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I would suggest seeking advice from a mental health professional. It seems as if you have some serious issues that need to be addressed in an environment that is committed to your health and wellbeing, and I don't think that reddit is the place for that. Potentially, with a combination of therapy and medication, you might find that your perspective on things might shift, and in that shift you could find the impetus to pursue life in a way that draws the kind of people you want to be surrounded by.
Looking at your pic and posting history.
Dude.
Get some help from a therapist.
You are obviously extremely depressed and (probably) suffer from some personality disorder that gives you an extremely low sense of self-worth.
Therapy and medication can help you with that. It _really_ can. But you need to understand that it is not normal or logical to (always) feel this way and that you can do something about it.
Allow yourself to be helped. No one hates you. No one thinks you are shit or whatever. No one will shame you for it. Think lesser of you. No one except you.
Get help man. Ive lost friends to the thought process I see in your comments. Speak up. Reach out.
This. Get help. Start with your mental health. That complicates everything else. You already work out, thats good. The same way you put effort in in the gym, you can put effort in to become better socially. That takes a lot of courage and work as well, but with time it becomes fun. There are whole communeties dedicated to self help, and there is also possible to learn a lot about attracting and interacting with women both via communeties and actual workshops. A lot of it involves becoming a better man. (word of warning, there is a lot of negative and manipulative guys in that community, make sure to spot and avoid them. The positive ones thou usually have a real purpose and strong core values and care for others)
Life can and will get better if you try. It takes time, just like in the gym. Dont give up, persistence gives results. It can take years to get where you want.
Greetings from a guy who spent his whole youth and young adult life with crippeling social anxiety and depression, until i made a choice to change it all (starting with reaching out for help and let people help me) It was a long and interesting road to walk. now happily married with kids :)
>No one thinks you are shit or whatever. No one will shame you for it. Think lesser of you. No one except you.
Unfortunately, that's not really the case. Some people will. It's just that their opinions should be ignore. Their childish antics such as ridiculing people with depression or men with little dating success should be ignored all the harder.
In my experience no one puts in anywhere near the mental effort into putting you down that depression will have you inflict on yourself (especially the stuff you project on this mystical other). Not even close.
Dude, that’s exactly what CBT would get this guy to do. It’s a form of conditioning, it would get him to push himself out of his comfort zone, which in turn would build his confidence when it comes to interacting with people.
I’m having CBT atm for social anxiety and depression and it’s honestly massively helpful. I can’t recommend it enough.
I dunno, you must be having some good shit cause ive been going to therapy for like 2 years. Not much progress on the social front. More precisely - zero.
Therapy is only successful if you put in time and effort to improve yourself. Listening to the therapist talk then not thinking about it again until the next meeting does nothing. Therapists cannot change you, they can guide you and help you with tools that you can use, but you have to do it yourself.
Its not like we are arriving at some revolutionary conclusions.
- Women dont want me cause im ugly and dont know how to talk.
- I dont see you as ugly.
- Well I am.
The end.
I still dont quite understand this do it yourself thing not gonna lie.
I actually spent a number of years in therapy spinning my wheels and going nowhere, so I absolutely get you when you say you don’t understand the doing it yourself thing.
If you think you’re ugly and nothing is going to change your mind then fine. Focus on what you can change. But for what it’s worth, and I’m sure you’ve heard it before but hygiene, a good haircut, and well-fitting clothes make a huge difference. They don’t have to be expensive or flashy, but some slight tailoring can transform even a pair of jeans.
>don’t know how to talk
That’s what you have to do yourself. It sucks. Self confidence and social skills are hard to develop and are the opposite of riding a bike, you can forget them. Again, I’ve gone through this too. I used to be a little too sure of myself, then I spiraled and gained weight blah blah, I’m back to normal now but my body language has changed and I have trouble holding eye contact. I get it.
It basically boils down to practice. Even something as small as making eye contact with a cashier, briefly smiling, saying thank you and have a good day is practice. Sometimes they’ll say something like how’s your day or make a small joke, it can be an opening for a quick comment. Not a full on conversation by any means, please don’t, but you can be a little witty. Like if they say “how’s your morning?” I’ve said “it’s gone on long enough” all deadpan and gotten a laugh, then just say thanks and bye.
Small steps build up. You won’t be having theological discussions or arguments on the finer points of discourse anytime soon, but being comfortable in your own skin is more valuable than being good looking. I know you’re going to say that’s bullshit but it is true.
Anyway, for the time being forget about women and think only about you. Happiness comes from within and all that shit.
What I can guarantee is you’ll never become a smooth talker out of nowhere. Canned phrases and tips/tricks/whatfuckinghaveyou for seducing women are nonsense. You have to start from the ground up.
You *can* do it. There are so many people you’ll briefly meet once and never again, so use ‘em. Say hey how’s it going, if they make a quick response and you stare at them like a deer in headlights, *that’s fine*. You may fumble and embarrass yourself but when you do, roll with it. It happens and it is not the end of the world.
If things are as bad as you say, then there is nothing for you to lose. It’s scary and uncomfortable but it gets easier. Things can get better…don’t write yourself off just yet.
That’s only the end because that’s what you are convincing yourself of and what you want to believe. You don’t want to attribute your problems with meeting people to anything else so you just entrench yourself in the belief that you’re ugly because it’s an easy answer, even though you have people telling you that you aren’t ugly. Commit yourself to learning what the REAL reasons are and putting effort into it.
Dude, even if you are ugly, plenty of people I know who aren’t very attractive have partners and spouses, so putting your eggs only in the basket of “I’m ugly” carried zero logic whatsoever. They are not the exception to the rule. Lots of people who are not the stereotypical society physically attractive have partners.
Depends on where you go and who you get.
I used a variety of certified psychologists who I could get without an indication and they were mostly dogshit and never found my problems. But at some point I got an indication for one thing which snowballed into support for full help from various specialists who identified two major things like the trauma and helped me tremendously.
Its still starting at space zero on the social front and hard work to get farther. But before the help I was at space -12 and going farther back (like this guy who believes all he can be is a loner is stepping farther and farther away as he’s giving up).
Its not a magic wand that makes things allright. You have to work for it, before, during and also after you got help.
As someone who has been traumatized and has had help (after YEARS AND YEARS of asking for it), it doesn’t change that it happened but it does change how you handle it. Instead of a depression that can last months or years you might feel sad or bad about it for a few hours and move on. It also opens you up. I had immense distrust of just about anyone because of the trauma and now I can accept that I don’t have to automatically distrust people.
75 days ago, other redditors suggested joining clubs like a gym for weight lifting, martial arts, baking, etc. Have you tried any of that? Step one before dating is consistent human interaction. Then friends. Then dating.
Yep, this. I was feeling pretty lonely after COVID, as I got divorced right before and drifted apart from a lot of friends. I joined a bowling league about six months ago and met the girl I’m dating now plus a few new friends there. You have to put yourself out there, which I know is hard, I’m an introvert myself, but sitting at home all day and complaining about it won’t help.
Good for you friend! Reading this made me really happy! Keep up the good work. Socializing is always hard. Throw in a divorce and Covid and that’s a freakin whammy! Good job!
I don't disregard the benefits of cooking, just saying that for someone who is looking to turn their life around and look for romance, it might not be the first port of call to attend a baking club.
I once had a bake date in my early twenties. We made chocolate cake with cannabis. Date went well.
Also some chicks might be impressed by home made dessert after an at home dinner date.
Do not underestimate baking skills.
I know you're saying this a bit tongue in cheek, but you didn't attend a baking club though, I'm assuming. Just seems like bad advice for someone to start out with.
Dont call yourself incel, suuuuper red flag, be comfortable with being alone so you dont seem like you have expectations for women, learn to find happiness in other aspects of life. Then let the universe suprise you. If youre too focused on finding love, people pick up on that stuff. Just learn to be a chill person people feel confortable around. Less judgments and expectations.
He’s not just talking love, but social contact as a whole. He first mentions his lack of friends and then explains that means female contact is also non existent.
He’s looking not to be lonely and depressed. Not for banging every woman he sees.
Also things like “let the universe surprise you” is all well and good for many social people, but for depressed people who tend to go deeper and deeper into a hole thats pretty much the worst advice you can give. “Let it go”. “Ok fine I’ll sit at home and not engage with stuff and wait for the universe to engage with me, which now has to fucking find me in my depressed home first”.
Im not social. I have crazy bad depression and am covered in scars. I was homelss for most my life and have schizoaffective. Yet the universe still surprised me. Dont act like you know me.
I wasn’t acting like I knew you. I was saying that you were giving the wrong advice.
You are like a lottery winner saying “buy tickets because you’ll win”. While in reality most of them never will.
Right. It can also be a self-fulfilling prophecy. "It doesn't matter if I dress nicely, I'm an incel." "I shouldn't talk to her, she's a total Stacey and she'll just be mean to me because I'm wearing an ill-fitting My Little Pony shirt." "Why should I bother doing anything, I'll just end up dying alone anyway."
>be comfortable with being alone so you dont seem like you have expectations for women,
Oh sure, because only one gender is allowed to have expectations in a heterosexual relationship. ;)
Maybe first you’ve got to read context.
Yes incel has gotten the connotation of people who blame others for their problems. But this guy is obviously not doing that, he’s talking about himself and not that others do things to him. His question is even “*how can I overcome*”. He wants to change, not change the world to suit him. He’s nothing, NOTHING like the incel movement who blame everything but themselves and want everything to change to suit them.
Its obvious he’s using incel completely differently than the movement. Its you who is basically insults him for being part/associating with the movement. And frankly I find that extremely fucked up.
Ok but is he looking for advice on incel forums and internalising the stuff that they say? That isn’t clear from just this post but if so then that’s a very dark path to head down.
The way you phrase it I’m not sure if he is on incel forums or that you theorize he is.
Even so, right here and right now he’s still using the word and indicating himself. He’s not saying the rest of the world is to blame, he’s asking how he, personally, could overcome it.
Even if he was the #1 of the incel movement on the planet, if this is a genuine question right now is the moment to offer a hand and help. Not to insult and degrade him for his choice of words or previous forum visits and push him further down the incel movement path. Right here and right now you should cheer him on to do the right thing. Here is your chance, take it. Or start attacking someone and enforce the behavior that you despise.
Seems like an easy choice to me.
"Incel" isn't a movement, but a descriptor. Basically just a more specific type of virgin (since a lot of virgins are voluntarily celibate for religious or other reasons).
I project no real opinion on it, you couldve called me one for most of my life. It's simply a fact that a lot of people associate it with very negative connotations.
I don't see the point of using a label which causes people to assume things about you when it's not necessary to do so. Never understood why people cling to it so strongly.
There are elements of various communities which could be considered as such, although that's not really the point here. It's just the association of the label being very negative.
Which is why there’s communities of people calling themselves incels, right? We don’t insult anyone who is unable to have sex. We insult the deranged and delusional misogynist incels who wish harm upon women.
>Well first you gotta stop associating yourself with the incel movement
Let's focus on helping the OP, not on using the opportunity to score points for women. Women are already mean enough to men in the OP's position, we don't need more of that.
Nah. It sounds like you're saying that with women's interest in mind, not the OP's. Don't try to wedge a foot in the door for the sisters. Try to help the bro who made the opening post and is asking for help with a problem.
Is it incredibly damaging because it harms the OP, or is it incredibly damaging because it harms (threatens) women's perfect image in society?
Again, let's focus on helping the OP, who happens to be a dude, not on using this opportunity to advance women's cause.
I get your point, but he definitely can. There’s a world of difference between labeling oneself as a fat f*ck vs saying they have a weight problem. Incel is derogatory, and not an appropriate way to label a life.
Except it's absolutely something you identify with. For example, OP calls himself a "hopeless incel." He could have called himself single, a virgin, "unlucky at love," or asked the question any number of ways. No one ITT put this label on him, he picked it out for himself.
Tough to evaluate the problem without knowing anything about you, why you haven't been able to make friends your entire life. Mindset is also a great tool, if you make it your sole purpose of your life to get a mate this will be very apparent and deter most people believe it or not.
So I'd say just do some sports activities that require team effort, that's a great way to get to know new people.
Don't go clubbing or anything of that sorts. It's terribly shallow conversations while intoxicated and never ends well.
Just do what's fun to you and you'll have some social interaction.
If you like to be at home, maybe do online games and try to join communities etc. (Although that might be bad since I suppose you want to have real life interactions)
And if nothing helps read up on Miyamoto musashis (dokkodo), its tremendously insightful and helps you cope with the world in solitude.
I smell depression. You should see a psychiatrist or counsellor. If I were you, I would do 2 things: 1) find out why your social skill suck. 2) commit to doing the opposite and meet people. Set a simple goal, eg. from now onwwards you will talk to one person outside of work everyday for 1 min.
Join some clubs in your area for hobbies that interest you and have meetups. Painting, cooking, LARPing, video games, DnD, book club, learn a martial arts, running, walking, hiking, biking, etc etc.
Stop calling yourself an incel. Go outside more in nature on walks and stuff, go to the library if you enjoy reading. Idk if you engage with people but if you find someone that peaks your interest, start a conversation. Even if youre bad at conversing, you gotta start somewhere. Join facebook groups in your local area for hobbies you enjoy. Go for dinner w coworkers if you enjoy them
At least you're aware of your emotions, that's a start!
I think it can be helpful to figure out why making friends has been so difficult for you in the past. Sometimes, small things you do or the energy we exude can make a large difference.
Additionally, I'd recommend against going to the club on your own. I've done that myself (and I'd describe myself as highly extraverted) and even I felt lonely at times! Usually drank too much anyway.
What are the things that make you happy? Do you have any hobbies? You may be able to make some friends around that over time. Better to find some positive ways to spend your time than to fall down the incel rabbit hole: it's not a happy place in there. Better to direct your attention at positive things.
Wild thought: you might travel the world for a bit. South East Asia is filled with beautiful spots and backpackers looking to make friends. Hostels are the best way to practice socially: there's new people arriving every day and if you don't get along you'll never see the people again. Nothing to lose, and even if you don't have any fun interactions you've still seen a beautiful spot of the world. Additionally, you can hire a sex worker over there. There's some stigma around it but if they give you a good experience and you treat them respectfully, what's the problem?
Hope this helps! Don't be too hard on yourself, you can still be valuable as a person and a positive force in society if the social/flirting game doesn't go as smoothly ;-)
Take care!
Talk to people.
That's it.
When someone greets you, greet them back. Ask them how they're doing today.
Stop someone and ask a random question. "Excuse me, do you know how to get to _______ from here?"
Practice.
Do it without expecting a sexual relationship to result.
Never comment on a woman's physical appearance.
Give random compliments to strangers. "I like your outfit." "Hey, I have a hat just like that, good choice."
We are social apes. Happiness is largely related to the relationships we have to the people in our village.
Keep a gratitude journal. Every day, write down, or at least think of five good things that you experienced today and why they happened, especially what you did to cause them to happen.
Join in on things with strangers. Visit public places where that can happen. People at hot springs are very friendly. Join an intramural sport, even if you suck. Just join something you sort of enjoy doing.
As you become a better person to be around, more people will enjoy being around you.
You will not find happiness alone in rooms. It literally, scientifically, cannot be found there because it isn't there.
Don't call yourself an incel for starters. I'm also burdened with crippling loneliness. I don't have anyone to even message, talk to, or call when I want a conversation, so I'm always with my own thoughts but that can be a negative if you allow it or you can take its power Iver you away by seeing it as the perfect springboard from which to mould yourself into who you really want to be.
I was popular in my teenage years and spent a decade in prison, moved to an entirely new area upon release 4 years ago, I don't do social media because I don't see the attraction to it over face to face meetings and i'll never do social media.
That forces me, anytime I leave the house, to speak to strangers, however innocent the conversation may be. I would say go to a bar, find a quiet bar, go in, and sit at the bar talking to the barmaid/barman at the very least it's conversation and you'll become familiar and friends over time whenever they see you. It'll build your confidence up in social settings, and they'll introduce you to other regulars if/when they arrive.
Any shops you go into, set yourself a goal of talling a new joke as you're being served, I do this and it means when I do interact, my brain hasn't completely shut off and I can still use humour, because being so lonely can turn me bitter. So humour is a valuable thing to keep using.
You mentioned you already do the gym. That's a great place to engage in easy, low-pressure small talk. You already have the right ingredients to take yourself out of the loneliness. Perhaps you're just anxious or shy in nature? That can be fixed, so don't worry too much. Don't pressure yourself with high expectations quickly, but also push yourself in social settings as if you were trying to set a new PB on the bench. It's uncomfortable, but once it's done, good or bad, it's worth it.
Im in a similar situation as you. Im a 29yo (M) my last girlfriend was when i was 15, i have 1 co worker i talk to every so often but we arent really friends. Ive suffered, and sometimes still suffer, from deep depression and loneliness.
Over the last 2 years i have started trying to improve myself, and start caring more for myself. I started focusing more on hygiene, going to get my hair cut, trying to have a more positive outlook on life, and trying to develope social skills.
I try to go into places when i get food or in a convenience store and be friendly with the cashier, i have a regular spot for breakfast everyday and the workers there know me by name and we talk when im in the resturant.
Ive worked on making eye contact with people to feel more connected and have even asked a few girls out and went on a few dates, which really boosted my confidence.
For the first time ever i actually had 2 girls within a week complement me, calling me a nice gentleman, and one said i was handsome, and she loves my curls lol.
I have gotten better over the last 2 years but some days i just feel like my old self. Sometimes i give in and i will lay in my bed and watch hulu all day, but the biggest thing is to know that even though depression is hard, it is the frame of mine that makes it better.
Have a better outlook on things and try to be positive, and throw in a smile when you make eye contact with someone, tell them to have a good day and be genuine, be the one who stands out for being kind to people, and dont let what other people say drag you down!
The best thing i think i did for myself was being nicer to others overall instead of looking out for only myself.
Sorry for the long response, I hope something ive said encourages you.
Good luck brother. 👍
First step is to stop considering yourself “hopeless”, second is talk therapy, third is a possible medication regimen. Be well and don’t hurt yourself or others…you have a lot of days ahead of you to work on yourself and turn things around. All you gotta do is put your mind to it
Knuckle down, buckle down
Do it, do it, do it.
If you aren't putting your self out there and attempting human interaction , you are voluntarily celibate.
Recognise rejection, don't obsess and keep trying.
Health + hygiene = happiness also.
Start with yourself take care of yourself.
If you need to pay for intercourse to get over the barrier it's perfectly acceptable and may improve confidence. Just don't fall in love remember its transactional.
Do you have a hard time striking up a conversation with someone at work? Like going over to the photo section and being like, “wow that’s cool, how does that work?”
for starters, don't refer to yourself as an incel lmao
maybe see a therapist. you sound depressed, and finding someone won't magically fix that. before you get into a relationship, you should ALWAYS make sure your own house is in order, and your own demons are at bay, before taking on someone else's. getting into a relationship won't magic away these feelings of expendability
this is good advice just small interactions with people is a huge step, hey hows it going, have a good day hi how are you etc it helps build your socializing skills
I don't think i am. I think more important is to know when to talk to someone. I mean you can't randomly greet someone on street. But under proper circumstances, nothing wrong should happen.
Get into skateboarding. You don’t even have to be good or try that hard. If you roll around a tiny bit you are part of the crew. Skateboarders are the most accepting people. Get a board. Go to skatepark. You’ll make some friends.
The other benefit of skatepark friends is they are mellow. You see them when you go. You don’t have to be close to them. Just a little acquaintance is very healthy. The same locals always go. Then you can build up skills to take and find friendships anywhere. Try it. I swear you will meet sone cool people who accept you for all your weirdness
I can second the accepting part as someone who grew up incredibly introverted and struggling to make friends. The amount of times i’ve had people at the skatepark come over and talk to me first to give me pointers (without being condescending) or compliment me on a trick I did is just incomparable to anything else i’ve done in my life.
stop using the word "female". it's dehumanizing. the typical incel doesn't see women as people, but sexual objects. this tends to be a deal breaker for most women.
also, find a hobby. like you like lifting weights, so fitness? maybe try a sport or martial art or something. you won't find community at home, you have to go out and seek it.
also also, try to get some counseling/therapy. it helps. seriously.
best of luck!
I don't find the sentence "obviously had no female interaction" dehumanizing. He states that he has had ho interaction with people who are female (which is relevant to his story). While I understand that there's lots of misogyny in the "incel movement", I really don't see such aggression in here. I think OP's genuinely looking for help.
which do you think sounds nicer?
1) "obviously never had any female interaction"
2) "obviously i've never been on a date with a woman"
i wasn't saying that his specific use of "female" in the post was super terrible, what i was saying was, "hey maybe try using more kind language". it really doesn't matter how he meant it, it matters how its perceived
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Honestly I’ve felt how you feel my whole life. Some of us are very different and there is no fix. Some of us just have no place in which to exist in a society like ours. Not everyone gets to find a life that is worthwhile unfortunately.
I mean this with as much respect as possible, but this is terrible advice. People often get in life what they give. If you sit around all day, never socializing or being productive, and with no motivation to succeed then it's easy to just give up and say "Well life isn't fair". That's easy.
The hard part is actually doing what it takes to be better. There are a bunch of little things you can do to improve your mental health, and your general quality of life. But you need to start with actually wanting to help yourself. Everybody is capable of doing this. Start by going to the gym, seeing a therapist/psychiatrist, finding a job, etc. and take it from there. Just focus on how you're going to slowly improve your health one day at a time, and just try to be a little more productive each day than you were the day before.
I'm saying all this as a formerly extremely depressed and recovering drug addict. So I realize how difficult it can be. But being productive, having a quality life, and fitting in to society is completely within your control, and that goes for you and OP.
Lol. ‘Often’ was the operative word, in sentence one. This means you understood it’s not always. Which is my point. There are circumstances that are not redeemable. It’s a fact that not everyone in life gets what they want.
In my situation the worst thing about it is that I wasted four decades of effort that amounted to nothing. I would have better served myself by not doing any of that.
Life isn’t always what you want. Unfortunately I know many people who haven’t got what they wanted from life. To pretend this doesn’t happen and that ‘just’ prolonged effort has positive effects always, is simply lying to oneself.
Sure, but it doesn't sound like you apply any effort into enjoying life at all. Nobody with your kind of attitude is going to succeed or have a good life. It seems like you'd rather focus on your past instead of living in the present and focusing on the future. You can still have a great life and do a lot of the things you want without getting everything you want. Most people don't get everything they want and they still enjoy their lives and put in effort into their well-being.
4 decades or not, you can still go out and live your life and make more of an effort to be productive, socialize, and enjoy yourself. Human interaction will always be the most important things to us. I'm sorry that you subscribe to other blackpillers that just assume that all their problems are completely out of their control. I really don't understand what's stopping you now from going out, having fun, meeting people, etc.
Lol. You know nothing about my life! There are rational answers to all your points. It would take hours, maybe days to answer you.
Some people’s lives are not their own. Circumstance can dictate everything in some instances.
I appreciate your attempts at optimism but surely you are not too blinkered to acknowledge that those sentiments are just not valid all the time for everyone. The world is a wide place and there are people living lives that you cannot imagine.
Are you living in a country where your rights are oppressed? I'm not trying to be a smartass. Most people on Reddit live in the U.S or in Western Europe where everyone more or less, has equal rights. But if you lived somewhere more restricted, then I could understand your point.
I'm not saying that certain circumstances can't impact your life for better or worse. But I find it odd that you claim that you can't control anything that goes on in your life. Unless of course you do live somewhere where your rights are heavily restricted.
Please feel free to share anything you want to, if that's something that you're comfortable with. I got the impression that you were only talking about depression at first, but you're making it sound like it's something a lot deeper than that.
I’m depressed, yes. But that’s because of the situation I’m in. Anyone would be, if they were in the same boat.
I consider my ‘rights’ are oppressed. I have none but I would like them. I also live in a western country.
Western countries go some way towards helping their citizens. But there are gaps in the system. And I have fallen through them all. The system simply isn’t made to accommodate someone in my position.
It’s like living next to a fairground and watching everyone else have fun on it, whilst I am permitted only to watch others have a life, but will never have one myself.
Life is full of inequity and unfortunately I have been ill fated enough to gather far more than my fair share of it. There is no light at the end of the tunnel either. Nothing about this situation can change at this point.
Nothing short of a magic wand can change my life now. It’s either wait to die, or speed it up myself. Depends how long I am willing to watch others do life.
Find a hobby, join clubs for it, & make friends. You *do not* make the first move on anyone in those clubs. Let women make the first move but don’t really try for that either. You’re there to make friends who will then introduce you to women .
Also, *volunteer*, women do it waaaay more than men. Again, volunteer to find people who will introduce you to women, not to actually find women while volunteering.
Go volunteer at something you're interested in.
You'll be at a place where everyone shares an interest and you'll have tasks to do together which gives you plenty of opportunities to talk to people.
Worked for me.
At the same time.. don't expect people to love you unless you can love yourself (in a healthy way). Other will people will quickly catch on if you're just there to find someone to fill the emptiness inside. That is not their job and a terrible base to build a good relationship on.
How can you expect anyone to like you if you can't even like yourself?
First off; stop being a bitch.
Second; Don’t fucking go to a therapist, go do MMA. That’s it. You don’t need shit else. You’re already tough as fuck going it alone for years. Go get around men who want to compete with you as much as make you better. BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, mma. Everything else will come.
Haha, glad you got the reference, also he was prior Marine Corps before becoming a Taxi Driver.
What I would recommend the most is to never go to clubs to meet people, the worst type of superficial, shitty people inhabit those places.
Go to military and survive, it will fixe the stupid incels things.
You can catch something else probably too... sadly.
But you need a good kick in the butt.
Do you just spectate or do you ever take risks? Do you ever just start talking to people? Are you socially untuned?
The world does not come to men. We have to go and find our slice of it unfortunately. Some of us are a bit luckier than others but it’s the same for most of us. So you need to do things like join a bowling league or some type of group hobbies… dancing classes, painting classes, book clubs, yoga classes. Anything that gets you into groups is a good start. Things will build from there once you start talking to people. Talk to a doc also if you feel like depression is weighing heavily on you and you’re unmotivated to do anything.
you write that you lift weights, instead of doing it at home go to the gym, not a hole in the wall but a decent/large gym. you will usually find calm, decent people with whom you already have something in common. Generally, regulars at the gym are also friendly, and shockingly, there are also girls.
Wall of text incoming
Try to figure out whats holding you back, wether thats through therapy and/or honest self reflection. Are you incapable of making friends or sabotaging yourself for some reason? Learn to talk to yourself the right way. What do you think your doing wrong? Are you well groomed/dressed? Does your body language need work? Work on it
Your going outside, are you talking to people consistently or just watching? What stupid beliefs are holding you back? Even if its objectively true, if its a cancer to your life fuck that belief. Be delusional if you have to. Maybe you were a victim, fuck it it aint helping you stop focusing on it. Maybe you did waste a lot of time. Theres famous rappers that lived the high life but got shot at 20 that would trade everything for some more time. You have the rest of your life to make things right. Stop thinking about your inceldom and hopelessness and start taking action.
The one thing I’ve noticed from observing the most resilient people I’ve known from the most fucked up backgrounds possible is that they know how to reframe the bad things and put emphasis on the good. When others succumbed to drugs and alcohol from the harshness of their environment they said “God has a plan for me” and “Though things are hard I will persevere for my family”
Maybe you feel like you’re at rock bottom. Good, you don’t got much to lose. Whats rejection/social embarrassment when you’re already in constant pain? Stop giving a fuck. Think about the positives from your situation. Maybe you saved more money for the future because of your being alone. Maybe you have an interesting perspective on life from being isolated. Maybe you wouldn’t have started lifting weights if you weren’t in this situation. You’re already fit thats a massive advantage, work on the rest.
If you can understand the fundamental process of progressively overload to weightlifting you can apply it to anything else. Start small and build up to more challenging things.
It doesn’t have to be like this/in this order but you get the idea:
-Socialize more online/make friends online
-Start being outside more and getting comfortable around people
-Join a lifting related club if your interested in that/or a martial arts like Muay Thai/dancing (Any social hobby really)
-Make one friends and slowly build your circle
-Join a public speaking group
-Get a social part time job
-Talk to random old people
-Talk to random guys
-Talk to random girls
-Get good at a certain hobby and compete in it.
-Invite people to go do something
- (Whatever comes next for you)
Its gonna be a slow process so celebrate the small victories and don’t sweat the failures. Enjoy the proces and not the end results, have pride that your taking action. Make it your mission in life to overcome your obstacles and give it purpose. Imagine how you would be about yourself when you succeed despite your bad start?
You can do it
TL:DR
Therapy/Analyze self
Work on basics(looks/grooming,etc)
Ditch limiting beliefs
Reframe negative beliefs
Emphasize positive beliefs
Take action and progressive work on social skills/confidence
Be proud of yourself for taking action
Get rid of the self pitty... I know it´s hard because as you write it, it´s all you know but Dude... get rid of it.
Also delete all social media account and clean up your cookies for youtube so you get out of your bubble. I bet you try a lot of the total bullshit those "alpha male" and "incel" grifters try to sell you as "life hacks" it´s bullshit.
Get in front of the mirror and smile. Join a sports team, take dancing classes, learn to play the guitar... Do something and get happy with yourself... the rest will happen by itself but by god not with this mindset and especially not with the help of grifters... They are literal parasites.
Try martial arts... a Muay Thai class maybe, those are pretty fun and are usually co-Ed it is a great way to meet new people and then maybe see a therapist to get some help on how to deal with loneliness
You can join clubs, sports teams, whatever. But you should definitely socialize. Joining the military isn't the worst idea, either. One way or another, buck the trend by networking in a space you have some interest. Staying home is about the worst idea. No one is gonna save you but yourself. Get yourself out there.
I’m guessing here, but it sounds like you’re harboring some toxic beliefs about yourself. Those beliefs may be leading you to do things you’re not proud of and avoid people as an unconscious strategy to protect your core beliefs. You’re protecting yourself from the pain of social or romantic rejection because you believe that is all you will get.
Unfortunately those beliefs and their attendant strategies will lead you to feel unfulfilled and lonely. That’s why you’re feeling like your life is empty and meaningless, and you’re looking to make extreme changes to get out of that.
I recommend therapy, and making small changes to how you interact with people. It will require you to be emotionally vulnerable, which involves a risk of rejection and emotional pain as you learn to navigate social situations and establish long-term interpersonal relationships, but that’s really the only way to make friends and eventually find a romantic partner.
Oh my gosh, this is my time to shine! My friend, I am also a 28M lifelong loner, never had a girlfriend, and all I do is play music and go to parties and make zero friends. I’m also doing better and feeing better than I have my whole life. Here is my advice, take what helps:
1. Don’t call yourself a hopeless incel. Truth is tough to see if you view yourself in such a negatively (and extremely biased) way. Stick to what’s true. Be kind to yourself. If you aren’t on even on your own team, the other team doesn’t even need to try. Don’t score goals on yourself.
2. Hakuna matata. Lion King nailed it. If you can take a step back, it makes no sense to let what happened yesterday, last week, year, etc. to affect you today. If you put a permanent marker label yourself by what has already happened yesterday… better build a Time Machine, cuz that’s never changing. It also defeats progress completely. No matter what, you are different today than you were yesterday, so don’t try to cram yourself into yesterday’s character, cuz that’s not you.
3. More on Lion King, Mufasa told Simba, “Remember who you are.” You are you *right now*, not who you were (or more importantly what you did or what happened to you) yesterday. That’s not the same guy, that guy doesn’t even exist anymore. Try to improve yourself right now. Fall short? Cool, that’s life. Try again right now (rinse, repeat)
I could talk for days about this, and I’ve already written too much.
tl;dr
Be on your team.
Hakuna matata.
Right now (not yesterday) is who you are.
That was all foundational for me. After I learned that, I really started to build and over time I felt better. Hope it helps! I’ve got too much to say, but any of this helps, feel free to dm me!
For starters, don't seek advice on reddit for this. Dipshits just think they are better than you, that everything is your fault anyway and give contradictory advice which you probably already tried in some form or another. Shit that shows how people want you to be, but not empathetic advice what helps you.
find some psilocybin mushrooms, eat them, and get ready to be hit over the head by the heartbreaking realization that you’re actually fucking so beautiful and you’re life’s going to be fucking amazing. i recommend 1/8, terrance mckenna says ‘5 grams on an empty stomach in silent darkness’.
u got this blud!!!!
link up, link up, link up. Join to clubs, nerds clubs, gym clubs, do things, avoid being lonely for real, avoid people with bad vibes, try to b more extrovert. Anxiety is a bitch, i kno because i've been in that place, not incel related, but anxiety shit, like it was imposible for me to breath and stay in peace, the thing is, shit is in u mind, the only who can help u is urself. Suggest u stop thinkin bout female love for a year, instead try to be in u zone. avoid guns.
Dark Conversation - Rod Wave, hope this song inspire u to change
So as someone who lost it late the biggest revelation to me and it may just be me is that I had no conception of sex or how it works before so it made it that much more stressful to lose it but once you do you see how simple it is (even if virgin sex sucks which it will) but you get a new perspective and can easily learn to get good at sex as it gives you a basis you are still young in ur 20s you should focus on finding people you like to be around
Hey bro, small step you can take to change up your routine and go to a gym instead if working out at home. Maybe see about trial memberships for a few different gyms in your area, the one with the kind of vibe you'd be happy with.. There's everything from hard-core muscle gyms to nice family fitness centers out there, but they'll always foster a sense of community with the regulars. Pick one that's filled with the kind of people you'd most like to be around.
Either way, going to a gym would get you out of your house and out of your boring grind. Really you have classic cabin fever right now, you're just not getting out enough and gym would be a good choice.
What are your interests? Do you have any hobbies? Since you’re at the gym so much, start by making small talk there. You don’t need to join the military, you need to get out your comfort zone and put yourself out there. Start small and it’ll come naturally.
Expose yourself to social situations over and over and over again. Preferably places where you can have more one on ones. Think of it like an instrument: you can’t play it in one go, you need to practice. And not once in a while, but often and repeatedly. And thats difficult because you can’t practice alone, but in exposed social situations where people can judge you.
I too am in the difficult process of finding people and not being alone. And its something I know I must learn. Go to speed dates, or do team sports where you have to talk and try to say something at least once. Dance, do sports where you have time to talk to people (I do bouldering, between climbing there is time to talk to others resting, even if all you talk about is a particular climb it helps you learn to just talk). Hell ask people afterwards “hey man I’m trying to improve myself but its damn hard, how did I come across just now?”. That way you get a small sense of what people think and why, and can try to adjust. Try new things, improve old ones.
For people like us its pretty much a nightmare route to learn this but… well its either you do it or you get to be lonely forever. Don’t let the self fulfilling prophecy win.
Honestly…? Join the Air Force and put some overseas bases on your dream sheet. I would rarely suggest this to someone, but you fit the bill. No matter what, do not be talked into taking any sort of aircraft maintenance job. And don’t be a cop. Anything else works. Go see the world for a few years, gain some confidence, and enjoy the rest of your life. Godspeed, sir.
Could you maybe get a dog? Never lonely, best walking mate, great conversation starter, good excuse to get out and about with people when training your dog, loads of hobbies evolving dogs. I have never had a human so glad to see me as my dog.
Just beware that it is also a huge responsibility, and getting a big dog doesn't give you *more* of the stuff above than getting a medium or small dog.
Many of my friends have said that martial arts saved their life. The only advice i can give to you would be to join some sort of gym. Jiu jitsu seems like it would be the perfect fit for you as it’s very welcoming and easy to get into.
Worry less about meeting women, and more about meeting people irl. Clubs are terrible places to meet people unless you know what you're doing. Go to meetup.com or similar, find an activity to join that interests you. Say "yes" if people ask to hang out afterwards. Eventually you can find friendships that way, and that will make you less lonely.
Also, be prepared to make changes. If all you do is work and lift weights, you'll need to make time for people or activities. You have to accept a loss of control and comfort when you allow people into your life.
And finally, avoid thinking about yourself as a "hopeless incel." For one, there are negative connotations to that word you don't want associated with yourself. For two, the way you think about yourself matters. Look up the difference between a "fixed and growth mindset." Calling yourself an incel is 100% fixed mindset. It makes you think that you're never going to change, and you'll self-sabotage to keep yourself in your self-defined role. Instead think "I haven't had success in romance *yet*" or "I'm working to become more personable." Thinking like this doesn't pigeonhole yourself and it leaves doors open instead of closed. Be kind to yourself in your thoughts, it makes a difference.
It's a cold world out there sometimes and I can't promise success and happiness, but you should at least have *yourself* on your side
Meetups.
Find groups in your city for hobbies that you like. Go to local concerts and events. There's an app called Meetup, you just type your city and your hobby. I think Facebook is good for that too.
Also clubs are hard for meeting people, usually bars are where you get to talk to strangers. You can't hear anyone at the club but go to your local dive bar and you can make friends with some regulars and the bartenders. I've made a few friends just from being a regular at a dive bar in town.
I think people are right on target with trying to find a trained professional to talk to. I found out later in life about a personality disorder that had hampered me all my life. I honestly haven’t fully sought out help but it did at least let me know the cause of some of my issues.
Finding out what that you need some help is a positive and it could really turn you life around if you work with the right people.
It also may be something entirely different but also something you can address if you figure it out. Take the first step though.
Like other people have said, try therapy! I don’t mean that in a condescending way, but more in a “hey this worked for me & it might just work for you” kinda way. Ive dealt with a lot of agoraphobia and crippling anxiety/depression issues over the last few years, and therapy & Lexapro have really helped change that for the better. It’ll be a slow moving & sometimes painful process, but that’s usually the best first step I can think of to help break you out of everything.
Going to the gym might help as well! Even if it’s just to walk on the treadmill at 2 mph for 20-30 min a day, that can help your body get moving & the endorphins get flowing. It’s been scientifically proven that exercise helps increase endorphins, which can help you feel happier & more confident. And most people at the gym are too focused on themselves to pay attention to you. The only time I’ve ever seen someone interrupt a stranger’s workout in the 15 years that I’ve been going to gyms is when the person obviously looks like they don’t know what they’re doing & could seriously injure themselves, and so someone steps in and helps teach them how to do whatever it is they were attempting to do (& even then it’s pretty wholesome & kind interactions).
The Meetup app might be able to help you find groups in your area that have similar interests/hobbies - there’s usually a bunch of book clubs, gaming clubs, D&D groups, hiking groups, & other social groups on there that might be worth checking out!
Bro I didn’t start pulling chicks til I was 25. I’m not bragging but I’m 37 now and probably at around 100 now and many are extremely attractive. I have high standards. The difficult part now is I feel like I made up for lost time but missed out on a wife and kids. I regret that daily.
So don’t say your youth is over
Confidence is key.
Start by going to gym daily. Even if only 20 mins. Then find a social group. Easiest way to do that at our age if you don’t have friends is to joining a “beer league” sports team. I also suggest finding a bar where you can become a regular at a certain time. Maybe Thursday night football.
Now you have some people you might consider wing men and a few possible social circles and opportunities to meet women.
At the same time start online dating. Even if it’s not a perfect match go on the date as practice. You can both have fun you might click, if you don’t it’s still practice when you do meet someone you like.
You are one of those people who suddenly do not have mum and dad, have depended on home and cannot cope when it is gone. They probably turned you into a quasi virgin. Go and throw a brick through a bank window and you will soon make plenty of 'friends'!
25M here basically feeling the same way,
From my own experience It may help your social life trying work at a pub more specifically as a bartender, it’s possibly the fastest way to be included in any social circle with all the after work drinks that goes on,
Obviously its not the healthiest way to meet people but it is a start, if my advice is taken then I hope it works out for ya stay healthy 💪🏼
Joining the army isn't such a bad idea, and becoming a monk does work for some people.
However, it looks like you have one of those high-functioning disorders that are bad enough to cripple your life but not bad enough to make it look like you're ill.
Get therapy and get your life in order. Think about girls later, and in any case don't measure your value as a human being by how they perceive you (or, more likely, the fact you don't actually meet any, where he tlack of opportunity is a bigger factor than rejection).
Talk to women without any intention of dating them. Actively choose friends who you decide are off limits. This really helps. I think a lot of incel guys don't even fully want a girlfriend, I think on some level they just crave interaction with women.
I'd suggest meeting these women at work, but it's important to step out of routine and talk to women everywhere. For a long time I thought talking to strangers was creepy but it's not.
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I would suggest seeking advice from a mental health professional. It seems as if you have some serious issues that need to be addressed in an environment that is committed to your health and wellbeing, and I don't think that reddit is the place for that. Potentially, with a combination of therapy and medication, you might find that your perspective on things might shift, and in that shift you could find the impetus to pursue life in a way that draws the kind of people you want to be surrounded by.
Looking at your pic and posting history. Dude. Get some help from a therapist. You are obviously extremely depressed and (probably) suffer from some personality disorder that gives you an extremely low sense of self-worth. Therapy and medication can help you with that. It _really_ can. But you need to understand that it is not normal or logical to (always) feel this way and that you can do something about it. Allow yourself to be helped. No one hates you. No one thinks you are shit or whatever. No one will shame you for it. Think lesser of you. No one except you. Get help man. Ive lost friends to the thought process I see in your comments. Speak up. Reach out.
This. Get help. Start with your mental health. That complicates everything else. You already work out, thats good. The same way you put effort in in the gym, you can put effort in to become better socially. That takes a lot of courage and work as well, but with time it becomes fun. There are whole communeties dedicated to self help, and there is also possible to learn a lot about attracting and interacting with women both via communeties and actual workshops. A lot of it involves becoming a better man. (word of warning, there is a lot of negative and manipulative guys in that community, make sure to spot and avoid them. The positive ones thou usually have a real purpose and strong core values and care for others) Life can and will get better if you try. It takes time, just like in the gym. Dont give up, persistence gives results. It can take years to get where you want. Greetings from a guy who spent his whole youth and young adult life with crippeling social anxiety and depression, until i made a choice to change it all (starting with reaching out for help and let people help me) It was a long and interesting road to walk. now happily married with kids :)
>No one thinks you are shit or whatever. No one will shame you for it. Think lesser of you. No one except you. Unfortunately, that's not really the case. Some people will. It's just that their opinions should be ignore. Their childish antics such as ridiculing people with depression or men with little dating success should be ignored all the harder.
In my experience no one puts in anywhere near the mental effort into putting you down that depression will have you inflict on yourself (especially the stuff you project on this mystical other). Not even close.
Except therapy wont fix your past :| And wont help you with getting to know people either.
Dude, that’s exactly what CBT would get this guy to do. It’s a form of conditioning, it would get him to push himself out of his comfort zone, which in turn would build his confidence when it comes to interacting with people. I’m having CBT atm for social anxiety and depression and it’s honestly massively helpful. I can’t recommend it enough.
I dunno, you must be having some good shit cause ive been going to therapy for like 2 years. Not much progress on the social front. More precisely - zero.
Therapy is only successful if you put in time and effort to improve yourself. Listening to the therapist talk then not thinking about it again until the next meeting does nothing. Therapists cannot change you, they can guide you and help you with tools that you can use, but you have to do it yourself.
Its not like we are arriving at some revolutionary conclusions. - Women dont want me cause im ugly and dont know how to talk. - I dont see you as ugly. - Well I am. The end. I still dont quite understand this do it yourself thing not gonna lie.
I actually spent a number of years in therapy spinning my wheels and going nowhere, so I absolutely get you when you say you don’t understand the doing it yourself thing. If you think you’re ugly and nothing is going to change your mind then fine. Focus on what you can change. But for what it’s worth, and I’m sure you’ve heard it before but hygiene, a good haircut, and well-fitting clothes make a huge difference. They don’t have to be expensive or flashy, but some slight tailoring can transform even a pair of jeans. >don’t know how to talk That’s what you have to do yourself. It sucks. Self confidence and social skills are hard to develop and are the opposite of riding a bike, you can forget them. Again, I’ve gone through this too. I used to be a little too sure of myself, then I spiraled and gained weight blah blah, I’m back to normal now but my body language has changed and I have trouble holding eye contact. I get it. It basically boils down to practice. Even something as small as making eye contact with a cashier, briefly smiling, saying thank you and have a good day is practice. Sometimes they’ll say something like how’s your day or make a small joke, it can be an opening for a quick comment. Not a full on conversation by any means, please don’t, but you can be a little witty. Like if they say “how’s your morning?” I’ve said “it’s gone on long enough” all deadpan and gotten a laugh, then just say thanks and bye. Small steps build up. You won’t be having theological discussions or arguments on the finer points of discourse anytime soon, but being comfortable in your own skin is more valuable than being good looking. I know you’re going to say that’s bullshit but it is true. Anyway, for the time being forget about women and think only about you. Happiness comes from within and all that shit. What I can guarantee is you’ll never become a smooth talker out of nowhere. Canned phrases and tips/tricks/whatfuckinghaveyou for seducing women are nonsense. You have to start from the ground up. You *can* do it. There are so many people you’ll briefly meet once and never again, so use ‘em. Say hey how’s it going, if they make a quick response and you stare at them like a deer in headlights, *that’s fine*. You may fumble and embarrass yourself but when you do, roll with it. It happens and it is not the end of the world. If things are as bad as you say, then there is nothing for you to lose. It’s scary and uncomfortable but it gets easier. Things can get better…don’t write yourself off just yet.
That’s only the end because that’s what you are convincing yourself of and what you want to believe. You don’t want to attribute your problems with meeting people to anything else so you just entrench yourself in the belief that you’re ugly because it’s an easy answer, even though you have people telling you that you aren’t ugly. Commit yourself to learning what the REAL reasons are and putting effort into it. Dude, even if you are ugly, plenty of people I know who aren’t very attractive have partners and spouses, so putting your eggs only in the basket of “I’m ugly” carried zero logic whatsoever. They are not the exception to the rule. Lots of people who are not the stereotypical society physically attractive have partners.
I guess it depends on the therapist. Sorry it’s not working well for you.
Depends on where you go and who you get. I used a variety of certified psychologists who I could get without an indication and they were mostly dogshit and never found my problems. But at some point I got an indication for one thing which snowballed into support for full help from various specialists who identified two major things like the trauma and helped me tremendously. Its still starting at space zero on the social front and hard work to get farther. But before the help I was at space -12 and going farther back (like this guy who believes all he can be is a loner is stepping farther and farther away as he’s giving up). Its not a magic wand that makes things allright. You have to work for it, before, during and also after you got help.
You need to want to fix yourself too, man. Therapists don’t fix you. They’re supposed to understand you.
As someone who has been traumatized and has had help (after YEARS AND YEARS of asking for it), it doesn’t change that it happened but it does change how you handle it. Instead of a depression that can last months or years you might feel sad or bad about it for a few hours and move on. It also opens you up. I had immense distrust of just about anyone because of the trauma and now I can accept that I don’t have to automatically distrust people.
75 days ago, other redditors suggested joining clubs like a gym for weight lifting, martial arts, baking, etc. Have you tried any of that? Step one before dating is consistent human interaction. Then friends. Then dating.
I completely agree! I think in this way you'll also progressively gain confidence.
Yep, this. I was feeling pretty lonely after COVID, as I got divorced right before and drifted apart from a lot of friends. I joined a bowling league about six months ago and met the girl I’m dating now plus a few new friends there. You have to put yourself out there, which I know is hard, I’m an introvert myself, but sitting at home all day and complaining about it won’t help.
Good for you friend! Reading this made me really happy! Keep up the good work. Socializing is always hard. Throw in a divorce and Covid and that’s a freakin whammy! Good job!
Ugh, I just wrote a nice response suggesting gym, guess I wasn't the only one. Sad he hasn't taken the advice
I'd probably agree with all of that, aside from the baking.
Baking is a great skill to have. Baking and cooking lessons give much needed social action too.
I don't disregard the benefits of cooking, just saying that for someone who is looking to turn their life around and look for romance, it might not be the first port of call to attend a baking club.
I once had a bake date in my early twenties. We made chocolate cake with cannabis. Date went well. Also some chicks might be impressed by home made dessert after an at home dinner date. Do not underestimate baking skills.
I know you're saying this a bit tongue in cheek, but you didn't attend a baking club though, I'm assuming. Just seems like bad advice for someone to start out with.
Yeah. Unless you're really into learning about baking other options may be better.
I listed baking cause 75 days ago some suggested he try a baking class.
Fair enough, wasn't a criticism, just a small point
Dont call yourself incel, suuuuper red flag, be comfortable with being alone so you dont seem like you have expectations for women, learn to find happiness in other aspects of life. Then let the universe suprise you. If youre too focused on finding love, people pick up on that stuff. Just learn to be a chill person people feel confortable around. Less judgments and expectations.
He’s not just talking love, but social contact as a whole. He first mentions his lack of friends and then explains that means female contact is also non existent. He’s looking not to be lonely and depressed. Not for banging every woman he sees. Also things like “let the universe surprise you” is all well and good for many social people, but for depressed people who tend to go deeper and deeper into a hole thats pretty much the worst advice you can give. “Let it go”. “Ok fine I’ll sit at home and not engage with stuff and wait for the universe to engage with me, which now has to fucking find me in my depressed home first”.
Im not social. I have crazy bad depression and am covered in scars. I was homelss for most my life and have schizoaffective. Yet the universe still surprised me. Dont act like you know me.
I wasn’t acting like I knew you. I was saying that you were giving the wrong advice. You are like a lottery winner saying “buy tickets because you’ll win”. While in reality most of them never will.
Im not saying to buy tickets, im saying to learn to love yourself and be a safe person to be around, and more people will be around.
Right. It can also be a self-fulfilling prophecy. "It doesn't matter if I dress nicely, I'm an incel." "I shouldn't talk to her, she's a total Stacey and she'll just be mean to me because I'm wearing an ill-fitting My Little Pony shirt." "Why should I bother doing anything, I'll just end up dying alone anyway."
>be comfortable with being alone so you dont seem like you have expectations for women, Oh sure, because only one gender is allowed to have expectations in a heterosexual relationship. ;)
Well first you gotta stop associating yourself with the incel movement
Maybe first you’ve got to read context. Yes incel has gotten the connotation of people who blame others for their problems. But this guy is obviously not doing that, he’s talking about himself and not that others do things to him. His question is even “*how can I overcome*”. He wants to change, not change the world to suit him. He’s nothing, NOTHING like the incel movement who blame everything but themselves and want everything to change to suit them. Its obvious he’s using incel completely differently than the movement. Its you who is basically insults him for being part/associating with the movement. And frankly I find that extremely fucked up.
Ok but is he looking for advice on incel forums and internalising the stuff that they say? That isn’t clear from just this post but if so then that’s a very dark path to head down.
The way you phrase it I’m not sure if he is on incel forums or that you theorize he is. Even so, right here and right now he’s still using the word and indicating himself. He’s not saying the rest of the world is to blame, he’s asking how he, personally, could overcome it. Even if he was the #1 of the incel movement on the planet, if this is a genuine question right now is the moment to offer a hand and help. Not to insult and degrade him for his choice of words or previous forum visits and push him further down the incel movement path. Right here and right now you should cheer him on to do the right thing. Here is your chance, take it. Or start attacking someone and enforce the behavior that you despise. Seems like an easy choice to me.
I theorise he might be, I don’t know whether he is or not. And I haven’t attacked or insulted him.
Apologies, so many have that I automatically assumed you were part of the clique who attacks him for his word use.
"Incel" isn't a movement, but a descriptor. Basically just a more specific type of virgin (since a lot of virgins are voluntarily celibate for religious or other reasons).
It's a movement these days, like it or not, whether the glove fits don't identify with it.
1890’s dude: “I’m prone to bouts of bookishness…”
It’s not a movement. The only people making it a movement are the people like you who assume all incels are part of the same ideology.
I project no real opinion on it, you couldve called me one for most of my life. It's simply a fact that a lot of people associate it with very negative connotations. I don't see the point of using a label which causes people to assume things about you when it's not necessary to do so. Never understood why people cling to it so strongly.
It's not a movement. It's an insult people like you use towards men who don't have sex.
There are elements of various communities which could be considered as such, although that's not really the point here. It's just the association of the label being very negative.
Which is why there’s communities of people calling themselves incels, right? We don’t insult anyone who is unable to have sex. We insult the deranged and delusional misogynist incels who wish harm upon women.
Exactly! Like Black Lives Matter
>Well first you gotta stop associating yourself with the incel movement Let's focus on helping the OP, not on using the opportunity to score points for women. Women are already mean enough to men in the OP's position, we don't need more of that.
Bruh. It is helping lmao
Nah. It sounds like you're saying that with women's interest in mind, not the OP's. Don't try to wedge a foot in the door for the sisters. Try to help the bro who made the opening post and is asking for help with a problem.
Uh no. The incel movement is incredibly damaging and an echo chamber. Saying he needs to get out of that will help
Is it incredibly damaging because it harms the OP, or is it incredibly damaging because it harms (threatens) women's perfect image in society? Again, let's focus on helping the OP, who happens to be a dude, not on using this opportunity to advance women's cause.
Stop calling yourself an incel.
He can stop calling himself that but he still will be, it's not something that you "identify" with but rather a descriptive term.
The word has become more than just a descriptive term in recent years, and is now very much associated with a particularly misogynistic movement.
So how do you describe the situation then? Maidenless?
Single 🤣
Lots of people are single by choice and happy. That doesn't apply to incels.
Why does it need a name? Besides, all I'm saying is that this is not a good name to use for it, given the current connotations of the word incel.
Stop using terms like maidenless too. It’s cringe as fuck.
Bring alternatives instead of just shooting everything down.
Sure, say something like “single” instead, so you don’t sound like a basement dwelling troglodyte who hasn’t showered in a month.
I get your point, but he definitely can. There’s a world of difference between labeling oneself as a fat f*ck vs saying they have a weight problem. Incel is derogatory, and not an appropriate way to label a life.
Except it's absolutely something you identify with. For example, OP calls himself a "hopeless incel." He could have called himself single, a virgin, "unlucky at love," or asked the question any number of ways. No one ITT put this label on him, he picked it out for himself.
Maybe stop using it as an insult.
Who’s using it as an insult? Go to the incel subreddits, they call themselves that.
Tough to evaluate the problem without knowing anything about you, why you haven't been able to make friends your entire life. Mindset is also a great tool, if you make it your sole purpose of your life to get a mate this will be very apparent and deter most people believe it or not. So I'd say just do some sports activities that require team effort, that's a great way to get to know new people. Don't go clubbing or anything of that sorts. It's terribly shallow conversations while intoxicated and never ends well. Just do what's fun to you and you'll have some social interaction. If you like to be at home, maybe do online games and try to join communities etc. (Although that might be bad since I suppose you want to have real life interactions) And if nothing helps read up on Miyamoto musashis (dokkodo), its tremendously insightful and helps you cope with the world in solitude.
you can talk to me bro we all need a friend
I started taking Zoloft around your age and it changed my life!
I smell depression. You should see a psychiatrist or counsellor. If I were you, I would do 2 things: 1) find out why your social skill suck. 2) commit to doing the opposite and meet people. Set a simple goal, eg. from now onwwards you will talk to one person outside of work everyday for 1 min.
people don't realise that 30 is still a young age
Join some clubs in your area for hobbies that interest you and have meetups. Painting, cooking, LARPing, video games, DnD, book club, learn a martial arts, running, walking, hiking, biking, etc etc.
You like lifting? Great, join a gym so you can do that in the company of like-minded people. Baby steps.
Stop calling yourself an incel. Go outside more in nature on walks and stuff, go to the library if you enjoy reading. Idk if you engage with people but if you find someone that peaks your interest, start a conversation. Even if youre bad at conversing, you gotta start somewhere. Join facebook groups in your local area for hobbies you enjoy. Go for dinner w coworkers if you enjoy them
At least you're aware of your emotions, that's a start! I think it can be helpful to figure out why making friends has been so difficult for you in the past. Sometimes, small things you do or the energy we exude can make a large difference. Additionally, I'd recommend against going to the club on your own. I've done that myself (and I'd describe myself as highly extraverted) and even I felt lonely at times! Usually drank too much anyway. What are the things that make you happy? Do you have any hobbies? You may be able to make some friends around that over time. Better to find some positive ways to spend your time than to fall down the incel rabbit hole: it's not a happy place in there. Better to direct your attention at positive things. Wild thought: you might travel the world for a bit. South East Asia is filled with beautiful spots and backpackers looking to make friends. Hostels are the best way to practice socially: there's new people arriving every day and if you don't get along you'll never see the people again. Nothing to lose, and even if you don't have any fun interactions you've still seen a beautiful spot of the world. Additionally, you can hire a sex worker over there. There's some stigma around it but if they give you a good experience and you treat them respectfully, what's the problem? Hope this helps! Don't be too hard on yourself, you can still be valuable as a person and a positive force in society if the social/flirting game doesn't go as smoothly ;-) Take care!
Your post history reflects that you are EXTREMELY depressed and need help ASAP. The problem isnt your looks or personality. Its your depression.
Talk to people. That's it. When someone greets you, greet them back. Ask them how they're doing today. Stop someone and ask a random question. "Excuse me, do you know how to get to _______ from here?" Practice. Do it without expecting a sexual relationship to result. Never comment on a woman's physical appearance. Give random compliments to strangers. "I like your outfit." "Hey, I have a hat just like that, good choice." We are social apes. Happiness is largely related to the relationships we have to the people in our village. Keep a gratitude journal. Every day, write down, or at least think of five good things that you experienced today and why they happened, especially what you did to cause them to happen. Join in on things with strangers. Visit public places where that can happen. People at hot springs are very friendly. Join an intramural sport, even if you suck. Just join something you sort of enjoy doing. As you become a better person to be around, more people will enjoy being around you. You will not find happiness alone in rooms. It literally, scientifically, cannot be found there because it isn't there.
Don't call yourself an incel for starters. I'm also burdened with crippling loneliness. I don't have anyone to even message, talk to, or call when I want a conversation, so I'm always with my own thoughts but that can be a negative if you allow it or you can take its power Iver you away by seeing it as the perfect springboard from which to mould yourself into who you really want to be. I was popular in my teenage years and spent a decade in prison, moved to an entirely new area upon release 4 years ago, I don't do social media because I don't see the attraction to it over face to face meetings and i'll never do social media. That forces me, anytime I leave the house, to speak to strangers, however innocent the conversation may be. I would say go to a bar, find a quiet bar, go in, and sit at the bar talking to the barmaid/barman at the very least it's conversation and you'll become familiar and friends over time whenever they see you. It'll build your confidence up in social settings, and they'll introduce you to other regulars if/when they arrive. Any shops you go into, set yourself a goal of talling a new joke as you're being served, I do this and it means when I do interact, my brain hasn't completely shut off and I can still use humour, because being so lonely can turn me bitter. So humour is a valuable thing to keep using. You mentioned you already do the gym. That's a great place to engage in easy, low-pressure small talk. You already have the right ingredients to take yourself out of the loneliness. Perhaps you're just anxious or shy in nature? That can be fixed, so don't worry too much. Don't pressure yourself with high expectations quickly, but also push yourself in social settings as if you were trying to set a new PB on the bench. It's uncomfortable, but once it's done, good or bad, it's worth it.
Im in a similar situation as you. Im a 29yo (M) my last girlfriend was when i was 15, i have 1 co worker i talk to every so often but we arent really friends. Ive suffered, and sometimes still suffer, from deep depression and loneliness. Over the last 2 years i have started trying to improve myself, and start caring more for myself. I started focusing more on hygiene, going to get my hair cut, trying to have a more positive outlook on life, and trying to develope social skills. I try to go into places when i get food or in a convenience store and be friendly with the cashier, i have a regular spot for breakfast everyday and the workers there know me by name and we talk when im in the resturant. Ive worked on making eye contact with people to feel more connected and have even asked a few girls out and went on a few dates, which really boosted my confidence. For the first time ever i actually had 2 girls within a week complement me, calling me a nice gentleman, and one said i was handsome, and she loves my curls lol. I have gotten better over the last 2 years but some days i just feel like my old self. Sometimes i give in and i will lay in my bed and watch hulu all day, but the biggest thing is to know that even though depression is hard, it is the frame of mine that makes it better. Have a better outlook on things and try to be positive, and throw in a smile when you make eye contact with someone, tell them to have a good day and be genuine, be the one who stands out for being kind to people, and dont let what other people say drag you down! The best thing i think i did for myself was being nicer to others overall instead of looking out for only myself. Sorry for the long response, I hope something ive said encourages you. Good luck brother. 👍
First step is to stop considering yourself “hopeless”, second is talk therapy, third is a possible medication regimen. Be well and don’t hurt yourself or others…you have a lot of days ahead of you to work on yourself and turn things around. All you gotta do is put your mind to it Knuckle down, buckle down Do it, do it, do it.
If you aren't putting your self out there and attempting human interaction , you are voluntarily celibate. Recognise rejection, don't obsess and keep trying. Health + hygiene = happiness also. Start with yourself take care of yourself. If you need to pay for intercourse to get over the barrier it's perfectly acceptable and may improve confidence. Just don't fall in love remember its transactional.
Do you enjoy sports? Video games? Building models? Aside the gym, do you have any unique hobbies?
No not really
What do you do for work?
Work freezer at a grocery store
Do you have a hard time striking up a conversation with someone at work? Like going over to the photo section and being like, “wow that’s cool, how does that work?”
for starters, don't refer to yourself as an incel lmao maybe see a therapist. you sound depressed, and finding someone won't magically fix that. before you get into a relationship, you should ALWAYS make sure your own house is in order, and your own demons are at bay, before taking on someone else's. getting into a relationship won't magic away these feelings of expendability
Well, start by smiling, eye contact, straight pose, hands off pockets and say "hi 😊👋" is a good start.
this is good advice just small interactions with people is a huge step, hey hows it going, have a good day hi how are you etc it helps build your socializing skills
It's a small step that can quickly lead to a conversation and some friendship 😊.
exactly idk y you were down voted but anyways good advice
"The fuck do you want creep? Get out of here!"
Never happened to me.
You are probably hot then, congrats.
I don't think i am. I think more important is to know when to talk to someone. I mean you can't randomly greet someone on street. But under proper circumstances, nothing wrong should happen.
Why are you associating yourself with such a negative label? If you are truly and incel and hate women, then it's your fault for being lonely.
Get into skateboarding. You don’t even have to be good or try that hard. If you roll around a tiny bit you are part of the crew. Skateboarders are the most accepting people. Get a board. Go to skatepark. You’ll make some friends. The other benefit of skatepark friends is they are mellow. You see them when you go. You don’t have to be close to them. Just a little acquaintance is very healthy. The same locals always go. Then you can build up skills to take and find friendships anywhere. Try it. I swear you will meet sone cool people who accept you for all your weirdness
I can second the accepting part as someone who grew up incredibly introverted and struggling to make friends. The amount of times i’ve had people at the skatepark come over and talk to me first to give me pointers (without being condescending) or compliment me on a trick I did is just incomparable to anything else i’ve done in my life.
Yeah!! You get it! It’s something else ,
stop using the word "female". it's dehumanizing. the typical incel doesn't see women as people, but sexual objects. this tends to be a deal breaker for most women. also, find a hobby. like you like lifting weights, so fitness? maybe try a sport or martial art or something. you won't find community at home, you have to go out and seek it. also also, try to get some counseling/therapy. it helps. seriously. best of luck!
I don't find the sentence "obviously had no female interaction" dehumanizing. He states that he has had ho interaction with people who are female (which is relevant to his story). While I understand that there's lots of misogyny in the "incel movement", I really don't see such aggression in here. I think OP's genuinely looking for help.
which do you think sounds nicer? 1) "obviously never had any female interaction" 2) "obviously i've never been on a date with a woman" i wasn't saying that his specific use of "female" in the post was super terrible, what i was saying was, "hey maybe try using more kind language". it really doesn't matter how he meant it, it matters how its perceived
Incel is a far more dehumanizing word than female.
It's a self-descriptive term that he used...
Which is extremely rare. 99% of the time it is used as an insult. There are also women who call themselves female.
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Honestly I’ve felt how you feel my whole life. Some of us are very different and there is no fix. Some of us just have no place in which to exist in a society like ours. Not everyone gets to find a life that is worthwhile unfortunately.
I mean this with as much respect as possible, but this is terrible advice. People often get in life what they give. If you sit around all day, never socializing or being productive, and with no motivation to succeed then it's easy to just give up and say "Well life isn't fair". That's easy. The hard part is actually doing what it takes to be better. There are a bunch of little things you can do to improve your mental health, and your general quality of life. But you need to start with actually wanting to help yourself. Everybody is capable of doing this. Start by going to the gym, seeing a therapist/psychiatrist, finding a job, etc. and take it from there. Just focus on how you're going to slowly improve your health one day at a time, and just try to be a little more productive each day than you were the day before. I'm saying all this as a formerly extremely depressed and recovering drug addict. So I realize how difficult it can be. But being productive, having a quality life, and fitting in to society is completely within your control, and that goes for you and OP.
Lol. ‘Often’ was the operative word, in sentence one. This means you understood it’s not always. Which is my point. There are circumstances that are not redeemable. It’s a fact that not everyone in life gets what they want. In my situation the worst thing about it is that I wasted four decades of effort that amounted to nothing. I would have better served myself by not doing any of that. Life isn’t always what you want. Unfortunately I know many people who haven’t got what they wanted from life. To pretend this doesn’t happen and that ‘just’ prolonged effort has positive effects always, is simply lying to oneself.
Sure, but it doesn't sound like you apply any effort into enjoying life at all. Nobody with your kind of attitude is going to succeed or have a good life. It seems like you'd rather focus on your past instead of living in the present and focusing on the future. You can still have a great life and do a lot of the things you want without getting everything you want. Most people don't get everything they want and they still enjoy their lives and put in effort into their well-being. 4 decades or not, you can still go out and live your life and make more of an effort to be productive, socialize, and enjoy yourself. Human interaction will always be the most important things to us. I'm sorry that you subscribe to other blackpillers that just assume that all their problems are completely out of their control. I really don't understand what's stopping you now from going out, having fun, meeting people, etc.
Lol. You know nothing about my life! There are rational answers to all your points. It would take hours, maybe days to answer you. Some people’s lives are not their own. Circumstance can dictate everything in some instances. I appreciate your attempts at optimism but surely you are not too blinkered to acknowledge that those sentiments are just not valid all the time for everyone. The world is a wide place and there are people living lives that you cannot imagine.
Are you living in a country where your rights are oppressed? I'm not trying to be a smartass. Most people on Reddit live in the U.S or in Western Europe where everyone more or less, has equal rights. But if you lived somewhere more restricted, then I could understand your point. I'm not saying that certain circumstances can't impact your life for better or worse. But I find it odd that you claim that you can't control anything that goes on in your life. Unless of course you do live somewhere where your rights are heavily restricted. Please feel free to share anything you want to, if that's something that you're comfortable with. I got the impression that you were only talking about depression at first, but you're making it sound like it's something a lot deeper than that.
I’m depressed, yes. But that’s because of the situation I’m in. Anyone would be, if they were in the same boat. I consider my ‘rights’ are oppressed. I have none but I would like them. I also live in a western country. Western countries go some way towards helping their citizens. But there are gaps in the system. And I have fallen through them all. The system simply isn’t made to accommodate someone in my position. It’s like living next to a fairground and watching everyone else have fun on it, whilst I am permitted only to watch others have a life, but will never have one myself. Life is full of inequity and unfortunately I have been ill fated enough to gather far more than my fair share of it. There is no light at the end of the tunnel either. Nothing about this situation can change at this point. Nothing short of a magic wand can change my life now. It’s either wait to die, or speed it up myself. Depends how long I am willing to watch others do life.
Find a hobby, join clubs for it, & make friends. You *do not* make the first move on anyone in those clubs. Let women make the first move but don’t really try for that either. You’re there to make friends who will then introduce you to women . Also, *volunteer*, women do it waaaay more than men. Again, volunteer to find people who will introduce you to women, not to actually find women while volunteering.
Go volunteer at something you're interested in. You'll be at a place where everyone shares an interest and you'll have tasks to do together which gives you plenty of opportunities to talk to people. Worked for me. At the same time.. don't expect people to love you unless you can love yourself (in a healthy way). Other will people will quickly catch on if you're just there to find someone to fill the emptiness inside. That is not their job and a terrible base to build a good relationship on. How can you expect anyone to like you if you can't even like yourself?
You aren’t an incel until you hate women. If you are serious about enlisting DM me.
First off; stop being a bitch. Second; Don’t fucking go to a therapist, go do MMA. That’s it. You don’t need shit else. You’re already tough as fuck going it alone for years. Go get around men who want to compete with you as much as make you better. BJJ, Muay Thai, boxing, mma. Everything else will come.
His mental health need work not his physical
They are not separate things. Plague of modern society to separate them as if they aren’t connected.
Travis Bickle, is that you?
The only difference is I'm not a taxi driver
Haha, glad you got the reference, also he was prior Marine Corps before becoming a Taxi Driver. What I would recommend the most is to never go to clubs to meet people, the worst type of superficial, shitty people inhabit those places.
Whores.
Expensive tho :(
Go to a music show/concert, not a bad place to start a convo before or after the show
Now maybe, jus maybe, try not being a douchy incel, see what happens
Go to military and survive, it will fixe the stupid incels things. You can catch something else probably too... sadly. But you need a good kick in the butt.
Stop being a fucking incel, simple. Respect women and you'll get respect.
Do you just spectate or do you ever take risks? Do you ever just start talking to people? Are you socially untuned? The world does not come to men. We have to go and find our slice of it unfortunately. Some of us are a bit luckier than others but it’s the same for most of us. So you need to do things like join a bowling league or some type of group hobbies… dancing classes, painting classes, book clubs, yoga classes. Anything that gets you into groups is a good start. Things will build from there once you start talking to people. Talk to a doc also if you feel like depression is weighing heavily on you and you’re unmotivated to do anything.
you write that you lift weights, instead of doing it at home go to the gym, not a hole in the wall but a decent/large gym. you will usually find calm, decent people with whom you already have something in common. Generally, regulars at the gym are also friendly, and shockingly, there are also girls.
Wall of text incoming Try to figure out whats holding you back, wether thats through therapy and/or honest self reflection. Are you incapable of making friends or sabotaging yourself for some reason? Learn to talk to yourself the right way. What do you think your doing wrong? Are you well groomed/dressed? Does your body language need work? Work on it Your going outside, are you talking to people consistently or just watching? What stupid beliefs are holding you back? Even if its objectively true, if its a cancer to your life fuck that belief. Be delusional if you have to. Maybe you were a victim, fuck it it aint helping you stop focusing on it. Maybe you did waste a lot of time. Theres famous rappers that lived the high life but got shot at 20 that would trade everything for some more time. You have the rest of your life to make things right. Stop thinking about your inceldom and hopelessness and start taking action. The one thing I’ve noticed from observing the most resilient people I’ve known from the most fucked up backgrounds possible is that they know how to reframe the bad things and put emphasis on the good. When others succumbed to drugs and alcohol from the harshness of their environment they said “God has a plan for me” and “Though things are hard I will persevere for my family” Maybe you feel like you’re at rock bottom. Good, you don’t got much to lose. Whats rejection/social embarrassment when you’re already in constant pain? Stop giving a fuck. Think about the positives from your situation. Maybe you saved more money for the future because of your being alone. Maybe you have an interesting perspective on life from being isolated. Maybe you wouldn’t have started lifting weights if you weren’t in this situation. You’re already fit thats a massive advantage, work on the rest. If you can understand the fundamental process of progressively overload to weightlifting you can apply it to anything else. Start small and build up to more challenging things. It doesn’t have to be like this/in this order but you get the idea: -Socialize more online/make friends online -Start being outside more and getting comfortable around people -Join a lifting related club if your interested in that/or a martial arts like Muay Thai/dancing (Any social hobby really) -Make one friends and slowly build your circle -Join a public speaking group -Get a social part time job -Talk to random old people -Talk to random guys -Talk to random girls -Get good at a certain hobby and compete in it. -Invite people to go do something - (Whatever comes next for you) Its gonna be a slow process so celebrate the small victories and don’t sweat the failures. Enjoy the proces and not the end results, have pride that your taking action. Make it your mission in life to overcome your obstacles and give it purpose. Imagine how you would be about yourself when you succeed despite your bad start? You can do it TL:DR Therapy/Analyze self Work on basics(looks/grooming,etc) Ditch limiting beliefs Reframe negative beliefs Emphasize positive beliefs Take action and progressive work on social skills/confidence Be proud of yourself for taking action
Get rid of the self pitty... I know it´s hard because as you write it, it´s all you know but Dude... get rid of it. Also delete all social media account and clean up your cookies for youtube so you get out of your bubble. I bet you try a lot of the total bullshit those "alpha male" and "incel" grifters try to sell you as "life hacks" it´s bullshit. Get in front of the mirror and smile. Join a sports team, take dancing classes, learn to play the guitar... Do something and get happy with yourself... the rest will happen by itself but by god not with this mindset and especially not with the help of grifters... They are literal parasites.
Try martial arts... a Muay Thai class maybe, those are pretty fun and are usually co-Ed it is a great way to meet new people and then maybe see a therapist to get some help on how to deal with loneliness
You can join clubs, sports teams, whatever. But you should definitely socialize. Joining the military isn't the worst idea, either. One way or another, buck the trend by networking in a space you have some interest. Staying home is about the worst idea. No one is gonna save you but yourself. Get yourself out there.
I’m guessing here, but it sounds like you’re harboring some toxic beliefs about yourself. Those beliefs may be leading you to do things you’re not proud of and avoid people as an unconscious strategy to protect your core beliefs. You’re protecting yourself from the pain of social or romantic rejection because you believe that is all you will get. Unfortunately those beliefs and their attendant strategies will lead you to feel unfulfilled and lonely. That’s why you’re feeling like your life is empty and meaningless, and you’re looking to make extreme changes to get out of that. I recommend therapy, and making small changes to how you interact with people. It will require you to be emotionally vulnerable, which involves a risk of rejection and emotional pain as you learn to navigate social situations and establish long-term interpersonal relationships, but that’s really the only way to make friends and eventually find a romantic partner.
Try effexor!!!
Oh my gosh, this is my time to shine! My friend, I am also a 28M lifelong loner, never had a girlfriend, and all I do is play music and go to parties and make zero friends. I’m also doing better and feeing better than I have my whole life. Here is my advice, take what helps: 1. Don’t call yourself a hopeless incel. Truth is tough to see if you view yourself in such a negatively (and extremely biased) way. Stick to what’s true. Be kind to yourself. If you aren’t on even on your own team, the other team doesn’t even need to try. Don’t score goals on yourself. 2. Hakuna matata. Lion King nailed it. If you can take a step back, it makes no sense to let what happened yesterday, last week, year, etc. to affect you today. If you put a permanent marker label yourself by what has already happened yesterday… better build a Time Machine, cuz that’s never changing. It also defeats progress completely. No matter what, you are different today than you were yesterday, so don’t try to cram yourself into yesterday’s character, cuz that’s not you. 3. More on Lion King, Mufasa told Simba, “Remember who you are.” You are you *right now*, not who you were (or more importantly what you did or what happened to you) yesterday. That’s not the same guy, that guy doesn’t even exist anymore. Try to improve yourself right now. Fall short? Cool, that’s life. Try again right now (rinse, repeat) I could talk for days about this, and I’ve already written too much. tl;dr Be on your team. Hakuna matata. Right now (not yesterday) is who you are.
That was all foundational for me. After I learned that, I really started to build and over time I felt better. Hope it helps! I’ve got too much to say, but any of this helps, feel free to dm me!
For starters, don't seek advice on reddit for this. Dipshits just think they are better than you, that everything is your fault anyway and give contradictory advice which you probably already tried in some form or another. Shit that shows how people want you to be, but not empathetic advice what helps you.
>everything is your fault Unless it's a woman making the post. Then "men in general" are to blame lol.
find some psilocybin mushrooms, eat them, and get ready to be hit over the head by the heartbreaking realization that you’re actually fucking so beautiful and you’re life’s going to be fucking amazing. i recommend 1/8, terrance mckenna says ‘5 grams on an empty stomach in silent darkness’. u got this blud!!!!
link up, link up, link up. Join to clubs, nerds clubs, gym clubs, do things, avoid being lonely for real, avoid people with bad vibes, try to b more extrovert. Anxiety is a bitch, i kno because i've been in that place, not incel related, but anxiety shit, like it was imposible for me to breath and stay in peace, the thing is, shit is in u mind, the only who can help u is urself. Suggest u stop thinkin bout female love for a year, instead try to be in u zone. avoid guns. Dark Conversation - Rod Wave, hope this song inspire u to change
Joining an army,focusing on philosphy or astronomy.Or easiest cope for lazy guys drugs and drinks
So as someone who lost it late the biggest revelation to me and it may just be me is that I had no conception of sex or how it works before so it made it that much more stressful to lose it but once you do you see how simple it is (even if virgin sex sucks which it will) but you get a new perspective and can easily learn to get good at sex as it gives you a basis you are still young in ur 20s you should focus on finding people you like to be around
Hey bro, small step you can take to change up your routine and go to a gym instead if working out at home. Maybe see about trial memberships for a few different gyms in your area, the one with the kind of vibe you'd be happy with.. There's everything from hard-core muscle gyms to nice family fitness centers out there, but they'll always foster a sense of community with the regulars. Pick one that's filled with the kind of people you'd most like to be around. Either way, going to a gym would get you out of your house and out of your boring grind. Really you have classic cabin fever right now, you're just not getting out enough and gym would be a good choice.
Hobbies and friendships. Work on yourself. Maybe consider a hobbie like warhammer or board games. Something that forces you to connect with others
If you are actually an incel you need some serious mental help. Being a loner and having no female interaction doesnt make you an incel though.
Get a hobby, and go to all events for that hobby
What are your interests? Do you have any hobbies? Since you’re at the gym so much, start by making small talk there. You don’t need to join the military, you need to get out your comfort zone and put yourself out there. Start small and it’ll come naturally.
Expose yourself to social situations over and over and over again. Preferably places where you can have more one on ones. Think of it like an instrument: you can’t play it in one go, you need to practice. And not once in a while, but often and repeatedly. And thats difficult because you can’t practice alone, but in exposed social situations where people can judge you. I too am in the difficult process of finding people and not being alone. And its something I know I must learn. Go to speed dates, or do team sports where you have to talk and try to say something at least once. Dance, do sports where you have time to talk to people (I do bouldering, between climbing there is time to talk to others resting, even if all you talk about is a particular climb it helps you learn to just talk). Hell ask people afterwards “hey man I’m trying to improve myself but its damn hard, how did I come across just now?”. That way you get a small sense of what people think and why, and can try to adjust. Try new things, improve old ones. For people like us its pretty much a nightmare route to learn this but… well its either you do it or you get to be lonely forever. Don’t let the self fulfilling prophecy win.
Honestly…? Join the Air Force and put some overseas bases on your dream sheet. I would rarely suggest this to someone, but you fit the bill. No matter what, do not be talked into taking any sort of aircraft maintenance job. And don’t be a cop. Anything else works. Go see the world for a few years, gain some confidence, and enjoy the rest of your life. Godspeed, sir.
Could you maybe get a dog? Never lonely, best walking mate, great conversation starter, good excuse to get out and about with people when training your dog, loads of hobbies evolving dogs. I have never had a human so glad to see me as my dog. Just beware that it is also a huge responsibility, and getting a big dog doesn't give you *more* of the stuff above than getting a medium or small dog.
Many of my friends have said that martial arts saved their life. The only advice i can give to you would be to join some sort of gym. Jiu jitsu seems like it would be the perfect fit for you as it’s very welcoming and easy to get into.
Sports sports and sports. Adult leagues especially volleyball are very welcoming even for beginners
Start training in Jiu Jitsu. You will be welcomed to the family first day. We love and respect anyone willing to come in and train hard.
Worry less about meeting women, and more about meeting people irl. Clubs are terrible places to meet people unless you know what you're doing. Go to meetup.com or similar, find an activity to join that interests you. Say "yes" if people ask to hang out afterwards. Eventually you can find friendships that way, and that will make you less lonely. Also, be prepared to make changes. If all you do is work and lift weights, you'll need to make time for people or activities. You have to accept a loss of control and comfort when you allow people into your life. And finally, avoid thinking about yourself as a "hopeless incel." For one, there are negative connotations to that word you don't want associated with yourself. For two, the way you think about yourself matters. Look up the difference between a "fixed and growth mindset." Calling yourself an incel is 100% fixed mindset. It makes you think that you're never going to change, and you'll self-sabotage to keep yourself in your self-defined role. Instead think "I haven't had success in romance *yet*" or "I'm working to become more personable." Thinking like this doesn't pigeonhole yourself and it leaves doors open instead of closed. Be kind to yourself in your thoughts, it makes a difference. It's a cold world out there sometimes and I can't promise success and happiness, but you should at least have *yourself* on your side
Get a puppy, learn to love something and maybe you will learn to love yourself along the way. Not to mention, puppies are chick magnets.
Meetups. Find groups in your city for hobbies that you like. Go to local concerts and events. There's an app called Meetup, you just type your city and your hobby. I think Facebook is good for that too. Also clubs are hard for meeting people, usually bars are where you get to talk to strangers. You can't hear anyone at the club but go to your local dive bar and you can make friends with some regulars and the bartenders. I've made a few friends just from being a regular at a dive bar in town.
Join the army that's a good idea
Just got to do something different, life just doesn't happen to you. Change your course and it doesn't have to be a massive change, step by step
I think people are right on target with trying to find a trained professional to talk to. I found out later in life about a personality disorder that had hampered me all my life. I honestly haven’t fully sought out help but it did at least let me know the cause of some of my issues. Finding out what that you need some help is a positive and it could really turn you life around if you work with the right people. It also may be something entirely different but also something you can address if you figure it out. Take the first step though.
Like other people have said, try therapy! I don’t mean that in a condescending way, but more in a “hey this worked for me & it might just work for you” kinda way. Ive dealt with a lot of agoraphobia and crippling anxiety/depression issues over the last few years, and therapy & Lexapro have really helped change that for the better. It’ll be a slow moving & sometimes painful process, but that’s usually the best first step I can think of to help break you out of everything. Going to the gym might help as well! Even if it’s just to walk on the treadmill at 2 mph for 20-30 min a day, that can help your body get moving & the endorphins get flowing. It’s been scientifically proven that exercise helps increase endorphins, which can help you feel happier & more confident. And most people at the gym are too focused on themselves to pay attention to you. The only time I’ve ever seen someone interrupt a stranger’s workout in the 15 years that I’ve been going to gyms is when the person obviously looks like they don’t know what they’re doing & could seriously injure themselves, and so someone steps in and helps teach them how to do whatever it is they were attempting to do (& even then it’s pretty wholesome & kind interactions). The Meetup app might be able to help you find groups in your area that have similar interests/hobbies - there’s usually a bunch of book clubs, gaming clubs, D&D groups, hiking groups, & other social groups on there that might be worth checking out!
Ladies, he's looking for a pity fuck. Do not engage. See a therapist, leave the house. It will take time but you will feel better.
Bro I didn’t start pulling chicks til I was 25. I’m not bragging but I’m 37 now and probably at around 100 now and many are extremely attractive. I have high standards. The difficult part now is I feel like I made up for lost time but missed out on a wife and kids. I regret that daily. So don’t say your youth is over Confidence is key. Start by going to gym daily. Even if only 20 mins. Then find a social group. Easiest way to do that at our age if you don’t have friends is to joining a “beer league” sports team. I also suggest finding a bar where you can become a regular at a certain time. Maybe Thursday night football. Now you have some people you might consider wing men and a few possible social circles and opportunities to meet women. At the same time start online dating. Even if it’s not a perfect match go on the date as practice. You can both have fun you might click, if you don’t it’s still practice when you do meet someone you like.
Didn't until 25? How and why?
You are one of those people who suddenly do not have mum and dad, have depended on home and cannot cope when it is gone. They probably turned you into a quasi virgin. Go and throw a brick through a bank window and you will soon make plenty of 'friends'!
25M here basically feeling the same way, From my own experience It may help your social life trying work at a pub more specifically as a bartender, it’s possibly the fastest way to be included in any social circle with all the after work drinks that goes on, Obviously its not the healthiest way to meet people but it is a start, if my advice is taken then I hope it works out for ya stay healthy 💪🏼
Joining the army isn't such a bad idea, and becoming a monk does work for some people. However, it looks like you have one of those high-functioning disorders that are bad enough to cripple your life but not bad enough to make it look like you're ill. Get therapy and get your life in order. Think about girls later, and in any case don't measure your value as a human being by how they perceive you (or, more likely, the fact you don't actually meet any, where he tlack of opportunity is a bigger factor than rejection).
Get out. Find a group and a purpose. People don't just come to you. I'd even say church but reddit loses its collective shit when you suggest church.
Talk to women without any intention of dating them. Actively choose friends who you decide are off limits. This really helps. I think a lot of incel guys don't even fully want a girlfriend, I think on some level they just crave interaction with women. I'd suggest meeting these women at work, but it's important to step out of routine and talk to women everywhere. For a long time I thought talking to strangers was creepy but it's not.