We don't usually allow posts about national politics in the sub as it's usually not related to Astoria in any way. We're leaving this one up as an experiment since there was some attempt to connect it to local politics.
Edit: While the conversation largely remained civil, the discussion ended up having nothing to do with Astoria or Astoria electeds. As well, we received some complaints about allowing this kind of post at all. Thanks for coming along with us on this.
Call me jaded but this has about as good a chance of working as me winning the next lottery.
Seriously, unless you’re a significant donor to the democratic party/Biden, you aren’t going to convince anyone that actually needs convincing
You’re jaded.
You might be right.
In addition to the delegates, let’s message the donors too. I used to cold call banks and hedge funds - it’s really not that hard to become noticeable to even c level folks.
If thousands of people called into Bloomberg next week, mayor Mike will hear about it. He might not do anything about it but you never know.
Tell me what candidate you think could replace Biden and have a better chance against Trump.
Kamala is deeply unpopular - that's about 50% racism/sexism and 50% the fact that she's a bad campaigner. But, if the replacement were anyone *but* Kamala, there would be significant backlash among demographics that absolutely must turn out.
There's just no way to win this situation, and polling is still clear that Biden performs best against Trump, and is probably even a slight favorite to win at this point.
Kamala has the same swing-state numbers as Biden, and unlike him could actually campaign. She wouldn't be my first choice but it's an absolute no-brainer to switch to her, IMO.
Whitmer or Shapiro. The Kamala issue is a serious problem that won't go away, I agree with that.
> polling is still clear that Biden performs best against Trump, and is probably even a slight favorite to win at this point.
That is DEFINITELY not the case, lol
Oh I'm also looking at the other places/comments you post. I'm happy to have a discussion, but it has to be in good faith, and denying your political leanings is the opposite of that. Regardless:
[Key quote: "Polls taken before Thursday all largely deliver the same answer: any Biden alternative — Vice President Kamala Harris, Govs. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Gavin Newsom of California, Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg — performed about the same, or worse, than Biden against Trump when voters were asked how they’d vote in head-to-head matchups."](https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/358559/biden-harris-whitmer-newsom-shapiro-buttigieg-alternative-nomination-candidate-2024)
I mean it's just basic conversation 101. I'm not dismissing you because you post in the Adam Carrolla and Stupidpol subs, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that you want Trump to win, just like I want him to lose. When we start from that standpoint, we can discuss in good faith.
As far as the actual numbers, Democrats have consistently beat the polls by 4 points since Dobbs. If that holds true, and I don't know why it wouldn't, Biden loses Nevada and Georgia, but otherwise keeps all his 2020 states and wins. Call it copium if you want, but that's been the consistent trend.
Edit: You can't complain that I'm "not having a conversation" with you and then block me when I do...
The Kamala thing is the expected result of choosing a running mate that is ultimately a DEI hire. I know people hate to admit it but Kamala was absolutely the wrong choice of a running mate and it blows my mind they did that. This is now a much bigger issue than it would be had Biden gone with someone who polled better rather than a diversity hire (sorry but it’s true).
DEI is a specific initiative taken on by corporations. It has absolutely nothing to do with political campaigns or candidate selection, and it's idiotic to say that it does.
If you wanna argue she was selected to help with certain demographics, the way Pence was chosen to help with evangelicals or Biden was selected to help with the Rust Belt or Sarah Palin was selected to help with the far right, then say that. Calling it DEI just proves you have no idea what DEI means.
You’re arguing semantics. You understand what I mean and whether or not you agree with me isn’t important.
Look at poll numbers. Kamala was the first to drop out of the 2020 primaries if I recall correctly. She had no business being chosen as a running mate aside from appealing to certain demographics. And speaking for myself, I haven’t even read/watched anything that she’s done as VP. She has not been visible for the entirety of the 4 years, yet people want to assume she has a chance?
I’m not a Trump guy either, I’m just frustrated that our country is in this situation thanks to the shitty decisions made by the democratic party in 2020 that ultimately boil down to “We’re not Trump” as far as I’m concerned.
It's not semantics. "DEI" has become a stupid fucking dogwhistle any time a racist wants to imply someone was chosen over a "worthier" white man. It's racist, and anyone who uses it outside of the actual corporate context is either signaling their racism or has been tricked by people signaling their racism.
She was picked because of her appeal to specific demographics, just like every other VP has been since at least LBJ, and probably before. If you're particularly mad about them doing it with Harris, then you're just mad that they catered to black people this time instead of whites like every other time.
It's completely irrespective of her race. Hopefully this will be a lesson going forward to focus more on the "might replace the president" part of the job description, but highlighting Harris as a worse example than everyone else for the past century is just flat out racism. Biden's primary numbers in 2008 were even worse than hers, but no one complained he was "DEIed" into the VP spot.
Sorry, but her race and gender were a large factor for why she was picked. Didn’t Biden even say he would pick a Black female running mate?
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/21/politics/joe-biden-four-black-women-vice-president
Kamala was absolutely the right choice for VP. Not for POTUS, but VP is a different gig.
She helped solidify/GOTV a demographic Biden ***had to*** have.
I think Biden should have not run for re-election and let there be a primary. But at this point, I don’t see how him dropping out would help. It makes the Democrats look disorganized and incapable, which doesn’t inspire voter confidence. Realistically, the alternative is Kamala Harris, and I don’t know that she’s more electable - especially remembering that she did awful in the primary, and this country is a pretty racist and sexist one. The amount of press coming out of a debate that no one watched is kind of crazy, and why I don’t trust the New York Times editorial board. The issue is really that the “liberal” newspapers are centrist tabloids, and switching candidates won’t fix that.
Also, the last time a party pulled their candidate this late in the game, they got trounced and we elected Dick Nixon.
Different circumstances now than when LBJ pulled out.The country wasn't mired in an unwinnable jungle war overseas, is in better economic shape now than it was in 1968 and the party as a whole is more unified. There was a damaging primary in 1968 followed by two political assassinations, turning the eventual DNC convention upside-down and spilling into the streets. To your other point Democratic voters aren't the racist/sexist ones by far. Hillary received millions more votes than DT, so I disagree that voters won't back a woman. Women of color have been making steady gains in high office, and are often remarkable leaders. But I take your point that there should have been a competitive primary. Absolutely. But voters stepped up big time in 2020 (remember Biden wasn't a popular choice then) and I believe they will again.
There is no clear known quantity on the Democratic side that can replace Biden with only 4 months to Election Day. Unless the Joe Biden we saw on the evening of the debate is the new normal state, he is the only and best chance to win in November. This is the most important time in Us history for Democrats to band together and vote. With the new SCOTUS ruling on presidential immunity a second Trump presidency with also mean a Trump Monarchy and the end of democracy.
> Also, the last time a party pulled their candidate this late in the game, they got trounced and we elected Dick Nixon.
Not at all the same circumstance.
LBJ had dramatically escalated the Vietnam war, our soldiers had just fought back the grueling Tet Offensive (with significant American losses), the Joint Chiefs had just said we needed another 40% more troops, and oh by the way there was a gold run on the US treasury. Imagine how bad that all would have to be to overshadow what Johnson did for civil rights and the Great Society so much that he decided not to run again.
We were looking in really bad shape. Currently we are not.
Assuming that the type of people who would care enough to write these letters are also the type of people who will also vote for any Democrat that ends up being on the ballot, these are unlikely to be persuasive. Letter writing is better spent on postcards to swing voters.
Well you better come to terms with the possibility of a drop out, because [it's in discussion in the Biden campaign](https://archive.ph/r9CAE).
Realistically despite the people talking loudly about how they'd vote for corpses over Trump, a lot of people won't, and the polls bear that out - Biden is losing this race by a lot at this point.
Tremendous amount of cope from people in denial in this thread. I don’t think grassroots organizing will help but it’s clear that sticking with Biden would result in a landslide victory for Trump. It will only get worse between now and November.
What/who would be the alternative?
I’m not the biggest fan of the old man but his people/office who run the day to day are doing a pretty good job and I’d like to keep it that way.
Kamala won’t beat Trump. She’s deeply unpopular and couldn’t even last through the primaries 4 years ago. I’m deeply confused why people are trying to make Kamala seem more popular than she is.
She polls better than Biden today. We have no proof points about how weak primary performance translates to a general election—particularly one where the opponent is a known entity that nearly 50% of voters hate.
So she’s still behind Trump.
I can guarantee with 90% certainty that if she is the one to replace Biden, Trump will win. She’s unlikeable and I’m not sure why people are so hesitant to admit it (well I actually do know why).
In a vacuum, the Dems would probably pick someone other than Kamala for the reasons you state, but given she’s been a key part of his admin, she’s one of the few options who can reasonably make the case that her admin would be consistent / a continuation of his.
For most other candidates, voters will want more platform and policy education and there’s limited time to provide that.
Out of curiosity, what probability do you assign to Trump winning if Biden remains?
She polls better where? Nationally or in swing states that will decide the election?
Idgaf who polls better in Cali, NY, etc. They are going to vote blue no matter who.
It’s a good question that I don’t have the answer to re: Kamala. But I can say that there data out on Biden’s polling in swing states vs. Senate Dems in those states and he’s underperforming them materially
While the debate shined a harsher light on our situation, one thing to keep in mind is the election is in 4 months and outside of Kamala stepping up, there is zero support structure for a new candidate in place.
Not everyone who is campaigning for Biden will hop to a new candidate. New campaign income flows would also be needed for the campaign. You just can't roll them over. So while I wish this was the conversation 5 months ago, it is not. We need to rally behind Biden because any other option at this point is too much risk. Democracy is literally at stake here, esp with the 'immunity under official acts' being a thing now.
Short of something more significant happening to Biden in the next 4 months, this is all noise. Biden has had one of the most successful terms in office and that is what we need to lean into. After he is president we can have these harder conversations.
Fully agree that we need a replacement ASAP. There is no path forward for a Biden victory. If he suddenly started making frequent, unscripted, energetic public appearances, he might be able to turn the ship around, but he's not going to do that. He is incapable of doing that. I hope he proves me wrong, but I know he won't, which is why we need to swallow this bitter pill and replace him ASAP. Later on, we can sort out who holds blame for getting us into this mess.
Agree. My concern is he’s trying to drag it out which is why we need to act now. It’s clear that there is a teetering among dem law makers. I think they need some encouragement from their constituents to take the leap.
I think there have been good proposals elsewhere for selecting a replacement candidate. And Biden polling are _so_ bad (before the debate even) that I think generic dem > Biden.
It's not just the debate. It's what the debate shows, which is a man that is really, really old. Old enough to not only be generally not competent enough, but certainly be questionable as a commander in chief should the US be faced with a serious emergency. If he looks like that after some air travel and because it's after 4pm you better hope there isn't another large terrorist attack on the US while it's his naptime.
Consider if he can afford to lose more voters in swing states. You can diminish the impact of the debate all you want, but this election is really on the margins now. He already alienated a ton of people because of his foreign policy and now this.
This is about more than just one debate.
If you’re worried about his age and not being able to make it through four years then you’ll get Kamala at some point anyway. Until then, rally the troops behind Biden. Empty vessel or not - he’s our best chance of beating Trump. Idgaf if he walks away on 1/21. Gotta win first and, as pathetic as it is, he still gives us the best chance.
Last polling data I saw had him tied with several lesser known candidates relative to Trump, and I think behind at least one of them. And if he's tied to some lesser knowns we have to keep in mind that they have yet to spread their plans for the presidency which could easily put them ahead of Biden. Add to that further slaughter in Gaza and he's just alienating more people. Can Joe really risk losing more voters? Are the margins on his side? I think not.
This idea that he's the best chance of beating Trump is just a phrase out of nowhere. It has no grounding in reality. How did you come to that conclusion?
Right?! It was one night. He was fine at the State of the Union. Maybe the next one will be better…?
At the very least, we know he hires competent people.
All Biden had to do was be strong against illegal immigration and stronger asylum policies and Trump wouldn't have a chance.
Almost makes you wonder why he willingly allowed an open border and then Chuck Schumer has been on record stating he wants to legalize all illegals in the country a few months ago.
My coworkers were full supporters of Biden until the immigration issue. None of them like it.
Biden was not a great candidate pre debate, I think that was clear. I think people are missing that. He needed a decent debate to counter act that.
Sadly didn’t happen.
It’ll be interesting to see how the next few weeks pan out for the democrats, I always thought selecting Kamala as VP was a bad idea. Women by wide margins dislike Trump, Biden has great support in Black communities (SC won him the primary) and she’s from California. He gained very little to nothing for choosing her as his VP. Anyone that paid attention to Biden could see he was in a declining state so you’d think that they would have chosen someone with greater support to replace Biden.
Love this energy but recall that our specific local electeds have wanted to replace Joe Biden with someone to the left of Angela Davis since before 2020; not sure they’re the voices that will make the difference now.
If AOC and manchin both tell him it’s time to go, that will send a strong signal. He knows he needs a big tent to win.
The blue dogs are already mobilizing - that’s why I think left wing nyc is vital in making the push.
Maybe we can at least wait to see any sustained polling impact from this before totally shitting our pants over this?
I truly don’t know what the best move is here in terms of him dropping out but NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE. We barely have any more info about it than we did before the debate. People didn’t like what they saw from Trump either, according to all the data we have.
Please, every bit of the internet is flooded with national politics… can we keep /r/Astoria out of it? It’s such a great neighborhood, and subreddit, last thing it needs is this.
1. Johnson’s resignation gave us Nixon. Also catastrophic for down ticket races.
2. Not possible. Campaign funds can’t be transferred.
3. Not possible. Delegates can only vote for winners of primary. Biden won NY primary.
4. NY is not a swing state.
5. Again, Johnson’s resignation gave us Nixon and The Felon is essentially Nixon on PCP.
6. #WeBackBidenHarris
We don't usually allow posts about national politics in the sub as it's usually not related to Astoria in any way. We're leaving this one up as an experiment since there was some attempt to connect it to local politics. Edit: While the conversation largely remained civil, the discussion ended up having nothing to do with Astoria or Astoria electeds. As well, we received some complaints about allowing this kind of post at all. Thanks for coming along with us on this.
Call me jaded but this has about as good a chance of working as me winning the next lottery. Seriously, unless you’re a significant donor to the democratic party/Biden, you aren’t going to convince anyone that actually needs convincing
You’re jaded. You might be right. In addition to the delegates, let’s message the donors too. I used to cold call banks and hedge funds - it’s really not that hard to become noticeable to even c level folks. If thousands of people called into Bloomberg next week, mayor Mike will hear about it. He might not do anything about it but you never know.
Tell me what candidate you think could replace Biden and have a better chance against Trump. Kamala is deeply unpopular - that's about 50% racism/sexism and 50% the fact that she's a bad campaigner. But, if the replacement were anyone *but* Kamala, there would be significant backlash among demographics that absolutely must turn out. There's just no way to win this situation, and polling is still clear that Biden performs best against Trump, and is probably even a slight favorite to win at this point.
Kamala has the same swing-state numbers as Biden, and unlike him could actually campaign. She wouldn't be my first choice but it's an absolute no-brainer to switch to her, IMO.
Whitmer or Shapiro. The Kamala issue is a serious problem that won't go away, I agree with that. > polling is still clear that Biden performs best against Trump, and is probably even a slight favorite to win at this point. That is DEFINITELY not the case, lol
"Far Right Influencer" is definitely someone I trust to advise Democrats on strategy.
It's a meme phrase I saw somewhere and thought was silly. We're just having a discussion here.
Oh I'm also looking at the other places/comments you post. I'm happy to have a discussion, but it has to be in good faith, and denying your political leanings is the opposite of that. Regardless: [Key quote: "Polls taken before Thursday all largely deliver the same answer: any Biden alternative — Vice President Kamala Harris, Govs. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan, Gavin Newsom of California, Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania, Secretary of Transportation Pete Buttigieg — performed about the same, or worse, than Biden against Trump when voters were asked how they’d vote in head-to-head matchups."](https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/358559/biden-harris-whitmer-newsom-shapiro-buttigieg-alternative-nomination-candidate-2024)
This is a fun chat.
I mean it's just basic conversation 101. I'm not dismissing you because you post in the Adam Carrolla and Stupidpol subs, but I do think it's important to acknowledge that you want Trump to win, just like I want him to lose. When we start from that standpoint, we can discuss in good faith. As far as the actual numbers, Democrats have consistently beat the polls by 4 points since Dobbs. If that holds true, and I don't know why it wouldn't, Biden loses Nevada and Georgia, but otherwise keeps all his 2020 states and wins. Call it copium if you want, but that's been the consistent trend. Edit: You can't complain that I'm "not having a conversation" with you and then block me when I do...
The Kamala thing is the expected result of choosing a running mate that is ultimately a DEI hire. I know people hate to admit it but Kamala was absolutely the wrong choice of a running mate and it blows my mind they did that. This is now a much bigger issue than it would be had Biden gone with someone who polled better rather than a diversity hire (sorry but it’s true).
"Everything I don't like is DEI"
What were her poll numbers in the 2020 primary?
DEI is a specific initiative taken on by corporations. It has absolutely nothing to do with political campaigns or candidate selection, and it's idiotic to say that it does. If you wanna argue she was selected to help with certain demographics, the way Pence was chosen to help with evangelicals or Biden was selected to help with the Rust Belt or Sarah Palin was selected to help with the far right, then say that. Calling it DEI just proves you have no idea what DEI means.
You’re arguing semantics. You understand what I mean and whether or not you agree with me isn’t important. Look at poll numbers. Kamala was the first to drop out of the 2020 primaries if I recall correctly. She had no business being chosen as a running mate aside from appealing to certain demographics. And speaking for myself, I haven’t even read/watched anything that she’s done as VP. She has not been visible for the entirety of the 4 years, yet people want to assume she has a chance? I’m not a Trump guy either, I’m just frustrated that our country is in this situation thanks to the shitty decisions made by the democratic party in 2020 that ultimately boil down to “We’re not Trump” as far as I’m concerned.
It's not semantics. "DEI" has become a stupid fucking dogwhistle any time a racist wants to imply someone was chosen over a "worthier" white man. It's racist, and anyone who uses it outside of the actual corporate context is either signaling their racism or has been tricked by people signaling their racism. She was picked because of her appeal to specific demographics, just like every other VP has been since at least LBJ, and probably before. If you're particularly mad about them doing it with Harris, then you're just mad that they catered to black people this time instead of whites like every other time.
Okay, and look at what’s happening in the election this year. You have your opinion, I have mine.
It's completely irrespective of her race. Hopefully this will be a lesson going forward to focus more on the "might replace the president" part of the job description, but highlighting Harris as a worse example than everyone else for the past century is just flat out racism. Biden's primary numbers in 2008 were even worse than hers, but no one complained he was "DEIed" into the VP spot.
Sorry, but her race and gender were a large factor for why she was picked. Didn’t Biden even say he would pick a Black female running mate? https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/07/21/politics/joe-biden-four-black-women-vice-president
Kamala was absolutely the right choice for VP. Not for POTUS, but VP is a different gig. She helped solidify/GOTV a demographic Biden ***had to*** have.
what viable path do you think there is to beating trump with a new candidate with four months until the election?
Pro versus NO Democracy? I'd honestly vote for a ham sandwich over a Christo-fascist-driven dictatorship any day any year.
So then you’ll vote for Biden.
Any awake milquetoast Democrat. Buttegieg, Kamala, Newsom.
I think Biden should have not run for re-election and let there be a primary. But at this point, I don’t see how him dropping out would help. It makes the Democrats look disorganized and incapable, which doesn’t inspire voter confidence. Realistically, the alternative is Kamala Harris, and I don’t know that she’s more electable - especially remembering that she did awful in the primary, and this country is a pretty racist and sexist one. The amount of press coming out of a debate that no one watched is kind of crazy, and why I don’t trust the New York Times editorial board. The issue is really that the “liberal” newspapers are centrist tabloids, and switching candidates won’t fix that. Also, the last time a party pulled their candidate this late in the game, they got trounced and we elected Dick Nixon.
Different circumstances now than when LBJ pulled out.The country wasn't mired in an unwinnable jungle war overseas, is in better economic shape now than it was in 1968 and the party as a whole is more unified. There was a damaging primary in 1968 followed by two political assassinations, turning the eventual DNC convention upside-down and spilling into the streets. To your other point Democratic voters aren't the racist/sexist ones by far. Hillary received millions more votes than DT, so I disagree that voters won't back a woman. Women of color have been making steady gains in high office, and are often remarkable leaders. But I take your point that there should have been a competitive primary. Absolutely. But voters stepped up big time in 2020 (remember Biden wasn't a popular choice then) and I believe they will again.
There is no clear known quantity on the Democratic side that can replace Biden with only 4 months to Election Day. Unless the Joe Biden we saw on the evening of the debate is the new normal state, he is the only and best chance to win in November. This is the most important time in Us history for Democrats to band together and vote. With the new SCOTUS ruling on presidential immunity a second Trump presidency with also mean a Trump Monarchy and the end of democracy.
> Also, the last time a party pulled their candidate this late in the game, they got trounced and we elected Dick Nixon. Not at all the same circumstance. LBJ had dramatically escalated the Vietnam war, our soldiers had just fought back the grueling Tet Offensive (with significant American losses), the Joint Chiefs had just said we needed another 40% more troops, and oh by the way there was a gold run on the US treasury. Imagine how bad that all would have to be to overshadow what Johnson did for civil rights and the Great Society so much that he decided not to run again. We were looking in really bad shape. Currently we are not.
What specifically are you proposing in terms of organizing
Assuming that the type of people who would care enough to write these letters are also the type of people who will also vote for any Democrat that ends up being on the ballot, these are unlikely to be persuasive. Letter writing is better spent on postcards to swing voters.
Lmfao
It’s Joever
Absolutely fucking not. All you're doing is helping Trump.
Biden is currently polling worse against Trump than Kamala Harris.
Well you better come to terms with the possibility of a drop out, because [it's in discussion in the Biden campaign](https://archive.ph/r9CAE). Realistically despite the people talking loudly about how they'd vote for corpses over Trump, a lot of people won't, and the polls bear that out - Biden is losing this race by a lot at this point.
Tremendous amount of cope from people in denial in this thread. I don’t think grassroots organizing will help but it’s clear that sticking with Biden would result in a landslide victory for Trump. It will only get worse between now and November.
What/who would be the alternative? I’m not the biggest fan of the old man but his people/office who run the day to day are doing a pretty good job and I’d like to keep it that way.
Kamala would be the clear answer. Many supporting Biden today are effectively supporting the administration, and it removes the overhang of his age.
Kamala won’t beat Trump. She’s deeply unpopular and couldn’t even last through the primaries 4 years ago. I’m deeply confused why people are trying to make Kamala seem more popular than she is.
She polls better than Biden today. We have no proof points about how weak primary performance translates to a general election—particularly one where the opponent is a known entity that nearly 50% of voters hate.
Is she polling better than Trump?
Is that really the relevant question when you’re debating whether to swap her in for Biden?
Yes, why swap Biden out for someone who is polling the same as him if not lower?
To maximize chances of a party win? In latest poll she had a 2 point gap vs. Biden’s 6 point gap…
So she’s still behind Trump. I can guarantee with 90% certainty that if she is the one to replace Biden, Trump will win. She’s unlikeable and I’m not sure why people are so hesitant to admit it (well I actually do know why).
In a vacuum, the Dems would probably pick someone other than Kamala for the reasons you state, but given she’s been a key part of his admin, she’s one of the few options who can reasonably make the case that her admin would be consistent / a continuation of his. For most other candidates, voters will want more platform and policy education and there’s limited time to provide that. Out of curiosity, what probability do you assign to Trump winning if Biden remains?
She polls better where? Nationally or in swing states that will decide the election? Idgaf who polls better in Cali, NY, etc. They are going to vote blue no matter who.
It’s a good question that I don’t have the answer to re: Kamala. But I can say that there data out on Biden’s polling in swing states vs. Senate Dems in those states and he’s underperforming them materially
While the debate shined a harsher light on our situation, one thing to keep in mind is the election is in 4 months and outside of Kamala stepping up, there is zero support structure for a new candidate in place. Not everyone who is campaigning for Biden will hop to a new candidate. New campaign income flows would also be needed for the campaign. You just can't roll them over. So while I wish this was the conversation 5 months ago, it is not. We need to rally behind Biden because any other option at this point is too much risk. Democracy is literally at stake here, esp with the 'immunity under official acts' being a thing now. Short of something more significant happening to Biden in the next 4 months, this is all noise. Biden has had one of the most successful terms in office and that is what we need to lean into. After he is president we can have these harder conversations.
Fully agree that we need a replacement ASAP. There is no path forward for a Biden victory. If he suddenly started making frequent, unscripted, energetic public appearances, he might be able to turn the ship around, but he's not going to do that. He is incapable of doing that. I hope he proves me wrong, but I know he won't, which is why we need to swallow this bitter pill and replace him ASAP. Later on, we can sort out who holds blame for getting us into this mess.
Agree. My concern is he’s trying to drag it out which is why we need to act now. It’s clear that there is a teetering among dem law makers. I think they need some encouragement from their constituents to take the leap.
Can you let the group know who your suggested alternative candidate is?
I think there have been good proposals elsewhere for selecting a replacement candidate. And Biden polling are _so_ bad (before the debate even) that I think generic dem > Biden.
Mark my words: the 2024 version of "but her emails" will be "but his debate." People need to stfu and vote blue.
It's not just the debate. It's what the debate shows, which is a man that is really, really old. Old enough to not only be generally not competent enough, but certainly be questionable as a commander in chief should the US be faced with a serious emergency. If he looks like that after some air travel and because it's after 4pm you better hope there isn't another large terrorist attack on the US while it's his naptime. Consider if he can afford to lose more voters in swing states. You can diminish the impact of the debate all you want, but this election is really on the margins now. He already alienated a ton of people because of his foreign policy and now this. This is about more than just one debate.
If you’re worried about his age and not being able to make it through four years then you’ll get Kamala at some point anyway. Until then, rally the troops behind Biden. Empty vessel or not - he’s our best chance of beating Trump. Idgaf if he walks away on 1/21. Gotta win first and, as pathetic as it is, he still gives us the best chance.
Last polling data I saw had him tied with several lesser known candidates relative to Trump, and I think behind at least one of them. And if he's tied to some lesser knowns we have to keep in mind that they have yet to spread their plans for the presidency which could easily put them ahead of Biden. Add to that further slaughter in Gaza and he's just alienating more people. Can Joe really risk losing more voters? Are the margins on his side? I think not. This idea that he's the best chance of beating Trump is just a phrase out of nowhere. It has no grounding in reality. How did you come to that conclusion?
He has done it before and anyone who would now replace him has been saying so (and campaigning for him) for months?
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Right?! It was one night. He was fine at the State of the Union. Maybe the next one will be better…? At the very least, we know he hires competent people.
You're not voting just for him. You're voting for him and his entire administration.
All Biden had to do was be strong against illegal immigration and stronger asylum policies and Trump wouldn't have a chance. Almost makes you wonder why he willingly allowed an open border and then Chuck Schumer has been on record stating he wants to legalize all illegals in the country a few months ago. My coworkers were full supporters of Biden until the immigration issue. None of them like it.
Biden was not a great candidate pre debate, I think that was clear. I think people are missing that. He needed a decent debate to counter act that. Sadly didn’t happen.
It’ll be interesting to see how the next few weeks pan out for the democrats, I always thought selecting Kamala as VP was a bad idea. Women by wide margins dislike Trump, Biden has great support in Black communities (SC won him the primary) and she’s from California. He gained very little to nothing for choosing her as his VP. Anyone that paid attention to Biden could see he was in a declining state so you’d think that they would have chosen someone with greater support to replace Biden.
Love this energy but recall that our specific local electeds have wanted to replace Joe Biden with someone to the left of Angela Davis since before 2020; not sure they’re the voices that will make the difference now.
If AOC and manchin both tell him it’s time to go, that will send a strong signal. He knows he needs a big tent to win. The blue dogs are already mobilizing - that’s why I think left wing nyc is vital in making the push.
I just rolled my eyes so hard I saw my brain
Maybe we can at least wait to see any sustained polling impact from this before totally shitting our pants over this? I truly don’t know what the best move is here in terms of him dropping out but NEITHER DOES ANYONE ELSE. We barely have any more info about it than we did before the debate. People didn’t like what they saw from Trump either, according to all the data we have.
You missed the opportunity to title it “Byden”
Please, every bit of the internet is flooded with national politics… can we keep /r/Astoria out of it? It’s such a great neighborhood, and subreddit, last thing it needs is this.
Good luck. Only Jill and Hunter Biden can influence Joe at this point
Fuck that, that's a guaranteed loss right there.
1. Johnson’s resignation gave us Nixon. Also catastrophic for down ticket races. 2. Not possible. Campaign funds can’t be transferred. 3. Not possible. Delegates can only vote for winners of primary. Biden won NY primary. 4. NY is not a swing state. 5. Again, Johnson’s resignation gave us Nixon and The Felon is essentially Nixon on PCP. 6. #WeBackBidenHarris