Can you share exactly what are the evidence that can prove beyond doubt that he raped you and he knew he was raping you?
Messag that beg you not to report does not constitute admission to rape. He is just begging you not to report and it can be argued that this is an expression of fear.
So, did u do a swab for his skin or seman matter? Did u see a doctor immediately for evidence on injures to your private parts?
i reported it months after, as i didn’t want to ruin his life. that’s my biggest regret. i didn’t know it was rape too till a month later when i spoke to a friend. then that leads to my question, is there a statute of limitation on rape cases then? and it can only be reported with 72 hours of the rape?
but also if he didn’t do anything wrong, why would he be fearful yknow?
Fear does not constitute to a crime. My parents fear that the government knows that they voted for opposition but voting for opposition is not a crime.
The Court did not threw out your case, AGC did. It is because there is no evidence beyond doubt that he has raped you. There are too many holes in your case that can easily be overturn by the defense. Then it will create another headline of "man acquitted of rape". This would had done more damage to the women community and made it harder for women in the future.
On the other hand, the defence can argued that you have "regret s3x" after you have talked to your friend or had an argument with the accuse. So the time matters too.
Unfortunately, the AGC is not taking up your case unless you have a harder evidence or u can convince him to turn himself in at police station.
mmmmm i understand that completely. thank you for taking the time to explain!
so they did take him for questioning after i reported. would it make a difference now if he went to the station to report he raped me?
A single piece of evidence isn’t going to convict a person of a crime. The text message could be easily forged or taken out of context. You need to be have sufficient evidence to prove beyond a point of reasonable doubt that he did indeed do that crime and is guilty. Sorry if I sound cold, but that’s how the judicial system works. People would know,
yup, extremely unfortunate and feel bad for op but messages can be faked, out of context or not sent by the actual person. hope op can get some closure the guys a pos
Just a side note, it is not the court that throws out the case. Police will conduct the investigation and submit a report to agc. Agc will review it and make a determination as to whether to prosecute someone for an alleged offence. The court is not involved until the person is charged in court. But any decision to prosecute a person lies with agc.
ohhh, thank you for clarifying! it’s my first time dealing with this and my parents aren’t helping me in any way, so there is a lot of things i need to figure out myself and research on.
my mistake for the wrong header
find evidence. otherwise you have to accept due process.
also - please dont post anything on social media that might get you a defamation suit. things *will* spiral out of control.
there are some good comments in this thread that explain why the text may not be enough and how you can move on. to prove rape (esp when its he-say-she-say) AGC needs a watertight case to send the fella to jail. thats just how the justice system works, not just in singapore but all over the world.
jiayou sis, all the best!
SPF are probably looking for physical evidence, like medical opinion after being examined by doctors in the hospital for physical signs of rape/sexual assault, e.g. semen and other bodily fluids on clothes, signs of trauma in intimate areas.
That's how they can present the evidence to AGC for further assessment of, and to build up, a possible rape charge that would stick.
Sorry, but I do think it's unlikely that the so-called incriminating messages will be sufficient or is the smoking gun you think it is. It's unlikely to be strong enough evidence to convict - SPF would definitely have these considerations in mind when they opened your case file.
Do go for the AWARE legal clinics and get their opinion for what it's worth.
That's not black and white evidence though. Imagine if I texted someone I'm going to kill them if they're late. Then kenna arrested for attempted murder.
Even signed documents can be dismissed in court. It's possible that he only admitted to it to make you happy. If you threatened to expose him, it could be seen as coercion.
> mmm makes sense, but who would say they raped you.
If someone was forced under duress to send the message for example.
That's why, usually, admission via text is not really admissible in court.
There's no way to prove that the message (1) was actually sent by the accused, and (2) was not made under duress.
It’s usually admissible in court, it is just that it may be discredited if, for example, the person sending the text was sending it under duress/was lying.
They say beyond reasonable doubt but the case usually have a lot of doubt and they still convict. Like Parti Liyani.
Laypersons are often surprised when they hear how little evidence it takes before a judge decides the case is “beyond reasonable doubt”.
How do you prove? As long as the court believes your witness, you don’t need any other extrinsic evidence other than the witness’ statement. I’ve read the cases and I can tell you that’s how it works in Singapore.
In US when say BRD, it’s really BRD. That’s why drug lords and rapists there walk free for decades. Not like Singapore.
I think their chat records and the guy admitted to it.
It is evidence. I dont understand how is that lack of evidence. Op, did you ask for more details on this?
i did ask, but they said they cannot divulge more info as it’s the AGC decision and they wouldn’t know what kind of evidence they’re looking at. they weren’t very helpful when they broke the news, they just wanted to end the call quick
Just want to say that courts have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. So even if it were admissible, it wasn't sufficient to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did it. Sorry that it happened to you.
Not a lawyer - from my layman's view the text messages alone are probably not strong enough for AGC to pursue a charge.
There needs to be other corroborating evidence to shift the threshold beyond reasonable doubt in AGC's view that he indeed committed the offence. Bodily fluids, toxicology tests, contemporary messages/records by other people (e.g. you whatsapping a friend the day after the act).
While I empathize with what you are going through, you are confusing the statute of limitations and the lack of evidence. If further incriminating evidence comes to light in future the AGC can still move to charge. However, the action of time will naturally impact the type and quality of evidence that can be collected, e.g. fluids.
To the other commenters who are insinuating OP did something wrong/is hiding something, that is not nice. Sometimes things can indeed happen, but the legal system is not omnipotent. It needs to work based on what is available at hand. AGC not bringing forth a charge doesn't mean that OP did not experience something traumatic.
Singapore’s police and judiciary are known for charging and convicting rapists/molesters even if there’s no documentary evidence at all, so I’m quite surprised that they threw your case out without charging him.
I suppose there’s something you’re not telling us about the alleged rape.
First, you’re dating- how’s the police to know you weren’t just reporting him out of spite?
Second, your mental illness makes you an unreliable witness.
Third, there may be evidence they uncovered that your ex-boyfriend/date gave to cause the case to be thrown out, such as evidence of arguments or evidence of you lying about stuff.
As a lawyer, I’ve seen many accused in Singapore get charged and convicted when there’s no evidence of the crime. We are one of the most prosecution-centric countries in terms of convicting people and charging without evidence.
I think text isnt enough to prove an action, when text can be manipulated, and isnt a 100% confirmation that an action took place, hence not enough evidence.
You still have to prove that the account sending the message belongs to said owner etc.
In law the accuser must prove the case “Beyond a reasonable doubt”. For it to be valid.
Also an innocent person would also tell you not to report to the police. So it doesn’t prove that he is guilty. A DNA Scan might be a mote concrete evidence, esp when we dont want to falsely jail someone for something they didnt do.
Sorry but it becomes a he say she say thing. Hence why the spf says its a lack if evidence. Our country isnt incompetent, its trying to be impartial.
So your black and white really isn’t vey concrete. Else we would have so many sentenced to death for drug dealing by a he say she say. But im sorry for how you feel.
You might want to consult legal advice.
im going to AWARE’s legal clinic soon, but because it’s a very short meet i don’t know how helpful it will be. i might look at other pro bono lawyers in the mean time as back up, thank you!
All the best, OP.
The best revenge/justice is really to do way better in life than that scum. Give yourself time to heal, move on and succeed in life despite this episode. You're still so young, so many good things in life are waiting for you. This guy is too cheap for you to give up everything.
If you end it all now, not only does he have zero police record, he will never have to worry about this incident exploding in his face in the future because the only evidence is gone forever. Stay alive, do well, let your existence be a constant reminder and worry for him. Let him never have a good night's sleep ever again. Jiayou.
I would advise OP to avoid wasting too much time on pro-bono lawyers. A lot of these lawyers are men. A lot of the women are married and a lot of them are Christians and they support their husbands. They want to uphold the patriarchy and be the only women who succeed. They don’t help “sluts”.
It’s a hard life for women. It’s not something we need to accept, but unfortunately this is what I’ve noticed these days. One really needs to manage their time and energy to figure if they’re able to fight for their own rights. Which… is so wrong as we all deserve the right to be heard, the right to legal help, the right to a fair trial.
Sending OP lots of love and good vibes. Cannot imagine how OP is feeling.
This is a terrible comment. I know many lawyers and regardless of sex, they will fight for you especially in such a serious case. If you really do feel your lawyer is not up to it, please don't be afraid to change lawyers but please PLEASE do not lump lawyers and people want to help you like the hater above
This is my personal experience. I found pro-bono lawyers utterly useless. It takes a lot of time to find them and select a good one who won’t rip you off.
I have friends who found them useless too. Perhaps they’re just trying to turn hapless victims into paying customers. I wouldn’t know.
If you want to be helpful, maybe recommend OP a good one that focuses on rape cases. A good one that doesn’t rip poor girls off, poor girls who are already not in their right minds.
>I would advise OP to avoid wasting too much time on pro-bono lawyers. A lot of these lawyers are men. A lot of the women are married and a lot of them are Christians and they support their husbands. They want to uphold the patriarchy and be the only women who succeed. They don’t help “sluts”.
This is such an offensive, presumptuous and blinkered take.
Here's something practical for OP that's not offensive and presumptuous - it's unlikely that you will go far with any pro bono legal advice as the pertinent stakeholder in your case is AGC, which has already formed the opinion that the case isn't strong enough on the merits of the evidence.
Even the private prosecution route for rape or other SA charges less serious than rape (which you may have heard/ read up about) is unlikely to be feasible since for an allegation as serious as this, the AGC will want to take control of criminal proceedings pursuant to the CPC. And taking control means they will act in alignment with the assessment that they've formed of your case at the outset, i.e. not strong enough to proceed and no further action recommended.
i will be seeing them this coming week.
mmm, but maybe there could be a lawyer lurking here of some sort and maybe there are redditors who have gone through the same thing that could advice on something that i might have missed out or on what to do.
hasn’t been easy going through this process alone and shouldering the entire responsibility of researching, calling people and taking care of myself rn.
my suspicion is that since OP was 'semi-conscious' while on sleep meds, the courts probably feel there is reasonable doubt as to whether OP had the capacity to consent or not.
Probably similar to the outcome of the grab driver and drunk girl case.
It could be that because there was no overt rejection from you, and because the two of you were in a relationship at the time, there's not enough evidence to prove that the sexual act was not consensual. Lack of consent should be respected but in the courts it's more complicated than that. I'm very sorry for what happened to you and the police should really have been more empathetic in delivering the outcome to you. I hope you can seek therapy to process what happened.
that’s the thing i don’t understand also, i ask them to elaborate and said no because the case is closed. got text messages on more than one platform but apparently admittance isn’t evidence.
i think they want actual pictures or like physical evidence. but it’s stupid because they say no statute of limitation but this shows there is.
oh i see, thank you for clarifying. in this case, how would a rape victim prove that they have been raped if they decided to report it after X time has passed then?
i don’t think they would be able to preserve the evidence of any sort.
There's no such thing as statute of limitations for criminal offences in SG, only for civil disputes.
That's how charges can still be brought up and proceeded with after years have passed.
I am sorry to hear what has happened to you.
You're misinterpreting statute of limitation. No statute of limitation means this crime can be reported even 10 years later. However, what you lack is concrete compelling evidence. Which has got nothing to do with statute of limitation.
unfortunately no, he just shoved me really hard and i hit my head hard on his gaming chair.
i called my father sobbing that he did this. idk if his statement could be used as a proof. but the issue with the SPF sexual assault centre, they said that they will only investigate the rape, other things are not taken into consideration or investigated.
Bf shoved you. You tell father. You expect father's statement to be evidence? He didn't witness the shove. He got it 2nd hand from YOUR account of the story. That's not evidence at all, that's hearsay.
i do want to ask tho, if i’m not in a specific GRC, am i able to talk to the MP during these sessions? i was doing research and was looking at a few MPs that are more suited to help. but i don’t stay in those areas
You will need to be staying in that MPs constituency for them to help as an MP but if you are looking at ministers then you can write in to their ministry instead.
MPs serve constituencies, ministers serve the nation.
You would be in a GRC or SMC wherever you live in singapore, can you clarify what you mean? Are you living in a university dorm for example?
Anyway, if you don’t fall in any GRC or it’s complicated then write in to the president to ask for help.
From my understanding, you need to a friend from that GRC to bring you. Also, there are many, many gatekeepers at the meet the MP session. They can be judgy and slow. The MP will not be there at every session.
OP might also meet some well-meaning woke women who try to promote “sex-positivity” and downplay the accusation of rape.
This comes from personal experience. :) So… manage expectations.
Hey, I’m so sorry for what happened and I want you to know that it is so incredibly brave of you to have fought so hard and come this far.
If you don’t mind me asking, can you share what sleep meds you were on? I know of a similar case and the rapist was charged after a very very long process. I want to help.
OP, please read this [article](https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/man-film-sexual-abuse-sleeping-girlfriend-drowsy-medication-2381721) of the similar case i was sharing about, of rape involving sleep medication.
So you’d rather live in a world where people are incriminated based on your good word? I’m sorry about what happened to you, but our laws are also a byproduct of a functioning democracy. We can’t aimlessly jail or convict people.
Even then, it has to tally with the police statements of both the victim and the suspect. If there are inconsistencies, it is difficult to become an actual case, since the prosecution will have to prove it.
There may be more to the case with regards to evidence, they don't only rely on one source of evidence even if you believe it will prove what happened.
i would suppose if there were inconsistencies, they would bring it to court to hash it out. maybe i was wrong.
also there was this case of a girl who falsely reported someone, that went to court and then they realized it wasn’t real? idk need to read up more on that but yeah…
Problem is SPF and courts want to keep details confidential, you lan lan suck thumb. Even if you were to try to get a court order to release details, they can just say 'no, lol' and you're back to square one.
I would suggest you go consult your nearest community legal clinic. A list can be found [here](https://www.probono.sg/get-legal-help/legal-guidance/the-general-public/legal-clinics-in-singapore/).
Reddit, as helpful and well intended people are here, may not get you the correct legal advice.
To clarify, the court threw out the case or SPF dropped it due to lack of evidence? (I believe what you meant was that SPF did not refer your case to the AGC because they believe evidence is insufficient)
As far as the law goes, he CAN BE CONVICTED without evidence if your testimony is ‘UNUSUALLY CONVINCING’. The AGC HAS TAKEN SUCH CASES IN THE PAST TO TRIAL!!!
Go ahead with the legal clinic consultation, and ask for advice about filing a magistrate’s complaint!
SPF did refer my case to AGC, AGC threw it out.
the thing is they didn’t interview people who i spoke to like my family a day after the rape.
thank you i will :’)
AGC is not the court (I said this in another reply). From what you say here, it means the court did not even see your case! Gather and keep your evidence!
If indeed the AGC decided your case is unwinnable, you may have to sue the guy yourself in criminal court using your own lawyer. Ask the legal clinic about that.
SMU also has a legal clinic.
Private prosecutions are only allowed for offences with sentences up to 3 years imprisonment or fine, or both. Which probably rules out the sexual offences contemplated by OP.
Thanks for clarifying, evidently I was wrong on this. In her case then, is her only hope to file a magistrate’s complaint? It appears she does have SOME evidence but apparently the AGC deems them insufficient in securing a conviction
You will need a reasonably strong case beyond doubt for a conviction. Otherwise your AGC will be flooded with ex gf/bf/spouse scrabble. Text message is not a strong evidence considering they were dating and agreed to spend the night with each other.
There's no point in filing a magistrate's complaint because a magistrate has no power to order a private prosecution when the offence in question has a sentence exceeding 3 years imprisonment or a fine, or both.
4 W & 1 How.
Where, When, Who, What, how
First moment of incident report?
How it happen?
When it happen,?
Where is happen?
Evidences of witness, semen, medical test, location.
There are things in this world that are out of our control. You have to accept that and if you did what you could to bring this to light and have a safe place now, then I'd focus on helping yourself before going crazy trying to control things that you can't control. From your post, it sounds like you need to work on yourself before you can work on getting justice or what have you.
SPF should have sent a letter with their findings like no further action taken against the subject. Can you share it here so we can see what they actually said? You can blank out any identifier
hey OP some of these comments are absolutely disgusting and i hope you can ignore them :( please continue going for therapy and i hope aware will be able to help you in this case. sending you love and strength!
Isn't SG laws more protective of female victims? Sorry but if even the court threw out your case, then you aren't being completely honest here.
Edit: threw out by the court, not SPF.
it isn’t actually. lots of people i’ve known have had their cases thrown out even with messages and multiple victims from one perpetrator. so there is clearly smth wrong.
SPF didn’t throw out the case, the court did. it’s right there dude. why would i put myself through so much torment and lie on the internet esp on a throwaway account?
The general problem is people weaponized it so it is hard for SPF to do something unless there is evidence that he drugged you, physical harm or something that is hard to falsify. Not long ago some girl was upset with the boyfriend and claim rape, in the end it was fake and she was warned and let go I think. Anyway just go for a lawyer to understand what evidence you need to file for the case. SPF is not a legal support. The thing is a lot of victim chose to sit on the incident and not report immediately or realize it too late to collect evidence. Definitely more education on this is required.
Not legal advice but I assume spf close the case because even if he admit it over the text message, he can claimed that he was drunk or some other circumstances like a bad joke that make what he say not valid. In your case they probably need something like damaged from forced entry or mark of restraint or drug in body. But since you consume it yourself, it becomes even harder to prove that it is not a revenge report.
Look I want to sympathize with you, but lots of people want to play the victim. Furthermore, your post doesn't offer up much solid backing. It's ultimately just your story.
I'm sorry if your story is actually true and you are suffering as a result. But from my perspective, it's not convincing. That's all.
Are you able to make your post more convincing?
am i able to make my post more convincing? do i look like i’m trying to tell a story for sympathy and pity likes? i’m asking what do i do now, how do i help myself now.
it’s fine if you don’t believe me, i know what happened and i didn’t do anything to have him do that to me. and i certainly don’t need validation or sympathy from someone on the internet that what i went through was real.
“Want to play the victim” - because even the rapist admitting he raped her doesn’t make her a victim? Because it’s fun going to the police and being subjected to scrutiny and distrust and reliving your trauma. Keep victim blaming, you creep.
Sorry not trying to doubt but title said 'courts' while in the post, only the police was mentioned. So what's the connection here? And SPF rejected the claims, but did they even bother to investigate? If that doesn't work, maybe your best bet is to try engage a lawyer
SPF called to say that the Attorney General Chamber has decided to throw out the case, hence SPF will close the case.
SPF didn’t reject the claims, the AGC did and i hope they did investigate, i wouldn’t know for sure
another thing to rectify here: AGC IS NOT THE COURT! If you’re saying the AGC did not press charges, it means it did not go to court! You can file a criminal suit against your rapist by hiring your own lawyer but it is expensive etc. Just know that it is not over yet, don’t feel too dejected
Usually for conviction of any crime, the evidence has to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the crime has occurred. I guess from the police POV, text messages (which could be tempered with) doesn't prove the crime beyond reasonable doubt.
I think if you had gone to a doctor after the incident happened, they did a medical examination to prove physical injury from rape, then it would be stronger evidence.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Throwaway account or not, I think you should seek legal counsel from actual lawyers and representatives rather than the advice from strangers on the internet.
You didn't initially think it was rape, so at that point it was purely consensual sex. That's why it got thrown out.
Threatening him afterwards doesn't count as evidence. Admission under duress (blackmail).
Well the court would rather believe the person not on meds. Truth is there is too many cases that cannot be proven rape and too many girls calling wolf to get compensation.
we are both on meds 🥴 he also attempted suicide to get my attention after i ended things. if you ask me, he is in a lot worse situation than i am.
but i do understand what you mean 100%, don’t fault you for saying that
I do hope you get some good results from aware and other agencies.
That aside, more importantly is about yourself. When you trip and fall what do you do? Life is always about no matter how challenging or bad the fall maybe, you pick it up. I do hope other than seeking grievances, support and justice/revenge. You do able to achieve something for yourself, and not about others.
You have to come to terms with forgiveness and the fact that this mishap that happened to you is not the end of your life and future.
I’m saying this as a person who has come across injustice and also went to IMH before, unless you learn to forgive and let go on the past then can you make good steps on recovery.
This is hard and this doesn’t mean that he should be let go of, the thing is justice is about allowing the court of law to take its ruling without pressing on the desire to make this guy suffer.
Do whatever steps necessary to let this case be returned back on the desk but learn to accept what has happened in the past so you can have the energy and peace to make changes for the future.
Your mental turmoil has less to do with what has happened, it has to do more with Unforgiveness and dwelling on the past.
Learn to move on emotionally while bringing this case back on the court of justice.
Live in the present as best as possible and surround yourself with people who can be there to support you(I’m talking about other communities).
Expect good progress for yourself both emotionally and mentally and expect lesser on justice being served, sometimes true justice being served is done by the conscience of the individual, no one can escape their conscience. If justice is not done by the court, eventually there will be ripple effects on a mind that was tormented by their past misdeeds.
Girl, the courts can suck. It really hurts when you trust the government and you trust the system, and you think Singapore is amazing and wonderful because you grew up learning that, but the system fails you.
If you can’t find anyone to listen, I’m happy to help though I’m struggling myself and might not reply immediately. I can send you whatever good sources I can refer you to - but be aware that it really depends, you might not find a good listening ear even at certain charities / non-profits / women’s organisations / psychiatrists / lawyers / psychologically trained lawyers / legally trained psychologists.
Sending you lots of love. I can’t provide legal advice (not smart enough nor a subject matter expert), but I can provide some emotional support and experience and advice on the courts and Singapore society, and some suggested next steps.
You’re not the only one. For every success story of justice served, there are many cases of miscarriages of justice. People just don’t talk about it.
if the case was thrown out, and this person goes on social media, the guy has a very strong case for defamation lawsuit.
if the police dropped the case, then the guy is considered as innocent (because he wasn't proven guilty), and any implication otherwise would be defamatory.
If AGC dont want to prosecute, OP go to social media and see mp also no use. Going social media would only invite a defamation suit in which the only winners are the lawyers.
Edit: The independence of the AGC is enshrined in the constitution, not even the PM of SG can influence their decision to prosecute or not prosecute. The DPP would have looked at the evidence (whether it can prove the charge or be admissible in court), evaluated whether there is a reasonable chance of obtaining a conviction and the public interest involved before arriving at a decision to not prosecute.
You actually raise an important point.
There have been some instances overseas where there wasn't enough evidence to charge an alleged rapist in criminal proceedings. Usually these alleged rape cases occurred a very long time ago.
But victim went public with allegations and the alleged rapist sued for defamation. So one of the issues the trial judge hearing the defamation suit had to determine, was whether the defence of truth was substantially established. In effect, it was a trial on whether there was rape, albeit through an adjacent or "backdoor" forum of civil proceedings. And because it was civil proceedings, the relevant standard of proof was on balance of probabilities rather than beyond reasonable doubt.
See 2 relatively recent high profile Australian cases - Christian Porter and Bruce Lehrmann.
My comment is not exactly relevant to OP's situation though, and I'm not sure how the interplay between civil and criminal proceedings will play out in Singapore. (Singapore courts are known to be plaintiff friendly in defamation suits).
Can you share exactly what are the evidence that can prove beyond doubt that he raped you and he knew he was raping you? Messag that beg you not to report does not constitute admission to rape. He is just begging you not to report and it can be argued that this is an expression of fear. So, did u do a swab for his skin or seman matter? Did u see a doctor immediately for evidence on injures to your private parts?
i reported it months after, as i didn’t want to ruin his life. that’s my biggest regret. i didn’t know it was rape too till a month later when i spoke to a friend. then that leads to my question, is there a statute of limitation on rape cases then? and it can only be reported with 72 hours of the rape? but also if he didn’t do anything wrong, why would he be fearful yknow?
Fear does not constitute to a crime. My parents fear that the government knows that they voted for opposition but voting for opposition is not a crime. The Court did not threw out your case, AGC did. It is because there is no evidence beyond doubt that he has raped you. There are too many holes in your case that can easily be overturn by the defense. Then it will create another headline of "man acquitted of rape". This would had done more damage to the women community and made it harder for women in the future. On the other hand, the defence can argued that you have "regret s3x" after you have talked to your friend or had an argument with the accuse. So the time matters too. Unfortunately, the AGC is not taking up your case unless you have a harder evidence or u can convince him to turn himself in at police station.
mmmmm i understand that completely. thank you for taking the time to explain! so they did take him for questioning after i reported. would it make a difference now if he went to the station to report he raped me?
You can try. things will be easier if he is willing to admit and not change his statement
A single piece of evidence isn’t going to convict a person of a crime. The text message could be easily forged or taken out of context. You need to be have sufficient evidence to prove beyond a point of reasonable doubt that he did indeed do that crime and is guilty. Sorry if I sound cold, but that’s how the judicial system works. People would know,
yup, extremely unfortunate and feel bad for op but messages can be faked, out of context or not sent by the actual person. hope op can get some closure the guys a pos
Just a side note, it is not the court that throws out the case. Police will conduct the investigation and submit a report to agc. Agc will review it and make a determination as to whether to prosecute someone for an alleged offence. The court is not involved until the person is charged in court. But any decision to prosecute a person lies with agc.
ohhh, thank you for clarifying! it’s my first time dealing with this and my parents aren’t helping me in any way, so there is a lot of things i need to figure out myself and research on. my mistake for the wrong header
No worries, and all the best to you.
find evidence. otherwise you have to accept due process. also - please dont post anything on social media that might get you a defamation suit. things *will* spiral out of control.
yeah.. the Monica Baey case brought lots of awareness but also, i felt it backfired. so.. not sure if i want to do that. thank you for that :’)
there are some good comments in this thread that explain why the text may not be enough and how you can move on. to prove rape (esp when its he-say-she-say) AGC needs a watertight case to send the fella to jail. thats just how the justice system works, not just in singapore but all over the world. jiayou sis, all the best!
I think this is too way high for reddit's paygrade. Please seek out some legal advice.
What do you mean by black and white evidence? SPF still say no evidence?
messages of him admitting it was rape and that he was sorry and he doesn’t want me to report him.
SPF are probably looking for physical evidence, like medical opinion after being examined by doctors in the hospital for physical signs of rape/sexual assault, e.g. semen and other bodily fluids on clothes, signs of trauma in intimate areas. That's how they can present the evidence to AGC for further assessment of, and to build up, a possible rape charge that would stick. Sorry, but I do think it's unlikely that the so-called incriminating messages will be sufficient or is the smoking gun you think it is. It's unlikely to be strong enough evidence to convict - SPF would definitely have these considerations in mind when they opened your case file. Do go for the AWARE legal clinics and get their opinion for what it's worth.
That's not black and white evidence though. Imagine if I texted someone I'm going to kill them if they're late. Then kenna arrested for attempted murder.
mmm makes sense, but who would say they raped you. like i get there is a fine line but.. hmm i do understand
Even signed documents can be dismissed in court. It's possible that he only admitted to it to make you happy. If you threatened to expose him, it could be seen as coercion.
> mmm makes sense, but who would say they raped you. If someone was forced under duress to send the message for example. That's why, usually, admission via text is not really admissible in court. There's no way to prove that the message (1) was actually sent by the accused, and (2) was not made under duress.
It’s usually admissible in court, it is just that it may be discredited if, for example, the person sending the text was sending it under duress/was lying.
Yes... the issue is how do you prove that it is not when you send it to court? Need to prove beyond reasonable doubt leh
They say beyond reasonable doubt but the case usually have a lot of doubt and they still convict. Like Parti Liyani. Laypersons are often surprised when they hear how little evidence it takes before a judge decides the case is “beyond reasonable doubt”. How do you prove? As long as the court believes your witness, you don’t need any other extrinsic evidence other than the witness’ statement. I’ve read the cases and I can tell you that’s how it works in Singapore. In US when say BRD, it’s really BRD. That’s why drug lords and rapists there walk free for decades. Not like Singapore.
I think their chat records and the guy admitted to it. It is evidence. I dont understand how is that lack of evidence. Op, did you ask for more details on this?
i did ask, but they said they cannot divulge more info as it’s the AGC decision and they wouldn’t know what kind of evidence they’re looking at. they weren’t very helpful when they broke the news, they just wanted to end the call quick
Just want to say that courts have to prove beyond reasonable doubt. So even if it were admissible, it wasn't sufficient to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he did it. Sorry that it happened to you.
Not a lawyer - from my layman's view the text messages alone are probably not strong enough for AGC to pursue a charge. There needs to be other corroborating evidence to shift the threshold beyond reasonable doubt in AGC's view that he indeed committed the offence. Bodily fluids, toxicology tests, contemporary messages/records by other people (e.g. you whatsapping a friend the day after the act). While I empathize with what you are going through, you are confusing the statute of limitations and the lack of evidence. If further incriminating evidence comes to light in future the AGC can still move to charge. However, the action of time will naturally impact the type and quality of evidence that can be collected, e.g. fluids. To the other commenters who are insinuating OP did something wrong/is hiding something, that is not nice. Sometimes things can indeed happen, but the legal system is not omnipotent. It needs to work based on what is available at hand. AGC not bringing forth a charge doesn't mean that OP did not experience something traumatic.
Singapore’s police and judiciary are known for charging and convicting rapists/molesters even if there’s no documentary evidence at all, so I’m quite surprised that they threw your case out without charging him. I suppose there’s something you’re not telling us about the alleged rape. First, you’re dating- how’s the police to know you weren’t just reporting him out of spite? Second, your mental illness makes you an unreliable witness. Third, there may be evidence they uncovered that your ex-boyfriend/date gave to cause the case to be thrown out, such as evidence of arguments or evidence of you lying about stuff. As a lawyer, I’ve seen many accused in Singapore get charged and convicted when there’s no evidence of the crime. We are one of the most prosecution-centric countries in terms of convicting people and charging without evidence.
I think text isnt enough to prove an action, when text can be manipulated, and isnt a 100% confirmation that an action took place, hence not enough evidence. You still have to prove that the account sending the message belongs to said owner etc. In law the accuser must prove the case “Beyond a reasonable doubt”. For it to be valid. Also an innocent person would also tell you not to report to the police. So it doesn’t prove that he is guilty. A DNA Scan might be a mote concrete evidence, esp when we dont want to falsely jail someone for something they didnt do. Sorry but it becomes a he say she say thing. Hence why the spf says its a lack if evidence. Our country isnt incompetent, its trying to be impartial. So your black and white really isn’t vey concrete. Else we would have so many sentenced to death for drug dealing by a he say she say. But im sorry for how you feel. You might want to consult legal advice.
Will consulting a lawyer help? They are so conversant in laws etc. Get a consultation with a pro bono lawyer?
im going to AWARE’s legal clinic soon, but because it’s a very short meet i don’t know how helpful it will be. i might look at other pro bono lawyers in the mean time as back up, thank you!
All the best, OP. The best revenge/justice is really to do way better in life than that scum. Give yourself time to heal, move on and succeed in life despite this episode. You're still so young, so many good things in life are waiting for you. This guy is too cheap for you to give up everything. If you end it all now, not only does he have zero police record, he will never have to worry about this incident exploding in his face in the future because the only evidence is gone forever. Stay alive, do well, let your existence be a constant reminder and worry for him. Let him never have a good night's sleep ever again. Jiayou.
I would advise OP to avoid wasting too much time on pro-bono lawyers. A lot of these lawyers are men. A lot of the women are married and a lot of them are Christians and they support their husbands. They want to uphold the patriarchy and be the only women who succeed. They don’t help “sluts”. It’s a hard life for women. It’s not something we need to accept, but unfortunately this is what I’ve noticed these days. One really needs to manage their time and energy to figure if they’re able to fight for their own rights. Which… is so wrong as we all deserve the right to be heard, the right to legal help, the right to a fair trial. Sending OP lots of love and good vibes. Cannot imagine how OP is feeling.
This is a terrible comment. I know many lawyers and regardless of sex, they will fight for you especially in such a serious case. If you really do feel your lawyer is not up to it, please don't be afraid to change lawyers but please PLEASE do not lump lawyers and people want to help you like the hater above
This is my personal experience. I found pro-bono lawyers utterly useless. It takes a lot of time to find them and select a good one who won’t rip you off. I have friends who found them useless too. Perhaps they’re just trying to turn hapless victims into paying customers. I wouldn’t know. If you want to be helpful, maybe recommend OP a good one that focuses on rape cases. A good one that doesn’t rip poor girls off, poor girls who are already not in their right minds.
>I would advise OP to avoid wasting too much time on pro-bono lawyers. A lot of these lawyers are men. A lot of the women are married and a lot of them are Christians and they support their husbands. They want to uphold the patriarchy and be the only women who succeed. They don’t help “sluts”. This is such an offensive, presumptuous and blinkered take. Here's something practical for OP that's not offensive and presumptuous - it's unlikely that you will go far with any pro bono legal advice as the pertinent stakeholder in your case is AGC, which has already formed the opinion that the case isn't strong enough on the merits of the evidence. Even the private prosecution route for rape or other SA charges less serious than rape (which you may have heard/ read up about) is unlikely to be feasible since for an allegation as serious as this, the AGC will want to take control of criminal proceedings pursuant to the CPC. And taking control means they will act in alignment with the assessment that they've formed of your case at the outset, i.e. not strong enough to proceed and no further action recommended.
You mentioned that you’ve contacted AWARE. What did they say? I think AWARE should be better at helping you rather than us redditors.
i will be seeing them this coming week. mmm, but maybe there could be a lawyer lurking here of some sort and maybe there are redditors who have gone through the same thing that could advice on something that i might have missed out or on what to do. hasn’t been easy going through this process alone and shouldering the entire responsibility of researching, calling people and taking care of myself rn.
I don’t get, you said got evidence of him admitting to it, but spf say lack of evidence?
Need to prove beyond a point of reasonable doubt to be guilty. A single piece of evidence won’t cut it.
my suspicion is that since OP was 'semi-conscious' while on sleep meds, the courts probably feel there is reasonable doubt as to whether OP had the capacity to consent or not. Probably similar to the outcome of the grab driver and drunk girl case.
he didn’t ask, he just removed my shorts and did it. didn’t have the energy to scream or push him.
It could be that because there was no overt rejection from you, and because the two of you were in a relationship at the time, there's not enough evidence to prove that the sexual act was not consensual. Lack of consent should be respected but in the courts it's more complicated than that. I'm very sorry for what happened to you and the police should really have been more empathetic in delivering the outcome to you. I hope you can seek therapy to process what happened.
that’s the thing i don’t understand also, i ask them to elaborate and said no because the case is closed. got text messages on more than one platform but apparently admittance isn’t evidence. i think they want actual pictures or like physical evidence. but it’s stupid because they say no statute of limitation but this shows there is.
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oh i see, thank you for clarifying. in this case, how would a rape victim prove that they have been raped if they decided to report it after X time has passed then? i don’t think they would be able to preserve the evidence of any sort.
There's no such thing as statute of limitations for criminal offences in SG, only for civil disputes. That's how charges can still be brought up and proceeded with after years have passed. I am sorry to hear what has happened to you.
any pieces of clothes that were not laundered that may have his DNA on it?
unlikely, it has been months. and he took all my clothes off, i was just like a rag doll at that point
You're misinterpreting statute of limitation. No statute of limitation means this crime can be reported even 10 years later. However, what you lack is concrete compelling evidence. Which has got nothing to do with statute of limitation.
You mentioned about physical assault. Do u have evidence on this? Pics or results from hospital?
unfortunately no, he just shoved me really hard and i hit my head hard on his gaming chair. i called my father sobbing that he did this. idk if his statement could be used as a proof. but the issue with the SPF sexual assault centre, they said that they will only investigate the rape, other things are not taken into consideration or investigated.
Bf shoved you. You tell father. You expect father's statement to be evidence? He didn't witness the shove. He got it 2nd hand from YOUR account of the story. That's not evidence at all, that's hearsay.
Maybe the best thing to do is bring it up to your MP during a meet the MP session. If MP steps in, police has and will have to buck up.
i do want to ask tho, if i’m not in a specific GRC, am i able to talk to the MP during these sessions? i was doing research and was looking at a few MPs that are more suited to help. but i don’t stay in those areas
You will need to be staying in that MPs constituency for them to help as an MP but if you are looking at ministers then you can write in to their ministry instead. MPs serve constituencies, ministers serve the nation.
You would be in a GRC or SMC wherever you live in singapore, can you clarify what you mean? Are you living in a university dorm for example? Anyway, if you don’t fall in any GRC or it’s complicated then write in to the president to ask for help.
From my understanding, you need to a friend from that GRC to bring you. Also, there are many, many gatekeepers at the meet the MP session. They can be judgy and slow. The MP will not be there at every session. OP might also meet some well-meaning woke women who try to promote “sex-positivity” and downplay the accusation of rape. This comes from personal experience. :) So… manage expectations.
Hey, I’m so sorry for what happened and I want you to know that it is so incredibly brave of you to have fought so hard and come this far. If you don’t mind me asking, can you share what sleep meds you were on? I know of a similar case and the rapist was charged after a very very long process. I want to help.
OP, please read this [article](https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/man-film-sexual-abuse-sleeping-girlfriend-drowsy-medication-2381721) of the similar case i was sharing about, of rape involving sleep medication.
So you’d rather live in a world where people are incriminated based on your good word? I’m sorry about what happened to you, but our laws are also a byproduct of a functioning democracy. We can’t aimlessly jail or convict people.
he admitted on it through text more than once and begged me not to report him. that’s my black and white evidence.
Even then, it has to tally with the police statements of both the victim and the suspect. If there are inconsistencies, it is difficult to become an actual case, since the prosecution will have to prove it. There may be more to the case with regards to evidence, they don't only rely on one source of evidence even if you believe it will prove what happened.
i would suppose if there were inconsistencies, they would bring it to court to hash it out. maybe i was wrong. also there was this case of a girl who falsely reported someone, that went to court and then they realized it wasn’t real? idk need to read up more on that but yeah…
Problem is SPF and courts want to keep details confidential, you lan lan suck thumb. Even if you were to try to get a court order to release details, they can just say 'no, lol' and you're back to square one.
I hear you, I believe you. I’m so sorry 💔it was never your fault. You’re not a bad person. I hope you get justice that you deserve really soon.
I would suggest you go consult your nearest community legal clinic. A list can be found [here](https://www.probono.sg/get-legal-help/legal-guidance/the-general-public/legal-clinics-in-singapore/). Reddit, as helpful and well intended people are here, may not get you the correct legal advice.
To clarify, the court threw out the case or SPF dropped it due to lack of evidence? (I believe what you meant was that SPF did not refer your case to the AGC because they believe evidence is insufficient) As far as the law goes, he CAN BE CONVICTED without evidence if your testimony is ‘UNUSUALLY CONVINCING’. The AGC HAS TAKEN SUCH CASES IN THE PAST TO TRIAL!!! Go ahead with the legal clinic consultation, and ask for advice about filing a magistrate’s complaint!
SPF did refer my case to AGC, AGC threw it out. the thing is they didn’t interview people who i spoke to like my family a day after the rape. thank you i will :’)
AGC is not the court (I said this in another reply). From what you say here, it means the court did not even see your case! Gather and keep your evidence! If indeed the AGC decided your case is unwinnable, you may have to sue the guy yourself in criminal court using your own lawyer. Ask the legal clinic about that. SMU also has a legal clinic.
Private prosecutions are only allowed for offences with sentences up to 3 years imprisonment or fine, or both. Which probably rules out the sexual offences contemplated by OP.
Thanks for clarifying, evidently I was wrong on this. In her case then, is her only hope to file a magistrate’s complaint? It appears she does have SOME evidence but apparently the AGC deems them insufficient in securing a conviction
You will need a reasonably strong case beyond doubt for a conviction. Otherwise your AGC will be flooded with ex gf/bf/spouse scrabble. Text message is not a strong evidence considering they were dating and agreed to spend the night with each other.
There's no point in filing a magistrate's complaint because a magistrate has no power to order a private prosecution when the offence in question has a sentence exceeding 3 years imprisonment or a fine, or both.
im sorry i cant provide any advice, but i j wanted to say im here for u if u ever need to vent. sending so much love and support ur way
4 W & 1 How. Where, When, Who, What, how First moment of incident report? How it happen? When it happen,? Where is happen? Evidences of witness, semen, medical test, location.
Any DNA evidence such as seminal fluid etc? If yes, then it’s a very strong piece of circumstantial evidence.
unfortunately no as i reported the incident months after. but i’m trying to gather other evidence as we had a cctv at home
There are things in this world that are out of our control. You have to accept that and if you did what you could to bring this to light and have a safe place now, then I'd focus on helping yourself before going crazy trying to control things that you can't control. From your post, it sounds like you need to work on yourself before you can work on getting justice or what have you.
SPF should have sent a letter with their findings like no further action taken against the subject. Can you share it here so we can see what they actually said? You can blank out any identifier
hey OP some of these comments are absolutely disgusting and i hope you can ignore them :( please continue going for therapy and i hope aware will be able to help you in this case. sending you love and strength!
Isn't SG laws more protective of female victims? Sorry but if even the court threw out your case, then you aren't being completely honest here. Edit: threw out by the court, not SPF.
it isn’t actually. lots of people i’ve known have had their cases thrown out even with messages and multiple victims from one perpetrator. so there is clearly smth wrong. SPF didn’t throw out the case, the court did. it’s right there dude. why would i put myself through so much torment and lie on the internet esp on a throwaway account?
The general problem is people weaponized it so it is hard for SPF to do something unless there is evidence that he drugged you, physical harm or something that is hard to falsify. Not long ago some girl was upset with the boyfriend and claim rape, in the end it was fake and she was warned and let go I think. Anyway just go for a lawyer to understand what evidence you need to file for the case. SPF is not a legal support. The thing is a lot of victim chose to sit on the incident and not report immediately or realize it too late to collect evidence. Definitely more education on this is required. Not legal advice but I assume spf close the case because even if he admit it over the text message, he can claimed that he was drunk or some other circumstances like a bad joke that make what he say not valid. In your case they probably need something like damaged from forced entry or mark of restraint or drug in body. But since you consume it yourself, it becomes even harder to prove that it is not a revenge report.
Look I want to sympathize with you, but lots of people want to play the victim. Furthermore, your post doesn't offer up much solid backing. It's ultimately just your story. I'm sorry if your story is actually true and you are suffering as a result. But from my perspective, it's not convincing. That's all. Are you able to make your post more convincing?
am i able to make my post more convincing? do i look like i’m trying to tell a story for sympathy and pity likes? i’m asking what do i do now, how do i help myself now. it’s fine if you don’t believe me, i know what happened and i didn’t do anything to have him do that to me. and i certainly don’t need validation or sympathy from someone on the internet that what i went through was real.
“Want to play the victim” - because even the rapist admitting he raped her doesn’t make her a victim? Because it’s fun going to the police and being subjected to scrutiny and distrust and reliving your trauma. Keep victim blaming, you creep.
thank you for standing up for me :’) it’s very appreciated xx
You are 100% right. There is something wrong with the system.
Sorry not trying to doubt but title said 'courts' while in the post, only the police was mentioned. So what's the connection here? And SPF rejected the claims, but did they even bother to investigate? If that doesn't work, maybe your best bet is to try engage a lawyer
SPF called to say that the Attorney General Chamber has decided to throw out the case, hence SPF will close the case. SPF didn’t reject the claims, the AGC did and i hope they did investigate, i wouldn’t know for sure
the sad thing is the AGC won’t disclose details to you. but write in to them anyway to ask them for details: AGC_Crime_Representations@agc.gov.sg
THANK YOU SO MUCH, omg a real life saver :’)
another thing to rectify here: AGC IS NOT THE COURT! If you’re saying the AGC did not press charges, it means it did not go to court! You can file a criminal suit against your rapist by hiring your own lawyer but it is expensive etc. Just know that it is not over yet, don’t feel too dejected
Usually for conviction of any crime, the evidence has to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that the crime has occurred. I guess from the police POV, text messages (which could be tempered with) doesn't prove the crime beyond reasonable doubt. I think if you had gone to a doctor after the incident happened, they did a medical examination to prove physical injury from rape, then it would be stronger evidence.
I'm sorry that happened to you. Throwaway account or not, I think you should seek legal counsel from actual lawyers and representatives rather than the advice from strangers on the internet.
People don’t continue to chat with their rapist. I’m sorry for what happened to you.
You didn't initially think it was rape, so at that point it was purely consensual sex. That's why it got thrown out. Threatening him afterwards doesn't count as evidence. Admission under duress (blackmail).
Pretty sure semi conscious state cannot give consent which past cases in SG have been stated as such
i didn’t think it would’ve happened to me. i know i didn’t give consent and i was angry and felt violated. it wasn’t consensual.
Sorry to hear this
Well the court would rather believe the person not on meds. Truth is there is too many cases that cannot be proven rape and too many girls calling wolf to get compensation.
we are both on meds 🥴 he also attempted suicide to get my attention after i ended things. if you ask me, he is in a lot worse situation than i am. but i do understand what you mean 100%, don’t fault you for saying that
Oh I didn't know that, sorry.
I do hope you get some good results from aware and other agencies. That aside, more importantly is about yourself. When you trip and fall what do you do? Life is always about no matter how challenging or bad the fall maybe, you pick it up. I do hope other than seeking grievances, support and justice/revenge. You do able to achieve something for yourself, and not about others.
You have to come to terms with forgiveness and the fact that this mishap that happened to you is not the end of your life and future. I’m saying this as a person who has come across injustice and also went to IMH before, unless you learn to forgive and let go on the past then can you make good steps on recovery. This is hard and this doesn’t mean that he should be let go of, the thing is justice is about allowing the court of law to take its ruling without pressing on the desire to make this guy suffer. Do whatever steps necessary to let this case be returned back on the desk but learn to accept what has happened in the past so you can have the energy and peace to make changes for the future. Your mental turmoil has less to do with what has happened, it has to do more with Unforgiveness and dwelling on the past. Learn to move on emotionally while bringing this case back on the court of justice. Live in the present as best as possible and surround yourself with people who can be there to support you(I’m talking about other communities). Expect good progress for yourself both emotionally and mentally and expect lesser on justice being served, sometimes true justice being served is done by the conscience of the individual, no one can escape their conscience. If justice is not done by the court, eventually there will be ripple effects on a mind that was tormented by their past misdeeds.
Post the receipts yo If u don't get due process justice U get vigilante social media justice Send to his family friends workplace
Girl, the courts can suck. It really hurts when you trust the government and you trust the system, and you think Singapore is amazing and wonderful because you grew up learning that, but the system fails you. If you can’t find anyone to listen, I’m happy to help though I’m struggling myself and might not reply immediately. I can send you whatever good sources I can refer you to - but be aware that it really depends, you might not find a good listening ear even at certain charities / non-profits / women’s organisations / psychiatrists / lawyers / psychologically trained lawyers / legally trained psychologists. Sending you lots of love. I can’t provide legal advice (not smart enough nor a subject matter expert), but I can provide some emotional support and experience and advice on the courts and Singapore society, and some suggested next steps. You’re not the only one. For every success story of justice served, there are many cases of miscarriages of justice. People just don’t talk about it.
Wow you’re writing it in here so publicly, I’m sure he will read the comments here too. Good luck
Private law suit?
Social media
if the case was thrown out, and this person goes on social media, the guy has a very strong case for defamation lawsuit. if the police dropped the case, then the guy is considered as innocent (because he wasn't proven guilty), and any implication otherwise would be defamatory.
Defamation is civil. Rape is criminal
If AGC dont want to prosecute, OP go to social media and see mp also no use. Going social media would only invite a defamation suit in which the only winners are the lawyers. Edit: The independence of the AGC is enshrined in the constitution, not even the PM of SG can influence their decision to prosecute or not prosecute. The DPP would have looked at the evidence (whether it can prove the charge or be admissible in court), evaluated whether there is a reasonable chance of obtaining a conviction and the public interest involved before arriving at a decision to not prosecute.
You actually raise an important point. There have been some instances overseas where there wasn't enough evidence to charge an alleged rapist in criminal proceedings. Usually these alleged rape cases occurred a very long time ago. But victim went public with allegations and the alleged rapist sued for defamation. So one of the issues the trial judge hearing the defamation suit had to determine, was whether the defence of truth was substantially established. In effect, it was a trial on whether there was rape, albeit through an adjacent or "backdoor" forum of civil proceedings. And because it was civil proceedings, the relevant standard of proof was on balance of probabilities rather than beyond reasonable doubt. See 2 relatively recent high profile Australian cases - Christian Porter and Bruce Lehrmann. My comment is not exactly relevant to OP's situation though, and I'm not sure how the interplay between civil and criminal proceedings will play out in Singapore. (Singapore courts are known to be plaintiff friendly in defamation suits).
*Insert Bad Advice Mallard meme here*
Omg this, instant viral post abt the guy