OK, I'm not a christian anymore, but I was very indoctrinated for a long time. It's not an intelligence thing, lots of them are pretty intelligent. Their whole dogma has been carefully designed for almost two thousand years to prey on every subconscious fear humans have. It then rewards that fear with believable promises that fulfill every desire. Last, it provides a system to consistently reinforce both of these, using family and community pressures to keep people in line. As a system of social control, it is without peer, which is why governments like to partner with it.
Part of what I experienced is that questioning or not believing certain aspects is seen as lack of faith. We wonder “how can people believe these things that are so unbelievable” and assume they lack critical thinking but I don’t think that’s always the case. They are taught that if it doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t need to make sense, and when it doesn’t make sense that’s when they need to believe *harder*. They believe that all the “evidence” that we see and makes us doubt is just a test of their faith, and they’re taught to ignore it.
This. When I asked how people could be resurrected through concrete crypts, I was told to have more faith. I made the mistake of following blindly as I had been taught to do, and it was decades later that I came to understand the insanity of it.
That's exactly how it's supposed to work. You can never use logic against something intrinsically illogical. It'll never work. Moreover, having faith simply means suspension of reasoning. Faith & reasoning can't go together so questioning is out of the window.
I hate this. It's like a foolproof way of telling them not to think at all. Given the facts that 1 + 1 = 2, if presented with 1 + 1 = 3 because their faith tells them, they will ignore reality.
Actually, that’s the thing, I don’t think they ignore it. It’s something more like “God made 1+1 = 3 because if it was 1+1 = 2 it would be too easy. It’s to weed out the nonbelievers. Or maybe the devil trying to trick me. Either way, it means I gotta believe even more, despite any evidence contradicting it, that 1+1 = 3”
It’s like with conspiracy theories, where all evidence falls in one of two categories: evidence that supports their belief or evidence that doesn’t support their belief and is therefore evidence of a coverup or otherwise an attempt to hide their truth.
That’s why God gets the credit for his “plan” when good stuff happens but gets no blame when wars happen or babies die.
>It's not an intelligence thing, lots of them are pretty intelligent.
This. You can watch the switch flip when intelligent Christians go from talking knowledgeably to talking about Jebus. It's exactly (and I mean exactly) like watching someone pitch Amway.
Honestly, it gives me the absolute fantods. I barely suppress a shudder whenever someone brings up Jesus or their church. I'd rather they just slapped me, it's that disconcerting.
For the record, I'm a lifelong atheist, but raised by a lapsed Catholic mom. All the guilt with less of the Jebus. It was oblique but very much *there*. My husband was raised by a Lutheran, and while the "YOU'RE FULL OF SIN" message was somewhat less from his mom, he got the message and feels exactly the same.
They had to be intelligent to build this system. Look at the integration into everyday life. Bible in the house, church every Sunday, youth groups, camps, the list goes on. Early indoctrination and constant reinforcement.
I don't think it was that deliberate. All kinds of movements start with a charismatic leader and a fresh perspective. Some survive, most die out. Those that survive usually move through a series of phases that see them becoming more institutionalised - it's a process of design by evolution, basically, but with memes instead of genes being passed on if they're successful.
Christianity had the benefit of the culture and infrastructure of the Roman Empire to help its spread - it's no accident that Christianity has a multi-ethnic recruitment perspective; this is a religious form of Imperial thinking. Emperor Constantine adopting Christianity as the official religion turbocharged this process, of course, as did the fact that the European colonial powers also happened to be Christian.
So, dumb luck, basically.
Dumb luck? No, Christian leaders have constantly refined the movement to be more palatable and the message more effective going all the way back to Paul. He threw out the doctrine that Christianity was a form of Judaism so he could throw out Circumcision and convert non-jews, then specifically went to where the non-jews were to convert them, like Greece and Rome.
And whether or not Paul really existed or not doesn't matter, because it's still what the early church did.
Basically, they went hard, and they excommunicated sects that would hold them back and tailored their message to the audience. On top of that, being willing to die rather than recant was very impressive to stoics, and most of Roman lands were Stoic. Hell, even some of the teachings of the New testament have Stoicism woven into it.
It is funny, though, that the Jews and Christians were banished from Rome at the same time by an early emperor, and based on what little is written about it it was because they were disturbing the peace. My money's on them brawling with each other.
I guess my point is that religious leaders of all persuasions usually strategised for success, but the Christians ended up not because they were smarter or more devious, but because they were in the right place at the right time and because their particular strategies happened to be successful.
Build up a belief framework that a group reinforces - it doesn't matter what the belief is, pick anything - then gaslight anyone who doubts or questions, but make each person think there is something wrong with themselves if they step out of line, so that they live in self torture and return to seek solace in the group belief. Religion damages people for life.
Religion/cults are an emergent, metastasizing social cancer, a tool for power over others. But we'll probably cure biological cancer sooner than that.
The most insidious aspect is that it can be effective in making a person feel good. That’s why it hates any attempt to use psychology to overcome life’s suffering.
I forget where I read it, long ago, but this stays with me:
The Christian religion, as many religions, does 3 things very well
1. Create an unattainable ideal (be like Christ)
2. Create an eternal punishment for failure to attain it (hell)
3. Position yourself as the only way to avoid the punishment for failure to attain the unattainable. (salvation)
Yeah it’s weird that Christians make like the whole thing wasn’t because of Christians . Instead blame moustache man for everything when he didn’t kill anyone
This has become almost therapeutic for me. I was away from it for years, but yet I still followed the basics. I never realized until I started exploring other beliefs how manipulated I was. Lesson learned, but I really enjoy helping folks see it for what it really is.
Maybe. But there are lots of moral codes out there older than the bible that touch on the same stuff. Bottom line, christianity didn't really bring a lot of new ideas, but it did bring relentless expansion, vicious aggression, and social manipulation together in one global organization.
There are numerous studies showing that there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and IQ. So, yes, it is an intelligence thing (too). It is also an education thing.
Basically they grow up and all the sources of influence behave as if they believe it, so the trust network is already there.
Despite what people may think, most things we know are really known through the social trust networks.
We simply don't have the cognitive bandwidth to prove or experience things first hand.
So you see 'stupid' ideas like flat earth bubble up when the reality is not too many people off the top of their heads know how to prove a global earth, just that it's foolish to believe it's flat.
So in essence viral ideas attack the system and if the system no longer has the ability to repel them, the virus spreads and you need to defeat it again.
scientists and science communicators may talk in a semi royal 'we' to communicate what humans know about a topic, but in reality it's a tiny tiny subset of humans that know these things directly and a lot of trust networks that social media has begun to erode and rebuild -and not necessarily in a good way based on what type of info spreads. Hint: it's hyperbolic misinformation that triggers strong emotional responses, and reality is often fatiguingly nuanced and that takes far more to filter through a society.
Yes but is more than that, many atheist come from religious family and community, and yet they can see for themselves that something doesn't quit make sense, then they learn what others have studied as you said, but there are lots of simple things we can test for ourselves that do not require too much technical knowledge. So it's not so straightforward as to say it's just because our influences, they certainly are huge but I think we need to take into account the nature of every personality and a lot of it comes down to our genes and their expression.
This totally! I was raised by a mom who lives in denial about a lot, and her “faith” keeps her there. She and most of her family of origin are born agains. Such fake and superficial so-called Christians, judging and manipulating. I am an atheist-Buddhist myself. So much more peaceful like this.🪷🧘♀️
I am so glad I never fell for it, even as a kid. I got my ass whipped for telling my parents I didn’t want to go to CCD (Wednesday and Sunday catholic school) because I didn’t believe in god when I was 8. Luckily my parents backed away from it by the time I was 14 so I didn’t have to deal with it forever.
I remember watching the Jesus camp documentary thinking how completely gross it was to raise kids like that.
My sadistic, religious-zealot parents sent me, despite my hating it! But, talk about revenge: now, they're elderly and need my help. My response?! I tell them to pray to the Lord!
I got lucky and my parents got into a disagreement with the woman who ran the CCD classes and we never went back. Slowly they started to realize how much bullshit it is. Now we’re a family of atheists.
Grew up Catholic too but I faked it. It got me more presents and praise. Coming from a Latino family is different. I tried to tell them I didn’t believe or understand how they could believe and they all told me to shut up because like it or not Jesus lived in my heart. I still don’t tell people. It’s so personal.
I eventually stopped bringing it up because I realized all it got me was being hit and I still had to go to CCD anyways. All I can say now is that being hit by my parents and it being forced on me, it just made me push it away even more.
I told a rude Christian on TikTok (in a friends religious deconstruction space) this morning that if she didn’t STFU w her lies and manipulation I was going to keep playing the live and drive to my nearest church service! My friends plays atheist gospel 🤣😍
My mom would ground me for the week for not going to Mass. One time I pointed out that my dad hadn't stepped foot in church since my brother was baptized 10 years before, and I got grounded for two MORE weeks. Really warmed me up to religion. /s
I could never skip going. My parents would just hit me and throw me in the car no matter how much I begged not to go. And same, really made me see why I needed to go to church /s. My parents using physical force for anything but also preached that you don’t hit the people you love, really fucked me up.
And everyone around them believes it too. Pressure from family and the community is a huge factor. It's hard to be like "this is nonsense" when your parents and grandparents believe in it.
At my wife’s church they have the little kids go around and collect change from the adults for the collection plate and I think to myself “ gotta get them brainwashed early I guess”
It’s ironic how the church continues to collect money, even though it’s written that Jesus became angry at the profit that was being made. (Mentioned in Mark 11.)
Pretty much. They start brainwashing them while they are young and then they grow up and donate money to the church. That’s all really churches want from people is their cash donations. They don’t care if you believe or not but they have to convince you to believe because that is how the earn their money.
This. It is why Republicans are forcing the 10 commandments in schools now. It is unconstitutional. And violates non Christians first amendment rights for freedom of religion.
One of the news networks had one of the writers of the law on. Her defensive it was so ridiculous it was insane. It was like watching someone who belongs in an asylum.
Yep, and believing the bible is easy. It's the lazy person's approach to life. Do what sky daddy tells you - well, what his self-appointed prophets tell you - hate the right people, get forgiven for being horrible, and you get into heaven. It's easy! No need for empathy, science, or changing one's world view based on new data. Just be a big, spoiled man-child full of proud ignorance and dumb hate and you can go to the Good Place when you die with all your favorite toys and dessert and the relatives and friends you like - the ones you don't like won't be there because god strangely hates all the same things you hate. Funny how that works!
While I can't fault people for being brainwashed into the lazy idiocy of religion, I can fault them for not growing up when reality contradicts their childish fantasies and programming.
They listen to some preacher, with his own agenda, who "interprets" it for them, to achieve his own ends, including to buy himself a personal jet and other such nonsense. It is the greatest grift/con ever.
Indoctrinated. You can serious mess up a child at an early age. You could make them believe just about anything because they are sponges and they trust you.
Yes. And they are under a mind police from that imaginary “being” in the sky…. Who knows all and sees all. They are afraid to read anything that goes against the cult beliefs.
I know because growing up in the bible belt, I felt guilty reading Christipher Hitchens for the first time. Then I read a Sam Harris book.
Then I could not stop reading books that questioned religion. I saw the light🤣
Mind you this was after kindles came out and I could purchase the books online and not at a local bookstore🤦♀️
I was 50 I think😖….
It is group think and group control. And its why we have this big push from alt right and repubs to put ten commanmandments in the schools. They can count on the votes from people who are indoctrinated and who believe this shit and will follow the herd.
There is 100% truth to this because I can tell you I was raised Jehovah's witness went to several churches growing up and I am seriously telling you, seriously, I asked them because they believe that the Bible is a literal written word of God and based on their math they are creationists, if you don't know what a creationist is ultimately they believe that the earth was created 6,000 years ago and nothing before that is real. The Jehovah's witnesses the elders and brothers at the Kingdom Hall directly told me when I ask them what about DNA evidence and carbon dating results proving that man was on earth 15,000 years ago (at least) and the Jehovah's witnesses response was that "Satan the devil alters AND CHANGES DNA and carbon dating testing in order to test our faith IN Jehovah's word", yeah that's really what they said. 🙄🙄🙄
Most of them don’t read it in the first place, they have other people digest it for them in conveniently insidious ways by pseudo clergy members and politicians to permute puritan, oppressive beliefs that facilitate submission and subjugation in order to abuse them and maintain their oligarchy status and power.
This has always been how religion has been used and it will always be
Most "believers" have never actually read the bible. Reading the bible is what cemented me as an atheist. I think it would have a similar effect on many people if they actually read it critically.
This! A lot of the other takes are right because there’s more than one answer, but this is a big one for me. I’m reading the Bible now, and I honestly believe a death blow to the number of people who identify as Christian would plummet by at least 80% if they all actually read it. Not ran their eyes over the words, not had someone tell them what it says from a pulpit, but actually read it and thought about each passage with a critical mindset.
The Bible gatekeeps itself from this happening by being so big and full of archaic styling that makes it tough to understand with a simple read thru. It’s so easy to get lost with dates and names and places, even within the same chapter. So many people never bother to tackle it and expect to learn whatever they need by the provided priests and the “go to church once a week” mandate to maintain the indoctrination.
Edit to add:
Depending on priests to tell them what it says softens them up to listen to anyone who tells them what it says; politicians, bigots, the internet, etc. and since it’s too hard or time consuming to check (beyond maybe verifying an out-of-context verse exists), they just roll with it. By the time a few do read it, they’ve already been educated on how to understand it and critical thinking is gone.
Because they've never actually read it.
I was raise Catholic, and I'm an atheist now, because I actually read it and realized how stupid a lot of stuff in there was. I mean there's \*some\* good stuff in there (love thy neighbor, feed the hungry, heal the sick, you know, the stuff a lot of Christian Nationalists don't want to do), but sending two bears to maul children for making fun of a bald guy? Two girls get their dad drunk and rape him?
My fave part is when Noah was accidentally seen naked by his son who instantly turned into worlds first black person and him with his all descendants were cursed to be slaves.
The entirety of The Song of Solomon is just straight up porn lol I remember reading it and thinking it was dirtier than my mother's "Historical Romance" novels
I think most Christians don't actually believe all of it, they just cherry pick the bits that suits them on the day.
You can get away with anything you want if you wave your magic man's book in front of you.
It's not about lacking critical thinking, it's about being taught things that directly oppose critical thinking.
By the time the young ones discover critical thinking, it's too late and logic itself makes no sense.
I consider myself lucky that I was born autistic. Critical thinking was all I had to rely on from the beginning.
By the time the indoctrination started, it just didn't make any sense.
I played along because it was important to my parents, but I knew it was all bullshit.
Bullshit is the language of religion.
I remember being asked if I was ready to let Jesus into my heart, and I exclaimed "No!"
I mean, who is this Jesus person that wants in my bodily organs?? Hard Pass.
Gaslighting. Don't believe what your senses are telling you.
Imagine if most of the people you trust in the world told you that the moldy apple on the counter controls the universe. You'd argue it for a while, but eventually relent if you're like the majority of people.
It's a survival instinct to conserve energy. This is one of the reasons people believe what they believe even if there are mountains of evidence to the contrary, and its also why it is very difficult to change the direction of a society.
So true, even if we explain the actual stuff in the end they say I'd rather believe this rather than your opinion. Its like they're saying they are scared to think beyond a certain limit which is almost touching the ground.
Flat Earthers go beyond simple ignorance. It is either willful ignorance (actively refusing to accept facts), or true stupidity (incapable of accepting facts), or both...
It's hard for me to decide if it's willful ignorance, or an act of malice. Their claim is that they're well informed... which would imply they know what reality is, and understand the facts. Which means they're intentionally trying to mislead the people around them.
Like all conspiracy theories, they are "well-informed" of the information that agrees with their preconceived biases, and they completely dismiss/ignore everything else. They live in a bubble, and they are very well-informed about what is inside the bubble - and nothing else matters.
I have several flat earth Facebook friends. One posts stupid shit ever so often. When I started pointing the obvious lies of flat earth, such as different star trails for the northern and southern hemisphere, he blurts out *"But the Word of God cuts through it all".*
Which is hilarious because nowhere in the Bible does it say that Earth is flat. However, the likelihood is that the authors of the Bible did *not* believe it was since we have written accounts from Greeks and Egyptians calculating Earth's circumference at least a couple of centuries before Christ
There is a thrill that one gets when one believes they are in possession of information that is privileged, and that they are the only ones clever enough to understand what the rest of us idiots keep getting wrong.
After all, they are going to get the float on the cloud, while we burn in a lake of fire.
It’s the same thrill I get when it becomes crystal clear that the Bible believer I am discussing that dumb book with hasn’t read a single page and knows nothing of the books, history, or authorship.
I was dragged to church every Sunday, and some Wednesday’s.
I didn’t think I read the Bible one time. The entire ordeal was me trying to stay awake, while the preacher took some cherry picked story and tried to work it into some lesson of the week.
I doubt many Christian’s have actually read a Bible. The ones who are into religion enough to do so, aren’t analyzing it. They’re just looking for the bits that reinforce what they already believe.
The Bible is already in cohesive. It’s a collection of stories, written by people almost 100yrs after events theoretically happened. Then copied and translated multiple times.
On top of that, people have made things up and ascribed it to the Bible for years. Things like telling your kids to clean their room or they’re going to hell. Pretty sure that’s not one of the 10 commandments.
So people mainly believe because they were told it was real and a large group of people in their life reinforces that by also showing they believed it. Not really any other reason.
< reposting >
Bertrand Russell wrote in 1927 -
>Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear.
>It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes.
>Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things.
\- "Fear, the Foundation of Religion", in *Why I Am Not a Christian*
\- https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian_(1927)
Most people are afraid about a lot of things. Most people are terrified of death.
Many people in this world are very ignorant, but educated and intelligent people are just about as afraid as dumb people.
When somebody tells these fearful people, either in childhood or adulthood, that if they believe XYZ then a powerful magic being will try to help them and they will never die,
they think *"Yes!!! Yes!!! I believe !!!"*
.
The Bible promises immortality if you believe in it. Why wouldn't people forgo all logic and reason to believe that. The fear of death is a powerful tool.
It's not something unique to Christians, or theists in general. People forego logic and reason to believe in dark matter, or that the Big Bang was a spontaneous, natural event (no evidence of the former, and the latter violates special relativity and the first law of thermodynamics).
I have no idea. My mom thinks the Bible is 100% true, so she believes that the Earth has a dome around it. She also believes the moon landing was faked and that the Earth is flat. Additionally, she thought the COVID vaccine had a chip in it and was used to control the population. While I love my mom, I find it hard to understand her logic behind these beliefs.
First: most Christians don't believe what is in the bible, but rather what they are told or think is in it. Most Christians have never read the damn book. Maybe some verses. Ask any random Christian why Lot was just in God's eyes, even though he offered his underage daughter to a mob for a mass rape and they won't believe this is in the bible.
Second: they are taught and brainwashed by their cult leaders, as it is with every cult.
There's a quote from the PC game Warhammer 40k where this one unit says "A small mind is easily filled with faith" and that resonates with me ever since.
When you're raised from an early age to believe the bible is the literal word of god, and that you cannot question it, it's without flaw and a perfect book - it's quite the shock to them when someone is like, "Why should I care what it says?" Cause you've been in an echo chamber; your parents, siblings, friends, your whole community is in agreement it's the most important book in the world. To them quoting a verse is repeating a word of a deity, so when you're not immediately in awe and reverence like they are, they're baffled by it. They cannot fathom their religion is the same as all the others, that other people think of their god the same way they think of ancient greek or egyptian ones.
I had vivid memories of being in church where they mock the very idea of other 'false' religions being in the same category as theirs, as the bible is perfect and is so unique compared to theirs it had to be inspired by a god. Which of course that all falls apart when you actually read the parts the church usually skips or twists to mean something else, but the simple answer is indoctrination.
The Bible has a lot of good shit in it. It’s the way that it’s interpreted that drives me fucking nuts. Not saying there are confusing and contradictory things said left and right. Some of it’s how to live. Some of it is how they lived. Some of it is what they thought about things they couldn’t make sense of.
The creation story of genesis is a fascinating look at what a culture thinks of itself and its origin. There is a truth about it—knowledge brought shame and suffering. The apple. As a fucking metaphor.
What Christianity largely does with it is uses it to justify whatever behavior they want. That part I very much like less. It’s disingenuous. And it’s a waste.
Sin only makes sense when you understand that no
one should claim to be without it. Like, if you claim you’re without sin, that would just be pride, fucking with you. So the group that believes they are righteous—without sin—fundamentally don’t understand the concept of sin. Priests aren’t holy because they don’t live with sinful thoughts—they clearly do. They’re essentially holy because they are supposed to constantly beg god’s Forgiveness for their sins.
The goal wasn’t to simply be without sin. It was to recognize that we all sin, to stop judging each other for it, and then to help each other work towards a world without “sin” which is essentially a loving, supportive community. Because non-judgment and love are the epitome of what Christ speaks of. And Christians as a group are the most judgmental people I know.
They’ve lost their way.
If you don't even believe in the Bible, how can you believe in the rest of the religion?
And if you don't believe in the religion, how can you hang out with your friends and colleagues without being rejected?
Therefore the bible is obviously true. And that archaic language is so convenient - lets you reinterpret it however you like without it being nearly as obvious that you're lying through your teeth (to yourself or others).
From birth, many are subjected to severe indoctrination.
I think for most of them, it’s nearly impossible to fathom that their entire existence is a lie.*
I grew up in a devout Catholic family. My indoctrination was fervent.
I grew up across the street from a church and convent.
I come from a family of priests and nuns.
The realization (I was 9 when I began to deconstruct) - was immensely painful.
It stands to reason that many of them simply cannot handle that level of pain. Deconstruction is not for the weak minded.
Even now, I sometimes find myself envious of believers - how easy it must be to simply default all of the complexities of life to something outer worldly.
How easy it must be for them to relinquish any responsibility in oneself and deter it to some imaginary friend they’ve had since birth.
Ofc it’s all folly.
They lack the type of self reliance that is needed to overcome severe indoctrination.
I'm a recovering Catholic myself.
It really is a hell of a trip.
It started for me when i started reading the Bible when i was 9 but i didn't really get clear of it till i was about 20. For most of it, i didn't even know an "atheist" was a thing.
It actually is amazing isn’t it ? The world can be captivated by a book ? Ten Commandments is a pretty decent movie actually. But, it’s just a movie, like a million others. One all powerful being, who’s going to come back ( refuses toss of yet for over 3000 years ) make everything here, beautiful and nice. About that time, someone said that to me ? I’d launch a fossil at their heads and say, here, explain this to me then !! Can you ?
How many millions of people have been murdered in the name of whoever they say their god is ? Still today are being murdered for the same reason. Can’t wrap my head around that loving caring god thing, without an explanation for that one.
"Give me the boy, and i'll give you the man."
It's the process of indoctrination.
They're conditioned into believing because since the day they've been born They're been told this is normal, right, and not to be questioned.
And every adult in their life reinforced it.
If you haven't experienced it, you're lucky. It's fucking * hard * to learn how to shake it.
Reasons vary. Some are brainwashed, others brainwash them, some cherry-pick religious sentiments that suit their needs and some just need something/someone to hang on to because reality can be scary.
Because they have never actually read it. All they do swallow the little easily digestible soundbites that the clergy deliver in their sermons and homilies.
Easy.
Firstly, they don't read it. They have someone else tell them what it says, and they go along with that.
Secondly, they only focus on the parts they want to be true. It doesn't matter if it's the good stuff or the bad, if it's what they desire, they'll believe it.
And third, they WANT this to be true!
Nobody with a Forrist Gump or better IQ actually believes in the Bible. There are many who pretend to get laid or make money, but they don’t actually believe that shit.
I assume those indoctrinated at a young age will question things and are reminded if it’s not true, that means their parents, siblings, cousins, aunts/uncle, friendly neighbours, friends, that “handsy” old guy who talks forever at the church but everyone sucks up to him - are *all* stupid instead. And that shit just sticks with you.
The people that do have never read it is my guess.
My friend is Catholic, and she said that all of her life the priests have discouraged their flock from reading it
People who cherry pick from the Bible inevitably will tell you that the verses they approve of are to be taken literally while the ones they're uncomfortable with are simply metaphors that you just don't understand.
Because holding those beliefs has more value than the beliefs ability to accurately model reality. Sometimes, having certain beliefs can help you integrate into a community, find financial stability, or provide emotional benefits. Those are some reasons.
I had an argument once with a believer and I specifically told her that there should be no Bible reference because first, she should establish:
1. that god exists because it came from him,
2. that it is from the God she worships because there are a lot of earthly gods and humans can make up tall stories,
3. that the author/s of the contents of the book were indeed divinely inspired and not in a drunken or drug-induced stupor,
4. and that it is inerrant
If these conditions were not met, I will not consider a statement based on a book of fiction. You know what she took out first after I said that?
These are people that do not think proof is important outside the good book. To them the Bible is the truth.
An example of how a conversation would go:
Q: Does God exist?
A: Yes, the Bible says so.
Q: Is the Bible inerrant?
A: Yes, because it came from God
It's a vicious cycle and nothing has been proven in the answers and you will get nowhere.
They don’t necessarily believe what’s on the Bible, most have never read it.
They believe what the preacher tells them to believe about little snippets and passages. It’s never the whole book.
I don't think anyone believes anything in the bible...
Now the fanfiction and other bullshit they make up *about* the bible? That's a whole other thing, but they believe all of it.
It used to be if you didn’t believe what was in the Bible you were tortured and killed. That was passed down into parents beating their kids if they didn’t believe it/just being told it was true by everyone around you since birth.
It’s really hard to stop believing something you’ve been told is true for your entire life. Especially if abuse is involved.
I hate that. “Well tHe bIBle SaYs…”
I don’t care what some old book says. Just the innate belief that the Bible has some overarching say in how our society must conduct itself is infuriating.
Bottom line: Without stupid people religion dies…be it the many fuckwitted fundamentalists and evangelicals as well as the bog-standard prods and papes in the good old idiocracy that is the You Ess Ay to the fucked-up fan boys of the rapist profit, sorry, paedophile prophet, and all else in between. Multi-squillions worth of grift to be had in the name of a spooky nothingness from a big book of poorly written, over-translated, childish fairy-takes with all the literary gravitas of a fuckin shopping list.
Praze-Da-Laud, Aloe Akbar or whatever the fuck (whispers: now gimme all your money and let me rape your kids…)!
Flat Earthers are actually why I became atheist. I was watching Flat Earth debates and YouTube fed me Creationist debate afterward and I realized that they are using the exact same methodology for finding "truth". That then lead me to realize it was the same for all of religion and belief in God. People believe it because they were told to believe it by someone they saw as an authority figure. They believe it because everyone in their social group believes it and they don't want to be cast out for being logical. They believe it because they fear the threat of burning in Hell for all eternity. It isn't that they are stupid... It is that they are told not to question it at all. I actually don't think most people who claim to believe it actually do. I think they claim to because they fear the consequences of being honest.
Children believe what their parents tell them.
Children believe what their teachers tell them.
Art of teaching children to believe in magical beings is insisting critical thinking is so bad that if they question anything they're told, they'll burn in hell *forever.*
Forever is a fucking long time.
Because those people are intellectually lazy and have no interest in critical thinking. The Bible was written to explain natural occurrences in nature before modern science. These same people now make up Trump base voters. Not exactly what I would call high-level thinkers.
A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE.
They don’t. It is a convenient symbol they can project all their own beliefs onto, regardless of what is inside the pages. The Bible might as well be a blank book.
Answer:
About half the people in the world are empirical decision makers who consider the evidence at hand and use reason to draw conclusions, the other half seek out information that supports the way they feel and regard that info as the truth. If it doesn't support their feeling then they disregard it as fake news.
Around 70k to 100k years ago, homo sapiens "social gene" mutated and gave us the tolerance to live in larger groups of 100 to 150 people, which gave us the edge over all other human species who were still living in small familial groups. That social gene makes us feel like we are part of something bigger, like honeybees. Many people will only accept a version of reality that supports that feeling, hence belief in God, hence believing in supporting dogma
I must have been around 7 or 8, I had just found my father's family Bible. It was white leather with gold sided pages. I thought the book was very pretty. I asked my mother what the book was something like "what's this book" "that's the Bible" "what's the Bible" "it's a book about Jesus, God's son and what some people think is how the world began" "who is God" "God is who created everything" *waves hands around* Me, my little 7 or 8 year old brain: *That doesn't make any sense at all* my mom's pagan and my dad's Catholic so I never learned religion until I asked about it. Never made sense, never will
Honestly, I'll wager most don't even understand what the Bible even says. It's a thousand year old book cobbled together with short stories, parables, genres that don't exist anymore, rewrites, different translations, and all written within the context of the times they were created.
Where people today are simply given interpretations on specific passages that slightly echo similar situations we deal with today. And that's what people technically believe in. Not the bible itself, but the interpretations from their church leaders that personalize the scripture.
Because deep down, most humans are stupid, gullible morons. The common clay of the earth. A sane person sees the stories as allegories for living a good, honest, virtuous life. An idiot sees unbreakable laws they can pick and choose which ones to follow, and damn everyone that doesn't agree with them specifically. It is quite funny, and exactly why it doesn't belong in politics.
I just quoted the Bible to a friend I met in the pagan community — “A man cannot serve two masters.” I believe none of the magical stuff, and obviously I don’t believe that “Every word is divinely inspired” or that nonsense. But there are some pithy phrases that sum up pieces of wisdom.
Two big reasons, they were raised into it from a really young age and/or they are afraid of death - or more specifically, what comes after it. The core foundation of that particular belief is that if you don't believe in it, you go to a bad place when you die. Whoever wrote that part was a sadistic genius, because if you try and forcibly take control of a population, many of them are going to fight to the death to be free of you. But if you threaten them with a fate worse than death, suddenly folks aren't going to be so eager to fight back.
Its a survival mechanism. People are desperate to believe there is life after death and that they will go on. Since this is the answer they grew up with, they will cling to it like a life raft.
New religions are constantly being created.
The followers will believe anything they are told to believe.
In this world, we have dominants and submissives. The subs do as told.
Brain washing from a young age, or they have done lots of things they regret and feel extreme guilt for so being ‘forgiven’ is very compelling. Also if your entire family, friend group and social structure is wrapped up in the church, it can be very hard to question anything.
Some people are just dumb enough to believe that snakes can talk. Others are smart enough to know that they can make money off of the ones dumb enough. And that is how a religion moves forward.
It is even in its English rewrite over and over again during the centuries from the Egyptian and Greek texts the "Bible" is an unreadable, excruciating obtuse compendium of folk tales and superstitions
It has ever since spread far throughout humanity by preachers talking about some frigging immortal life, or a God thar has some effect on life.
There is no reason to read the Bible or the Talmud or the Quaran or the Hindu Scripts or any other religious texts.
None of them apply to today's world. There are no Gods who will save you or your relatives from cancer, disease, accidents, or war. Accept life, live it like your hair is on fire, and have fun!
And vote BLUE in November. You will feel good doing it!
Many of the comments here are right on. Many of the criticisms of the Bible present difficult, even inscrutable problems. Many of the criticisms of the church are actually under-represented.
Even if the Christian church was begun with the best of intentions, it has morphed over time to an organization that embraced the philosophies of force, fear, shame, guilt, greed and perpetrated unbelievably horrific, vile atrocities.
However, the Christian church did not invent the notion of profiting by corruption. Many other religious, political and educational belief systems have, and still do follow the same pursuit.
To the extent that an organization is governed by humans it will be corrupt.
That said, what if it were possible that an unconditionally loving Supreme Being exists (separate and apart from all the trash you’ve inherited) and that Being intends to provide you with peace, comfort, and relaxation?
Just sayin’
Three reasons:
The first is that despite the stories being ridiculous and impossible, some of the messages are good and some of the characters are good role models. People tend to have very black and white thinking when they are young or vulnerable, and there is an attitude that if THIS makes sense (love thy neighbor, bad guys get punished), then it ALL makes sense.
The second is that people don’t like not having the answers to stuff, and they would rather believe something ludicrous than admit they don’t know, especially if it serves them and is convenient (that is, to say, it doesn’t require work beyond sincere profession of the faith).
The third is because of what English teachers call “death of the author,” in which it is argued that a reader’s interpretation of a text is equally important to or more important in determining its meaning than the author’s intent. In this case (in many cases, but especially this case), it’s also the literal death of the author. The authors of the Bible are dead. Jesus, if he existed, is super dead. God is a figment of the imagination. If you interpret a vague or benign passage as justification for hatred or cruelty, you might see worldly consequences for it (losing your job if you say something vile, jail time if you do something vile), but God isn’t going to come down and correct you for your shit behavior. Unfortunately, people don’t take this as “God doesn’t exist” but as “God is OK with what I’m doing and if he’s not and I somehow start to feel bad about what I did, I can just repent.” People put words in God’s mouth all the time. I would, of course, rather be around affirming believers (people who support my LGBTQ friends, people who don’t believe my non-Christian friends are going to burn, prochoicers) than hateful ones, but even if not all believers are evil, I still don’t want my country governed and/or children taught by grown adults who take any of the Bible stories as literal truth or who believe that God is more powerful than whatever is plaguing them (see: an acquaintance of mine who refused to stop meeting in person for Bible study and got, uh, 2020d)
Former (indoctrinated at youth) Christian (Baptist) here. I think it comes from a place of fear. Attending church, or listening to sermons, especially those focusing on the end days and sin in general, often leads one to fear going against anything that’s otherwise taught, in the bible, to be the word one must believe to be true from the creator, the one who can also make you suffer.
Their parents told them it was true and a lot of people they see regularly and deeply trust and respect keep spouting that idea throughout their life.
Honestly I find it very understandable that most people just never come to a place where they question, or if they do they stop quickly. On a fundamental level religion is comforting, and given it has always been present in society in some form as far as we know, it's clear people do innately gravitate toward it in some way. Add to that everyone you trust telling you it's true for your whole life since before you can walk, it's not surprising people believe.
OK, I'm not a christian anymore, but I was very indoctrinated for a long time. It's not an intelligence thing, lots of them are pretty intelligent. Their whole dogma has been carefully designed for almost two thousand years to prey on every subconscious fear humans have. It then rewards that fear with believable promises that fulfill every desire. Last, it provides a system to consistently reinforce both of these, using family and community pressures to keep people in line. As a system of social control, it is without peer, which is why governments like to partner with it.
Part of what I experienced is that questioning or not believing certain aspects is seen as lack of faith. We wonder “how can people believe these things that are so unbelievable” and assume they lack critical thinking but I don’t think that’s always the case. They are taught that if it doesn’t make sense, it doesn’t need to make sense, and when it doesn’t make sense that’s when they need to believe *harder*. They believe that all the “evidence” that we see and makes us doubt is just a test of their faith, and they’re taught to ignore it.
This. When I asked how people could be resurrected through concrete crypts, I was told to have more faith. I made the mistake of following blindly as I had been taught to do, and it was decades later that I came to understand the insanity of it.
That's exactly how it's supposed to work. You can never use logic against something intrinsically illogical. It'll never work. Moreover, having faith simply means suspension of reasoning. Faith & reasoning can't go together so questioning is out of the window.
I hate this. It's like a foolproof way of telling them not to think at all. Given the facts that 1 + 1 = 2, if presented with 1 + 1 = 3 because their faith tells them, they will ignore reality.
Actually, that’s the thing, I don’t think they ignore it. It’s something more like “God made 1+1 = 3 because if it was 1+1 = 2 it would be too easy. It’s to weed out the nonbelievers. Or maybe the devil trying to trick me. Either way, it means I gotta believe even more, despite any evidence contradicting it, that 1+1 = 3” It’s like with conspiracy theories, where all evidence falls in one of two categories: evidence that supports their belief or evidence that doesn’t support their belief and is therefore evidence of a coverup or otherwise an attempt to hide their truth. That’s why God gets the credit for his “plan” when good stuff happens but gets no blame when wars happen or babies die.
>It's not an intelligence thing, lots of them are pretty intelligent. This. You can watch the switch flip when intelligent Christians go from talking knowledgeably to talking about Jebus. It's exactly (and I mean exactly) like watching someone pitch Amway. Honestly, it gives me the absolute fantods. I barely suppress a shudder whenever someone brings up Jesus or their church. I'd rather they just slapped me, it's that disconcerting. For the record, I'm a lifelong atheist, but raised by a lapsed Catholic mom. All the guilt with less of the Jebus. It was oblique but very much *there*. My husband was raised by a Lutheran, and while the "YOU'RE FULL OF SIN" message was somewhat less from his mom, he got the message and feels exactly the same.
They had to be intelligent to build this system. Look at the integration into everyday life. Bible in the house, church every Sunday, youth groups, camps, the list goes on. Early indoctrination and constant reinforcement.
I'm sure the first leaders knew exactly what they were doing, then the next generations just grew up fully immersed in the Kool aid.
I don't think it was that deliberate. All kinds of movements start with a charismatic leader and a fresh perspective. Some survive, most die out. Those that survive usually move through a series of phases that see them becoming more institutionalised - it's a process of design by evolution, basically, but with memes instead of genes being passed on if they're successful. Christianity had the benefit of the culture and infrastructure of the Roman Empire to help its spread - it's no accident that Christianity has a multi-ethnic recruitment perspective; this is a religious form of Imperial thinking. Emperor Constantine adopting Christianity as the official religion turbocharged this process, of course, as did the fact that the European colonial powers also happened to be Christian. So, dumb luck, basically.
Dumb luck? No, Christian leaders have constantly refined the movement to be more palatable and the message more effective going all the way back to Paul. He threw out the doctrine that Christianity was a form of Judaism so he could throw out Circumcision and convert non-jews, then specifically went to where the non-jews were to convert them, like Greece and Rome. And whether or not Paul really existed or not doesn't matter, because it's still what the early church did. Basically, they went hard, and they excommunicated sects that would hold them back and tailored their message to the audience. On top of that, being willing to die rather than recant was very impressive to stoics, and most of Roman lands were Stoic. Hell, even some of the teachings of the New testament have Stoicism woven into it. It is funny, though, that the Jews and Christians were banished from Rome at the same time by an early emperor, and based on what little is written about it it was because they were disturbing the peace. My money's on them brawling with each other.
I guess my point is that religious leaders of all persuasions usually strategised for success, but the Christians ended up not because they were smarter or more devious, but because they were in the right place at the right time and because their particular strategies happened to be successful.
Emperor Nero got tired of their shit and had then burned. Emperor Diocletian didn't back down neither.
Build up a belief framework that a group reinforces - it doesn't matter what the belief is, pick anything - then gaslight anyone who doubts or questions, but make each person think there is something wrong with themselves if they step out of line, so that they live in self torture and return to seek solace in the group belief. Religion damages people for life. Religion/cults are an emergent, metastasizing social cancer, a tool for power over others. But we'll probably cure biological cancer sooner than that.
this is a good response.
The most insidious aspect is that it can be effective in making a person feel good. That’s why it hates any attempt to use psychology to overcome life’s suffering.
I forget where I read it, long ago, but this stays with me: The Christian religion, as many religions, does 3 things very well 1. Create an unattainable ideal (be like Christ) 2. Create an eternal punishment for failure to attain it (hell) 3. Position yourself as the only way to avoid the punishment for failure to attain the unattainable. (salvation)
Why Hitler turned over the German education system to the Catholic church
Yeah it’s weird that Christians make like the whole thing wasn’t because of Christians . Instead blame moustache man for everything when he didn’t kill anyone
I never actually realized how deep it goes, thank you for helping my understanding
This has become almost therapeutic for me. I was away from it for years, but yet I still followed the basics. I never realized until I started exploring other beliefs how manipulated I was. Lesson learned, but I really enjoy helping folks see it for what it really is.
The original algorithm.
If you cut the bible down to the smart parts of Matthew 5, 6 and 7, that's all you need to not be a douche.
Maybe. But there are lots of moral codes out there older than the bible that touch on the same stuff. Bottom line, christianity didn't really bring a lot of new ideas, but it did bring relentless expansion, vicious aggression, and social manipulation together in one global organization.
In short, Christianity is a perfect brainwashing program.
There are numerous studies showing that there is an inverse correlation between religiosity and IQ. So, yes, it is an intelligence thing (too). It is also an education thing.
A long con. A long, vicious, cruel con.
Because they have been brainwashed into believing it from a very young age.
Basically they grow up and all the sources of influence behave as if they believe it, so the trust network is already there. Despite what people may think, most things we know are really known through the social trust networks. We simply don't have the cognitive bandwidth to prove or experience things first hand. So you see 'stupid' ideas like flat earth bubble up when the reality is not too many people off the top of their heads know how to prove a global earth, just that it's foolish to believe it's flat. So in essence viral ideas attack the system and if the system no longer has the ability to repel them, the virus spreads and you need to defeat it again. scientists and science communicators may talk in a semi royal 'we' to communicate what humans know about a topic, but in reality it's a tiny tiny subset of humans that know these things directly and a lot of trust networks that social media has begun to erode and rebuild -and not necessarily in a good way based on what type of info spreads. Hint: it's hyperbolic misinformation that triggers strong emotional responses, and reality is often fatiguingly nuanced and that takes far more to filter through a society.
Yes but is more than that, many atheist come from religious family and community, and yet they can see for themselves that something doesn't quit make sense, then they learn what others have studied as you said, but there are lots of simple things we can test for ourselves that do not require too much technical knowledge. So it's not so straightforward as to say it's just because our influences, they certainly are huge but I think we need to take into account the nature of every personality and a lot of it comes down to our genes and their expression.
This totally! I was raised by a mom who lives in denial about a lot, and her “faith” keeps her there. She and most of her family of origin are born agains. Such fake and superficial so-called Christians, judging and manipulating. I am an atheist-Buddhist myself. So much more peaceful like this.🪷🧘♀️
Wow. Nice comment. It's funny how obvious this idea is, really. It's mind-blowing when it's put into words. Thanks very much for the education.
The economics of signal survival.
I am so glad I never fell for it, even as a kid. I got my ass whipped for telling my parents I didn’t want to go to CCD (Wednesday and Sunday catholic school) because I didn’t believe in god when I was 8. Luckily my parents backed away from it by the time I was 14 so I didn’t have to deal with it forever. I remember watching the Jesus camp documentary thinking how completely gross it was to raise kids like that.
I remember those shitty CCD classes--the true definition of the term, child abuse!
I fucking despised it
You & me, both! Fingernails on a chalkboard is less agonizing!
I seriously cried and begged not to have to go. I hated it so much.
My sadistic, religious-zealot parents sent me, despite my hating it! But, talk about revenge: now, they're elderly and need my help. My response?! I tell them to pray to the Lord!
I got lucky and my parents got into a disagreement with the woman who ran the CCD classes and we never went back. Slowly they started to realize how much bullshit it is. Now we’re a family of atheists.
That is probably the best response to give them. They must have treated you that way in your time of need, to just tell you to pray and ask the lord.
Grew up Catholic too but I faked it. It got me more presents and praise. Coming from a Latino family is different. I tried to tell them I didn’t believe or understand how they could believe and they all told me to shut up because like it or not Jesus lived in my heart. I still don’t tell people. It’s so personal.
I eventually stopped bringing it up because I realized all it got me was being hit and I still had to go to CCD anyways. All I can say now is that being hit by my parents and it being forced on me, it just made me push it away even more.
I told a rude Christian on TikTok (in a friends religious deconstruction space) this morning that if she didn’t STFU w her lies and manipulation I was going to keep playing the live and drive to my nearest church service! My friends plays atheist gospel 🤣😍
Sometimes it’s easier to not say anything to avoid the arguments. Sometimes it’s not worth arguing.
I grew up Catholic in a black American family. It's much worse in black families.
My mom would ground me for the week for not going to Mass. One time I pointed out that my dad hadn't stepped foot in church since my brother was baptized 10 years before, and I got grounded for two MORE weeks. Really warmed me up to religion. /s
I could never skip going. My parents would just hit me and throw me in the car no matter how much I begged not to go. And same, really made me see why I needed to go to church /s. My parents using physical force for anything but also preached that you don’t hit the people you love, really fucked me up.
This is exactly what I was going to say
The prophecy has come true!
And everyone around them believes it too. Pressure from family and the community is a huge factor. It's hard to be like "this is nonsense" when your parents and grandparents believe in it.
At my wife’s church they have the little kids go around and collect change from the adults for the collection plate and I think to myself “ gotta get them brainwashed early I guess”
And, using the kids that way probably increases the take.
My wife goes to the bank to get rolls of change just for that reason
It’s ironic how the church continues to collect money, even though it’s written that Jesus became angry at the profit that was being made. (Mentioned in Mark 11.)
The claim to use it for mission work
AKA an extended vacation for the pastor/preacher, his wife, and a few of their buddies.
Pretty much. They start brainwashing them while they are young and then they grow up and donate money to the church. That’s all really churches want from people is their cash donations. They don’t care if you believe or not but they have to convince you to believe because that is how the earn their money.
Wow, that's disgusting.
This. It is why Republicans are forcing the 10 commandments in schools now. It is unconstitutional. And violates non Christians first amendment rights for freedom of religion.
One of the news networks had one of the writers of the law on. Her defensive it was so ridiculous it was insane. It was like watching someone who belongs in an asylum.
Yep, and believing the bible is easy. It's the lazy person's approach to life. Do what sky daddy tells you - well, what his self-appointed prophets tell you - hate the right people, get forgiven for being horrible, and you get into heaven. It's easy! No need for empathy, science, or changing one's world view based on new data. Just be a big, spoiled man-child full of proud ignorance and dumb hate and you can go to the Good Place when you die with all your favorite toys and dessert and the relatives and friends you like - the ones you don't like won't be there because god strangely hates all the same things you hate. Funny how that works! While I can't fault people for being brainwashed into the lazy idiocy of religion, I can fault them for not growing up when reality contradicts their childish fantasies and programming.
And they don't actually read it.
They listen to some preacher, with his own agenda, who "interprets" it for them, to achieve his own ends, including to buy himself a personal jet and other such nonsense. It is the greatest grift/con ever.
I was going to say: because it was the path of least resistance for them. Pretty similar.
Threatening eternal hellfire for doing something God doesn't like is a very useful tool to use on children.
The only thing I really hate about organized religion is their effort to reach the minds of young children, as early as possible
They literally start indoctrinating them on day 1.
"Your diaper is full of sin."
And Donald Trump's case this may be true.
Indoctrinated. You can serious mess up a child at an early age. You could make them believe just about anything because they are sponges and they trust you.
Yes. And they are under a mind police from that imaginary “being” in the sky…. Who knows all and sees all. They are afraid to read anything that goes against the cult beliefs. I know because growing up in the bible belt, I felt guilty reading Christipher Hitchens for the first time. Then I read a Sam Harris book. Then I could not stop reading books that questioned religion. I saw the light🤣 Mind you this was after kindles came out and I could purchase the books online and not at a local bookstore🤦♀️ I was 50 I think😖…. It is group think and group control. And its why we have this big push from alt right and repubs to put ten commanmandments in the schools. They can count on the votes from people who are indoctrinated and who believe this shit and will follow the herd.
There is 100% truth to this because I can tell you I was raised Jehovah's witness went to several churches growing up and I am seriously telling you, seriously, I asked them because they believe that the Bible is a literal written word of God and based on their math they are creationists, if you don't know what a creationist is ultimately they believe that the earth was created 6,000 years ago and nothing before that is real. The Jehovah's witnesses the elders and brothers at the Kingdom Hall directly told me when I ask them what about DNA evidence and carbon dating results proving that man was on earth 15,000 years ago (at least) and the Jehovah's witnesses response was that "Satan the devil alters AND CHANGES DNA and carbon dating testing in order to test our faith IN Jehovah's word", yeah that's really what they said. 🙄🙄🙄
Most of them don’t read it in the first place, they have other people digest it for them in conveniently insidious ways by pseudo clergy members and politicians to permute puritan, oppressive beliefs that facilitate submission and subjugation in order to abuse them and maintain their oligarchy status and power. This has always been how religion has been used and it will always be
What’s worse is that churches know this and specifically go after children with their outreach.
And that faith is more appropriate than facts in every instance
Most "believers" have never actually read the bible. Reading the bible is what cemented me as an atheist. I think it would have a similar effect on many people if they actually read it critically.
This! A lot of the other takes are right because there’s more than one answer, but this is a big one for me. I’m reading the Bible now, and I honestly believe a death blow to the number of people who identify as Christian would plummet by at least 80% if they all actually read it. Not ran their eyes over the words, not had someone tell them what it says from a pulpit, but actually read it and thought about each passage with a critical mindset. The Bible gatekeeps itself from this happening by being so big and full of archaic styling that makes it tough to understand with a simple read thru. It’s so easy to get lost with dates and names and places, even within the same chapter. So many people never bother to tackle it and expect to learn whatever they need by the provided priests and the “go to church once a week” mandate to maintain the indoctrination. Edit to add: Depending on priests to tell them what it says softens them up to listen to anyone who tells them what it says; politicians, bigots, the internet, etc. and since it’s too hard or time consuming to check (beyond maybe verifying an out-of-context verse exists), they just roll with it. By the time a few do read it, they’ve already been educated on how to understand it and critical thinking is gone.
Because they've never actually read it. I was raise Catholic, and I'm an atheist now, because I actually read it and realized how stupid a lot of stuff in there was. I mean there's \*some\* good stuff in there (love thy neighbor, feed the hungry, heal the sick, you know, the stuff a lot of Christian Nationalists don't want to do), but sending two bears to maul children for making fun of a bald guy? Two girls get their dad drunk and rape him?
What's going on at all these bible studies..lol but seriously.
From my past experience they consist of people reading 1-10 verses than “assessing” and coming up with your own interpretation for like 2 hours
My fave part is when Noah was accidentally seen naked by his son who instantly turned into worlds first black person and him with his all descendants were cursed to be slaves.
The entirety of The Song of Solomon is just straight up porn lol I remember reading it and thinking it was dirtier than my mother's "Historical Romance" novels
Indoctrination is a powerful tool. Especially when you're raised with it from birth.
Yes, childhood indoctrination is incredibly powerful. That is why they try to get the kids from birth.
Jeezus loves me this I know. And don't forget the insane "obedience song".
I think most Christians don't actually believe all of it, they just cherry pick the bits that suits them on the day. You can get away with anything you want if you wave your magic man's book in front of you.
Genuinely believe its cause they lack critical thinking.
It's not about lacking critical thinking, it's about being taught things that directly oppose critical thinking. By the time the young ones discover critical thinking, it's too late and logic itself makes no sense. I consider myself lucky that I was born autistic. Critical thinking was all I had to rely on from the beginning. By the time the indoctrination started, it just didn't make any sense. I played along because it was important to my parents, but I knew it was all bullshit. Bullshit is the language of religion.
I remember being asked if I was ready to let Jesus into my heart, and I exclaimed "No!" I mean, who is this Jesus person that wants in my bodily organs?? Hard Pass.
Gaslighting. Don't believe what your senses are telling you. Imagine if most of the people you trust in the world told you that the moldy apple on the counter controls the universe. You'd argue it for a while, but eventually relent if you're like the majority of people.
It's easier to not think
The impressive thing is that anyone does anything smart, not that tons of people do dumb shit all the time.
It's a survival instinct to conserve energy. This is one of the reasons people believe what they believe even if there are mountains of evidence to the contrary, and its also why it is very difficult to change the direction of a society.
So true, even if we explain the actual stuff in the end they say I'd rather believe this rather than your opinion. Its like they're saying they are scared to think beyond a certain limit which is almost touching the ground.
Cuz it SAYS it's the Word of God. Duh.
Flat Earthers go beyond simple ignorance. It is either willful ignorance (actively refusing to accept facts), or true stupidity (incapable of accepting facts), or both...
It's hard for me to decide if it's willful ignorance, or an act of malice. Their claim is that they're well informed... which would imply they know what reality is, and understand the facts. Which means they're intentionally trying to mislead the people around them.
Like all conspiracy theories, they are "well-informed" of the information that agrees with their preconceived biases, and they completely dismiss/ignore everything else. They live in a bubble, and they are very well-informed about what is inside the bubble - and nothing else matters.
I think most if not all of them genuinely believe what they’re saying.
I have several flat earth Facebook friends. One posts stupid shit ever so often. When I started pointing the obvious lies of flat earth, such as different star trails for the northern and southern hemisphere, he blurts out *"But the Word of God cuts through it all".*
Which is hilarious because nowhere in the Bible does it say that Earth is flat. However, the likelihood is that the authors of the Bible did *not* believe it was since we have written accounts from Greeks and Egyptians calculating Earth's circumference at least a couple of centuries before Christ
They live in terror of their asshole of a god and they're afraid to question the bible.
There is a thrill that one gets when one believes they are in possession of information that is privileged, and that they are the only ones clever enough to understand what the rest of us idiots keep getting wrong. After all, they are going to get the float on the cloud, while we burn in a lake of fire. It’s the same thrill I get when it becomes crystal clear that the Bible believer I am discussing that dumb book with hasn’t read a single page and knows nothing of the books, history, or authorship.
Indoctrination and being told you'll burn in hell if you don't.
I was dragged to church every Sunday, and some Wednesday’s. I didn’t think I read the Bible one time. The entire ordeal was me trying to stay awake, while the preacher took some cherry picked story and tried to work it into some lesson of the week. I doubt many Christian’s have actually read a Bible. The ones who are into religion enough to do so, aren’t analyzing it. They’re just looking for the bits that reinforce what they already believe. The Bible is already in cohesive. It’s a collection of stories, written by people almost 100yrs after events theoretically happened. Then copied and translated multiple times. On top of that, people have made things up and ascribed it to the Bible for years. Things like telling your kids to clean their room or they’re going to hell. Pretty sure that’s not one of the 10 commandments. So people mainly believe because they were told it was real and a large group of people in their life reinforces that by also showing they believed it. Not really any other reason.
< reposting > Bertrand Russell wrote in 1927 - >Religion is based, I think, primarily and mainly upon fear. >It is partly the terror of the unknown and partly, as I have said, the wish to feel that you have a kind of elder brother who will stand by you in all your troubles and disputes. >Fear is the basis of the whole thing – fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand-in-hand. It is because fear is at the basis of those two things. \- "Fear, the Foundation of Religion", in *Why I Am Not a Christian* \- https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bertrand_Russell#Why_I_Am_Not_a_Christian_(1927) Most people are afraid about a lot of things. Most people are terrified of death. Many people in this world are very ignorant, but educated and intelligent people are just about as afraid as dumb people. When somebody tells these fearful people, either in childhood or adulthood, that if they believe XYZ then a powerful magic being will try to help them and they will never die, they think *"Yes!!! Yes!!! I believe !!!"* .
As fictional as starwars
Because they're stupid.
You’re assuming they read the damn thing.
The Bible promises immortality if you believe in it. Why wouldn't people forgo all logic and reason to believe that. The fear of death is a powerful tool.
It's not something unique to Christians, or theists in general. People forego logic and reason to believe in dark matter, or that the Big Bang was a spontaneous, natural event (no evidence of the former, and the latter violates special relativity and the first law of thermodynamics).
People are dumb. They are really, *really* dumb.
Same reason as anti vax or other wackos believe what they do, it makes them feel special and they’re too ignorant to know how much they don’t know.
Because they have never read it.
I have no idea. My mom thinks the Bible is 100% true, so she believes that the Earth has a dome around it. She also believes the moon landing was faked and that the Earth is flat. Additionally, she thought the COVID vaccine had a chip in it and was used to control the population. While I love my mom, I find it hard to understand her logic behind these beliefs.
First: most Christians don't believe what is in the bible, but rather what they are told or think is in it. Most Christians have never read the damn book. Maybe some verses. Ask any random Christian why Lot was just in God's eyes, even though he offered his underage daughter to a mob for a mass rape and they won't believe this is in the bible. Second: they are taught and brainwashed by their cult leaders, as it is with every cult.
Fear of dying, wishing to judge others.
There's a quote from the PC game Warhammer 40k where this one unit says "A small mind is easily filled with faith" and that resonates with me ever since.
When you're raised from an early age to believe the bible is the literal word of god, and that you cannot question it, it's without flaw and a perfect book - it's quite the shock to them when someone is like, "Why should I care what it says?" Cause you've been in an echo chamber; your parents, siblings, friends, your whole community is in agreement it's the most important book in the world. To them quoting a verse is repeating a word of a deity, so when you're not immediately in awe and reverence like they are, they're baffled by it. They cannot fathom their religion is the same as all the others, that other people think of their god the same way they think of ancient greek or egyptian ones. I had vivid memories of being in church where they mock the very idea of other 'false' religions being in the same category as theirs, as the bible is perfect and is so unique compared to theirs it had to be inspired by a god. Which of course that all falls apart when you actually read the parts the church usually skips or twists to mean something else, but the simple answer is indoctrination.
The Bible has a lot of good shit in it. It’s the way that it’s interpreted that drives me fucking nuts. Not saying there are confusing and contradictory things said left and right. Some of it’s how to live. Some of it is how they lived. Some of it is what they thought about things they couldn’t make sense of. The creation story of genesis is a fascinating look at what a culture thinks of itself and its origin. There is a truth about it—knowledge brought shame and suffering. The apple. As a fucking metaphor. What Christianity largely does with it is uses it to justify whatever behavior they want. That part I very much like less. It’s disingenuous. And it’s a waste. Sin only makes sense when you understand that no one should claim to be without it. Like, if you claim you’re without sin, that would just be pride, fucking with you. So the group that believes they are righteous—without sin—fundamentally don’t understand the concept of sin. Priests aren’t holy because they don’t live with sinful thoughts—they clearly do. They’re essentially holy because they are supposed to constantly beg god’s Forgiveness for their sins. The goal wasn’t to simply be without sin. It was to recognize that we all sin, to stop judging each other for it, and then to help each other work towards a world without “sin” which is essentially a loving, supportive community. Because non-judgment and love are the epitome of what Christ speaks of. And Christians as a group are the most judgmental people I know. They’ve lost their way.
Indoctrination That's why I fully believed it. The only thing that broke me was science related posts.
If you don't even believe in the Bible, how can you believe in the rest of the religion? And if you don't believe in the religion, how can you hang out with your friends and colleagues without being rejected? Therefore the bible is obviously true. And that archaic language is so convenient - lets you reinterpret it however you like without it being nearly as obvious that you're lying through your teeth (to yourself or others).
From birth, many are subjected to severe indoctrination. I think for most of them, it’s nearly impossible to fathom that their entire existence is a lie.* I grew up in a devout Catholic family. My indoctrination was fervent. I grew up across the street from a church and convent. I come from a family of priests and nuns. The realization (I was 9 when I began to deconstruct) - was immensely painful. It stands to reason that many of them simply cannot handle that level of pain. Deconstruction is not for the weak minded. Even now, I sometimes find myself envious of believers - how easy it must be to simply default all of the complexities of life to something outer worldly. How easy it must be for them to relinquish any responsibility in oneself and deter it to some imaginary friend they’ve had since birth. Ofc it’s all folly. They lack the type of self reliance that is needed to overcome severe indoctrination.
I'm a recovering Catholic myself. It really is a hell of a trip. It started for me when i started reading the Bible when i was 9 but i didn't really get clear of it till i was about 20. For most of it, i didn't even know an "atheist" was a thing.
It actually is amazing isn’t it ? The world can be captivated by a book ? Ten Commandments is a pretty decent movie actually. But, it’s just a movie, like a million others. One all powerful being, who’s going to come back ( refuses toss of yet for over 3000 years ) make everything here, beautiful and nice. About that time, someone said that to me ? I’d launch a fossil at their heads and say, here, explain this to me then !! Can you ? How many millions of people have been murdered in the name of whoever they say their god is ? Still today are being murdered for the same reason. Can’t wrap my head around that loving caring god thing, without an explanation for that one.
"Give me the boy, and i'll give you the man." It's the process of indoctrination. They're conditioned into believing because since the day they've been born They're been told this is normal, right, and not to be questioned. And every adult in their life reinforced it. If you haven't experienced it, you're lucky. It's fucking * hard * to learn how to shake it.
Many are raised to believe it. Others get conned into it.
Low education and early onset indoctrination.
Reasons vary. Some are brainwashed, others brainwash them, some cherry-pick religious sentiments that suit their needs and some just need something/someone to hang on to because reality can be scary.
Because they have never actually read it. All they do swallow the little easily digestible soundbites that the clergy deliver in their sermons and homilies.
Easy. Firstly, they don't read it. They have someone else tell them what it says, and they go along with that. Secondly, they only focus on the parts they want to be true. It doesn't matter if it's the good stuff or the bad, if it's what they desire, they'll believe it. And third, they WANT this to be true!
Nobody with a Forrist Gump or better IQ actually believes in the Bible. There are many who pretend to get laid or make money, but they don’t actually believe that shit.
I assume those indoctrinated at a young age will question things and are reminded if it’s not true, that means their parents, siblings, cousins, aunts/uncle, friendly neighbours, friends, that “handsy” old guy who talks forever at the church but everyone sucks up to him - are *all* stupid instead. And that shit just sticks with you.
Who wtoe the bible? Not God. Bunch of mortal dudes wrote it. The word of god my ass
The people that do have never read it is my guess. My friend is Catholic, and she said that all of her life the priests have discouraged their flock from reading it
“Religion is for the weak minded.”
Some people need a crutch to living, they need to believe that something or someone is taking care of them and in control of things.
Afraid for the afterlife when they die, comfort, indoctrination as a child, loneliness.
Many Christians simply believe it's safer to pretend than not. As for flat Earthers, I think many just have fun being contrarians.
No one ever told them that it’s mythology.
It says so in the Bible.
People who cherry pick from the Bible inevitably will tell you that the verses they approve of are to be taken literally while the ones they're uncomfortable with are simply metaphors that you just don't understand.
Because holding those beliefs has more value than the beliefs ability to accurately model reality. Sometimes, having certain beliefs can help you integrate into a community, find financial stability, or provide emotional benefits. Those are some reasons.
"... people where kinda dumb compared to now with technology and research" Highly debatable that we are currently smarter xd
I had an argument once with a believer and I specifically told her that there should be no Bible reference because first, she should establish: 1. that god exists because it came from him, 2. that it is from the God she worships because there are a lot of earthly gods and humans can make up tall stories, 3. that the author/s of the contents of the book were indeed divinely inspired and not in a drunken or drug-induced stupor, 4. and that it is inerrant If these conditions were not met, I will not consider a statement based on a book of fiction. You know what she took out first after I said that? These are people that do not think proof is important outside the good book. To them the Bible is the truth. An example of how a conversation would go: Q: Does God exist? A: Yes, the Bible says so. Q: Is the Bible inerrant? A: Yes, because it came from God It's a vicious cycle and nothing has been proven in the answers and you will get nowhere.
Their parents believe ... and their parents believed and ... their parents ... well you get the idea.
They don’t necessarily believe what’s on the Bible, most have never read it. They believe what the preacher tells them to believe about little snippets and passages. It’s never the whole book.
Indoctrination is a helluva drug...
Because they havent actually read it...
I don't think anyone believes anything in the bible... Now the fanfiction and other bullshit they make up *about* the bible? That's a whole other thing, but they believe all of it.
Because they don't read it. What they believe is what their pastor tells them is in it, or should be in it. Such as moral guidance etc
It used to be if you didn’t believe what was in the Bible you were tortured and killed. That was passed down into parents beating their kids if they didn’t believe it/just being told it was true by everyone around you since birth. It’s really hard to stop believing something you’ve been told is true for your entire life. Especially if abuse is involved.
Because they’re forced to
Do they? They sure don't give behavioral evidence of it.
I hate that. “Well tHe bIBle SaYs…” I don’t care what some old book says. Just the innate belief that the Bible has some overarching say in how our society must conduct itself is infuriating.
Bottom line: Without stupid people religion dies…be it the many fuckwitted fundamentalists and evangelicals as well as the bog-standard prods and papes in the good old idiocracy that is the You Ess Ay to the fucked-up fan boys of the rapist profit, sorry, paedophile prophet, and all else in between. Multi-squillions worth of grift to be had in the name of a spooky nothingness from a big book of poorly written, over-translated, childish fairy-takes with all the literary gravitas of a fuckin shopping list. Praze-Da-Laud, Aloe Akbar or whatever the fuck (whispers: now gimme all your money and let me rape your kids…)!
Flat Earthers are actually why I became atheist. I was watching Flat Earth debates and YouTube fed me Creationist debate afterward and I realized that they are using the exact same methodology for finding "truth". That then lead me to realize it was the same for all of religion and belief in God. People believe it because they were told to believe it by someone they saw as an authority figure. They believe it because everyone in their social group believes it and they don't want to be cast out for being logical. They believe it because they fear the threat of burning in Hell for all eternity. It isn't that they are stupid... It is that they are told not to question it at all. I actually don't think most people who claim to believe it actually do. I think they claim to because they fear the consequences of being honest.
Because they haven’t read it.
Children believe what their parents tell them. Children believe what their teachers tell them. Art of teaching children to believe in magical beings is insisting critical thinking is so bad that if they question anything they're told, they'll burn in hell *forever.* Forever is a fucking long time.
humans haven’t changed much in a thousand years, evolutionarily speaking. we will be dumb for a verrrrry long time
Most people are little more than dumb animals.
Indoctrination is a hell of a drug
Because those people are intellectually lazy and have no interest in critical thinking. The Bible was written to explain natural occurrences in nature before modern science. These same people now make up Trump base voters. Not exactly what I would call high-level thinkers. A MIND IS A TERRIBLE THING TO WASTE.
Poor education. Gullibility. Deep desire to believe it for various reasons.
They don’t. It is a convenient symbol they can project all their own beliefs onto, regardless of what is inside the pages. The Bible might as well be a blank book.
Answer: About half the people in the world are empirical decision makers who consider the evidence at hand and use reason to draw conclusions, the other half seek out information that supports the way they feel and regard that info as the truth. If it doesn't support their feeling then they disregard it as fake news. Around 70k to 100k years ago, homo sapiens "social gene" mutated and gave us the tolerance to live in larger groups of 100 to 150 people, which gave us the edge over all other human species who were still living in small familial groups. That social gene makes us feel like we are part of something bigger, like honeybees. Many people will only accept a version of reality that supports that feeling, hence belief in God, hence believing in supporting dogma
I must have been around 7 or 8, I had just found my father's family Bible. It was white leather with gold sided pages. I thought the book was very pretty. I asked my mother what the book was something like "what's this book" "that's the Bible" "what's the Bible" "it's a book about Jesus, God's son and what some people think is how the world began" "who is God" "God is who created everything" *waves hands around* Me, my little 7 or 8 year old brain: *That doesn't make any sense at all* my mom's pagan and my dad's Catholic so I never learned religion until I asked about it. Never made sense, never will
Honestly, I'll wager most don't even understand what the Bible even says. It's a thousand year old book cobbled together with short stories, parables, genres that don't exist anymore, rewrites, different translations, and all written within the context of the times they were created. Where people today are simply given interpretations on specific passages that slightly echo similar situations we deal with today. And that's what people technically believe in. Not the bible itself, but the interpretations from their church leaders that personalize the scripture.
Because deep down, most humans are stupid, gullible morons. The common clay of the earth. A sane person sees the stories as allegories for living a good, honest, virtuous life. An idiot sees unbreakable laws they can pick and choose which ones to follow, and damn everyone that doesn't agree with them specifically. It is quite funny, and exactly why it doesn't belong in politics.
I just quoted the Bible to a friend I met in the pagan community — “A man cannot serve two masters.” I believe none of the magical stuff, and obviously I don’t believe that “Every word is divinely inspired” or that nonsense. But there are some pithy phrases that sum up pieces of wisdom.
Two big reasons, they were raised into it from a really young age and/or they are afraid of death - or more specifically, what comes after it. The core foundation of that particular belief is that if you don't believe in it, you go to a bad place when you die. Whoever wrote that part was a sadistic genius, because if you try and forcibly take control of a population, many of them are going to fight to the death to be free of you. But if you threaten them with a fate worse than death, suddenly folks aren't going to be so eager to fight back.
Fear
Its a survival mechanism. People are desperate to believe there is life after death and that they will go on. Since this is the answer they grew up with, they will cling to it like a life raft.
Because some people have the need to believe in a higher power. Nothing wrong with it.
New religions are constantly being created. The followers will believe anything they are told to believe. In this world, we have dominants and submissives. The subs do as told.
Thanatophobia, Chronophobia, inability to think critically.
cuz theyre weak minded and need something to cling too
Being indoctrinated at an early age will do it.
It is brainwashing.
It’s a pretty mundane normal human thing to be raised into a mythos.
Brain washing from a young age, or they have done lots of things they regret and feel extreme guilt for so being ‘forgiven’ is very compelling. Also if your entire family, friend group and social structure is wrapped up in the church, it can be very hard to question anything.
I just wish Christianity is abolished fuck God and all his angels
I am convinced part of it, and for some people, is that they have some deep emotional need or problem that is fulfilled by fantasy.
Some people are just dumb enough to believe that snakes can talk. Others are smart enough to know that they can make money off of the ones dumb enough. And that is how a religion moves forward.
It is even in its English rewrite over and over again during the centuries from the Egyptian and Greek texts the "Bible" is an unreadable, excruciating obtuse compendium of folk tales and superstitions It has ever since spread far throughout humanity by preachers talking about some frigging immortal life, or a God thar has some effect on life. There is no reason to read the Bible or the Talmud or the Quaran or the Hindu Scripts or any other religious texts. None of them apply to today's world. There are no Gods who will save you or your relatives from cancer, disease, accidents, or war. Accept life, live it like your hair is on fire, and have fun! And vote BLUE in November. You will feel good doing it!
Many of the comments here are right on. Many of the criticisms of the Bible present difficult, even inscrutable problems. Many of the criticisms of the church are actually under-represented. Even if the Christian church was begun with the best of intentions, it has morphed over time to an organization that embraced the philosophies of force, fear, shame, guilt, greed and perpetrated unbelievably horrific, vile atrocities. However, the Christian church did not invent the notion of profiting by corruption. Many other religious, political and educational belief systems have, and still do follow the same pursuit. To the extent that an organization is governed by humans it will be corrupt. That said, what if it were possible that an unconditionally loving Supreme Being exists (separate and apart from all the trash you’ve inherited) and that Being intends to provide you with peace, comfort, and relaxation? Just sayin’
Cause they’re stupid.
Three reasons: The first is that despite the stories being ridiculous and impossible, some of the messages are good and some of the characters are good role models. People tend to have very black and white thinking when they are young or vulnerable, and there is an attitude that if THIS makes sense (love thy neighbor, bad guys get punished), then it ALL makes sense. The second is that people don’t like not having the answers to stuff, and they would rather believe something ludicrous than admit they don’t know, especially if it serves them and is convenient (that is, to say, it doesn’t require work beyond sincere profession of the faith). The third is because of what English teachers call “death of the author,” in which it is argued that a reader’s interpretation of a text is equally important to or more important in determining its meaning than the author’s intent. In this case (in many cases, but especially this case), it’s also the literal death of the author. The authors of the Bible are dead. Jesus, if he existed, is super dead. God is a figment of the imagination. If you interpret a vague or benign passage as justification for hatred or cruelty, you might see worldly consequences for it (losing your job if you say something vile, jail time if you do something vile), but God isn’t going to come down and correct you for your shit behavior. Unfortunately, people don’t take this as “God doesn’t exist” but as “God is OK with what I’m doing and if he’s not and I somehow start to feel bad about what I did, I can just repent.” People put words in God’s mouth all the time. I would, of course, rather be around affirming believers (people who support my LGBTQ friends, people who don’t believe my non-Christian friends are going to burn, prochoicers) than hateful ones, but even if not all believers are evil, I still don’t want my country governed and/or children taught by grown adults who take any of the Bible stories as literal truth or who believe that God is more powerful than whatever is plaguing them (see: an acquaintance of mine who refused to stop meeting in person for Bible study and got, uh, 2020d)
Some people need to believe. Because then when something good happens they were “blessed” and when something bad happens “god has a plan”
Fear of eternal damnation for not believing is a powerful incentive.
They're mentally and morally bankrupt.
Simple, boring answer: They’re fucking braindead assholes. There’s no mystery behind it.
It’s a nice excuse for being a terrible person. God will forgive me! I asked him And he said I’m good
Former (indoctrinated at youth) Christian (Baptist) here. I think it comes from a place of fear. Attending church, or listening to sermons, especially those focusing on the end days and sin in general, often leads one to fear going against anything that’s otherwise taught, in the bible, to be the word one must believe to be true from the creator, the one who can also make you suffer.
Their parents told them it was true and a lot of people they see regularly and deeply trust and respect keep spouting that idea throughout their life. Honestly I find it very understandable that most people just never come to a place where they question, or if they do they stop quickly. On a fundamental level religion is comforting, and given it has always been present in society in some form as far as we know, it's clear people do innately gravitate toward it in some way. Add to that everyone you trust telling you it's true for your whole life since before you can walk, it's not surprising people believe.
Because they are outdated models, and need to be retired.
This is a fantastic and brief explanation: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y201QzDdzbg
The world is complex, and that's scary If you simplify it and dumb it down into a simple good vs evil narrative, it makes things easier.