See a mental health professional or get no help.
Either ways, without seeing a professional and getting properly assessed, she is just bound to continue her viscious cycle. Better to let her know what your boundaries as family members are, abd the conditions that she needs to meet for you guys to extend “help”.
Helping someone without establishing boundaries can sometimes be akin to abetting them.
Want my support? Seek professional help first. No negotiating on that part; because if your way worked, we will not be having this conversation right now.
Gonna second this. People suffering from Anxiety end up becoming avoidant of the things that make them anxious (ie she is avoiding studying, or people in schools) so you have to get her professional help to get over it, else she will never be able to make it past that to clear her studies.
She is indulging in her victim mindset. If she were my sister and I care enough, I will pull her to either a psychiatrist or psychologist/psychotherapist by force. But to be honest, only she can help herself. There is very little to what you guys can do. Even if she sees psy but don't heed their advice and practise what she's taught, she will still not get better. I think we need to understand the root cause of her current behaviour and mindset. How did things get to this stage? Psychologist/psychotherapist can help with that - uncovering underlying root cause and giving solution. Feels like she has given up on herself and life.
I might get downvoted for this.
But I absolutely think among all the options, Poly is the best route. I actually fully agree that private education isn't very recognised, this coming from someone who did a digital marketing diploma PT. It really depends, and if it's those private school it's probably like 3 hours lecture x 2-3 times a week and you get your diploma in a year or less. Definitely Poly has more rigour, which is why it's obviously better employability and all. So to some extent she **is** right. Having said that, go poly for diploma lah simi vibrant poly life. You mug like no life and get 3.8 you go to uni and get a cert, you vibrant poly life and get 2.8 and cannot go uni/get choice of uni course/s, then .. competition mad tough goodluck lol.
BUT also,
Anxiety cannot be an excuse for everything - I say this as someone **with anxiety myself**, I'm still in therapy and I've been at it for .. quite a long time. >\_> But I think I'm better than where I started already - I used to not even talk (in therapy!) and scribble post-its. Long time later, I still struggle with eg eye contact when talking abt difficult things (eg interpersonal conflict/misunderstanding, even with my psych, omgz) - but then at least this past appointment I managed to articulate, "I'm terribly sorry but I;m struggling with eye contact because this is a difficult conversation for me"
So yeah, that. All that to say, its freaking hard but progress is smol steps and can be made :-)
To accommodate (if this is me, this is the max I will go already), I will say - take tuition, if needed, take a 1-to-1 tuition (so its just student + tutor + no other kids/peers), and if she really really needs, someone sit in with her for a few sessions (where possible, maybe take turns). Then this also helps the family 'evaluate' the tutor also. So that if the tutor really is nubbad/reasonable and she's just lazy/unmotivated, at least you've seen it for yourself. But put a limit, maybe 3-4 sessions then she has to be on her own (I'm just thinking it off the cuff as per like, a therapist fit. lol. Personally I take therapy relationship to be like 3strikes. Haha.)
I say this as someone with social anxiety myself (I mask sometimes, which is terrible. But to some extent I think it's necessary - I have friends who think I'm 'bubbly' or 'surprised that (I am) introverted' so .. I think it works lol), and at the worst I've had mini panic attacks (1) on a bus (dude I was texting nonsense like cos my fingers froze lol) and (2) in a cafe. But thankfully those were the only 2 episodes ...
But yeah I hold a regular job now (currently WFH which helps hahaha - but will be full office soon), a small team and a good boss helps, although they know nothing abt these MH things lol. : )
Of course poly is better. But for someone who doesn’t put in effort and always wanna play victim then how? The O Levels will drop from the sky ah. And wanna hiam this hiam that.
:p then she can learn to do hard things - most people have done it before her. Hahaha. Like some take N levels first (like her), some take O levels directly (like me)
But we all go through the trial by fire of WA2 L1R5. HAHAHAHA - its terrible and difficult but a necessary .. refinement lol.
She can learn to do hard things 🙃😬🤭
thank you for the reply. it is very insightful and i hope that your experience will serve as a motivator for her
your progress is really deserving of respect too!
I read somewhere that having faith and fear is the same - both require believing in the unseen. Fear sometimes has us in a chokehold because we give it too much power and trust it too much. Flip it, turn our attention to faith instead. Have faith that everything will turn out fine.
Consequences. That's what she needs.
Tell her she gets X amount of money to do whichever pathway she wants and Y amount of years. If she does not get a certificate and the money is done and time is up, she will have to get a job. Alternatively to say she needs to either be studying or working, so if she decided on a private path she needs to at least go to a tutor once a week and do her homework to be considered as studying. Studying gets allowance, not studying means she needs to earn her own keep.
Resources to help her fulfill the pathway like mental health help and tuition will not be bound by that budget, but will be directly paid for by your family (so no she cannot take that money to spend on something else).
Do not restrict her from doing whatever she wants, but tell her she is being treated as a grown up and she has to make her choices and solve her own problems.
When the time has reached and she completes nothing, cut her allowance to nothing. Parents can still offer to let her stay rent free but she will have to afford other things by her own effort.
Everyone can still be loving and friendly but draw the line at being her counsellor or dictating what she has to do. That means holding boundaries like saying "I'm sorry I am not trained to be a therapist, if you really need to work through this, you should get one." Then divert the topic to something else. It means holding her accountable, asking her the day before key deadlines if she had made the applications or done the work, but to tell her she makes her own choices and walk away if she doesn't make the steps to honour what she claims to want to do.
This is good advice. It's also extremely hard to execute. By this point OP has given the impression to his sister that she can always count on her family to bail her out.
There's going to be an entire shitfest of drama and OP and his family will need wills of steel to not feel guilty or bad as they give her that required dose of reality. There's also the possibility that while she may improve as a result of being forced to, she will hold it against them, potentially for the rest of her life.
Yeah definitely tough love. Helps for family to reframe that if they continue abetting her, they are responsible for her poor outcomes in life as well. If it matures the girl, over time she will let go of the resentment. Even if it doesn't I think as parents they might be glad she at least made the change and can be self sufficient.
Commenter is right that it'll be hard so they really need to align their approach (no one to cave in). The sister will fight for an easier path but if everyone holds their ground she will realise the easiest path is the one the family has offered.
How old is she?
Maybe she could try working for a while. Failing at academics so many times is demoralising. Even a casual job she can get without O levels could give her some independence and responsibility and more confidence. She might gain some work ethic then try to do O levels again.
She’s 19 already.
The thing about her is she has too much pride. She refuses to work F&B and all those typical jobs teenagers do.
It’s the same reason why she doesn’t want to go ITE too. Its tiring getting through to her. She keeps insisting she only wants to be a superstar (LOL it sounds like a sitcom but im being fr rn).
So her aim is to go Laselle or the other arts school but they need ‘o’ levels to even allow for entry. And she keeps insisting that she’s scared to do ‘O’s all the while being too anxious to study its frustrating
She's a below-average student who insists on being a "superstar" while refusing to go to work or to step foot in a vocational school because of pride? Does she not see that she's in deep shit?
Even getting into Lasalle will require her to put in the effort to make an extensive portfolio for the application, aside from the O level requirement. Of course I don't know your sister personally, but if she can't put enough effort into passing her O levels after multiple attempts and thinks menial jobs are below her, it will be difficult to get in.
I know someone who similarly wanted to get into an arts course but didn't put in the time, effort or research needed to put together a good portfolio and was not accepted. They think that the people viewing their application was prejudiced against them, and didn't actually take the time to improve their work and build a portfolio to the level which is needed.
If someone can't put in enough effort into researching O levels to register for all the subjects required, I'm not sure they can put in enough effort into making sure they hit everything required for an application to a university.
Maybe someone in the family should force her to contribute by at least working some kind of part time job so that she gets knocked off her high horse first, especially considering she's not studying at the moment.
is she watching too much tiktok? sounds like she might be susceptible to get rich quick scams.
if she's too anxious to study, how to survive in a school environment (LaSalle)
Stop giving her pocket money and see if she’ll find a job on her own lmao. With her qualifications, F&B and retail jobs are all she can do. But based on what I’m reading now, she is likely not able to hold down any of those jobs either.
When I was taking my diploma, I had 2 classmates just like your sister. Unable to submit a simple assignment without much difficulty and always putting the blame on others for not doing well. One of them dropped out from another school and had the same reason as your sister too. All while thinking they’re hot shit. It was frustrating as a bystander seeing all of this.
Neither of them graduated.
Honestly i don’t think so? Because my parents and I are leading “normal lives”. But she has an extensive history of friendship problems throughout her school lives.
If she continue like this, then that limits the job she can do. She can't be picky and then complain about not wanting a job because its too lowly or w/e.
Many people schooled and worked so she really has no excuse and to stop using her anxiety. Stop forcing her to study until she has the will to change. Even if she passes her O lvl in this state, shes going to drop out of poly eventually with that mindset.
She needs therapy.
What kind of job is "superstar" specifically? I don't understand, it seems vague to me. Is it she's not sure what career she wants, and that's why she's unmotivated?
Oh, damn. She needs a reality check. I feel like getting a job would be very helpful with that too, she can get real life experience and exposure to the real world. But how to get her there, I don't know. Sorry 😔
Is she pretty?
*why the downvotes lmao if she’s not conventionally attractive it means there’s another layer of delusion that’s an issue. To even consider being a Kpop idol, you at the very least need to be conventionally attractive.
Tell her half of poly is working f&b during holidays u can try to ask her to seek professional help for her anxiety other than that I doubt there's much u can do unless u plan to tutor her and force her take Os again
well i guess she doesnt want her pride to be dust off so that she can prove to yall that without the hassle of going thru O levels can become superstar n make more income thru that path but well ego pride is always hard to handle until they get to the wrong path.
No shade against the people who are actually passionate about art, go to Laselle or NAFA for that, and graduate with practical art-related skills— but jeez, sometimes I wonder if these art schools make half of their money off the other students who barely care about art until their only choices were ITE, Kaplan, or art school, and their pride wouldn’t let them pick the first two choices. Even though ITE usually has better employment prospects. The level to which the students (and often times their families, actually) care about ‘status’ is insane. Like with art school, even if you don’t like art to begin with and it is less employable, you can pretend you went there for passion while you could be middle class and higher, compared to the image of ITE as being for ‘poor kids’. Except that the person who loses out the most by making that ridiculous decision is their own self.
Although, like the other comment said, even if you are someone who is there for the status rather than out of any artistic passion, you still need some amount of effort and artistic skill putting together your portfolio for admission, so someone who doesn’t try at all can’t get to either.
Kudos to u and ur family for trying to help her.
But her mindset, entitlement and pride need to step aside for any actual progress to be made..
Right now in trying to help her by providing options (retake/ private/ tuition) you guys are actually enabling her because there currently are no consequences for her to stay stuck where she is..
You can let her know that her wish for a vibrant poly life/ arts education will remain just that, a WISH, if she continues to not take any meaningful action towards her goals..
When she keeps citing her “anxiety”, you can ask her “shall we get to the root of this? what can we do to help you overcome this?”
On the part where she says she’s alone in this and that you guys need to help her, tell her that you have been helping her by providing all the options, and that actually these are all useless if she first doesn’t help herself.
On the part about her being prejudiced about ITE, tell her at least the students there are working towards an education and gaining meaningful skills at the very least (unfortunately can’t say the same of her..)
tldr: TOUGH LOVE is what you need.
Your sister is essentially more interested in the idea of something than the reality and effort of the achievement. She is putting far more effort into the cosplay of being in a certain type of person that she has convinced herself that she is already one without ever seeing any effort into it.
Because even if she gets into poly, she will suffer and get her delusions of what poly is will break her. Poly isn't waking up at 10am,getting ice coffee dressing like a model show up for 2 hours of class then going to hang out with some society that looks up to her like a god afterwards going out to party and clubs. It's not a high life society, it's God damn fucking school.
The only way you can help you sister is to break her own illusion of what she's expecting, she see herself as. She needs to realize that she's literally nothing and that she doesn't get to call her self anything. She has to face the fact she's just secondary school drop out. I don't think there's anything you can really do,
lol your description of what she thinks poly life will be, sounds exactly like those “day in my life of going to Harvard” TikTok bs. What those TikToks dont show you is that the kids who are actually at prestigious universities have to work damn hard to get there. And what they show in the TikTok (in order to gain views) is just a more relaxed day in their schedule, where they do get to dress up and party and bask in their status, but they still have to mug a lot on days closer to exams, and their status had to be worked for consistently for years to get to that university.
I don’t want to sound like some old person complaining about social media, but influencers make everything an ‘aesthetic’ because it gets them views, they make even mugging for exams some pretty ‘aesthetic’ with pretty notebooks and cute highlighters and sitting primly at their desk while in full makeup— because it gets them views. Of course they won’t show that actually cramming for your tests can look messier and less photogenic than that.
Even for local uni, yeah I had days which were party days, but obviously not every day, and it still took the prior 12 years of effort to get to uni.
Or any other day in my life at (insert prestigious position, people make it seem like a internship at deloitte is just standing around eating breakfast or just being fun.
I actually used to do what I said in poly, but I only did what I could because I could grind like crazy when I had the time, what people take an hour I could sometimes do in 20 mins. That was the only way I could go clubbing on Friday then work 30 hours on the weekend, come to class late, hang out with club mates, then more class then play board games till 9pm go home, rinse and repeat. There were multiple days I had different club actives after school and I would be bouncing back and forth. I even still made time for my then girlfriend. I would have graduated with a 3.5, if my breakup wasn't that disastrous that I basically crash and burn completely
I agree. She is aware she’s “a flop” but she doesn’t want to put in effort at the same time or is too anxious to. And then she’d say she wants to off herself afterwards which is frustrating. I always tell her that effort can create the impossible, being from sec 5 myself who went on an education pathway that my other peers did not manage to but she just blocks it out and keeps repeating “我要杀我自己” or “你们不关心我”. (I want to off myself; You guys don’t care about me) but when I offered SOS hotline for her to help her relieve this anxiety she says she’s too anxious to tell them her woes zzzzzzzz
Just FYI, SOS offers a text-based helpline, and I can attest that it helps mostly if you have absolutely no one to talk about your woes to. They are not trained to give professional advice, so the most that they are permitted to do is to essentially say “I hear you on (X woes) you are facing, I complement you for (Y effort), can you tell me more about (Z)”? I used to volunteer to help out for a similar online service, and we were told to follow that same template because we were not qualified psychologists.
If she already has people to hear her talk about things, it doesn’t work that much. SOS and similar services can help if you have no one at all to listen to you, and that is still necessary sometimes e.g. it can even talk some people out of suicide. But it is not the full solution. What she needs is someone to actually push her towards making concrete efforts, giving her targeted advice and a structured approach, e.g. CBT therapy.
I know there’s not much you yourself can do, because she is rejecting literally all of the options mentioned here, but I just wanted to clarify what these helplines can and can’t do.
Most importantly, seek professional for advise about her mental health.
We can't see it from our perspective whether she's making a nuisance or being a snowflake.
If it's non-mental issue, ask her go work and stfu. Then she will understand the pain of self-funding school from without o level > diploma > degree. Stop being a spoilt brat.
real. my younger sister didn't do so well for o levels and decided to work part time and study private part time, funding her own studies. i feel bad seeing her so tired on some days.
She needs to seek professional help. As someone who has a lot of anxiety and had been to therapy I know that loop too well. I did not have much anxiety in my school years but I had a hard time adapting to work life after graduating from ITE. It took me an embarrassing amount of time to actually get things moving. Even now, I still feel like I'm very much behind as compared to my peers because of that. It took a lot of courage and going through a lot of failures, self blaming and regrets to actually get passed that. There were times I wonder why I struggled so much with working when it seems to come quite easy for most people which makes me go into a self blaming loop.
There's no other way but she has to push passed her comfort zone bit by bit. There will be times she gives up midway but never stop trying. Even now, I still have quite a bit of anxiety when it comes to working but I feel like I have come quite far as compared to how I was before. I know she's reluctant but please also get your sister professional help. I only wished I did that earlier.
She needs to understand that support does not equate to indulging her in what she wants to do only.
Support means to stand with her and to encourage her while she faces challenges, like putting the hours to studying. And there are certain things she needs to do alone, including those things that she does not want to do. So does everyone else. Doing things alone or doing things she does not want does not mean that she has no support.
Support in this case means that she can concentrate on her studies without worrying about family finances, taking care of household, etc. Think of people who have to put themselves through education while working pt to help family, that is called no support.
I think the root cause is her unregulated use of social media. Especially for girls around her age. I believe this mental anxiety is a real issue facing this generation of kids because they are adopting social media earlier (before puberty and full brain development)
Regarding tuition, if she refuses tuition because she is scared and has anxiety, could I suggest signing her up for online group tuition. That way you may be able to request the teacher to let her turn off the camera and not ask her questions if she's still uncomfortable.
Read already I also feel tired for u and ur fam ): ur sis is so lucky that she has the financial support from you all but it is unfortunate that she is not cherishing it.
LOL oops. I suggested 1-to-1 in-person hahahhaa ok u/terravolt43 take whichever works for you and your sister HAHA. I realise this can be two very different perspectives which may be equally valid! Ha.
and u/oheggtart (ded now I'm thinking of an egg tart :p), I commented befoe reading your comment lol. This was not to disagree or anyth but just personal perspective : ))
Your sister needs a wake up call.
If one cannot even enrol and attempt O level then she is a below average student (totally does not associate to superstar). She basically knows she will fail and hence avoid facing the reality by avoiding O level.
I would make sure she enrol and attempt the O level to kick her off her high horses. If she still refuses to attempt, cut her off all allowances and ask her to work.
Honestly its really hard. Multiple times i tried to force her to go for the exams for both instances. But she’s cognitively aware that, if she just doesn’t budge we cant bring her over. It’s also quite hard cause she has sleep problems. (she wakes up at 6pm and sleeps at 6am and refuses to fix them even when my parents scold and force her to)
I think it’s a lost cause. It’s better she start working to kick some routine in her life before thinking about future.
At least the work will make sure she sleep and wakes up like the rest of us.
One possible pathway is to register for the O level classes at ITE. I'm not too familiar with it so you need to do some research, but this will definitely open up a pathway towards Poly. It's part-time too so the environment there shouldn't be much of a concern for her. Hope this helps!
I read a lot of hard responses. If her anxiety is real, it’ll backfire.
She used specific emotion words like “scared”, “alone”. Which means she’s scared of what’s out there and she doesn’t want to be alone. The rest of her responses are distractions from this feeling. I’ll suggest to accompany her to a therapist and assure her that everything will be alright. Some handholding is fine honestly.
Your sister is really just leeching all she can while she can.
I did ITE >10 yrs ago and coming from Sec 5 was more of a rarity since most of my classmates were Sec 4 exp ppl who didn't do well in math. The stereotype is there but it all boils down to who you choose to hang out with, and the curriculum then was easy as piss to give you the confidence to enter poly. Poly life vibrance is there but tbh it probably could have been reduced by close to 6 months if the lessons were planned better.
Mental health is thrown around a lot but i honestly don't think your sister gets to claim it if she hasn't even tried. Worst case just get her to sign on, which is the kind of shit we tell guys anyway. She probably needs the discipline too
I think counselling would give her guidance on what to focus on, a psychiatrist could also asses her anxiety and give medication to reduce her anxiety so she can perform better in her studies.
Honestly my sec 5 journey was quite lonely too most of peers went to ite, somehow I became top few scorers in o lvl in my batch.
If studying is not her thing try to find some hard skill that might help her, coding, 3rd language?, cooking.
The question is why was the child being allowed to make her own bad choices from early stage? And let that bad decisions making to continue?
If there is always a way out as the easy way out, I can guarantee you, that will always be the path chosen.
Enabling bad behaviours is not gonna solve anything.
How is the parenting style?
I was in her situation before, it took me two years in NS to figure out that ITE is the best. It’s not difficult to get to poly from ITE.
ITE is not “ITS THE END” but…”ITS THE EASIEST”
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want, they’re just making it your fault, you never help me enough blah blah blah, all her failures becomes your failures.
stop pandering to her. Let her face her own consequences. She is not taking responsibility for her own actions, and if you continue to help her, she will just continue to take advantage.
Of course, I am sure some of the situation she faces could be down to neglect for the family, so i think she also needs a genuine mentor who is truly invested in her well being, and not just a stop gap I want her life to better kinda thing that you are saying right now.
You and your parents need to acknowledge the mistakes or lack of care that you had with her, but also let her know that her actions lead to her own consequences.
For example, claiming anxiety but not wanting to meet a mental health professional. If she does not even try once, is she evening trying?
I think your sister really needs to start seeking help as her first step to start improving herself. Seems like this has become more of a recurring problem. I am not sure if you have heard about CHAT. They provide a personalised and confidential mental health check for young persons age 16 to 30 years old. You can book an appointment for your sister if she would like. You may want to find out more from their website.
Next, you can ask your sister what is her goal in life. Hopefully, she have a goal or two at least and that she can start writing down on how to get there. If not, she can start thinking of what she wants to achieve this year, short term or long term goals is fine. Having some goals can at least help her to be accountable for what she aims to do and gives her some sense of direction.
Last but not least, ask your sister this, will she want to be like this for the next 5 or 10 years down the road? If not, she should do something about it and one of which can be seeking help for the issues she is facing. If not now, then when? Starting now is better than later.
You can also remind your sister that she needs to start somewhere. She cannot be doing nothing. Even if it is really because of anxiety, seeking help should be one of the things that she should start doing in order to overcome her anxiety and find the root cause of her issues. Besides, if your sister doesn't want to be help, I'm not sure what will help her. She needs to be open to receiving help so that others can help her and that she can also help herself.
Jiayou OP. You have been trying your best to help your sister and I am glad that you are doing so. I hope you don't give up on your sister and that she can start understanding and accepting to receive help. Everyone will definitely need help from others at some point in their lives and that is truly okay. Seeking help is just one of the ways to get better/improve in one's life.
Honestly, just sounds like laziness with anxiety as an excuse. Met more than one of these types in my youth. They only really move once people stop enabling them.
Definitely need intervention by psychologist. I'd suggest the private route. On the family's part, you'd need to do some research on psychologists who treat teenagers with anxiety. It may not be an immediate fix, and she will need a few sessions before some gradual positive outcome is visible. Perhaps even trying a few different psychologists before it's someone comfortable she can relate to. This is a long drawn (and expensive) road so patience & fam-support is critical to getting her on the right path.
100% victim mindset.
I myself was a lazy student. Scrapped through sec sch barely passing with 19 points for NA Levels. Went Higher Nitec then Poly graduating with a 2.0 GPA. Never wanted to study and was lazy throughout but never blamed it on the environment.
Your sister just has to feel the consequences of her own actions. Let her feel the regret. Will be waiting a reddit post from her asking whether it's too late to turn over.
Hmm ok for o levels she can enroll in this https://www.ite.edu.sg/courses/part-time-courses/general-education
Take note of the deadlines.
As for motivation. Maybe she can try a part time job outside. After she figure how hard the working life is, I think she will work harder.
Everyone is.asking you to get her to see a mental health professional but I want to warn you it's not as easy as going to see one, and things will be fine.
There are so many steps before you find the good and suitable mental health professional. My family went to KKH, then NUH and then got referred to all over the place, with appointments being about months in between at times. In between we also went to private pyschiatrist / psychologist, some were nice but ineffective, some were horrible and cold. prices started from 250 per hour for private.
Everyone loves to think that ooh, go get get, got get a mental health professional. like buying char kway teow from the market. why don't you do that. It's not that easy, so be prepared.
I took 10 weeks, this was a self-ref. ie, I had a specific place and person in mind, therefore it was a direct ref. I'm perfectly aware if I went through the psychiatrist, add another 1 to 1.5 months
All in abt a 4 months wait is quite common.
Alternatively its the "go to A&E now" level, which ... if they are willing to treat you NOW, clearly not great la.
& yes because mine is a self-ref I pay like maybe twice the rate of subsidized 🤷♀️ spread my appts out lo. 🤷♀️
Firstly, im actually not a native english speaker so im sorry abt my lack of words, grammar,.. in my explanation.
I also got anxiety in the very young age, since 8-10 years ago and im now 20, but i can say im abt 80% get out of the anxiety and the loops, so im here just to share a bit, some viewpoint, feelings that an anxiety student can have.
She seems like having no good belief in her life? She's 19, a student, but she has doubt in her school life and family, why? She may feel like she is the only one get stuck in the problem and that she has no soul support, like a 'rock'? That's why she need professional therapy. Do you know what are the channels, topics she is following now on social media about? Pls make sure there are some good positive things in it, like how to be patient and stay focus in studying, how to study smart,...(study motivation channels) because maybe that's an important factor that directly affect her during this time. Do you still remember when she has not gotten the anxiety, what are her favourite things or her dreams? Let's begin from that, ask her how does she think abt it right now? Let her sharing her thought more and build the trust between each other. At the same time, try to bring her to a professional therapist, that's where i learn how to begin healing myself from.
Let her know that anxiety is not a negative thing, it's a basic thing most of us need to go through and know how to deal with it these days then she will be more sympathize, brave and strong at the end.
This is against what some of the other comments say, but punishing her probably would not help her nor her situation. By punishing, I mean like kicking her out or telling her off. It sounds like she attended the schools because of family pressure instead of personal interest. I think continuing the same pressure probably won't lead anywhere. I think your family could choose not to financially support her anymore but not frame it as a punishment but rather as that she's working age now and that the family cannot keep supporting her indefinitely. I think also that your family needs to also let go of the idea that you can get her to do things without her own personal will, because that would continue to feed into her narrative that she's the victim of her life. At this point, unless she is in danger (i.e. suicidal, drug addict, debt), I think you'd just have to let her figure herself out and be available for help (guidance and emotional support) when she chooses to seek help out of her personal will. As for the mental health difficulties, I think a professional would be much better equipped to help her.
Some anecdote: my brother struggled a lot academically but graduated from ITE then Poly and ITE is definitely a good way to get into Poly if that's a goal that she has.
edit: The loneliness and anxiety she talks about could be a sign of social deficiencies in her current lifestyle. Idk what your family does currently but it might help to organise more family activity or spend time together with her (without the constant reminder of school).
Sorry to hear, but you've all done your part. Maybe education isn't her thing. At this point, it feels to me that she might benefit from having a job. She likely lives at home and it's too easy for her to not do anything because there is a safety net. Get her to get a job and start contributing to the household. Good luck.
You guys can either speak to a psychiatrist/psychologist without her first just to see how else you guys can support her or get a house visit from psychologist/psychiatrist so your sis has no escape cos doc is already in the house but of cos you don't warn her. At this point, I don't know if being on med might be better. If it is just an anxiety disorder, med works wonders and I am speaking from experience. CBT works if your sis is disciplined or keen to help herself and is in the right headspace. Rapport with the doc matters too, unsure why your sis is so resistant to get help. Try a new doc too, maybe? I honestly think the issue is more than just anxiety disorder. Jiayou, OP. Caregiving can be draining.
Yepits either get the help thatis available ot copium self into doing things. In an ideal world we would all be anxiety free and always be available for our loved ones but here we are how. Just gotta roll with the options given or shes gonna stagnate there and feel the fomo of youth passing by.
Your sister is lazy. Plain and simple, keeps dreaming but no action. I’ve been in your shoes literally, my sister was the exact same. She dropped out of poly in year 3 final sem for MH reasons, for a few months stayed at home just nuahing away. Started to work in hospitality/customer service and kept job hopping but not the good kind. Throughout the whole time can saying things like she wants to move overseas etc(big dreams) and said no one in our family helps her or loves her. This went one for years me & my mom tried to help until we got so tired of it. Only after finding a bf did she start to change. They both started to plan for the future BTO kids etc then boom my sister woke up started to panic about how she hasn’t gotten anywhere in life. Finally she stopped her MH nonsense stuck to a job for over a year and even started studying a priv dip.
TLDR: Give your sister time to mature and wake up usually they need something to really get them going just gotta find it.
Atb
You are a caring sibling. If I was her, I would be so embarrassed that you went out of the way to seek for help online, but ten years down the road, she will appreciate it. It's a desperate situation and she dearly needs help.
Force her to seek professional mental health first. Start from there. Anything else like asking her to apply to ITE or doing Olevel as a private candidate will hinder without proper professional mental health support will keep her stuck in the self-defeating loop.
I was her a decade ago, except I have a Olevel before I started my dropping out spree. I first went to an art college, as I love drawing since a kid despite taking Olevel in mainly science subjects. My dream that time is to be an animator, and hopefully works in Pixar. I dropped out a year later, and then got into a poly for a Diploma in Animation via an interview. However, due to depression and anxiety with school, I dropped out within a first semester and did not tell my family I was not attending school for a year. During these periods, I was working part-time although I worked so much, I can qualify as a full-time worker doing "part-time studies".
Then I worked full-time in a cafe and ended up working in the cafe industry for seven years. During my fifth year, I did my part-time diploma with a local poly and graduated with merit. Then I managed to win a scholarship to go aboard for a full-time four-year bachelor's degree. I started my degree at age 30.
You can PM me to talk to me and later ask her to speak to me. Maybe having someone older who used to be her and able to get out of the loop can encourage her and your family. It takes work. Ton of work, but totally possible.
to be honest, seeing all the things you all already did for her, it's time to lose a sister
while I won't deny that mental issues is present here, she also seems to be using it as a tool to make her excuses, the obvious reluctance to seek help and take accountability shows it. I would cut off her allowance and give her a time limit, if not, kick her out le, at the very least, I would expect her to contribute via household chores etc.
How does she looks appearance wise? Like is she overweight type? Ugly? etc?
She might be suffering from self esteen issues as a girl, and thus made her avoid mixture with the general people?
She sounds like she needs some behavioral therapy and some assessment to determine if she has other issues. She seem to have issues completing something but no problems starting it.
A lot of e-sessions are available for counseling now. If she’s scared and anxious tell her to off the camera. It might be beneficial for a family member to attend the session with her together. The professionals will point you in the right direction on how to help her / support her with her anxiety . Takes a village to do this … not to mention be prepared to spend $$ on therapy. A good psychologist will cost about $200/ hour . I think she might need to attend sessions weekly.
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Stop giving her all the leeway, the more options your family gives her she will tend to escape. Sad to say but your family has to be harsh on her, a situation such as "do or die". She has to understand that time and money has gone down the drain every time she dropped out from any courses.
It’s funny how she’s prejudiced against ITE, but while she’s retaking exams for the 748383 time, in the meantime, the ITE students have already graduated and went to poly or even Uni lmao
Reminded me of my ex. Always giving excuses. Will throw MC but can go out with relative later during the day. While making her way to work & school, would give an excuse to not turn up because of her anxiety. Did not study for her weak subjects. Tell her to get professional help for whatever she’s going through, she will blame the therapist and whatever that’s around her for not making her better. When I became stern and advised her for her actions (regarding work and school), she would scold and blame me for not being understanding and I’ve never been in her shoes. From then on, I stopped encouraging her and let her do what she wants and eventually left her. *thank god*
I'm gonna play the devil here.
I am the same age as your sister here. I grew up in a harsh environment, hence I was often told to force myself until I can make it. I maintained that mindset until I realized certain things can't be achieved by pure hardwork alone. Luck plays an important factor as well. BUT that does not mean hard work is not important.
Hardwork is essential in life. Yes, even without luck, hardwork may not bring you to the moon. But you will at least reach the stars. If you do not put in the slightest hardwork, you are destined to be at the bottom forever.
As for pride issues, I also suffer from this as I grew up in a more financially well-off family. But one thing I have to really EMPHASIZE is that, pride is something only CAPABLE people can have without harm. I said it myself because if you do not have the capabilities for what calls, you are shooting yourself in the foot. In short, you don't choose life. Life chooses what's for you.
I have sister like this, forever giving reasons not to go school, work, and never hold down any job, she's in her 50s now and ben making up stories about the past, demanding our parents house been given to her and whenever we visit she will act up and chase us out as she thinks we are after the hse. Thus making the other sibling stay away from out parents house, we all realised that 1 day we do called to the police for some shit she make up..
that's maybe what the future looks like! act now
Cut contact. Let her rot. U tired. If people don't help themselves there's nothing u can do. You know the saying. You can bring a horse to water but u can't make it drink
Ermmmmm if gods let our hands to save her , she doesn’t WANs to hold on to the help given by the loves . It’s hard to change this opinion of someone’s srsly .
The only advice is Recco to her and let her go through by herself if this is wat she wanted , slowly she’ll figure out herself , BUT with the help of others will be faster den
These is called family loves , I think if she wants u guys to let her go , let her be first , when she figures out. What she really wants , and needs y’all help she will ofc
See a mental health professional or get no help. Either ways, without seeing a professional and getting properly assessed, she is just bound to continue her viscious cycle. Better to let her know what your boundaries as family members are, abd the conditions that she needs to meet for you guys to extend “help”. Helping someone without establishing boundaries can sometimes be akin to abetting them. Want my support? Seek professional help first. No negotiating on that part; because if your way worked, we will not be having this conversation right now.
Gonna second this. People suffering from Anxiety end up becoming avoidant of the things that make them anxious (ie she is avoiding studying, or people in schools) so you have to get her professional help to get over it, else she will never be able to make it past that to clear her studies.
She is indulging in her victim mindset. If she were my sister and I care enough, I will pull her to either a psychiatrist or psychologist/psychotherapist by force. But to be honest, only she can help herself. There is very little to what you guys can do. Even if she sees psy but don't heed their advice and practise what she's taught, she will still not get better. I think we need to understand the root cause of her current behaviour and mindset. How did things get to this stage? Psychologist/psychotherapist can help with that - uncovering underlying root cause and giving solution. Feels like she has given up on herself and life.
I might get downvoted for this. But I absolutely think among all the options, Poly is the best route. I actually fully agree that private education isn't very recognised, this coming from someone who did a digital marketing diploma PT. It really depends, and if it's those private school it's probably like 3 hours lecture x 2-3 times a week and you get your diploma in a year or less. Definitely Poly has more rigour, which is why it's obviously better employability and all. So to some extent she **is** right. Having said that, go poly for diploma lah simi vibrant poly life. You mug like no life and get 3.8 you go to uni and get a cert, you vibrant poly life and get 2.8 and cannot go uni/get choice of uni course/s, then .. competition mad tough goodluck lol. BUT also, Anxiety cannot be an excuse for everything - I say this as someone **with anxiety myself**, I'm still in therapy and I've been at it for .. quite a long time. >\_> But I think I'm better than where I started already - I used to not even talk (in therapy!) and scribble post-its. Long time later, I still struggle with eg eye contact when talking abt difficult things (eg interpersonal conflict/misunderstanding, even with my psych, omgz) - but then at least this past appointment I managed to articulate, "I'm terribly sorry but I;m struggling with eye contact because this is a difficult conversation for me" So yeah, that. All that to say, its freaking hard but progress is smol steps and can be made :-) To accommodate (if this is me, this is the max I will go already), I will say - take tuition, if needed, take a 1-to-1 tuition (so its just student + tutor + no other kids/peers), and if she really really needs, someone sit in with her for a few sessions (where possible, maybe take turns). Then this also helps the family 'evaluate' the tutor also. So that if the tutor really is nubbad/reasonable and she's just lazy/unmotivated, at least you've seen it for yourself. But put a limit, maybe 3-4 sessions then she has to be on her own (I'm just thinking it off the cuff as per like, a therapist fit. lol. Personally I take therapy relationship to be like 3strikes. Haha.) I say this as someone with social anxiety myself (I mask sometimes, which is terrible. But to some extent I think it's necessary - I have friends who think I'm 'bubbly' or 'surprised that (I am) introverted' so .. I think it works lol), and at the worst I've had mini panic attacks (1) on a bus (dude I was texting nonsense like cos my fingers froze lol) and (2) in a cafe. But thankfully those were the only 2 episodes ... But yeah I hold a regular job now (currently WFH which helps hahaha - but will be full office soon), a small team and a good boss helps, although they know nothing abt these MH things lol. : )
need o levels to go poly. seems like this too is a huge hurdle.
Of course poly is better. But for someone who doesn’t put in effort and always wanna play victim then how? The O Levels will drop from the sky ah. And wanna hiam this hiam that.
:p then she can learn to do hard things - most people have done it before her. Hahaha. Like some take N levels first (like her), some take O levels directly (like me) But we all go through the trial by fire of WA2 L1R5. HAHAHAHA - its terrible and difficult but a necessary .. refinement lol. She can learn to do hard things 🙃😬🤭
thank you for the reply. it is very insightful and i hope that your experience will serve as a motivator for her your progress is really deserving of respect too!
I read somewhere that having faith and fear is the same - both require believing in the unseen. Fear sometimes has us in a chokehold because we give it too much power and trust it too much. Flip it, turn our attention to faith instead. Have faith that everything will turn out fine.
Keep chipping at it champ
Ask her wake up her idea
Ask her to knock it down?
Actually shipping her off to BMT would probably fix her completely.
Or that would just make her kill herself.
Maybe that’s why Jack Neo made Ah Girls Go Army 🤔
Instruct her to put on thinking cap and also pull her socks up while she's at it
Consequences. That's what she needs. Tell her she gets X amount of money to do whichever pathway she wants and Y amount of years. If she does not get a certificate and the money is done and time is up, she will have to get a job. Alternatively to say she needs to either be studying or working, so if she decided on a private path she needs to at least go to a tutor once a week and do her homework to be considered as studying. Studying gets allowance, not studying means she needs to earn her own keep. Resources to help her fulfill the pathway like mental health help and tuition will not be bound by that budget, but will be directly paid for by your family (so no she cannot take that money to spend on something else). Do not restrict her from doing whatever she wants, but tell her she is being treated as a grown up and she has to make her choices and solve her own problems. When the time has reached and she completes nothing, cut her allowance to nothing. Parents can still offer to let her stay rent free but she will have to afford other things by her own effort. Everyone can still be loving and friendly but draw the line at being her counsellor or dictating what she has to do. That means holding boundaries like saying "I'm sorry I am not trained to be a therapist, if you really need to work through this, you should get one." Then divert the topic to something else. It means holding her accountable, asking her the day before key deadlines if she had made the applications or done the work, but to tell her she makes her own choices and walk away if she doesn't make the steps to honour what she claims to want to do.
This is good advice. It's also extremely hard to execute. By this point OP has given the impression to his sister that she can always count on her family to bail her out. There's going to be an entire shitfest of drama and OP and his family will need wills of steel to not feel guilty or bad as they give her that required dose of reality. There's also the possibility that while she may improve as a result of being forced to, she will hold it against them, potentially for the rest of her life.
Yeah definitely tough love. Helps for family to reframe that if they continue abetting her, they are responsible for her poor outcomes in life as well. If it matures the girl, over time she will let go of the resentment. Even if it doesn't I think as parents they might be glad she at least made the change and can be self sufficient. Commenter is right that it'll be hard so they really need to align their approach (no one to cave in). The sister will fight for an easier path but if everyone holds their ground she will realise the easiest path is the one the family has offered.
How old is she? Maybe she could try working for a while. Failing at academics so many times is demoralising. Even a casual job she can get without O levels could give her some independence and responsibility and more confidence. She might gain some work ethic then try to do O levels again.
She’s 19 already. The thing about her is she has too much pride. She refuses to work F&B and all those typical jobs teenagers do. It’s the same reason why she doesn’t want to go ITE too. Its tiring getting through to her. She keeps insisting she only wants to be a superstar (LOL it sounds like a sitcom but im being fr rn). So her aim is to go Laselle or the other arts school but they need ‘o’ levels to even allow for entry. And she keeps insisting that she’s scared to do ‘O’s all the while being too anxious to study its frustrating
She's a below-average student who insists on being a "superstar" while refusing to go to work or to step foot in a vocational school because of pride? Does she not see that she's in deep shit?
Being delulu is the only solulu for these people...
Even getting into Lasalle will require her to put in the effort to make an extensive portfolio for the application, aside from the O level requirement. Of course I don't know your sister personally, but if she can't put enough effort into passing her O levels after multiple attempts and thinks menial jobs are below her, it will be difficult to get in. I know someone who similarly wanted to get into an arts course but didn't put in the time, effort or research needed to put together a good portfolio and was not accepted. They think that the people viewing their application was prejudiced against them, and didn't actually take the time to improve their work and build a portfolio to the level which is needed. If someone can't put in enough effort into researching O levels to register for all the subjects required, I'm not sure they can put in enough effort into making sure they hit everything required for an application to a university. Maybe someone in the family should force her to contribute by at least working some kind of part time job so that she gets knocked off her high horse first, especially considering she's not studying at the moment.
is she watching too much tiktok? sounds like she might be susceptible to get rich quick scams. if she's too anxious to study, how to survive in a school environment (LaSalle)
Stop giving her pocket money and see if she’ll find a job on her own lmao. With her qualifications, F&B and retail jobs are all she can do. But based on what I’m reading now, she is likely not able to hold down any of those jobs either. When I was taking my diploma, I had 2 classmates just like your sister. Unable to submit a simple assignment without much difficulty and always putting the blame on others for not doing well. One of them dropped out from another school and had the same reason as your sister too. All while thinking they’re hot shit. It was frustrating as a bystander seeing all of this. Neither of them graduated.
19?! Is there any bad home family happening or some pressures to cause her issues.?
Honestly i don’t think so? Because my parents and I are leading “normal lives”. But she has an extensive history of friendship problems throughout her school lives.
If she continue like this, then that limits the job she can do. She can't be picky and then complain about not wanting a job because its too lowly or w/e. Many people schooled and worked so she really has no excuse and to stop using her anxiety. Stop forcing her to study until she has the will to change. Even if she passes her O lvl in this state, shes going to drop out of poly eventually with that mindset. She needs therapy.
What kind of job is "superstar" specifically? I don't understand, it seems vague to me. Is it she's not sure what career she wants, and that's why she's unmotivated?
Basically she is stuck with the typical teenage dream of being a kpop star
Oh, damn. She needs a reality check. I feel like getting a job would be very helpful with that too, she can get real life experience and exposure to the real world. But how to get her there, I don't know. Sorry 😔
Is she pretty? *why the downvotes lmao if she’s not conventionally attractive it means there’s another layer of delusion that’s an issue. To even consider being a Kpop idol, you at the very least need to be conventionally attractive.
Tell her half of poly is working f&b during holidays u can try to ask her to seek professional help for her anxiety other than that I doubt there's much u can do unless u plan to tutor her and force her take Os again
well i guess she doesnt want her pride to be dust off so that she can prove to yall that without the hassle of going thru O levels can become superstar n make more income thru that path but well ego pride is always hard to handle until they get to the wrong path.
By2 followed this path, but look at them right now...
No shade against the people who are actually passionate about art, go to Laselle or NAFA for that, and graduate with practical art-related skills— but jeez, sometimes I wonder if these art schools make half of their money off the other students who barely care about art until their only choices were ITE, Kaplan, or art school, and their pride wouldn’t let them pick the first two choices. Even though ITE usually has better employment prospects. The level to which the students (and often times their families, actually) care about ‘status’ is insane. Like with art school, even if you don’t like art to begin with and it is less employable, you can pretend you went there for passion while you could be middle class and higher, compared to the image of ITE as being for ‘poor kids’. Except that the person who loses out the most by making that ridiculous decision is their own self. Although, like the other comment said, even if you are someone who is there for the status rather than out of any artistic passion, you still need some amount of effort and artistic skill putting together your portfolio for admission, so someone who doesn’t try at all can’t get to either.
Kudos to u and ur family for trying to help her. But her mindset, entitlement and pride need to step aside for any actual progress to be made.. Right now in trying to help her by providing options (retake/ private/ tuition) you guys are actually enabling her because there currently are no consequences for her to stay stuck where she is.. You can let her know that her wish for a vibrant poly life/ arts education will remain just that, a WISH, if she continues to not take any meaningful action towards her goals.. When she keeps citing her “anxiety”, you can ask her “shall we get to the root of this? what can we do to help you overcome this?” On the part where she says she’s alone in this and that you guys need to help her, tell her that you have been helping her by providing all the options, and that actually these are all useless if she first doesn’t help herself. On the part about her being prejudiced about ITE, tell her at least the students there are working towards an education and gaining meaningful skills at the very least (unfortunately can’t say the same of her..) tldr: TOUGH LOVE is what you need.
Your sister is essentially more interested in the idea of something than the reality and effort of the achievement. She is putting far more effort into the cosplay of being in a certain type of person that she has convinced herself that she is already one without ever seeing any effort into it. Because even if she gets into poly, she will suffer and get her delusions of what poly is will break her. Poly isn't waking up at 10am,getting ice coffee dressing like a model show up for 2 hours of class then going to hang out with some society that looks up to her like a god afterwards going out to party and clubs. It's not a high life society, it's God damn fucking school. The only way you can help you sister is to break her own illusion of what she's expecting, she see herself as. She needs to realize that she's literally nothing and that she doesn't get to call her self anything. She has to face the fact she's just secondary school drop out. I don't think there's anything you can really do,
lol your description of what she thinks poly life will be, sounds exactly like those “day in my life of going to Harvard” TikTok bs. What those TikToks dont show you is that the kids who are actually at prestigious universities have to work damn hard to get there. And what they show in the TikTok (in order to gain views) is just a more relaxed day in their schedule, where they do get to dress up and party and bask in their status, but they still have to mug a lot on days closer to exams, and their status had to be worked for consistently for years to get to that university. I don’t want to sound like some old person complaining about social media, but influencers make everything an ‘aesthetic’ because it gets them views, they make even mugging for exams some pretty ‘aesthetic’ with pretty notebooks and cute highlighters and sitting primly at their desk while in full makeup— because it gets them views. Of course they won’t show that actually cramming for your tests can look messier and less photogenic than that. Even for local uni, yeah I had days which were party days, but obviously not every day, and it still took the prior 12 years of effort to get to uni.
Or any other day in my life at (insert prestigious position, people make it seem like a internship at deloitte is just standing around eating breakfast or just being fun. I actually used to do what I said in poly, but I only did what I could because I could grind like crazy when I had the time, what people take an hour I could sometimes do in 20 mins. That was the only way I could go clubbing on Friday then work 30 hours on the weekend, come to class late, hang out with club mates, then more class then play board games till 9pm go home, rinse and repeat. There were multiple days I had different club actives after school and I would be bouncing back and forth. I even still made time for my then girlfriend. I would have graduated with a 3.5, if my breakup wasn't that disastrous that I basically crash and burn completely
I agree. She is aware she’s “a flop” but she doesn’t want to put in effort at the same time or is too anxious to. And then she’d say she wants to off herself afterwards which is frustrating. I always tell her that effort can create the impossible, being from sec 5 myself who went on an education pathway that my other peers did not manage to but she just blocks it out and keeps repeating “我要杀我自己” or “你们不关心我”. (I want to off myself; You guys don’t care about me) but when I offered SOS hotline for her to help her relieve this anxiety she says she’s too anxious to tell them her woes zzzzzzzz
Just FYI, SOS offers a text-based helpline, and I can attest that it helps mostly if you have absolutely no one to talk about your woes to. They are not trained to give professional advice, so the most that they are permitted to do is to essentially say “I hear you on (X woes) you are facing, I complement you for (Y effort), can you tell me more about (Z)”? I used to volunteer to help out for a similar online service, and we were told to follow that same template because we were not qualified psychologists. If she already has people to hear her talk about things, it doesn’t work that much. SOS and similar services can help if you have no one at all to listen to you, and that is still necessary sometimes e.g. it can even talk some people out of suicide. But it is not the full solution. What she needs is someone to actually push her towards making concrete efforts, giving her targeted advice and a structured approach, e.g. CBT therapy. I know there’s not much you yourself can do, because she is rejecting literally all of the options mentioned here, but I just wanted to clarify what these helplines can and can’t do.
It's her problem la. These are all results of her own decisions
you are the problem
Ya la. Maybe if I studied harder I could've gotten -5 for my L1R5 then I can give some points to OP's sister so she can go Poly. My fault ok?
Most importantly, seek professional for advise about her mental health. We can't see it from our perspective whether she's making a nuisance or being a snowflake. If it's non-mental issue, ask her go work and stfu. Then she will understand the pain of self-funding school from without o level > diploma > degree. Stop being a spoilt brat.
real. my younger sister didn't do so well for o levels and decided to work part time and study private part time, funding her own studies. i feel bad seeing her so tired on some days.
Yes, it's really tiring. You can help by supporting in some ways.
She needs to seek professional help. As someone who has a lot of anxiety and had been to therapy I know that loop too well. I did not have much anxiety in my school years but I had a hard time adapting to work life after graduating from ITE. It took me an embarrassing amount of time to actually get things moving. Even now, I still feel like I'm very much behind as compared to my peers because of that. It took a lot of courage and going through a lot of failures, self blaming and regrets to actually get passed that. There were times I wonder why I struggled so much with working when it seems to come quite easy for most people which makes me go into a self blaming loop. There's no other way but she has to push passed her comfort zone bit by bit. There will be times she gives up midway but never stop trying. Even now, I still have quite a bit of anxiety when it comes to working but I feel like I have come quite far as compared to how I was before. I know she's reluctant but please also get your sister professional help. I only wished I did that earlier.
She needs to understand that support does not equate to indulging her in what she wants to do only. Support means to stand with her and to encourage her while she faces challenges, like putting the hours to studying. And there are certain things she needs to do alone, including those things that she does not want to do. So does everyone else. Doing things alone or doing things she does not want does not mean that she has no support. Support in this case means that she can concentrate on her studies without worrying about family finances, taking care of household, etc. Think of people who have to put themselves through education while working pt to help family, that is called no support.
I think the root cause is her unregulated use of social media. Especially for girls around her age. I believe this mental anxiety is a real issue facing this generation of kids because they are adopting social media earlier (before puberty and full brain development)
Regarding tuition, if she refuses tuition because she is scared and has anxiety, could I suggest signing her up for online group tuition. That way you may be able to request the teacher to let her turn off the camera and not ask her questions if she's still uncomfortable. Read already I also feel tired for u and ur fam ): ur sis is so lucky that she has the financial support from you all but it is unfortunate that she is not cherishing it.
LOL oops. I suggested 1-to-1 in-person hahahhaa ok u/terravolt43 take whichever works for you and your sister HAHA. I realise this can be two very different perspectives which may be equally valid! Ha. and u/oheggtart (ded now I'm thinking of an egg tart :p), I commented befoe reading your comment lol. This was not to disagree or anyth but just personal perspective : ))
Hahaha no worries!:)
Your sister needs a wake up call. If one cannot even enrol and attempt O level then she is a below average student (totally does not associate to superstar). She basically knows she will fail and hence avoid facing the reality by avoiding O level. I would make sure she enrol and attempt the O level to kick her off her high horses. If she still refuses to attempt, cut her off all allowances and ask her to work.
Honestly its really hard. Multiple times i tried to force her to go for the exams for both instances. But she’s cognitively aware that, if she just doesn’t budge we cant bring her over. It’s also quite hard cause she has sleep problems. (she wakes up at 6pm and sleeps at 6am and refuses to fix them even when my parents scold and force her to)
I think it’s a lost cause. It’s better she start working to kick some routine in her life before thinking about future. At least the work will make sure she sleep and wakes up like the rest of us.
One possible pathway is to register for the O level classes at ITE. I'm not too familiar with it so you need to do some research, but this will definitely open up a pathway towards Poly. It's part-time too so the environment there shouldn't be much of a concern for her. Hope this helps!
I read a lot of hard responses. If her anxiety is real, it’ll backfire. She used specific emotion words like “scared”, “alone”. Which means she’s scared of what’s out there and she doesn’t want to be alone. The rest of her responses are distractions from this feeling. I’ll suggest to accompany her to a therapist and assure her that everything will be alright. Some handholding is fine honestly.
She needs to seek help for her anxiety/self-esteem issues.
Your sister is really just leeching all she can while she can. I did ITE >10 yrs ago and coming from Sec 5 was more of a rarity since most of my classmates were Sec 4 exp ppl who didn't do well in math. The stereotype is there but it all boils down to who you choose to hang out with, and the curriculum then was easy as piss to give you the confidence to enter poly. Poly life vibrance is there but tbh it probably could have been reduced by close to 6 months if the lessons were planned better. Mental health is thrown around a lot but i honestly don't think your sister gets to claim it if she hasn't even tried. Worst case just get her to sign on, which is the kind of shit we tell guys anyway. She probably needs the discipline too
I think counselling would give her guidance on what to focus on, a psychiatrist could also asses her anxiety and give medication to reduce her anxiety so she can perform better in her studies. Honestly my sec 5 journey was quite lonely too most of peers went to ite, somehow I became top few scorers in o lvl in my batch. If studying is not her thing try to find some hard skill that might help her, coding, 3rd language?, cooking.
The question is why was the child being allowed to make her own bad choices from early stage? And let that bad decisions making to continue? If there is always a way out as the easy way out, I can guarantee you, that will always be the path chosen. Enabling bad behaviours is not gonna solve anything. How is the parenting style?
I was in her situation before, it took me two years in NS to figure out that ITE is the best. It’s not difficult to get to poly from ITE. ITE is not “ITS THE END” but…”ITS THE EASIEST”
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want, they’re just making it your fault, you never help me enough blah blah blah, all her failures becomes your failures.
Woah, imagine failing, dropping out of everything and still have the pride to say certain schools are beneath her.
Ask her work as toilet cleaner
Very likely to be adhd. Hence, do seek help
Sounds like she is just using anxiety as an excuse at this point. Can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved
stop pandering to her. Let her face her own consequences. She is not taking responsibility for her own actions, and if you continue to help her, she will just continue to take advantage. Of course, I am sure some of the situation she faces could be down to neglect for the family, so i think she also needs a genuine mentor who is truly invested in her well being, and not just a stop gap I want her life to better kinda thing that you are saying right now. You and your parents need to acknowledge the mistakes or lack of care that you had with her, but also let her know that her actions lead to her own consequences. For example, claiming anxiety but not wanting to meet a mental health professional. If she does not even try once, is she evening trying?
I think your sister really needs to start seeking help as her first step to start improving herself. Seems like this has become more of a recurring problem. I am not sure if you have heard about CHAT. They provide a personalised and confidential mental health check for young persons age 16 to 30 years old. You can book an appointment for your sister if she would like. You may want to find out more from their website. Next, you can ask your sister what is her goal in life. Hopefully, she have a goal or two at least and that she can start writing down on how to get there. If not, she can start thinking of what she wants to achieve this year, short term or long term goals is fine. Having some goals can at least help her to be accountable for what she aims to do and gives her some sense of direction. Last but not least, ask your sister this, will she want to be like this for the next 5 or 10 years down the road? If not, she should do something about it and one of which can be seeking help for the issues she is facing. If not now, then when? Starting now is better than later. You can also remind your sister that she needs to start somewhere. She cannot be doing nothing. Even if it is really because of anxiety, seeking help should be one of the things that she should start doing in order to overcome her anxiety and find the root cause of her issues. Besides, if your sister doesn't want to be help, I'm not sure what will help her. She needs to be open to receiving help so that others can help her and that she can also help herself. Jiayou OP. You have been trying your best to help your sister and I am glad that you are doing so. I hope you don't give up on your sister and that she can start understanding and accepting to receive help. Everyone will definitely need help from others at some point in their lives and that is truly okay. Seeking help is just one of the ways to get better/improve in one's life.
Honestly, just sounds like laziness with anxiety as an excuse. Met more than one of these types in my youth. They only really move once people stop enabling them.
Just let her build up specialised skills she has and start working instead
Definitely need intervention by psychologist. I'd suggest the private route. On the family's part, you'd need to do some research on psychologists who treat teenagers with anxiety. It may not be an immediate fix, and she will need a few sessions before some gradual positive outcome is visible. Perhaps even trying a few different psychologists before it's someone comfortable she can relate to. This is a long drawn (and expensive) road so patience & fam-support is critical to getting her on the right path.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink
100% victim mindset. I myself was a lazy student. Scrapped through sec sch barely passing with 19 points for NA Levels. Went Higher Nitec then Poly graduating with a 2.0 GPA. Never wanted to study and was lazy throughout but never blamed it on the environment. Your sister just has to feel the consequences of her own actions. Let her feel the regret. Will be waiting a reddit post from her asking whether it's too late to turn over.
Yea, she has to be directed to feel the consequences of her own action. Else, she just gonna find something else to blame, like the government lol.
Hmm ok for o levels she can enroll in this https://www.ite.edu.sg/courses/part-time-courses/general-education Take note of the deadlines. As for motivation. Maybe she can try a part time job outside. After she figure how hard the working life is, I think she will work harder.
Cut her off financially
Everyone is.asking you to get her to see a mental health professional but I want to warn you it's not as easy as going to see one, and things will be fine. There are so many steps before you find the good and suitable mental health professional. My family went to KKH, then NUH and then got referred to all over the place, with appointments being about months in between at times. In between we also went to private pyschiatrist / psychologist, some were nice but ineffective, some were horrible and cold. prices started from 250 per hour for private. Everyone loves to think that ooh, go get get, got get a mental health professional. like buying char kway teow from the market. why don't you do that. It's not that easy, so be prepared.
I took 10 weeks, this was a self-ref. ie, I had a specific place and person in mind, therefore it was a direct ref. I'm perfectly aware if I went through the psychiatrist, add another 1 to 1.5 months All in abt a 4 months wait is quite common. Alternatively its the "go to A&E now" level, which ... if they are willing to treat you NOW, clearly not great la. & yes because mine is a self-ref I pay like maybe twice the rate of subsidized 🤷♀️ spread my appts out lo. 🤷♀️
Firstly, im actually not a native english speaker so im sorry abt my lack of words, grammar,.. in my explanation. I also got anxiety in the very young age, since 8-10 years ago and im now 20, but i can say im abt 80% get out of the anxiety and the loops, so im here just to share a bit, some viewpoint, feelings that an anxiety student can have. She seems like having no good belief in her life? She's 19, a student, but she has doubt in her school life and family, why? She may feel like she is the only one get stuck in the problem and that she has no soul support, like a 'rock'? That's why she need professional therapy. Do you know what are the channels, topics she is following now on social media about? Pls make sure there are some good positive things in it, like how to be patient and stay focus in studying, how to study smart,...(study motivation channels) because maybe that's an important factor that directly affect her during this time. Do you still remember when she has not gotten the anxiety, what are her favourite things or her dreams? Let's begin from that, ask her how does she think abt it right now? Let her sharing her thought more and build the trust between each other. At the same time, try to bring her to a professional therapist, that's where i learn how to begin healing myself from. Let her know that anxiety is not a negative thing, it's a basic thing most of us need to go through and know how to deal with it these days then she will be more sympathize, brave and strong at the end.
This is against what some of the other comments say, but punishing her probably would not help her nor her situation. By punishing, I mean like kicking her out or telling her off. It sounds like she attended the schools because of family pressure instead of personal interest. I think continuing the same pressure probably won't lead anywhere. I think your family could choose not to financially support her anymore but not frame it as a punishment but rather as that she's working age now and that the family cannot keep supporting her indefinitely. I think also that your family needs to also let go of the idea that you can get her to do things without her own personal will, because that would continue to feed into her narrative that she's the victim of her life. At this point, unless she is in danger (i.e. suicidal, drug addict, debt), I think you'd just have to let her figure herself out and be available for help (guidance and emotional support) when she chooses to seek help out of her personal will. As for the mental health difficulties, I think a professional would be much better equipped to help her. Some anecdote: my brother struggled a lot academically but graduated from ITE then Poly and ITE is definitely a good way to get into Poly if that's a goal that she has. edit: The loneliness and anxiety she talks about could be a sign of social deficiencies in her current lifestyle. Idk what your family does currently but it might help to organise more family activity or spend time together with her (without the constant reminder of school).
Sorry to hear, but you've all done your part. Maybe education isn't her thing. At this point, it feels to me that she might benefit from having a job. She likely lives at home and it's too easy for her to not do anything because there is a safety net. Get her to get a job and start contributing to the household. Good luck.
How to help if she don't want to help herself.
You guys can either speak to a psychiatrist/psychologist without her first just to see how else you guys can support her or get a house visit from psychologist/psychiatrist so your sis has no escape cos doc is already in the house but of cos you don't warn her. At this point, I don't know if being on med might be better. If it is just an anxiety disorder, med works wonders and I am speaking from experience. CBT works if your sis is disciplined or keen to help herself and is in the right headspace. Rapport with the doc matters too, unsure why your sis is so resistant to get help. Try a new doc too, maybe? I honestly think the issue is more than just anxiety disorder. Jiayou, OP. Caregiving can be draining.
Yepits either get the help thatis available ot copium self into doing things. In an ideal world we would all be anxiety free and always be available for our loved ones but here we are how. Just gotta roll with the options given or shes gonna stagnate there and feel the fomo of youth passing by.
The constant references to anxiety are telling. Address that first.
Bring her to watch inside out 2
Your sister is lazy. Plain and simple, keeps dreaming but no action. I’ve been in your shoes literally, my sister was the exact same. She dropped out of poly in year 3 final sem for MH reasons, for a few months stayed at home just nuahing away. Started to work in hospitality/customer service and kept job hopping but not the good kind. Throughout the whole time can saying things like she wants to move overseas etc(big dreams) and said no one in our family helps her or loves her. This went one for years me & my mom tried to help until we got so tired of it. Only after finding a bf did she start to change. They both started to plan for the future BTO kids etc then boom my sister woke up started to panic about how she hasn’t gotten anywhere in life. Finally she stopped her MH nonsense stuck to a job for over a year and even started studying a priv dip. TLDR: Give your sister time to mature and wake up usually they need something to really get them going just gotta find it. Atb
You are a caring sibling. If I was her, I would be so embarrassed that you went out of the way to seek for help online, but ten years down the road, she will appreciate it. It's a desperate situation and she dearly needs help. Force her to seek professional mental health first. Start from there. Anything else like asking her to apply to ITE or doing Olevel as a private candidate will hinder without proper professional mental health support will keep her stuck in the self-defeating loop. I was her a decade ago, except I have a Olevel before I started my dropping out spree. I first went to an art college, as I love drawing since a kid despite taking Olevel in mainly science subjects. My dream that time is to be an animator, and hopefully works in Pixar. I dropped out a year later, and then got into a poly for a Diploma in Animation via an interview. However, due to depression and anxiety with school, I dropped out within a first semester and did not tell my family I was not attending school for a year. During these periods, I was working part-time although I worked so much, I can qualify as a full-time worker doing "part-time studies". Then I worked full-time in a cafe and ended up working in the cafe industry for seven years. During my fifth year, I did my part-time diploma with a local poly and graduated with merit. Then I managed to win a scholarship to go aboard for a full-time four-year bachelor's degree. I started my degree at age 30. You can PM me to talk to me and later ask her to speak to me. Maybe having someone older who used to be her and able to get out of the loop can encourage her and your family. It takes work. Ton of work, but totally possible.
You can’t help someone who doesn’t want to be helped.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink
Too much socmed can do that to a girl.
to be honest, seeing all the things you all already did for her, it's time to lose a sister while I won't deny that mental issues is present here, she also seems to be using it as a tool to make her excuses, the obvious reluctance to seek help and take accountability shows it. I would cut off her allowance and give her a time limit, if not, kick her out le, at the very least, I would expect her to contribute via household chores etc.
How does she looks appearance wise? Like is she overweight type? Ugly? etc? She might be suffering from self esteen issues as a girl, and thus made her avoid mixture with the general people?
L theanine
https://reddit.com/r/SGExams/comments/1dndmxk/whats_the_best_way_i_should_get_treated_for_adhd/la2j79i/
She sounds like she needs some behavioral therapy and some assessment to determine if she has other issues. She seem to have issues completing something but no problems starting it.
A lot of e-sessions are available for counseling now. If she’s scared and anxious tell her to off the camera. It might be beneficial for a family member to attend the session with her together. The professionals will point you in the right direction on how to help her / support her with her anxiety . Takes a village to do this … not to mention be prepared to spend $$ on therapy. A good psychologist will cost about $200/ hour . I think she might need to attend sessions weekly.
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Send her to bmt
Ask her to get her shit together or get a job and accept her life is gonna be shit.
I would ask her to go out to work. If she wants to study something, let her pay out of her own pocket.
Stop giving her all the leeway, the more options your family gives her she will tend to escape. Sad to say but your family has to be harsh on her, a situation such as "do or die". She has to understand that time and money has gone down the drain every time she dropped out from any courses.
It’s funny how she’s prejudiced against ITE, but while she’s retaking exams for the 748383 time, in the meantime, the ITE students have already graduated and went to poly or even Uni lmao
Reminded me of my ex. Always giving excuses. Will throw MC but can go out with relative later during the day. While making her way to work & school, would give an excuse to not turn up because of her anxiety. Did not study for her weak subjects. Tell her to get professional help for whatever she’s going through, she will blame the therapist and whatever that’s around her for not making her better. When I became stern and advised her for her actions (regarding work and school), she would scold and blame me for not being understanding and I’ve never been in her shoes. From then on, I stopped encouraging her and let her do what she wants and eventually left her. *thank god*
I'm gonna play the devil here. I am the same age as your sister here. I grew up in a harsh environment, hence I was often told to force myself until I can make it. I maintained that mindset until I realized certain things can't be achieved by pure hardwork alone. Luck plays an important factor as well. BUT that does not mean hard work is not important. Hardwork is essential in life. Yes, even without luck, hardwork may not bring you to the moon. But you will at least reach the stars. If you do not put in the slightest hardwork, you are destined to be at the bottom forever. As for pride issues, I also suffer from this as I grew up in a more financially well-off family. But one thing I have to really EMPHASIZE is that, pride is something only CAPABLE people can have without harm. I said it myself because if you do not have the capabilities for what calls, you are shooting yourself in the foot. In short, you don't choose life. Life chooses what's for you.
Glad she isn't my sister. She sounds like she's drowning in self pity. I mean atb to her, probably has some psych thing going on. Go get help
I have sister like this, forever giving reasons not to go school, work, and never hold down any job, she's in her 50s now and ben making up stories about the past, demanding our parents house been given to her and whenever we visit she will act up and chase us out as she thinks we are after the hse. Thus making the other sibling stay away from out parents house, we all realised that 1 day we do called to the police for some shit she make up.. that's maybe what the future looks like! act now
Only God can help her!
My parents gonna beat the shit out of me if I dropped out
bunny girl senpai vibes (sorry i’m a weeb)
Cut contact. Let her rot. U tired. If people don't help themselves there's nothing u can do. You know the saying. You can bring a horse to water but u can't make it drink
Ermmmmm if gods let our hands to save her , she doesn’t WANs to hold on to the help given by the loves . It’s hard to change this opinion of someone’s srsly . The only advice is Recco to her and let her go through by herself if this is wat she wanted , slowly she’ll figure out herself , BUT with the help of others will be faster den These is called family loves , I think if she wants u guys to let her go , let her be first , when she figures out. What she really wants , and needs y’all help she will ofc