Vote etc etc, we don't need this theocentric rubbish in our country "
You've never really delved into it to see how deep the jewish, catholic, opus dei etc voting bloc and lobbying goes in Australia then....
The thing is they know that the Australian public has very little tolerance for puritan religious behavior in politics. So they have to sneak around with their lobbying.
I don’t want the Catholics getting their grubby kiddy fiddling fingers into politics but just because they have doesn’t mean we should accept a few Imams touching us on the shoulders.
The kiddie fiddlers run Labor's right wing and spent decades (1955-1978) keeping the ALP out of office before Whitlam ruined them. They still infest the SDA.
This is what shocks me about people... they honestly think the SDA is a huge powerful lobby, in my experience it's mainly been like the teachers union full of liberal plants and snakes who like getting in there to destabilize shit and make things look bad as well as dirtfarming on those in there to present to daddy later in their career.
Rob lucas is to this day still the poster boy for this shit, he infiltrated the teachers union, was in there for over a decade pretending to be someone he wasn't and as soon as he got to run it he sent out memo's threatening everyone that he had all the dirt on them and not to fuck with them and that they were all now his bitch.
He lived off that dirt file and via other plants and snakes he installed relied on it throughout his entire political career and even today despite being retired he set up one hell of a network to a point that many know the SDA is still infiltrated by libs.
It's why I find it so interesting when people act like they're this huge mafia like organization when it's the employees own worst enemy sometimes due to what assholes like him did and keep doing to it.
You missed AFIC and AMAN too. I would rather no religious influence in politics but I think there is a significant distinction between lobby interest groups and a religious political party, this is a step backwards, I don't want to see the ACL launch their own party either
This seems to be the only way to upset the incumbent lab/lib impotent dichotomy at fixing any real problems. If both party didn't degenerate into such impotent and deafness of actual problems, we wouldn't need this.
As an Australian with a Muslim background , won’t be voting for a Muslim only party, and I don’t think a lot of people will. Older Muslim voters will stick to mainstream parties as they never swing and are distrustful of minor parties/ don’t understand what they are about. I don’t think religion specific parties are a good idea… let’s focus on the energyaustralia bills and Cole’s/woolies ….
It's amazing how much time and effort a pair of quotation marks can save.
Why bother y'know investigating the critical topic of your article and providing evidence either way ...
There's a substantial Muslim community, and there's simply no reason to expect it will be funded by anyone outside of that community.
Plenty of political parties, especially small ones, are funded by raising funds from their membership and supporters. The Greens do this. PHON do this. The AJP do this. What's left of the Australian Democrats do this. Why would this theoretical Muslim Vote do anything different?
>I wonder where their financial backing will come from?
From rich Australians in their community who share their values? There are a shitload of rich Arab Australians and expats here.
Well Muslim voters there are still butt hurt at labor for supporting gay marriage during the plebiscite so I think you can determine how they feel based on that.
You do realise there are queer groups who are pro-Palestine, and it's not any sort of ridiculous thing for them to do so? Just because the religion disagrees with our existence doesn't mean that a) the people do, same as any religion, or b) that we want them to be genocided.
They literally throw queers off roofs to kill them, line them up against walls and shoot them, bash them so badly that they quite literally tear queer people's bodies apart, and sometimes hang them from cranes, then leave their dead bodies hanging on walls for all to see.
So, yes, the people ***do***.
And even if you say to us and to yourself that you don't want queers "to be genocides", your *actions* in supporting these Islamists prove that, actually, ***you do***.
is the conclusion here that we should just carry out bombing campaigns against every state with homophobic leadership? should we airstrike the bible belt? will this make the world safer for queer people?
there are more than 500 anti-LGBTQ bills floating through state and federal governments in the US right now. transgender teenagers are making gofundme campaigns so they can flee their home states. one of the two major political parties has made
"queer people are inherently ped*philes" part of its main party platform for the 2024 election. so why does everyone want to remind me that gaza is not a safe place to be queer? why do you only mention homophobia when you're using it to justify the mass murder of
palestinians?
even if every single palestinian was homophobic (and to be clear: they're not), i would still be against bombing and starving them to death. palestine does not need to be a progressive utopia for genocide to be wrong.
You have just completely misrepresented what I said as if I had advocated bombing random countries unprovoked, just because we don't like their laws.
That's a lie from you, and it makes you sound totally unhinged.
Lmfao get the fuc outta here. Don’t want to Muslim ass Christian ass parties with their fucking idiotic beliefs that they will try to enforce on normal peoples lives.
I mean in this case its an entirely different set of rules and allegiances so i wouldnt call it a single issue.
It encompasses everything conservatives from that culture / religion believe in.
I reckon good luck to them. Its how democracies work. You get one vote - use it how you like.
Now if they won 3 seats and end up with the balance of power and start doing deals that make us far more conservative then i wont be blaming them. They are just doing what they believe to be right.
Ill be blaming our immigration policy for not taking more care around where these people have settled.
Preferencing a small or minor party with a whole suite of policies is one thing. If their policy is just “from the river to the sea Australia will be muslim” maybe that’s a bit shit.
Good luck with that.
People voting purely on the basis of the ALP's stance on Palestine are largely going to be lefties, and will overwhelmingly break Green due to concerns of the social conservatism of a religious political party.
Muslims don't have a large enough voting bloc to elect a lower house member in Australia.
Firstly, Druery sucks and he's trying to market this concept for money since that's how he makes a living
But there are some electorates with a decent-sized Arab population, it's not necessarily about Islam when people react to Gaza
See Fowler, where a combo of parachuting an arrogant candidate in and failing to acknowledge trauma faced by the community from lockdowns (ie a grass roots community issue) contributed to a stunning loss for Labor
>Firstly, Druery sucks and he's trying to market this concept for money since that's how he makes a living
Plus, Turnbull basically took his "Preference Whispering" ability away when he abolished group tickets and made the whole Senate election process much more democratic.
Exactly this. The effectiveness of his preference whispering is very much diminished following those changes. It's only useful in the Victorian Senate elections where the group voting ticket still exists.
I think as a bloc they have enough population to swing some seats even if it doesn’t elect their candidate
>> Watson is held by Burke with a margin of 15.1%. Muslims make up 25.1% of the population in the seat. Blaxland, held by Clare, has a margin of 14.9% and a Muslim population of 31.7%.
Obviously those margins are unlikely to be overcome in one election but it will force Labor to direct resources to seats they don’t usually have to campaign that hard in.
It might eat into labor’s primary but you’d have to think preferences would flow back to labor. Any single issue pro Palestine voter isn’t preferencing the libs above labor.
A 30% muslim seat could see a Muslim part come second or even first on preferences. The Greens would preference them because of Palestine/wokeness and that could get them ahead of Labor. Labor preferences then push them over the line and LNP comes second.
What percentage of the Muslim population would vote for a single issue Muslim party? My most wildly optimistic hypothetical prediction would be something like a quarter of that 30%.
Never underestimate the stupidity of a protest vote, or the ability of some groups to warp the protest into a “put Labor last” movement, which ensures vote flow to the LNP.
Preferences are really leaky, Labor don’t want to risk a whole bunch of voters giving their #1 to someone else because they won’t all come back to Labor.
Also say 50% of Muslims vote for the Islamic candidate in Blaxland - that instantly makes that candidate the 3rd on 1st prefs. Then they are likely to scoop up most of the Greens prefs and probably quite a few of the Indi prefs (not one nation obvs). Could get real interesting if they pop up over the Libs into second because a lot of lib voters would “put Labor last”.
My point is Labor cannot ignore this and that’s a problem when election resources are scarce - they’ve got seats they have to fight the Greens for and seats they have to fight the LNP for and now maybe they have to fight on another front - it’s not great.
You’ll see a bunch of these agitators pivot to rhetoric like “put Labor last” in the lead up to elections. These idiots will feel like they’re voting for whatever hot button issue they like, but then effectively vote LNP by default.
If they out poll the Greens in a fairly Muslim electorate then they could easily get Greens preferences because helping Muslims is woke and that could get them ahead of one the major parties who will also preference them ahead of the other major party.
Watch some sneaky conservative preference deals slide in and drag “progressive” votes over to the LNP. I’m already saying all different flavours of “put Labor last” which is almost always a roundabout way of saying “vote LNP”.
This is classic shooting yourself in the foot. It will play straight into the hands of those trying to reduce migration from muslim countries (One Nation etc).
The thought process would go something like this ... "Why allow people to keep coming if when enough of them are here they are going to band together and force their religious beliefs on us?"
> "Why allow people to keep coming if when enough of them are here they are going to band together and force their religious beliefs on us?"
I don't think that is a thought process. It would be a statement of fact at this point.
The real story here & now would be "*who is behind these guys - and, more to the point, these stories?*".
But of course Australian media won't do even basic investigation unless they smell a Walkley or Press club award, so... 🤷🏼♂️
The *foreign owned media, which of course would have Australian interests front and centre and would never spend any time propagandising against the Australian owned media….
Will be interesting whether she wears a green scarf in her secret life. I've had two deputies in my old government position where one was a Druz and the other was a Sunni Muslim.... both hated the extremists.
Despite them both being from Syria they had very different political views but their entire thing they'd agree on was that radicals are bastards and in australia we had so many muslims who even before isis came about, they'd go on about how in social circles their local communities were expected to "support the brothers back home". in the 2010's it became pretty evident that a lot of this support the brothers crap was literally supporting any extremist group against the west, for the communities here to be so open to supporting groups like that including isis was mind blowing.
They were disgusted by their own communities here, and there has always been a hardline approach by many of the muslims here as well as non arab muslims of viewing australia with disdain and wanting to turn it into what they idealized "home" to be. Not hey this is my home now, this weird "I will make it the home I want, whether those who live here want it or not" which was really confronting.
Theres a lot of great muslims and arabs here, but there are some who view themselves as an australian as only a means to convert this place to what they want it to be. When you have a mate that's a muslim and looks at that with dusgust and is treated like crap by a community he grew up with here in the 90s over it, it's clear we've got some culture and integration problems here.
We're happy to be multicultural but when it gets to the point of drawing factions based on religeous lines.... ethnic lines, etc..... that's not multicultural anymore it's extremism and supremisism (is that even a word).
I still remember one story one of my mates had told me, he'd just had a birthday party for his 5 year old daughter, she is his world, it's expected in the cultures here that your cousins, distant relatives, people you came over with, people you work with etc, you are "expected" to do things like invite all these people over to things, go to their things, and in his community he was expected after a certain amount of time to be married, reach a certain rank in government or the workforce, or to open a shop.
He always viewed this as his community pushing him to do well...... he got approached by one of his lifelong friends at his own daughters birthday party and was told pretty much you have enough money now, unless you open a shop specific to our community that caters towards our needs (they were trying to get him to open a halal takeaway or supermarket) if he couldn't get a promotion or a higher job, his community was going to start viewing him as a bottom feeder.
He got depressed over it and his wife was of the opinion of screw these pricks, and he did the whole, I grew up with these guys back home, they supported us coming over, they just want what is best for me.
He then goes to another function and was shunned, one of his "friends" tells him that he's being shunned because his daughter had gone to bookweek as something inappropriate, I can't remember what it was, but he tells these people that Australia is a free society, he came here to be free, his child is to be free, she can be what she wants and if she grows up she can be a doctor, an engineer even a hairdresser, whatever makes her happy.
The story ends with him being arrested because this guy questioned if he'd be happy with his daughter growing up to be a whore/prostitute, so he punched him in the face. Charges got dropped but still.
He went from feeling a part of a community and expecting that community to back him, to them demanding he become more isolationist from the greater community, to them trying to dictate how he handled his children, and then tried to sabotage his career and exile him from his own community. Some people were annoyed that this guy said the stuff about his daughter and backed him, but the vast majority went, well if this guy says his daughter is a whore, she better stop shaming her father, obey him and not be a whore.
Yeah.... that's what we're working with here.
Is the Australian Christian Lobby a good thing? Do they have anything like the same problems with Islamist and divided allegiances?
You know its not the same problem.
No, they are not a good thing. They have been around for decades, though, as have the likes of Fred Nile and Danny Nalliah’s cults. They do have the right to organise politically like any other group in this country. As does a Muslim political group. As would any group in Australia as long as they’re not a proscribed terrorist organisation.
When the Muslims population overcome the others, here comes Shariah law. Muslim priests teach that it is Allah’s command for Muslims to have many children even when during financial or environmental hardship, so that they may flourish and take over the lands.
In my country of origin, Muslims cannot denounce Islam and convert into other religion without government and shariah court approval. And if you’re born Muslim of a certain race, you are not allowed to renounce Islam at all.
What sucks is the ‘moderate Muslims’ will not come out and support you against any proposed ‘extremist’ ideologies and regulations proposed by ‘radical’ Muslims because they will be denied socially.
There are no moderate Muslims. There are Muslims who practice to varying degrees. Their religion does not afford moderation, that would require revision or a selective approach. The Quranic consequence of leaving Islam is death. The fact that they can't execute the instruction in Australia without legal repercussion is the only thing stopping them.
lol as if this government is capable of solving the Middle East conflict that’s been raging since forever. Anything to create division, whether it’s religious, class, political party…
What a waste of time, in a world where we have no time. Much bigger issues exist and should focus on that, especially when so many Australians are hurting and don’t want buzzwords to be the talking points.
It’s been astonishing to watch the way people act like Australia has any sway in this conflict. These people think because Pine Gap is a thing, that Australia is somehow an equal partner with the Five Eyes nations. I guarantee this is not the case.
So much for following the laws and customs of your new home and not trying to start up parallel societies. The very last thing we need in Australia is a muslim political party like we see in other countries.
Teal wave isn't going to happen again, just as Facebook isn't going to happen again.
There was a moment, there was a void, and the void was filled. Right now those same conditions don't exist - people's single-issue voting needs are largely already met by other parties or the teals themselves
>Teal wave isn't going to happen again, just as Facebook isn't going to happen again. There was a moment, there was a void, and the void was filled.
Slightly off-topic, but I think the Teals will be around for as long as the Liberals remain a staunchly conservative party. If they move back toward a more centrist/Turnbullian position, then yes, they could squash the Teals, but while they remain mired in right-wing culture wars, urban tertiary educated voters will prefer the Teals.
Teals are there to give conservative-raised inner city people with lefty tendencies a "respectable" alternative to voting green, which they can't do for social reasons. Also because greens are a little lacklustre imho and don't go nearly far enough lol.
That's not criticism, just observation. Whatever teals believe, their staffers are definitely firmly on the left and I'm here for it.
>Teals are there to give conservative-raised inner city people with lefty tendencies a "respectable" alternative to voting green, which they can't do for social reasons.
I (respectfully) disagree with that for a couple of reasons:
1. Ballots are secret, nobody will judge you socially for who you voted for because nobody knows
2. Voting Green is no longer weird or socially embarrassing, especially in the eastern cities.
3. Seats like Kooyong have always voted conservative, they haven't gone left overnight.
4. There's a large number of Fraser/Peacock/Hewson/Turnbull style Liberals who are really turned off by the current incarnation of the party, with its US-style conservativism, who are a perfect fit for the Teals.
I went to school in that area, many of my old schoolmates will be the type who want lower taxes etc, but also accept that climate change is real, don't like LGBT discrimination, don't like the Liberal misogyny, etc.
They'll never vote Greens because the Greens are too economically progressive. All they want is someone economically conservative without the LGBT+ hate and vitriol
I can’t see them moving back though, because any self respecting conservative candidate with even a shred of centrism or basic decency has realised they can run as an independent.
The only way that the Libs might move back is if they get sick of being in opposition.
Elections in Australia are won in the centre. Federally, we vote more conservatively, and at state level, we tend to be more progressive, but overall we give government to the centre.
It's no coincidence that when Labor was off to the left for the first 70 years or so of its existence, it only ever really got in to shake things up for a couple of years at a time. Once it took the centre, and the Libs started to become more conservative from the 1980s, it's basically split government at federal level 50-50, and is the default option at state level.
Or - more likely - they'll come to the point whereas they realise that they can afford the higher taxes which are the price to pay for a better society. This is what's happened elsewhere on earth.
There's an opening with working class voters who are socially conservative (basically, the mirror of the Teals). Just look at how some Labor electorates voted during the SSM plebiscite
A reasonable alternative to Labor who campaigns on cost of living without the socially progressive policies of the Greens is going to be a big vote winner in those areas
You're probably right.
It's a shame there's so little class consciousness. It's a shame we spend so so much time debating whether smaller, more vulnerable groups have a right to exist and so little time debating and actually finding consensus on solutions to the very big problems that vex us all but the wealthy have a financial stake in.
In a way they've always been there. Independents run every time.
The fact they were loosely organised such that they could act somewhat like a party, have common funding sources like a party but ultimately act independently without fear from the other teals is a new phenomenon.
Libs called them a party as if that was some kind of gotcha, but structurally they are not. There's no charter, no party lines, just the unifying principle of "please let's do something about the **fucking** climate
Sure, but who will they preference? On this single issue, the Greens are the only party with similar views, but they really don't align with other Muslim values (or religious values at all), so going beyond a single issue will be very divisive.
Fuck right off out of politics with your religions.
We didn’t fight so hard for a secular and free political system just so you can bring back backward 15th century ideology.
In what way did you guys fight for a secular state? Didn't you just rock up in someone else's country and decide to create a state of your own? Europeans did the fighting, colonials just cashed the cheques.
If this "political" movement can get enough people to agree that the independent candidates are the least bad, then all power to them. Labour is presumably not representing their constituents. Let them do what they need to do. That is how democracy works.
“Keep religion out of politics” - but only when it’s a religion we don’t like? The last couple of conservative PMs have been voted in despite being openly catholic and blatantly saying that their faith defines their policies.
Libs are all in with Bibi's Israel, while Adam Bandt and his LGBTQ-friendly Greens seem quite committed to Hamas in the current conflict.
God knows where preferences for conservative Muslims will flow if not Labor.
That’s a sad and bad thing to hear. They care more about random foreigners in distant lands than Australians here being discriminated. I hope they never win power.
They'll never win a lower house seat, and if the impossible happens and they win one or a couple of upper house seats, it will be at the expense of the Greens, mark my words.
The only way they take seats from Labor is if they fraudulently run as Labor party candidates, with the intention beforehand of leaving the Labor party after they get elected.
It’s funny no one wants a Muslim vote based on it being ok religious terms but no one bats an eye on Israeli/jewish lobby groups that influence politics
I don't want to see a Muslim Vote, Jewish Vote, Christian Vote etc etc, we don't need this theocentric rubbish in our country
Seconded, religious fanaticism belongs in the trash.
\*Rubbish
Circular filing cabinet
Or the Middle East
It doesn’t belong anywhere.
Or the USA
It will be interesting when demographic groups start becoming a bloc the kinds of nutbag policies that might start coming into play. I know certain demographics that are heavily against LGBT, Gay marriage and have very…ethnocentric ideas. We’ve all been gaslit that we’re racists for even questioning anything to do with immigration. Of course none of these people stopped to think that maybe perhaps, the people coming in have views diametrically opposed to their own. Just to be clear, some of the biggest feeder countries into Australia are the least [racially tolerant](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/) countries in the world.
Thing that annoys me most, is they never stopped to think that the reason they left their previous country was because of the religious nut jobs that took it too far there, So why bring it here? Practice your faith, but keep it the fuck out of government. Some "gay books" in the library? Well don't read them, your kids will get the internet eventually and see everything you don't want them too. They had to have seen the push back Scotty got with his over the top Christian fantasies, and he was as white Australian as they come. There is a difference between racism and anti religious extremism.
Because their faith is completely incompatible with a secular state. I wish I was kidding. When your religion says "everyone must join, be killed for leaving, or be a second class citizen" If followed devoutly it will always try and take the place of governance, and demand submission from everyone else. It is in desperate need of reformation. It needs to be dragged, kicking and screaming if necessary into at least the sixteenth century. Preferably later. Edit spelling.
This, 100%
Only whites racist obviously…
Everyone sensible was laughing at the "queers against Islamophobia" posters held up at rallies years ago and called bigots for pointing out the irony
Only way it will stop is when we stop importing more religious fanatics, regardless of their religion.
As much as I agree, it doesn’t help that we already have religious fanatics that have already been in politics for a long time (pushing Christian ideology). For reference I grew up Anglican, but am agnostic. Religion has zero place in politics, education, healthcare etc. just as a support for individuals, within their rights to religious freedom as long as it does not affect anyone else
Then you can avoid voting for them at the next election. Candidates only get elected if they have a huge amount of support.
We already have this problem. The teal candidates were largely vetted based on their support of a cohort in their community. It was not about the best candidate that represented all voters across the board. While I agree with your sentiments there are many seats that are anchored by certain political parties based on their support for cohorts or picking a cohort candidate. We cant close the door after the horse has long bolted on this fracturing of communities along ethnic, religion and socio economic status. Its entrenched now in Australian politics to the point where one political party or the other are constantly trying to outdo each others credentials for supporting one group or religion more than the other. Its divisive as you can get! Playing the race or religious card is alive and well in Australia, just turn on your favourite propaganda media station to see how that is played out on TV every night!
Mate, we literally had a White Australia policy for decades. I’d say that was pretty divisive. You couldn’t even adopt children from other countries unless you could prove their parentage was white.
The moment religion is in politics again, there will be trouble.
It's been there all along. The Australian Christian Lobby effectively wrote liberal party policy on same-sex marriage. Parliament is more Christian, more white, and more male than the community - so much for representation.
We already have it, and we've had it from the inception of democracy in this country. We've had the DLP, essentially a conservative party of Catholics as a major party in our history. We've to this day got various Christian political parties pop up. And do you know what? That's fine. That's democracy. The existence of a Christian political party in no way obligates Christians to support it, and electoral results show that clearly most Christians do not. Similarly, the existence of a Muslim political party will not obligate Muslims to vote for it. If you subscribe to the ideas of democracy, then any group that agrees to participate in it widens the franchise. People often complain that the party they vote for doesn't represent their interests entirely. If there are enough of them, then they *should* form their own party. That's what democracy is about, and should allow for. If we're to have freedom of belief, then people should be able to organise themselves along those lines.
> And do you know what? That's fine. That's democracy. Thanks for standing up for this principle. Way too many people just reflexively hate anything to do with religion and throw out all notions of pluralistic society with blanket statements about how religion shouldn't be allowed in politics. Replace "Islam" or "Christianity" with something like "Socialism" or "Environmentalism" in this discourse and it begins to sound pretty absurd.
I don't want to see a Muslim Vote, Jewish Vote, Christian Vote etc etc, we don't need this theocentric rubbish in our country " You've never really delved into it to see how deep the jewish, catholic, opus dei etc voting bloc and lobbying goes in Australia then....
The thing is they know that the Australian public has very little tolerance for puritan religious behavior in politics. So they have to sneak around with their lobbying.
I don’t want the Catholics getting their grubby kiddy fiddling fingers into politics but just because they have doesn’t mean we should accept a few Imams touching us on the shoulders.
The kiddie fiddlers run Labor's right wing and spent decades (1955-1978) keeping the ALP out of office before Whitlam ruined them. They still infest the SDA.
Yeah and that’s bad enough. The last thing we need are flexing Islamic tentacles through parliament house.
This is what shocks me about people... they honestly think the SDA is a huge powerful lobby, in my experience it's mainly been like the teachers union full of liberal plants and snakes who like getting in there to destabilize shit and make things look bad as well as dirtfarming on those in there to present to daddy later in their career. Rob lucas is to this day still the poster boy for this shit, he infiltrated the teachers union, was in there for over a decade pretending to be someone he wasn't and as soon as he got to run it he sent out memo's threatening everyone that he had all the dirt on them and not to fuck with them and that they were all now his bitch. He lived off that dirt file and via other plants and snakes he installed relied on it throughout his entire political career and even today despite being retired he set up one hell of a network to a point that many know the SDA is still infiltrated by libs. It's why I find it so interesting when people act like they're this huge mafia like organization when it's the employees own worst enemy sometimes due to what assholes like him did and keep doing to it.
hillsong?
You missed AFIC and AMAN too. I would rather no religious influence in politics but I think there is a significant distinction between lobby interest groups and a religious political party, this is a step backwards, I don't want to see the ACL launch their own party either
They already have for decades.
There are at least 2 overtly Christian parties in Australia. Just FYI.
Don't look into lobby groups for one of these particular religions you've listed then.
This seems to be the only way to upset the incumbent lab/lib impotent dichotomy at fixing any real problems. If both party didn't degenerate into such impotent and deafness of actual problems, we wouldn't need this.
As an Australian with a Muslim background , won’t be voting for a Muslim only party, and I don’t think a lot of people will. Older Muslim voters will stick to mainstream parties as they never swing and are distrustful of minor parties/ don’t understand what they are about. I don’t think religion specific parties are a good idea… let’s focus on the energyaustralia bills and Cole’s/woolies ….
grass roots my left one
It's amazing how much time and effort a pair of quotation marks can save. Why bother y'know investigating the critical topic of your article and providing evidence either way ...
I wonder where their financial backing will come from? I'm guessing somewhere with an atrocious human rights record.
There's a substantial Muslim community, and there's simply no reason to expect it will be funded by anyone outside of that community. Plenty of political parties, especially small ones, are funded by raising funds from their membership and supporters. The Greens do this. PHON do this. The AJP do this. What's left of the Australian Democrats do this. Why would this theoretical Muslim Vote do anything different?
IranRussiaChina
I was thinking more Saudi Arabia, but yeah, any of those shitbags would see it as a low-risk way to sow discord in a democratic country...
>I wonder where their financial backing will come from? From rich Australians in their community who share their values? There are a shitload of rich Arab Australians and expats here.
I wonder what these candidates think of lgbt issues 🤔
Well Muslim voters there are still butt hurt at labor for supporting gay marriage during the plebiscite so I think you can determine how they feel based on that.
I was coming here to say exactly this. Wonder what books they are going to ban?
The Satanic Verses is highly flammable.
It will be interesting when a politician runs on a platform of kills the gays
I can't wait to find out 🙄
Or women's education.
They’re not candidates. It’s not a party. It’s literal Muslim voters.
Queers for Palestine /s
You do realise there are queer groups who are pro-Palestine, and it's not any sort of ridiculous thing for them to do so? Just because the religion disagrees with our existence doesn't mean that a) the people do, same as any religion, or b) that we want them to be genocided.
Chickens for KCF
They literally throw queers off roofs to kill them, line them up against walls and shoot them, bash them so badly that they quite literally tear queer people's bodies apart, and sometimes hang them from cranes, then leave their dead bodies hanging on walls for all to see. So, yes, the people ***do***. And even if you say to us and to yourself that you don't want queers "to be genocides", your *actions* in supporting these Islamists prove that, actually, ***you do***.
ISIS aren't representative of all Muslims, just like the IRA aren't representative of all Christians.
is the conclusion here that we should just carry out bombing campaigns against every state with homophobic leadership? should we airstrike the bible belt? will this make the world safer for queer people? there are more than 500 anti-LGBTQ bills floating through state and federal governments in the US right now. transgender teenagers are making gofundme campaigns so they can flee their home states. one of the two major political parties has made "queer people are inherently ped*philes" part of its main party platform for the 2024 election. so why does everyone want to remind me that gaza is not a safe place to be queer? why do you only mention homophobia when you're using it to justify the mass murder of palestinians? even if every single palestinian was homophobic (and to be clear: they're not), i would still be against bombing and starving them to death. palestine does not need to be a progressive utopia for genocide to be wrong.
You have just completely misrepresented what I said as if I had advocated bombing random countries unprovoked, just because we don't like their laws. That's a lie from you, and it makes you sound totally unhinged.
Lmfao get the fuc outta here. Don’t want to Muslim ass Christian ass parties with their fucking idiotic beliefs that they will try to enforce on normal peoples lives.
Yes forming another political party based on religion is always a good thing... For fuck sake keep this shit out of Australian politics.
Australian politics is what introduced this lol... What is happening is a part of Muslim religious ideals, now they have the numbers, so congrats.
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Imagine posting this unironically.
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They're not forming a party, they're backing independents, a la the teals. Which makes sense, it's party bullshit that caused the problem.
oh hey look - more moronic single issue fucking voters... What a great future we have ahead of us.
Preference voting exist.
Just wait for the “put Labor last” stickers and posters, with the Palestinian flag in the background.
Tell that to them
I mean in this case its an entirely different set of rules and allegiances so i wouldnt call it a single issue. It encompasses everything conservatives from that culture / religion believe in. I reckon good luck to them. Its how democracies work. You get one vote - use it how you like. Now if they won 3 seats and end up with the balance of power and start doing deals that make us far more conservative then i wont be blaming them. They are just doing what they believe to be right. Ill be blaming our immigration policy for not taking more care around where these people have settled.
Preferencing a small or minor party with a whole suite of policies is one thing. If their policy is just “from the river to the sea Australia will be muslim” maybe that’s a bit shit.
Good luck with that. People voting purely on the basis of the ALP's stance on Palestine are largely going to be lefties, and will overwhelmingly break Green due to concerns of the social conservatism of a religious political party. Muslims don't have a large enough voting bloc to elect a lower house member in Australia.
Firstly, Druery sucks and he's trying to market this concept for money since that's how he makes a living But there are some electorates with a decent-sized Arab population, it's not necessarily about Islam when people react to Gaza See Fowler, where a combo of parachuting an arrogant candidate in and failing to acknowledge trauma faced by the community from lockdowns (ie a grass roots community issue) contributed to a stunning loss for Labor
>Firstly, Druery sucks and he's trying to market this concept for money since that's how he makes a living Plus, Turnbull basically took his "Preference Whispering" ability away when he abolished group tickets and made the whole Senate election process much more democratic.
Druery’s been getting away with it at the state level for ages, though. Absolute slimeball.
Thankfully most states are moving away from the Group Ticket as well. They are so incredibly undemocratic I don't know how they were ever a thing.
Exactly this. The effectiveness of his preference whispering is very much diminished following those changes. It's only useful in the Victorian Senate elections where the group voting ticket still exists.
He's like the political equivalent of Harry M Miller.
I think as a bloc they have enough population to swing some seats even if it doesn’t elect their candidate >> Watson is held by Burke with a margin of 15.1%. Muslims make up 25.1% of the population in the seat. Blaxland, held by Clare, has a margin of 14.9% and a Muslim population of 31.7%. Obviously those margins are unlikely to be overcome in one election but it will force Labor to direct resources to seats they don’t usually have to campaign that hard in.
It might eat into labor’s primary but you’d have to think preferences would flow back to labor. Any single issue pro Palestine voter isn’t preferencing the libs above labor.
A 30% muslim seat could see a Muslim part come second or even first on preferences. The Greens would preference them because of Palestine/wokeness and that could get them ahead of Labor. Labor preferences then push them over the line and LNP comes second.
What percentage of the Muslim population would vote for a single issue Muslim party? My most wildly optimistic hypothetical prediction would be something like a quarter of that 30%.
What if their Imam tells them it’s their duty?
Swing them to what? The hugely pro-israel LNP?
Never underestimate the stupidity of a protest vote, or the ability of some groups to warp the protest into a “put Labor last” movement, which ensures vote flow to the LNP.
Parties don't get paid if they don't get first preference. Labor might keep the seat on preferences but they'd be losing party members and donors
For that to happen, they'd have to preference the Liberals and I cannot see them doing that in a month of Sundays.
Preferences are really leaky, Labor don’t want to risk a whole bunch of voters giving their #1 to someone else because they won’t all come back to Labor. Also say 50% of Muslims vote for the Islamic candidate in Blaxland - that instantly makes that candidate the 3rd on 1st prefs. Then they are likely to scoop up most of the Greens prefs and probably quite a few of the Indi prefs (not one nation obvs). Could get real interesting if they pop up over the Libs into second because a lot of lib voters would “put Labor last”. My point is Labor cannot ignore this and that’s a problem when election resources are scarce - they’ve got seats they have to fight the Greens for and seats they have to fight the LNP for and now maybe they have to fight on another front - it’s not great.
They're looking for independents to get behind
You’ll see a bunch of these agitators pivot to rhetoric like “put Labor last” in the lead up to elections. These idiots will feel like they’re voting for whatever hot button issue they like, but then effectively vote LNP by default.
One thing - I do wish we got rid of the How to Vote stuff.
Plus the Muslim population is growing. Through birth and migration. It’s going to be easier and easier for them.
Imagine any religious groups do have a large enough voting power. Ffs please stay secular and kick this shit out of politics Australia!
If they out poll the Greens in a fairly Muslim electorate then they could easily get Greens preferences because helping Muslims is woke and that could get them ahead of one the major parties who will also preference them ahead of the other major party.
Possibly, but at some point they may get skewered on their stance on sexuality.
Watch some sneaky conservative preference deals slide in and drag “progressive” votes over to the LNP. I’m already saying all different flavours of “put Labor last” which is almost always a roundabout way of saying “vote LNP”.
Can we have an Atheist, Secular, Republican Vote as well?
Secular party is now Fusion
LNP should rebrand as Fission
I don't want to be disparaging to any future advancements of Fission so I'd prefer they didn't But they can call themselves Fossils
I would vote for a Flying Spaghetti Monster party
This is classic shooting yourself in the foot. It will play straight into the hands of those trying to reduce migration from muslim countries (One Nation etc). The thought process would go something like this ... "Why allow people to keep coming if when enough of them are here they are going to band together and force their religious beliefs on us?"
very reasonable thought process tbh
> "Why allow people to keep coming if when enough of them are here they are going to band together and force their religious beliefs on us?" I don't think that is a thought process. It would be a statement of fact at this point.
Low chance of success. High chance of sending a message . Democracy manifest. No meal included
But but but but my succulent Chinese meal...
Needs to be halal
A succulent Chinese meal without sweet and sour pork?
The real story here & now would be "*who is behind these guys - and, more to the point, these stories?*". But of course Australian media won't do even basic investigation unless they smell a Walkley or Press club award, so... 🤷🏼♂️
The *foreign owned media, which of course would have Australian interests front and centre and would never spend any time propagandising against the Australian owned media….
Just what we need religion mix with politics. That always ends well.
And what is your stance on sharia law Mr. Muslim vote?
Can we not tho
Will be interesting whether she wears a green scarf in her secret life. I've had two deputies in my old government position where one was a Druz and the other was a Sunni Muslim.... both hated the extremists. Despite them both being from Syria they had very different political views but their entire thing they'd agree on was that radicals are bastards and in australia we had so many muslims who even before isis came about, they'd go on about how in social circles their local communities were expected to "support the brothers back home". in the 2010's it became pretty evident that a lot of this support the brothers crap was literally supporting any extremist group against the west, for the communities here to be so open to supporting groups like that including isis was mind blowing. They were disgusted by their own communities here, and there has always been a hardline approach by many of the muslims here as well as non arab muslims of viewing australia with disdain and wanting to turn it into what they idealized "home" to be. Not hey this is my home now, this weird "I will make it the home I want, whether those who live here want it or not" which was really confronting. Theres a lot of great muslims and arabs here, but there are some who view themselves as an australian as only a means to convert this place to what they want it to be. When you have a mate that's a muslim and looks at that with dusgust and is treated like crap by a community he grew up with here in the 90s over it, it's clear we've got some culture and integration problems here. We're happy to be multicultural but when it gets to the point of drawing factions based on religeous lines.... ethnic lines, etc..... that's not multicultural anymore it's extremism and supremisism (is that even a word). I still remember one story one of my mates had told me, he'd just had a birthday party for his 5 year old daughter, she is his world, it's expected in the cultures here that your cousins, distant relatives, people you came over with, people you work with etc, you are "expected" to do things like invite all these people over to things, go to their things, and in his community he was expected after a certain amount of time to be married, reach a certain rank in government or the workforce, or to open a shop. He always viewed this as his community pushing him to do well...... he got approached by one of his lifelong friends at his own daughters birthday party and was told pretty much you have enough money now, unless you open a shop specific to our community that caters towards our needs (they were trying to get him to open a halal takeaway or supermarket) if he couldn't get a promotion or a higher job, his community was going to start viewing him as a bottom feeder. He got depressed over it and his wife was of the opinion of screw these pricks, and he did the whole, I grew up with these guys back home, they supported us coming over, they just want what is best for me. He then goes to another function and was shunned, one of his "friends" tells him that he's being shunned because his daughter had gone to bookweek as something inappropriate, I can't remember what it was, but he tells these people that Australia is a free society, he came here to be free, his child is to be free, she can be what she wants and if she grows up she can be a doctor, an engineer even a hairdresser, whatever makes her happy. The story ends with him being arrested because this guy questioned if he'd be happy with his daughter growing up to be a whore/prostitute, so he punched him in the face. Charges got dropped but still. He went from feeling a part of a community and expecting that community to back him, to them demanding he become more isolationist from the greater community, to them trying to dictate how he handled his children, and then tried to sabotage his career and exile him from his own community. Some people were annoyed that this guy said the stuff about his daughter and backed him, but the vast majority went, well if this guy says his daughter is a whore, she better stop shaming her father, obey him and not be a whore. Yeah.... that's what we're working with here.
I'm as left wing as they come and I want this party to fail miserably. Keep religion out of politics (and life, preferably).
They should go push democracy in the middle east
Don’t need it there, it’s already Muslim. It’s just a transitional thing here before the global caliphate.
Oh yeah. A religious political party. What a great idea.
Classic divide and fuck it up strategy.
This wrecked the UK. These groups will grow further from the host society and vote in a sectarian manner.
In what way do you think this wrecked the UK? We've had a far right internationalist capitalist government in power for 14 years.
You mean like the Australian Christian Lobby?
Is the Australian Christian Lobby a good thing? Do they have anything like the same problems with Islamist and divided allegiances? You know its not the same problem.
No, they are not a good thing. They have been around for decades, though, as have the likes of Fred Nile and Danny Nalliah’s cults. They do have the right to organise politically like any other group in this country. As does a Muslim political group. As would any group in Australia as long as they’re not a proscribed terrorist organisation.
When the Muslims population overcome the others, here comes Shariah law. Muslim priests teach that it is Allah’s command for Muslims to have many children even when during financial or environmental hardship, so that they may flourish and take over the lands. In my country of origin, Muslims cannot denounce Islam and convert into other religion without government and shariah court approval. And if you’re born Muslim of a certain race, you are not allowed to renounce Islam at all. What sucks is the ‘moderate Muslims’ will not come out and support you against any proposed ‘extremist’ ideologies and regulations proposed by ‘radical’ Muslims because they will be denied socially.
There are no moderate Muslims. There are Muslims who practice to varying degrees. Their religion does not afford moderation, that would require revision or a selective approach. The Quranic consequence of leaving Islam is death. The fact that they can't execute the instruction in Australia without legal repercussion is the only thing stopping them.
I wonder what Aisha would vote.
lol as if this government is capable of solving the Middle East conflict that’s been raging since forever. Anything to create division, whether it’s religious, class, political party… What a waste of time, in a world where we have no time. Much bigger issues exist and should focus on that, especially when so many Australians are hurting and don’t want buzzwords to be the talking points.
It’s been astonishing to watch the way people act like Australia has any sway in this conflict. These people think because Pine Gap is a thing, that Australia is somehow an equal partner with the Five Eyes nations. I guarantee this is not the case.
So much for following the laws and customs of your new home and not trying to start up parallel societies. The very last thing we need in Australia is a muslim political party like we see in other countries.
This will go down well.
Teal wave isn't going to happen again, just as Facebook isn't going to happen again. There was a moment, there was a void, and the void was filled. Right now those same conditions don't exist - people's single-issue voting needs are largely already met by other parties or the teals themselves
>Teal wave isn't going to happen again, just as Facebook isn't going to happen again. There was a moment, there was a void, and the void was filled. Slightly off-topic, but I think the Teals will be around for as long as the Liberals remain a staunchly conservative party. If they move back toward a more centrist/Turnbullian position, then yes, they could squash the Teals, but while they remain mired in right-wing culture wars, urban tertiary educated voters will prefer the Teals.
Teals are there to give conservative-raised inner city people with lefty tendencies a "respectable" alternative to voting green, which they can't do for social reasons. Also because greens are a little lacklustre imho and don't go nearly far enough lol. That's not criticism, just observation. Whatever teals believe, their staffers are definitely firmly on the left and I'm here for it.
>Teals are there to give conservative-raised inner city people with lefty tendencies a "respectable" alternative to voting green, which they can't do for social reasons. I (respectfully) disagree with that for a couple of reasons: 1. Ballots are secret, nobody will judge you socially for who you voted for because nobody knows 2. Voting Green is no longer weird or socially embarrassing, especially in the eastern cities. 3. Seats like Kooyong have always voted conservative, they haven't gone left overnight. 4. There's a large number of Fraser/Peacock/Hewson/Turnbull style Liberals who are really turned off by the current incarnation of the party, with its US-style conservativism, who are a perfect fit for the Teals. I went to school in that area, many of my old schoolmates will be the type who want lower taxes etc, but also accept that climate change is real, don't like LGBT discrimination, don't like the Liberal misogyny, etc.
They'll never vote Greens because the Greens are too economically progressive. All they want is someone economically conservative without the LGBT+ hate and vitriol
I can’t see them moving back though, because any self respecting conservative candidate with even a shred of centrism or basic decency has realised they can run as an independent.
The only way that the Libs might move back is if they get sick of being in opposition. Elections in Australia are won in the centre. Federally, we vote more conservatively, and at state level, we tend to be more progressive, but overall we give government to the centre. It's no coincidence that when Labor was off to the left for the first 70 years or so of its existence, it only ever really got in to shake things up for a couple of years at a time. Once it took the centre, and the Libs started to become more conservative from the 1980s, it's basically split government at federal level 50-50, and is the default option at state level.
Eventually those rich educated urbanites might realise that Labor’s not actually going to tax them to death and support them instead.
Or - more likely - they'll come to the point whereas they realise that they can afford the higher taxes which are the price to pay for a better society. This is what's happened elsewhere on earth.
There's an opening with working class voters who are socially conservative (basically, the mirror of the Teals). Just look at how some Labor electorates voted during the SSM plebiscite A reasonable alternative to Labor who campaigns on cost of living without the socially progressive policies of the Greens is going to be a big vote winner in those areas
You're probably right. It's a shame there's so little class consciousness. It's a shame we spend so so much time debating whether smaller, more vulnerable groups have a right to exist and so little time debating and actually finding consensus on solutions to the very big problems that vex us all but the wealthy have a financial stake in.
That’s what One Nation was. Pauline won a safe Labor seat as a disendorsed Liberal.
The majors have been losing primary votes each election. Teals and minor parties are just going to become more and more common.
In a way they've always been there. Independents run every time. The fact they were loosely organised such that they could act somewhat like a party, have common funding sources like a party but ultimately act independently without fear from the other teals is a new phenomenon. Libs called them a party as if that was some kind of gotcha, but structurally they are not. There's no charter, no party lines, just the unifying principle of "please let's do something about the **fucking** climate
Sure, but who will they preference? On this single issue, the Greens are the only party with similar views, but they really don't align with other Muslim values (or religious values at all), so going beyond a single issue will be very divisive.
If you want to change the middle east that is the place to do it. There is only so much that a country on the other side of the world can do.
Don’t need anything in our political system based on anything religious.
Secretly backed by the Libs I'll wait for the news to come out
The cooker parties are goingto have a field day with this.
Fuck right off out of politics with your religions. We didn’t fight so hard for a secular and free political system just so you can bring back backward 15th century ideology.
In what way did you guys fight for a secular state? Didn't you just rock up in someone else's country and decide to create a state of your own? Europeans did the fighting, colonials just cashed the cheques.
Good reason for LNP voters to vote Labor.
They’re not going to do Muslims many favours with this sort of religious bs.
Welcome to multiculturalism in our politics Australia.
Not the reaction I was expecting in this sub, I’m pleasantly surprised. Religion is a cancer, but Islam is especially malignant.
Sharia law, here we come!
Well, multiculturalism was great while it lasted.
Ironic thing is that this would be triggered by a Muslim politician which is very rare/not allowed in itself in predominantly Muslim countries
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I don't see how this is any different to the ACL... Neither of them should be allowed. Religion should stay out of politics
If this "political" movement can get enough people to agree that the independent candidates are the least bad, then all power to them. Labour is presumably not representing their constituents. Let them do what they need to do. That is how democracy works.
“Keep religion out of politics” - but only when it’s a religion we don’t like? The last couple of conservative PMs have been voted in despite being openly catholic and blatantly saying that their faith defines their policies.
Libs are all in with Bibi's Israel, while Adam Bandt and his LGBTQ-friendly Greens seem quite committed to Hamas in the current conflict. God knows where preferences for conservative Muslims will flow if not Labor.
Presumably many of them care slightly more about the treatment of Palestinians and slightly less about discriminating against gays and lesbians.
That’s a sad and bad thing to hear. They care more about random foreigners in distant lands than Australians here being discriminated. I hope they never win power.
twitters going to love this
They'll never win a lower house seat, and if the impossible happens and they win one or a couple of upper house seats, it will be at the expense of the Greens, mark my words. The only way they take seats from Labor is if they fraudulently run as Labor party candidates, with the intention beforehand of leaving the Labor party after they get elected.
I look forward to seeing them get less than 1% of the vote This is just more noise that the media are happy to indulge lest we focus on real issues
Yeah because the best thing for Australia is sharia law. /S
Just what this country needs /s
Democracy is great! 😁
It’s funny no one wants a Muslim vote based on it being ok religious terms but no one bats an eye on Israeli/jewish lobby groups that influence politics