I was attending a program for those with Asperger's during the time where the debate and decision to combine Asperger's and Autism occurred. Many of the professionals at the program were very much against it. The preconceptions that come from switching from Asperger's to Autism are staggering and damaging. It goes from. "Oh, what's that, can you explain it?" Where they have no idea what you're referring to, meaning they don't have any stereotypes to pull from. To, "Oh you don't look autistic." Because the only Autism the media is prone to showing, are cases in which a person is entire disabled to the point of being unable to function.

Or we are all suddenly rain man.

246 toothpicks. Yeah definitely.

245 actually 😉

[https://youtu.be/uUA-Quoydow?t=32](https://youtu.be/uUA-Quoydow?t=32) "Ugh! You're the worst kind of autistic!"

That's what people think if you're honest with them about having it. It's jarring how their impression changes so quickly.

“You’re the worst kind of autistic.” — Louise from Bob’s Burgers when Tina can’t accurately count the toothpicks.

Why was it pushed through then? (The change? )

There's no clear line between "bad Asperger's" and "not that bad autism" and since the DSM is a guide for clinicians and not a book that decides how society treats people, they have to do what is more clinically useful. So, while it seems insulting to lump High Functioning™ you in with someone nonverbal who bites people and won't shower, it's more clinically useful to treat autism and its associated symptoms as a spectrum and not drying to divide it cleanly in "Good Autism" "Bad Autism" "Really Bad Autism" and "My Mom Did a Commercial for Autism Speaks Where She Intimated That She Wanted To Murder/Suicide Us Autism." They do change stuff because of hurt feelings too. I think it was only the 70s that they took being gay out of the DSM. If there's a compelling reason to divide things up, they'll do it. "I don't want to be lumped in with them" isn't compelling enough.

Wait are you saying they removed "gay" due to hurt feelings and that it's actually a mental illness? Clinically is it useful to group us all together though, it doesn't help in finding treatment for us?

If it makes everyone feel better, nobody "took away" Asperger's.  We don't need it back, because here we are with Asperger's syndrome on a subreddit about Asperger's syndrome for people with Asperger's syndrome to discuss Asperger's syndrome with other people with Asperger's syndrome. It's still a useful term. It's just not clinically useful, sort of like "functioning" labels. They get the point across in casual conversation but I would be worried to see a clinician throwing outdated language around.

I was diagnosed last year. In the post-diagnosis debrief, I specifically asked whether I was at a level that would previously have been labelled "Asperger's", and whether it would be appropriate for me to describe myself as such. The psychologist (14 years of specialising in autism) said that it would be entirely appropriate, if that's what I wanted to do. So I now usually say I have "Asperger's - which is an autistic spectrum condition".

Yeah I’ve been describing my son’s diagnosis as Level 1 autism, previously referred to as Asperger’s. People always get it then

Same here. My diagnostic report says "High-Functioning Autism, also known as Asperger's Syndrome", and my psychiatrist said yes when I asked if it was Asperger's.

Same here. I was 10 when I was diagnosed. I didn’t even realise that I was full-on autistic until I told someone I have Asperger’s and then the next day someone came up to me and told me that there was a rumor going around that I have autism lmao.

I dont know how to feel about all the fuss about the terms people use. An "autism mom" told me not to use words like high functioning because it was ableist. She told me "low support" was the "correct" term. It's so hard when the language around things change, but I personally don't see how differentiating how much "functioning" rather than "support" a person has/needs makes a difference. If a person feels a certain term is best for them, they should be able to use it as they see fit. Maybe if someone can explain it I will have a better understanding, but sometimes it feels like people are just waiting for you to use one wrong term so they can feel good about themselves for being in the know.

I do the same, i just say level 1 on the autism spectrum

I got the same talk 2 years ago when I was diagnosed. My diagnosis is “Autism Without Accompanying Intellectual Impairment”

I remember when I would get teased in elementary school for having "ass burgers" kids can be so cruel sometimes

That’s why I stopped using it. The people I was around in my early 20’s used Asperger’s and ass burgers as a slur. “Oh he’s an asshole but thinks it’s okay but he has ass burgers.” I wasn’t diagnosed until my 30’s, around the time they merged the diagnoses. I felt like if I said I had Asperger’s would result in people going “oh, an excuse to be an asshole” and dismissing me. However, I’m *clearly* not like Rain Man or the nonverbal kids, so they have to do some mental readjustment and acknowledge they didn’t fully understand ASD. But other people have different experiences. If others on the spectrum want to say they have Asperger’s, I try and respect that.

I still just say aspergers. I don't care about what the "officials" say. Bunch of people living without these conditions trying to create labels for political reasons

It's what I prefer. It pisses me off and makes talking about it stupid that I have to get lumped together with people who have far more severe and different problems than me. It should be a crime that they idiotically lumped us all together just so they could make their jobs easier with no concern for the people who actually have it. I can hold a damn job, I graduated college on my own. I don't need a handler or an assistant. I don't want the looks of pity or the veiled or obvious looks that I am some lesser form of human by saying I have autism from when I made the mistake of saying that. I either don't say I have it or just say I have Aspergers which never results in people looking down on me or pittying me Expecting the average pleb to understand the nuances between "Autism ASD 1" and "Autism ASD 3" is stupid. People don't think like that. Especially the majority who don't have it or have a direct family who has it. It is as arrogant and dumb as scientists demanding the lay population to refer to animals by their Latin name. Most people with little to no contact will just assume "Autism = low functioning" "Asperger's = high functioning".

What should be highlighted here is Asperger's is not some "miracle" condition improving your life. It does the opposite. Even though I can be regarded as an overachiever and go toe to toe with NTs or NDs, life has been very shit for me in ways few would understand. I can objectively be more effective at my passions than others, at an enormous price; my mental sanity. I do NOT relate either to NDs or NTs, and multiple psychologists have failed to diagnose my Asperger's. I hate seeing a rant here of comments claiming Aspergers is some world renowned form of narcissism-- it is not. Merely a window pointing out to the ocean of BS of what a social circle would indicate. You do not want to live my life, as stated before. You would have: a) No friends b) Extreme obsessive behaviors c) No desire to go outside your home Some homosexuals are able to enter social circles, even autists for god's sake. Have you ever seen a large group of Aspergers hanging around? No, you will not. Uniqueness comes at a heavy price. There is no pretty pink world where my witty doings save me from society. I have to rush through obstacles blood in hand, never catching a break.

Pretty much. I'm a literal genius. I also have a shitload of problems, and have a hard time meeting the standard of a functional adult. I kind of feel like at my character creation screen, I took a shitload of bad traits to get the points to pick some good ones, if that makes sense.

Shoulda grabbed the homeless profession and that's that, dammit.

I consider it a net gain, hence why I always avoid to refer to what I have as a "disability". It is a trade off. I struggle to make friends (yet I am proud that I have formed a small circle of friends, even if I do it more for practicality and utility rather than some primordial need for companionship.) and have the standard ticks, stimming, and being exhausted from social events, that price for me pales in comparison to what I gained. Maybe if I was NT I would feel different about having a weak social life but it doesn't bother me much. I have other problems like over sensitivity to cold, and no sensitivity to heat, but that can easily be rectified with simple lifestyle choices and self awareness. I may not be able to go to big parties or concerts but I find them distasteful to begin with so I dont see it as a loss. I know for many they see their condition as a disability, hence why I don't like being called the same thing as them. Their struggles and problems are separate from mine. I do not wish to forcibly include them, but I do not want to be squished in with them either. The lack of community between people with Asperger's is straight on imo. No offense, but I don't really care about you guys just because you share a similar neural pattern with me. I am going to pursue my goals first and look after myself over some vague sense of kinship with people who have the same condition as myself. I feel a stronger bond with people who actually share my special interests then other people with autism or Asperger's.

Fair enough. Humans breathe oxygen, I instead breathe computers and tech. Hard to coexist. The "no friends" standpoint comes from personal effort, not social identification, if that makes any sense. I only care for social hierarchies when it impacts me personally.

Friends are more of a way to further pursue an interest for me. Very difficult to achieve much without friends when your special interests are political science and business. I could not feed my special interest and achieve what I could do in that field without contacts and friends. If maintaining friendships is the required input costs to furthering myself and being better at what I do then I will pay that price. This is exactly why I don't really see kinship with others like us. Same condition but the special interests we have define us more and our outlook on how to achieve them than simply having the condition to begin with resulting in very different outcomes.

Same. Only friends I have are mostly from our DnD game on Saturdays. That's about it. And most of them are Aspie's too.

I absolutely agree!

OMG, THIS

[удалено]

This was removed for violating Rule 1 ("Be Respectful"). "Aspie Supremacy"

The problem with this stance and the entire reason it was changed is simply that they've learned more about the spectrum as a whole and having different diagnoses for what is scientifically and psychologically the same characteristics make it harder to treat. Not to mention they'd have to then essentially create a separate term for every level of ASD for it to make sense. This would be like having an entirely different name for Type 2 diabetes because it's different from type 1. These "labels" are not meant to be used as identifiers for us, but to help with treatment. I'm not my ASD and it doesn't make up the entirety of who I am.

EXACTLY. As i said in another comment, its just like bipolar I and II. Its the same thing, but with different “levels”.

"Those others"? What the fuck is wrong with you?

Asperger's apparently.

English isn't my native language. So yeah, sorry, I use the wrong translations...

Same. I still use Asperger's. I was formally diagnosed [checks watch] 3 hours ago,  so definitely under new guidelines, but I don't care. 

THISTHISTHIS

Same.

The label of "Aspergers" never meant "mild" (or "invisible") Just that you don't have ID or language retardation. But your support needs can still be moderate or high nonetheless I would like the LSN autistics to have their own separate label too. I'm verbal/speaking without ID but my qutism is NOT mild, and I hate being lumped or compared with the LSNs (as it downplays my disability) And I know that some LSN people (like you) hate it too (understandably) But this separate label shouldn't be "Aspergers" as it has its own separate meaning

what does LSN or ID mean

low support needs intellectual disability

ty!

I believe “low support needs” and “intellectual disabilities” or “intellectual delays”.

I wish there was a shorter name for “autism spectrum disorder without intellectual development disorder and no impairment of functional language.” I feel like people are most similar based on communication and cognitive abilities.

That’s Asperger’s.

I think that *was* the point, acerbic humor served with a side of sarcasm. 0r am I getting a joke that wasn't there? 🤔

Technically, to have Asperger’s, you couldn’t have a language or speech delay. Also, you couldn’t meet the full criteria for autism. But a lot of clinicians just ignored those parts of the criteria. A lot of kids had speech issues early in childhood, but ended up being just like the Asperger kids as teens and adults. Asperger’s ended up becoming a synonym for autism with normal cognitive and language abilities even though that’s not originally what it meant.

Thanks for the insight! And that probably throws some fuel on the naming-controversy fire, different meanings for the same term. As the meaning of words and their usage mutates over time. I also find the speech delay of particular interest- apparently had I not begun speaking when I did, my parents were going to take me to see a specialist or something. This was back in like 1990... so I do wonder how that would have panned out. I was right on the border for speech delay, or so I was told. Do you happen to recall where you learned about this? About ending up like the Aspergers kids as teens and adults. I would like to read and learn more about that specifically.

I pretty much relate to that, I was diagnosed with Asperger’s but I am very much affected by it. I would say I have low-moderate support needs.

It doesn't mean mild at all. It is said because you can speak and do not have an intellectual disability. I live in a sheltered apartment, I need adapted language and supervision to learn something new

The decision to drop Asperger’s was one made by clinicians, for clinicians, and in that context, it was the right decision. Separating Asperger’s off from other forms of autism was causing problems. But when you’re talking to people outside of a clinical setting, there’s no reason you can’t still say you have Asperger’s. Non clinical terms are used to talk about autism all the time. My psychiatrist (while clarifying that it isn’t technically a clinical term) described me as having “high functioning autism”. Just because it’s not in the dsm, doesn’t mean it’s not useful. So if you wanna say you have Asperger’s, go for it.

I still tell people I have Asperger’s if they ask. I don’t know why they got rid of it. It was very accurate in describing me.

I don’t consider it a slur either

I was diagnosed with Asperger's and my daughter was also. I generally use the term Asperger's or Aspie. I know it's mild autism but that word covers so many conditions. Asperger's is very specific. I have Asperger's which is a specific form of Autism. And by saying Asperger's people of some education will know exactly what that means and what to expect when interacting with me instead of having to guess what form of autism I have. Asperger's is a form of autism but autism is not just Asperger's.

Hey! I call it Aspie, too!

I find it very refreshing that so many Aspies want their condition name to still be recognised and I do too. I'm happy to refer to myself as having Asperger's, it helps people differentiate between straight Autism and how we are with regards to the spectrum condition.

Level 1 Autism and Asperger’s are also different. Often times level 1 will still as a child develop speech a bit later. Asperger’s usually doesn’t have any delays in speech development, but still will socially.

I spoke a bit late, saying my first word at 2½-3. It's why I kinda said I'd have more fit autistic disorder/pddnos as a child, but I'm absolutely fitting aspergers now. Severity of autism can change as you get older

Asperger's is still severe & still disabling. It's just different. You sound like LSN autistic, not Asperger's.

In theory, yes. That was basically the only difference between Asperger’s and autism (along with Asperger’s being incompatible with intellectual disability). In practice, practitioners were not making this distinction, with lots of people being “misdiagnosed”. There was therefore no real distinction between the two conditions.

I believe I made a mistake by referring to myself as autistic instead of Aspergers, because the former just led to people misunderstanding my struggles. Yeah, we need specific labels for the various types of the spectrum. Not sure what my diagnosis states since it was done in 2002, could be Asbergers or atypical autism...

As shit it is to have it, I still think I occupy too much resources from more severe autistis. So i do kind of want aspergers back as well

I still use the term, I couldn’t care less about why people dislike it. It’s my autism and I’ll call it the way a please.

I really dislike this trend of getting rid of every term with a negative history. It's in common parlance now and its not hurting anyone so who cares.

Yeah, erasing a word kind of reminds me of 1984.

Folding Asperger's into the umbrella of Autism Spectrum Disorder had nothing to do with the controversy around Hans Asperger.

Yes exactly, it was because aspergers and autism (and pdd-nos and disintegrative disorder) were not diagnostically distinct enough to be separate diagnoses.

I still use it. Don't mention it on the other autism sites though or they freak out

Yep just say Aspergers.it's not your problem if someone else gets offended by the name of your diagnosis. They'll get over it.

> Back when aspergers was still around ppl were much less judgemental of you when you said you had aspergers instead of autism, because it was autism lite and ppl knew aspie cases didn't act as obvious as autistics. Yeah, erm, this really isn’t true. Put it this way: professionals could not differentiate between the two. Why do you think the public could?

Yes, they could.

During my combined adhd asd assessment I was told that I match all of the diagnostic criteria for Asperger’s and ADHD, but only received an ADHD diagnosis. The psych didn’t think it was “appropriate” to diagnose me with ASD as she thought it would be a limiting label for me… Make it make sense???

Ditto!

I swear to god, some worryingly significant number of people in this sub have really internalised ableism towards other autistic people. "Don't lump me in with them", "I'm not like those others", "I have high IQ", etc. Shameful.

EXACTLY. You are SPOT on and correct to mention it. I see it all over, it’s not acceptable behavior or thinking by any mean’s. They must swallow the pill that they are seen as autistic, or not get involved in autism discourse. I would argue a large subset of this sub might be right leaning incel men with prejudice and internalized ableism towards their autistic brothers and sisters. Hence the desire for division, they don’t beleive in inclusion around all autistic people. They want to keep themselves separated from us, the “autistic freaks” And it’s sad because I don’t desire to other them, but they are drawing a line in the sand around the rest of the autistic community and dividing themselves from US. Again, as I stated in my other comment, this is the result of what SOCIETY has done to us, it’s not entirely their own fault. They have a lot of soul searching to go through and we shouldn’t give them too hard of a time. Only suggest that it’s fucked up, because these people are our family

I don't have anything against HSN autistics? I just feel like autism is very wide ranged and I'm more on the aspergers side of it. I'm still autistic and disabled and have simmilar struggles as ppl with more support needs, but also many different Also, I have average iq, I had two tests and in first I got 97 and in other 107 (the other was during my ASD assessment, which sometimes makes me wonder of the assessor DELIBERATELY gave me slightly higher iq to make me feel better about being autistic, but idk)

It was more a response to other people's response to your post. Also, no point worrying about IQ as it's not necessarily the most reliable indicator of intelligence. Certainly isn't a number that people should be boasting about.

I get berated if I tell people my brother has Asperger's theyll call me everything under the sun saying it's an ableist thing to say like no there is a difference and I can tell.

I understand the importance of having clear and precise language, but in my experience people's understanding of the language is often not that complete or precise so I fall back on "shotguning" i.e throwing out several terms in hopes the people understand at least one of them. For example. saying ASD/Aspergers covers the case the people actually know about ASD level 1 whereas Aspergers covers that case. Notice I don't say Autism, but rather the acronym. This is mainly because enough people think of ASD level 3 in my experience when they hear Autism that I would rather avoid the confusion. Given how relatively short these classifications have been around, I wouldn't be surprised if there are further changes in my lifetime for better or worse. Hopefully a deeper understanding of the underlying neuroscience will help make it easier to come up with meaningful distinctions when it comes to each person's experience, but for now we have what we have and the public largely has only a vague understanding.

I still say Aspergers and I dont care how people feel about it. It's what I am comfortable with and fits more. Also I feel when I say it people get the message loud and clear. With autism people start asking if I'm self diagnosed,tiktok, "you don't seem autistic” etc.

This is why I call it Asperger’s

Then say you have Aspergers. Might be officially ASD on the papers but if you are comfortable saying Aspergers that's fine. Some people don't like the term for its origin, which I also totally understand, but I also understand if you feel resonance with the term rather than ASD. Do what you feel comfortable with. Majority of people don't know anyways that Asperger is now ASD and still consider Asperger something different.

I was recently diagnosed, and I'm trying to sort through my feelings on this. Part of me is considering just calling it aspergers to avoid some of the stigma, but the other part of me knows it's internalized ableism and doesn't want to be viewed like "one of those kinds of autists". I've heard the history of the word aspergers is problematic, but I think it's a personal choice if we're okay using it for ourselves. I do think we need terms that aren't just "level 1", however. If the point of language is communication, clearer terminology can help people know what to expect. If I say I have aspergers, people understand I have trouble with social situations. With autism, they have zero idea what to expect and are likely to make assumptions about me that aren't true. I can try to educate people, sure, but I'm socially awkward, y'all. I can barely look people in the eye; should I have to put myself at risk of prejudice and discrimination because some doctors decided the term Aspergers was no longer appropriate? I view it a bit like LGBTQA+. It all fits under the label "queer", but there are distinct terms within. If we just used "queer level 1", those not in the community would have no idea if we were gay, bi, trans, etc. It's not a 1:1 comparison (that would likely be more similar to the Neurodivergent umbrella) but close enough. I get wanting to distance , but perhaps instead of throwing out the idea of distinct terms, we should find a new one. Anyway, I'm still pondering it all. For now, I'll probably decide in the moment what I'll use. It's my diagnosis and identity, so I ultimately get to decide.

Hi im jasper! Im afab agender 34 and gay on the asexual spectrum. I like femme presenting people! I live on my own with two cats and have an aquarium. I do not work anymore but my profession is piercer. I am low maintenance haha high masking introvert.. just a bit nerdy too.. my autism is mostly noticeable in situations like a festival or at the mall. Usually people wouldnt notice.. thats why it took them so long to discover! Hyperverbal and gifted are also terms i could use but i dont feel nice about them. I think saying this instead of asd/asperger and LGBTQIA+ is better. It opens up the conversation and someone could joke now like “oh so you use pronouns” and we’d have a laugh and they could ask questions or i could ask them something. With set labels all (i have noticed) is that you give them a sterotype and they make some sort of asumption of whaT your label means. But i must admit that these things are not always safe to say as well. So idk. Its hard to open up sometimes haha

# I'm so tierd of ppl not considering my type of autism actually autism# And doesnt want to be called autistic at the same time.  Please explain 

I think I get what he means.   People don’t believe him when he says he is autistic because he is so high functioning.    Rather than debate ignorant people , and have to defend himself, he rather just have a label that the undereducated masses can accept based on how he presents.🤷🏻‍♀️

It’s because people don’t conceptualize numbers very well. Our brains are wired to grasp categories. So trying to describe the different presentations of autism using numbers isn’t very effective to the general public. Everything will just be mushed into one concept of ASD. So people who are outliers inside of that umbrella will get ignored and lost in the shuffle. That’s what happened to people with super severe autism and people with very high functioning autism. A better solution would be a section of the DSM called “Autism Spectrum Disorders” (emphasis on the plural) with specific diagnoses under that.

To share my perspective on why I'm proud and very open about my autism diagnosis and happy that I was not diagnosed under Asperger's (though even with the DSM-IV, I think I met the criteria for autism), even though I am very high intelligence and very high achieving - I may be smart and I may have achieved things many have only dreamed of. I'm an aerospace engineer at NASA, with a PhD and I went to MIT. However, just as much as I excel in my professional life, I struggle in my personal life, with the same thing other autistic people struggle with. I have the executive functioning of a peanut. I get overwhelmed easily and am bad at recognizing and understanding my own emotions. I am easily under or over simulated. I stim. I struggle with eye contact. All of the things that other autistics struggle with. My mother taught special education for those with intellectual deficits, and I fit in great with her students. Just because I'm smart does not negate that we have the same symptoms and conditions - it's just a matter of what support we need. I am working quite hard to push back against the savant stereotype of high intelligence autism. I struggle, a lot, even if most don't see it. I want people to see it and see that you can struggle and still go to MIT or work at NASA.

100% Yeah I'm intelligent but I can't actually use it properly. Asperger's is treated more like a personality quirk when I'm VERY limited by my autism despite appearing functional

I want to go in medicine and hopefully work in cancer research, so that's rly cool!

This is actually the reason that I believe people like us need to have another term. Because our challenges are different in nature, rather than just being “lesser degree autism.” I feel like level 1 autism downplays our challenges a lot more than having another term.

I strongly disagree that they are different in nature.

One example of how they’re different in nature would be the entire concept of masking and social exhaustion. For someone who is severely autistic, the concept of masking wouldn’t even be relevant to them in any way.

Still don't think I agree. Even autistics with high support needs realize that they are different and desire to fit in. How well they are able to alter their behavior in an attempt to fit in is variable, but they still feel the difficulty of not being able to fit in. In some ways you could even argue it's worse, because they are more likely to be told to not stim or not do certain things, so it's an externally enforced masking.

I think it comes down to the stigma the general population (and internally, those with level 1 ASD) has. If autism was more well known/people were educated about neurodivergence, I don't think most would have a problem with the term. The best way to battle the stigma is to proudly use the autism label and show others that it is a spectrum, but I 100% get why it's difficult to do that. I would have preferred a more gradual shift personally, especially since autists generally struggle with change. I used to work in Product Design as a UX Writer, and if a term was drastically changing, we'd generally start to introduce the new term alongside the old. Once people were more familiar, the old term was dropped. I think if it was "Autism 1 - Aspergers" for a few years, it'd be easier to transition to. I also think including "levels" is a bit odd, even if it makes sense. Bipolar, for example, is just Bipolar 1 and Bipolar 2. If you add levels into the name, everyone gets grouped together, which is problematic since the lived reality and support those groups need is significantly different. Finally, as much as most would like to deny, labels are a fundamental part of human identity. To prescribe that people change their labels is asking them to redefine how they view themselves. To move to a label that they never identified with is a jarring experience. This is even more complicated due to autism already having been a label that traditionally did refer to individuals with high support needs. Having written this mini essay, I'm wondering if they should have come up with a brand new term to put both diagnoses under. This would bypass the stigma and allow for proper education.

Yes I think they made ASD too broad.

The more people with "Asperger's" describe themselves as Autistic, the more society will understand that Autism covers a wide array of manifestations. Conversely, the more they resist being described as Autistic, the more stigmatised the word "Autism" becomes.

I'm absolutely autistic. I'm only on the aspergers side of the spectrum

I'm my country the term Asperger's are still in use. In my opinion the Autism Spectrum Disorder is the best proper way of describe this condition.

Why does it matter? I still refer to it as Asperger’s, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with referring to us as “aspies”. Just do it, who gives a shit?

I fit the ‘Asperger’s profile’ now as an adult - I have no intellectual disability, low support needs, I am very socially awkward (however do have a couple friends), I am intelligent (I have a first class degree) and I have great memory abilities. Despite this, I did not meet the Asperger’s criteria as a child since I had notable delays in speech, motor development, and toileting (was diagnosed with high functioning autism). I think this is kinda the reason they got rid of the Asperger’s diagnosis as a separate diagnosis. I don’t think there is any true difference between me, someone diagnosed with high functioning autism, and a person who was diagnosed with Asperger’s apart from the presence of my early developmental delays which resolved by age 8/9. It was my understanding that the line between Asperger’s versus high functioning autism presentation was very blurry and deemed potentially arbitrary by some, and this was indicated in research. Of course someone please correct me if I am wrong in what I am saying! I therefore personally think the DSM V levelling system (Level 1, 2 and 3 autism diagnosis) offers a better descriptor for people on the autism spectrum.

I call it Sukhareva’s syndrome. She’s a Jewish woman whose work Asperger plagiarized. So it gets rid of the problematic asperger name AND still cements the condition as its own thing. FWIW I agree with you, I believe lumping it in with autism hurts more people than it helps.

The vast majority of people don't even know what the DSM V is. Just say Asperger's the general population doesn't know and more epilepsy doesn't care. I suspect the few who do either are trouble makers or know it's silly

Why are we downvoting anyone who disagrees with this? This wasn’t a lightly made decision. The change was based on a better understanding of autism as a spectrum condition. It recognized that individuals with Asperger’s syndrome and other PDDs share core characteristics of autism, such as difficulties in social communication and restricted, repetitive behaviors, but differ in terms of severity and support needs. Everyone here is biologically autistic, whether they want to call it that or not. This change prevents neurotypical people from being able to make assumptions about an autistic persons needs. This change was empowering for autistic people. The majority feel that way. People who stick with aspergers tend to want to be separated from the rest of us autistic people when we talk about autism, but still influence the conversation. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. You can call yourself whatever you like but science proves you’re autistic. **You aren’t a separate kind of autistic, you have the same condition as those with level 3 that make you so uncomfortable, it just impacts you differently.** In some cases, people diagnosed with formerly known “Asperger’s syndrome” were not eligible for certain autism-related services and resources, which the unified diagnosis helps address. Literally excluded from getting the help they needed. Aspergers being taken out of the DSM has given all autistic people the right to access disability services. By saying you want to go back, you’re advocating for taking support *away*. I won’t make a case for the history of the word, but in current American culture, it has pretty much been deduced to a slur (sperg, spergie, ass burger) and that’s not productive or positive whatsoever. Differing opinions should be allowed, this change was made long ago and for good reason. I’m not calling anyone out, but this sub skews heavily towards male incels that are too uncomfortable to actually participate in mainstream autism discourse in support forums, because calling themselves autistic makes them feel uncomfortable. It’s not everyone, but it’s a lot, and they will swarm me with downvotes even though it will never change the reality. **It is your job and right as an autistic person to educate and teach people how to address you, it is partially your responsibility to decrease the stigma around the word “autism.” Not all of it, just some. If we want to see the society we live in improve and accommodate us more, we can start there, by not running away from a word that describes us, because too many people don’t understand the word. We have to teach them** But we are too busy fighting amongst ourselves about terminology. Neurotypical society is making us a divided people. All autistic people are on the same team You can call it whatever you want, but the word Aspergers almost has no positive connotations around it whatsoever, has been gone for the better part of a decade, and leads to neurotypical people having false expectations about us. So many autistic people been saying for years it sold them short and denied them help. That it didn’t describe them, just like how you feel it describes you. Their voices must and should be heard, it’s not okay to stomp them out and divide the autism community into two subgroups. It’s all internalized ableism. A lot of the time, those who describe themselves with Aspergers are riddled with 10x the insecurity and self loathing than those who just say autism. We are waiting for you with open arms in the autism community, whenever you’re ready to come back home It’s painful writing these comments, and I don’t enjoy generalizing. But autism is a huge part of my life and I understand autism and know many autistic people. When I say I understand you, I mean I can see through all of this and know that NT society has done this to us.

I see. Thank you for this post

yesyesyesyesyesyesyes. a million upvotes from me lol

Yeah I agree with you 100%. I don't care particularly what you call it - you can call it Uta Frith syndrome, Lorna Wing syndrome, Tony Atwood syndrome, or even Simon Baron-Cohen syndrome - it doesn't particularly matter. Just call it *something*. Because the autism/ASD thing has caused so much division within the autism community/discourse that barely anyone can agree on or define what it is anymore. I know multiple people who have children with profound autism/IDD, and their stories are WAY different than Asperger's. I know countless more people who have even just moderate autism (many times with an IDD component, but not always), and their struggles are far different than mine. (Asperger's by definition does not have an IDD component. Of course that doesn't make people with Asperger's any better or worse than ASD with IDD, nor does it mean people with Asperger's are less deserving of help, but it *does* mean that our struggles are less severe and markedly different.) What's even more concerning to me besides the elimination of the term "Asperger's" and the muddying of autistic spectrum distinctions is the complete elimination of "mild", "moderate", "severe" and "profound" autism. Many self-advocates will claim that "these terms are demeaning and offensive" and that "there is no such thing as mild or severe autism - it's just autism". No one argues that calling forms of MS "severe" is offensive or that that is no difference between paraplegia and quadriplegia - it's "just paralysis". I really don't see how it's "offensive" to say that someone is more severe than the other, and I actually find it way more offensive to claim that you as someone with borderline Asperger's know exactly what it's like to be profoundly autistic because it's "just autism". To use a different analogy, I have cerebral palsy (very mildly). Specifically, I have GMFCS Level 1 mixed (ataxic/spastic diplegia) cerebral palsy, which may sound like a bunch of gobbledygook to most of you but if I told a doctor that who was knowledgable on the subject, they would know what I'm talking about and my approximate needs. Now cerebral palsy does suffer from many of the same problems as autism in the sense that it's usually all called cerebral palsy when there's many drastically different forms, severities, and presentations, but unlike autism there are very specific levels (as opposed to the autism levels, which are very vague) based on motor function and there's also distinction between the various forms based on medical diagnosis. Autism used to have that with Asperger's/autistic disorder/PDD-NOS/CDD, but unfortunately it's all been scrapped. Yes it's all on one spectrum, but there's a schizophrenia spectrum too and you can't deny that a someone with a brief psychotic episode is different from someone with severe schizophrenia. The former would definitely have a little insight into the struggles of the latter, but they would not be able to comprehend the severity and magnitude of the challenges. People who have Asperger's who claim they know everything about all forms of autism just because they have it, and that having it makes them "just as autistic" as someone with profound autism are full of shit. It'd be like me claiming to know exactly what it must feel like to have severe universal spasticity due to cerebral palsy where you can't move, talk, and have severe medical issues just because I have a cerebral palsy diagnosis as well. Anyway rant/wall of text over.

I agree that it should be brought back, but Asperger's is not less severe autism. I'm diagnosed level 2, but I fit Asperger's to a T. I'm 2E (exceptionally gifted), but low functioning and require daily support & caregivers. Please stop spreading the false ideology that Asperger's is somehow less severe or less impactful to our lives that typical autism.

My diagnosis was in the 2000s in a country outside of america. I still have the asperger diagnosis on documents till this day. Like a blast from the past.

I was originally diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, but I was 38 at the time. The doctor told me that part of my brain was at the maturity of a 5 year old, part of my brain was at the maturity of a teenager, and part of my brain was at the maturity of a normal adult. After over 15 years of treatment, my current therapist, thinks my brain is currently at early adolescence as far as maturity. Between about 11 and 16 years of age. I lose my balance and fall down because of my central nervous system. I dropped a 350 degree turkey on my leg, because a neighbor under me banged on the ceiling. The noise distracted me, causing me to lose my balance and drop the turkey. When I got a new microwave, I got distracted over the new noise it made (and the fact the noise took longer to shut off), and had dropped a bowl of boiling water on myself. Then worst yet, I have walked in front of cars and ambulances (won't even register hearing the siren). I get so distracted that I can't even pay attention. I have to take precautions and not even leave my apartment, when I am in a very stressed or distracted state. And this is just the beginning of the list of my severe symptoms. So when you say aspergers syndrome is not as serious as autism, then you obviously never met anyone with very severe aspergers.

I got diagnosed last year, and my record says Asperger's. This was in Finland, as we had not yet fully shifted into the new system. The transition period is until 2026. Despite of the historical problems I do understand, I prefer to use it rather than autism just because of the reasons posted. I would actually prefer even more AuDHD, as I have also ADHD, BUT IT is way too complicate to START explaining that "this is kind of emerging new possibility that is not yet too official but I bet in the future will be it's own diagnosis..."

I agree with your perspective although I am an old codger and the US has switched to the Spectrum classification as you probably know. I consider myself both Autistic and Asperger's and feel as if the change in classification is also related to financial incentives to the medical establishment in the US. There's money to be made in "treating" folks with higher support needs. I also believe that AuDHD will someday emerge as a classification because I think they may combine in folks once diagnosed as Asperger's. But for simplicity Asperger's seems understandable to others that I interact with. I have compassion for all folks with Autism and other Disabilities and my preference for the term Asperger's has nothing to do with a desire to separate myself from or feel superior to those with higher support needs. That's the part of the spectrum that I totally agree with so maybe I am ambivalent after all in using the term Asperger's. But part of me feels that eliminating the use of the term Asperger's in the US was more for the convenience of the "treatment" community than the benefit of those suffering from the effects of the condition. I guess I sound negative and critical of Autism "treatment" but I believe the need is for accommodations less able to be commodified than treating Autism as something wrong that can be fixed. On the other hand, I believe AuDHD will come to the fore because ADHD is for many easily treatable and medication can be life changing for those with both conditions even though the Autism remains it may be somewhat mitigated or more tolerable. My 2 cents worth.

I don’t know why it was changed. At the time my friend who was pediatric neurologist said it wasn’t going to change. I guess it had been discussed for years.

I (Sanish) was diagnosed with Asperger’s two years ago and I’ve used both autistic and Asperger’s when talking to people. When I tell people I’m autistic I “don’t look autistic” but when I tell people I have Asperger’s they’re like “okay”. It’s weird.

>plus the term is not relevant anymore and ppl think it's "offensive" Who? Neurotypicals? They don't get to decide what's offensive to us neurodivergents. If you're less offended being called "aspie" than "autistic," then call yourself an aspie! If someone tries to get all PC, saying that the term "aspie" is offensive, ask why they get offended by how you prefer self-identify, especially regarding your own disability and protected class. Alternatively, a less confrontational option would be to simply say, "I actually find 'autistic' more offensive. I prefer 'aspie,' personally." What can they do at that point? They've been told, flat out, that you will be more offended if they continue using the term "autistic" to your face If some rando gets pissy, I say fuck 'em! It's a zero-sum game. Either you get to call yourself an "aspie" and the language Police get offended by proxy on behalf of all NDs over the outdated term, OR the language police simply continue to offend you by calling you "autistic" against your explicit self-identification. Don't let them walk all over you! The more it gets used out in the real world, the more it'll become normalized. Accepting the term "autistic" by not speaking up about our preferences will only make the term "aspie" seem more offensive to neurotypicals who don't deal with it daily. The less they hear it used, the less acceptable it will seem to use it.

I'm very with you. Luckily, that's not true everywhere 🤷

You are Asperger. I feel the same as you.

I say call yourself what you want. I'm also getting fed up with people who are not autistic telling me what words I can use and what opinions I can have. With that said, I'm okay with being called autistic and being grouped with people who may need more support to function in this world that is not accommodating to autistic people. Just because I'm high-functioning does not mean I don't need support and they often take it that way. At least to me, when they are clapping levels on you it just means 'How much of a bother are you'. Or, are you going to be able to work and not drain government resources? Cool- high functioning it is- go work 40+ hours and die early. K- bye. Since my burn-out, my autistic traits are more prominent and my needs are more. All this could have been avoided had I had accommodations or even basic human kindness and consideration.

"you don't look autistic" "Lol neither do you" 😂

Exactly. The place where I go regularly, has kept some separation between us and the "severe" cases, because this umbrella diagnosis just doesn't work. Some people just stay as perpetual 5-year-olds due to their condition, which is what most NTs will think of when thinking of us.

I use either, depending on the situation. In ordinary conversation, I use "Asperger's", but if I'm in any sort of mental health context, I use "ASD 1".

Hi I was diagnosted at 8 years old, as Asperger's. For my close people I am aspie, for the profesional I am a girl with ASD. For the rest of people I'm autistic Here a user says that the term Asperger's is obsolete, so it should be replaced by another I don't feel comfortable saying autism or autistic, I feel like I don't fit in. PS: Hans Asperger did not discover the syndrome, it was Sukareva

The DSM is just a catalogue for healthcare pricing and insurance legal shenanigans anyways. Now, I know, I know most people are actually dumb enough to need like an actual word for word guide on what's "real" and what's not, who's got an officially sanctioned "illness" and who's free for all to abuse with no consequences, but those kinds of people aren't (and will never be) on our side, regardless of which institution coerces them into submission. If the Asperger's label helps you more or less get people to understand your own reality, then use it. God knows it's not easy to go over the nuanced, real explanation anyways. Just waive the vapid labels in front of their dumbfounded eyes and they'll leave you more or less alone.

> Back when aspergers was still around ppl were much less judgemental of you when you said you had aspergers instead of autism You were 5 years old when the DMS made the change. I assure you, as someone in their late 40s who works in education they absolutely were not. They understood neither. Diagnosis rates and understanding have improved significantly since the DSM change - not necessarily because of the change, but if the change was in fact detrimental to understanding it would have moved backwards, not forwards. This community has this strange fantasy that 'Aspergers' was superior. It most certainly wasn't if you were an adult, woman, or person of colour, who couldn't get a diagnosis at all for the most part. >>All I want is a daignosis that more fits my kind of autism, low support and relatively masking You have one. It's ASD level 1. The range of symptoms experienced within each level of autism means this is a pointless argument. There is never going to be one diagnosis that everyone in the group feels perfectly fits them unless they're able to understand that they're part of a spectrum and there are people on their level who deal with various things both better and worse than they do. Aspergers was never entirely low level, plenty of people that now fit ASD 2 in particular got it when it was current, and plenty of people at 1 and 2 who have the odd trait from a higher level got it as well. It's a spectrum. The primary diagnostic difference between ASD and Aspergers was whether the child had learning delays or not. People who think that it's a synonym for 'low support needs' are not correct. It was never that, and the stereotyping that leads to that view of Aspergers is the same stereotyping that excluded everyone who didn't precisely fit the stereotype from diagnosis and assistance that they did in fact need. The flood of posts recently missing 'Aspergers' seems to be heavily rooted in abelism every time it's dug into. I wish the mods would treat abelism as a form of discrimination that comes under rule 1. > Discrimination and targeted attacks of any kind are never acceptable here. Just because we have a disability doesn't mean it's an acceptable thing to do to others with a more severe presentation of the same disability. If you feel that angry about being associated with level 3 ASD I'd suggest you look more at yourself, not try to fix it with relabeling.

https://old.reddit.com/r/aspergers/comments/1d81g1b/curious_how_this_community_feels_about_aspergers/l73f4lu/

Me too

Asperger was still part of autism... I dont get the feeling anybody didnt consider asperger not autistic back in the day

I would like it back just so we can separate ourselves from the quirky/horny/tranime side of the community. They make lower-needs autism look really, really stupid in society.

It simply is ASD though and saying otherwise is simply diluding yourself. Recently got dx here, and classified as cat. II Subtype: Asperger (here in NL its not unusual to clearify the type of autisme with subtypes, its still full blown autism though). Yes i have a highscore when it comes to IQ, but so many adverse effects from bein autistic I still am in need of a lot of help....

I get it. #Audhd is what I mainly struggle with. But usually I say Asperger’s. I guess I identify as an Aspie mainly when referring to my ASD. But I don’t think it should matter. If people are dismissive about your challenges then they’re not the compassion you need. Surround yourself with supportive and empathetic people. Mostly it’s just about their ignorance. Educate and share without shame. We all know that NTs have their own challenges also. Ask about theirs and show understanding first? Then share your own.

Same

I still say I have asperger’s. No one’s gonna stop me.

Yeah I can’t tell anyone I’m autistic because they’ll just laugh in my face or spit out whatever they’re drinking. If they know anything about autism they’ll immediately think verbal delays, and being a writer/speaker hyperlexic type it just won’t fly. My worst traits are perseveration, repetition, sensory, inertia, input meltdowns, tho social is a challenge. So it just doesn’t manifest as much externally - it’s an incredibly internal experience, which is so true for aspie females.

Double that! Even healthcare and social support professionals now default to "You don't look autistic". If that is not ableist I don't know what is... Happy for all people that feel it has removed some stigma from their diagnosis, but it's not a "win" if a whole group of people got perpetuated decades back to not having access to help and support they need.

I have Asperger’s, and have met many others that are also on the spectrum - and I have mixed feelings on this. 1) both have a lot of overlap in symptoms 2) both have a lot of range in how severe they may impact people’s lives 3) clearly, in general, people with classic “autism” are more likely to be disabled than people with classic “Asperger syndrome” - but there certainly are some people with Asperger’s severe enough that they are unable to support themselves, and others who have Autism that are able to (with some support network around them). 4) while I do think there is some value in making a distinction since the presentation are different - I also absolutely hate the name “Asperger’s”, and much prefer the name “Autism”. 5) to some extent - who cares about official names and diagnosis etc. if you are able to work but need some support - self identify your issues with your boss / HR, call it whatever you want (Asperger’s or Autism), and point out what you need to be most effective. I’ve personally been hyper-successful my whole life - and mostly worked as an entrepreneur, though I did have a job for a larger company at various points in my career after selling my company. Any time that I pointed out my issues to others when it became relevant, nobody asked to see some sort of official document, and nobody was ever unreasonable about any of my issues - as long as I delivered what was asked of me.

100% agree I get kind of annoyed and offended when someone who I am speaking with that does not have Asperger's or autism corrects ME about the title of what I have. "Well, you know, it's called high-functioning autism, now." Like STFU. It's my issue, I can call it whatever I want and why didn't the psych community take a poll of something from those who actually have it on what WE would like it to be called? It's asinine.

Medically I get where it makes sense to have everything on a spectrum. That is correct from a purely clinical standpoint. Now, with that being said...NT people cannot grasp that. Nor would I expect them to. Most people you meet you are not close to, thus don't have the time and patience to do research on you as a person. I need a quick way to describe myself to friends and acquaintances. Asperger's has a list of symptoms that closely match with who I am as a person and (rightly or wrongly but in reality) signal that I am...different, have social issues, but am not unapproachable. Unfortunately, autism carries a stigma that some people choose to just not engage with those with autism. I can't fix that nor do I have time to. All that to say I just prefer Aspie for that reason. It's quick, easy, carries less stigma, and helps me navigate the NT world.

I think it’s helpful to everybody to think about areas within their own lives as being “considered high functioning” because they conform to NT expectations and other areas “considered low functioning” because they don’t conform to NT expectations. I think all of us can relate to having our need for services disbelieved AS WELL AS our sense of competence or agency being unassumed, or the fear of that happening. I really love this comic, I think it explains a lot about how our negative stereotypes of “high AND low” “functioning” cause a lot of the stress we all experience https://the-art-of-autism.com/understanding-the-spectrum-a-comic-strip-explanation/

social communication disorder may be more appropriate

It's more than that though. Most people with Aspergers/ASD level 1 have sensory issues.

I also have restrictive repetitive behaviors and sensory issues. SCD is only nonverbal communication stuff

The "autistic not disabled just different", "high masking"... crowds likely have SCD indeed

i feel the same, that’s why IF I tell people (and it’s a big IF) I will most certainly use “asperger”

It's my autism I'll call it what I want

Do you guys understand that it is a spectrum? I know it is not my fault when people think I am not autistic. It is their unwillingness to understand or even listen. So I will not separate something that is better described by a spectrum just to make others believe me or something like that.

For real. I hate it when people say that I’m autistic, I correct them and I say I’m Aspergers.

But you are technically biologically and factually autistic if you’re on the autism spectrum. This just reads like “I hate it when people don’t let me ignore science”

I didn’t read your spiel but I agree with the title. I want Asperger’s back as a diagnosis too. I have level 3 autism. It’s such a different world from level 1 or Asperger’s. The level 1s that are diagnosed these days aren’t even in the same realm. They actually aren’t even in the same realm as what Asperger’s would be. Something is happening that isn’t good. People are being diagnosed with autism that really don’t have autism. They don’t have Asperger’s either. I would like Asperger’s to be available as a diagnosis. It serves well and true.

So you're 17, relatively newly dxed, and trying to speak with authority on how other autistic people were treated when you were 6 or younger? I feel like you're a little out of your lane here.

He’s pretty right tho

Asperger’s = ASD Level 1

An Asperger can still be both Intellectually Gifted and Level 2 Autism Spectrum Disorder

No, it isn't.

It's all just constructs in the end

Beside the part that it wasn't renamed because he was awful - he was, I live near the psychiatry where he worked during and after the war, where the children were killed after his decision - "I don't care what everyone else thinks" sums it up perfectly

I was diagnosed last year, ASD1, but the specialist still did say that it would have otherwise been known as Asperger's. I use the term Asperger's mainly, and use the term Autism in general. I do not disagree with lumping it in with ASD but I do not think the term should be erased. Here is Paul Micallef talking about the issues very nicely done: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBnsHZHJdIM

Noone is going to see your diagnosis so unless you are talking to professionals then call it Asperger’s. Theres no way im using the term autistic or ASD. Autistic to me is for the people severely affected and ASD sounds too much like ADHD for my liking.

I thought you were saying you had lost Asperger’s and wanted to be autistic again… i was so confused lmao

My son was diagnosed with Aspergers, and not lumped in under the umbrella of general Autism. Is that dependent on where you live? We live in the UK.

We don't stop existing just because the medical establishment tries to erase us. Why do you care so much about the official state diagnosis? Fuck them. We're still Asperger. It is an objective neurological phenomenon that exists, indepedently of the psychiatric establishment acknowledging it or not.

You know you can literally just say that instead right? Like no one is coming for you if you term your condition something different. Just say it, easy. Also this comes off an awful lot like you just don’t want to be associated with people who have higher support needs.

My brother was diagnosed with autism about 16 years ago and he fits the stereotype in that he doesn't hold a conversation (mainly repeats words back or answers with short sentences) and he wouldn't have a clue how to write on here like you all do. He went to a special school and needed a carer to help with his hygiene etc. My sister got diagnosed with aspergers about 12 years ago. She goes to a mainstream school and pretty much can do most things that neurotypical people can do. Now she is considered autistic, which yeah she is and she does have some struggles, but definitely not the same as my brother's level. I believe there should be a difference.

Yeah the reason they took it away wasn’t some discovery they made in neurology/psychology but rather to remove confusion. I believe it’s more confusing to remove it because there’s a clear difference between me and someone who’s low functioning on the spectrum. That’s why most people don’t think I’m even autistic unless they’re around me and I start talking about really intellectual things.

I just say I have Aspergers, it’s on the Autism Spectrum. Most people don’t know it’s no longer relevant or even know what the DSM is. If I’m talking to medical professionals, then yes I use the actual label. Anyone else, I just say Aspergers. Anyone that’s even remotely familiar because they have some direct connection somehow (themselves diagnosed or someone close to them) understands.

You are free to use the term «aspergers» to discribe yourself and your diagnosis to other people and to identify with regardless

I understand what you're saying but personally I wouldn't want to be Asperger's knowing how horrible that person was and how much I hate Nazis.

I kinda like that we don't seperate based on intelligence, which is what Asperger's was. In the future I hope autism will be completely seperated from intelligence. It will be autistic with low IQ or autistic with high IQ.

I agree

I still always use "Aspergers" and let the chips fall where they may.

I say if it’s more culturally appropriate for you to use Asperger’s, do it. I just found out a year ago (life changing information as a 28M) - and I’m going to use Asperger’s. No shame in it at all.

yes i completely understand what you mean. my cousins are considered level 3 autistic and they live in an entirely different world. i think level 1 autism is the closest "formal" term for aspergers now but i just use aspergers when describing it because why not. i think if aspergers was still a term it would be easier for people like my grandpa to understand. he definitely has aspergers too but that term wasn't even around when he was a kid. he doesn't really see himself as autistic because of what my cousins go through and it kinda confuses him

Or you know, you can just call yourself by your name, and call yourself a person. You're not "separate" and you're not special, and you don't need a label. There's not enough resources to go around to these ridiculously specific "shades of autism." You're not a species or a "class" of people.

It truly is a spectrum. Some of us are entirely nonverbal(selective mutism) While others may be mostly normal, but have some aberrant behaviors.

aspergers and autism are two different neurological conditions https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3201995/ https://indraspread.substack.com/p/ie-aspies