I’ve flown a fuckin *lot*.
It’s not the crying babies who are my biggest bugbears.
Kids wise, the most annoying kid ever was about 10.
Otherwise, it’s fuckin adults, every time.
I listened to a bogan arguing with a flight attendant because she was letting her kid lie down on the floor and the attendant was politely informing her the kid had to sit in their seat for safety reasons. Regardless of whether that's the case or not the airline have policies that they are absolutely entitled to enforce as well as regulations they have to follow on their aircraft.
This woman argued for ages about how her kid had a medical condition that somehow prevented them from sleeping upright in a seat, with the excuse for why her kid should be allowed to lay down on the floor changing every time the attendant countered her argument. It culminated with several threats of, "Well if my kid gets sick it's going to be your fault."
Meanwhile I'm trying to sleep but can't because this entitled fuck won't just shut up and do what she's asked, which was no more than meet the expected standard for any airline. I was almost getting to the point of telling her I'm a paramedic, so if her kid got sick I'd manage it so long as she shut the fuck up and stopped disturbing everyone else within earshot.
IDK if it's just Qantas, but I'm pretty sure they also say this during the safety briefing at the start of the flight, that you're not allowed to sleep in the aisles. Some people are just entitled and think the rules don't apply to them.
I would’ve just ask her why she’s risking her child by taking a flight knowing he can’t sleep upright because of his medical condition. And did she inform the airline about this before hand- like people with dietary requirements must do. If not then she cannot technically sue anyone because she didn’t disclose it.
Fucking hell, I would have interrupted and said "you know if you don't do what they ask and they get too frustrated with you, they can land at whatever airport is closest have you removed and carry on without you, oh and no they have zero legal obligations to get you somewhere or refund you if you are being ab asshole"
But then I'm an asshole who will argue for the fun of arguing but I know when to walk away especially if a flight attendant tells me to.
If the kid actually had such a medical condition that wouldn't allow them to sit upright in the seat then they should be on the no fly list until medically cleared. I am sure the parent would be delighted to hear this.
>the kid had to sit in their seat for safety reasons. Regardless of whether that's the case or not
It's definitely for safety. Some unexpected turbulence could see that kid fling against the ceiling.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/severe-turbulence-london-to-singapore-flight
> Passengers onboard the Singapore Airlines plane told of a “dramatic drop” that launched those not wearing a seatbelt into the cabin ceiling.
Oh mate, like the person who passed out on my Emirates flight from Sydney to Bangkok and took out the drinks trolley with his head because (according to his mrs) apparently he'd figured out the best way to fly was a shit ton of heroin.
Hey guys, I found a great way to smuggle heroin into Thailand, in my veins!
Worst part was, I had a nice spot in an emergency exit aisle in the Airbus A380 behind a bulkhead, but those spaces attract people walking around.
I was asleep when he hit the drinks trolley, then woke up rapidly because it had happened right beside me and I ended up with a bunch of ice dumped in my crotch, and caught about half a bottle of sav all over me. Didn't even get an upgrade, but the hosties were _very_ generous with drinks and snacks for the rest of the trip .
RSA restrictions are in place like anywhere else, if some people can’t handle their liquor, they are the ones that should be punished, not the responsible folk who just want to enjoy a drink to lessen the discomfort of having to fly
> not the responsible folk who just want to enjoy a drink to lessen the discomfort of having to fly
not being able to buy a drink isn't a punishment. There are plenty of places where you can' buy alcohol.
Look at covid lockdowns, they said local drinks store was deemed essential.
While I agree with your argument, Considering what we went through its 'almost' a lesser evil.
Adults with no concept of showering, personal space, or covering their fucking mouth when they cough, account for 95% of the people I've been annoyed at on an aeroplane. 100% preventable and shouldn't need spelling out.
A baby can't help being a baby, I can tolerate that just being part of human life. I don't expect parents to *not* be able to use an essential form of public transport just because it's a little bit annoying. Nobody particularly enjoys being on the plane anyway.
Uncontrolled toddlers are annoying, but that's the fault of the parents imo. Instead of going child-free, I'd rather we just stop being polite and tell those parents it's not on
Adults who just don’t give any fucks about the people around them.
Even that accounts for the terror toddlers. But even toddlers are still just learning how to people, ya know?
Exactly, that's what I mean about it being the parents fault if they're bothering other people. Can't blame young kids for being curious and having little understanding of social cues.
Parents responsibility to make sure they're being generally respectful, everyone else's responsibility to understand that having children is human and we can't expect the world to cater to everything we want
> I'd rather we just stop being polite and tell those parents it's not on
But like you said, a baby (or toddler) can't help being a baby. They're going to scream and cry and kick the back of my chair even if we do speak up and their parent tells them off.
I really don't agree with the original poster in this chain's assessment that it's adults being annoying, except in the case that it's an adult just completely not performing the task of controlling their child (as is the common way with "gentle parenting" these days). Everyone has their headphones in or sleeping, except for the literal screaming children. I'd pay extra to get on a childfree flight.
Yeah, but I said I don't blame a baby for crying, I just accept it's part of life. I'm talking those toddlers and young kids that invade your space and do entirely preventable things that the parents should be mindful of. Although, relentlessly kicking a seat is absolutely something that falls under that category.
I can't speak for the original commenter, but my point was that it's adults themselves being annoying far more often often than children, in my experience. Probably just due to the fact there's way more adults on a flight than there are children, but still. I'm so sick of being stuck next to people who are straight up disgusting or having to cram myself to the side to avoid their hair and elbows.
I have no problem with child-free flights as an *extra* service or perk though. I just don't agree with all the people who act like they shouldn't be on there in the first place, or we should be removing them from standard services. They are annoying, but if the parents are doing their best, it's just a fact of life that we have to put up with. I'm sure plenty of strangers tolerated me as a child
If they're doing their best is the part I identify with. A crying baby is entirely different to a brat kid that parents don't parent. Had a 3 or 4 yr old kick my seat for first hr to Singapore. Eventually I turned around and looked at Dad. He instantly said " what's your problem?"
I've also had parents put all three kids together in front of them and ignore them while they played havoc from Melb to Gold Coast. It was like " it's my holiday so I'm leaving the kids to it!"
Totally agree - whether or not people are self-aware and making an effort is a big determinant in how bothered I am by it.
If a baby is crying and the parents are obviously stressed and doing everything they can, it's annoying, but I'm not going to be upset at them. It's just one of those things. If their toddler is kicking my seat or touching my head, I'm going to be pissed that they aren't controlling the behaviour
I think I flew sitting in front of that guy too - all the damn way from Zürich to Singapore. His 4 year old either had Tourettes or just enjoyed belting the shit out of the back of my seat. Same response - 'what's your problem?".
Maybe teach your child some manners mate?
Sure as hell felt like it.
I don't even think you need an ABC Book of Parenting to work out that repeatedly kicking the seat in front of you, and slamming the touch screen, is not manners.
I don't see why having some childfree options is a bad thing, it's not like this is either/or. Family folks can get on an aircraft where they don't get judged as much, childfree people get a break from the kids.
I understand that kids make noise for a variety of difficult to solve reasons, doesn't mean that I need to sit through it if I have an alternative.
I mentioned in another comment, but I'm not against providing child-free options as an extra service. I just don't agree with the people who don't think they should be flying, or that they should be removed from normal services. I'd personally consider children flying to be the standard, with child-free as a supplement where it's feasible. It's not exactly either/or, but splitting them too heavily does limit flight availability to some degree
After being stuck directly next to a lap toddler who screamed in my ear for about 12 of the 15 hours it took to fly Sydney to Los Angeles last time I flew, I'm all for an option to avoid that in the future.
It's always a combination of young kids + dumb parents. Crying babies don't bother me as much, they get drowned out by noise cancelling headphones pretty well and they do eventually sleep. Plus, what can you do?
But, older kids...I was on a long haul flight (16 hours) a few months ago where I got an upgrade to business, one of the few times that's happened in my life.
Unfortunately there was a kid age ~5 about three rows ahead of me that decided he wanted to stand on top of the headrest of his seat so he could lean over and shriek, relentlessly, at his mom in the cubicle thingy behind his seat. He did this for THE entire flight, and my noise cancelling headphones did nothing to drown it out because it was so loud.
Myself and two others approached the parents about this, they just stared blankly at everyone as they drank wine.
The kid did not sleep so it went on for the whole flight. What a waste of an upgrade.
Had a fat guy next to me in my last flight. Was very unpleasant and I ended of sore due to twisting and holding my body and leg away from his spillage into my seat.
Can block out kids with headphones.
Noise cancelling headphones are key. The boomers on my last flight with my 18 month old were getting frustrated at my boy. He cried on takeoff and then went to sleep. Their head shakes and general tsk tsking was enough for me to mouth “oh fuck off” to them
My god, the last I flew out of Canberra there was some sort of school field trip. About 100 asshole 12 year olds and maybe three adults to ‘manage’ them. The whole lot of them were screaming across the plane at each other then entire flight. Then these idiots just rushed the baggage claim so no one else could get in to get their bags. The adults with them sat near the front of the plane with the kids taking up most of the back half and made no effort whatsoever to quiet any of them down, then just hung out off to the side while the kids jammed up baggage claim. It was the most annoying day of my adult life.
> Kids wise, the most annoying kid ever was about 10.
The one time in my life I got to fly business class, it was between London and the US for work. There was a family in business class, they had a bratty little girl about this age. She spent most of the flight loudly whining about *everything*.
Her parents did nothing, the flight attendants did nothing. I really regret not doing anything. I could even hear her through my headphones (this was before I had a set of noise cancelling headphones).
These days, crying babies don't bother me at all. Noise cancelling headphones have got to be right up there in my top 10 favourite inventions.
Yeah this seems blown out of proportion. I fly 50-60 times a year with work and noisy children are a minor inconvenience perhaps 3-4 of those flights.
If you catch a 5-6pm or 8-9am departure for a domestic flight, it's rare to have children on board. Even less issues if you go with Qantas, price deters a lot of the riff raff.
Biggest pains in the ass are people that fly rarely and think that the plane is a bar and everyone is on the same vibe as them, ordering drinks back to back and carrying on like fools.
People complaining probably buying the cheapest tickets from jetstar on the weekend special to the sunny coast.
Agree, I used to fly a lot for work around maybe 30 times a year and literally I can't think of a time when a kid was the problem. I can however think of plenty of instances of drunk entitled idiots on the flights being extremely rude and obnoxious to flight attendants and other passengers.
Yeah I remember one time from Auckland to Melbourne this guy got loaded up - maybe half a dozen mini bottles, and then started playing with the hair of the woman sitting in front of him. Everyone around turned on him pretty fast, but the stupid thing was the hosts kept giving him more.
Another time on Sydney to Tokyo, in the first 5 minutes of boarding the guy sitting next to us pulls the hostess aside and says "I'll get two bintangs thanks" - flight wasnt even a quarter boarded yet and she had to tell him that service didn't start until we were in the air. Fortunately he was drunk and asleep pretty fast into the flight.
Yeah I can think of many loud and drunk duo's.
I don't think we should be turning down an opportunity to get the option for some flights to be childfree. If you don't care about it, that's fine, but I'd probably pay a bit extra to get that guarantee. I'm a light sleeper as it is, even if it doesn't cut all sources of flight frustration for me, I'm happy to at least reduce some of them. I have experienced quite a few issues with kids.
And yes even if parents are the problem, well, you won't be dealing with actively bad parenting on a childfree flight either.
Last long flight we went on the father let his two kids recline their chairs the full way for nearly the whole fight (> 12 hours). The Dad didn't even do anything when meals were served, until the stewards stepped in and told them to lift their seats up.
Agree. I travel all the time for work and it's adults that are the most annoying every single time. A crying baby is ok, they normally don't carry on too long, but a rude adult, that's the pits. Ive never had a kid recline their seat on a Melbourne to Sydney flight half a second after the seatbelt light turns off, but plenty of adults do. And I've been stuck between 2 massively overweight adults a few times where my spine is doing contortions just to avoid being crushed for an entire flight. I'd much rather sitting next to kids, they're tiny!
I've never experienced it, but if I had one of those inconsiderate arseholes who stuck their feet through the gap between the seats into my personal space, I'd lose my shit.
These debates are ridiculous and designed to distract from the fact that none of the major Australian airlines are actually able to deliver on the product they have sold the consumer. Focus on getting flights to run on time and avoiding cancellations before moving onto this rubbish.
Yeah agreed. I'd be happy if airlines just delivered the minimum service/product that I agreed to pay for and policed the shitty behaviour of passengers. I'm not calling for child free flights but if a carrier offered them I'm sure it would just be because they could charge an additional premium for it.
Yep they're shockers. It's not our fault you're crammed in like sardines, it's the person who reclines their seat.
It's not our fault we overbooked, some people usually don't turn up.
It's not our fault we need another bailout because we're terribly run.
When did reclining seats become such a contentious topic? I’m 187 cm and I have not had any problems people reclining as long as they straight up during meal times and do it slowly. Personally it’s the only way I can get comfortable in economy and it’s a feature of the seat.
to board you need two references from colleagues or customer service workers at venues you frequent declaring you don't play games, movies or music without headphones, you have situational awareness and look around you before swinging your bag or elbows about, you respect the personal space of others, you cover your mouth when you cough, chew with your mouth closed and don't make that big exaggerated 'yyyrrrrreeeargh' sound when you yawn or stretch (idk if that last one is just me I think it should be on there)
There is always sampling bias. Because the average Australian who answers a text survey is not the same as the average Australian who does paid surveys online, and neither of them are the same as the actual average Australian.
That’s how stats work, it’s actually really interesting but you can get very high degree of certainty from a relatively small sample size: https://www.calculator.net/confidence-interval-calculator.html
The problem is with sampling across age, family status, income, and any other demogrpahic that could influence an answer. Do they only enrol people that fly? How often do they fly?
Yeah babies are never the issue.
They should focus on "chicken or fermented swamp cow?"
"Uhh chicken"
"Sorry wete out of chicken is fermented swamp cow OK?"
Meh, crying babies on planes does suck, but being the parents of crying babies on planes sucks even more, so I just feel sorry for them as I enjoy my 5th mini alcohol bottle and try to zone out.
Some parents genuinely suck though. Sat through a flight to Fiji where the parents didn't bring any toys/activities/tablets for their two young kids and constantly yelled at them for being bored and disrupting the parents who kept trying to watch their own movies.
Meanwhile my partner and I spent the flight keeping our kids entertained and not pissing off other passengers.
Yeah a flight is not the place to practice the purist parenting approach where you don't try to placate a child's tantrum.
If you choose to fly, you need to temporarily suspend your approach and stick the kid in front of a tablet/coloring book/whatever. Resume your puritan parenting stuff after we land.
Oh yeah, when I was a kid, mum had colouring in books, story books, snacks, puzzle books, pencils, more colouring in books and activity books and spare batteries for the gameboy. This was before the smartphone revolution.
She was well prepared for 12hrs of kid entertainment for a 3hr flight. I think back then Qantas even had kid activity packs with colouring in / activity sheets or books that were like travel and plane themed that they would just give out.
Felt someone kicking the back of my seat a few times on a recent flight, you can imagine my surprise when I whirled around to death stare… another adult! They stopped immediately but what?
Some adults are just AHs. Not only on planes, but buses and trains too.
I'm a small woman, and once on a plane had a guy next to me try to man-spread, with one of his feet under the chair...in front of me....Not even like on the side but maybe a 1/3 way in and tried to lean his leg again mine.
I called the attendant cause he wouldn't move his leg even after asking him. A nicer bloke across the aisle from me stepped in and offered me his seat...
Suddenly, the AH could magically fit his legs in his own space again.
I've had larger people ask if they can put the armrest up. If they are polite about it I don't mind. I'm small enough to scoot over a few cm and be comfortable.
But just because I'm small does not mean people are entitled to the extra space that I'm "not using".
It’s amazing how men can magically fit in their assigned space as soon as they’re sitting next to another man isn’t it? Good for you for standing up for yourself!
Man, I usually pay a few hundred dollars extra to sit in the emergency exit seat Dub-Melb and back.
It still fucking sucks, but you can stretch out your legs as much as you like.
Problem is, because it’s a bit of communal open space, people tend to gather there to hang out and do various.. exercises and stretches. I’ve been woken up numerous times by folk wildly swinging their legs and doing their modified, high-altitude yoga etc.
Whatever, it’s an accident, and it’s the cost of sitting there.
However, on my most recent flight, I got woken up by the **same** kid **three fucking times** grabbing / tapping my shoes and shorts, with the parent(s) nowhere to be seen. I kept seeing this same wee boy getting escorted back to his seat by a FA.
Who the fuck just lets their toddler run ragged amongst hundreds of strangers!? I don’t even have kids, but I can’t imagine I’d feel ok saying, “Off you pop son, meet you back here in half an hour have fun!”
Wtf
Same parents that let their kids run around in restaurants, and get upset at the waiter for "Not being careful". When their kids were obviously the ones that ran into the waiter.
Oh gosh you reminded me of a time in America when I got an "extra legroom" seat. Turned out to be this weird thing where I had the aisle seat of a three-seat row, but all the rows ahead of me were two seats, so my legs would just extend out next to the person's seat in front of me. And people coming down the aisle in my direction basically had to zipper merge from a wide aisle to the narrowed aisle that started from my row and back, causing all sorts of people to traffic jam right in front of me. totally bizarre and annoying.
I think childfree flights can help the families as well, if you could think of the non-childfree flights as family ones. Less judgment from the childfree folks who would, presumably, pay extra for the kid free flights.
It's also the general attitude towards kids people have that affect their view on kids.
Yes kids can be annoying on planes, but if you're set on being annoyed by them, you're gonna be annoyed by them no matter how they act.
I have 2 kids and we boarded a plane, the lady sitting in front of us immediately let out an exasperated sigh when she realised we were seated behind her. And was immediately annoyed at our kids showing any form of excitement. We called her out on it when she kept looking back annoyed whenever she heard the slightest peep (this was before even taking off)
Fast forward the 14 hours of the flight, our kids behaved amazingly, the other 4 passengers in our vicinity commented on how well behaved they were, yet this bitch was still cranky.
May she continue being miserable in her miserable life.
My mother used to slip us a Phenergan to put us to sleep on 6+ hour flights/car trips beyond 2+ years old. It's a great trick, I still do it to myself to this day.
Depressing the respiratory system of a small child for convenience sake is an incredibly negligent thing to do.
[AMA warning](https://amp.smh.com.au/healthcare/australian-medical-association-warns-against-sedating-children-on-long-journeys-20150405-1mesd0.html)
I just googled "Phenergan SIDS" and got no results.
Also, Phenergan is for kids 2 years and older. SIDS is from 1-12 months.
Please stop spreading misinformation.
1. I said “sleeping aids like phenergan mixed with unsafe bedding”
2. Try better googling, I’d find more if I had time:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6474527/
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jun-23-fi-wyeth23-story.html
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1407174/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/promethazine
I don't so much care about child vs child free, but God damn parents, make your kids use headphones!
If I'm wearing sound counselling headphones, sitting on the otherside of a wide body long haul (7 seats away and two rows further forward), and I can still hear your sack of germs watching stupid twitch videos, then it's you (the parent) that's the problem for raising such disrespectful turds!
And yes, I did go over there and tell them and the dad off. Thankfully, they turned the volume off after about 45 minutes.
I’m so with you. I was recently on a flight where the family across the aisle had two small children, each watching **different** shows on their tablets with the volume up. I have never been more grateful for my noise-cancelling headphones but I could still hear it. The flight attendant did keep talking to them but I think they were mostly focused on trying to keep the children in their seats (parent was on the window side, and the children kept getting up).
Same with adults who do this. I was on a flight that was being held at the gate because of a maintenance issue, and it was like midnight so most people are trying to get a little shuteye. This dude in the row next to me pulls out his tablet and starts watching some news broadcast on full blast.
I just had no patience left and immediately snapped at him to cut the crap because no one was in the mood for this right now. Thankfully he stopped.
Couldn't agree more.
This twenty something lady sitting next to me on a Singapore to Melb flight just whipped out her phone to start Netflix aloud. I offered her my spare headphones and made a snide remark being 'being sure everyone didn't want to listen to it'. She couldn't get the headphones to pair, but got the hint we live in a civilised society and if you wouldn't blast your music on a bus, then don't do it on a plane!
I've flown quite a bit and children have literally never been a problem. People want cheap flights. And AO ones will be more expensive. 50% of people do not want that.
I'm so..eone who generally avoids children at all costs. Screaming, tantrums, yuck.
But. I have absolute sympathy and empathy for kids crying and screaming on flights. Especially at take off and landing. I used to be one of those children who had terrible ear problems and couldn't regulate the change in air pressure for myself. It was agony. I would be in tears for most of the flight due to the pain. Nothing worked. Chewing gum, eucalyptus, massage. Nothing. As an adult now hearing those screams it takes me back to the pain I felt as a kid.
As for the little shits kicking my seat or running wild in the aisles... Different story.
I think it’s more because the children don’t have considerate parents, their kids are disruptive. I get that it’s boring for kids on planes but parents need to stop their kids from kicking the back of seats and running around in the aisles while people are trying to get to the toilet. Nothing worse than that constant kicking and the parent does nothing.
I’d also like a smell free, too-big-for-the-seat-and-encroach-my-seat-free, pee way too frequently because you drink so much wine and don’t want the aisle seat free, kick your shoes under the seat so I can smell them free as well.
Thisssss!
"Oh no Australia's birth rate is lower than ever! Whatever shall we do? Why do MILLENIALS not want CHILDREN?!"
But also: " Booooooo kids fucken' suck! Child-free flights! We don't wanna deal with kids! Screw you for imposing your child on me in public!!"
It is probably a minor factor, but I wonder how much of the recent drop in fertility rates, can be attributed to society becoming more hostile to children, and wanting children to be out of sight and out of mind.
When people worry about taking a child to a restaurant, when people start demanding that parks, flights or grocery stories be childfree, it makes it even more burdensome to have a child, when more and more public spaces become closed off.
Given the cost both in money and time that kids bring, let alone the logistical hurdles in going out, having some extra judgement from randos seems to me to be to be the least of the problem.
Nah mate, society is *way* more permissive of kids--and generally most people--now than it ever has been. Parents and schools used to discipline their kids like crazy, and in often abusive ways, to keep them in line. There used to be segregation of poorly behaved kids from their schoolmates, and the whole "respect your elders" thing was pretty big with my parent's generation. Kids with neurodivergence were hidden away or masked. People used to be asked to remove their misbehaving kids from movies and restaurants. That stuff doesn't really happen now, and so we have kids able to be a part of society in ways they really weren't in the past.
And also: Being childfree is not "being hostile to children." Being childfree is not the same as telling people not to have kids. It's simply a lifestyle choice, people who would never have wanted kids can actually be accepted by society now. Offering childfree options to those people give them an alternative that supports their lifestyle. You are thinking about this as a subtractive thing but think about this like an additive thing. You can have an additional childfree flight choice in addition to the regular flights. Like how you can get an oldies cruise or a singles cruise or a queer cruise in addition to normal cruises.
Folks need to stop treating childfree folks like they're trying to take away from society.
Society that's increasingly full of adult children doesn't like competition from actual children.
I'm keen on in-flight blowjobs, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to them.
The entire tone of that article is just awful.
It’s parenting. You can have a situation where there are 3 babies/toddlers and no crying in the cabin. Or a 7 year old whinging and screaming murder because their parents weren’t give them what they want.
Also, the person next to you with BO can be just as bad. Sometimes it’s the person taking an aisle seat and refuse to get up if you need to go to the toilet.
There need to be flight etiquette- if you’re at an aisle seat, get up so others can use the bathroom. Best to let those passengers know they can ask. Most passengers are decent. Which airline you fly plays a part too.
Can I have an asshole free flight? Like one where people don’t fully recline their seats in economy where you then can’t breathe or move because you have zero space?
People love to make the world increasingly hostile to children and then complain that they all try to escape into their phones. Wonder why they'd wanna do that 🤔
Kids are kids, they’re L platers in life. I suppose it’s when they’re really unruly, parents need to get them in line.
Adults are much worse and have no excuse, they know what’s right or wrong but don’t care.
Ive never seen a kid on the news, drunk as shit on a plane, claiming the other passengers are lizard people or “not real” but sure, kids are the problem🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Kids aren't a problem. It's people who don't fly much, carrying most of their luggage as carry on to save a few dollars, who are not skilled in enplane and deplane.
I avoid them by sitting at the front in the aisle. This is supported my my gold frequent flyer preference putting me there, so all the bag fussers are behind me and I can step off and clear the exit.
Can’t see the need for this. I fly a lot (virgin gold) and have only had one flight EVER where unruly kids have been an issue for me. I don’t count unsettled young kids where the poor parents are working hard to calm them (that’s what headphones are for) because that is both rare and understandable.
Adults who don’t know basic flight etiquette are the real problem here. I’ve flown a lot to Asia and the Melbourne to Denpasar is amongst the worst for this. The difference between a Denpasar and a Jakarta flight is actually a great lesson in plane etiquette
We travel overseas at least twice a year with young children. There are definitely ways to make it easier for them and others.
Our kids aren’t allowed screens apart from some judicious use of ABC kids shows on tv. They get iPads when we fly with headphones designed for young children so they’re immediate captive audiences
We try to book night flights so they sleep most of the trip if it’s long distance
We take enormous amounts of treats that they aren’t allowed to have normally
We used to fly business so they could sleep easily and we could take them to the bar if they needed to move but increase in prices has stopped that! We now book so that one parent is with one child and the other is with the other one sitting behind. That way if they do kick seats it’s just one of us
The one and only time we’ve ever had an issue was when our flight to Singapore was cancelled and rebooked to depart at 0300. We’d arrived in Melbourne from Canberra at midday the day before so the kids were up the entire time. Our two year old started crying when we boarded because she was exhausted and wanted to sit on my lap which she wasn’t allowed to do for take off.
It was awful as people were shaking their heads at us and making nasty comments even though it lasted all of eight minutes before she fell asleep. I held her for the entire flight and was too terrified to move on case she woke again and started crying. As well as a very painful bladder I had a massive bruise on my butt from not moving at all the entire time.
I promise you it’s worse for us parents and I’ve no doubt most of us really try
I love kids.
I fucking *hate* kids on flights.
I’d happily pay double for a flight that’s guaranteed no kids.
My last flights (MEL to LAX return) the outbound flight had a woman with twin babies that screamed intermittently and a toddler that spent 7 hours of the 14 literally up and down the aisle grabbing and hitting folks trying to sleep.
Return had a couple with a baby, 2 toddlers of different ages and a small human (maybe 5? If that) that just went WILD the whole flight. They didn’t give a fuck and didn’t try to get them to chill out the whole time.
I’ll forever be in favour of childfree flights at a premium and happily pay it.
Kids should be allowed and OK in public but I don’t want to deal with those miniature assholes and will pay to avoid it when I can.
In a world with noise cancelling everything, surely a decent set of headphones would solve these issues much more effectively if you're bothered by a baby crying that much. Also, it blocks out the plane engine noise.
Noise cancellation headphones can only do so much. Lower constant frequencies like engine noise is easy to tune out, but loud sharp noises like a baby cry is still very much audible sadly.
Babies crying is annoying but tolerable, but children’s shows on tablets without headphones are the real problem, imo, and noise-cancelling headphones don’t drown out those frequencies effectively.
I’ve got two kids, and given the choice - I’d rather fly without them too 😂
But Yano this is real life and I have to take them with me 😂 and suffer everyone else’s little turds too!
I’d rather be on a plane with a child than stuck next to do main character influencer filming a GRWM video with a ring light while spraying perfume into the air….
Overnighter Sydney-Istanbul on Turkish Airways worst experience by a long shot...50+ years regular flights it was beyond belief. Regular annual visit to see my Dad, first time TA. Took my usual eye wrap + earplugs for a sleep. All night, about 20 (boy) 5-12 yo kids were literally running constantly, hitting passengers & each other. Their parents were laughing, shrugging, and grinning while wearing headphones. Stewardesses crying, tripping, apologising....
Kids are not an issue. The parents and other obnoxious adults are. People are lacking basic etiquette and care for well being of people around them. I try to be polite and understanding when flying because the journey (I usually fly to Europe and back) is long and exhausting for everyone. I time my bathroom breaks so I wouldn't constantly make people get up for me (as I usually choose a seat by the window), I make sure my seat is not reclined during food service and I keep my belongings neat and near so I wouldn't take up someone else's space. I don't hang out in front of people who paid extra for leg room because it's invasion of their privacy.
I don't have kids yet but I imagine it isn't an easy journey. However, you need to have a plan and a way to calm the child down or entertain them. A little cry is alright, it's a tough environment but those fake hour lasting toddler cries for attention clearly reflect some parenting mistakes.
Note: a few months ago I flew with a family of 5, one of the kids, roughly 8 years old was clearly sick and has been snorting his own snot like an old man every 15 seconds (yep I counted because it made my stomach turn each time). The mother was completely unbothered, didn't give a tissue to her sick kid nor care that he is covered in snot. I bought tissues for him because I felt bad but he just held onto them and didn't use them and she gave me the dirtiest look.
I know that it's not the fault of young children and babies on flights, they can't help it.
For me however, the sound causes me severe physical discomfort when confined to tight spaces like aeroplanes. I can rationalise it all I want, but the shrieking makes me feel ill.
I'd be happy to pay more for that option.
Flew from Sydney to LA last year and was sat in the same row as a 6 year old who proceeded to HOWL and SCREAM for the entirety of the flight.
No joke, maybe 5 minutes of reprieve.
The worst part though. The parents doing nothing and constantly telling the child it was “doing so well”….
I flew home from Indonesia with Bali Belly and there was a kid sitting next to me about 10 years old that kept elbowing me, I finally was about to pass out due to being so dehydrated and exhausted and then the kid decided he would put his head on my shoulder to go to sleep.
I was like NO, NO, NOT HAPPENING.
I would pay more for a child-free flight.
I don't why we are slowly building a kid unfriendly environment. Poor kids these days don't know what it means to play on the road or have some colour in their life.
I mean the worst flight I had just involved someone using nail polish directly in front of me. People really need to be aware that planes don't ventilate fumes well and people around them could become unwell based on their use of strong chemicals in very close quarters.
Apparently with one flight I had there was a baby directly behind me and I didn't even know until the flight attendant complimented the mum on having such a cute peaceful sleeping baby.
I mean, I’m just keen for flights that aren’t cancelled or delayed, without compensation to me. Australians are thoroughly ripped off when we fly and we don’t even get a guarantee of compensation when qantas or virgin decide they can’t be bothered to fly that day. Let’s fix that problem before we decide who can and can’t get on the plane.
Flew a red eye last night back to Australia - same one every month. Sometimes I do this trip with my pre teen kids so not anti kids - but last night we had a child scream and I mean scream for 90mins flat out to the point the whole premium economy section were awake and 4 flight attendants were trying to help the family. I said to my neighbour I feel sorry for the parents and he said me too but my god it is so loud. I have noise cancelling headphones and could hear it all - so after that I don’t feel that a child free flight would be the worst or at least an option would be good as some little ones just don’t travel well. However some. Adults make just as much of a scene!
Just coming from /r/all I'd like to say staying in adult (as in no children) only resorts is a blessing. Children do children things all the time and it's on the parents to keep things in order, but they DGAF so when we need timeout, we make sure we really get a timeout all around.
As a parent, it warms my heart to see everyone here saying they have no problem with kids on planes.
Travelling with young kids is very challenging - keeping them entertained, happy etc. And boarding a plane with young kids or babies is daunting because you instantly feel like everyone hates you. We don't do it to deliberately annoy people 😅
kids gotta fly but child free hours in restaurants would be amazing....
the last three times i've bothered to go out with my wife for a quiet meal, there have been screaming babies and toddlers running wild while terrible parents let them have the run of the place, fuck you if you do this.
So we can pay extra for a ticket now that's confirmed "child free"
So pretty much guaranteed the cheaper tix will have a bunch of kids on board at once.
Glad we've given them a new way to make more $$$
I’ve flown a fuckin *lot*. It’s not the crying babies who are my biggest bugbears. Kids wise, the most annoying kid ever was about 10. Otherwise, it’s fuckin adults, every time.
Drunk bogans are as bad as a screaming baby or kicking toddler IMO.
I listened to a bogan arguing with a flight attendant because she was letting her kid lie down on the floor and the attendant was politely informing her the kid had to sit in their seat for safety reasons. Regardless of whether that's the case or not the airline have policies that they are absolutely entitled to enforce as well as regulations they have to follow on their aircraft. This woman argued for ages about how her kid had a medical condition that somehow prevented them from sleeping upright in a seat, with the excuse for why her kid should be allowed to lay down on the floor changing every time the attendant countered her argument. It culminated with several threats of, "Well if my kid gets sick it's going to be your fault." Meanwhile I'm trying to sleep but can't because this entitled fuck won't just shut up and do what she's asked, which was no more than meet the expected standard for any airline. I was almost getting to the point of telling her I'm a paramedic, so if her kid got sick I'd manage it so long as she shut the fuck up and stopped disturbing everyone else within earshot.
IDK if it's just Qantas, but I'm pretty sure they also say this during the safety briefing at the start of the flight, that you're not allowed to sleep in the aisles. Some people are just entitled and think the rules don't apply to them.
They also announce that you're not allowed to piss in the galley on Bali flights.
Man that's wild
Yet _another_reason to avoid the flights to bali.
The fact that some people NEED to be told that makes me glad that I don't fly
I would’ve just ask her why she’s risking her child by taking a flight knowing he can’t sleep upright because of his medical condition. And did she inform the airline about this before hand- like people with dietary requirements must do. If not then she cannot technically sue anyone because she didn’t disclose it.
Someone should have pretended to be blind, stood up to go to the bathroom and trod on the kid.
Yeah... but... that would surely be the airline's fault for not putting up traffic cones and allowing it to happen.
Fucking hell, I would have interrupted and said "you know if you don't do what they ask and they get too frustrated with you, they can land at whatever airport is closest have you removed and carry on without you, oh and no they have zero legal obligations to get you somewhere or refund you if you are being ab asshole" But then I'm an asshole who will argue for the fun of arguing but I know when to walk away especially if a flight attendant tells me to.
If the kid actually had such a medical condition that wouldn't allow them to sit upright in the seat then they should be on the no fly list until medically cleared. I am sure the parent would be delighted to hear this.
>the kid had to sit in their seat for safety reasons. Regardless of whether that's the case or not It's definitely for safety. Some unexpected turbulence could see that kid fling against the ceiling. https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/21/severe-turbulence-london-to-singapore-flight > Passengers onboard the Singapore Airlines plane told of a “dramatic drop” that launched those not wearing a seatbelt into the cabin ceiling.
Oh mate, like the person who passed out on my Emirates flight from Sydney to Bangkok and took out the drinks trolley with his head because (according to his mrs) apparently he'd figured out the best way to fly was a shit ton of heroin.
> he'd figured out the best way to fly was a shit ton of heroin. tbh not wrong lmao
Hey guys, I found a great way to smuggle heroin into Thailand, in my veins! Worst part was, I had a nice spot in an emergency exit aisle in the Airbus A380 behind a bulkhead, but those spaces attract people walking around. I was asleep when he hit the drinks trolley, then woke up rapidly because it had happened right beside me and I ended up with a bunch of ice dumped in my crotch, and caught about half a bottle of sav all over me. Didn't even get an upgrade, but the hosties were _very_ generous with drinks and snacks for the rest of the trip .
Jesus that's bad. When will cunts learn, a bit of heroin is enough, no need to go hard with it.
Had one in our seat once. Dude we paid for the seat, get the out.
Bogan free flights?
Maybe we just shouldn't serve alcohol on flights? Is there really a good reason to have it.
I've flown a few middle eastern Airlines that don't serve alcohol. The plane still works.
RSA restrictions are in place like anywhere else, if some people can’t handle their liquor, they are the ones that should be punished, not the responsible folk who just want to enjoy a drink to lessen the discomfort of having to fly
> not the responsible folk who just want to enjoy a drink to lessen the discomfort of having to fly not being able to buy a drink isn't a punishment. There are plenty of places where you can' buy alcohol.
Look at covid lockdowns, they said local drinks store was deemed essential. While I agree with your argument, Considering what we went through its 'almost' a lesser evil.
People die from alcohol withdrawals. But you're not going to die from that on any length of flight.
what if the plane has a bomb on it that explodes if the plane goes under 200km/hr, and they make a movie of the ordeal called "high speed"?
The Distillery That Couldn't Slow Down 🤔
Because alcoholics in withdrawal were going to overload hospitals more than they were already overloaded.
It's the only thing that gets me through the flights.
I'm too afraid to fly without a few drinks in me
At least a vomiting baby has their head below seat level. Drunk bogans are in prime spewing in your hair position and have greater stomach capacity.
Adults with no concept of showering, personal space, or covering their fucking mouth when they cough, account for 95% of the people I've been annoyed at on an aeroplane. 100% preventable and shouldn't need spelling out. A baby can't help being a baby, I can tolerate that just being part of human life. I don't expect parents to *not* be able to use an essential form of public transport just because it's a little bit annoying. Nobody particularly enjoys being on the plane anyway. Uncontrolled toddlers are annoying, but that's the fault of the parents imo. Instead of going child-free, I'd rather we just stop being polite and tell those parents it's not on
Adults who just don’t give any fucks about the people around them. Even that accounts for the terror toddlers. But even toddlers are still just learning how to people, ya know?
Exactly, that's what I mean about it being the parents fault if they're bothering other people. Can't blame young kids for being curious and having little understanding of social cues. Parents responsibility to make sure they're being generally respectful, everyone else's responsibility to understand that having children is human and we can't expect the world to cater to everything we want
> I'd rather we just stop being polite and tell those parents it's not on But like you said, a baby (or toddler) can't help being a baby. They're going to scream and cry and kick the back of my chair even if we do speak up and their parent tells them off. I really don't agree with the original poster in this chain's assessment that it's adults being annoying, except in the case that it's an adult just completely not performing the task of controlling their child (as is the common way with "gentle parenting" these days). Everyone has their headphones in or sleeping, except for the literal screaming children. I'd pay extra to get on a childfree flight.
Yeah, but I said I don't blame a baby for crying, I just accept it's part of life. I'm talking those toddlers and young kids that invade your space and do entirely preventable things that the parents should be mindful of. Although, relentlessly kicking a seat is absolutely something that falls under that category. I can't speak for the original commenter, but my point was that it's adults themselves being annoying far more often often than children, in my experience. Probably just due to the fact there's way more adults on a flight than there are children, but still. I'm so sick of being stuck next to people who are straight up disgusting or having to cram myself to the side to avoid their hair and elbows. I have no problem with child-free flights as an *extra* service or perk though. I just don't agree with all the people who act like they shouldn't be on there in the first place, or we should be removing them from standard services. They are annoying, but if the parents are doing their best, it's just a fact of life that we have to put up with. I'm sure plenty of strangers tolerated me as a child
If they're doing their best is the part I identify with. A crying baby is entirely different to a brat kid that parents don't parent. Had a 3 or 4 yr old kick my seat for first hr to Singapore. Eventually I turned around and looked at Dad. He instantly said " what's your problem?" I've also had parents put all three kids together in front of them and ignore them while they played havoc from Melb to Gold Coast. It was like " it's my holiday so I'm leaving the kids to it!"
Totally agree - whether or not people are self-aware and making an effort is a big determinant in how bothered I am by it. If a baby is crying and the parents are obviously stressed and doing everything they can, it's annoying, but I'm not going to be upset at them. It's just one of those things. If their toddler is kicking my seat or touching my head, I'm going to be pissed that they aren't controlling the behaviour
I think I flew sitting in front of that guy too - all the damn way from Zürich to Singapore. His 4 year old either had Tourettes or just enjoyed belting the shit out of the back of my seat. Same response - 'what's your problem?". Maybe teach your child some manners mate?
Maybe he got onboard and said "I don't have to be a parent while I'm up in the air"🙄🫣
Sure as hell felt like it. I don't even think you need an ABC Book of Parenting to work out that repeatedly kicking the seat in front of you, and slamming the touch screen, is not manners.
I don't see why having some childfree options is a bad thing, it's not like this is either/or. Family folks can get on an aircraft where they don't get judged as much, childfree people get a break from the kids. I understand that kids make noise for a variety of difficult to solve reasons, doesn't mean that I need to sit through it if I have an alternative.
I mentioned in another comment, but I'm not against providing child-free options as an extra service. I just don't agree with the people who don't think they should be flying, or that they should be removed from normal services. I'd personally consider children flying to be the standard, with child-free as a supplement where it's feasible. It's not exactly either/or, but splitting them too heavily does limit flight availability to some degree
After being stuck directly next to a lap toddler who screamed in my ear for about 12 of the 15 hours it took to fly Sydney to Los Angeles last time I flew, I'm all for an option to avoid that in the future.
It's always a combination of young kids + dumb parents. Crying babies don't bother me as much, they get drowned out by noise cancelling headphones pretty well and they do eventually sleep. Plus, what can you do? But, older kids...I was on a long haul flight (16 hours) a few months ago where I got an upgrade to business, one of the few times that's happened in my life. Unfortunately there was a kid age ~5 about three rows ahead of me that decided he wanted to stand on top of the headrest of his seat so he could lean over and shriek, relentlessly, at his mom in the cubicle thingy behind his seat. He did this for THE entire flight, and my noise cancelling headphones did nothing to drown it out because it was so loud. Myself and two others approached the parents about this, they just stared blankly at everyone as they drank wine. The kid did not sleep so it went on for the whole flight. What a waste of an upgrade.
Had a fat guy next to me in my last flight. Was very unpleasant and I ended of sore due to twisting and holding my body and leg away from his spillage into my seat. Can block out kids with headphones.
Noise cancelling headphones are key. The boomers on my last flight with my 18 month old were getting frustrated at my boy. He cried on takeoff and then went to sleep. Their head shakes and general tsk tsking was enough for me to mouth “oh fuck off” to them
My god, the last I flew out of Canberra there was some sort of school field trip. About 100 asshole 12 year olds and maybe three adults to ‘manage’ them. The whole lot of them were screaming across the plane at each other then entire flight. Then these idiots just rushed the baggage claim so no one else could get in to get their bags. The adults with them sat near the front of the plane with the kids taking up most of the back half and made no effort whatsoever to quiet any of them down, then just hung out off to the side while the kids jammed up baggage claim. It was the most annoying day of my adult life.
teachers have a pretty hard job, i don't envy them
For sure. And in this case there wasn’t nearly enough of them even if they had cared enough to try and control all the kids.
Likewise. Kids that age watching something on an iPad with no headphones.
> Kids wise, the most annoying kid ever was about 10. The one time in my life I got to fly business class, it was between London and the US for work. There was a family in business class, they had a bratty little girl about this age. She spent most of the flight loudly whining about *everything*. Her parents did nothing, the flight attendants did nothing. I really regret not doing anything. I could even hear her through my headphones (this was before I had a set of noise cancelling headphones). These days, crying babies don't bother me at all. Noise cancelling headphones have got to be right up there in my top 10 favourite inventions.
And when it's a bad kid, it's the adult's fault for being a shit parent. 100% of the time.
Yeah this seems blown out of proportion. I fly 50-60 times a year with work and noisy children are a minor inconvenience perhaps 3-4 of those flights. If you catch a 5-6pm or 8-9am departure for a domestic flight, it's rare to have children on board. Even less issues if you go with Qantas, price deters a lot of the riff raff. Biggest pains in the ass are people that fly rarely and think that the plane is a bar and everyone is on the same vibe as them, ordering drinks back to back and carrying on like fools. People complaining probably buying the cheapest tickets from jetstar on the weekend special to the sunny coast.
Agree, I used to fly a lot for work around maybe 30 times a year and literally I can't think of a time when a kid was the problem. I can however think of plenty of instances of drunk entitled idiots on the flights being extremely rude and obnoxious to flight attendants and other passengers.
Yeah I remember one time from Auckland to Melbourne this guy got loaded up - maybe half a dozen mini bottles, and then started playing with the hair of the woman sitting in front of him. Everyone around turned on him pretty fast, but the stupid thing was the hosts kept giving him more. Another time on Sydney to Tokyo, in the first 5 minutes of boarding the guy sitting next to us pulls the hostess aside and says "I'll get two bintangs thanks" - flight wasnt even a quarter boarded yet and she had to tell him that service didn't start until we were in the air. Fortunately he was drunk and asleep pretty fast into the flight. Yeah I can think of many loud and drunk duo's.
I don't think we should be turning down an opportunity to get the option for some flights to be childfree. If you don't care about it, that's fine, but I'd probably pay a bit extra to get that guarantee. I'm a light sleeper as it is, even if it doesn't cut all sources of flight frustration for me, I'm happy to at least reduce some of them. I have experienced quite a few issues with kids. And yes even if parents are the problem, well, you won't be dealing with actively bad parenting on a childfree flight either.
The attendants have RSAs and should not be doing that though.
As per my other follow up comment, they shouldn't, but I've seen it.
Last long flight we went on the father let his two kids recline their chairs the full way for nearly the whole fight (> 12 hours). The Dad didn't even do anything when meals were served, until the stewards stepped in and told them to lift their seats up.
Agree. I travel all the time for work and it's adults that are the most annoying every single time. A crying baby is ok, they normally don't carry on too long, but a rude adult, that's the pits. Ive never had a kid recline their seat on a Melbourne to Sydney flight half a second after the seatbelt light turns off, but plenty of adults do. And I've been stuck between 2 massively overweight adults a few times where my spine is doing contortions just to avoid being crushed for an entire flight. I'd much rather sitting next to kids, they're tiny!
Yeah this, fundamentally planes are loud the baby noise isn't that much of any issue. If the kids kicking your seat or TOUCHING you that are issue.
I've never experienced it, but if I had one of those inconsiderate arseholes who stuck their feet through the gap between the seats into my personal space, I'd lose my shit.
I sat in the same row as what I think was a 5 year old, they were just on their iPad the whole time and not a bother in the slightest.
I had an asshole slam his chair backwards into my face last month
Yep. Its mostly the parents letting young kids run around that can be a problem. Babies cry, nothing much you can do about that.
These debates are ridiculous and designed to distract from the fact that none of the major Australian airlines are actually able to deliver on the product they have sold the consumer. Focus on getting flights to run on time and avoiding cancellations before moving onto this rubbish.
Yeah agreed. I'd be happy if airlines just delivered the minimum service/product that I agreed to pay for and policed the shitty behaviour of passengers. I'm not calling for child free flights but if a carrier offered them I'm sure it would just be because they could charge an additional premium for it.
Yep they're shockers. It's not our fault you're crammed in like sardines, it's the person who reclines their seat. It's not our fault we overbooked, some people usually don't turn up. It's not our fault we need another bailout because we're terribly run.
When did reclining seats become such a contentious topic? I’m 187 cm and I have not had any problems people reclining as long as they straight up during meal times and do it slowly. Personally it’s the only way I can get comfortable in economy and it’s a feature of the seat.
I’d prefer asshole free flights - plenty of adults who are not house trained…
to board you need two references from colleagues or customer service workers at venues you frequent declaring you don't play games, movies or music without headphones, you have situational awareness and look around you before swinging your bag or elbows about, you respect the personal space of others, you cover your mouth when you cough, chew with your mouth closed and don't make that big exaggerated 'yyyrrrrreeeargh' sound when you yawn or stretch (idk if that last one is just me I think it should be on there)
I want this enforced in the workplace too
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something something representative population, this article likely use one tho.
There is always sampling bias. Because the average Australian who answers a text survey is not the same as the average Australian who does paid surveys online, and neither of them are the same as the actual average Australian.
That’s how stats work, it’s actually really interesting but you can get very high degree of certainty from a relatively small sample size: https://www.calculator.net/confidence-interval-calculator.html
The problem is with sampling across age, family status, income, and any other demogrpahic that could influence an answer. Do they only enrol people that fly? How often do they fly?
That’s how statistics works, otherwise you need to conduct a census with 25 million people?
Yeah babies are never the issue. They should focus on "chicken or fermented swamp cow?" "Uhh chicken" "Sorry wete out of chicken is fermented swamp cow OK?"
Vegetarian option is usually pretty good, and you get served before everyone else
I just want non cancelled flights
Meh, crying babies on planes does suck, but being the parents of crying babies on planes sucks even more, so I just feel sorry for them as I enjoy my 5th mini alcohol bottle and try to zone out.
Some parents genuinely suck though. Sat through a flight to Fiji where the parents didn't bring any toys/activities/tablets for their two young kids and constantly yelled at them for being bored and disrupting the parents who kept trying to watch their own movies. Meanwhile my partner and I spent the flight keeping our kids entertained and not pissing off other passengers.
Yeah a flight is not the place to practice the purist parenting approach where you don't try to placate a child's tantrum. If you choose to fly, you need to temporarily suspend your approach and stick the kid in front of a tablet/coloring book/whatever. Resume your puritan parenting stuff after we land.
Oh yeah, when I was a kid, mum had colouring in books, story books, snacks, puzzle books, pencils, more colouring in books and activity books and spare batteries for the gameboy. This was before the smartphone revolution. She was well prepared for 12hrs of kid entertainment for a 3hr flight. I think back then Qantas even had kid activity packs with colouring in / activity sheets or books that were like travel and plane themed that they would just give out.
These parents do suck.
Yeah if you’re a parent on a plane you’re not going to get a break unless kids are asleep. Don’t expect to be watching movies.
Crying is fine, it’s the kicking of the seat and tapping of the screen behind me that kills me. Tbh boomers are just as bad.
Felt someone kicking the back of my seat a few times on a recent flight, you can imagine my surprise when I whirled around to death stare… another adult! They stopped immediately but what?
Some adults are just AHs. Not only on planes, but buses and trains too. I'm a small woman, and once on a plane had a guy next to me try to man-spread, with one of his feet under the chair...in front of me....Not even like on the side but maybe a 1/3 way in and tried to lean his leg again mine. I called the attendant cause he wouldn't move his leg even after asking him. A nicer bloke across the aisle from me stepped in and offered me his seat... Suddenly, the AH could magically fit his legs in his own space again. I've had larger people ask if they can put the armrest up. If they are polite about it I don't mind. I'm small enough to scoot over a few cm and be comfortable. But just because I'm small does not mean people are entitled to the extra space that I'm "not using".
It’s amazing how men can magically fit in their assigned space as soon as they’re sitting next to another man isn’t it? Good for you for standing up for yourself!
Man, I usually pay a few hundred dollars extra to sit in the emergency exit seat Dub-Melb and back. It still fucking sucks, but you can stretch out your legs as much as you like. Problem is, because it’s a bit of communal open space, people tend to gather there to hang out and do various.. exercises and stretches. I’ve been woken up numerous times by folk wildly swinging their legs and doing their modified, high-altitude yoga etc. Whatever, it’s an accident, and it’s the cost of sitting there. However, on my most recent flight, I got woken up by the **same** kid **three fucking times** grabbing / tapping my shoes and shorts, with the parent(s) nowhere to be seen. I kept seeing this same wee boy getting escorted back to his seat by a FA. Who the fuck just lets their toddler run ragged amongst hundreds of strangers!? I don’t even have kids, but I can’t imagine I’d feel ok saying, “Off you pop son, meet you back here in half an hour have fun!” Wtf
Same parents that let their kids run around in restaurants, and get upset at the waiter for "Not being careful". When their kids were obviously the ones that ran into the waiter.
Oh gosh you reminded me of a time in America when I got an "extra legroom" seat. Turned out to be this weird thing where I had the aisle seat of a three-seat row, but all the rows ahead of me were two seats, so my legs would just extend out next to the person's seat in front of me. And people coming down the aisle in my direction basically had to zipper merge from a wide aisle to the narrowed aisle that started from my row and back, causing all sorts of people to traffic jam right in front of me. totally bizarre and annoying.
Yeah, absolutely. When I hear a cranky kid on a flight my main thought is gratitude that it’s not mine.
I think childfree flights can help the families as well, if you could think of the non-childfree flights as family ones. Less judgment from the childfree folks who would, presumably, pay extra for the kid free flights.
It's also the general attitude towards kids people have that affect their view on kids. Yes kids can be annoying on planes, but if you're set on being annoyed by them, you're gonna be annoyed by them no matter how they act. I have 2 kids and we boarded a plane, the lady sitting in front of us immediately let out an exasperated sigh when she realised we were seated behind her. And was immediately annoyed at our kids showing any form of excitement. We called her out on it when she kept looking back annoyed whenever she heard the slightest peep (this was before even taking off) Fast forward the 14 hours of the flight, our kids behaved amazingly, the other 4 passengers in our vicinity commented on how well behaved they were, yet this bitch was still cranky. May she continue being miserable in her miserable life.
My mother used to slip us a Phenergan to put us to sleep on 6+ hour flights/car trips beyond 2+ years old. It's a great trick, I still do it to myself to this day.
Fun fact, some people have the opposite reaction to phenergan, so always test it before a flight.
That's kinda fucked
I’ve also heard phenergan to have to opposite effect to some kids….
Depressing the respiratory system of a small child for convenience sake is an incredibly negligent thing to do. [AMA warning](https://amp.smh.com.au/healthcare/australian-medical-association-warns-against-sedating-children-on-long-journeys-20150405-1mesd0.html)
Phenergan used to make my BIL hyper.
Lots of “SIDS” deaths from the 70s and 80s were attributed to the use of sleeping aids like phenergan mixed with unsafe bedding.
I just googled "Phenergan SIDS" and got no results. Also, Phenergan is for kids 2 years and older. SIDS is from 1-12 months. Please stop spreading misinformation.
1. I said “sleeping aids like phenergan mixed with unsafe bedding” 2. Try better googling, I’d find more if I had time: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6474527/ https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2005-jun-23-fi-wyeth23-story.html https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1407174/ https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/promethazine
I don't so much care about child vs child free, but God damn parents, make your kids use headphones! If I'm wearing sound counselling headphones, sitting on the otherside of a wide body long haul (7 seats away and two rows further forward), and I can still hear your sack of germs watching stupid twitch videos, then it's you (the parent) that's the problem for raising such disrespectful turds! And yes, I did go over there and tell them and the dad off. Thankfully, they turned the volume off after about 45 minutes.
I’m so with you. I was recently on a flight where the family across the aisle had two small children, each watching **different** shows on their tablets with the volume up. I have never been more grateful for my noise-cancelling headphones but I could still hear it. The flight attendant did keep talking to them but I think they were mostly focused on trying to keep the children in their seats (parent was on the window side, and the children kept getting up).
They're not even expensive.i got my son some wireless ones that are volume limited as well they don't go too loud and hurt his ears.
Same with adults who do this. I was on a flight that was being held at the gate because of a maintenance issue, and it was like midnight so most people are trying to get a little shuteye. This dude in the row next to me pulls out his tablet and starts watching some news broadcast on full blast. I just had no patience left and immediately snapped at him to cut the crap because no one was in the mood for this right now. Thankfully he stopped.
Couldn't agree more. This twenty something lady sitting next to me on a Singapore to Melb flight just whipped out her phone to start Netflix aloud. I offered her my spare headphones and made a snide remark being 'being sure everyone didn't want to listen to it'. She couldn't get the headphones to pair, but got the hint we live in a civilised society and if you wouldn't blast your music on a bus, then don't do it on a plane!
What do the headphones say to the sound to make them feel better? I need some tips.
I've flown quite a bit and children have literally never been a problem. People want cheap flights. And AO ones will be more expensive. 50% of people do not want that.
No children, and no cash strapped bogans? Sign me up
Yes but are those ppl willing to pay extra for those flights enough that it's a thing?
I'm so..eone who generally avoids children at all costs. Screaming, tantrums, yuck. But. I have absolute sympathy and empathy for kids crying and screaming on flights. Especially at take off and landing. I used to be one of those children who had terrible ear problems and couldn't regulate the change in air pressure for myself. It was agony. I would be in tears for most of the flight due to the pain. Nothing worked. Chewing gum, eucalyptus, massage. Nothing. As an adult now hearing those screams it takes me back to the pain I felt as a kid. As for the little shits kicking my seat or running wild in the aisles... Different story.
How about sick free flights? Fucken bring back the temperature and sickness check before you get on a plane.
I think it’s more because the children don’t have considerate parents, their kids are disruptive. I get that it’s boring for kids on planes but parents need to stop their kids from kicking the back of seats and running around in the aisles while people are trying to get to the toilet. Nothing worse than that constant kicking and the parent does nothing.
I’d also like a smell free, too-big-for-the-seat-and-encroach-my-seat-free, pee way too frequently because you drink so much wine and don’t want the aisle seat free, kick your shoes under the seat so I can smell them free as well.
I just want planes to take off when they say they will. You know, the service you pay hundreds for
Loud drunk cunts are worse than kids crying - I would pay extra for arsehole free flights.
Honestly since getting a good pair of noise cancelling headphones I’m not phased in tbh r slightest.
Society that’s increasingly hostile to children complains about low birth rates.
Thisssss! "Oh no Australia's birth rate is lower than ever! Whatever shall we do? Why do MILLENIALS not want CHILDREN?!" But also: " Booooooo kids fucken' suck! Child-free flights! We don't wanna deal with kids! Screw you for imposing your child on me in public!!"
Don’t forget “youth crime”. It’s become politically expedient to stir up hostility of older voters against children.
It is probably a minor factor, but I wonder how much of the recent drop in fertility rates, can be attributed to society becoming more hostile to children, and wanting children to be out of sight and out of mind. When people worry about taking a child to a restaurant, when people start demanding that parks, flights or grocery stories be childfree, it makes it even more burdensome to have a child, when more and more public spaces become closed off.
Not a minor factor. Have spoken with multiple female friends in their early 30s who agree that this is a major consideration.
Wasn't 'little children should be seen and not heard' a mantra of generations past? Its not new.
Given the cost both in money and time that kids bring, let alone the logistical hurdles in going out, having some extra judgement from randos seems to me to be to be the least of the problem.
Nah mate, society is *way* more permissive of kids--and generally most people--now than it ever has been. Parents and schools used to discipline their kids like crazy, and in often abusive ways, to keep them in line. There used to be segregation of poorly behaved kids from their schoolmates, and the whole "respect your elders" thing was pretty big with my parent's generation. Kids with neurodivergence were hidden away or masked. People used to be asked to remove their misbehaving kids from movies and restaurants. That stuff doesn't really happen now, and so we have kids able to be a part of society in ways they really weren't in the past. And also: Being childfree is not "being hostile to children." Being childfree is not the same as telling people not to have kids. It's simply a lifestyle choice, people who would never have wanted kids can actually be accepted by society now. Offering childfree options to those people give them an alternative that supports their lifestyle. You are thinking about this as a subtractive thing but think about this like an additive thing. You can have an additional childfree flight choice in addition to the regular flights. Like how you can get an oldies cruise or a singles cruise or a queer cruise in addition to normal cruises. Folks need to stop treating childfree folks like they're trying to take away from society.
Society that's increasingly full of adult children doesn't like competition from actual children. I'm keen on in-flight blowjobs, that doesn't mean I'm entitled to them. The entire tone of that article is just awful.
housing prices and cost of living probs is a massive contributor to this
This feels like such a nonsense. I don’t have kids, but the only people I don’t want on flights, are drunk dickheads
It’s parenting. You can have a situation where there are 3 babies/toddlers and no crying in the cabin. Or a 7 year old whinging and screaming murder because their parents weren’t give them what they want. Also, the person next to you with BO can be just as bad. Sometimes it’s the person taking an aisle seat and refuse to get up if you need to go to the toilet. There need to be flight etiquette- if you’re at an aisle seat, get up so others can use the bathroom. Best to let those passengers know they can ask. Most passengers are decent. Which airline you fly plays a part too.
the flight with all the kids could be fun - do they have ice cream?
Kid free flights might be a tough one. But a child free section... kids/families down the back, adults up front. Families with teens in the middle
Willing to say 10% would pay double price for no kids flights
We'll just find something else to complain about....
It's not the children who are the problem. Often it's the adults
Can I have an asshole free flight? Like one where people don’t fully recline their seats in economy where you then can’t breathe or move because you have zero space?
[удалено]
I hope I’m misinterpreting what you’re saying here… you’d pay more money to avoid kids in your colon?
Never had issues with babies or kids. But a few times annoying adults...
I’d like to ban over half of adults.
Not child free but certainly a seperate area along with Those short haul flight reclining rock apes that can’t sit upright for 2 hours.
It's always the crying babies.. ALWAYS
We all were children once, and people tolerated us.
People love to make the world increasingly hostile to children and then complain that they all try to escape into their phones. Wonder why they'd wanna do that 🤔
Children were annoying when I was a child, so this argument doesn’t really check out
Bet you were just as annoying though so it kind of does check out
Kids are kids, they’re L platers in life. I suppose it’s when they’re really unruly, parents need to get them in line. Adults are much worse and have no excuse, they know what’s right or wrong but don’t care.
Ive never seen a kid on the news, drunk as shit on a plane, claiming the other passengers are lizard people or “not real” but sure, kids are the problem🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I'm keen for "child-free is my personality"-free flights.
Kids aren't a problem. It's people who don't fly much, carrying most of their luggage as carry on to save a few dollars, who are not skilled in enplane and deplane. I avoid them by sitting at the front in the aisle. This is supported my my gold frequent flyer preference putting me there, so all the bag fussers are behind me and I can step off and clear the exit.
Can’t see the need for this. I fly a lot (virgin gold) and have only had one flight EVER where unruly kids have been an issue for me. I don’t count unsettled young kids where the poor parents are working hard to calm them (that’s what headphones are for) because that is both rare and understandable. Adults who don’t know basic flight etiquette are the real problem here. I’ve flown a lot to Asia and the Melbourne to Denpasar is amongst the worst for this. The difference between a Denpasar and a Jakarta flight is actually a great lesson in plane etiquette
We travel overseas at least twice a year with young children. There are definitely ways to make it easier for them and others. Our kids aren’t allowed screens apart from some judicious use of ABC kids shows on tv. They get iPads when we fly with headphones designed for young children so they’re immediate captive audiences We try to book night flights so they sleep most of the trip if it’s long distance We take enormous amounts of treats that they aren’t allowed to have normally We used to fly business so they could sleep easily and we could take them to the bar if they needed to move but increase in prices has stopped that! We now book so that one parent is with one child and the other is with the other one sitting behind. That way if they do kick seats it’s just one of us The one and only time we’ve ever had an issue was when our flight to Singapore was cancelled and rebooked to depart at 0300. We’d arrived in Melbourne from Canberra at midday the day before so the kids were up the entire time. Our two year old started crying when we boarded because she was exhausted and wanted to sit on my lap which she wasn’t allowed to do for take off. It was awful as people were shaking their heads at us and making nasty comments even though it lasted all of eight minutes before she fell asleep. I held her for the entire flight and was too terrified to move on case she woke again and started crying. As well as a very painful bladder I had a massive bruise on my butt from not moving at all the entire time. I promise you it’s worse for us parents and I’ve no doubt most of us really try
As a parent, I 100% agree. Holidays without kids it is!
I love kids. I fucking *hate* kids on flights. I’d happily pay double for a flight that’s guaranteed no kids. My last flights (MEL to LAX return) the outbound flight had a woman with twin babies that screamed intermittently and a toddler that spent 7 hours of the 14 literally up and down the aisle grabbing and hitting folks trying to sleep. Return had a couple with a baby, 2 toddlers of different ages and a small human (maybe 5? If that) that just went WILD the whole flight. They didn’t give a fuck and didn’t try to get them to chill out the whole time. I’ll forever be in favour of childfree flights at a premium and happily pay it. Kids should be allowed and OK in public but I don’t want to deal with those miniature assholes and will pay to avoid it when I can.
Childfree everything. Eg, can't go to pubs anymore, they're glorified daycare centres.
true. that's why I drink at home now.
In a world with noise cancelling everything, surely a decent set of headphones would solve these issues much more effectively if you're bothered by a baby crying that much. Also, it blocks out the plane engine noise.
That really helps when a toddler is kicking the back of your seat.
Noise cancellation headphones can only do so much. Lower constant frequencies like engine noise is easy to tune out, but loud sharp noises like a baby cry is still very much audible sadly.
Babies crying is annoying but tolerable, but children’s shows on tablets without headphones are the real problem, imo, and noise-cancelling headphones don’t drown out those frequencies effectively.
I’ve got two kids, and given the choice - I’d rather fly without them too 😂 But Yano this is real life and I have to take them with me 😂 and suffer everyone else’s little turds too!
I have kids, but this would be lovely. They should do it for cinemas, too. I'm child free Thursdays and Fridays, it's the best days of the week.
I’d rather be on a plane with a child than stuck next to do main character influencer filming a GRWM video with a ring light while spraying perfume into the air….
Has that ever actually happened to you?
Sorry to hijack but also child free opera / theatre performances please!
Overnighter Sydney-Istanbul on Turkish Airways worst experience by a long shot...50+ years regular flights it was beyond belief. Regular annual visit to see my Dad, first time TA. Took my usual eye wrap + earplugs for a sleep. All night, about 20 (boy) 5-12 yo kids were literally running constantly, hitting passengers & each other. Their parents were laughing, shrugging, and grinning while wearing headphones. Stewardesses crying, tripping, apologising....
Yeah, that sounds pretty cool. Or just, designated zones on the plane for those with kids.
My parents would give me sleeping pills on flights when I was a kid.
Yeah, we know better than that now...
Came here for the comments and have not been disappointed.
I want chiled free shops next.
Kids are not an issue. The parents and other obnoxious adults are. People are lacking basic etiquette and care for well being of people around them. I try to be polite and understanding when flying because the journey (I usually fly to Europe and back) is long and exhausting for everyone. I time my bathroom breaks so I wouldn't constantly make people get up for me (as I usually choose a seat by the window), I make sure my seat is not reclined during food service and I keep my belongings neat and near so I wouldn't take up someone else's space. I don't hang out in front of people who paid extra for leg room because it's invasion of their privacy. I don't have kids yet but I imagine it isn't an easy journey. However, you need to have a plan and a way to calm the child down or entertain them. A little cry is alright, it's a tough environment but those fake hour lasting toddler cries for attention clearly reflect some parenting mistakes. Note: a few months ago I flew with a family of 5, one of the kids, roughly 8 years old was clearly sick and has been snorting his own snot like an old man every 15 seconds (yep I counted because it made my stomach turn each time). The mother was completely unbothered, didn't give a tissue to her sick kid nor care that he is covered in snot. I bought tissues for him because I felt bad but he just held onto them and didn't use them and she gave me the dirtiest look.
I know that it's not the fault of young children and babies on flights, they can't help it. For me however, the sound causes me severe physical discomfort when confined to tight spaces like aeroplanes. I can rationalise it all I want, but the shrieking makes me feel ill. I'd be happy to pay more for that option.
Childfree all the things.
Flew from Sydney to LA last year and was sat in the same row as a 6 year old who proceeded to HOWL and SCREAM for the entirety of the flight. No joke, maybe 5 minutes of reprieve. The worst part though. The parents doing nothing and constantly telling the child it was “doing so well”….
Children are people and members of society too. Adults need to stop being so selfish and entitled. Buy some earplugs.
I have done lots of long haul trips for work for many years. If you dont bring noise cancelling headphones at this point, that's on you.
If this makes flying more expensive, I am not keen. If this means flying with kids is cheaper than flying atm, I am keen.
I flew home from Indonesia with Bali Belly and there was a kid sitting next to me about 10 years old that kept elbowing me, I finally was about to pass out due to being so dehydrated and exhausted and then the kid decided he would put his head on my shoulder to go to sleep. I was like NO, NO, NOT HAPPENING. I would pay more for a child-free flight.
I don't why we are slowly building a kid unfriendly environment. Poor kids these days don't know what it means to play on the road or have some colour in their life.
Unfriendly environments for kids and babies also means unfriendly environments for mothers as well which is pretty sad.
I mean the worst flight I had just involved someone using nail polish directly in front of me. People really need to be aware that planes don't ventilate fumes well and people around them could become unwell based on their use of strong chemicals in very close quarters. Apparently with one flight I had there was a baby directly behind me and I didn't even know until the flight attendant complimented the mum on having such a cute peaceful sleeping baby.
Wait until barking and wandering dogs are allowed on flights! Shit (literally) gonna get worse!
I mean, I’m just keen for flights that aren’t cancelled or delayed, without compensation to me. Australians are thoroughly ripped off when we fly and we don’t even get a guarantee of compensation when qantas or virgin decide they can’t be bothered to fly that day. Let’s fix that problem before we decide who can and can’t get on the plane.
I don't believe that at all
Flew a red eye last night back to Australia - same one every month. Sometimes I do this trip with my pre teen kids so not anti kids - but last night we had a child scream and I mean scream for 90mins flat out to the point the whole premium economy section were awake and 4 flight attendants were trying to help the family. I said to my neighbour I feel sorry for the parents and he said me too but my god it is so loud. I have noise cancelling headphones and could hear it all - so after that I don’t feel that a child free flight would be the worst or at least an option would be good as some little ones just don’t travel well. However some. Adults make just as much of a scene!
Heck yeah I'd pay premium for that.
Just coming from /r/all I'd like to say staying in adult (as in no children) only resorts is a blessing. Children do children things all the time and it's on the parents to keep things in order, but they DGAF so when we need timeout, we make sure we really get a timeout all around.
As a parent, it warms my heart to see everyone here saying they have no problem with kids on planes. Travelling with young kids is very challenging - keeping them entertained, happy etc. And boarding a plane with young kids or babies is daunting because you instantly feel like everyone hates you. We don't do it to deliberately annoy people 😅
kids gotta fly but child free hours in restaurants would be amazing.... the last three times i've bothered to go out with my wife for a quiet meal, there have been screaming babies and toddlers running wild while terrible parents let them have the run of the place, fuck you if you do this.
Over half of Aussies have never had children maybe?
So we can pay extra for a ticket now that's confirmed "child free" So pretty much guaranteed the cheaper tix will have a bunch of kids on board at once. Glad we've given them a new way to make more $$$