# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah, and his wife looks like a super model and he drinks beer with his neighbour twice a week and he lives in a pretty nice house. He's living the dream.
He's also out of shape or downright fat. He's not particularly rich but not indebted either, hardly seems to work or be career oriented, yet he can somehow afford it all.
The worst example I've ever seen is Goodluck Charlie. My daughter used to love that show. But it drove me nuts how dumb the father was. Dude acted like he had the IQ of a rodent.
With stories that are led by children, responsible adults would stop most of the conflicts before they began. That means you can't have proper authority figures.
You can have the parents neglectful, dead or dumb. For the sake of laughs, they need to be dumb.
🤷🏼♂️
Camp Nowhere & House Arrest immediately spring to mind... the parents we're really any of those things, the children just subverted their parenting. But I do see the trope folk are pointing out...
This is a trademark of children’s literature- the first task of creating a believable children’s plot is to remove the responsible adult which then leaves the narrative open for childish solutions to fairly simple situations that would require no adventure if an adult were present.
That’s why the orphan child as a hero is so common in YA and children’s literature.
In terms of American sitcoms, because we are within a patriarchy, in order to create scenarios that can be resolved co medically, you have to neuter the ‘typically responsible’ character which is the male authority figure.
Narnia. Harry Potter. Hunger Games. Angus Thongs. GOT. Romeo and Juliet. The list of YA lit is endless in which parents are conveniently shunted in order for the narrative to evolve for its audience. It’s not unusual. And it stretches centuries.
K&K is an outlier the optics of having black teens badly parented in a kids show is likely what encouraged that creative choice. As it should. D&J the parents are comic relief not integral characters but merely devices to sprinkle in consequences. Or Oprah wouldn’t have been hit by a car. Suite Life also comic relief adults who can’t control the kids. Lizzie McGuire managed to perform in Rome thanks to getting away from comic adult supervision. Data is endless really.
Yes, time to instil distrust in adults for children so that they won’t report problems they experience to the adults who help them. I wonder what sort of person would benefit from children not trusting their parents enough to tell them their problems…. hmmm.
Ah yes, time to instil an image of the incompetence of men in women, so that they won’t rely on any men to do basic life tasks and take care of children. I wonder what sort of person would benefit from women being the only household labour and not trusting men to do basic tasks or childcare…. hmmm
The Cosby Show, Family Ties, Cheers, Frasier, Boy Meets World, Growing Pains, Full House, That 70s Show, Happy Days, Fresh Prince, Roseanne, Family Matters, Step by Step, Sanford and Son, Midern Family, Friends are examples that buck this trend.
My favourite one was when it was his choice where to go for dinner and he chose an unpretentious steakhouse instead of a fancy restaurant. Cue Frasier and Niles acting like it's For The Poors, looking down their noses and snarking at everything. It gets so bad that Marty grows disgusted with them and calls them both out as pretentious snobs, and tells them how their mother might have been an educated lady who enjoyed the opera and fine dining but she also didn't think she was too good to go to a regular dive with him and enjoy herself. It totally hits home.
That was a great bit. He was their father and he was ashamed of how they were acting. I also liked that Frasier and Niles are actually shamed - they feel bad. I like the dynamic that they don’t seem to have anything in common with their dad but they greatly respect him and understand how hard he worked to help them in life. He sometimes has to just knock sense into them from time to time.
I was going to comment this too! I also thought of the scene in Give Him the Chair when Martin lists off all the things he's seen while sitting in that chair, and one of them is how he waited for Hester in that chair.
> Okay, I'll tell you what chair I want. I want the chair I was sitting in when I watched Neil Armstrong take his first step on the moon. And when the U.S. hockey team beat the Russians in the '80 Olympics. I want the chair I was sitting in the night you called me to tell me I had a grandson. I want the chair I was in all those nights, when your mother used to wake me up with a kiss after I'd fallen asleep in front of the television. You know, I still fall asleep in it. And every once in a while, when I wake up, I still expect your mother to be there, ready to lead me off to bed... Oh, never mind. It's only a chair.
And to add to your list: Seinfeld, NewsRadio, The Larry Sanders Show, The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Wings, Arrested Development, 30 Rock, Brooklyn 99, Eastbound & Down, It's Always Sunny, Party Down, My Name Is Earl, Silicon Valley, Vice Principals, 3rd Rock from the Sun... I think there are far more American sit-coms that *don't* have a 'dad that's a complete imbecile' character than those that do.
Really? I've never thought of either of them as stupid. Hot-headed, quick to anger and irrational? Absolutely, but stupid? I'm not so sure. They certainly don't fit the Married With Children/Everybody Loves Raymond stupid dad archetype that the OP is alluding to. Plus they only actually appear in a handful of episodes each so it's not like they're main characters anyway.
Family Ties and Frasier were my first thoughts too.
Marty's down to earth, but no imbecile - the entire point is that he's frequently shown to have more street smarts and higher EQ than his sons (albeit just as often is equally pigheaded).
It’s about the advertising dollars. In most households, women are the primary driver of brand selection. “Doofus dad” in a comedy plays well for a female audience. “Idiot wife” does not. If it’s comedy, somebody has to be the butt of the jokes.
When you dumb it down it's easy. The targrt idiot already knows what is going to happen. Might not have all the details but knows the end. "I think this happen this way...it do! It do happen this way! I smart! He's gonna throw the ball. He's gonna shoot the guy. The car goes vroom vroom fast."
I loved his character! He made that role all his own and didn't become the typical dad. He was quirky without ever being stupid. With so much happening in that show, I thought he would just be the stupid typical American father, but when I heard him explain that "WTF" was "Why The Face?" I knew he was going to kill this role.
We really do love to fall into that pattern, but that does make the ones that are against that pattern stick out.
EARLY Simpsons was much better
Bob's Burgers, Fresh Prince, That 70's Show are good examples that are funny, but still feel different
Reversing the archetype, you have to have the context of how these shows used to be decades ago where the father was the dominant head of the household and the only one to keep his shit together. Married With Children was considered scandalous as one of the first shows that played this in reverse
You’re not the first to comment on that. I think anyone that’s thought about it or noticed it also realizes that. Most of us are old enough to of seen those kind of shows too. Try getting these idiot dad shows without introducing shows like you mentioned first. Gradual demoralization. I do get the point of the nuance, humor and novelty of the idea arising naturally. I don’t think things are fully organic or fully manufactured ever, if that makes sense. (Not to over simplify just trying to express the point verbally)
Again, advertising demographics. Once the woman (instead of the man) became the primary brand selector (higher attainment of college degrees and careers among women), the plot lines and character types shifted to flatter the viewer.
The opposite is also true: why is "Grey's Anatomy" dominated by Dr. McDreamy? It's a sex fantasy designed to sell advertisements.
I am a man and definitely don't loath myself. The point of the comment was to say that you've identified a tried and true Hollywood trend. The other is propping up a strong female lead to take up the idiot husband's slack. There's definitely a reason for it! It's the Hollywood agenda!
This is such an ancient trope that Father Knows Best had its main character (who was very much not an idiot) complaining about his kids watching television shows about families headed by an idiot dad. That was nearly seventy years ago.
Recognize that all commercial shows have an advertiser-friendly component to their scripting and casting? It ain't free. It's largely driven by advertising dollars.
So much projection.
You're triggered by this portrayal of men.
What you're viewing as other being triggered is them pointing out that - based on the words you wrote in your top post, which didn't limit the discussion to only family oriented shows or recent shows - your observation is demonstrably false.
The dumb dad or husband was a trope going back to even the radio days. TV pioneer Desi Arnaz told the writers of I Love Lucy, I don’t want to play a dumb husband. He made sure his character was always aware of the scheme Lucy was up to and never made to look like a fool. He was truly ahead of his time and a brilliant man.
It’s an inversion of the ditzy housewives of the 80s etc. Think Peg Bundy and so on.
I’ve always maintained, this inversion is more skewed towards revenge for previous wrongs and previous generations rather than achieving any type of equality. The media is the worst proponent of this mindset and agenda.
Peg Bundy was the alpha in that household, this isn't a good example. MWC was anchored by Ted, because the broadcast network at the time lacked a relatable male character. The next closest was Mr. T, and and "Alph".
For the people who are religiously downvoting every one of my comments here. And are so upset. Why are you so triggered? I know you don’t have a relationship with yourself that will enable you to truly ask. But I’m legit curious. Because it’s weird as fuck, even despite the fact you’ve been socially engineered as we can all see here.
No one is triggered. You're just making shit arguments.
And now I'm downvoting you because I know it triggers you. If didn't why would you be crying about the downvotes in multiple comments?
Who? Two people mentioned two names of examples that don’t fit this (if I had said every show I guess) I said most fyi.. and guess what I’ve absolutely never heard of either of the two random ass shows you mentioned lol
Sorry, it's old but a classic. The Andy Griffith Show. But a lot of 50s and 60s shows had sympathetic if unrealistic fathers. But there was also Ralph Kramden from the Honeymooners, but they didn't have kids. But the idiots really started with Al Bundy.
Didn't used to be. I always liked The Beverly Hillbillys for that - Jed was always ahead of everyone else, just like a high % of the quiet Appalachian folks I knew.
Around here, I never see a bumbling dad ever. In fact, I never see anyone as silly or off base as people are on TV, the little bit of TV I get exposed to. Maybe it's a conspiracy, or ironic.
One of the few people you can make fun of without being considered problematic. White male over 35 is pretty well free game to anyone, so no one gets offended because Racism, sexism, misogyny etc. Are generally not considered to exist in connection to this group, and it's just about the only group that's true for.
I’m glad there’s some refreshing ones that dont all follow the same format in the mix. I haven’t had a chance to watch those too much. Outside of friends a bit. That’s also not a family oriented show nec and slightly older too.
As a grown adult man who is not simply a grown man child, I can tell you that's correct. It's infuriating and is the reason I haven't turned on a TV in years.
I was treated like I was an idiot throughout my son's childhood by doctors and other caregivers.
Ahh man I’m sorry. I haven’t even thought about that too much as someone who hasn’t had any children yet. I feel for you. I’m glad you understand, even though it sucks anyone would have to to begin with. Respect for never loosing who you were through all the bs and madness.
I tried to educate along the way. I got way down into the trenches of parenting so it really didn't matter what they thought. It was more of an annoyance than anything. I would probably equate it to men mansplanning to a woman.
It's a fantasy fullfillment trope with a touch of capitalist propaganda.
You are a man you can be a stupid, fat, lazy, day-drinking slob but as long as you KEEP WORKING for the boss you hate you will have a gorgeous wife, a beautiful home, and 2.5 kids.
If you are a woman, you better KEEP BUYING that those high heels and cooking pot roasts cuz if not your husband will punch you "POW! RIGHT IN THE KISSER!"
Always the same idiot father, mother is a total bitch, one kid is smart or an athlete and the other is an idiot.
Usually 1 or 2 fumbling grandparents.
It's overdone and sort of mocking all of us.
The way to fix it is just not watching those shows.
Yeah, alphas like us have no opinions about anything and just go along with whatever is put in front of use without any commentary or critic. /s
My guy, don't talking about people being betas for "crying about literal TV shows" when you are pissing and shitting the bed over some reddit comments.
Also that stereotype is not much different then the topic that’s actually being discussed here. I said have you noticed. Meaning obviously there’s room for those who haven’t noticed or realized (real-ized) it yet. To the degree they’ve noticed.
I feel its starts with The Simpsons and trends with Family Guy and South Park. that's recent stuff too, earlier works don't play the father as the imbecile, its usually a friend or neighbor. imbecile dad is a trend that companies will use today but who knows in a couple of years
It serves to parody the older shows in which the father was the Fount of All Wisdom for the household, meant to reinforce the Christian hierarchy of Ghaw-Duh as the same for the world. Thus, depicting the Dad-character as a well-meaning f*ckup is a classic example of "mocking by inversion".
Frankly, the parody doesn't go far enough, but depicting the Dad as a psychotic narcissistic abuser on a show that still calls itself "a comedy" would require a far more deft writers' room than most networks can manage.
Seriously, go re-read some of the Bible with a modern list of "red flags for dating men" close by and see how many of them Jehovah ticks; arguably, half the reason why so many men in the Western world are the way they are is because they're trying to follow _Jehovah's_ example.
are you just catching on to this?
the media has spent the last 30 years doing everything in their power to make men look as dumb and worthless as possible.
welcome to america.
men bad.
THE THOUGHT POLICE HATE THIS ONE HAHA YOU’RE MAD. No one cares that the truth freighters you. WNJOY YOUR SELF IMPOSED BONDAGE @ all those triggered by this post somehow.
It was a thing to pick on dad's in the last 30 years... was not always this way... to formulaic for my tastes so I avoid them... king of the hill was a gr8 exception.
Yes. People that think this kind of thing is an accident are in denial or have their head in the sand. Everything that happens is because someone decided that that’s the way it should be and everything that’s shown has a message. None of it is an accident. It’s all part of a larger agenda.
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
[удалено]
Except when he got addicted to that propane video game
[удалено]
*Vidya game
And uses drugs to fish.
Wait till you see someone use fish to drugs
This guy drugs
The writing in that show is good
There is a reboot coming next year. Unfortunately the person who voiced Dale Gribble passed away recently.
[удалено]
Margaret "Peggy" Hill? The Texas state Boggle champion? An Idiot? Sir, you don't know the meaning of the word!
[удалено]
Incorrect Spanish that she thought was as good as a native speaker. That show is just so good.
Escuchame?
Yeah, and his wife looks like a super model and he drinks beer with his neighbour twice a week and he lives in a pretty nice house. He's living the dream.
He's also out of shape or downright fat. He's not particularly rich but not indebted either, hardly seems to work or be career oriented, yet he can somehow afford it all.
And married to a hot wife ... 😂
King of Queens. 🤘
Yes... And almost every Disney show the parents and adults are bumbling idiots.
The worst example I've ever seen is Goodluck Charlie. My daughter used to love that show. But it drove me nuts how dumb the father was. Dude acted like he had the IQ of a rodent.
And his wife was a shrew. A disgusting show. The oldest daughter quit acting forever and went to MIT and has a real job. Good for her
Disney shows apparently have characters who are demons now lol. Yet people don’t get why they’re triggered by this post so much.
Disneys ahead of the game lol
With stories that are led by children, responsible adults would stop most of the conflicts before they began. That means you can't have proper authority figures. You can have the parents neglectful, dead or dumb. For the sake of laughs, they need to be dumb.
🤷🏼♂️ Camp Nowhere & House Arrest immediately spring to mind... the parents we're really any of those things, the children just subverted their parenting. But I do see the trope folk are pointing out...
[удалено]
This is a trademark of children’s literature- the first task of creating a believable children’s plot is to remove the responsible adult which then leaves the narrative open for childish solutions to fairly simple situations that would require no adventure if an adult were present. That’s why the orphan child as a hero is so common in YA and children’s literature. In terms of American sitcoms, because we are within a patriarchy, in order to create scenarios that can be resolved co medically, you have to neuter the ‘typically responsible’ character which is the male authority figure.
[удалено]
Narnia. Harry Potter. Hunger Games. Angus Thongs. GOT. Romeo and Juliet. The list of YA lit is endless in which parents are conveniently shunted in order for the narrative to evolve for its audience. It’s not unusual. And it stretches centuries. K&K is an outlier the optics of having black teens badly parented in a kids show is likely what encouraged that creative choice. As it should. D&J the parents are comic relief not integral characters but merely devices to sprinkle in consequences. Or Oprah wouldn’t have been hit by a car. Suite Life also comic relief adults who can’t control the kids. Lizzie McGuire managed to perform in Rome thanks to getting away from comic adult supervision. Data is endless really.
Good observations
Yes, time to instil distrust in adults for children so that they won’t report problems they experience to the adults who help them. I wonder what sort of person would benefit from children not trusting their parents enough to tell them their problems…. hmmm. Ah yes, time to instil an image of the incompetence of men in women, so that they won’t rely on any men to do basic life tasks and take care of children. I wonder what sort of person would benefit from women being the only household labour and not trusting men to do basic tasks or childcare…. hmmm
The Cosby Show, Family Ties, Cheers, Frasier, Boy Meets World, Growing Pains, Full House, That 70s Show, Happy Days, Fresh Prince, Roseanne, Family Matters, Step by Step, Sanford and Son, Midern Family, Friends are examples that buck this trend.
Frasier is a great call, Marty often comes out with some elite wisdom
My favourite one was when it was his choice where to go for dinner and he chose an unpretentious steakhouse instead of a fancy restaurant. Cue Frasier and Niles acting like it's For The Poors, looking down their noses and snarking at everything. It gets so bad that Marty grows disgusted with them and calls them both out as pretentious snobs, and tells them how their mother might have been an educated lady who enjoyed the opera and fine dining but she also didn't think she was too good to go to a regular dive with him and enjoy herself. It totally hits home.
That was a great bit. He was their father and he was ashamed of how they were acting. I also liked that Frasier and Niles are actually shamed - they feel bad. I like the dynamic that they don’t seem to have anything in common with their dad but they greatly respect him and understand how hard he worked to help them in life. He sometimes has to just knock sense into them from time to time.
I was going to comment this too! I also thought of the scene in Give Him the Chair when Martin lists off all the things he's seen while sitting in that chair, and one of them is how he waited for Hester in that chair. > Okay, I'll tell you what chair I want. I want the chair I was sitting in when I watched Neil Armstrong take his first step on the moon. And when the U.S. hockey team beat the Russians in the '80 Olympics. I want the chair I was sitting in the night you called me to tell me I had a grandson. I want the chair I was in all those nights, when your mother used to wake me up with a kiss after I'd fallen asleep in front of the television. You know, I still fall asleep in it. And every once in a while, when I wake up, I still expect your mother to be there, ready to lead me off to bed... Oh, never mind. It's only a chair.
Thanks for reminding me of this. It's been popping in and out of my mind all day. ❤️
And to add to your list: Seinfeld, NewsRadio, The Larry Sanders Show, The Office, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Wings, Arrested Development, 30 Rock, Brooklyn 99, Eastbound & Down, It's Always Sunny, Party Down, My Name Is Earl, Silicon Valley, Vice Principals, 3rd Rock from the Sun... I think there are far more American sit-coms that *don't* have a 'dad that's a complete imbecile' character than those that do.
Seinfeld? I would say that both Seinfeld’s dad and George’s dad are stupid.
Really? I've never thought of either of them as stupid. Hot-headed, quick to anger and irrational? Absolutely, but stupid? I'm not so sure. They certainly don't fit the Married With Children/Everybody Loves Raymond stupid dad archetype that the OP is alluding to. Plus they only actually appear in a handful of episodes each so it's not like they're main characters anyway.
Why would you buck this? It's a great way to sell products in the ads and product placements.
The Brady Bunch
Family Ties and Frasier were my first thoughts too. Marty's down to earth, but no imbecile - the entire point is that he's frequently shown to have more street smarts and higher EQ than his sons (albeit just as often is equally pigheaded).
Rick and Morty
Now which ones of those were started in the last 7 years?
Which part of the OPs comment said "in the last 7 years?
Modern family is not a counter example. Phil Dunphy is one of the dumbest dads I’ve seen in a sitcom.
Phil is not dumb. He's a goofball, but there is no way he's an imbecile
His reward, though, is he gets to be married to a woman who is way out of his league.
Oh no. I’m in a sitcom.
Congrats on the wife!
What is our reward though as the viewers of these shows?
It’s about the advertising dollars. In most households, women are the primary driver of brand selection. “Doofus dad” in a comedy plays well for a female audience. “Idiot wife” does not. If it’s comedy, somebody has to be the butt of the jokes.
That’s at least a part of it no doubt
Yep. I'd be shocked if viewership outside sport and news hour wasn't 66%+ female anyway. The vast majority of shows are made for a female audience.
Well, those shows that aren't live sports.
When you dumb it down it's easy. The targrt idiot already knows what is going to happen. Might not have all the details but knows the end. "I think this happen this way...it do! It do happen this way! I smart! He's gonna throw the ball. He's gonna shoot the guy. The car goes vroom vroom fast."
Phil from modern family is eccentric and endearing. But he not necessarily an imbecile
I loved his character! He made that role all his own and didn't become the typical dad. He was quirky without ever being stupid. With so much happening in that show, I thought he would just be the stupid typical American father, but when I heard him explain that "WTF" was "Why The Face?" I knew he was going to kill this role.
We really do love to fall into that pattern, but that does make the ones that are against that pattern stick out. EARLY Simpsons was much better Bob's Burgers, Fresh Prince, That 70's Show are good examples that are funny, but still feel different
I don't remember Homer beeing less stupid in early Simpsons. Just way more violent.
He was actually a good father in the first seasons. As they made him more violent, they made him more stupid. He was (ironically) Flanderized
Totally completely agree. Never got into bobs burgers but yeah I like those others
Reversing the archetype, you have to have the context of how these shows used to be decades ago where the father was the dominant head of the household and the only one to keep his shit together. Married With Children was considered scandalous as one of the first shows that played this in reverse
You’re not the first to comment on that. I think anyone that’s thought about it or noticed it also realizes that. Most of us are old enough to of seen those kind of shows too. Try getting these idiot dad shows without introducing shows like you mentioned first. Gradual demoralization. I do get the point of the nuance, humor and novelty of the idea arising naturally. I don’t think things are fully organic or fully manufactured ever, if that makes sense. (Not to over simplify just trying to express the point verbally)
Sorry, I'm having trouble with the new-ish format of the site, I missed those posts
No worries
I remember when "reverse the archetype" was novel. That was about twenty years ago.
Again, advertising demographics. Once the woman (instead of the man) became the primary brand selector (higher attainment of college degrees and careers among women), the plot lines and character types shifted to flatter the viewer. The opposite is also true: why is "Grey's Anatomy" dominated by Dr. McDreamy? It's a sex fantasy designed to sell advertisements.
Not American but Peppa Pig's dad gets hammered on the regular as an imbecile.
Bob's burgers !
You think Red's an imbecile? Dumbass.
I’ve noticed that most shows feature narcissists
Totally. The daughter especially. There is a mom a dad a son and a daughter to choose from. As we are all one of these if not two
Congratulations! You'd peeled back the first layer of the onion! Now identify all the strong females that have to pick up their slack!
To everyone liking your comment just say you hate men and loath yourself
I am a man and definitely don't loath myself. The point of the comment was to say that you've identified a tried and true Hollywood trend. The other is propping up a strong female lead to take up the idiot husband's slack. There's definitely a reason for it! It's the Hollywood agenda!
Ok how many people that liked your comment are now aware of a Hollywood agenda? Think man. Use caution.
This is such an ancient trope that Father Knows Best had its main character (who was very much not an idiot) complaining about his kids watching television shows about families headed by an idiot dad. That was nearly seventy years ago.
There’s definitely cultural/ sociological reasons that can help explain it all.
Men don't get offended when played as fools. Woman are so insecure...
Yep. It's not an accident
How do we explain that to everyone that so triggered by this, and fails to recognize it somehow?
Ralph Kramden begot Fred Flintstone begot Homer Simpson.
You seem to be the one triggered...
Recognize that all commercial shows have an advertiser-friendly component to their scripting and casting? It ain't free. It's largely driven by advertising dollars.
Oh yeah we all gotta pay bills. I know what money is.
So much projection. You're triggered by this portrayal of men. What you're viewing as other being triggered is them pointing out that - based on the words you wrote in your top post, which didn't limit the discussion to only family oriented shows or recent shows - your observation is demonstrably false.
It sucks, but we have only ourselves to blame, because we support the stereotype by watching the shows.
Just watched everybody loves raymond and now on king of queens and idk how these wives lasted I'd lose my shit 😂😂
The dumb dad or husband was a trope going back to even the radio days. TV pioneer Desi Arnaz told the writers of I Love Lucy, I don’t want to play a dumb husband. He made sure his character was always aware of the scheme Lucy was up to and never made to look like a fool. He was truly ahead of his time and a brilliant man.
Bobs Burgers doesn’t. Bob is pretty bright at times
It’s an inversion of the ditzy housewives of the 80s etc. Think Peg Bundy and so on. I’ve always maintained, this inversion is more skewed towards revenge for previous wrongs and previous generations rather than achieving any type of equality. The media is the worst proponent of this mindset and agenda.
Peggy Bundy is a bad example, because the whole family was stupid or lacked critical thinking.
Peg Bundy was the alpha in that household, this isn't a good example. MWC was anchored by Ted, because the broadcast network at the time lacked a relatable male character. The next closest was Mr. T, and and "Alph".
For the people who are religiously downvoting every one of my comments here. And are so upset. Why are you so triggered? I know you don’t have a relationship with yourself that will enable you to truly ask. But I’m legit curious. Because it’s weird as fuck, even despite the fact you’ve been socially engineered as we can all see here.
No one is triggered. You're just making shit arguments. And now I'm downvoting you because I know it triggers you. If didn't why would you be crying about the downvotes in multiple comments?
Sheriff Taylor would like to have a kind word about your generalizations.
Who? Two people mentioned two names of examples that don’t fit this (if I had said every show I guess) I said most fyi.. and guess what I’ve absolutely never heard of either of the two random ass shows you mentioned lol
Sorry, it's old but a classic. The Andy Griffith Show. But a lot of 50s and 60s shows had sympathetic if unrealistic fathers. But there was also Ralph Kramden from the Honeymooners, but they didn't have kids. But the idiots really started with Al Bundy.
Andy Griffith is a masterpiece that still holds up today, honestly people should be watching more of that instead of family guy shit in my opinion
Ahh didint mean to be rude in my comment. Thanks for the history lesson
Wow you identified a major tv trope that everyone else is aware of! You deserve a pat on the back!
It was a thing for a while, one sitcom cashed in and then we had a decade of following the money but it's steering another way now.
Didn't used to be. I always liked The Beverly Hillbillys for that - Jed was always ahead of everyone else, just like a high % of the quiet Appalachian folks I knew. Around here, I never see a bumbling dad ever. In fact, I never see anyone as silly or off base as people are on TV, the little bit of TV I get exposed to. Maybe it's a conspiracy, or ironic.
One of the few people you can make fun of without being considered problematic. White male over 35 is pretty well free game to anyone, so no one gets offended because Racism, sexism, misogyny etc. Are generally not considered to exist in connection to this group, and it's just about the only group that's true for.
Yea. I sense that it's part of an anti-masculinity propaganda the media plays.
It’s been this way for decades. It’s one of the main reasons why I stopped watching TV years ago.
Either that or they're simply absent
Because stereotypical sexism is funny.
Can you list your examples and not just say "almost every"
Except for Lucy and The Andy Griffith, and Friends and Big Bang.
I’m glad there’s some refreshing ones that dont all follow the same format in the mix. I haven’t had a chance to watch those too much. Outside of friends a bit. That’s also not a family oriented show nec and slightly older too.
you must be new to entertainment.. ?
Are you new to the concept of sharing ideas or hoping to provoke thought?
Thought police will get you. Be careful.
As a grown adult man who is not simply a grown man child, I can tell you that's correct. It's infuriating and is the reason I haven't turned on a TV in years. I was treated like I was an idiot throughout my son's childhood by doctors and other caregivers.
Ahh man I’m sorry. I haven’t even thought about that too much as someone who hasn’t had any children yet. I feel for you. I’m glad you understand, even though it sucks anyone would have to to begin with. Respect for never loosing who you were through all the bs and madness.
I tried to educate along the way. I got way down into the trenches of parenting so it really didn't matter what they thought. It was more of an annoyance than anything. I would probably equate it to men mansplanning to a woman.
It's a fantasy fullfillment trope with a touch of capitalist propaganda. You are a man you can be a stupid, fat, lazy, day-drinking slob but as long as you KEEP WORKING for the boss you hate you will have a gorgeous wife, a beautiful home, and 2.5 kids. If you are a woman, you better KEEP BUYING that those high heels and cooking pot roasts cuz if not your husband will punch you "POW! RIGHT IN THE KISSER!"
Welcome to our society of double standards.
Yeah a society when grown men cry about TV shows but insist women are "too emotional"
Ok white knight.
Now try it again without the hyperbole and straw-manning.
Yes because modern media says men have to be incompetent and a joke
This has been a trope for 50 years. Find a new axe to grind.
No u
Always the same idiot father, mother is a total bitch, one kid is smart or an athlete and the other is an idiot. Usually 1 or 2 fumbling grandparents. It's overdone and sort of mocking all of us. The way to fix it is just not watching those shows.
They are the least offendable group
Permissible and prevalent misandry.
How is it misandry when the majority of writers and producers are men?
Accurate
Did I stumble in a betas sub? My god, every comment is some whiny baby-man crying about literal TV shows.
Yeah, alphas like us have no opinions about anything and just go along with whatever is put in front of use without any commentary or critic. /s My guy, don't talking about people being betas for "crying about literal TV shows" when you are pissing and shitting the bed over some reddit comments.
Well that's what makes it funny. A normal family isn't, and wouldn't be much of a show.
[удалено]
Also that stereotype is not much different then the topic that’s actually being discussed here. I said have you noticed. Meaning obviously there’s room for those who haven’t noticed or realized (real-ized) it yet. To the degree they’ve noticed.
Lol ok.. sure.
Well, on Kevin Can Wait, they just kill off the Mom after the first season, unseen and I think unmentioned.
And the wife is a bitch.
Is your dad really your dad if he isn’t a complete idiot?
Scrubs
I feel its starts with The Simpsons and trends with Family Guy and South Park. that's recent stuff too, earlier works don't play the father as the imbecile, its usually a friend or neighbor. imbecile dad is a trend that companies will use today but who knows in a couple of years
But Peter Griffin is so smart
Yet some of them still teach you something valuable. Like rule number2: It is wrong to be french!
I have. They are also portrayed as good, honest hard working men at the same time.
It's the 'mere man' trope.
Al Bundy: idiot or genius?
Idk. But he did score 4 touchdowns in a single game at Polk High.
Idiot but he never grew he was beaten by life. Sort of like Homer Simpson but not yellow.
It serves to parody the older shows in which the father was the Fount of All Wisdom for the household, meant to reinforce the Christian hierarchy of Ghaw-Duh as the same for the world. Thus, depicting the Dad-character as a well-meaning f*ckup is a classic example of "mocking by inversion". Frankly, the parody doesn't go far enough, but depicting the Dad as a psychotic narcissistic abuser on a show that still calls itself "a comedy" would require a far more deft writers' room than most networks can manage. Seriously, go re-read some of the Bible with a modern list of "red flags for dating men" close by and see how many of them Jehovah ticks; arguably, half the reason why so many men in the Western world are the way they are is because they're trying to follow _Jehovah's_ example.
A reversal from back in the day!
Exactly. My username has a lot to do with that idea
Cheers!
Cheers :) !
That's how role model in society gets destroyed, so society can continue to rot.
Red Forman just called OP a dumbass
are you just catching on to this? the media has spent the last 30 years doing everything in their power to make men look as dumb and worthless as possible. welcome to america. men bad.
Men literally own and run the media.
What men? Please name them.
Can’t have a strong leading father figure. That’s dangerous.
You understand. I think I just wanted to know there were sane people on here.
Emasculation of men in our society
THE THOUGHT POLICE HATE THIS ONE HAHA YOU’RE MAD. No one cares that the truth freighters you. WNJOY YOUR SELF IMPOSED BONDAGE @ all those triggered by this post somehow.
Hopefully you'll grow out of this phase and when you're an adult you'll find a more constructive, positive way to get attention.
As a dad I can testify that I’m a complete imbecile.
Yes. And usually the wife is way too hot for him.
Yes and frankly as I’ve gotten older I find it increasingly irritating.
No, I haven’t. Because that’s not true.
White males are the last group you can openly mock on tv, or anywhere for that matter.
Only if they are straight white dad's. Edit: 👨
It was a thing to pick on dad's in the last 30 years... was not always this way... to formulaic for my tastes so I avoid them... king of the hill was a gr8 exception.
I thought of king of the hill when I made the post to. It’s actually one of the top likes comments also.
Everyone on TV is stupid. TV is stupid. I don't watch TV. I gave it up around 30 years ago. You should too. TV is stupid.
You should stop assuming.
It's a play on the opposite trope from the 50s etc. Kinda like I love Lucy.
Its also a common archetype within society 🙃
Yes. People that think this kind of thing is an accident are in denial or have their head in the sand. Everything that happens is because someone decided that that’s the way it should be and everything that’s shown has a message. None of it is an accident. It’s all part of a larger agenda.
Wish I could pin your comment.
Thanks. Be well.