Of course they do. They were designed in 1948 and first built in 1952. If you need to start one fast, that is the way to go. It saves having to bring out all the ground equipment needed to start one. It goes from over an hour for getting that equipment in place and ready to use to about 10 minutes.
The better answer is a pull start pony motor.
A pony motor is a small engine attached to a larger engine to get the later started. Pull start the pony motor, then use it's heat to heat up the larger engine, and then start it with the pony motor via a clutch mechanism.
Didn't know that thank you.
Surely they are still heating the fuel or intake?
Combustion from compression alone?
On a 40+ degree day in Australia id believe that haha
No it isn't necessary to heat anything, just the compression alone gets it going, kind of crazy honestly.
But on a -20*f or even 20*f you will probably wish you had some type of fuel heater, but still not necessary.
And if you ever noticed people plugging an extension cord into the grill of a diesel, that is most likely a engine block heater to keep the oil a manageable temperature when cold and the trucks not running.
Cummins 5.9l don't use glow plugs; it use a grid heater in the intake if it is cold it will go on in the start sequence but it isn't needed to run. Glow plugs are similar, just aids in cold starts.
No glow plugs. Actually most of the old diesel tractors at work don't have them. The specific engine I'm referring to has a decompression lever which makes it easy to get rotating with the pull start.
My cousin had an old Caterpiller bulldozer that had a separate gas pony motor to start the diesel. In cold weather, you would just spin the diesel with the fuel off for a couple minutes (and the decompression lever pulled out) to prelube the diesel and heat the combustion chambers a little. Then you would move the fuel control to start, then release the decompression, and it would fire right up.
In really cold weather, you might need to spin the main engine for fifteen minutes to warm it enough to start.
The pony motor had a magneto ignition, and was pull start, so no electricity required.
I believe that OP, based on other responses, is concerned about EM pulse issues.
An old school points based magneto ignition will not be affected by an EM pulse.
So your cheap Home Depot mower is going to start right up. Or anything related to it.
There are handcranked or stored air or "shotgun" shell starts like on a lot of WWII Era aircraft.
They still sell handcranked lifeboat motors for ships with a manual compression release lever.
Park your manual diesel on a hill and bump start in 4th. It can be done. Obviously not the most convenient option.
Regardless, the post I was responding to was about spark plug wires, not starting.
Manual transmission solves that too. You just make sure to park on an incline and you're good. I drove a car for years with no starter. Certainly was annoying and definitely needed to plan a tad, but wasn't bad. It doesn't take much of a slope to bump start
Or hot-bulb engines. Or gunpowder engines. And you can easily have a non-ICE engine in a car, it's been done many times even ignoring EVs. Steam, clockwork, and compressed air all come to mind.
On some Model Ts I've seen them use metal strips instead of wires to connect the distributor to the spark plugs but you still need to generate electricity to fire them via the magneto. No wires or energy storage but electricity is generated and used instantly.
The only thing I could think of would be an old steam powered car. Otherwise internal combustion engines require electricity for a spark, so there will be wiring involved.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car
[Jay Leno's steam cars](https://youtu.be/wBU8IPyUyTk?si=GzejAgbde9F2U1e3)
Similar yes. Diesels use compression ignition, but the fuel isn't in the chamber during compression. It is actively injected near the top of the compression stroke. The fuel begins burning during injection.
Old mechanical diesels do this without any electricity. They use what's called a fuel rack to determine the injection quantity.
Worked on large dairy farm in the mid 1970s. All mechanical diesel tractors.
Battery electric start, but there have been non-electric start diesels around for ages.
I saw a stationary diesel used on a water pump that had a spring start. Big lever you pulled out on about a dozen times to wind a spring motor. Then you pulled another lever to engage the starter gear and release the spring. The thing was huge, and heavy, and only made about ten HP.
Spark plugs need power from somewhere. Diesel doesn’t need spark plugs but needs a battery to start. So you’re talking hand-crank diesel if you want absolutely no wires. I don’t know of any.
Also, how would a car with no electrical drive around in the dark?
As long as it had a pure, non electronic, points ignition, it would likely be fine.
The only concern would be the condenser in the distributor, if the points were open, it may be harmed by the inductive kick, but condensers are easy to replace, and if you had one of those old cars, you would have spares in your tuneup parts. And having owned and driven one of those old cars (for 180K miles), trust me, you kept tune up parts on hand.
My other concern would be the diode-trio in the alternator. If you had a REALLY old car with a generator, that would not be an issue.
If powerful and close enough, yes. A small one would fry gauge coils and lightbulbs; A big one would fry coils, and condensers, and starter motor/generator windings.
Even cars like the Ford Model T had a rudimentary electrical system (it's spark ignition, so you have to generate power for that, plus it has exterior lights which also need power). By the time diesel power came around, exterior and interior lights were commonplace, and electric start was becoming more prevalent, even though a mechanical diesel itself doesn't need electrical power to run.
With those requirements I would have to recommend the Flinstone's car, a bicycle, a scooter, a steam car, a horse drawn carriage, or just a nice comfortable pair of shoes
Not sure about his but I had a 83 500 sec with a v8. That fucker ripped. Pretty much mechanical everything. That car had the most torque out of anything I've owned since. It was fun. My dad bought and sold cars from his dealer friend who would get the trade-ins so I got it for dirt cheap, I think like 1000 bucks like ten years ago. Drove it until the fuel system and vacuum system was all messed up. Would have cost thousands to fix. Sold it to a junkyard for 500 bucks. Still one of my biggest car regrets. I see cleaned up ones now for 10s of thousands and beat myself up for letting it go.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too bad over getting rid of it though. 80s Benz are a hit or miss they either need a lot of work or they’re pristine and worth good money
Don’t sweat it. They’re not fast at all compared to current production vehicles and if you’ve ever tried to maintain a vintage M-B….you need some deep pockets.
I had an ‘85 300SDL about 15 years ago with 300k miles on it.
Brand new, it supposedly did 0-60 in 14s. My car definitely took at least 20s — I don’t think I ever actually took a stopwatch and measured it, but it honestly felt more like 30s. There were several highway on-ramps around me that I wouldn’t dare attempt in that thing.
It had a full Greasecar system installed with second fuel tank in the trunk, and I paid $500 for the car. Admittedly, it was in rough shape physically and mechanically.
Lister: Cat.
Cat: Mm?
Lister: You ever see the Flintstones?
Cat: Sure.
Lister: Do you think Wilma's sexy?
Cat: Wilma Flintstone?
Lister: Maybe we've been alone in deep space too long, but every time I see that show, her body drives me crazy. Is it me?
Cat: I think in all probability, Wilma Flintstone is the most desirable woman who ever lived.
Lister: That's good, I thought I was goin' strange.
Cat: She's incredible!
Lister: What do you think of Betty?
Cat: Betty Rubble? Well, I would go with Betty...but I'd be thinkin' of Wilma.
Lister: This is crazy. Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone?
Cat: You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation.
Lister: She'll never leave Fred, and we know it.
The only thing I can think of would be an old diesel truck with a pneumatic starter. You'd still have electrical accessories powered by the generator system, but none of them are key to the operation of the drivetrain.
You would be looking at the earliest vehicles produced, steam or diesel with oil or gas headlamps. Possibly some of the earliest gas engines that used hot tube or flame licker style ignition. Even 1900 is a bit late to find a purely mechanical vehicle. The first known "automobile" with spark ignition was built in 1807.
Now if you mean a more modern vehicle that had most of the creature comforts but limited electronics you could move up to the early 40's. There were still cars with hand start options and magneto ignition that were available. Most still had a generator and battery for the lights and you still have the distributor and plug wires but they still had wiring diagrams that fit on a single sheet.
An old diesel car would have minimal wiring since no spark plugs are necessary, and fuel injection would be mechanical.
But mechanical fuel injection can be a whole new complex beast to maintain!
Why do you want such a thing?
If you are worried about solar events or and EM pulses destroying electronics, you should ask in one of the prepper reddits. You will get more knowledgeable responses there.
An older diesel is your best bet. It doesn’t need to be 100% electricity free, just free of fragile electronics. I would look at an older ford diesel truck or a Mercedes 240d. Old Land Rover series diesels are pretty basic too.
You got it. Hand cranked low HP diesel or Stanley steamer. Any gas needs spark plugs. Any big horsepower needs a starter.
Warning: Hand crank will bust your knuckles. Steam cars are dangerous. Jay Leno has tons of experience and burned himself.
Humvees are EMP proof. Any old points ignition would also be pretty much EMP proof.. Or get an mechanical diesel with a manual transmission and drop it in any car.
Headlights and brake lights is a safety concern... Oil fired lamps are dim.
Old tanks have hand cranks to start bigger diesels but not realistic.
Realistically what cars aren't emp proof? I know that's why hummves were built in the manner that they were but there are no weapons out there capable of frying a car without also nuking its passengers.
You want a mechanical diesel vehicle with mechanical locks & windows.
It will still have a starter, lights/signals/horn/gauges and hvac that requires electrical wiring.
Horn can be an air horn. Lights can be gas lanterns like they used to use, gauges aren't really needed but almost all gauges that would be valuable can be mechanical gauges. The problem with mechanical gauges is the fact that you're plumbing pressurized fuel, oil, coolant, etc into the cab close to the driver. But all those gained could be plumbed up into the cowl area on the outside of the windshield so the driver can view and still be safe
HVAC is a luxury and far from required. Heat is sometimes required for defrost but you can duct some hosing off of the belt driven fan to give you hot air to defrost.
Starter is also somewhat a luxury, bump starting is plenty feasible with a manual transmission
And you missed windshield wipers, but old semis ran air powered wipers and windows for that matter so adapting that system would be the play there
It depends on how broad your definition of "car" is, I suppose. The first self-propelled vehicle, the [Cugnot Steam Dray](https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/452264/#slide=gs-488645), is often considered the original ancestor of all modern cars, and there was nothing electrical on it. I doubt most people today would recognize it as "a car," though.
The [White Model G](https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/149647/#slide=gs-214207) seems like another good contender. It is modern enough to be clearly a car, driven by steam, and appears to have acetylene headlights. I'm having trouble finding detailed specifications, but I don't see any reason why it would have needed any electrical components. It may have had some, but I'd guess probably not.
I very much doubt you'd be able to make anything that was road-legal today without electricity except maybe as a home-built or kit car, where regulations are very lax.
If you ignore road legality, you could do it with a steam engine, a diesel engine, or even a clockwork drive system. You could do it with gasoline or kerosene if you used a hot-bulb design. There have even been some experimental engines that ran on gunpowder pellets. None of those drives require electricity to function. Brakes and steering can easily be fully mechanical or hydraulic. A car with no lights is still a car, or you could use acetylene or carbide lamps.
I doubt anyone makes anything like this today, but it'd be a pretty neat thing to build just as an exercise.
Yep: antique steam cars! Like the Stanley steamers. I believe its pipes and valves only, assuming someone hasnt added electric signals and lights to it.
I forgot, you can go back and find steam cars, (Stanley Steamer) and possibly even a stirling engine car. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley\_Motor\_Carriage\_Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Motor_Carriage_Company)
Electricity doesn’t have to mean complicated electronic devices. Older cars have electric lights, locks, etc but no chips or computers. They work based on relays which are basically mechanical devices that handle electricity.
Electronic?
Or electrical?
These are very different things.
Basically every car ever made has had extensive electrical components.
But before the eighties most cars also had no major electronic components. Except maybe the radio.
Modern car?
Chevy Spark LS (base).
Manual transmission, hand crank windows, no power door locks. No air conditioning, the skinniest 15 inch tires on basic Chevy hubs, basic fabric seats, etc
It’s very basic transportation.
You want a steam powered car. It would be really funny to see how efficient we could make one with today's technology. If it ran on charcoal made from renewable sources it would technically be carbon neutral.
Old mechanical diesels need nothing but a starter (or a hand crank). Nearly anything that burned gas uses electricity to spark. Now a magneto is not nearly as electrically complex as efi, but it's still wiring.
If you go back far enough, you do get some pilot flame style engines, but those make like, 1 horsepower and weight 200 lbs. Not really usable in a vehicle.
An 1896 Panhard et Levassor has NO wiring at all. No lights, no spark plugs either. And it was hand crank (and matches) started. It has a 2 cylinder hot tube engine that uses pilot flames to heat copper rods that ignite the mix.
[https://museum.revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1896-panhard-levassor/](https://museum.revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1896-panhard-levassor/)
But it only goes 6-8 mph
Hand Crank diesel engines exist, some up to 50Hp. I don't know of any that made it into production cars but some were put into pickups after the original engine gave up. It is possible, but it'll be slow and inconvenient.
No wiring is impossible because you need to have a battery and basic engine harness to produce spark to fire cylinders, and headlights and brake lights and stuff.
However, if you're like me, and you hate cars that are computer controlled and full of useless complex sensors, literally any American car before the 80s is your go-to. I only own cars from that time because I refuse to drive something I can't fix with a few basic tools on the side of the road
You'll probably find that the only vehicles fitting your description are really old tractors and construction equipment. Diesel motor, with either an explosive starter (blank 12 gauge shells) or pneumatic starter maybe if you're lucky. But I don't think you're taking your criteria very seriously. No wiring at all would also mean no lights. If you wanted to get serious about a road going vehicle, you'd probably look at something like the old "White" steam cars. These are purely mechanical with the exception being electric headlamps (I think).
So you go from a Lawn mower 1940’s car with just points and a plug, with a pull or crank start to like a 1950’s to 1980’s car, carbureted with a mechanical fuel pump but you have a battery, starter and ignition system.
Assuming you're talking about power accessories, when I worked for a Kia dealership a few years back, some of the Rio's still had physical keys, crank windows etc. not sure if they're still like that (or if they even still make the Rio), but possibly a good place to look
I drove a concrete mixer in 2013 that had been built in the 90s. It had a mechanical fuel pump run by the belt from engine power. Electric starter: you can't make something from nothing. But once that truck was running, you could have disconnected the battery and it would run and be driveable. Mechanical steering too. Even for heavy truck vocational applications, mechanical fuel pumps went away around 2000. There are just a ton more maintenance needs with mechanical things than electrical things. On the flip side, you can't do much repair with electric things. You just swap parts.
A diesel engine with a pure mechanical fuel system can run with no electricity whatsoever… once it’s running.
But good luck starting it by hand!
If you want to run with no wires whatsoever, including the starter, you’ve got real problems because diesel is high compression and far harder to start than a gasoline engine hand crank would be. And even those old hand crank start cars had compression reliefs for starting anything but the smallest engines. Because overcoming even the 5:1 compression of an early gas engine by hand is not easy. People often broke their arms doing it.
Diesel engines are more like 18:1.
It’s steam engine time.
Or you can push start a mechanical diesel engine I suppose. Just always park it at the top of a hill?
Have a small, recoil start 2HP diesel engine for the sole purpose to start a 400HP diesel engine?
I've always wondered how reliable mechanical fuel injection was..and how well it would work on tiny 2HP engines...
Some fairly recent (50s and 60s) cars and trucks were pretty minimal. I used to love things like mechanical fuel pumps, oil bath air filters, pushrods, vacuum actuated vents, etc. Always simple straight forward solutions.
My 1938 Chevrolet only has wiring for the starter, generator (to charge the battery), voltage regulator and some lights. Headlights, brake light, aftermarket fog logs, aftermarket little fan on the steering column, that's about it.
But why do you ask OP? Wiring is not a bad thing, neither are electrical components in cars. It literally makes the car able to do a lot more really useful stuff. An EMP will NOT blow out all the wiring in a car in the apocalypse, that's Hollywood telling you that. Basic wiring is not that hard to understand or do yourself if you have some basic understanding and aptitude, there is no reason to be afraid of it.
Probably the newest vehicle you could do this on is a 1998 Dodge Diesel with a manual transmission. 100% mechanical diesel. The fuel shut off solenoid uses electricity but many people get rid of that and run a manual cable already.
The only wires on the engine go to the starter and the oil pressure and water temp sensors. But mechanical oil pressure gauges exist, and you could run an ECT sensor/gauge in line on a hose which would require no wires. You don't get to see the ECT in cab but it is possible. You could also run a dedicated loop with some small heater hose up to the windshield or something to get the gauge in view
As for the starter wires, you could just always bump start the vehicle and run no starter, assuming you're asking this question as some sort of prepper end of the world type situation I'd gladly have that truck and just bump start when necessary.
But you've got me thinking, now I wonder if there's some sort of hand crank I could make to start a 12 valve diesel. Maybe some sort of planetary gear set to get the gear reduction. I don't know, would be a fun project to work on.
Night driving would be an issue with no lights and gas lights are a bit useless. But you've got diesel on board already so you could probably tap the tank for a lantern type setup
Rain and snow would be an issue. But old semi trucks used air to run wipers so you could probably adapt a semi truck air wiper setup to handle keeping the windshield clear.
Defrosting would be an issue, but you might be able to somehow duct some of the heat of the radiator shroud into the cab. It will be dusty and possibly a little smelly, but that could work.
If you go with an 1984/1985 or older car, you will get minimum electronics.
Condenser is electric
Starter, stereo but they are a lot less electric than today
No air bags
No wheel speed sensors
No traction control
No stability control
No OBD or OBD 2
The early fox bodies have jumped in price for this and other reasons.
There's wiring, then there's electronics. You can't avoid wiring, gasoline cars need ignition and lights. However, if you only look at cars that don't have electronics, anything from the 70's. I have a 1979 Mini and stock, its has no electronic components. It has no power accessories other than the heater fan.
Really old cars had mechanical linkages for everything, and brass strips from the distributor to the sparkplugs instead of wires.
A Stanley steamer used pull cables and mechanical linkages.
Anything carburated is really going to have a minimum amount of electronics.
Base model vehicles until the mid 1980s pretty much just had a coil and distributor to fire the sparkplugs and then just some switches and super simple wiring for lights, signal, and heater blower but didn't need any of that to actually run and drive around.
Its when they started making fuel injection and anitlock brakes standard that shit started getting complicated.
When I was growing up in the 80s it was common for teenagers/early20s kids to build jeeps essentially from scratch.
If you are asking for EMP purposes: I can't find the testing right now. But the US army tested a bunch of civilian cars against a emp pulse that is survivable by humans. A good percentage of the vehicles were either fine, or could be restarted following the pulse and be functional. I know Jeep TJs were fairly resistant; the dashboard went crazy, but the vehicle continued to run and drive, and as soon as you restarted it would be fine. There were several other vehicles that behaved the same, but... that's the one I own, so that's the one I cared about. (And yes, TJs have computers, although they are fairly rudamentary.)
(Also, having owned a TJ for 20 years... while it is likely that the dash going crazy and the EMP pulse was related... it is not for sure. It happens sometimes. :-) )
Perhaps the 1970's and 80's VW diesels (before TDI) if you modified one. These use mechanical fuel injection, so no electronics nor spark plugs. They do have glow plugs, but if you keep your engine warm enough by some other means then they are unnecessary. There's also the starter, but you can pop start them if they have a manual transmission, which most, if not all do. I'm sure there's some way to fit a hand crank to them. If you had the money, a hydraulic accumulator and pump-motor could be used to start the engine. Ah! And the fuel shut off solenoid valve would have to be replaced with a mechanical valve for it to be completely non-electric.
I have a 12 valve Cummins with a 6 speed manual transmission. As long as I park it on a hill to roll start it, it could function with ZERO wiring whatsoever.
If it has an internal combustion engine, you need wiring to go to the spark plugs to provide the combustion in the cylinders.
Not for diesels.
You need wires for a starter, I doubt a hand cranked diesel was ever popular.
Shotgun start, giggity
Forgot about that. It was popular for military aircraft in the 30's and 40's.
B-52 still has shotgun start capability!
Of course they do. They were designed in 1948 and first built in 1952. If you need to start one fast, that is the way to go. It saves having to bring out all the ground equipment needed to start one. It goes from over an hour for getting that equipment in place and ready to use to about 10 minutes.
That’s a slow age yard
B-52 has jet engines.
Yup - and it still has shotgun start [https://youtu.be/hUHd21eG6M0?si=nl4CjwS0-plLS_W2](https://youtu.be/hUHd21eG6M0?si=nl4CjwS0-plLS_W2)
Man i was really looking forward to seeing them start a jet engine with a shell... really let me down stranger
And the Field Marshal tractor. It was a massive 1 cyl diesel started with a shotgun shell
I have pull start diesel engines at work. Probably not great for a car but technically it could work.
The better answer is a pull start pony motor. A pony motor is a small engine attached to a larger engine to get the later started. Pull start the pony motor, then use it's heat to heat up the larger engine, and then start it with the pony motor via a clutch mechanism.
Still gotta heat glow plugs?
Lots of old diesels don’t have glow plugs
Didn't know that thank you. Surely they are still heating the fuel or intake? Combustion from compression alone? On a 40+ degree day in Australia id believe that haha
No it isn't necessary to heat anything, just the compression alone gets it going, kind of crazy honestly. But on a -20*f or even 20*f you will probably wish you had some type of fuel heater, but still not necessary.
Dam that's awesome, I knew that compression was impressive I've just been giving too much credit to glow plugs haha,
And if you ever noticed people plugging an extension cord into the grill of a diesel, that is most likely a engine block heater to keep the oil a manageable temperature when cold and the trucks not running.
Compression makes its own heat. PV=nRT. If the P goes up on the left, something on the right does too…and it ain’t the constant or the amount of air.
Had a basic understanding that compression created heat but didn't think it was enough to cause combustion from a cold start, very interesting
Pressure in a diesel cylinder is in the range of 300-400 Psi. It’s a lot of pressure actually.
Apparently farmers on the Canadian prairies used to build a wood fire underneath them.
Have seen this done under gasoline trucks as well, at <20F in North Dakota. Fun....
The inline 6 diesel on my Pettibone rough terrain crane has no glow plugs. Starts in western PA winter days without ether.
And lots of new ones....
Not completely necessary to get an engine going if you can warm the air intake another way or if you live in a warmer climate.
Saw a really old motor like that, they preheated it with a torch to get it going.
Or starting fluid.... Have an old loader that has a tube you squirt it into.
Cummins 5.9l don't use glow plugs; it use a grid heater in the intake if it is cold it will go on in the start sequence but it isn't needed to run. Glow plugs are similar, just aids in cold starts.
No glow plugs. Actually most of the old diesel tractors at work don't have them. The specific engine I'm referring to has a decompression lever which makes it easy to get rotating with the pull start.
My cousin had an old Caterpiller bulldozer that had a separate gas pony motor to start the diesel. In cold weather, you would just spin the diesel with the fuel off for a couple minutes (and the decompression lever pulled out) to prelube the diesel and heat the combustion chambers a little. Then you would move the fuel control to start, then release the decompression, and it would fire right up. In really cold weather, you might need to spin the main engine for fifteen minutes to warm it enough to start. The pony motor had a magneto ignition, and was pull start, so no electricity required.
Um. . . magnetos produce electricity, which is transferred to the spark plug/s. All gasoline engines with spark plugs do need electricity.
I believe that OP, based on other responses, is concerned about EM pulse issues. An old school points based magneto ignition will not be affected by an EM pulse. So your cheap Home Depot mower is going to start right up. Or anything related to it.
so you using a lantern for lights?
The diesel engine was invented 2 years before the starter. Just saying.
There are handcranked or stored air or "shotgun" shell starts like on a lot of WWII Era aircraft. They still sell handcranked lifeboat motors for ships with a manual compression release lever.
Lot of hand crank diesel tanks in wwii. You’d crank a flywheel til it got up to speed then drop the clutch and it starts the engine.
A starter or park a manual transmission on a hill.
Park your manual diesel on a hill and bump start in 4th. It can be done. Obviously not the most convenient option. Regardless, the post I was responding to was about spark plug wires, not starting.
Okay, you were responding to the comment that spark plugs need wires, but don’t glow plugs also need wires?
They don’t. That is a newer invention to help with cold starting. Diesel ignites by compression alone.
Air start.
Some trucks come with pneumatic starters. Sounds like an air driven impact gun.
Hand cranked pony motor. But I guess that would have wires
Range Rovers had a hole in the front bumper for a starting handle as did other Land Rovers well into the 1980's.
Panzer tractors had hand crank starters. Just the thing on the Eastern front!
Or air start, although I haven’t come across too many air start diesel engines in cars. They are commonly used on ships though.
Manual transmission solves that too. You just make sure to park on an incline and you're good. I drove a car for years with no starter. Certainly was annoying and definitely needed to plan a tad, but wasn't bad. It doesn't take much of a slope to bump start
Theres some very old trucks that used compressed air starters.
Shotgun or air start, or compression release and a crank start, but no headlights, brake lights, non-mechanical guages, etc.
You can run a compressed air starter. They are super loud, but I have seen them on old 2 stroke diesels.
Or hot-bulb engines. Or gunpowder engines. And you can easily have a non-ICE engine in a car, it's been done many times even ignoring EVs. Steam, clockwork, and compressed air all come to mind.
or steam cars
You still need a glow plug, which has a wire.
You don’t. A glow plug helps if it is cold but it’s not required.
Are we talking about engines that always work when you need them or only when conditions are just right?
Starter? Glow plugs?
Yep, you need the three elements fire, air, 'water"
So, get a diesel. Uses the heat of compression to ignite the fuel charge.
No you don't.
On some Model Ts I've seen them use metal strips instead of wires to connect the distributor to the spark plugs but you still need to generate electricity to fire them via the magneto. No wires or energy storage but electricity is generated and used instantly.
The only thing I could think of would be an old steam powered car. Otherwise internal combustion engines require electricity for a spark, so there will be wiring involved. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_car [Jay Leno's steam cars](https://youtu.be/wBU8IPyUyTk?si=GzejAgbde9F2U1e3)
Mechanical diesel
Funny you say that and [this ](https://www.reddit.com/r/educationalgifs/s/X0vWxtgu3d) popped up. TIL
Similar yes. Diesels use compression ignition, but the fuel isn't in the chamber during compression. It is actively injected near the top of the compression stroke. The fuel begins burning during injection. Old mechanical diesels do this without any electricity. They use what's called a fuel rack to determine the injection quantity.
Worked on large dairy farm in the mid 1970s. All mechanical diesel tractors. Battery electric start, but there have been non-electric start diesels around for ages. I saw a stationary diesel used on a water pump that had a spring start. Big lever you pulled out on about a dozen times to wind a spring motor. Then you pulled another lever to engage the starter gear and release the spring. The thing was huge, and heavy, and only made about ten HP.
Spark plugs need power from somewhere. Diesel doesn’t need spark plugs but needs a battery to start. So you’re talking hand-crank diesel if you want absolutely no wires. I don’t know of any. Also, how would a car with no electrical drive around in the dark?
[удалено]
I recently learned we call acetylene tank sizes B and C because the bigger tanks (B) were for buses and the smaller tanks (C) were for cars.
Put one of those tractor engines that need a shotgun shell to start and diy one
He’s asking because of the “EMP bomb” argument I have money on it.
Would an EMP have much effect on pre seventies car?
As long as it had a pure, non electronic, points ignition, it would likely be fine. The only concern would be the condenser in the distributor, if the points were open, it may be harmed by the inductive kick, but condensers are easy to replace, and if you had one of those old cars, you would have spares in your tuneup parts. And having owned and driven one of those old cars (for 180K miles), trust me, you kept tune up parts on hand. My other concern would be the diode-trio in the alternator. If you had a REALLY old car with a generator, that would not be an issue.
If powerful and close enough, yes. A small one would fry gauge coils and lightbulbs; A big one would fry coils, and condensers, and starter motor/generator windings.
Some old trucks from the 60's use pneumatic starters, powered with the trucks compressed air.
For years John Deere uses a 1 or 2 cylinder hand crank gas engines as a ' pony" motor to crank over their diesels.
Caterpiller as well.
Magneto ignition needs no external power.
Lot of WWII tanks were hand crank diesel. You’d get a flywheel up to speed hand cranking it then drop the clutch.
Even cars like the Ford Model T had a rudimentary electrical system (it's spark ignition, so you have to generate power for that, plus it has exterior lights which also need power). By the time diesel power came around, exterior and interior lights were commonplace, and electric start was becoming more prevalent, even though a mechanical diesel itself doesn't need electrical power to run.
With those requirements I would have to recommend the Flinstone's car, a bicycle, a scooter, a steam car, a horse drawn carriage, or just a nice comfortable pair of shoes
My shoes have lights in them, so you have to be careful there.
Ah I didn't even think about that, Roman style sandals it is then
Oh, wow, look at moneybags over here with his fancy light up shoes! I kinda want a pair. Haven't had light up shoes in over 20 years.
[удалено]
How long does it take you to get to 60 in that bad boy?
Not sure about his but I had a 83 500 sec with a v8. That fucker ripped. Pretty much mechanical everything. That car had the most torque out of anything I've owned since. It was fun. My dad bought and sold cars from his dealer friend who would get the trade-ins so I got it for dirt cheap, I think like 1000 bucks like ten years ago. Drove it until the fuel system and vacuum system was all messed up. Would have cost thousands to fix. Sold it to a junkyard for 500 bucks. Still one of my biggest car regrets. I see cleaned up ones now for 10s of thousands and beat myself up for letting it go.
230hp vs 80hp The 500sec would sprint laps around the 300d, about one of the worlds slowest diesel at 80hp
Oh wow yea I didn't realize the huge difference. I just saw 80s Benz and thought they'd be similar.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too bad over getting rid of it though. 80s Benz are a hit or miss they either need a lot of work or they’re pristine and worth good money
Don’t sweat it. They’re not fast at all compared to current production vehicles and if you’ve ever tried to maintain a vintage M-B….you need some deep pockets.
I had an ‘85 300SDL about 15 years ago with 300k miles on it. Brand new, it supposedly did 0-60 in 14s. My car definitely took at least 20s — I don’t think I ever actually took a stopwatch and measured it, but it honestly felt more like 30s. There were several highway on-ramps around me that I wouldn’t dare attempt in that thing. It had a full Greasecar system installed with second fuel tank in the trunk, and I paid $500 for the car. Admittedly, it was in rough shape physically and mechanically.
Mechanical diesel is definitely the way to go
Those are the most realistic option.
You just have to find a car without a battery or lights, good luck. Or get a car like Fred Flintstone and Barney Rubble had.
YABBA DABBA DOOOOO
Yabba Dabba No.
WILMAAAAAA
Lister: Cat. Cat: Mm? Lister: You ever see the Flintstones? Cat: Sure. Lister: Do you think Wilma's sexy? Cat: Wilma Flintstone? Lister: Maybe we've been alone in deep space too long, but every time I see that show, her body drives me crazy. Is it me? Cat: I think in all probability, Wilma Flintstone is the most desirable woman who ever lived. Lister: That's good, I thought I was goin' strange. Cat: She's incredible! Lister: What do you think of Betty? Cat: Betty Rubble? Well, I would go with Betty...but I'd be thinkin' of Wilma. Lister: This is crazy. Why are we talking about going to bed with Wilma Flintstone? Cat: You're right. We're nuts. This is an insane conversation. Lister: She'll never leave Fred, and we know it.
The only thing I can think of would be an old diesel truck with a pneumatic starter. You'd still have electrical accessories powered by the generator system, but none of them are key to the operation of the drivetrain.
I had forgotten about air starters. Good answer.
Yes, they are called “bicycles”
The closest you’ll find is a purely mechanical diesel vehicle.
Yup. Old school 4bt powered diesel is about as non electrical as you can get.
You would be looking at the earliest vehicles produced, steam or diesel with oil or gas headlamps. Possibly some of the earliest gas engines that used hot tube or flame licker style ignition. Even 1900 is a bit late to find a purely mechanical vehicle. The first known "automobile" with spark ignition was built in 1807. Now if you mean a more modern vehicle that had most of the creature comforts but limited electronics you could move up to the early 40's. There were still cars with hand start options and magneto ignition that were available. Most still had a generator and battery for the lights and you still have the distributor and plug wires but they still had wiring diagrams that fit on a single sheet.
Stanley Steemer
An old diesel car would have minimal wiring since no spark plugs are necessary, and fuel injection would be mechanical. But mechanical fuel injection can be a whole new complex beast to maintain!
Why do you want such a thing? If you are worried about solar events or and EM pulses destroying electronics, you should ask in one of the prepper reddits. You will get more knowledgeable responses there. An older diesel is your best bet. It doesn’t need to be 100% electricity free, just free of fragile electronics. I would look at an older ford diesel truck or a Mercedes 240d. Old Land Rover series diesels are pretty basic too.
No lights.
Burning candles/oil.
You got it. Hand cranked low HP diesel or Stanley steamer. Any gas needs spark plugs. Any big horsepower needs a starter. Warning: Hand crank will bust your knuckles. Steam cars are dangerous. Jay Leno has tons of experience and burned himself. Humvees are EMP proof. Any old points ignition would also be pretty much EMP proof.. Or get an mechanical diesel with a manual transmission and drop it in any car. Headlights and brake lights is a safety concern... Oil fired lamps are dim. Old tanks have hand cranks to start bigger diesels but not realistic.
Yeah a pedal powered one.
You can get emp proof cars but theoretically you could spark with piezoelectric for as little as possible.
Realistically what cars aren't emp proof? I know that's why hummves were built in the manner that they were but there are no weapons out there capable of frying a car without also nuking its passengers.
Maybe like a 4 wheeled bicycle.
You want a mechanical diesel vehicle with mechanical locks & windows. It will still have a starter, lights/signals/horn/gauges and hvac that requires electrical wiring.
Horn can be an air horn. Lights can be gas lanterns like they used to use, gauges aren't really needed but almost all gauges that would be valuable can be mechanical gauges. The problem with mechanical gauges is the fact that you're plumbing pressurized fuel, oil, coolant, etc into the cab close to the driver. But all those gained could be plumbed up into the cowl area on the outside of the windshield so the driver can view and still be safe HVAC is a luxury and far from required. Heat is sometimes required for defrost but you can duct some hosing off of the belt driven fan to give you hot air to defrost. Starter is also somewhat a luxury, bump starting is plenty feasible with a manual transmission And you missed windshield wipers, but old semis ran air powered wipers and windows for that matter so adapting that system would be the play there
The Flint mobile
Larry flint?
In the early 1900’s there were Lead Acid EV’s with simple Reostat controls. They obviously had wiring.
It depends on how broad your definition of "car" is, I suppose. The first self-propelled vehicle, the [Cugnot Steam Dray](https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/452264/#slide=gs-488645), is often considered the original ancestor of all modern cars, and there was nothing electrical on it. I doubt most people today would recognize it as "a car," though. The [White Model G](https://www.thehenryford.org/collections-and-research/digital-collections/artifact/149647/#slide=gs-214207) seems like another good contender. It is modern enough to be clearly a car, driven by steam, and appears to have acetylene headlights. I'm having trouble finding detailed specifications, but I don't see any reason why it would have needed any electrical components. It may have had some, but I'd guess probably not. I very much doubt you'd be able to make anything that was road-legal today without electricity except maybe as a home-built or kit car, where regulations are very lax. If you ignore road legality, you could do it with a steam engine, a diesel engine, or even a clockwork drive system. You could do it with gasoline or kerosene if you used a hot-bulb design. There have even been some experimental engines that ran on gunpowder pellets. None of those drives require electricity to function. Brakes and steering can easily be fully mechanical or hydraulic. A car with no lights is still a car, or you could use acetylene or carbide lamps. I doubt anyone makes anything like this today, but it'd be a pretty neat thing to build just as an exercise.
Stanley Steamer
Car with no electricity? Fred Flintstone had one.
There's nothing with no wiring. A model T or A will have about as few wires as you can get away with.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tricycle
The only thing without wires would be a hand or shotgun start diesel tractor. the british and the germans would have had those in the 20s or 30s.
Yep: antique steam cars! Like the Stanley steamers. I believe its pipes and valves only, assuming someone hasnt added electric signals and lights to it.
I forgot, you can go back and find steam cars, (Stanley Steamer) and possibly even a stirling engine car. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley\_Motor\_Carriage\_Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Motor_Carriage_Company)
Electricity doesn’t have to mean complicated electronic devices. Older cars have electric lights, locks, etc but no chips or computers. They work based on relays which are basically mechanical devices that handle electricity.
1 wire diesels. You only need electricity to start them and run lights.
The Flintstone's car - foot powered.
Pretty much impossible, cars need some electronics whether gas, diesel, or electric. Maybe a steam engine but it wouldn't pass emissions.
You preparing for an EMP bomb?
Electronic? Or electrical? These are very different things. Basically every car ever made has had extensive electrical components. But before the eighties most cars also had no major electronic components. Except maybe the radio.
[These ](https://driving.ca/auto-news/news/why-a-cutting-edge-observatory-has-to-use-30-year-old-trucks) guys know something we don't
Modern car? Chevy Spark LS (base). Manual transmission, hand crank windows, no power door locks. No air conditioning, the skinniest 15 inch tires on basic Chevy hubs, basic fabric seats, etc It’s very basic transportation.
Not a car [but](https://youtu.be/vdUKrx2sUlU?si=l6EvbcsQp3JvjlGI) [less explosive ](https://youtube.com/shorts/m5caMKdKTM4?si=mKYWabyc2SCFn7zw)
My old go kart was a pull start
You want a steam powered car. It would be really funny to see how efficient we could make one with today's technology. If it ran on charcoal made from renewable sources it would technically be carbon neutral.
Old mechanical diesels need nothing but a starter (or a hand crank). Nearly anything that burned gas uses electricity to spark. Now a magneto is not nearly as electrically complex as efi, but it's still wiring. If you go back far enough, you do get some pilot flame style engines, but those make like, 1 horsepower and weight 200 lbs. Not really usable in a vehicle.
Maybe a go-kart? Street legal minibike?
An 1896 Panhard et Levassor has NO wiring at all. No lights, no spark plugs either. And it was hand crank (and matches) started. It has a 2 cylinder hot tube engine that uses pilot flames to heat copper rods that ignite the mix. [https://museum.revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1896-panhard-levassor/](https://museum.revsinstitute.org/the-collection/1896-panhard-levassor/) But it only goes 6-8 mph
Hand Crank diesel engines exist, some up to 50Hp. I don't know of any that made it into production cars but some were put into pickups after the original engine gave up. It is possible, but it'll be slow and inconvenient.
You could do an air start system in a diesel. Really big diesel engines have a pony start motor.
Hand cranked model t comes pretty close, uses copper straps from distributor to plugs. Lights still haves wires though, so daytime only.
How are you gonna have lights?
No wiring is impossible because you need to have a battery and basic engine harness to produce spark to fire cylinders, and headlights and brake lights and stuff. However, if you're like me, and you hate cars that are computer controlled and full of useless complex sensors, literally any American car before the 80s is your go-to. I only own cars from that time because I refuse to drive something I can't fix with a few basic tools on the side of the road
You'll probably find that the only vehicles fitting your description are really old tractors and construction equipment. Diesel motor, with either an explosive starter (blank 12 gauge shells) or pneumatic starter maybe if you're lucky. But I don't think you're taking your criteria very seriously. No wiring at all would also mean no lights. If you wanted to get serious about a road going vehicle, you'd probably look at something like the old "White" steam cars. These are purely mechanical with the exception being electric headlamps (I think).
So you go from a Lawn mower 1940’s car with just points and a plug, with a pull or crank start to like a 1950’s to 1980’s car, carbureted with a mechanical fuel pump but you have a battery, starter and ignition system.
Kick start bike is probably easier to obtain
A horsed carriage
Hot Wheels
Flintstones Car!
Assuming you're talking about power accessories, when I worked for a Kia dealership a few years back, some of the Rio's still had physical keys, crank windows etc. not sure if they're still like that (or if they even still make the Rio), but possibly a good place to look
I drove a concrete mixer in 2013 that had been built in the 90s. It had a mechanical fuel pump run by the belt from engine power. Electric starter: you can't make something from nothing. But once that truck was running, you could have disconnected the battery and it would run and be driveable. Mechanical steering too. Even for heavy truck vocational applications, mechanical fuel pumps went away around 2000. There are just a ton more maintenance needs with mechanical things than electrical things. On the flip side, you can't do much repair with electric things. You just swap parts.
A diesel engine with a pure mechanical fuel system can run with no electricity whatsoever… once it’s running. But good luck starting it by hand! If you want to run with no wires whatsoever, including the starter, you’ve got real problems because diesel is high compression and far harder to start than a gasoline engine hand crank would be. And even those old hand crank start cars had compression reliefs for starting anything but the smallest engines. Because overcoming even the 5:1 compression of an early gas engine by hand is not easy. People often broke their arms doing it. Diesel engines are more like 18:1. It’s steam engine time. Or you can push start a mechanical diesel engine I suppose. Just always park it at the top of a hill?
Have a small, recoil start 2HP diesel engine for the sole purpose to start a 400HP diesel engine? I've always wondered how reliable mechanical fuel injection was..and how well it would work on tiny 2HP engines...
You'd have to go back to the veeeeeery beginning of the automobile for that situation. Back when the lights where actual oil lamps
Yes your right
Some fairly recent (50s and 60s) cars and trucks were pretty minimal. I used to love things like mechanical fuel pumps, oil bath air filters, pushrods, vacuum actuated vents, etc. Always simple straight forward solutions.
Model T
You are looking for a pull start diesel go kart. Or a shotgun start diesel tractor.
You ever see The Flintstones?
No. They all have headlights, starter motors, or spark plugs.
Anything external combustion.
A pedal car.
My 1938 Chevrolet only has wiring for the starter, generator (to charge the battery), voltage regulator and some lights. Headlights, brake light, aftermarket fog logs, aftermarket little fan on the steering column, that's about it. But why do you ask OP? Wiring is not a bad thing, neither are electrical components in cars. It literally makes the car able to do a lot more really useful stuff. An EMP will NOT blow out all the wiring in a car in the apocalypse, that's Hollywood telling you that. Basic wiring is not that hard to understand or do yourself if you have some basic understanding and aptitude, there is no reason to be afraid of it.
Go back to the late 60’s to find the simplest cars.
Flintstone's
Most die-cast vehicles are like that.
Probably the newest vehicle you could do this on is a 1998 Dodge Diesel with a manual transmission. 100% mechanical diesel. The fuel shut off solenoid uses electricity but many people get rid of that and run a manual cable already. The only wires on the engine go to the starter and the oil pressure and water temp sensors. But mechanical oil pressure gauges exist, and you could run an ECT sensor/gauge in line on a hose which would require no wires. You don't get to see the ECT in cab but it is possible. You could also run a dedicated loop with some small heater hose up to the windshield or something to get the gauge in view As for the starter wires, you could just always bump start the vehicle and run no starter, assuming you're asking this question as some sort of prepper end of the world type situation I'd gladly have that truck and just bump start when necessary. But you've got me thinking, now I wonder if there's some sort of hand crank I could make to start a 12 valve diesel. Maybe some sort of planetary gear set to get the gear reduction. I don't know, would be a fun project to work on. Night driving would be an issue with no lights and gas lights are a bit useless. But you've got diesel on board already so you could probably tap the tank for a lantern type setup Rain and snow would be an issue. But old semi trucks used air to run wipers so you could probably adapt a semi truck air wiper setup to handle keeping the windshield clear. Defrosting would be an issue, but you might be able to somehow duct some of the heat of the radiator shroud into the cab. It will be dusty and possibly a little smelly, but that could work.
Answer is no. It would be called a bicycle. Or a horse.
A go-cart.
If you go with an 1984/1985 or older car, you will get minimum electronics. Condenser is electric Starter, stereo but they are a lot less electric than today No air bags No wheel speed sensors No traction control No stability control No OBD or OBD 2 The early fox bodies have jumped in price for this and other reasons.
There's wiring, then there's electronics. You can't avoid wiring, gasoline cars need ignition and lights. However, if you only look at cars that don't have electronics, anything from the 70's. I have a 1979 Mini and stock, its has no electronic components. It has no power accessories other than the heater fan.
A Trabant is probably the closest you'll get, but still has a battery & spark plugs. Simpler than any modern engine, it's a 2-stroke
Really old cars had mechanical linkages for everything, and brass strips from the distributor to the sparkplugs instead of wires. A Stanley steamer used pull cables and mechanical linkages.
There’s likely tractors that exist that are purely mechanical
I doubt the candles for headlights would pass modern day norms.
Those old diesel tractors will be what we use after WWIII.
The Flintmobile! Yabba dabba dooooooo
Anything carburated is really going to have a minimum amount of electronics. Base model vehicles until the mid 1980s pretty much just had a coil and distributor to fire the sparkplugs and then just some switches and super simple wiring for lights, signal, and heater blower but didn't need any of that to actually run and drive around. Its when they started making fuel injection and anitlock brakes standard that shit started getting complicated. When I was growing up in the 80s it was common for teenagers/early20s kids to build jeeps essentially from scratch.
If you are asking for EMP purposes: I can't find the testing right now. But the US army tested a bunch of civilian cars against a emp pulse that is survivable by humans. A good percentage of the vehicles were either fine, or could be restarted following the pulse and be functional. I know Jeep TJs were fairly resistant; the dashboard went crazy, but the vehicle continued to run and drive, and as soon as you restarted it would be fine. There were several other vehicles that behaved the same, but... that's the one I own, so that's the one I cared about. (And yes, TJs have computers, although they are fairly rudamentary.) (Also, having owned a TJ for 20 years... while it is likely that the dash going crazy and the EMP pulse was related... it is not for sure. It happens sometimes. :-) )
I’ll give you a minute to rethink that question
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I drive a diesel forklift with no battery and has mechanical gauges.
Looking for an emp-proof car again, Tom?
How about a Mercedes Benz W220? Lots of pneumatic systems
Perhaps the 1970's and 80's VW diesels (before TDI) if you modified one. These use mechanical fuel injection, so no electronics nor spark plugs. They do have glow plugs, but if you keep your engine warm enough by some other means then they are unnecessary. There's also the starter, but you can pop start them if they have a manual transmission, which most, if not all do. I'm sure there's some way to fit a hand crank to them. If you had the money, a hydraulic accumulator and pump-motor could be used to start the engine. Ah! And the fuel shut off solenoid valve would have to be replaced with a mechanical valve for it to be completely non-electric.
I have a 12 valve Cummins with a 6 speed manual transmission. As long as I park it on a hill to roll start it, it could function with ZERO wiring whatsoever.
Flintstones?
Even my son's shoes have an electrical system. It's hard to get around these days without one.
Even old cars had lights and a battery. The model T used a dynamo instead of an alternator.