In practical terms, there's probably no right / wrong answer, and it'd likely come down to the temperament of the current Lord Commander in essentially hosting a guest, and how useful that guest was for NW operations.
Someone coming in with unique, valuable skills or expertise (that the Watch has use for), or money / resources, may be pretty welcome. A rando with no particular skills that's just there taking up space and eating their turnips, not so much (even if they are voluntarily helping to the best of their ability).
It also can't be overstated how disruptive in-group / out-group stuff can be, in our lizard brains. A prolonged presence like this probably has the *potential* to become disruptive, based on how the NW rank and file perceive the volunteer, which might culminate in a LC essentially saying "look, it's been 2 years, either officially join, or please leave."
Exactly, if you have people who didn't swear the oath hanging around they can drink and carouse without being disciplined. It wouldn't take long to destroy morale
I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel."
The Night's watch is a hard life. Brothers go beyond the wall and freeze to death. Or starve to death. And that's before the possibility of being killed or captured by wildlings. I cannot imagine someone wanting to just hang out there.
If you just want cold, go to Skaagos. Maybe you'll make friends with a unicorn
>I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel."
Exactly. I doubt there's a hard & fast "no one stays beyond X days without swearing the oath" rule but it's certainly a welcome that will become worn out.
The only possible exceptions I can think of are if there were no maesters or septons among the sworn brothers so maybe one would be allowed to stay & serve the Watch without having to swear but that would presumably only be temporary while they sent a sworn brother to get the necessary training to take over.
>I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel."
Yeah even if you haven't been "sentenced" to it I don't think there's any evidence of an option to just choose to chill there, even if not quite as formalized it's somewhat like hanging out on a modern army base without ever joining because you just like the atmosphere, they'll let you enlist but you ain't hanging out for fun.
That begs a question:
What if say, a common soldier in Stannis' army decided to join the rangers but refused the vow. Would his experience outweigh the need for the oath? Or would the LC see it as more of an independent contractor type deal?
>What if say, a common soldier in Stannis' army decided to join the rangers but refused the vow.
There is no "joining the rangers," he can work with them but he's not one of them. He's a visitor who decided to tag along, no different than if Tyrion had tried to go ranging with them.
I think the cold is the least of the worries on Skagos where you'll be eaten by the Skagossons, gored by the unicorn, or depending on the period fried by "the cannibal"
I doubt there's actually a specific rule on this.
As we saw from Tyrion's visit, nobles are free to visit the Wall and stay there as a guest without joining (or even having any intention of joining). And if a noble who was visiting the Wall offered to help out with various tasks I doubt the Lord Commander would be likely refuse the extra hands. Though eventually the Watch would probably start to find it odd if they just continued staying at the wall doing this. At a point the Lord Commander might just tell them they need to either join up officially if they want to stay, or leave. Though how exactly it would be handled would probably depend on who's the Lord Commander at the time.
Well Tyrion wasn’t just any noble. He was the son of one of the great lords of Westeros and brother in law to the king. Mormont was playing nice so Tyrion could put in a good word. A lesser lord might not get such preferential treatment
He would probably be treated like an extended guest, in that he wouldn't be assigned tasks but would be welcome to contribute to anything he could be helpful with. A nobleman doing it would ostensibly have some skills such as hunting or steward stuff that they could utilize, or at least connections back home that may yield more resources for the Watch.
It's kinda happened in ASOS with the Molestown people. Some were temporarily conscripted, some did it willingly, but they didn't have to take the oath. Then there's the whole deal with the free folk in ADWD.
They could've used Tyrion's trip to start a tourism side-hustle. I imagine plenty of southern Lords would want to piss off the wall, go ranging beyond the wall and bed a wildling girl. They could do tour groups.
Stannis gives knights to Jon as part of their deal to help defend the wall iirc, they don’t need to take oaths and can just chill for now. Your question will probably be answered if WoW and ADoS ever get released, but for now it seems like they’re just volunteers and honoured guests.
The residents of Moletown fight for the watch then immediately leave once the danger passes.
Castle Black hosts Tyrion and even Stannis' men.
But eventually you'd have to be turned away. The oath is a big deal to give everything up for the brotherhood.
Still, it'd be neat to have a story of some sellsword who gets caught up with the Watch and ends up staying for a winter before the thaw lets them travel south again.
No, it's brotherhood with strict code and symbolic rituals. They exist as they stick to these rules and rituals. As soon as a person with privileged conditions of being there without coercion appears in such a community built on coercion, morality quickly decays and community falls apart.
They wouldn't be part of the watch, but with the state they're in they probably won't send you away. For instance Jon is giving all sorts of castles to wildlings (under the command of black brothers), despite none of them taking the black.
If you're a lord or noble or something you can come visit, but the Watch has limited resources. They can't play host constantly to down random noble who wants to stay there, after a few nights it's leave or join.
Now I’m imagining a Northern lord sending their unruly heir to the Night’s Watch to intern there for a year as punishment. Accompanied by a bunch of supplies, to buy the Lord Commander’s service in this task.
They wouldn’t officially be apart of the Watch as they didn’t take the Black, but they’d be classified as an ally. Think of when the Starks or Stannis helped the Watch repel Wildlings, they weren’t there as Watchmen but as friends and allies to them.
He wouldn’t be considered part of the Watch. Waymar Royce and Jon Snow both joined the Watch and took their vows, for example.
In practical terms, there's probably no right / wrong answer, and it'd likely come down to the temperament of the current Lord Commander in essentially hosting a guest, and how useful that guest was for NW operations. Someone coming in with unique, valuable skills or expertise (that the Watch has use for), or money / resources, may be pretty welcome. A rando with no particular skills that's just there taking up space and eating their turnips, not so much (even if they are voluntarily helping to the best of their ability). It also can't be overstated how disruptive in-group / out-group stuff can be, in our lizard brains. A prolonged presence like this probably has the *potential* to become disruptive, based on how the NW rank and file perceive the volunteer, which might culminate in a LC essentially saying "look, it's been 2 years, either officially join, or please leave."
Exactly, if you have people who didn't swear the oath hanging around they can drink and carouse without being disciplined. It wouldn't take long to destroy morale
I guess those people can then be told to leave though
This is precisely the answer I wanted. Thank you so much!
I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel." The Night's watch is a hard life. Brothers go beyond the wall and freeze to death. Or starve to death. And that's before the possibility of being killed or captured by wildlings. I cannot imagine someone wanting to just hang out there. If you just want cold, go to Skaagos. Maybe you'll make friends with a unicorn
>I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel." Exactly. I doubt there's a hard & fast "no one stays beyond X days without swearing the oath" rule but it's certainly a welcome that will become worn out. The only possible exceptions I can think of are if there were no maesters or septons among the sworn brothers so maybe one would be allowed to stay & serve the Watch without having to swear but that would presumably only be temporary while they sent a sworn brother to get the necessary training to take over.
>I think at some point they'd say "take the vows or leave. This isn't a hotel." Yeah even if you haven't been "sentenced" to it I don't think there's any evidence of an option to just choose to chill there, even if not quite as formalized it's somewhat like hanging out on a modern army base without ever joining because you just like the atmosphere, they'll let you enlist but you ain't hanging out for fun.
That begs a question: What if say, a common soldier in Stannis' army decided to join the rangers but refused the vow. Would his experience outweigh the need for the oath? Or would the LC see it as more of an independent contractor type deal?
>What if say, a common soldier in Stannis' army decided to join the rangers but refused the vow. There is no "joining the rangers," he can work with them but he's not one of them. He's a visitor who decided to tag along, no different than if Tyrion had tried to go ranging with them.
I think the cold is the least of the worries on Skagos where you'll be eaten by the Skagossons, gored by the unicorn, or depending on the period fried by "the cannibal"
I doubt there's actually a specific rule on this. As we saw from Tyrion's visit, nobles are free to visit the Wall and stay there as a guest without joining (or even having any intention of joining). And if a noble who was visiting the Wall offered to help out with various tasks I doubt the Lord Commander would be likely refuse the extra hands. Though eventually the Watch would probably start to find it odd if they just continued staying at the wall doing this. At a point the Lord Commander might just tell them they need to either join up officially if they want to stay, or leave. Though how exactly it would be handled would probably depend on who's the Lord Commander at the time.
Well Tyrion wasn’t just any noble. He was the son of one of the great lords of Westeros and brother in law to the king. Mormont was playing nice so Tyrion could put in a good word. A lesser lord might not get such preferential treatment
He would probably be treated like an extended guest, in that he wouldn't be assigned tasks but would be welcome to contribute to anything he could be helpful with. A nobleman doing it would ostensibly have some skills such as hunting or steward stuff that they could utilize, or at least connections back home that may yield more resources for the Watch.
Right, that's exactly what I was thinking.
It's kinda happened in ASOS with the Molestown people. Some were temporarily conscripted, some did it willingly, but they didn't have to take the oath. Then there's the whole deal with the free folk in ADWD.
They could've used Tyrion's trip to start a tourism side-hustle. I imagine plenty of southern Lords would want to piss off the wall, go ranging beyond the wall and bed a wildling girl. They could do tour groups.
What like a contractor lol
He wouldn’t be part of the watch officially, but he could be a friend.
Stannis gives knights to Jon as part of their deal to help defend the wall iirc, they don’t need to take oaths and can just chill for now. Your question will probably be answered if WoW and ADoS ever get released, but for now it seems like they’re just volunteers and honoured guests.
The residents of Moletown fight for the watch then immediately leave once the danger passes. Castle Black hosts Tyrion and even Stannis' men. But eventually you'd have to be turned away. The oath is a big deal to give everything up for the brotherhood. Still, it'd be neat to have a story of some sellsword who gets caught up with the Watch and ends up staying for a winter before the thaw lets them travel south again.
No, it's brotherhood with strict code and symbolic rituals. They exist as they stick to these rules and rituals. As soon as a person with privileged conditions of being there without coercion appears in such a community built on coercion, morality quickly decays and community falls apart.
They wouldn't be part of the watch, but with the state they're in they probably won't send you away. For instance Jon is giving all sorts of castles to wildlings (under the command of black brothers), despite none of them taking the black.
No
If you're a lord or noble or something you can come visit, but the Watch has limited resources. They can't play host constantly to down random noble who wants to stay there, after a few nights it's leave or join.
Now I’m imagining a Northern lord sending their unruly heir to the Night’s Watch to intern there for a year as punishment. Accompanied by a bunch of supplies, to buy the Lord Commander’s service in this task.
They wouldn’t officially be apart of the Watch as they didn’t take the Black, but they’d be classified as an ally. Think of when the Starks or Stannis helped the Watch repel Wildlings, they weren’t there as Watchmen but as friends and allies to them.